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Hedge Fund Titan Steinhardt Says He Would Sell GM Stock "As Quickly As I Can"
On one hand you have Phil Lebeau. On the other you have legendary hedge fund investor Mike Steinhardt. When asked whether he would sell a hypothetical allocation of GM stock, Steinhardt's response is about as priceless as it gets: "As quickly as I can. I don't think one should be a long-term holder in government securities, particularly government equity securities." q.e.d.
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Awesome, the truth/common sense is so refreshing.
Excellent info re converts by Larry McDonald as always... and classic Steinhardt at the end of the clip. Simple, concise... Win.
CNBC ran this segment a few days ago about how the retail investors cant get into the GM deal while institutional investors got allotted with most of the GM IPO. Then they said that they will expand the IPO so that other investors can participate with CNBC hyping the deal saying that its oversubscribed and that the price range has been increased. The whole reason for this is that there really is no demand from the institutions OR that the institutions plan to dump this POS (like Steinhardt mentioned) the second it starts trading and they need the retail guys to become the bagholders. Typical Wall Street games at work here.
The old "Take Away"
No you cant have any x 100.
Oh, wait we do have here some for you.
Do you still want it?
And the pigs eat the shit!
Yes, this is good stuff. I SWEAR I WILL NEVER BUY A GM PRODUCT
However, on a much more important note, Pladizow has seemingly accomplished what I had thought practically impossible. (S)He has upgraded his/her avatar. Applause.
If by "Upgrade" you simply mean vertically higher on the female anatomy, then I agree with you.
I thought those were slingshots... ;)
I was opting for trebuchets.
No matter which way you look at them (preferably up close, with slobbering!), you could put your eyes out wit those! :>D
DS,
The primary market always leads the secondary (stock exchanges) market.
As for the institutional demand, ive spoken with a buy-side friend who said his co has about $20MM allotted for the bonds. They can of course hedge these, as Larry mentioned on the show, by shorting the shares.
So, the demand i'd say is there, but who knows for how long.. Thats why Steinhardts AM fund has some dough it in as well. Youd be a fool not to take a few points from the offering.
If you want a Government owned stock buy Aig, Fre, Fnm. They are a lot cheeper.
Is this the same Larry McDonald who used to play for the Leafs?
Haha. No, not him:)
That was Lanny.
This could be the most epic pump & dump ever.
Pump, yes
Dump, on us. We're going to be the buyers of a failed IPO.
One way or another it will work.
Its about the Volt, a luxury Prius!
I have to agree about GM being a terrible stock to buy. Actually it would BENEFIT our business if GM is able to come back, kicking butt, as there are few GM cars in Peru and we sell many of their bearings.
There is so much over-capacity in the auto production that I would buy NONE of them except for maybe Hyundai (the stocks).
I would love for GM to pull their head out of their ass, but they refuse to sell anything small/mid and affordable to the average American, due to the legacy and union overhead, I guess.
Ford has been on this, while Chevy goes big. Now a $40 K Mega prius. Fix your model or your done GM.
Same old song and dance.
I drive a 3/4 ton Silverado. I have been puzzled by GM's model for years. My wife doesn't like driving a tank!
They got burned the last time they went small. They were confused by thinking economy meant chintzy. Japanese ate their lunch. Have been ever since.
It will be interesting to see how many failures to deliver it takes to keep the price propped up.
i'm trying to find out what happened to all of that equity in east german and soviet automakers. that might give us a clue as to what will come of the amerikan government automakers.
Or the Yugo. Skoda still exists as does Lada.
Good to know, but what happened to Tinkywinky?
Was that the gay one?
Weren't they all??
The target audience (children under 4!) wouldn't know or care about such things. :>D
Why stop there? Why not sell every stock as quickly as you can?
Sorry Steinhard. 1000s of HFT computers will beat you to sell this POS once Goldman gets out of their MOTHER OF ALL PUMP AND DUMPS of course.
And, todays headlines from AP states that they are raising the IPO price due to invester demand. AAAAAHHHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
What if you threw an IPO and nobody bought? Chrylser actually builds vehicles the wife and I bought: Jeep grand Cherokee and Dodge Dakota pickup (1990).
Absolutely. Can their be anything worse than holding government equity paper at a time governments are going to be unable to service their obligations, even while they continue to buoy banks. Look at Ireland. Would you buy their Waterford stock? Oh, you can't.
that was hysterical...i was watching....really solid, solid work pumping their brains out for the IPO, even projecting a fast three buck gain on the open to get all the pigeons in and holding fast....
and Steinhardt nukes it. glorious.
You could just see them all deflate like the auto-pilot in Airplane. And here they were expecting Steinhardt to bend down and blow as well and then ... ssssssssssssssss
Thank you for today's laugh.
You can always tell when the yammering heads hear something they don't like because for one brief second they actually stop yammering as they have a little temper tantrum in their head that their guest didn't say what they wanted them to.
hahaha, i loved that too. the other guys are talking about all these different metrics to measure the potential success and then Steinhardt says one sentence only and everyone shuts up. classic.
F looks like its about to get slammed too.
The churn on the GM IPO is going to be epic. Record breaking. Nobody is going to hold that crap. The HFT algos are simply going to go ape-shit with it. My guess is it will rise like a Saturn V rocket for the first few days with a billion shares traded -- the same shares over and over -- and then it will crater.
Yup, probably a few days of bliss, maybe a week, to catch the weak retail shorts after ex-3 for shorting expires.
Cougar_w
I'm very impressed with your creative writing skills my friendly feline. You mentioned you're working on a chapter about Diamond taking down a bank. Are you thinking of publishing or are you just playing with the catnip?
Either way, it would help to get some exposure and I suspect the bank robbery story would fit in nicely here on ZH. I could guest host your piece. The one you showed me from yesterday was brilliant. Please post that link again for the crowd to savior.
You are too kind.
Yes Fortran and Diamond will shortly knock over a bank. It's actually kinda funny. And a "deserving person" will be (ever so slightly) set on fire, so that's pretty cool.
The story installment from yesterday:
http://madscienceunlimited.com/fiction/actsOfCharity.html
I like Diamond a lot, she's fun to write for, but she sometimes scares the crap out of me.
It's often scary channeling the inner feline when we've been taught all our lives to repress it. With the human animal, the inner female is the dominant position regardless of whether we recognize it or not. I suspect this is the reason we males have been repressing our females for thousands of years. We must destroy that which is closest to us, beginning within if we are to continue to deny what we are. This is the true human Achilles Heel.
It's always interesting to see how males like to destroy what the females have created, meaning life itself, be it human or nature. I can't help but be deeply saddened as I watch how our females have grown in social influence while being conditioned to reject their female side and join the boys club. The only thing worse than a male repressing his inner female is the female repressing her inner female. This turning point is where humans have recently gone full retard.
I think that most of that behavior is age dependent.
I would be interested in hearing you expand on your thought. But I've found that insanity isn't age dependent. Our inner sociopath just mellows a bit with age.
Humans are driven by hormone dependent decision systems.
And those hormone levels change with age; esp. the testosterone/ estrogen ratios. As males age the testosterone levels drop thereby increasing the ratio of estrogen. After menopause the opposite happens in women when their estrogen levels drop, which is why estrogen replacement therapy is so popular in women.
The end result of these hormone changes is a change in behavior. Younger males with higher testosterone levels are much more aggressive than older males or females. Testosterone gives them the confidence to take risks… some they shouldn’t take. But without people taking those risks we’d still be Neolithic. Obviously hormone ratios can have wide variations in the same gender. Some males have much less testosterone and some females much more than normal.
It's much easier to acknowledge your inner female when your testosterone levels taper down to more manageable levels.
Interestingly enough all humans are born female. It's the release of testosterone by the mother during fetal development that causes the male to drop his ovaries.
This might make interesting reading. The genders are wired differently.
http://www.amazon.com/Brain-Sex-Difference-Between-Women/dp/0385311834
There is no doubt the sexes are wired differently. And I was very aware of the hormone levels. When I tell people that all fetuses start as females, most women are aware of this and most males are almost insulted when they are told for the first time.
Just goes to substantiate my basic premise, that males are mostly in denial of their female side and go to great pains to repress it. Right down to male posturing and excessive/aggressive shows in order to mark their territory and prove they are all male.
We don't ALL start as females! Males have an X and a Y chromosome...they're males from the first split of the fertilized egg/cell. We LOOK female because that's how we develop...those aren't OVARIES ready to drop in males...they're BALLS! They just developed where the ovaries develop. It's easier to start with 1 basic form and modify it later.
Not trying to be a prick...just setting the record straight!
I think you've been reading too much BS. Read this to reset the organ;
http://web.maths.unsw.edu.au/~jim/women.html
If you really want to see the unregulated, unrepressed woman...come to NZ. There's plenty of them, please take as many with you as you can.
It needn't even be a theory. Occam's Razor is very much in play here; the obvious point to start from is simply the proposition that men and women are of equal intelligence, there being no obvious reason to assume otherwise. The same applies to people of color, people of different regions, the people's of other historical eras, and people of difference occupations. There being no obvious reason to assume otherwise. That right there is the key.
I think that if I could hazard a generalization, then it would be that people who think of themselves as intelligent think a lot about intelligence. And people who don't worry about such relative things don't dwell on the topic at all. But doing so or not is itself not an indication of intelligence as much as it is ego. And there is nothing wrong with that either, it's just how people are. It is always useful to understand how people are.
Intelligence itself is actually a red herring. I've yet to see a convincing argument that someone has uncovered the one, true measure of intelligence. And I've heard quite a few arguments. Intelligence as a human quality is elusive, mercurial and highly subjective. That's not even my personal opinion, that is simply how intelligence is, and people possessing any significant amount of life-experience will tend to agree and then laugh and move on.
That's just how it is. You don't have to be a genius to get to that point of acceptance. Though I suppose I'd have to admit, it helps.
Some groups sure as hell do a lot better than others...there's got to be SOMETHING different about them...right? Personally, I think there are HUGE differences between men and women and the races...but that's just real world experience talking...nothing official.
So your only measure of males and females is intelligence? LOL! Did you know that knuckle dragging is tough on the knuckles?
I never once used the term intelligence nor did I infer it in any way, shape or form? There are many different ways to see the world and intelligence is often the least important of them.
Guess you don't have enough Intelligence to be accepting of everyone as they are, including the terminally stupid! A sage always learns more from the fool than the fool learns from the sage.
"The only thing worse than a male repressing his inner female is the female repressing her inner female"
Too accurate! The pain, frustration, and confusion I see exhibited by the ladies is mostly caused by this very condition.
On 'a nuther' note (as I heard a newscaster say last night), I do believe that female creativity stops and starts largely at at the birthing process. This is not a value judgement, just an observation. Most women's minds are so turbulent, so active, so unceasing (like an ape constantly jumping around a cage), that the silence that is needed for creativity in any musical, literary, business, religious, seduction, endeavor, etc just cannot materialize. The lack of female creation throughout the ages is not due to suppression, its due to nature and a wonderful preoccupation with vanity. I respect this 'vanity' by the way...as it's not a negative in any sense (unless unbalanced).
A woman is actually the simplest, least complex of the sexes. Once a man understands this, the world becomes so much brighter.
Men need to understand that it is much more difficult for a woman to ever be in the here and now than a man.
Hey women, remember, a man is not a woman who happens to have a schnitzel attached.
Men; a life changing easy clue... women react to what they hear stronger than what you react to with what you see. Learn it, live it, navigate it with your silver tongue and you'll make the world a happier place for all parts of your body.
GM will channel the Citicorp HFT bread and butter microcentsual feeding station.
Larry Mcdonald's take roughly 4:21 into the video where it states "IPO SHOULD POP 3$ AT OPENING" interesting take.
Epic.
New phrase of the day. Get used to it because there more coming where this came from.
"government equity securities"
Hmm, now we have "GES's" otherwise know as guesses!! What we need is a lottery on when it will break below 10.
Whisperin
I have no desire to get used to it. Why should I?
Too Government To Fail. Get your Soc. Sec. payment in a Brand-New Car!!!!
What would you expect from a man whose son married mobster moll maria bartilormo
Steinhardt, not Steinberg..........geez.
same crap different daughter-in-law
The sound of Jono barfing it up...
Wow, did you see the look the guy (McDonald?) pumping the stock gave to Steinhardt?
This is the very same Larry Mcdonald who was telling us back in late August that the Shadow Banking industry needed to be saved at all costs... it was the "key" to moving the economy forward again. He's another Lehman alum....
That was Great! Good advice. How can you believe sales news coming out of GM with the Feds grimy hands in it.
Fun times scheduled for the ultracreative and non-compliant.
http://www.networkworld.com/community/blog/people-who-resist-authority-s...
It is article titles like this one that just increases my love for zerohedge.
I <3 Truth.
and i'd gladly take the other side of that trade. hey, look....A MARKET! (Must be a conspriracy or something...
I would love to see how many free GM products or bank acct bumps Phil "asshat" Lebeau has.
Government equity securities, gotta love that. Lol!
KingWorldNews James Turk - $400 Silver by 2013 to 2015 http://bit.ly/bYWHdd 5 minutes ago via web
$400 silver by next summer, '11.
But these same genius' will gladly outsource jobs and industry to there favorite step-child ......China.
Looks like Ford is still pretty immune to the currency and bond gyrations today.
Sure has been a much more stable investment than those "resource" and "anti-dollar" stocks constantly touted by the perma-gloomers.
So whats that chart display supposed to insinuate, that you bought Ford at $8 I guess?
BTW, Ford never took a govt bailout, so I have no idea what your point is supposed to be.
It wants you to know that you can't post a picture and it can.
IT... too funny
+100
Robo, thank you for continuing to put the writing on the wall so effortlessly. It is curiously entertaining to see the monie makers and market manipulators trying to "get theirs" one last time.
Overextended relative to the 200 EMA and an engulfing candle today...bad call Robo.
Easily simplified... You go "retail" and "dollar", I'll go "resource" and "anti-dollar" and we'll re-visit and compare your so called "stability" in 2014 when green shoots and recovery are "assured" by the perma-crocus... Agreed?
GM worst IPO ever, within days I hope it finds its true value somewhere near zero. Penny stock at best.
What, you don't feel the electricity of $42,000 Volt, the everyday plug-in car for everyone who owes $400,000 plus usury to the Fed and just isn't in hock deep enough?
http://www.infrastructurist.com/2010/11/16/five-reasons-electric-cars-wo...
After all, The Federal Reserve is committed to both parts of its dual mandate and will take all measures to keep inflation low and stable as well as promote growth in employment
http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2010/11/15/open-letter-to-ben-bernanke/
You're doing a heckava job Benny and Timmy:
1980 methodology inflation 8% and defacto unemployment 30.5%
http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/inflation-charts
http://cwcs.ysu.edu/resources/cwcs-projects/defacto
The biggest problem with the volt is the cost to replace the battery. They do lose the ability to charge over time just like those little 9volts. So, at 50 thousand miles you need a new battery for about $10,000.
The biggest problem with a Volt is its electric. After everyones home has been foreclosed on, the apartment landlord gets a little pissed with that 2 gauge electric cord going out to the parking lot.
The other guy had the smile of shock!! Beautiful
ZH Website Word Search Results:
1) Bitchez - 2,304,588
2) Bansta - 1,873,642
3) Gold - 1,309,441
4) Silver - 1,309,441
5) Titan - 743,955
and bringing up the rear...
6) Thong - 624,771
arseworms?
He's pulling the Anti-Tepper and buying what he is encouraging everyone else to sell!
LOL. He wouldn't need to be doing TV to shake a lot of G-Puke loose!
...i like that q.e.d. at the end (pun intended)...haven't seen that in a very long time...takes me back to me 'ol college days...(tips hat).
"And it's hedge fund legend Mike Steinhardt and the US Treasury galloping furiously around the final turn, they're neck and neck as they race for the GM-position exit...who will be the first to unload their stake on the Future GM Bagholders of America??"
but cnbc has been touting this for weeks and that us little guys may not be able to get in on this epic ipo.
The volt will be the biggest failure since lehman unless the bond market goes first
You know when they were trying to pawn it off on the Retail Investors it was a DOG. CNBC was trying to get Retail Investors to take a lot of the Offering. That way they could short it into oblivion. Now they have to try and create Retail investor demand to dump their allotment on, so they do not bear the risk.
The Government still owns 35%, who want to invest in a Government Company anyway? If you do, why not buy Aig, FRE, FNM. Look where their stock is.
Hillarious. I haven't seen CNBC cut to commercial that fast since Maria Bartiromo's bra came unhooked.
Mandy is here. ( I am on a Tivo 2 hour delay) and if her bra came unhooked the only person upset would be erin burnett.
When did that happen, maybe they have it on youtube somewhere. That must have been funny as hell when it happened. Also your correct, they cut to commercial because this man told the truth and Faber was trying to show him up but it didn't work because this guy isn't wrong (that comment about 1927 was funny). They are trying to hype this stock up in order to have it shoot to the stratosphere and then the people holding shares will sell into the retail market a dog stock. The guy was to nice to say what he wanted to say, but essentially this company stock isn't worth the paper it's printed on since the same issues they had before the bankruptcy (which was controlled by the whitehouse and the judges) is still there.
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/banking_...
Is that the same Phil LeBlewit who insisted for six months prior to the GM bankruptcy that GM would never declare bankruptcy? Yeah, I thought so.
That dude should be covering the horse and buggy beat.
Wet blanket bitch slap. Throws the wet blanket on government motors - the guy saying a $2 pop looks back at him like a $0.50 whore and his face say ..... what do ya mean you're not going to pay...priceless
As long as they did "not leave money on the table." The history books and my bank account will be fine.
The only reason I am glad I spent money on college was so that I could pass calculus, at the same the I-Bankers learned psychology and called me a nerd.
ZH-er's should have a betting pool to see which one will sink faster, CA's bonds or GM's stock.
I have owned GM cars for my entire life and currently own one. But, since the Government Forcefully Bankrupted the Company and gave it to the Unions I vow to never own another GM vehicle again.
GM IS A BUY! No way this thing rolls over out of the gates. I plan to make $2 on a trade and off to the pawn shop I go.
Another jew.
wow , could they have cut away from Steinhart ANY faster after his comment ? ! ? ! won't see him on HeeHaw anytime soon again ! ! !
Steinhardt wasn't going along with the program...
But there is no retail investor!
I want a Volt so bad that I'm naked on top of my table dancing to Freakazoid with a pair of battery cables connected to my nipples.
Did I mention I get a bad case of Priapus when I drive my Prius?
the man is just talking his book.
Love how GM and Delphi IPOs come-in on the Coat Tails of a Fed triggered Bubble.
Suppose I need to add 'Market Maker/Manipulator' to the Fed's long list of duties.
Hell, might as well give the Fed Foreign Policy too...Oops, they already do that too.
GM shares will be flipped faster than meat patties at Beach-side Burger stall. Not too many long-term share owners, just suckers.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aF2FlgNCR5jg&refer=home
I remember this guy being interviewed..confident as ever goes "my price target is zero". Almost 2 years ago to the day....
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Who would buy GM bonds when they know the government can take away your legal rights (and money) at any time?
O ya they are convertible into GM stock. Which is worth what?
The whole deal is going to zero as soon as the big boys unload.