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Here Come Higher Taxes: Goldman On Imminent Tax Increases

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Thu, 03/25/2010 - 15:29 | 275957 Nihilarian
Nihilarian's picture

Let's call it by what it is: Economic Tranquilizer.

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 15:33 | 275961 Vacca
Vacca's picture

Expect to see more businesses moving their operations overseas as a result and more individuals taking as much as they can offshore. Cant help but think that the economy will just get worse as tax rates go up.

This is where the government might finally understand how allowing companies to offshore more and more middle class jobs has not only decimated the ability of the middle class to consume, but also to pay taxes.

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 16:13 | 276017 Mako
Mako's picture

All you need is one State to cancel their agreements (repeal Acts) with the Federal government and the rush will be on to that State.  

I have no idea what the State Attorney Generals are so upset about.   Cancel the agreements and be done with it.  The tax bills are going to have to keep going up otherwise, until the States are BKd.

The Federal government is in charge of running State programs, that is how their reach within the State.... it's done under State law.   If you don't believe me, go read your State code.  

 

 

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 15:34 | 275966 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

It's either higher taxes, or default. Could be both I suppose. But by promising to raise taxes "someday" you can continue to reel in foreign investors to buy bonds. So they have no choice but to say they are going to raise taxes "someday" even if actually doing so would fatally poison the economy.

In an informal race you claim you are not really racing in the hope that the other guy might believe you and slow up. Applies in a race to the bottom, too. It all comes down in the end to subterfuge and information warfare.

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 16:04 | 276010 knukles
knukles's picture

Both!

You can bet your bottom quintile taxed dollar that for all the extra blood squeezed from the American Taxpayer, there'll be absolutely NO corresponding curtailment of expenditures.

Anybody wanna bet the under on all the business and wealth that's gonna make its way to more friendly tax, regulatiory and legal (read violation of secured debt holder's rights a la GM and Chrysler) environments? 
Not to mention the continued bastardization of the free-enterprise system by the Financial-Congressional Complex.

Once the money starts to disappear, that'll be the final straw along with diminishing rights, for once the do-ray-me is gone, no amount of bread and circuses gonna keep the animal spirits satisfied.

Let alone.....
Our tax money now going to bail out Greece via the IMF?  Shoot the Euro, solidify the dollar's waning preeminence. 

This is getting serious, folks.  Serious.

Time to start reconsidering traditional risk premia relationships.

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 20:55 | 276355 twotraps
twotraps's picture

that is exactly right....no curtailment of expenditures.

 

Like a restaurant that has declining business...they keep raising prices to make up for all the shortfall.  Seems like a good plan. 

 

Pathetic

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 22:50 | 276458 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

it truly sucks since counties do go the extra mile and cut their budgets (at least mine is) but if we are going to just steamrolled by all this fed spending..  why the fuck shouldn't we all just go BK first before the country does?

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 16:06 | 276014 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Agreed. When you've got nothing left to sell but still are dependent upon the income, you resort to lying, cheating and stealing, those wonderful puritanical values we heard so much about from politicans over the last 20 (50? 100?) or so years.

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 17:59 | 276179 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Agree with all above.

Like I am going to invest in anything now.  From here out, it is wealth preservation for me.  Invest in anything, get taxed more.  Hire anyone, wow, that's taking a chance!  With the crooks in charge now...

As my taxes go up, the only thing I can see to do is to spend less.  Spending less has a bonus that a higher income does not: no taxes on unspent money!  Not much fun spending less though.

Buying, holding and eventually quietly giving away GOLD is another good alternative for longer term thinkers.

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 15:38 | 275969 Rick64
Rick64's picture

This is inevitable, so even if the economy was to recover and inflation sets in the taxpayer will still be in a recession.

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 16:12 | 276031 A Man without Q...
A Man without Qualities's picture

+101

 

Taxpayer is going to get squeezed with both higher taxes and yields that are going to be below true inflation.  For the average citizen, they are about to get even more poor over the next few years.

But never mind, just buy stocks and pray the PPT will watch your back and make you rich...

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 15:40 | 275972 schoolsout
schoolsout's picture

well....what can one say?

 

It's like you're in a horse race riding a fukcing cow.

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 15:42 | 275974 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

These last few years, we learned 7 important lessons:

1.   YES, because we can

2.  YOU are part of this democrazy

3.  GIVE, and you will receive

4. MONEY, doesn't make you happy

5.    TO much of anything isn't good

6.    US, land of the brave

 

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 15:46 | 275979 schoolsout
schoolsout's picture

Am I not seeing the 7th for a reason?

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 15:51 | 275985 Nihilarian
Nihilarian's picture

7. Chump change is the cost of these government entitlements and bailouts.

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 18:09 | 276188 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

7. Whenever a Goldmanite speaks, look for the cash motive.

or

7. Whenever a Goldmanite speaks, it is a trail balloon for the government.

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 15:58 | 275987 Mako
Mako's picture

The only way this stops is if you get your State to cancel all the Federal program agreements.   The States will be going belly up and the Federal government will come in to restructure otherwise.  

Unless you take your State capital buildings back you can expect the bills to get bigger and bigger, until (insert your State here) goes belly up.  Texas is already expecting a $20 billion bill coming it's way, they have no idea, it's not going to stop.  

Restructuring of your State governments is coming up if they don't start canceling the Acts that allow the Federal government to reach into the State.   You have been lied to by your State government, they setup the agreements then blame DC for the problems.   The problem is in your State's capital dome.

http://worlddarkestdays.blogspot.com/

 

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 15:52 | 275988 bugs_
bugs_'s picture

Could Goldman be right this time?

 

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 15:54 | 275990 GlassHammer
GlassHammer's picture

They are doing God's work so I can't see how they are wrong.  :)

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 16:15 | 276034 VegasBD
VegasBD's picture

Except in the FX markets. Of course, God's never been good with money, he is all powerful but still needs mortals to fund his franchises everywhere. heheheh

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 20:01 | 276314 Attitude_Check
Attitude_Check's picture

"Why does GOD need a STARSHIP?"

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 15:53 | 275989 Joe Sixpack
Joe Sixpack's picture

"Here Come Higher Taxes: Goldman On Imminent Tax Increases"

 

Translation: Fed, we need more bailouts. Squeeze the slaves some more.

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 18:11 | 276193 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

+1

And we Goldmanites will announce it so Bennie and Timmay don't have to...

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 16:05 | 276012 docj
docj's picture

Dang, didn't see that coming. < /sarc >

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 16:11 | 276028 Shameful
Shameful's picture

This is downright comical.  Hell why not.  When you have already blown out the economy and are consolidating it under the state why not squeeze the people.  Clearly we are to stupid and lazy to resist.  Where is zombie Thomas Jefferson when you need him?!?!?

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 16:34 | 276061 crosey
crosey's picture

If you look at him with one eye closed....he could be Jefferson.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfkHkdu5IEI

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 16:42 | 276066 Vulgus Porkulus
Vulgus Porkulus's picture

Actually, the Trillion + bank bailout was the first thing to clue me in to higher future taxes, but I guess GS was busy during that one.  Nice to see they woke up and noticed entitlement spending.

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 16:48 | 276077 Shameful
Shameful's picture

They might have missed that one for their projections...after all whats a few trillion dollars between friends?

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 16:42 | 276069 the grateful un...
the grateful unemployed's picture

i still don't see how those tax increases are going to close the deficit? the problem being that 20% of the people now have 80% of the money, and you increase their rate of taxation what, a few percent? the system works a lot better when you raise taxes incrementally on a lot of people, (aka the former middle class)

concerning VAT, on top of the already 10% my local constabulary already charges? I'd like to see that

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 16:51 | 276084 Gordon_Gekko
Gordon_Gekko's picture

The intent never was or will be ever to close the deficit, but to rob and pillage the populace as much as they can. CONgress/US Govt. doesn't give two shits about the deficit.

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 16:49 | 276083 Gordon_Gekko
Gordon_Gekko's picture

Let's just call it what it is: SLAVERY. I see people going to cash economy/black markets (free markets is really what they are) - not out of choice (most sheeple don't have enough brains to even contemplate such a thing) but out of necessity.

TAXES = SLAVERY

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 16:55 | 276090 Rick64
Rick64's picture

They are unconstitutional and one of the biggest scams they have pulled on the U.S. citizen. Check out all the former IRS agents that say that there is no law supporting income tax on an individual. Don't take my word for it, research it.

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 22:10 | 276431 Neophiliac
Neophiliac's picture

Wow. Just WOW. Glenn Beck much?

16th Amendment reads:

"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 23:06 | 276470 Rick64
Rick64's picture

I don't watch Glenn Beck. He is an entertainer. The 16th amendment was never ratified by 3/4 of the states as required by law.  Some of the states ratified it against provisions in their state constitutions . Besides not being ratified it is against the constitution itself. A lot of people mistake IRS code and policy as law but it isn't. I would like to hear any argument on this.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 11:18 | 276906 John Self
John Self's picture

Just for clarification, you mean to say that the Internal Revenue Code is "against the constitution itself," right?  Because if you were saying that the 16th amendment were against the constitution -- well, that's the point of a constitutional amendment.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 14:57 | 277322 Rick64
Rick64's picture

I don't think amendments are supposed to contradict the constitution just modify it. There could be a debate on this either way, but more to the point is that the 16th amendment wasn't ratified by a 3/4 vote. Later some states were coerced into ratifying it against their state laws which in many cases required it to be debated in their legislatures this would null their ratification of it.

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 16:59 | 276097 Shameful
Shameful's picture

There is a reason why the IRS is arming up (yeah they need shotguns...) and they are trying to kill cash transactions.  Wait till they try to phase out cash, that will be "fun".

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 18:04 | 276183 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

When those "fun" days come (no cash), I will be comforted by my gold and my guns.  I suspect millions more of us will be comforted by same.

Yeah, come and get it and see what happens.  Fun indeed.

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 18:23 | 276211 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Well the issue we will have is Uncle Sugar will frown on transactions outside of his grid.  Though that's where the guns come in.  Hope it will be millions that are prepared but I suspect the number is far less.

If you don't mind me asking, what keeps you here?  Reading sounds like you do business here but why not bail out and go to Peru for example?  As a young man with few assets I'm eyeing the door, and I assume if I had wealth that Uncle Sugar wanted to steal I would be eyeing the door even more.

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 20:14 | 276329 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Re staying vs. going, my wife (Peruvian) and I talk about that from time to time.  Our family business is in Peru, we go twice a year.  We are in our mid 50s.

USA: More and better bookstores, bit less crime, air conditioning, better (for now) legal code, right-wing talk radio, no European visa hassles for my wife since she became a citizen here.

Peru: CHEAP!  Food is good.  Some routine things are hard to get done there though.  The corruption is more blatant, and you cannot get legal redress if you are wronged (eg, the cops won't bust-up that ring of counterfeiters making fake Chinese bearings that pass as our Korean).

.....

A suggestion!  Take some of those few assets and visit another country or two.  Read up on them first.  Try to stay at least a month so that you more or less know how things work (perhaps a "between jobs kind of thing").  Also, before you bail, it is important to note that speaking the local language is a BIG help.

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 20:27 | 276339 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Awesome, thanks for the reply.

My plan right now is to save and I'm taking a trip this summer to look at places with my folks for their possible retirement.  My dad is leaning towards staying here or South America and my mom is wanting to see Asia. 

I get a insane amount of vacation so I'm going to try to set up a couple 2-3 weeks trips this year.  Agree on the languages but have not picked a place yet, so working on trying to learn Mandarin in case I pick China or Taiwan.  On the plus side I have an in demand skill-set so that does open some doors.  Seems like most of the places I'm interested in going to would let me in.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 00:22 | 276547 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Well, your plan looks pretty good re checking out some destinations.  Parts of South America (also Costa Rica & Panama) are pretty nice places all things considered.  Casey has a ranch project in NW Argentina that looks good, at least on paper.  Their capital Buenos Aires seemed like a pretty decent place (in the good parts of town only). Uruguay might be worth a look.

Asia I know much less about, having only been to Japan and China just once MANY years ago.  Someone else a few days ago said here at ZH said that Asia can be nice, but you will never really fit in with the locals (with friendliness you CAN fit in in places like Peru).  Hard for me to say.  And Chinese is hard!  Singapore maybe?  English spoken, pretty international oriented, and they crack down on the criminal scum.

You said you have a good skill set.  I think that indeed would be another plus should you choose to leave.

Good luck!  Keep posting!

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 01:17 | 276580 Shameful
Shameful's picture

I'm a little leery of Panama because so many American expats on a fixed income.  Rapidly they will not be welcome, pretty sure those retires are not hedged against the dollar.  If they get wiped out, I got to think Americas might not be as welcome. In SA I was looking mainly at Chile and Uruguay.  They looked like the best shot at stability and economic growth. 

One of my dad's friends works for the UN (amazing the people you meet in a pool hall) and has spent a lot of time in Asia.  Had a few conversations with him. Gave me a few pieces of advice, it's true they will never accept me as one of them.  Though he said it never hurt him working in Asia, and spent a long time in Japan before getting hooked up with the UN.  His main advice is, respect their culture, don't speak ill of anyone (particularly their gov) and do not get involved in their internal affairs.  Basically keep my head down and they will treat me alright.

He liked Singapore a lot and it's on my list of places I'm looking at, love the fact they speak English and there is work there.  If I end up going to Asia this summer I will be stopping in Singapore to at least check it out.  My dad's friend said he could also hook me up with a few people he knows on that side of the world if I do end up that way.  And yes learning Mandarin is the most difficult thing I have ever studied.  People who have been honest with me tell me that it will be YEARS before I'm any good at it unless I'm completely submerged in it and even then it will take a long time.

For a blue collar kid I have a lot of educational depth, including get an advanced degree right now.  Also I lucked out that I found work in software development, and like doing it.  From what I can see there is a worldwide shortage of skilled programmers.  Sure there is a lot of guys from India, but not to be mean most of the work I have seen from there is simply terrible.  America still has the best programmers in the world.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 02:00 | 276600 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Well, good luck amigo!  It looks like you are doing your homework.  Very good.  If you are better than India's wannabe programmers, then that is an added plus.

But, don't eliminate the USA too quickly!  After every trip of 3 weeks overseas, I am ALWAYS glad to be back home, what with English, familiar food, my extended family, etc.  Of course I am 54 yrs. old.

Go have fun and education checking those places out!  Take your time...  There is a whole world to choose from.

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 18:06 | 276186 Gwynplaine (not verified)
Gwynplaine's picture

Shameful, haven't you noticed the condition of paper money recently?  You can't even get new, crisp bills from the bank. (Oh, except for dollar bills).  The condition of 50s, 20s, and 10s is atrocious.  This stuff should have been burned and reprinted.

The question is: why hasn't it been reprinted?

My guess is that by 2020 cash will be a thing of the past.  I remember reading somewhere that cash transactions of over 2 or 3 thousand euros are no longer considered legal in Greece.  Ireland is also looking to phase out cash.   How else do you think they can curb the inevitable tidal wave of tax evasion?

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 18:21 | 276206 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Have to agree.  Though not sure on 2020. Could happen sooner with a currency crisis.  After all if the dollar explodes they will need new money, and would be a great time to phase in all digital money.  I have a small supply of cash and it's not in the best shape.  The new 5's I got last night look like they have already taken a beating.

Cash is anathema to the taxing and control grid.  Once they can move to digital money they will remove the ability to evade taxes with under the counter transactions (baring direct barter).  As a side bennie for the master class pure digital money will make devaluing a snap.  A little work with a 10 key pad and add endless liquidity.  And if the numbers get to big just kick a digit off every one's account, easy as a key stroke.

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 18:26 | 276215 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

" they are trying to kill cash transactions"

A Fed VAT would go along way to steering into a no cash debit/credit only system.

Once the total sales tax between city, county, state and Fed become prohibitive... then that will increase the incentive for higher black market evasion of oppressive sales tax rates.

The sheeple will reduce demand for corporate crap, start buying food local and repair and recycle goods instead of more Walmart and Amazon.

Gold, Silver Blanks and Local Scrip

Watch things like silver blanks to start circulating amongst the sheeple.

The Feds can't stop the underground economy of 50 million people selling and consuming small amounts of pot. They can't quash VAT avoidance tranactions either. The EU has tried and failed.

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 20:17 | 276332 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+1

Peru has a kind of VAT.  Lots of people finds ways around it.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 00:57 | 276567 Yardfarmer
Thu, 03/25/2010 - 17:49 | 276163 divide_by_zero
divide_by_zero's picture

I remember back in the 70s before the Reagan tax cuts much of the economy was based on bartering(organized barter clubs etc to organize services/goods to be traded), it got so bad the IRS was trying to tax it as soon as people started using barter "credits", too much like money. With the move back towards confiscatory tax rates, the economy will go back to that again, tax receipts will plummet. It'll likely be easier to organize with the internet now, maybe even an app for that.

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