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Here Come The Witchhunts: France Notes Six US/UK "Greek Debt Speculators" Have Been "Singled Out"
For anyone who thought that Greece's double digit budget deficit as % of GDP (or is that triple digit? We don't know - remember all the numbers are false) was the actual cause for the need to bailout Greece, you are about to get a rude awakening: see, it was all the fault of six speculative US and UK hedge funds. Dow Jones reports that French Finance Minister Christine Lagarade has said that "six financial institutions have been singled out for speculating on Greek debt during the ongoing crisis."
In a hearing with the Finance Commission at the French National Assembly, which was closed to the press, Lagarde told French lawmakers that the six institutions are all anglo-saxon, a word French politicians and media use to designate U.S. and U.K.-based companies.
Heaven forbid such a thing as a somewhat efficient market exists, and Greek yields were merely an indication of the country's otherwise perfectly default status. Nah, surely it is all just speculation.
Oh, and here comes the really funny part:
Lagarde also said that the French government is in favor of giving the International Monetary Fund an advisory role to solve the Greek crisis, but that its help won't be needed.
So, let's blame the Americans, but while we are at it, let's make sure that the US-backed IMF is here to help us sort our problems. And as for the "help won't be needed" part, let's flash back 2 weeks ago to when Papaconstantinou, not to mention Jenny Craig spokesman-emeritus Joaquin Almunia, were both swearing up and down how no bailout/help would ever be needed. So let the lies and scapegoating continue... And if that means placing the blame for the most recent crisis everywhere but where it deserves to be, so be it.
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And I speculate that Christine Lagarade is a moron. </me runs from Speculation Po'lice>
Madame LaGarde is an ex-McKinsey partner, which means she is an extremely arrogant moron.
I ought to add that she also happens to have the most obnoxious tone in politics... even Pelosi cant compete with her condescending manner.
Hmmm... speaking of condescending - anyone heard Angela Knight, spokesperson for UK bankers, on the radio?!
Baker McKenzie the mediocre but large law firm, but McKinsey, brah.
Lagarde is a former member of the French national synchronized swimming team.
And to think we are here doubting her credentials...
From Wikipedia.....
"Synchronized swimming demands advanced water skills, and requires great strength, endurance, flexibility, grace, artistry and precise timing, as well as exceptional breath control when upside down underwater."
Hah ha ha... 'Upside down underwater'! Get it? Amazing, just amazing. Only the French could give us this gift! Wrong line of business, this money management stuff.
Morons arise! Your escapist memes, blames of everyone else has arisen! Not us said the politicians, we didn't issue the debt! Not us said the underwriters, we just doin' or jobs! Not us said the PO'd public, we're just gettin' screwed again. Quick blame the evil Elderberry farmers! Who-the-f-ever! A scapegoat is needed, long live the scapegoat!
Pillory, burn, excoriate, threaten, blame, assignate, opprobate, arise in populist fervor of sorts, lynch, whip, draw, quarter, imprison, fine, be interviewed by Charlie Rose!
The world rejoices in fairness, justice and gullibility. On with the bread and circuses. All shall be fine. Move along. Nothing at all. We found the enemy an its everybody but ourselves. God save the Queen and country! We fixed it ourselves. after all! Whattatrip!
hey, just do what we do... make it illegal to short that stuff
It's all good in my opinion. The more negative publicity given to those "mysterious" *cough* JPMorgan, Goldman *cough* speculators the better.
So if Lloyd Blankfein weighs the same as a duck, then...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yp_l5ntikaU
He turned my currency partner's credit rating into a newt!
Throw him into the Hellespont?
Morons defending liars by chasing fraudsters, thieves and even more liars. You couldn't make this stuff up.
Agreed and it is truly a spectacular Real Life TV show. Of course those of us with gold love their bantering around about FIAT currency, as it is all doomed to drop in value. So sitting back with a nice stack of gold gives one a truly wonderful perspective as the world's leading fleas arguing over who owns the dog while the dog becomes old and more frail with each passing day.
In the end s/he who has the gold makes the rules :)
So I am reading Ludwig Von Mises' "The Theory of Money and Credit", pages 252 and 253 on speculation:
"It is not easy to determine whether there are any who still adhere in good faith to the doctrine that traces back the depreciation of money to the activity of speculators. The doctrine is an indispensable instrument of the lowest form of demagogy; it is the resource of governments in search of a scapegoat."
"Speculation does not determine prices; it has to accept the prices that are dtermined in the market."
First published in 1953. It appears there are those that still adhere to the doctrine, but probably not in good faith.
Think George Soros and The British Pound put that theory to bed in 1992.
No. It proved the worth of speculation. My view, given the state of their finances, Soros' move was early and not enough.
What kind of label do you get if you loan Greece billions of euros at low rates betting on that no matter what the outcome a bailout will always cover your back?
"lucky"
If you guys don't think that the big global macro hedge funds got calls from Goldman and other investment banks ahead of time, thereby exacerbating the raid on European sovereign debt and the euro, then you are all smoking some great shit. In the investment banking food chain, pension funds are at the bottom, while large hedge funds (which generate the bulk of the fees) get first dibs on information arbitrage. Before you castigate the French Finance Minister, who is one of the smartest finance ministers out there, think a little. She may be onto something. Let's see what the Spanish probe uncovers too.
I completely agree that this is one very smart lady. As an aside, her command of English puts most native English speakers to shame.
Goog Lord, I agree with Leo. Chinese solar stocks here I come!
Come on Leo. You can't seriously be blaming a couple of hedgies for the mess Greece finds itself in? So let me follow your logic:
1) Greece spends far beyond its means for much too long a period of time.
2) Greece actually hides as much of this debt as possible.
3) Finally market participants start to see that a) this is unsustainable; b) that the data was fudged
4) Savvy market participants start to re-price "risk" (short the shit out of this crap) to more appropriate levels...
... and you conclude that it was evil of the hedgies? Your solution is to blame the hedgies? What about the Greeks themselves? What about the pension funds that gobbled up the bonds and thereby enabling Greece to live far beyond its means?
Come on Ben, I respect you as an analyst and as an independent trader, but you are one of those guys that profits from all this market volatility. Those "savvy participants" you're talking about aren't half as savvy as you make them out to be. Greece's fiscal crisis has been festering for years. The big global macro hedge funds got fed information ahead of time, set up their OTC trades and profited big time as they went to slaughter the PIIGS. Sure, these hedgies are smart, but don't kid yourself, they got the phone calls from the investment bankers covering them ahead of everyone else and acted on it, exacerbating the spike in sovereign CDS spreads.
C'mon, you serious? Insider information "exacerbated" the situation? According to who's measure? Do you know how wide CDS spreads would be if this information was disseminated throught less...exclusive channels? You're throwing your own subjective valuations into the mix and trying to use them as some objective yardstick against market movements.
The fact of the matter is that Greece cooked its own goose when it thought Socialism funded by debtpitalism would work forever. The opportunity to speculate wouldn't even be there if it weren't for the absurd debt/GDP ratios the government was carrying.
Let's stop calling them hedgies, shall we? As if they some furry little cuties that you just wanted to cuddle all night. They're fucking vampires. And what, vampires don't prey on the weak? It's what they do.
Governments are not 'weak', they are incompetent or evil. So you've got vampires preying on werewolves.
So which bond traders (firms) lost money while they held Greek debt ? anybody research that info..?
The Greek Finance Minister likens his own country's economic situation to "the Titanic", and Madame LaGarde (the former McKinsey & Co. partner) says that "help will not be needed".
Hmmmmmmm....
"So, let's blame the Americans, but while we are at it, let's make sure that the US-backed IMF is here to help us sort our problems"
No, let's blame GS, as the squid is the root of all evil.
Today I received an interesting article from 2003:
http://www.risk.net/risk-magazine/feature/1498135/revealed-goldman-sachs-mega-deal-greece
Ask Argentina how much the IMF helped them when they defaulted on their debt. The IMF's track record is perfect. They make sure American banksters get more as they impoverish countries. Accepting help from the IMF is the ultimate "kiss of death".
I agree with Leo again. Doubling down on Chinese solar.
Geez, I have to agree. Ask Thailand how much the IMF helped them. They still haven't recovered. And all the while HeloBen telling them and the rest of Asia spend less, raise taxes, reduce debt. Suckers!
I guess the question is, would you rather be kissed to death, or just fall off the cliff by yourself.
good to see that you guys actually read the article. it has nothing to do with the IMF. it is about how swaps with non-market reference rates were common knowledge as early as 2003.
but carry on. no grand theory of market manipulation should be impeded by a few pesky facts.
read the article - it has NOTHING to do with the IMF!
leo droppin bombs today
Demagoging speculators has at its root the most
profound envy and jealousy. How can anyone be
allowed to profit from predicting the fallout
of my mistakes? Why couldn't I have been smart
enough to profit from my mistakes?
If they can manipulate the US stock market, why wouldn't they manipulate some ouzo-drinking, plate-throwing backwater where they park their yachts in May?
The squid et al have been above the law in the US for so long that they probably don't know what to do when laws apply to them.
Of course, it is obvious, they just buy more politicians. Probably won't work in China though. I think the Chinese have all the USD they want, thank you.
"And if that means placing the blame for the most recent crisis everywhere but where it deserves to be, so be it."
and that is exactly what we will see.
What is the matter here?
Finally, someone is beginning to look seriously into the obvious shenanigans going on and there is no appreciation for it at all.
I'm not gettin' it.
Maybe it's not what France is saying, but how they are saying it? Witch trials are always a political ploy. If France is really serious, they would throw the banks out of their country, which they will not, because they are not.
Scratch that! What am I saying... defending a French politician? Shows you what one day of giving up EtOH for Lent will do to you.
Bankers are politicians' best friends when they're enabling their "spend today, for tomorrow we may all be dead!" lifestyle, but when the bill comes due, they're "evil speculators".
What a bunch of hypocrites. Not that I didn't know that, but it bears continual repeating.
in light of the World Gold Council report posted earlier, this is a pretty interesting story on gold and gold mining stocks from an interview with Mark Johnson, who runs the USAA Precious Metals and Minerals Fund
http://www.goldalert.com/stories/Gold-Price-Rises-to-1121-Gold-as-Insurance
The Dork of Cork was right. Those naive Greeks, who only wanted to frolic in the fields and press olives were forced to borrow more than they could pay back. Probably at lance-point by conniving non-Hellenic bankers (probably Persians!)
Consult the entrails of a chicken to determine the appropriate response.
The Greeks simply thought they had found the perfect scam and could play it forever.
In contrast, here in the US we thought the same thing, and continue to believe it.
don't know what the real story on this but Mme Lagarde is not ex McKinsey but was running the law firm Baker Mckenzie.Comes across in interviews as a smart lady - maybe because she did post grad in USA !!
She is exceptionally bright and knows her subject matter very well. Politicians like her are a dying breed.
Not nearly fast enough for some.
+1
You see Leo. French politics, like banking, is full of these whizz kid over-achievers. Smart as hell but in the end they rather spend 4 hours debating heli-skiing and backpacking in Bhutan than actually picking up a book and reading.
Really. Try them, I have. They can calculate 4 digit square roots but don't know what was the Thirty Years War (or basic economics for that matter)
McK Alumni seem to be universally very smart, but undeservingly arrogant (I'm ok with arrogant if you can put up the stuff to show for it).
Furthermore, they are great bull-shitters who are groomed to believe their BS and say it with a straight face.
Before defending them you should really see how a case interview is done to select them. The entire selection process is based on how you can think-up wild speculations and sell the idea with a straight face (market size a time machine, comes to mind).
This is why these guys can be extremely dangerous for a firm's health. They can sell the most toxic of ideas without even flinching because they have conviction, the credentials, and very likely, lack the introspeciton to know they are selling a ticking time bomb.
A very similar profile to Keynes....
Paul Kedrosky has an excellent insider's account, Greece: Our Debt, Your Problem (HT: exportbank).
yea as someone else already wrote: throw them into the hotspot
HE FINANCIAL ARISTOCRACY’S COUP D’ETAT OF OUR GOV. TREASURY!
http://bartspace12.blogspot.com/2010/02/deficits-unpaid-banks-fed-move.html
US Taxpayers were F00LED that failure of AIG would be Catastrophic for the financial system!
This VEIL of DECEPTION allowed a COUP D'ETAT of the US Government by the Financial Aristocracy and Wall Street.
Politicians in Washington were bought to give Wall Street what it wanted at expense of Americans for many generations to come. And so were Regulators!
Glaring VIOLATIONS= Bush+Paulson+Shelby+Dodd+Rubin+Greenspan+Summers+Geithner+ Bernake+Clinton
Here we go with the again with the quaint "efficient markets" hypothesis.
These roving hedge funds and hedge funds pretending to be investment banks have gained a critical mass of power and are using that power to dominate people ,companies and now nations.
There is nothing efficient in this hypothetical world that this Tyler lives in - there is just those who wield power and those that are victims of it.
These victims are not market participants - they are serfs to their overlords.
Listen to the French perspective as they are true conservatives who are worried about the balance of power within a system - if that gets skewed the system will not work.
You sir are no DORK! +100
(Any idiot who believes in EMH deserves to get slaughtered in these markets)
"Listen to the French perspective as they are true conservatives who are worried about the balance of power within a system - if that gets skewed the system will not work."
Yes, definitely conservative. Finding people here to support the way the Greek market was undully and artificially propped up. With the very help of those who will all of a sudden, lash out...
Merci Madame Lagarde.
"Heaven forbid such a thing as a somewhat efficient market exists, and Greek yields were merely an indication of the country's otherwise perfectly default status. Nah, surely it is all just speculation."
We should probably start with an efficient market for credit ratings and actual bond yields, rather than CDS yields. Since a AAA security in theory has basically 0 default risk, and CDS sold on that security is inherently a scam.
Or maybe the theory/rating is wrong?
Who said that GS didn't organize the whole fiasco,LEO?. And no I don't think that she is smart(if she was the same one at the time of the Jerome incident). I can't recall,but if she is the same woman who was the finance minister during the JErome blow up,then I think she is stupid,just from the way she tried to portay the incident(little did she know,that the whole banking system will blow up).Whether it was GS who created the whole Greek fiasco or the Marcians,the fact is that neither they nor somebody else could have done that without the stupidity of the Greek goverment(or corruption)and all other goverments which are going to suffer the same fate one by one and each at their own time.All for more political (and other demands unkown to us)advantages for the banks.I think the Greek fiasco was a demonstration of the banks prowes for those who wants to create a prop trading limits on the banks.
It's gonna be awesome when this turns into a no bid market.
Once the BS good news runs out it will
ONEY and I care NOT who writes the LAWS," Nat_han R0thschi1ds
Learn the truth behind the fake recovery!!FED does that for the Financial Aristocracy and D1CTAT0RSHIP!
Crisis 2.0 Begins!
madame legarde's a hottie, so as far i'm concerned, she could sell me the brooklyn bridge and i'll listen to her pitch, even though i know she's selling me shit. and she knows that i know. and i know that she knows that i know. and so on and so on...
personally, i would love to see her in a US courtroom testifying as to what she actually said to timmy, benny & hanky about which beans monsieur sarkozy was going to spill if SocGen didn't get their AIG payout.
i hope she wears black leather for the stand...yum.
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