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Hinde Capital's Ben Davies On The Gold Market
Zero Hedge recently posted several insightful pieces from Hinde Capital, among which the fund's presentation on the ECB's role as the European Commission's whore, and more recently, its presentation on Gold as the "currency of first resort" (recreated below). Last week, fund manager Ben Davies, who previously ran trading for RBS Greenwich Capital in London where he managed a macro portfolio, gave a must hear interview to King World News, in which Ben covers various in depth topics on the gold market and shares his views on "unimaginable price possibilities for the final culmination of the gold bull." Among the things covered are the Andrew Maguire whitsleblower case, David Einhorn's transition from paper to physical gold storage (he notes the storage and indemnification risk), on whether the US government actually owns the hold it represents to holding (noting the demonstrative busting of the very unimpressive Russian spy ring), Russian gold reserve accumulation, where he detours into noting that while gold was 25% of Russian reserve holdings in 2000, it has since plunged to just 5% even as the country has been hoarding gold indicative of the massive currency creation across the world - as currency reserves have grown globally by $7.5 trillion. Ben touches upon the recently popularized concept by Jim Rickards, about an alternative currency basket (aka a new China-Russia-Germany axis) backed by actual physical resources (a modified version of the much dreaded gold standard): "there will be a standardization, a basket of currencies somewhere in the world, that will then become a competing reserve currency very quickly overnight." Most relevantly, Davies answers what he thinks the fair price of gold is: "between $10,000 and $15,000."
He continues: "If you took all the global monetary bases, and I take the G-20 in that case, we currently have a currency that is only backed by gold at 0.26%, and if you look back on a historical precedent, back in the '40-'60's, banks typically have a backing of 40%. In the 1980's that backing got back to 120-140%." This indeed shows that in the 1980s gold was overvalued, at least from an M1 standpoint. The same can not be said about our current mad money printing period.
So what does Ben think the FV of gold is? "If I said gold is to be at 40% just in terms of US encumberment, you can argue for a case of $70-80 trillion's worth of dollars, then we would have a price of $36,000. And if were to halve that, we would have a price of between $10-15,000."
How would the repricing mechanism occur? "If we were not to get a standardization before, I believe like all bull markets, there would be a mania point. There is an eligibility for gold, and it is being considered as money. Gold has really been considered a barbaric relic - I was ridiculed on the floor in 2003, 2004 for even trading gold. When people like Faber asked the question how many actually hold gold, only 2-3% put their hands up. If we see more QE2, if we see more purchases of assets [by the Fed], it would horrendously denigrate the balance sheet of the Fed, which is already not worth the paper it is sitting on, I think in that situation gold is going to be considerably higher."
Much more in the full interview.
Full interview with Ben Davis can be found here, while below we repost the fund's most recent extended letter on gold, for those who may have missed it the first time around.
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Attention John Authers - chief editor, Lex column
John
The Lex column used to have a reputation for even handedness and exceptional financial insight - I seem to recall the exceptional commentary of Michael Lafferty - and your current staffing includes the inevitable glittering line up of Oxbridge grads, and in a refreshing variety of disciplines.
How is it that in these times of huge uncertainty for individual currencies and banking systems there has been no discussion of the amazing gyrations of the precious metal markets, including and particularly the OTC market in London - the LBMA?
I am particularly exercised by the fact that a search for "GATA" or "McGuire" on the FT site brings back only one hit for "GATA" and NOTHING AT ALL for "McGuire".
On the other hand there is coverage for pronouncements from many of the institutional prominenti from BIS, CFTC etc.
Please be clear: my own position is simply that of a casual observer, I represent no-one other than myself in this, but I am curious as to why the ridiculous shapes painted on the Gold and Silver charts for the last ten years, and the amazing revelation in public hearing at the CFTC that the LBMA is leveraged 100:1 seem to have escaped ANY discussion at the FT and more particularly Lex.
These seem to be modern day crimes in progress on a breathtaking scale about which the establishment has done nothing at all.
The enormous implications of the testimony of Andrew McGuire as to the market rigging activities of JP Morgan, notified in writing, described, exemplified, forewarned and finally witnessed by the CFTC has generated apparently NO INTEREST at the journal, despite the complete blackout on the progress of the police treatment of the culprit detained immediately following McGuire's testimony when he apparently attempted to harm McGuire in London.
Since then, there has been no release of the culprit's identity, nor any information as to for whom he may have been working, nor any statement concerning the police action.
In fact, the only piece I found in the FT which even mentioned the ludicrous "concentrated short position" in the precious metals on Comex appears to have been factually incorrect in its claim that only 40% of the concentrated short position was in the hands of 4 operators.
The weekly "Commitment of traders" Comex report tells a very different, and entirely darker tale.
It is not important whether you agree or not with the whistle blowing statements, the shadowy role and apparent secrecy shrouding the activities of the BIS which has in the last fortnight managed to describe its gold swap transaction for some 280 tonnes of gold as at first belonging to a central bank counterparty, but the provenance then quickly revised to a commercial bank or banks.
It is not important whether you regard the GATA proponents as mad or conspiracy theorists, though they include among them the Chairman and CEO of Sprott in Canada, so there is a sporting chance they may know a little about the precious metals markets,
It is not even important if you agree that the influence of JP Morgan Chase extends to places where it has no business to be.
What is important is simply that there is open balanced discussion of the factual issues involved, which are likely to prove to be an order of magnitude more significant than such issues as the Madoff ponzi.
If you do not think it appropriate or correct to cover issues of this magnitude some brief words of explanation as to the reason why not would be welcome, particularly since the rank stupidity and arrogance evident in the circumstances surrounding "Brown's bottom", a closely related issue, are now starting to emerge.
That is unless you feel that I am also completely wrong headed, and the facts unimportant, in which case should you reply to tell me so I am content to go away and file the pink newsprint in the toilet it will so richly deserve.
Surely you cannot have been muzzled?
Best wishes and all that,
David Ivory
To the point and very well written.
Cuz I think his name is spelled "Maguire", MacGyver.
Your suggestion doesn't produce any results either.
http://search.ft.com/search?ftsearchType=type_news&page=3&queryText=Maguire
Dear David,
I would truly like to help.
You seem to be having trouble with why things are happening as they are. This is evidenced in the statement: "How is it that in these times of huge uncertainty for individual currencies and banking systems there has been no discussion of the amazing gyrations of the precious metal markets, including and particularly the OTC market in London - the LBMA?" in your "letter."
Let's look at just a part of that.
"..in these times of huge uncertainty for individual currencies and banking systems.."
Are you really so unsophisticated as to have uncertainties about *individual currencies?*
I hope not, they are worthless as you well know. When they no longer represented stored human energy, they became worthless. Our present entertainment is just the gross social realization of that fact.
Uncertainty in *banking systems* is another issue for you. Do you really have this uncertainty in your heart of hearts? I think not. They are today's devices of "commerce" now that they hold not zero worth, but negative worth and as a result social destruction as their core. That speaks to our resultant society, a festering shifting pile of love.
I think you know all this, but inside you can't face it.
It is too much to take in. It is as it should be, cold, brutal, and menacing. Love it, it is your home.
I sincerely hope this helps.
LB
If we talk about currencies, they are worthless and it's a fact. Now all those gyrations in their value is nothing more than smoke screen. One month you do the printing and you go down, next month I'll do the same operation and I will go down this way we are still at the same level and all those dummies won't notice any difference. We can play that game for ever, if you want to make money on FX just try to figure out time period for printing operation and you are fine, probably they are smart enough to make it tough to figure out for big players but small guys can use their own mind to make a buck at THE CASINO.
This addresses the problem of currencies being unable to be objectively valued:
Zero Hedge General Discussion Forum: Freegold
the currencies are clearly not entirely worthless, as they trade for goods and services currently (get it while you can). ditto on the banks as the shares trade for currencies which are.... that, properly valued (marked to market not model and with no government underwriting), the banking system, especially tbtf, is insolvent is another matter (probably insolvent). imo overstating/exaggerating the case makes the issues less pressing, as it misses the excruciatingly slow (but accelerating) process, but process in progress nonetheless, of the collapse of the incredible edifice of cards (fiat debt/money).
Have patience. The reason you're not hearing anything about Andrew Maguire is because there is an ongoing investigation. The story will break with the NY Post. Trust, shit is real.
The last time Maguire wrote about silver fraud in NY Post, it fell -8% from 18.60 to 17.08
http://thedailygold.com/commentaries/the-sunday-new-york-post-publishes-...
http://stockcharts.com/charts/gallery.html?%24silver
According to Jim Rickards on his most recent King world news interview, gold and silver were the ONLY two commodities left out of the new futures regulations in the new reform bill. He is amazed that they finally tipped their hand, that gold and silver are being manipulated.
I agree we may be moving toward severe deflation, but eventually, and we wont know when, we may move the opposite direction. I just could not imagine waking up one day to hyperinflation and being left with only currency.
Platinum BITCHEZ!!!! All you goldies bitchez will eventually get your throat sliced by Central Bankers. All the platinum ever mined would fit into a 25ft cube
Markets are more powerful then the Central Banks. Go for Gold.
Reality seems to suggest the opposite.
Certainly, because if they manipulate gold and silver they would never do the same to platinum.
Ya know, it's getting a little tiresome with you guys always diss'n da bitchez. I say:
Gold BASTERZS !!!!!!
here, here.
I think you mean 'Hear, hear'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hear_hear
DavidC
Man, couldn't you just let me believe that he had a thing for me:
(come) Here, Here
Platinum has the potential to be the COMEX short squeeze of a lifetime; not enough above ground for the shorts to deliver physical to cover their paper
Andrew,
There is not enough Gold, or Siver to do the SAME thing...........
Plat, is rare, far more so than Gold, and Slvr........
But, It's mostly an INDUSTRIAL Metal................
That's why platinum will never replace gold...there's simply not enough of it!
Dear David Ivory
Your letter is outstanding,one of the best I've read on ZH. Please, keep posting.
Lex is a tool of the of banking establishment that prohibits any disclosure of economic matters as they really are. We are instead, subjected to an endless blare of shallow propaganda designed to blind us so that we may be more easily robbed.
In a saner world, it would be the likes of you writing Lex whilst the mediocre scribblers would be consigned to some nameless and insignificant 4th rate rag, most useful for lining bird cages and/or wiping bums.
Not that anybody gives a shit to take the time to actually read this stuff...too many closed minds regarding gold here...but, oh well, here's a good copy/paste for you from Harvey Organ's blog site.
Here is Ed Steer on this:
I'm going to take a few minutes of your time and walk you through the July Bank Participation Report. This report shows how many banks [both U.S. and foreign] are long and short the various markets... plus how many Comex contracts they are long and short. Silver and gold are the two commodities that are of interest here. Here's the linkto the July report... with silver and gold being about two thirds of the way down the page... and it's ever so simple to follow... and I mean it.
In silver you will notice that 'X' number of U.S. bullion banks are long 257 Comex contracts and short a whopping 31,803 Comex contracts. As the numbers show... the 257 long contracts represent 0.2% of total Comex silver open interest which is stated here as 118,962 contracts. The 31,803 short contracts represents 26.7% of total open interest.
But what the silver numbers doesn't say is how many U.S. banks hold those positions. The CFTC used to publish them, but once Ted Butler discovered the Bank Participation report and started to write about it, the bullion banks screamed bloody murder, so the CFTC changed the report so that if there are less than 4 U.S. banks holding either a long or short position... the number is not shown. They don't show the number of non-U.S. banks either, because if they did... by the process of subtracting that from the total number of banks involved, you could figure it out all by yourself, dear reader... and we mustn't have that now, must we?
From past historical BPR data, the number of U.S. banks has pretty much always been two... and I see nothing in these numbers that indicate that this has changed. I can also pretty much say that 95% [or more] of that 31,803 Comex contracts held short... is held by JPMorgan... and the other 5% [or less] is most likely held by HSBC USA. So if you subtract 0.2% from 26.7%... you will see that JPMorgan and HSBC are short 26.5% of the entire Comex open interest in silver... and if you take out all the market-neutral spread trades... that shoots the percentage to well over 30% of the Comex silver market that is held short by these two banks. Any questions so far?
Looking at the six [8-2=6] non-U.S. banks' Comex silver positions... they hold 2,284 long positions and 614 short positions... for a net longposition of 1,670 Comex contracts. This represents 1.9%-0.5%=1.4% of the total Comex open interest in silver.
Two U.S bullion banks are net short 26.5% of the total Comex open interest in silver... and 6 Non-U.S. banks are net long 1.4% of the total open interest. Who controls the silver price on the Comex, dear reader.
I'll leave gold up to you... which is a couple down from silver. There are 4 U.S. bullion banks here, so they show all the numbers. But even a cursory glance shows that the 4 U.S. bullion banks are net short 137,756 Comex contracts in gold [13.77 million ounces]... which represents 23.8% of the entire gold open interest on the Comex. And I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts, dear reader, that 95% of that 13.77 million ounces is held short by Morgan and HSBC. The 14 non-U.S. bullion banks are net short a whole 6,253 Comex contracts... which is 1.1% of total Comex open interest.
So, once again, 23.8% of the entire Comex open interest in gold is held short by two U.S. banks... the other two banks are virtually immaterial. But 14 non-U.S. banks are net short 1.1% of the total Comex open interest. Who controls the price?
This is a JPMorgan operation from one end to the other. But in all fairness, JPMorgan is only the executioner. They receive the order to swing their axe from either the Federal Reserve, the U.S. Treasury... or both. It's as simple as that. Then the boyz at Morgan pick up the phone, call the other bullion banks, set up the date and time... and then collectively pull the trigger... just like they did yesterday... and July 1st. That's all there is, dear reader... there's no more to it then that.
Turd,
I read him every article.He's spot ON...........
No reason to wonder WHY the Gold & Slvr Mkts go up or down, they are Controlled.........
Under the NEW Financial Bill, the number of options,will be limited.
The BIG 4-6 banks, are pitching a hissy.........according to Ted Butler.He states if once this bill is passed,(it's ready for Bama to sign), and they continue the SOS, He and GATA will be in their faces(Congress).
Because they will be breaking the law...............very interesting times dead ahead.
DZ: You mean Congress may have done something I could actually get excited about???
Just noted an oddity from the U. S. Mint.
New One-Ounce Gold $5 Proposed
Since when does the Mint put a face value of $5 on a 1 ounce gold coin?
Very weird. Some future purpose in this?
Story is here:
http://www.numismaster.com/ta/numis/Article.jsp?ad=article&ArticleId=122...
The surcharges and everything else about the issue are normal, just the denomination is not $50 as usual. The value of $5 is reserved for 1/10th ounce coins.
They'll use the "rusty" 999 from Russia. That's why the $5 spot.
Yeah. Read that. I think it's a diversion. That was too easy to verify.
Piss poor reporting -- or a joke. Not sure which.
Rocky,
I haven't looked into the US Mint thing, but I received this: http://www.roadtoroota.com/public/261.cfm
It is pretty sensational, but if you remember Jim Rickards talking about Russia & China creating a basket currency backed by gold.... I'm not making predictions, just standing in the corner watching while the other folks dance.
It may make for an interesting novel one day. But, what if the only way that the US could hang on to the reserve status is by returning back to a gold-based currency? What if the rust spot on the Russian golden coin was an amateur CIA tactic? What a great novel indeed...throw in a few vampires & werewolves and we'll have every girl from aged 12 to 20 asking for our autograph.
Rocky,
It's in the bill:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-5680
Wonder if it is a typo by the politicians ...or their staff....I have contacted the Representative, Mr Boozman for clarification.
Representative wants to stamp $5 on a 1 oz .999 US gold coin? His name should be spelled Bozoman
Janice, this is really abnormal. Something we don't know yet. It breaks from all past precedent. It's destabilizing to say the least. I have contacted my Congressman about this just to stir the pot.
I know that this is really abnormal, which is why I think it was a staff typo. Hasn't every gold American Eagle had $50 on it and every Buffalo ever minted? To now say that a one ounce coin is worth $5 would imply devaluation of the tenth...meaning that every fiat hundred dollar bill would magically turn into $10. IMHO, the bill will be forwarded to a committee where the committee will realize the typo and change it to $50. I certainly understand why you are concerned, but I just don't see the bill leaving the committee in that form. To say that the eagle for 2010 is worth $50, but the 2011 comemerative is worth $5. Makes no sense, people would hoard the old stuff because it would be 10 times more valuable.
Rocky,
I have another question...related to your field. I can purchase 2 gold coins or 100 oz silver. Which one should I get? I only purchase in round lots, so 1 gold & 50 silver is kinda out of the question. I know about industrial uses, silver depletion, gold as a store of wealth, I am just asking for your feet on the ground, gut response to a knowledgeable purchaser.
My opinion only: Silver will be the first metal to break down due to depletion at COMEX, so it will go higher first. Not sure at all about the lag for gold, but the feces will have hit the fan with silver popping. It really doesn't matter unless your intent is to sell. If you want to hold metal for money, then silver will buy day to day essentials. Gold will be your backup for wealth protection. My major holding is gold and other tangibles, but silver is what I expect to actually "need" first. Hold a bit o' both, of course. I am buying silver. That may not meet your needs so carry on.
Major brain cramp: We have been talking about $5 gold coins, and then this:
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2010/07/ron-paul-silver-ounce...
Ron Paul Silver Ounces Accepted at Michigan Gas Station; Chiropractor Accepts Gold, Silver, Apple Pie; Back to the Stone Age; Chickens Invade LansingThink about how many $5 gold coins it would take to equal the payment in precious metal to buy something. Makes ya wonder about the reasoning. I DO hope it was just a typo in the bill. H.R. 5680: United States Marshals Service 225th Anniversary Commemorative Coin Act
Thanks for the advice. I've got some weird views ~ every material possession has a selling price. Ultimately, all the gold & silver will be sold, it's just a matter of by whom....me or the kids. When I buy something, I automatically determine a selling price and I hold until I get a price. My father gave me a framing hammer before he died. The selling price is in the millions. Gold, I will part with at $10,000 per oz. Silver at $500. I figure anything over that and I'm just being greedy. I can afford to hold until it gets there, if not, I'll reduce my selling price. But, right now, that's what I'm looking for.
With all the land speculation, a guy in Florida has a marina that he wanted to sell. He purchased it for $800,000, a big company came and offered him $4 million. He wouldn't sell, because he figured that if he could get $4M, he could get $8M...then the market fell. Now he's depressed all the time because he can't find a buyer.
Heck, I'll take metal in exchange for services/work. That's what the problem is, there is such a lack of faith in our government, politicians & the money and banking system that I'm with them....I'll take a chicken. I know that trade and bartering is taxable, but what does the IRS want? A gizzard? No money here : )
Janice, you are SOLID! I am liquidating every trinket and do-dad around here in order to be able to travel light. Trading some of that fiat for lead is good, too.
A little hint for you as well: Any coin becomes jewelry with the addition of a cheap bezel.
They won't confiscate "jewelry". I carry a $20 gold piece as a money clip.
I buy from these folks and they do just fine:
http://www.bezel.com/
Hey, are those ebay prices for real? Is this what we will see on Monday morning?
Dang those bezels are expensive. Nice, but rich. I'll have to create some hair thingy-a-bob.
By all means go for the cheap ones! I just wanted a little value in the extra gold/silver content. Gold filled is fine, but if you have to sort them out in a hurry it's a pain.
Here ya go:
http://www.flintski.com/coin_bezels_wholesale_prices.htm#CALL
RR<
"I DO hope it was just a typo in the bill. H.R. 5680: United States Marshals Service 225th Anniversary Commemorative Coin Act"
IMHO the reason would be because their Commemoratives.........therfore not legal tender.
Either way, WHO cares?.............you planning on handing your 1oz. $50.00 FV Gold for $50.00 fiat...........???
Dream on dudeski!!!!...;>)
Doesn't matter whether the coin is a commemorative or a bullion or proof. Weight determines the denomination. Or didn't you know that?
Not sure this question is appropriate for this thread, but what's one to do with assets tied up in tax-protected investments (like 401k, etc.), esp. with limited fund choices? I'm not presently willing to take a 50% haircut on those assets (and convert to cash then PM).
Not sure this is appropriate either, but what are some trusted sites/locations for purchasing silver?
Thanks
Both are bigger questions than this section allows, and they have been addressed in past postings. Try searching for your terms in the search box -- works great!
Thanks - should have thought of that first :)
False flag. Gold and silver manipulators using fear as a tool to cast aspersions on the purity of gold.
They are idiots... They could say its redeemable for 1 cent USD, no one is stupid enough to belive that is the actual value. Geithner is delusional and suffering from epic levels of small man syndrome.
Here is what the elite's plan for the world, Rockefeller Foundation Study.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/rockefeller-study-outlines-doom-decade-life-...
Before people just junk this they should actually read it....thanks for posting this dude - interesting stuff
Doom and fear sold books since at least Doomsday Book and Revelation.
Ehrlich, Limits to Growth, Global Warming, Malthus, Nostradamus, Population Bomb, Rockefeller Foundation "Study", Ruff Times, Y2K only recent examples.
Forecasts were wildly off the mark, and anyone investing inb them lost lots of money. In fact, Ehrlich lost a bet with Julian Simon...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon-Ehrlich_wager
think about how foolish those nuclear fallout shelters from the 50s and 60s are....now some people are storing mass quantities of food, gold, seeds and water purification.
strange things can and will happen so I've got my 1911
Kid you not. I found exploded cans of soup and hash in a bedroom wall in an old house I bought in Fla. in 1980. Sent a label to Campbells and they said it was from the 50's. Figured it was the bomb scare.
Monkey,
"think about how foolish those nuclear fallout shelters from the 50s and 60s are....now some people are storing mass quantities of food, gold, seeds and water purification."
How FOOLISH!!!.............ever do an under school desk drill?, ever head for a basement, in school?.Ever seen all public bldgs w/Nuclear fallout signs posted on them?
Ever been terrified by the evening news, or at MATCH point, w/ Nuclear War, IF one party did not BACK DOWN.
And it was a guarantee............ NOPE didn't think so.(actually DID happen?)...........
The Soviets BLINKED.( Maybe you heard of the Cuban Missle Crisis?, if not, do some reseach, some here lived it).
ALL of this.........
So,do not desparage what you have NO frigging clue about.
As for the Shelters?..........I wish I had one now, for storage, and storm protection, and what ever else may come.
Have you thought about how much food is in a cities pipeline?,3 days on shelves,max 3 weeks in Distribution Centers....after that ZERO bro.Or, your water distribution is screwed?
Any clue how fast that 3 day,3 week supply would last, in a real emergency?.
Stores would be empty in hours, Dist Ctrs, a couple of days........no rail, or trucking...your ON YOUR own.
As for your piss ant 1911, I suggest you seriously consider upping the ante.
Well, its one of 4 possible scenarios they outline. But go ahead and believe that the world is going to end if you must.
" The amount of substitute money, mainly in the form of derivatives, shrunk at lightening pace, .....".
With due respect and politeness I disagree with this statement ( tho agree with the rest & the comment/reply above) as the amount, or total value , of derivatives in the shadow banking system is, in total, an unknown quantity.
But one can estimate that it's near or over one quadrillion dollars. I have heard that number for years now.
He used the past tense. It appears it did shrink and that is where the Fed's largess was diverted to pump it back up. You notice none of that largess appears to have hit the street (Main, not wall) Can't have the big hogs' closet money supply shrinking now, can we? Don't ever forget that the guys with that big honkin' pile of derivaties are the same guys who own the stock of the federal reserve bank. This guy is a limey which would explain a delay in his analysis of what happens across the pond.
zhandax,
" You notice none of that largess appears to have hit the street "
The reason is the Fed pay's the Banks 3%,so they hold onto it, for a sure 3%............that way, they make money, and inflation doesn't TAKE off, because it's not ON main street.........
This will END, when and IF the holders of T-Bills,and US Bonds dump them,and the Fed MUST monetize 100% of our debt..........
Then, those banks will have to dump it into the Main street.........
Moonshot................
Why not just stop trying to justify gold as money to people who staunchly refuse to believe it and call it a commodity that performs exceptionally well in terms of price and as a store of value when the discount rate is either trending near zero for prolonged periods or passes 5% and continues increasing?
Has anyone heard that they attached a provision to the health care bill that would require that all transactions in gold of $600 or more must be reported to the IRS beginning in 2012?
Yes, but it doesn't apply to just gold. If you purchase a boat for $600, you are required to gather the SS #, name and address of the seller on a 1099-MISC so that the seller can duly report the capital gain (or loss) on their tax return. If the seller does not report the gain or loss, the IRS has your paperwork (thank you) and the authority to harrass the guy that sold you the boat.
There are several entities fighting this provision as cumbersome....businesses would have to chase down 1099s from Staples.
sounds like a modern day version of the Stamp Act....and we know how that situation evolved!
the cure for 1984 is 1776
IMHO we have already passed the point of no return when we willingly gave up our liberty that our founding father fought for in exchange for false sense of safety. The beast will undoubtedly march into facism as envisioned in the recently released Rockefeller Foundation Study.
I would expect the economic depression will prevent government from doing just that.
The Great Depression of 1930s actually gave a rising platform for Adolf Hilter and his National Socialism Party.
Proving that another Depression won't change America.
I think that the end game is some type of currency crisis where people's unemployment checks can't buy a pack of cigarettes and the government goons stop showing up for Taser training / drone testing. The wars are expensive and will be very inflationary.
My feeling is that fascism and "corporate"ism is already here. The fascists now teach your kids about recycling and make sure all your bills are paid (i.e. FICO credit scores) in the name of national security.
"Corporatism" is exemplified by the bailouts, BP, Goldman, Fed, - well shit that's what this site is all about.
They'll have to make a move on the Second Amendment first. This is history in the making.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjDS26IG0ic
such a contradictory statement.
Time has come to locate assets outside of USA. This easy to do. Relax, all these regulations are bullshit and need not apply.
Janice,
Yes, there are four Dem Senators already trying get this changed....as the load on the small business, and the IRS would cripple the system.
And they would damn sure be right.
I sincerely hope that the politicians get this right. I am not sure that it would do much if they couldn't.
Whomever put this provision in the law hoped that it would capture all those greedy people who sold stuff, made a profit and didn't report it. However, I think it would cause a number of taxpayers to realize that not only is there a capital gain provision, there is also a capital loss provision. Ultimately, I fear that it may be a loosing proposition and loss of revenue for the government...not to mention the paperwork nightmare.
People are getting sick of all the laws. In Florida, you have to wear your seat beat or get a ticket, no passengers in the back of a truck, dog must be secure if in the bed of a truck, owners have to pick up poop or be fined. Oh, but if you ride a motorcycle, no seat belt or helmet is required. It has gotten to the point that soon we will be fined for not farting in a can in order to reduce methane gas emissions. With so many laws, no one even knows what is legal anymore; hence people will disregard all of them. I predict that even if the law passes, it will be a big no-go with the masses. Can you imagine a guy selling a used tractor to give up his social security number to a stranger?
Janice is right, it's all transactions. Getting a crown from your dentist will qualify. Some have put forth that it is an exercise to get ready for a VAT. Getting the paper trails all worked out. That makes a lot of sense. The paperwork is gonna be a real nightmare.
The point that people arguing for gold miss is that you can't debate a currency into existence.
Right now, if you use gold as a primary currency, you will be shot. It won't happen immediately, and you'll get many warnings first, but you will be shot.
If the German/Russia/China axis takes hold, then Brazil, India, and other regional powers will follow suit.
Countries that maintain paper standards would end up like North Korea very quickly - isolated from international trade. Under a gold standard, economic calculation becomes far more feasible, and will rapidly correct malinvestment with great vengeance and furious anger.
You'll have government scrip to pay off your local gang and for various tax eaters to receive their meal tickets (those that still exist), corporate credits, and commodities.
It would please me if only for the reason that it would end the US-Saudi-Israeli troika of stupidity.
Make that the CIA/MI6/Mossad Axis of looting and mass murder
911 inside job
Mish posted this one today...and Mish used to avoid talking about gold...interesting
Ron Paul Silver Ounces Accepted at Michigan Gas Station; Chiropractor Accepts Gold, Silver, Apple Pie; Back to the Stone Age; Chickens Invade LansingHere's four interesting ways businesses, private citizens, and counties are coping with the economic depression. The first is the most important one. Let's hope it catches on.
Gold, Silver, Copper, Freely Accepted as Money
Connect Mid-Michigan reports Competing currency being accepted across Mid-Michigan
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2010/07/ron-paul-silver-ounces-accepted-at.html
Great news! And unpaving the asphalt roads is real miracle. Maybe the U. S. can lower its standards gradually? Or, perhaps, be enough along that undoing all the madness will be accepted and encouraged. I was raised on a farm on a gravel road. People would slow down when passing so as not to throw gravel and harm the passing car. Most waved, that lifted hand from the steering wheel to acknowledge the other driver. We could use a little more of that.
Marc Faber expects a return to massive quantitative easing by October | Business Intelligence Middle East |July 16, 2010
INTERNATIONAL. Marc Faber the Swiss fund manager and Gloom Boom & Doom editor said the US is so full of debt, stuck in a period of slow growth and high enemployment, that the Federal Reserve will soon have to revert back to crisis era policies.
Speaking to Bloomberg in a live interview Thursday, Faber said: " I am convinced the Fed will soon implement further quantitative easing," adding "and massively so."
"It will probably happen in september, October," Faber said, putting a timeline to his prediction.
Explaining his reasoning, he said: "The US economy is not robust."
Not buying into the good news brigade of commentators who believe the worst is behind us and the US economy is on the mend, he said: "We have mixed signals, but in general the economy is still weak."
Nor has the recent rise of the euro dampened his views on Europe. Faber said Europe does not have a shot at growth and is stuck in sideways movements in its economy, for years to come, as austerity and bailouts weigh on growth.
In his latest monthly market commentary the famed investor discloses a bit more about his investment philosophy.
"I feel that most investors take far too many risks – often with borrowed money – and fail to diversify sufficiently. They also have little patience, very short-term time horizons and no tolerance for losses," Faber writes.
"Their expectations about investment returns are completely unrealistic… Most investors buy a stock or make an investment with the view that within a month the return should be between 10% and 20%," he adds.
"If you can achieve an annual average real return of just 3% on all your assets (inflation adjusted), you will leave a huge fortune to your children."
I prefer diversification and no leverage," he adds explaining "I have seen time and again investors (including myself) be right about an asset class' future performance but fail to convert those views into any capital gains…"
"The prime consideration should always be capital preservation and avoiding large losses," he concludes.
http://www.bi-me.com/main.php?id=47181&t=1&c=33&cg=4&mset=
I just got an email from Alan Grayson's office:
Well, we did it! We got an independent audit of the Federal Reserve ready for the President's signature. That's what the Senate's vote to approve the financial reform bill means; the audit authority is in there. Now we will find out which zombie banks on Wall Street got a new lease on life with Fed money, as the Fed's balance sheet grew by over one trillion dollars.
I didn't know that. I'm assuming Grayson knows what he's talking about. If so, this is pretty good news.
Yup. Huffo has a thread on it too.
Grayson's twitter....
http://twitter.com/alangrayson
Don't hold your breath!
Thoughts on Grayson's ambitions for greater political office?
I love these politicians who actually listen to their constituents (Grayson and Ron Paul), and don't just take every misguided government policy and twist it for political gain (Barney Frank).
Grayson as a VP candidate in 2012? Maybe if things are bad (or at least only good for the elite) he would have a shot.....my two cents.
It amazes me that people are so enamored by Grayson's fight against the fed (credit where credit is due), that they are willing to completely overlook the fact that he is 100% an over the top statist. He simply wants the power of the Fed in his own grubby little hands.
If Congress had more control over the Fed, you'd never hear a peep out of him. My guess is that at some point after a Congressional Hearing, Heli-Ben made Grayson toss his salad, and ol Alan Boy hasn't got the taste out of his mouth yet.
He may be right about the Fed, but it ends there.
can't disagree with anything you wrote....all politicians are different levels of scum just the legal sycophancy emblematic of our soon to be failed Republic
Yeah! And all lawyers are shysters, all doctors are quacks, all auto mechanics are crooks, all waitresses are stupid, all students are lazy, etc. Nobody is what they say and all are charlatans. What career field have you chosen, Monkey?
Now, where were we?
This is a watered down version of the original bill. In the watered down version there are limitations on what the FED will reveal and what will be audited. They threw us a crumb and we acted like it was a five course meal.
FischerBlack,
I think most here already know who THEY are.
Also, this independent audit, is limited...........and,unless sometings changed is a ONE time shot.
Ben Davies has been busy lately; he has also penned this essay on gold and money in the last few days.... Money - The Real Stuff.
That's all we need.
Another story to whip up the gold hoarders into a frenzy.
So that Goldman Sachs can fleece them once again.
Apart from the gold subject being reminiscent of the 2000-2006 dinner party RE conversations and braggings, I can only guess that there's definitely an opportunity for a major player to capitalize on the frenzy to the downside similar to the Paulson/GS MBS short. And if anyone mentions the market is too small, $50B GLD alone is not. And with an almost precise paper to physical correlation, I can assure you the physicals will take a hit as well. But of course gold hoarders would have either sold at the top or never had the intention of ever selling anyway.
Why would you think Goldbugs are somehow being "fleeced by GS"? I haven't heard anyone around here say they are selling any of their gold. More to the point, why not comment on the facts presented in the story instead of disparaging gold investors?
+ infiniti Bay of Pigs
I feel like my stash of Krugerands, bars and Pandas is saying 'screw you' to the lardasses at Goldman and in Congress.
Robo
Can our Avatar's meet, say 8:30ish?
Man, there are some sexually repressed people out there.
Wrong answer. The very last thing I want to see is a set of bouncing tits, fake ones at that.....but give me a set of
A frustrated lesbian perhaps?
No, I'm a flaming homosexual trapped in a woman's body.
Sorry to hear that.
So, how does that happen, RT? People running back and forth to the coin shop buying and selling gold Eagles? I think not. It's people trading paper gold.
They deserve what they get for feeding the Ponzi. I only make one-way trips.
+100...ditto
Bingo
RT,
WE know the Mkts are manipulated, and we know who does it,like clockwork.
Getting fleeced only happens when and if you sell.
In the end, those who have a bearish view were correct. The SPY's failed at the uptrend and showed a very negative weekly bar. A drop below 104.5 will confirm move towards 93. How can I post charts on this site? Not that you guys really need me to put them up. thx.
Off point, but actually on point:
Zero Hedge got (another) big nod from none other than the Barron, Alan Ableson.
I am not sure what the subscription audience for Barrons is. It is not all that large. But there are few people who consider themselves players on either the Street or on the D.C. side who don't read it.
Hat Tip for Tyler Durden.
http://online.barrons.com/article/SB500014240529702032960045753632905460...
Barron's
WE'RE INDEBTED TO ZERO HEDGE for a P.S. to the above. It cites a recent piece in the South China Morning Post, in which an economist at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences reports that, based on readings of electricity meters, there are 64.5 million empty apartments and houses in the country's urban areas.
That, declares Zero Hedge, is five times the roughly 12 million vacant habitations (including shadow inventory) in the U.S. In other words, Zero Hedge exclaims, "China is covertly funding and creating a housing bubble at least five times as big as" our own late and unlamented housing bubble before it burst and left both housing and the economy in tatters.
An incorrigible optimist, we reckon that the consequences of a bust may prove only twice as bad in China as they did here. But why doesn't that make us feel any better?
__
WE ARE MAINSTREAM!
More like some in the mainstream media are doing their job (thanks Anderson Cooper and Charlie Sheen)!!!
Did it occur to you that the population of China is a little larger than that of the US?...Not saying that China doesn't have a housing bubble.
It is far more a question of banking size comparisons than those of populations. How much more equity buffer does China's 1+ billion population provide to its far smaller banking system? Apples and oranges.
Well done ZH, well done.
TD,
According to Jim Rickards on his most recent King world news interview, gold and silver were the ONLY two commodities left out of the new futures regulations in the new reform bill. He is amazed that they finally tipped their hand, that gold and silver are being manipulated.
Is it coincidence or is this a sign of manipulation of pm?
Mr. D,
Congrats............:>), HAT TIP.
Also, 65 Million empties, with close to 1Bln, farmers...........leaves close to 600 million Urban dwellers...........
The ratios DO get a bit more important.When viewed in that light.
When gov goons go wild printing paper to devalue currency, common sense folk vote with each ounce of silver & gold they physically get their hands on!! Lets face it the vote is coming in and the CONgress/SINate will naturally be voted out by honest money gold/silver replacing goon lies of infinite paper debt now and for ever amen; to paper ponzi!! It occurs naturally where the truth becomes self evident! You know those valid principles in the constitution which cannot be buried in all the lies conjured in time or eternity!! Truth prevails!! goons fall into the paper pit of worthlessness dug for others!! Best way to keep from falling into that pit is to separate yourself from dead head fed lies and the paper ponzi system which soon collapses!! Historically, an ounce of cure worth a pound of worthless paper ponzi!
You posted 8 sentences, and used 14 exclamation points!!!!!!!
And to top it off, I have no idea what you said past your first sentence.
That's amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Let me guess, Sarah Palin in 2012?
He said that we "vote" by holding physical metal in order to negate the Ponzi.
Simple really. So, he gets excited. So do I!!!!!!
Ill send you an ounce of silver per 1000 of your worthless ponzi paper notes.
We all know the dollar is going to be coming on rolls of toilet paper by the end of the week.
(/sarcasm)
Dudes, this just in:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/christie-blatchford/an-unki...
what a bitch....the story that is.
That those cockroaches are still breathing is a testament to someone's patience.
Good link, thanks.
May well be relevant to buzlightening comment #475612 further down this thread, about the possibility of a run on physical silver.
I sympathize with her and think the bank should have been more accomodating, but I do see their point in making sure she knows what she is doing and not making a bad decision in her weakened state. Her signing over power of attourney at that age and in bad health would warrant such measures. I don't agree with them being able to refuse her delivery without some valid proof e.g. mental instability.
Thanks for posting this. This is why my banking is limited to as few interactions as possible with a credit union. These people are human garbage. Note that in the comments there is mention that the story got pulled from the front page. Hmmmm. What's also interesting is that the author of the article clearly doesn't seem to understand the larger implications of this story. We should help spread this one around.
Can't trust any of them. A few months ago, we called our bank to request a raise in our daily ATM limit for the day. They were happy to comply, but actually asked us why we needed the additional cash. My response was "uh, because we want it."
We've been slowly draining our accounts ever since.
Michelle,
A suggestion.....do not do it SLOWLY...................
You may/will attract attention you do not want................
Sounds like a typical female Canadian bank employee to me. If you want remorseless heartless brainless robot like adherence to all rules, no matter how tiny and insignificant, whether they make sense or not, nothing can beat a female Canadian bank employee.
What surprises me is the bank's attempt to justify themselves. Usually when you question this kind of thing they just repeat the rule over and over again.
I'm not kidding. You would have to live here to understand.
I'm also surprised the lawyer son put his mother through all this when he could have sold the certificates for cash, then used the cash to buy silver over the counter at the bank. It would have amounted to the same thing.
The platinum chart is looking very toppy. Not sure how this will play out for gold.
From Harvey Organs blog we may conclude a run on physical silver will begin yesterday!! Already happening!! http://harveyorgan.blogspot.com/ "
In conclusion, we continue to see a massive exit of silver from the customer vaults.
I want to emphasize the small number of silver contracts that were served upon yesterday, ie 8 contracts. It seems to me that word is getting around to the ultimate silver owners at the comex to vacate the mother ship. It is also suprising that the bankers cannot get any other silver holders to lease their silver.
That will explain the massive exodus out of the comex. A default at the silver comex looks eminent. Silver will default first.
"Premiums on silver eagle rolls are still hovering around the 20% mark on ebay. 1oz gold eagles around 10%. What's with the silver eagles man? Me likey.
Every time silver went to premiums like that and Silver Eagles or Maples minted set new records, silver crashed without exception...
10%? Were have you been buying? I've been getting 1oz gold eagles for approx. 4% over spot. Are you refering to some other type of premium. The 10% is more likely on the 1/2 ounce or 1/4 ounce from what I've seen.
OZ,
Anyone paying Premiums like that is getting screwed.(right now)
eBay is gay............and the people putting these bullion coins up at those prices are gouging, big time.
I highly recommend getting Ed Steer's daily emails. They contain a load of information and great links to current relevant news. I anticipate its arrival daily.
http://www.caseyresearch.com/displayGsd.php
No disrespect, but that site looks mostly like one sided propaganda. Any sites out there with balanced views?
Define "balanced". Anti-gold? Sure. Lots of them.
Won't do you a damned bit of good.
You are either fer it or agin it.
Gotta take a stand. It's not confirmation bias if the bias is right.
I'm with Rocky, there are no balanced views. You are either in the camp where inflation greases the wheels or not.
When the FED and government talk growth, what do you think they are saying? They want people to spend money, right? Law of Economics ~ Supply and Demand. If people go purchase, demand increases and supply decreases, eventually supply decreases until supply is inelastic, then prices increase. When prices increase, we have inflation. Currently, we have deflation because people are not doing what they are supposed to do, which is buy, buy, buy. Many economist say we are having a debt deflation, but I think we are having a confidence deflation. Why should we hire an employee just to provide him/her with insurance when we have never been able to afford insurance and provide it to ourselves. I'm not working harder just to support someone outside my family.
Too late for a short story, but inflation is the grease of a Keynesianism policy, it makes the banks and elitists rich. The FED says an inflation rate of 2%-3% is acceptable. Have you ever seen an exponential curve of 3%? Eventually, it goes to the moon. Until I see Congress reinstate the Glass-Stegall Act, I am hoarding cash, gold, silver, seeds, and ammunition.
C'mon Brian, you can think for yourself, can't you?
He can, but he chooses the opposing view, hence the comment that my view is biased.
Same old story. As I say, confirmation bias does not come into play if the view being considered is the correct one.
I have post this on a 100 sites..
so I will post it here..
the sites will not give up the cash from google or yahoo
I am not sure what the subscription audience for Barrons is. It is not all that large. But there are few people who consider themselves players on either the Street or on the D.C. side who don't read it........was posted.
if you ever get linked to a WSJ ....Barrons......NYT page asking for money to read.
copy the title and post it on a google/yahoo search page a link to the page you are looking for..
it saves cash....and BS
paladin
An ounce of prevention worth a pound of paper ponzi worthless cure!!
Revealed!! Photos of Marla Singer of Zerohedge.com
http://boingboing.net/images/xeni/noisebridge_c139.jpg
Nah,
I have a feeling Marla looks more like this...
Geez Robot, you looking for a date?
I can't compete.
She's gorgeous.
You think Marla looks like Sarah Palin? I think Marla is even more right wing that Sarah. That's a good thing.
Teaser,
That's not Sarah...........LOL
the e-bay metal exchange
http://www.24hgold.com/english/buy_sell_gold_coins.aspx?co_id=0
...or here for active and closed auctions:
http://www.goldprice.org/ebay-gold-prices/
All real 'goldbugs' will welcome any break in price as an opportunity to buy below market. Any fuss about what the current price is in any of the paper currencies is missing the point. If you really believe in gold as the only valid stores of value, then any opportunity to acquire more at a discount is a bonus. If you have any other attitude towards it then your just treating it as a speculative commodity that can be used as a means to increase your quantity of paper money, in which case I'd suggest there are better options available. Gold is different - you can speculate in it for paper profit, but at some point in the next few years when paper currencies collapse (AGAIN) it will be proved to be different. The Central Bankers, the Rothschilds, the Rockefellers, etc. all know this, thats why it gets manipulated the way it does.
Marmite!? Barf.
Vegemite, now that's the real deal. Worth its weight in gold it is.
I read as far as "gold has no utility". This is so far off base that reading any further would be a waste of time.
I see your point, but I think he was just saying that gold is not quite so commodity-ish as other pure commodities. Gold has some wonderful properties but its value keeps it out of the factory. Platinum has utility and high price as well, but small quantities go a long way. Red glass is made with gold, but it takes such a small amount that the commodity aspect is minor. That's all. Don't go too far over the edge on the comment.
http://1st-glass.1st-things.com/articles/glasscolouring.html