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Hong Kong Mercantile Exchange's 1 Kilo Gold Contract To End Comex Gold Futures Trading (And "Bang The Close") Monopoly
30 years ago, Bunker Hunt, while trying to demand delivery for virtually every single silver bar in existence, and getting caught in the middle of a series of margin hikes (sound familiar), accused the Comex (as well as the CFTC and the CBOT) of changing the rules in the middle of the game (and was not too happy about it). Whether or not this allegation is valid is open to debate. We do know that "testimony would reveal that nine of the 23 Comex board members held
short contracts on 38,000,000 ounces of silver. With their 1.88 billion
dollar collective interest in having the price go down, it is easy to
see why Bunker did not view them as objective." One wonders how many short positions current Comex board members have on now. Yet by dint of being a monopoly, the Comex had and has free reign to do as it pleases: after all, where can futures investors go? Nowhere... at least until now. In precisely 9 days, on May 18, the Hong Kong Mercantile exchange will finally offer an alternative to the Comex and its alleged attempts at perpetual precious metals manipulation.
From Commodity Online:
The Hong Kong Mercantile Exchange (HKMEx) has received authorisation from the Securities and Futures Commission and will make its trading debut on May 18, 2011 with the 1-kilo gold futures contract offered in US dollars with physical delivery in Hong Kong.
The ATS authorisation grants HKMEx the right to offer market participants, through its member firms, the use of its state-of-the-art electronic platform to trade commodities. The Exchange will begin trading with at least 16 members including some of the world’s largest financial institutions as well as several well-established brokerages in Hong Kong.
“We are very excited about this historic day. It allows us to establish a liquid and vibrant international commodities exchange based in Hong Kong, linking China with the rest of Asia and the world,” said Barry Cheung, chairman of HKMEx. “Global demand for core commodities has in recent years been driven by Asia, especially China and India. However, market participants in the region have had to rely on Western exchanges for price discovery, bearing the basis risk exposure in the process. Our new platform will offer Asia a bigger say in setting global commodity prices. It will also enable market participants to more actively manage their risk exposures, using products tailored to Asian market needs.”
HKMEx’s broking members at launch include BOCI Securities Ltd, Celestial Commodities Ltd, CES Capital International Co. Ltd, Chief Commodities Ltd, ICBC International Futures Ltd, Interactive Brokers LLC, KGI Futures (Hong Kong) Ltd, MF Global Hong Kong Ltd, Morgan Stanley Hong Kong Securities Ltd, OSK Futures Hong Kong Ltd, Phillip Commodities (HK) Ltd, Tanrich Futures Ltd and TG Securities Ltd. Its three clearing members are Interactive Brokers (UK) Ltd, MF Global UK Ltd and Morgan Stanley & Co International Plc.
And while the Chinese market is far more bubbly when it comes to gold and silver purchases, it remains to be seen just how happy a gambling addicted Chinese population will take to spurious and conveniently timed margin hikes that take the air out of the next parabolic move up in gold and silver (our guess is not very).
Far more importantly, the Comex monopoly appears to be over, and going forward the exchange will have to be far more sensitive about angering broad swaths of the population using 5 consecutive margin hikes in 9 days. The new exchange will also make the now traditional "banging the close" operation (or "banging the whatever" as the May 1 15% drop from $49 to $42 in minutes demonstrated) obsolete, as traders will have options of where to route orders from the hours of 0800 HKT to 2300 HKT.
Bottom line: if Chinese demand for gold and silver is as strong as it was a week ago, and it is, the recent Comex-directed plunge in precious metals is about to the BTFDed.
From the HKMex:
HKMEx is introducing a 32 troy ounce gold futures contract useable by a wide range of market participants to execute hedging, arbitrage and other investing strategies. Moreover, the HKMEx gold futures contract has the following important characteristics designed to meet the needs of a marketplace which lacks an international price-setting mechanism in the Asian time zone:
* Secure physical delivery in Hong Kong meeting international standards
* Trading execution on an advanced and robust electronic platform
* World-class clearing functionality
* Extended Asian day trading hours to tap into global market liquidity
* Contract specifications tailored to market participants in AsiaGold is one of the world’s most important and actively traded commodities. Demand for the metal is driven by three main factors: the jewellery market, industrial manufacturing and financial investment. In addition, gold is relatively unique in that it is used as both a commodity and a monetary asset.
Although gold has a long trading history in Asia, the majority of price formation for gold is today concentrated in the North American and European markets. In recent years, the introduction of gold futures trading in Asia has tapped into latent trading demand that is primarily driven by strong economic development in China and India.
Hong Kong is historically one of the world’s leading gold centres and has a natural geographical advantage in Asia. Hong Kong’s vibrant financial infrastructure ensures access to leading market participants and deep regional and international pools of liquidity.
Trading hours for the HKMEx gold contract will extend from 0800 HKT to 2300 HKT, opening with TOCOM in Japan and encompassing the London Bullion Market Association AM Fixing, the opening of COMEX, and the LBMA PM Fixing. The HKMEx opening auction will run from 0730 to 0800.
While gold futures trading on Asian exchanges has demonstrated significant growth, there is currently no contract that is or will likely become a regional benchmark contract for gold pricing. Without a regional benchmark, true price discovery for gold is either confined to the local in-country market or must depend on the European or North American markets. In-country markets generally restrict foreign participation and often subject it to adverse currency restrictions or tax treatment. Meanwhile, global benchmark pricing from the western hemisphere provides imperfect hedging for Asia’s trading community.
HKMEx is well positioned to address the demand of Asia’s trading community for the establishment of a gold futures contract as the regional benchmark.
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Lame Street Media.
You're fired. That's a Palin term.
That's a Trump term. You're, uh, something.
touche. You know, I was really hoping they'd run together, Trump/Palin 2012, um.. bitchez
What? Like they'd do a worse job than anyone there since the 1990s? At least we'd have some yuks and stuff. The corporate take-over would be greased and stop all this misery in transition. Complete sell out to the bible-thumpers would be easy since Trump could probably care less. I liked the Daily Show piece that was done on the Trump presidency.
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-may-5-2011/indecision-2012---indec...
Doesn't make it any less true because bobblehead said it, does it?
DaddyO
true. and your other post was insightful, so I may have misjudged you. All these recent Rush recruits got me all paranoid.
Palin should just remain a kingmaker in the Tea Party! Trump should go back to bankrupting his companies and we should find someone who is Ron Paulesque who can beat Obummer. While I like a lot of Ron Paul's positions, he's had countless years to git'r dun and hasn't, next!
DaddyO
Maybe I didn't misjudge you. You said git'r'dun. Are there more livestock than buildings in your zip code? Obama is a Goldman puppet but the lesser of the two evils we were presented with. Ron Paul is 80% right, but the other 20% is some scary shit.
watching spawn of Paul holds many clues.
That's cause I eat lunch with Larry every now and again, he fishes out in the river near my home and eats at a little BBQ joint down the road.
I'm not too much of a country bumpkin though as I had dinner last night with the CEO of DQ.
DaddyO
I love BBQ, fishing, and the country, and get out of the city when I can. My point is that saying Obummer, Lame Street Media, and Gitrdun sorta paints you as this guy:
http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/images/blpic-moran.htm
Good Pic! Not me though, I'm old as dirt and literate. Not a "morans" although I have my moments. Please tell me Obummer is not just that, a Wall St. Shill, IMHO. His time in office has been no different than "Schlamielah Bushani" to use a WB7 picture. We are saturated with a bevy of Wall St. "Made Men" with no hope for relief.
DaddyO
What would that scary shit be? Just curious...
Letting Russia, China, and Iran fill the void if we actually pulled out. Rescinding the civil rights act. You know, the little stuff.
Of course! Because our current strategies in the ME are working so well.
And if the civil rights act was rescinded, no one would serve Black people in restaurants any more... and they'd all starve!
Get a brain.
no one would serve Black people in restaurants any more... and they'd all starve! Get a brain.
you left out "moran", you fucking retard.
Had an interesting conversation with a major corporate lender that works for BOA last night. We didn't get around to discussing pm's but it's very apparent this ideology of globalism and corporatocracy is deeply entrenched in these bankers mindsets. He was thoroughly convinced the recovery has taken place and the country is rebounding. We were polar opposites when it came to the economy and macroeconomics and I shot holes through just about all of his arguments much to the benefit of reading the great material from this site.
One in particular was when I said, so if the treasury raises the debt ceiling 2 trillion like they say they will does that mean we default as a nation and don't you think that is bad? He said "no, not at all. If we didn't raise it that would mean default and that would be bad." I also asked what happens to the recovery when QE2 runs out next month, given the fact that pimco has not only dumped all of our bonds but matter of fact went short and china said they are looking into dumping 2/3'rds of their holdings? Who is left to buy when the fed stops? He replied, "The fed will continue to buy and others will as well. It's not as bad as I am making it out to be. A lot of companies are sitting on piles of cash and are just now starting to use it and are hiring now." We also talked about the mortgage crisis, robo signing and BOA's role in the crisis.
It was a very good talk and we had a few spectators listening to us(we were at a mutual friends party) and I could tell I was making him a tad bit squeamish with the depth of what I knew. I wasn't really attacking him but rather making subtle points that no one could misconstrue since it was a friendly gathering.:)
It disturbs me for one of two possible reasons, one either he knows this country is fucked and he is doing everything in his power to convince anyone who will listen otherwise since he deals with large corporate lending and that is their lifesource. Or two, he actually believes the bullshit he was arguing for (including that robo signing and BOA's role wasn't 'that' criminal, he actually tried to pin the blame on the suckers, although he didn't use that phrase, whom they were targeting with their predatory lending practices which I called him out on. I also made note of the affluent home owners in upscale communities that squat and/or walk away from their homes but it is the middle and lower class that are the "moral hazard" by not paying their mortgage. He changed subjects.) and he will soon come to a forgone conclusion that both his and his employers long time run on scamming the ignorant and enslaving populations with debt is soon coming to an end.
He ended with shaking my hand saying don't worry it's not as bad as I think it is. To which my reply was, "I guess we will both find out soon."
Oh how I love to just run into someone that is willing to discuss economics and finance.
That corporate cash on THE sidelines is Otten locked as collateral for their outstanding loans.
I had THE Same discussion à while back, and THE banker i talked to wasn't That optimistic. Hè really expected à mega crash in THE NeXT 3 years.
Having sold his heart and soul to the corporation he can do nothing but spout their trash. Any ghetto dweller will tell you the pimp and the pusher never talk down their line of work.
not inherently true. Any ghetto dweller will tell you they would have rather grown up in a rich family, gone to college, and be a bankster. If I was less greedy, I would have liked to be a teacher.
Is he a ZH reader ?
Can you make him become one and pull him over to the rebel camp ?
Away from Emperor Palpatine and his evil minions ?
We run into each other here and there at mutual gatherings but this was our first financial discussion, he usually doesn't talk about his work to anyone we both know. No nothing I could say would convince him otherwise. He was strong in his stance, whether it was real or whether he had to I don't know yet. By the time we run into each other again I'm pretty sure some major financial things would have taken place by then but I'm sure it will still make for a good convo. I've come to find out most of these affluent college indoctrinated individuals are damn near impossible to sway. They made their living by doing what they were told and by what they've learned, it's in all the text books and they teach this shit when you go for your CFP. This whole fucking system from the top down including these schools needs to be redone for any meaningful change to take place. They pay the professors to preach their propaganda on how they want the system to work and pay them handsomely to maintain it.
Thanks for your comprehensive answer.
Sounds to me like your friend is a robot, not being capable of thinking outside the box.
These tie wearers never get into contact with the real world, they have no street cred.
Day in and day out they stare at their charts and graphs and tables, talking about price/earnings ratio, value at risk and EBITDA.
But they never see the actual people behind the numbers.
That's what I call sociopathic behaviour.
Bernanke is no different. Too intellectual, too number-fixated for his job and therefore clueless.
America's problems are of structural nature, they cannot be solved with the printing press.
Bring back manufacturing and blue-collar work.
in the same way that lawyers represent the LAW and not their clients, financialists serve their "truths" and are rewarded, and disposed of, accordingly.
there are parallel "realities" in place, as any time spent re-searching can inform the seeker of wider truths - those schooled in their "professions" are given pieces of the truth(s) and will act accordingly - look at those government tools raking in the monies for selling out their "countrymen" - they know more of the plan than the average person, and they play their roles accordingly, believing themselves to be "special" as they're in on the story even though, from the point of view of those "above" them, they are also useless tools to be discarded when the time comes.
there is a reason the various "educational institutes" stick together, hire each other, etc. - they have a piece of the story to play, and prefer to be around others with the same "pieces" for consistency (and, obviously, ego).
most people's minds are taught to think in dualities, left/right, good/bad, etc. - and group nationstates accordingly, East vs. West, Xtian vs. "terrorists," etc. - ponder rearranging the story towards hierarchies, top/bottom - what if "they" were more in collusion globally? what if the perception of separate, competing nationstates was just another red team/blue team distraction. . .
Correct. Plus their three weeks vacation time is not spent surfing the net analyzing the FRBNY, The City, War of 1812, 9-11, etc. Specialization of labor has most people compartmentalized. My BOA VP neighbor buys into all the hype. Clueless.
Huge Hear-Hear!!!
I call it a group-think-think tank!
gordengeco;
Your post are very enlightening. I too have a number of acquaintances in the business audit side. They do not see any of the issues that we discuss on ZH daily. It's not lack of brains or education. It is simply the blue pill, red pill analogy. For them to change their thinking a life belief system has to be discarded. For most of us unless there is a forced change, a change of view is not possible.
i went to an ivy, worked in investment banking and other shops on wall street. i can guarantee you that this corp lended buddy of yours believes every last word spilling out of his ignorant mouth. IQ has little to do with the ability to recognize the failure of the keynesian experiment. I almost couldn't believe it when I realized how much the gov was lying on all of its economic statistical releases. The guys who have been on the Street long enough to know how crooked the game is are already wearing the golden handcuffs and will not allow their minds to wander too far down the rabbit hole because it would invalidate everything they have worked for their entire lives.
If you keep having convos like that you re going to end up having some not so friendly ones and may even ruin a few relationships. I've been there.
http://slv.collective2.com
So be it as it may. I personally don't care to try and make friends with these bankers. What I do like to do is pick at their mindset. Mentally take them down roads they care not to travel down until they feel the need to change the topic. 99% like you said believe the bullshit because thats how they live, if the system crashed or changed what would they do? They're fucked because thats all they know, can't see outside the system. They literally think they are more intelligent than just about everyone else especially if they have money. It isn't until you can run circles around them verbally eith knowledge do they come to respect you(not that I give a shit) and/or talk to you. The Golf world is the same way, oddly enough the 2 go hand in hand!
I'd say your friend is either ignorant, or just lying throught his teeth. Even working for that outfit and denying everything says plenty.
I assume BOA will be sacrificed and carved up like a pig at some point, and JPM/GS will get it for pennies on the dollar (think WaMu). Countrywide sealed the deal on their ultimate destruction long ago.
JPM may, GS wont get shit. They'll delist and go private if theyre lucky enough to survive. The coming backlash against Wall St as we so called @double dip@ (we never left the first) will crush GS - they dont have the pulling power to survive this and thats why every smart employee with serious stock in the firm has been dumping at every opportunity.
I'd lay good money it was the latter :2) he believes the bullshit.
I have many similar conversations with people in elevated management in the industry. They're 95% blowhards.
That's been my experience too, sadly
It could actually be used in international trade as à way for payments without THE producer being forced to take THE dollar risk.
Of they would work with non fixed contract volume amounts.
So any amount could be put in gold .
In That way à producer says i want 200 bullion for the transaction, the buyer takes his own currency risk as Does THE seller.
THE Chinese have been complaining about dollar volality for to long now.
The new kid on the block is certainly no better than crony cap. Watch that assay.
May 18 looks like it is becoming an important day to watch.
I doubt this news is going to faze Uncle Gorilla's stranglehold on the gold market via the COMEX. It will take years for the contract volume in HK to build up to meaningful proportions. In the meantime, the COMEX games will continue as usual.
Unless they already have convinced asian interests who have been trading on CME and COMEX that they will be treated better in the East. In which case we would see a relatively quick shift of trading volumn toward asia. Time will tell.
By convince, you mean they have offered high volume traders to trade commission free for an extended period of time. That's how you build up critical mass.
No mention of an alternative venue for silver - looks like the GSR could get very wide again
While your point that the COMEX games will continue rings true, the HKMEx article said nothing about margin size. That said, the margin size will have some effect on who and how many play in HK and that will in turn have some affect on the COMEX.
DaddyO
Well, this is obviously bullish for silver.
As is everything under the heavens.
when people accidentally double post, it should automatically default to your avatar.
It should be the defailt avatar, instead of the bag
true. and the required avatar for the first 6 months. That way we can use the term boobs to differentiate new posters. fucking great name, btw
+ on the name too
Isn't it easier to manipulate the comex when the volume is lower, so won't this actually aid manipulation?
Laws? hahahaha we spit on your laws......
http://news.silverseek.com/SilverSeek/1304873055.php
This is very bullish for gold and silver. And very shitty for USD.
This is very bullish for gold and silver. And very bearish for USD.
This is very bullish for gold and silver. And very bearish for USD.
3 posts are normally a bit much but i like your tits so no complaints
Won't make a hill of beans difference. HK be closed most of the US day.
Plenty of time for crimes to be committed.
A very, very nice place for Mainland money fleeing the stagflation games elsewhere.
If there are other exchanges (some with sizable volume), how is Comex a monopoly?
Though cannot say if this will mitigate the manipulation of the PM market, I think that this market will serve the Asian interests as opposed to our own. They cannot fight us directly in war yet but with this market they can command our capital much better, I would be suprised if they did not choose to do so.
yay! spot on, analysis, tyler!
at first i, too thought: why in U$D's?
then: no, that's right, what better place for the asian gamblers, who are in a league of their own as far as i can tell, to shit on dollars, the global currency. now i understand why they recently outlawed this trade in vietNam.
plus, china = #1 gold producer. in spite of what Robo_T thinks of them...
what will they do with all the dollars? buy silver on the crimex! food, copper, lumber, coal.
plus, if americans take delivery, they can give us our tungsten back!
Asia markets opening in 1 minutes will Silver be up or down on current spot of 35.82 before NY opens?
Silver is very hard to time, especially in the short term. But what is a little easier to predict is where the fiat currencies are going in the medium term.
Put me down for .10 on down.
I think if this is a B wave that it could be up for a while. Bob Hoye thinks it might go back to the high forties and become another once in a lifetime short.
Get your little piece of history........
http://cgi.ebay.com/GERMANY-1923-3-MILLION-CURRENCY-NOTE-AU-3520A-/15059...
http://cgi.ebay.com/GERMANY-1923-20-MILLION-MARK-CURRENCY-NOTE-CUF-3517A...
http://cgi.ebay.de/6656-Westfalen-1-Billion-Mark-/390293627283?pt=M%C3%B...
That's a trillion, for you Anglo Saxons, git your Trillion Mark Coin.
Hong Kong here we come...
...CME/Crimex there she blows!!!
Gold down
Silver down
Crude down
ES futures up
All the hysteria articles discussed this weekend are having no impact whatsoever.
Probably another good day for retail stocks on Monday.
And for all your empty words, you are STILL a loser.
lol
Robot Tedium - on the 3rd page of the other PM thread you claimed Gold and Silver prices were collapsing ...on the 1st page of the same thread you offered a list of dealers with the words "lock in these low prices now"
can you make a prediction without sticking both feet in your mouth?
Don't listen to tmos, RT, he's just pissed he gauged the unwashed masses attitudes wrong for so long. As did I.
Coulda made a fortune listening to Wanger 18 months ago.
Robo you sound under thirty.
You would have the time of your life with some hot thirty something and forty something cougars. It would be death by snoo snoo if you let it.
There is more to life than trading.
Set up a profile on the top three cougar dating sites. Pay for full membership. Must have a face pic available and just be honest and hunble. You dont have to make your face pic publicly available but available on request. Set up on ashley madison also.
I wish i had known about cougars when i was your age. It is really fun to get tired of pussy. You can have as much as you want as long as you are honest, modest, and make your face pic freely available. Also height weight proportionate.
My wife and I are average mid forties and even we get lucky with the young couples and young girls more than I would have expected.
man, troll, you are a freak. Right on, man.
Nice call, robo.
Liquidity is going to go somewhere (at least until June 30).
Of course after 6/30, everything correlates to -1 but hey, party on, Garth!
<sarcasm/off>
Some one once said. "Planning is everything we do, in between lifes real decisions."
So do I short XAG in the 35's, or go long between 31 and 32?
I think it's time to rotate out of paper PMs, and suck up some cheap RE names.
Don't feel a big drop in the Ponzi just yet.
I'm light in AVL, having traded it from 5.50 to 10.10. Hope it drops back to a major support at 6.72.
Will HELOC the house for it if it drops below 6. Just look at MCP, and subtract the Ponzi premium.
A friend of mine inquired about buying silver today.
I told him he should allocate no more than 10% of his liquid holdings, and start dollar cost averaging with weekly purchases starting today, and ending in late July.
No purchases if the spot price goes above $40. I gave him my prediction that silver is likely to trade between $30 - $40 the rest of the summer until the technical damage is repaired.
That seems like sound advice. I'm projecting a range trade in Eur & Aud for the mid term. The (SPX looks sideways as well mid term). London (gbp) is really a sweet trade if Merve the Swerve and his BoE camp can deal with Ireland, and the ECB (CLAN) .
If oil drops substantially with other commodities spx may rally from here.
Sound advice, I think. A lot of technical damage hit the miners, too.
Seems GPL is already recovering.
Good points Mynhair. Your RE idea is based on rates remaining within a certain range. I'm assuming that you have been keeping a close eye on financials and the (XLF).
Miners diversify and hedge, so just like a cheap airline, they have a cost structure that allows for price swings. They ( miners are disrupted over longer periods of time) However it opens opportunitys for M/A's. I already own miners, and XAG is a short term hedge. You can have the gravy. I'll stay tight and play a little, but trades like last week come around 2-5 times a year.
Yep, M/As, and with Canuckistan having a new gov is a plus.
AVL under 6 is definitely a 4 year hold.
I'll take a look . Thanks.
UPdate: 0:22 GMT. Apparantly There is some validity to Mynhairs comments. The RBA is moving HAWk'ish. Miners must be a bit worried! Or OVER/LEVERAGED? Good thing I'm in Australia right now! I'll by the dips and sell the tops (SHORT TERM)
RobotTrader found religion, apparently.
Let's see how long he can go without claiming that General Jim and Co should have bought $BUBBLESTOCKTKR.
he never changed, you just never got his jokes.
I convinced some folks back in August, to start dca'ing into physical Au and Ag.
But before doing so I made them study the 08 chart...
The HKMEx's regulator, Hong Kong's Securities and Futures Commission ("SFC"), has remarkable integrity and will be all over any attempted manipulation of this new market. And the SFC have the redoubtable gadfly David Webb and an army of gold-savvy, vocal speculators to keep them honest. This is going to be fun.
Is there any truth to the Bart Chilton rumor that the new HKMex will offer gold bricks in exchange for Holiday Inn Priority Club points cleared through LCH.Clearnet and the CLS Bank?
http://tradewithdave.com/?p=6291
Damn, the Wif has massive ChoicePoints. So much for building a gold house....
EU opens at 1.43? No.
ZH is wrong, again.
Jack Z/H doesn't specialize in currency trading. They are your link to the Financial & News Real World! head over to Forex Live and ask for Sean. he runs the Asian trade.
Every smart trade knew the euro was going to gap up! Continuation off the N/Y close.
Death of the CRIMEX, it is a good day.
http://silverliberationarmy.blogspot.com/
Does anybody still read these replies other than the people who post them ?
Yes.
The troll is with you always.
LMAO! Those ey/yeS were memerising! In a Chair Satan way!
Sounds real bullish for all that fake gold coming out of China!
NEWS OUT OF AUSTRALIA:
As a regular dollar-cost averager of PMs out of Australia, I've been buying gold and silver from the Perth Mint for years.
For the first time ever the Perth Mint is out of 100 ounce silver bars and doesn't know when they'll be available. This is occurring at the very same time when the silver price has been smashed and supply should be everywhere (supply and demand - falling price should be surplus supply).
What I suspect is that the COMEX is grabbing silver supply from marginal overseas suppliers, dumping on spot to support the shorts, and hoping that the collapse in the price will discourage longs and shake silver out of weak hands, so they can re-arm later if supply is squeezed again.
It is absolutely ridiculous that during a price collapse there is ZERO supply of 100 ounce silver bars from one of the world's largest mints. Ridiculous.
Totally agree. What's the availability for alternatives (like 10 oz bars or palladium)?
I've been lucky with local shops so far but sense it will get tighter everywhere very soon.
Thanks for the update.
You notice the PM trolls like Math Man never comment on this type of information which contradicts their views?
Retail market silver is not very reliable as a shortage indicator. Is thete any accurate measure of silver shot availability? If hoarders were making silver shot hard to find and competing with jewelers for the available supply that would be meaningful.
The Perth Mint has twice the market share of the COMEX. They are, as such, and extremely reliable indicator of supply/demand conditions.
Retail shortage of small bars and medallions is often not a silver shortage in general but due to fabrication issues. The best way to look for a general shortage is silver shot. Thst is wholesale silver in easily meltable form for jewely manufacture. I dont know a good way to check for supply shortages unless you know a major silver jewelry fabricator.
We notice it constantly. It's what proves their intent and their purpose for being here.
The recently introduced (May 1st, I believe) Chase fiat-settled PM futures products in Singapore now will be able to be challenged with a physically-settled product. Perhaps the overnight control won't be able to be used for manipulation as it was last week. Also my calculation is that the HK trading closes at the same time as the PM London Fix. This is certainly going to color the scene in hues that have not been previously seen.
Thank you Gentlemen. Both comments duely noted. ( Wallygator and Karma is King).
Take heart y'all. According to Ed Steer of Casey's, Silver went into quite serious backwardization at Friday's close. Only next month is in minimally marginal contango. All the other months are backwardizing themselves (new expression!). With that situation and the new HK operation, any bleakness at this juncture will be short-lived.
Backwardation may be short lived but can resolve itself with falling spot prices.
What if it were huge producer hedging to lock in prices causing the backwardation? Is there any way to prove or disprove it?
this changes absolutely nothing. now the world banks (J.P. Morgan, et. all) have yet another market to manipulate.
Local delivery in Hong Kong. Right.
Like Pizza.
Delivery, schmivley. The guys who are going to get the trades are the guys who have the lowest margin and rates.
Wait until they offer silver, bitchez.
Us Mint sales chart 1990-2011 http://i52.tinypic.com/33axs1i.png
PMs are vastly oversold. The short-covering rally has to occur for any good reason that you choose. An impetus to overshoot it's potential occurs on May 18th. I choose not to be pessimistic.
Au contaire. Short covering is a (BIT) beyond.
That Yuan fixing is Interesting. Just a few hours ago. ( Julia Jillard could not ballance her personal checkbook.) At least I can sort of get a tan.
free markets always seem to navigate a passage way through the relentless tinkering of their human masters.
I'm looking for you!
Don't be fooled by love songs and lollipops.
The two markets won't diverge; they will converge by arbitrage. If the same parties control both exchanges, then the arbitrage will have zero effect on price discovery.
The two markets won't diverge; they will converge by arbitrage. If the same parties control both exchanges, then the arbitrage will have zero effect on price discovery.
DIVERGENCE IS YOUR/SAVING GRACE.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmQ_1sXZJxI
In London The EUR/GBP is your mark. That trade will effect all commodity trades.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5_57PF7HwM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkmvwCpcZlM
So glad so far that I bailed on the EUR.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzVM6Q4YwAA&feature=related
This one is called 'The Dress'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i95DUucUFrI&feature=related
1. If silver were to appreciate tremendously in price, then it would be used less and less in industry which would increase supply and decrease demand. That is why silver isn't listed on the Fed's balance sheet, it is a commodity, not money.
2. What is all this nonsense about the gold-silver ratio? It is not scientific. The prices were previously fixed, thus arbitrary.
3. You don't need a gold standard to create sound money. That could be created through a balanced budget amendment. The notion that a tumbling dollar could be saved by gold, well, it could also be saved by fiscal responsibility.
4. The public demands easy money. Always has, always will.
5. You would rather be on the side of the people (whom 40m are on food stamps) as opposed to the banks who own gold, write the rules of the game, just raped the population and still give the president orders? I guess you like underdogs, :)
In conclusion. Gold is the smarter play over silver but it is still incredibly uncertain. The game is fixed. Hedge yourself for all scenarios.
Points 3. & 4. are contradictory! Face it, there's no political will to produce a balanced budget amendment -- if, by some miracle, the Decepticrats go along with it, you can pretty much guarantee that it will NOT be implemented BEFORE the Great Implosion!
Fiscal responsibility?? Now you're being positively delusional!
If you hedge yourself vs all scenarios, you will only earn risk free rate - hedging cost!
A investment approach is to buy physical coin/bar and store at your own secert location. Then you will earn high capital gain on longer horizon. You get a good sortino ratio over it.
In India and Pakistan 1 KILO and 50 and 100 TOLA Gold Contracts are available in Rupees Since many years!
End to COMEX Gold futures no way...
Why not give your mother $66,000,000 for this mother's day, after all she put up with you.
Here's how
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is a spreadsheet, created by a member at Breakpoint Trades, modified by me with some stats on the lower left.
Since 1995, there were 140 long entries (and of course 140 closing sells)
there were 74 short sells (and of course 74 buy to cover)
The average calender day trade period was just under 28 days
If using ULPIX Profunds 2X long, and URPIX Profunds 2X short, which can only be opened or closed at end of day--
$10,000 turns into $66,000,000 (compounding the earnings)
But if you "miss" and can't get the order to your broker on the signal day, and instead you buy or sell the next day, then the performance drops terribly, to a shabby $49,000,000. :-)
Interesting?
Check out the data here:
http://oahutrading.blogspot.com/
So what will happen when the American exchanges raise margins and the Asian exhcanges don't? Will that present an arbitrage opportunity? Will there emerge a price differential?
I'm beginning to wonder what the (unexpected) consequences will be.
This is a good development, but I fail to see how this prevents criminals like JPM, who can create unlimited fiat, fake, fraud, fiction, fantasy, fractional-reserve toilet-paper monopoly money at zero cost... and drive commodity prices whichever way they please.
The only solution to the predators-that-be stealing everyone else blind... is to end central banks, end fiat money, end debt money, end paper money, and most importantly end all fractional reserve practices.
Look at the Margins of indian and Pakistani Exchanges they're around 10-11% and daily margin changes according to price volatility .. different exchanges have different margin calculations .. how CME is rising, arent they following their risk management methodology?
please let me know about that
Now everyone is asking the Government to "create jobs", well that is hardly the real issue....don't get me wrong, the lack of jobs is a serious symptom. What needs to happen is we need to legislate to remove lobbying and gifts, and high paid jobs after the politician leave politics. Then we need to elect and train our leaders into understanding that a wealthy healthy economy is created by building products that people need to buy, education, enforcement of contract law so that hard work and innovation pay off, control of the money supply so that planning and saving pay off, and speaking a common language and by that I mean English, not greed. Pull back 90% of Americans working for the Gov abroad and train them in building and managing the factories that will rebuild America. Slash 40% of all Government programs and jobs, and train them in those same factories. The only way to get rid of the long training of "gov work" is to get pushed into real actual make something with your hands and your brain work.
It is really that simple. The hard part is scraping away the vampire squid.
http://oahutrading.blogspot.com/2011/05/jobs-and-wealth-what-really-make...
Morning in America. A new day is dawning for all of us.
Silver currently @ $37.44 +6.01 % !
Grab your mug of ambrosial coffee and bring out a toast to the Manhattan Mafia.
After a moment of consternation "Da Bullz" have collectively decided not to be intimidated.
Instead they've opted for just trampling all over "Bennie & Blythe" in a stampede of epic proportions.
No one can stop us.
Not even the Manhattan Mafia !
We are the Hunt Brothers.
We're gonna hunt the paper ponzi thieves down.
We are going to do the job that law enforcement failed to do.
You can't eat silver, during Hyperinflation it has no use and is useless, only gold will be good. You wont be able to buy anything with silver because it really is just a commodity.......
Seems if I walked around with silver in coin or measureable form back then I could have bought stuff, without the use of a wheelbarrow.
Now I agree that gold is the king of PM, it cannot be beat. Silver however is not too shabby in second place and actually may benefit by being not so value dense. Seems history saw it as a PM even though it is also a commodity and consumed.
I own gold in greater $ quantity than silver but both I think are useful during any chaotic time and can be converted into essentials or other hard assets/possesion allowing you take advantage of them.
I do get suspicious whenever i run across articles specifically designed to denigrate silver and on occassion given some form of respectability because of the site it is on. I would certainly be taking a wider and deeper view of issues than take the advice of a single site on something. Needless to say that those saying silver holders will be crying when HI comes along maybe being just a little intellectually dishonest.
beware
If gold has now been transformed from a commodity into a global reserve currency and if the CLS Bank is not subject to Dodd Frank requirements, then why would the new HKMex choose to clear through LCH.Clearnet unless it was a requirement for CFTC approval? In other words, if the plan is to leverage the wealth of China's population as they purchase gold as their government sells Treasuries, then it would seem that this is being facilitated by what will net out as a massive fee to LCH.Clearnet and huge leverage via the CLS Bank.
If that theory is correct, then HKMex isn't a precious metals exchange, it's a foreign currency exchange where what the U.S. Treasury's description of risk-free via the "physical exchange of currency" is occuring via the physical exchange of gold and the commensurate unregulated leverage thereof.
If the Chinese, Russia and India want more gold, then they're going to have to pay the City of London a fee to get it.
http://tradewithdave.com/?p=6291
Dave Harrison
www.tradewithdave.com
A lot of zero hedgers must be hurting if they had taken the advice to buy silver, ouch!
Zerohedge, why so mum on the massive silver meltdown?
Nothing has molten down.
Not a single ounce has been taken from us.
If prices are abitrarily manipulated up and down with approval of the CRIMEX, then they become pretty meaningless, don't they ?
Silver, when measured in units of Jew-confetti, may have come down, but only if you fall for the siren voices of the paper silver salesmen.
Paper silver is worthless, it's no silver at all.
Have they been mum? I don't think so, I think it has been a central topic of discussion.
Depends on when people bought in as well. Many here have been in pre $20 and essentially missed the opportunity to take a profit then start again. However many have it is a hold and forget insurance along with gold.
The same can be said of stocks, in a big bubble driven up on no fundamental apart from BB free money pumping and will drop ten times as fast if the tap is turned off.
The Rothschilds are Ashkenazi Jews.
Their combined fortune is estimated at $1.3 trillion.
Their origins are in Frankfurt am Main.
They are megalomaniac zionists, who think that the world is theirs.
And we are expected to be their cattle.
Which of course we won't accept.
Remember during the $6 drop in silver (in 10 minutes) how the electronic futures went down? I do. The inside boys pulled the plug so you couldn't get orders in...(sort of like how the plug was pulled on GATA just as their testimony to Congress began). Oh, you could call the desk...and listen to it ring for 10 minutes. So how does having the same scummy players on this different team help provide transparency in the market?
Meth you sound just like the spin doctors on MSM. Who pays you?
Did you forget that last Friday it was stated that over 85% of SLV flipped?
SLV crashed and was propped up you dick, they will not let free market reign.
Comments by Turk that silver will recover in a few weeks, I don't think it will happen nearly that fast.
http://goldandsilverlinings.com/?p=919