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House Democrats Reject Tax Cut Deal
Per Ben Smith of Politico, the House Democratic caucus has just voted to reject the tax deal. Posturing or the real deal? Since the passage of this vote was re-priced into the market in the past three weeks pretty much every day, we expect the failure of the vote will now be priced in even more, sending the Dow (as usual the government has still to discover the S&P) to fresh 2010 highs, now that the market flips the "bad news is good news" switch.
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Wow.....look at the reaction....Yawwnnn
HFT's are illiterate, and insiders sold out long ago.
I wouldn't be surprised to see the hackers attack the REAL beast- Wall Street...
After all, the dirty money that funds the corrupt in power comes from downtown.
The number after "DJIA" in my streamer window is red. Red? What does that mean? Someone make it stop - print some money, or something.
Not to worry Escape. They´ll print the money!
<s>Printing more money is better than expected! This is great news for the market and it is time to buy more stocks.</s>
Now just hold there a darn minute...On 60 Minutes, Helicopter said he is NOT printing money.
QE1 = printing money
QE2 = NOT printing money
Any questions? Oh, and he's 100% sure he can control inflation.
Hum, another, Surprize, like the Irish Labour party neg vote, suddenly the USA Labour (Demos) do 'the same' .....an abrupt turnaround...
but, yes...Yawwnn?
why is that?
no reaction? is USA "fix" in place, just a provincial local pork-barrel Xmas gift?, if suddenly its OK, approved after all...a pretend 'nope'...
Actually, now the vote won't be passed because of all the reactions, everything will go for the worst.
The reasone why Obama and America needed that tax cut is this:
We'll have inflation = If you have a lot of money, what do you do in this case? = You get your money OUT of the country!
The tax cut was to KEEP THE MONEY IN AMERICA!
C'mon, you don't really believe it was that simple?
The sticking point was the cut for the mega-wealthy (they'll compromise for the <$1M per year crowd, whose money largely feeds consumption in the middle class). Do you really think the rich are limited to keeping their money here? What's gonna drive that--their Patriotism? Otherwise, they're simply playing the Bernank Put . . .
Inflation worries? Take that up with the Fed and Co.
Retention of the Bush tax cut(s), along with the other pork, is just Political Eyewash. Can't wait to see how the Decepticrats try to spin NOT extending the 13 month's of anti-riot payments to the 99'ers -- fun times ahead!
Someone didn't get paid off. Or maybe they're unhappy with their renumeration and are looking for a bonus.
This is anecdotal ... but I am on a private mail list with about 10+ folks ... about 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 democrat, republican, libertarian across a range of demographics. We don't always agree but folks are typically intelligent and cordial regarding their opinion. Pretty much the entire left leaning body is *pissed* Obama rolled over so easy. For the left leaning, tax cuts for the wealthy is a huge, huge issue that gets the bases blood pressure up quickly. Curiously on the right, folks are split as the tax cuts are essentially unfunded and make the deficit worse. This is a drum that I beat on regularly with the list (cut taxes AND cut spending otherwise I don’t want to hear it).
For an issue this important to the elected politicos, this might be survival mode with regards to their base. What I am saying is that even though the big donors say pass it, they are bucking because survival comes first.
This doesn't mean there won't be more dealing going on … could be part of the show.
Oh, and I suck at reading political events, so again this is purely anecdotal.
Cooter
The newer and less powerful Congressional Critters love these kinds of divisive issues because it takes some power away from the leadership and moves it into the hands of those junior Critters who wish to leverage their dissension into a seat on a powerful committee or something else they want moved through Congress. Of course if they don't strike their deal quick enough someone else will and then they're locked out and severely punished by the leadership they were bucking.
Ultimately they will sell their vote because the only way to make waves in Congress is to join the club. Unfortunately this means they eventually are corrupted by the process. Very few have survived very long in the cesspool without becoming dirty. Ron Paul is one of the few exceptions, though even he plays the game expertly.
If you are looking for tax cuts and reduced spending, you will never get your tax cuts.
The system is going to have to crash before people realize Austrian economics is the answer.
The game of goalposts around the center line is too ingrained in our Congressman for them ever to hit the reset button manually.
It is good news for bond prices, meaning that the USDJPY can relax a little bit. Expect the pair to come off as yields drop...if this is the real deal and not some political sideshow.
?;
No tax cuts without corresponding spending cuts. It isn't often I agree with Democrats!
Cooter
but they dont want spending cuts...they just dont want the tax cuts
Not raising the taxes (Bush levels of taxation versus Clinton tax rates) is NOT a fucking TAX CUT.
It is when its all borrowed money.
No, it's not - because it's not The Governmnet's freaking money to start with.
40% spending cuts are needed.
Ding ding ding! We have a winner!
All this political theatre is about keeping the spending cut option off the table.
Law 31: Control the options
http://www2.tech.purdue.edu/cg/courses/cgt411/covey/48_laws_of_power.htm
Bit of trivia for you old timers. Who was the last president to submit a budget which was *less* than the previous years presidential budget.
This says much about the "conservative" republican party.
Cooter
Beats me. I'll say Eisenhower or Kennedy.
Eisenhower is correct. I got my data from here:
http://federal-budget.findthebest.com/
Cooter
Carter I think.
I'll take "Who is not a Muslim" for 4.6 trillion Alex.
Where did you hear about demands for matching spending cuts from the Dems? Just pulled from your ass?
I don't mean to be an ass, but where did you conjure the the critical issue of matching from?
It seems to come fully formed outta nowhere as an indictment. Cuts would make the greatest of sense, but the notion of some kind of off-setting mechanism necessarily defined as a "match" would not seem inherent to the question of revenue generation per se.
Gee what a surprise dems want to steal more of your money to spend on whales in the pacific, or maybe healthcare for the elderly (oops costs keep going up), etc.
I think it's only fair to acknowledge that it will be used to slow accumulation of net debt.
This is strongly bullish.
It means we have another tax cut deal coming up in the near future (once the bill has undergone a significant amount of window dressing, that is).
I kind of get the feeling that this is all just play acting to reinforce the idea that Republicans represent the interests of the wealthy and the Democrats are fighting for the common man. Just to make sure we still believe there's actually a difference between these two parties.
One party dearie - corporate -
Bernanke will threaten with QE 3 any second now
I'm sure Obama will just threaten another recession.
Bush: "Pass the PATRIOT Act or there will be another terrorist strike"
Obama: "Pass my tax cut or there will be another recession"
Exactly!
+1
I honestly think they are reaching a point where it is just too much, either way they want to slice it. It's like when a boa has prey all coiled up and is squeezing the life out of it. The prey makes small movements so its lungs can take another small gasp of air. After a while, there is no more room to make even the smallest movement and it suffocates. Same thing going on here... it just needs to be recognized.
I am curious if this will stop the unemployment extensions.
It will. UI is part of the deal.
Wheres Jack Abramoff when you need him...
I bet the next vote is the online gambling...that is the most important item right now...Its Harry Reids retirement fund...so what about Ireland
What a crock of shit puppet theater!
"tax deal could yield millions of jobs"
Isn't this an extension of Bush cuts? Where are the f^%##^ jobs now?
Empty threats from an empty puppet.
They're a joke, Democrats and
Republicans alike. Lucky I own
'em, though
moldy
By Joe I think he's got it !
Excellent point !!!
Indeed, I think you have hit on the dumbest damn thing said all week...and it was said by...none other than...our fearless leader.
Down the cosmic bunny hole I tumble once again.
Yes keeping the same policy and extending it will mean BILLIONS of jobs Im sure! Why not say it! We're down the rabbit hole to hell where anything that is said means nothing, say whatever!
Does this mean the Democrats are throwing Obama under the bus?
No, it means they want more for you
than free donuts and coffee since I
am getting a Ferrari.
Gawd I hope so.
This is a complete stunt. This is too allow for democrats to assauge the hardcore liberal base by pretending and more importantly this is an effort to make President Obama look like he is battling his own party and score him some brownie points.
This is all a setup to have the President appeal more to the independents/center because there is absolutely no chance that he can win in 2012. They evidently believe this trickery will turn the tide in his favor. This vote will pass and there is no chance the Republicans & Democrats will not revert to their favorite past time.
And that is extend, pretend, kick the can and solve both problems with debt. Everybody wins. Besides who needs to worry about tax revenues when The Bernank can just create money out of thin air.
Yep, complete posturing. There is no way in hell this thing isn't going through and the market knows it as well. Complete bullshit.
Thank God, Wanker, my Mexican gardener has his
eye on a shiny new lawnmower to be
purchased with his share of the loot.
assuagement....OK
Harry, please stop sucking Anthony Weiner's weiner. It's Joe Kernan's turn!
Mr. HW,
If the following article fits your meme,
http://noir.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a4ntomOMxHOM&pos=2
then why do we need tax cuts?
It’s a Mad, Mad, Mad World, 1963
Background: Jim Bachus (Thurston Howell in Gilligan) plays Tyler Fitzgerald, a wealthy, drunken playboy who get talked into flying two bumbling buddies to Santa Rosita in a mad dash for stolen money. As soon as they are in the air, Mr. Fitzgerald orders a terrified Benji (Buddy Hackett) to fly the plane so he can go in the back to get liquor.
Scene:
Mr. Fitzgerald: “Now all you have to do is just sit here, and you just grab the wheel like this, see? There you go, you’re flying, you’re a natural old boy. Now I’m going in back and mix us up an ‘Old Fashioned’ like dear old Dad used to make!”
Benji : “But Mr. Fitzgerald! But SIR! What if something happens?”
Mr. Fitzgerald: “Don’t be silly. What can happen to an ‘Old Fashioned’?
It’s a Mad, Mad, Mad World, 2010
Scene:
Bernanke: “Now Timmy, taxes may be going up, and our friends at JPM and Goldman must have their bonuses! So all you have to do is just sit here and keep clicking ‘print’, see? There you go, you’re a natural old boy. Now I’m going in the back and mix us up some inflation like dear old G. William Miller used to make”
Timmah: “But Mr. Bernanke! But SIR! What if something happens?”
Bernanke: “Don’t be silly. What can happen to a bonus?”
A great movie!
If you did not see Olbermann' rant, it is worth a look. This appears to be the straw that broke the camel's back with many Obama supporters. They are talking about throwing him under the bus in 2012. Obama must at least make the public perceive that this is a Republican initiative to soothe these people.
So this is kabuki theatre.
Tax Increase = Tax Cut.
Blame the Republicans / Ignore the $120 Billon in Democratic spending attached to the bill.
Am I reading the huffington post?
Republicans should force massive tax cuts in order to force the democratic party to choose what and where to make massive budget cuts.
so your thugs don't have the sack to man up, wow what a surprise.
Another baby always crying for his but not willing to work for it.
No surprise you have to be told where you are.
lame
Actually karzai, I think bigk is on to something.
If the Rs propose BIG tax cuts and can get them through (a big if), then it would force the Ds to either:
-- cut spending BIG
-- run up the deficit BIG
Naturally they would NOT cut spending, although they should. And, maybe, the American people would take note. Smaller government is what almost all of us here at ZH want, right? So cut taxes and see if we can force .gov to get smaller via spending less.
If it does not work out, then hyperinflation just comes a little sooner. Prepare...
How do you define big? I mean we're already past the trillion $ mark. That would be something like $1,000,000,000,000.00 for those who need to see it. What is the meaning of numbers at this point? We passed "BIG" sometime back in the 1980's and never looked back, apart from some purely accidental "surpluses" due to the tech boom fraud in the 90's.
For the one millionth twenty first time ;-)
They will...shrink government, cut taxes and allow the people to prosper...voluntarily or otherwise.
feed a cold, starve a spendaholic like federal government.
politicians spend your money for political return, not an economic return.
Yep. I'm at the Huffington Post.
Eliminate income tax on all wage-earners grossing less than $100K/year.
Now THAT would be a Republican tax-cut I could get behind.
Right. Because we need less people in this country with skin in the tax game. Sure, that'll work.
I was being glib.
Nothing will work. Debt/deficit is very much a game to ensure the proper people are in control.
The problem is Hamilton's (and Madison's) very conception of how government should operate. One of its primary reasons for existence is to pay the tithe to the aristocracy.
For what it's worth: the folks who have the least are also the least likely to vote, so there's a little bit of justice there.
How about the gov get the fuck out of the way so we can create more 100k jobs?
Uh, huh? And when have the Republicans EVER forced massive budget cuts because they cut taxes?
Answer: never.
Yep. 100% correct.
And just to show that the Reps mean business about cutting spending, they just put the Prince of Pork in charge of the Appropriations Committee.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1210/46170.html
Oink, Oink Repigs.
Way to go.
Seen it...Upton as chair of energy & commerce too. And I'm pissed.
Ear marks are used as bribes and should be banned. Period.
Everyone has some damn sob story about their district to cloak themselves in as they suck us deeper into the abyss.
Thanks for bringing it up...while we're at it...maybe we should give a shout out to all the 222 companies that have been granted waivers from that piece of shit ObamaCare legislation.
"As for Universal Orlando, a spokesman defended the waiver in an email on Monday evening.
The new legislation would have left our part-time workers without their medical coverage," said Tom Schroder of Universal Orlando Public Relations."
Fucking brilliant law writing there Pelosi...but I prefer my fascism straight up with no chaser, so back to you Mr.Schroder...can you tell me what the ramifications of ObamaCare would mean to low income wage earners that work for your company without the waiver?
"We sought the waiver so that we could continue to provide them with the coverage they need and deserve," Schroder added."
http://blogs.ajc.com/jamie-dupree-washington-insider/2010/12/07/more-health-waivers/
The first order of business is to kill this mutant baby in it's crib.
One final display of relevance, on the part of Ms. Pelosi; the last mine to be deployed, before the Grand Old ( Hostage-Taking ) Party assumes control of the purse strings of government. The ball is now back in Barry's court -- but this time, he will be better served by wearing face protector when he sets the pick and roll against Nancy, Barney and the rest of the intransigent House players.
"First she has to pass the bill so we can find out what's in it"..Right Nancy?
+1
Nancy channels the liberal subconscious, and utilizes automatic writing for all Democrat House bills. When Steny wakes her from her trance, the vote can then be taken; since the membership has already been "read," why engage in such a redundant an errand as reading content ? Maligned by Republicans as a parlor trick, channeling and auto-writing has proven effective with the Democrat House majority, to-date. The liberal mind is an easy read.
What happened to Obama's website that was going to post every bill in its entirety so the public could know whats going on in congress? Transparency? Some more bullshit.
In the mean time...as everyone was consumed with CableGate...and whether Michelle Obama installed nineteen Christmas trees in the WH...money was really being pissed away elsewhere;
The measure passed over Republican protests that it still spends too much money and that it caps an unprecedented collapse of the federal budget process in which not a single one of the 12 annual spending bills has yet passed Congress.
>>>Ten of 12 House bills have not even been made public.<<<"
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/world_us/20101209_House_Democrats_pass_key_budget_bill.html
Most transparent government...evaaah.
WTF happened to PAY-GO? Dems call for paygo and then violate it with the very next bill and never to be heard from again.
Sleight of hand sans sleight. Just sloppy arrogant magicians in DC.
Yada yada, buy the dip....long twinkies
No, it's buy the fucking dip you fucking moron, did you not hear a fucking word I said?:-)
+1227.35
If the rest of you want to "supersize"
it for free all next year, you'd better
not let Nancy balk over my red Ferrari.
I'm all for the little people getting
something out of it.
Oh Larry Summers is going to crap his pants!
Implement the FairTax, remove all this corruption from congress. There would be no more lobbying for tax favor, there would be no more IRS beating down the average citizen because he doesn't understand the tax code, there would be no more bickering about how much to take from Joe 6 Pack to give to Mamma Welfare. Companies would fight to come back to the U.S. because we'd have the greatest tax code in the world.
But they're going to sit back up on the hill and bicker back and forth over who should get to keep some of their money and who should not. Back room deals, lobbyists, bribes, f**king rampant corruption... Implement FairTax and remove the incentive for all of this!
Rut-Roh, Shaggy! This will make for an interesting market experiment In Early to Mid January....
Oh, and no BAB or UI. Was this what Marx meant when he said the state would wither?
I'm pretty far from DC, but this appears to be real division among the Tastycrats, not just play. Some of them are aware that renewing the purported tax cuts when the deficit is insane and the working class are getting whacked from all angles may not play well at home.
The Fingerlicans are acting like they have a 90% majority, but they don't. They are big bullies. The elephant is a decent mascot, but it should be hopped up on crack and dripping blood from its tusks. The Tastycrats are more like oafish morons. Perhaps they should change their mascot to the manatee, as that's about their purpose in life - to get run over by the reckless speedboats of the Republicans.
Anyway, just another signpost on the express lanes to collapse.
Obama's Democratic challenge for nomination is set in stone now.
My money is on Hillary. She's been positioning herself for just such an eventuality, and probably took the job at the State Department with just such an opportunity in mind.
Obama is rapidly and forever enraging his base.
He got a cold bowl of porridge for
them. What's so bad about porridge?
There's no way Obama gets challenged for the nomination. Eventually,
the base will realize that they could never get a more far left nominee
than "The One". They will not turn on him, he is their Messiah.
Hilary is as radical or more radical than Obama. Obama maybe more radical in theory but he backs down like a wuss when challenged. Hilary is much tougher and has a major chip on her shoulder. Slick Willy would try and temper her a bit but she wears the pants, he just tries to get in others pants.
The real challenge that will muck things up is when Bloomberg runs as an independent.
Her "this is my last public job" comment was confirmation to me that she's going to go for it.
my money says he picks up 1 independent vote for every douchebag treehugger that wants to run off & vote for Hilary
is it really a "tax cut" if its been the tax policy for the last decade? I'm really tired of hearing about this as a tax cut when its not.
DJI is down and the EURO is up since the vote.
Not raising taxes isnt a tax cut, why cant people understand this? Doing this across the board is not "for the wealthy" its for Americans. Why cant people understand this? Is this such a difficult concept to grasp?
No, it's not hard to grasp, but you cannot engage in class warfare by telling the truth.
You are going to get class warfare in any event.
Gee MarketMinds,
You're not aware that this is an extension of the Bush Era tax cuts from 2001 and 2003?
You're not aware that the 1M+ crowd benefitted disporportionatley?
You're not aware that unless your are a member of that "club" you've been getting screwed for the past decade for their benefit?
I know this is difficult for the ZH extend and pretend to aspire to be wealthy, but really folks , wake the f()ck up and stop pretending this is for "everybody".
Until there are headlines that say explicitly TAX INCREASE, the headline reading algorithms can't react.
FAST MONEY update. Dr. J and all the morons are short gold and long banks. Best contrarian (why do most spell checkers reject "contrarian?" Its spelled correctly) indicator on the planet. Gold to cross $1400 again soon. BAC up almost 1 1/2 points in last week (about 15% gain). Can anyone spell P-O-N-Z-I?
Look up the difference between contrary and contrarian.
When is the BIG EVENT coming so that I may warn my family!!!
Hyper-Inflation, Deflation, Depression???
Let's hope - the "deal" sucked anyway. It basically demanded that Obamacare get funded for another year, extended and expanded a whole bunch of other subsidies (such as the (un)Earned Income Tax Credit), and did it all entierly on the already maxed out (or so a sane person might think) national credit card.
All to keep tax rates at a still far too high level. Blech.
The power to tax is the power to govern. If they can't get these taxes through (a simple expiration) who can they tax for any material amount? And if they can't or won't tax what is their debt worth?
I think the real plan is to punt. They tried punting, but it was blocked and the Dems scored. Now, they're all preparing to punt again. Only 16 days until Christmas, so they'll now bicker for another few days and around the 17th will leave it to the new congress.
I really think that's the plan. Why wouldn't they all want to tax everybody more? They're slimy politicians and that's what they do. The tax and they don't represent.
I'm just wondering when the bullets begin flying and who gets hit first. They keep screwing with people, somebody's gonna snap. Actually, surprised it hasn't happened already.
Engaging my pitiful monkey-brain, I take the current deficit, $1.6T, add $300B for Obama stimulus II, and another $100B for Republican pork/stimulus, and it equals a deficit of $2T. A new debt ceiling of $20T needs to be in place soon "for the people of this great couintry".
This is inside baseball. The deficit is going up. The currency is going to be debased further.
You know what to do.
We All Have a Friend Like Obama C'mon dudes. You know what I'm talking about, and if you don't, you are that friend. You know, the guy who cant go to titty bars. The one who has to take a whole day to find out if he can have a couple of beers with the fellas. The one who gets a call in the middle of a good time and suddenly has to split. The one who laughs a little less hard than normal with the fellas because the wifey is around. Sometimes, they even look at the wife to see if they can laugh at a joke at all. TOTAL FUCKING PUSSIES. They drink water with lemon while everyone else is downing brewskies. They pass on shots. They have no opinion on an incredible ass that just shook a tail in front of your table. Sports? Fuck that, the only time they watch football is the Super Bowl halftime show so the wife can watch Aerosmith. Concerts? Weed? Nope. Totally foreign to him. Yes, we all have that friend.
Today, the House Dems realized NoSlama Bama Obama is that friend. I dont even care whether the tax cuts get extended or not. It just pisses me off watching Obama take it up the wazoo by a bunch of dudes who will pull out and make him taste his own ass juice. Yes, the Dems called him out on his lack of balls. They know its hopeless, but they got sick and fucking tired of watching it play out. This changes nothing..for anyone. After the Dems get it out of their system, ObangMe can puss out again a few more dozen times. Then it will be time for the dems to forcefully remove the duct tape from his crotch and remind him: THESE ARE YOUR BALLS. THEY ARE ATTACHED TO YOUR DICK. THIS IS WHAT THEY ARE CAPABLE OF!
So, guess the Decepticrats should've written in Michelle on their 2008 ballots, then! :>D
http://www.thehotjoints.com/2010/11/18/james-carville-obama-needs-two-ba...