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How Allstate Used Sampling To Confirm BofA/Countrywide Lied About Virtually Everything When Selling Mortgages

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Tue, 12/28/2010 - 18:46 | 834570 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

And yet, BAC will win also that suit and markets will keep going up.

People expect justice to happen, but that's all a big joke.

That news didn't even got it in the red today and if you look to the 50 mda, it will be at 14 by jan.

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 19:35 | 834665 eatthebanksters
eatthebanksters's picture

Too bad HFT isn't a stock...I'd buy it.

Wed, 12/29/2010 - 01:00 | 835126 Malcolm Tucker
Malcolm Tucker's picture

Meanwhile the Germans want to implement Israeli-style profiling in their airports:


Probably screening for young, arab, males...I wonder if they can screen for middle aged German bankers holding the Irish people hostage? 

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 19:59 | 834712 unwashedmass
unwashedmass's picture

you guys at Zero hedge are some nervy little peasants...suggesting that someone like Mozillo, or anyone at BAC should go to jail! gimme a fuckin' break....

take a nip of some reality juice, will ya? People like this don't go to jail. They take their money and walk away after "sharing" some with their local legislators.

i mean, get with the program already.

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 20:26 | 834747 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

I junked you because that defeatist attitude is a self-fulfilling prophecy. 

There is too much fraud in the system. The loans will never get paid. The corporations will fight amongst themselves. Eventually the wizard behind the curtain will be shown to have no clothes. The government will have to close the banks, replace the currency. Will there be prosecutions? Maybe not. But the conclusion is drawing near...

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 20:48 | 834774 LeBalance
LeBalance's picture

Golly pardner!

I think you need to get a hold of your Mr. Justice badge.  Have a seat..!

Now you know that the Fed's agreement has basically legalized counterfeiting aka theft.  And you also realise that the Bank owns everything. So why are you getting all hot and lathered up over systemic fraud?

Isn't completely obvious that head-to-toe plunder and rape is standard operating procedure?

Oh....I get it...you just opened your eyes and want to rant about how yucky it is?

Ok, fine, but get over it and get to work jerking the guy next to you.

It's a living.

Wed, 12/29/2010 - 05:25 | 835271 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

over a thousand felony convictions in the aftermath of the (much smaller) savings and loan scandal in 1990....  today?  none.   also the former used reorganization much more than bailout, relative to today.  oh, but wait, that was w. bush's father, one of the "greatest generation".  apparently the current one is ?

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 21:07 | 834804 B9K9
B9K9's picture

I just wish Tyler & Co would cease & desist with the gleeful reactions. They are unbecoming, and frankly, somewhat unprofessional given the stature of the blog and nature of the readership. But the worst mistakes are that they are both unserious and demonstrate a certain lack of awareness of what's really going down.

Look, it has always been known by all parties, indirect & direct, private & public, that this entire  steaming dung heap was based upon layers upon layers of fraud. But that's not the point: no, the entire exercise for the last 2-3 years was to jump start another bubble sufficient for the sins of (c)ommission to be miraculously erased.

That effort has failed. Of course, the likelihood of success was infinitesimal, so preparations have been in process of being made all along in case failure was indeed the result. So back to my original comment above: are to we to believe that this is it, that the courts will mete out justice and that the power-elite just fold up their tent(s) and come clean?

Bitchez, please. Rather than get excited about the next stage beginning to unfold, we should be focusing on anticipating what methods the evil empire will begin to employ to retain control once the "happy" mask is finally torn off.

This ain't no game.They're in it for keeps, and so should we. It's not everyday one witnesses or experience an end of an empire, evil or otherwise.

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 21:12 | 834821 cosmictrainwreck
cosmictrainwreck's picture

"so back to my original comment above..." so you are also traderjoe?

Wed, 12/29/2010 - 00:53 | 835121 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

No, I am but a mere disciple. 


Wed, 12/29/2010 - 05:32 | 835276 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

this ain't no party, this ain't no disco, this ain't no foolin' around.

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 21:27 | 834849 Dantzler
Dantzler's picture

I appreciate your comment, B9K9 - thanks

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 22:01 | 834902 Thomas
Thomas's picture

Simon Johnson somehow got it through to me: Progress in rousting the rascals and cleaning out the rot will be slow and incremental, but it will occur.

Wed, 12/29/2010 - 00:44 | 835111 merehuman
merehuman's picture

BkB9, thanks , i get it.

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 21:53 | 834891 illyia
illyia's picture

Yeah, I appreciate your comment too B9K9.

I suppose dark humor is a way of dealing with the flood of corruption and the distinct lack of justice. But, it's also a method of passing the buck, a la "what can we do" it's too bad oh well.

The urge to action is repeatedly squelched and the bombardment keeps on coming.

But, B9K9, you certainly are on to something: These elitist thugs have a back-up plan. It's called "cover your ass". The second rule is "if I scratch your back you scratch mine." The last rule is "the enemy of my enemy is my friend."

Everything else is Soylent Green.

Now. Whats your plan?


P.S. However cynical I may be, I do ask honestly: How do you obtain justice?

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 22:25 | 834935 Greenhead
Greenhead's picture

None the less, the rule of law is the only long-term hope for our future.  If we do not invoke the rule of law, then all bets are off and we will have a totally corrupt government.  At the end of the day, all citizens must be accountable, even the elite.

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 23:59 | 835052 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Yes, it will be crucial to invoke the Rule of Law...once we're done hanging all the bankers and politicians.

I am Chumbawamba.

Wed, 12/29/2010 - 02:28 | 835193 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Yes, this is the the point. Sadly, most are totally brainwashed into believing otherwise. Why exactly is that?

The Rule Of Law is Dead?

Wed, 12/29/2010 - 12:45 | 835806 Winston Smith 2009
Winston Smith 2009's picture

"None the less, the rule of law is the only long-term hope for our future."

True, but historically with only rare exceptions, the rule of law doesn't apply to most within the oligarchy. It's only when their somewhat obvious con games collapse, as with Enron, WorldCom, and Madoff, that they are even officially noticed by "regulators" let alone the DoJ. And in our current case with massive fraud at every level within the financial and real estate sectors having caused a Great Depression II, even when a collapse does occur, it cannot be recognized and justice done because the repercussions would be catastrophic for the oligarchy.

"If we do not invoke the rule of law, then all bets are off and we will have a totally corrupt government."

It already is in the sense that it represents moneyed special interests and not the proles who vote for either of the two major parties.

"At the end of the day, all citizens must be accountable, even the elite."

With oligarchy-captured governments, that will never happen short of a systemic collapse and at that point, if history is any guide, the proles will finally awaken and do something really stupid like follow some demigod with simple (and typically incorrect) "answers."

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 23:04 | 834980 B9K9
B9K9's picture

Justice? Well, first of all, you've already lost if you think there's going to be any "justice" in the traditional sense of the word. Reality, especially played at the level we're going to begin experiencing, is all about realpolitik. The only justice anyone is going to get is after the military is convinced that their long-term viability lies with the People, rather than with the current powers-in-charge.

As Travis knows full well, as do the power-elite and any others who care to contemplate our situation, we simply do not have sufficient energy resources in which to adequately grow the economy in order to sustain the global Ponzi. (Please note this isn't about peak oil; rather it addresses the lack of sufficient energy to achieve an annualized CAGR of around 5-7% for the next couple of generations.) Hence, the return to slavery is anticipated to provide the displaced net energy deficiency.

Right now, your average American is slated for his/her new role as a low-energy consuming, highly emotional fungible tool to be used & discarded once his/her useful life is completed. If one were to consider an historical bell curve, we are simply retracing traditional practices that were merely suspended during the last 200 years or so of the fossil fuel period.

So that's what's in store. All the pieces are being arranged to maximize the capture cooefficient. As it's being designed, the MIC still plays an important part. How we mock up an alternative deal is the question for the ages. If we can convince them that they can achieve greater power & exercise further international control with a different financial political economy, we may have a chance.

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 23:53 | 835046 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

There is an alternative B9K9. Very cogent writing by the way. All the way down this comment-stream.

But there is an energy alternative.

I have it. We're slaves to energy and TBT have us by the short hair because they control the energy. it really is that simple. He who controls energy resources controls everything.

Why am I not the new Tesla? Because everyone here and everywhere else bleats for an alternative while sucking away at the teat of the current energy paradigm.

90% of the folks here will scoff, junk or otherwise dismiss what I'm saying and move on to rant some more. Watch soome CNBC, drink a bud/coors/whatever from their fridge, turn up the AC/heat (depending) and wait to get reamed again tomorrow.

What am I waiting for? Public involvement. Not Venture fund involvement (TPB hands), not large company involvement (TPB control again), but people involvement.

And there are many others like me too. But most folks would turn away in fear of losing this for a new paradigm that might take a little re-training, even if only of perspective.

I've repeatedly invited this forum, because I see such a collective of incisive minds, but everyone is judging books by their covers.

Energy in-dependence. it's possible. In six months and a couple of million bucks and a global movement that will not retreat in the face of Corporate pushback.

I'm looking at fly in the wall news, millions and million to MIC companies including one where I was Director of Technology, believe it or not). Hundreds of millions.

Such is the state of the world.



Wed, 12/29/2010 - 00:05 | 835055 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

You write many words but you communicate nothing.

I am Chumbawamba.

Wed, 12/29/2010 - 02:31 | 835195 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Well well, that coming from primo resident ego maniac?

You piss in the wind brother, piss in the wind.

Look at your own choppy, angry, abusive rants before pointing fingers.

Got an original idea? Not some anarchy, did not pay my bills, look at me bull-shit. 

some thing real?

I do.

Now shut up.



Wed, 12/29/2010 - 03:13 | 835214 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

You have not stated specifics. 

Wed, 12/29/2010 - 07:10 | 835308 Byte Me
Byte Me's picture

It would seem that Vivek never wants to get into specifics.

But perhaps he'll misdirect and obfuscate again. I hope he does put up something specific though.

Wed, 12/29/2010 - 10:06 | 835461 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

MsC and Byteme below,

Do you think I'm going to put my design for the re-designed bicycle, which completely turns the concept of the bi-cycle on it's head and therefor all bi-wheel products too, up for perusal? Or that I'd publish the design for the hybrid power-train that can deliver 300 miles a gallon in a public place? Or the add on for private and commercial aircraft that can extend their range by 100% or more on a web-site? Or perhaps for the distributed power-generation module that would solve global energy problems here or even on my blog?

That is just not practical. Some things are best alluded to. On my design website, which I'd posted here a few times, I've laid out the obvious of what is wring with the current paradigm. It's an old eastern trick. Called neti. Not this. Not this.

therefore this (or that) suggests itself.


if i put my designs up for public consumption, they would be drained and lost in a heartbeat. too much negative sentiment. 

Of course I've met industrialists, large corporations, "capitalists', world over. And been offered large sums of money, but always with the caveat of being swallowed into soem heartless beheamoth or controlled by money without heart or vision. 

I play and say here because I've felt, from the beginning, an undercurrent of awesome minds here.

So far, mostly pushback.

After 7 years of holding and honing the vision, I'm detached from outcomes or what shape they might take.

All of what I've said above is available for review, in person of course.

Meanwhile, it's fun to play with bright minds.


ORI (VivekAnand)


Wed, 12/29/2010 - 11:12 | 835575 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Not only are you a terrible salesman, but you're also completely full of shit.  By waiting to introduce your technology, you've proven a few things: (1) its success is dependent upon the destruction of cheaper energy; (2) you're not worried about competitive products being developed in the meantime, which suggests a contemptuous view of prospective competitors and/or a massive ego; and (3) that you could not care less about being a "public benefactor" and are instead concerned with meeting your expectations of financial gain.

In short, blow it up someone else's ass.  Revolutions don't bide their time.

Wed, 12/29/2010 - 11:26 | 835594 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

have a happy time sleepwalking your way to whatever you have coming machoman. I'm responding to your current and following comment.

Your handle is indicative of your persona.

I wish you well. 


Mon, 06/27/2011 - 14:36 | 1406122 madbomber
madbomber's picture

its not revolution it's evolution.  revolutions come right back to the start.










Wed, 12/29/2010 - 10:42 | 835522 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Ok, I re-read your comment.  And I must repeat:

You write many words but you communicate nothing.

If you want to get everyone aboard your magic energy train then you're going to have to sell some tickets.  So far, it seems you've fallen rather short, by your own admission.

Maybe it's not everyone else that's the problem, maybe it's your poor salesmanship?

Inventions are like children: the parent always thinks theirs is the best and brightest, but if you don't socialize them then they'll never be able to properly emerge from beneath your wings.

I am Chumbawamba.

Wed, 12/29/2010 - 11:03 | 835558 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

All right chumba, I'll buy that. Unfortunately, being a magic energy train creator AND being it's salesman is a pressure unique to our current system of product/company creation. Thus the less than 10% "success" rate of start-ups, a system I don't subscribe to and a "success" I'd rather pass on.

Also, as you might imagine, sitting on a brood of innovations that can turn many, entire industries on their head is quite "heavy'. Makes me iconoclastic in my approach with people. Impatient. not good "sales" qualities.

I've presented my innovations to world class aviation designers, automotive heads, rally team owners, large sports houses and watched cognitive dissonance freak them out as they get it and then want me gone because I'm a change maker..

n addition, I'm a demand-sider. When the world is ready for me, I'll be ready for the world.

I'm inviting (and have before) bright minds/honest people to come on board. And some have. From right here too. Just not critical mass yet.

Are you a good salesman?


Wed, 12/29/2010 - 11:14 | 835578 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

If you had divulged your plans to this many people, they would have been perfected and patented by others by now.  Please quit spouting bullshit.  Reading between the lines, you simply present rudimentary concepts as sales pitches...  when it comes time to pony up the actual technology, you're all filler and no killer.  In short, a cozy science fiction movie is not any more of a bridge to technology than elephants painting.

Wed, 12/29/2010 - 11:33 | 835614 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

I've read through your website previously.  I believe what you say.  My comment above was more a reflection of my impatience with vague descriptions.  There are many people, myself included, who believe not only that alternatives are possible but that they're already here.  We're waiting for the breakthrough.

I'm not a salesman, I'm an evangelist.  Once I'm convinced, I become as Luke, spreading the gospel.

People who have been successful in changing paradigms in the past didn't wait for people to come to them, because they would have waited in vain, like all the others who didn't become household names.  If you build it, they will come.

I am Chumbawamba.

Wed, 12/29/2010 - 12:09 | 835720 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

The alternatives have been here for decades...  oil companies are not just oil companies, it's more accurate to portray them as energy companies...  if the technology is not taken, literally taken, by our government, it is purchased by energy companies and shelved until infrastructure can be paid and a desired level of profits achieved.

If you have a viable competing technology, the time to implement it is immediately.  As previously stated, revolution does not bide its time.  Which again, leads to my assumption that delay is indicative of a failed technology or a technology that requires a vastly changed world landscape...  either of which are hogwash for now.  As admitted by the poster, we need specific social change for the technology to even possibly work...  this is otherwise known as a prayer.  And I'm not the religious type.

Wed, 12/29/2010 - 15:03 | 836157 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Chumba, if you feel impatience, imagine mine.

And if I had one thing, say the bicycle, it'd be there, in the "market" by now.

But what I have is a seed, original knowledge that changes everything. Literally, figratively.

Like birthing, cannot put a finger or a toe out alone. It has to unfold, organically, fully, safely.

Also, like birthing, the womb, which machoman describes as the social milieu, the players, the financiers, all need to be ready and involved without attachment to financial outcomes or success.

I've learned patience the hard way.

We are at a tipping point though and the time I feel is now or soon.

I see it as more time to hone the vision, gather the team/community and hone my-self.



PS; Gratitude to TD and co for this awesome, open forum.

Wed, 12/29/2010 - 12:49 | 835815 Winston Smith 2009
Winston Smith 2009's picture

"He who controls energy resources controls everything."

No, he who controls the creation of money controls everything including energy resources.

Wed, 12/29/2010 - 00:42 | 835103 Unlawful Justice
Unlawful Justice's picture

"How do you obtain justice"

When it benefit's the participants to do so. There are many kinds of justice.  Moral, legal, social, natural, and poetic. It comes down to what's in it for me. But more so it's about the triumph of logic, and the reward of virtue. 

Wed, 12/29/2010 - 00:48 | 835118 merehuman
merehuman's picture

Rope and bullets cause the courts are bought as is congress.

Bullets and rope  is good too.

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 22:09 | 834913 grunk
grunk's picture

Finacial IED's.


They'll happen, in spite of Big Sis.

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 23:22 | 835002 Fred Hayek
Fred Hayek's picture

I suspect that it's a choice to adopt this tone rather than go the Denninger route and repeatedly appear to be shouting at readers that if something isn't done about THIS new indignity, THIS new corruption, then we no longer have any country whatsoever.  The problem is that the indignities and corruptions abound.  And as much as many of them deserve a response of full-on outrage, you can only do full-on outrage so many times before the effect is minimal and you seem to have progressed to an implicit defeatist attitude.

Wed, 12/29/2010 - 02:01 | 835167 marc_hanes
marc_hanes's picture

I do remember reading (not as an official member) the early days of this website when posts were presented in a more dispassionate, "you decide" tone. Maybe the expectation was that the readership was smaller and more intelligent or informed. The past, gosh, at least nine months the more "biased" introductions to articles have appeared. I remember a debate whether or not Tyler, et. al. should switch from "just the facts, ma'am" to more of an advocatory position. Both sides had valid points. It seems that ZH has chosen a more hands on, editorial approach. Not for me to say why. But, as one voice, I did prefer the more objective "here is an article, here is a twenty word synopsis, now discuss" approach.

Wed, 12/29/2010 - 11:17 | 835581 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

The same reason why all media adopts a "stance" on the issue, the perceived bottom line...  we're dealing with intelligent actors...

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 22:51 | 834964 Hugh_Jorgan
Hugh_Jorgan's picture

C'mon. I do believe the man had his <sarc> turned on, as well as his <cynic>. We all know that it is a double-standard crock for all but those with a large enough bank account or the right aquaintances. Let the man vent in peace already.

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 23:58 | 835050 Blano
Blano's picture

I think you and 16 others need to fire up the ol' sarcasm meters a bit.

Wed, 12/29/2010 - 00:15 | 835071 undereducated
undereducated's picture



Dog, dog, dog eat dog.

Wed, 12/29/2010 - 10:22 | 835491 SteveNYC
SteveNYC's picture

I picked up on the same thing you did: the REAL nut here is the predictable behaviour of the corporations themselves. Now that most people are pretty much financially raped and there is nothing more to steal from them, the corporations will start eating themselves.

This could start with a trickle, and turn into a massive flood. The theatre will be superb. Let them weaken each other, take each other down, and observe.

Nature has designed mechanisms, ones our simple minds can't even contemplate or fathom existence thereof, that will restore balance. Let the conditions continue to manifest....

Tue, 12/28/2010 - 23:40 | 835020 Rwbrown72
Rwbrown72's picture

You've been touching too many people's junk! They are going down this time... or maybe next time.... or at least the time after that I'm sure!

Wed, 12/29/2010 - 00:54 | 835122 Air_BernanQE
Air_BernanQE's picture

Justice does not seem to be an option for Americans anymore. Markets will continue to ride "Air Bernank" .

Wed, 12/29/2010 - 10:23 | 835496 SteveNYC
SteveNYC's picture

Great name "Air BernanQE"! Had me in stitches!


Tue, 12/28/2010 - 18:50 | 834574 umop episdn
umop episdn's picture

The full Allstate filing which is a must read for everyone is presented below. And it wouldn't show up for me because I forgot to turn off Adblock... just a FYI.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!