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How The CBOT, Comex And CFTC Coordinated To Break The Last Silver Price Surge

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Just like QE is nothing new in the monetary arena, and has seen some incarnation at least since the early 80's primarily in Japan, so parabolic commodity price surges have occurred periodically, most notably in 1980, when Bunker Hunt brought the price of silver to over $50. However, unlike any time before, never in the history of the world have we seen a coordinated worldwide monetary stimulus via relentless credit money "printing" courtesy of global central banks. In that regard, this time really is different, as there is no other remaining backstop to the world financial system: the global banking cartel has used up all its bullets and now can only double down in the most nightmarish Martingale system ever conceived, where each iteration means further fiat absolute value destruction (on a relative basis it simply means a race to the currency bottom, whereby definition only one can be in the lead at any given moment: usually the one with the biggest printing press, and greatest deflationary threat). And while many still believe that QE2 will be the last of domestic US monetary easing episodes, as Bill Gross noted earlier, it is very possible that the US may be headed into a triple-dip recession, for which the only prescription will be another QE round (with political gridlock in DC at unseen levels no fiscal stimulus is even remotely possible). If this happens, precious metals will once again surge. The only question is what will the exchanges do after the next gold and silver spike? Indeed, as we suggest, margin hikes are just the beginning. For a complete playbook of how the CME may proceed after the margin hike approach fails, we once again go back to the curious case of Bunker Hunt. Below, from the Playbook biopic of the Texas billionaire we posted yesterday, we present the walk through of how the CBOT, Comex and CFTC tried to break silver's back. Back in 1980 they succeeded. Have they, and will they succeed this time?

...The CFTC and the officials of the two exchanges decided to have a little talk with the Hunts. Explaining that they feared a squeeze, the exchange officials asked them if they would consider selling some of their silver. The brothers’ answer was no. What was more, they said, they intended to keep buying silver and to keep taking delivery on it. They thought silver was still a good buy, even at the  new high prices. Besides, as Bunker put it with typical understatement. “If you sell, you get into a tax problem.”

On top of all that, Bunker really did believe in silver as a long-term investment, the underpinnings of a new economy. He did not say that in so many words to the CFTC men and the exchange officials, but he did give them a glimpse of his basic apocalyptic vision when he revealed a previously undisclosed feature of his silver play: the fact that he was moving his metal to Europe. This time, he did not fly the bullion overseas in chartered jets with cowboy guards. As he told the CFTC, Bunker simply traded 9,000,000 ounces’ worth of metal he held in Chicago and New York exchange warehouses for an equal amount of bullion held by other traders in London and Zurich. The reason? As he explained to the CFTC and the exchange officials, he feared that the U. S. Government might expropriate silver from Americans just as it had expropriated gold back in the Thirties.

But Bunker’s assurances that he was willing to cooperate as much as possible apparently mollified the CFTC officials; the C.B.O.T., however, concluded that it was time to act. In a move aimed directly at the Hunts and the other big buyers, the Board of Trade raised the margin requirement and declared that silver traders would be limited to 3,000,000 ounces of futures contracts. Traders with more than that would have to divest themselves of their excess futures holdings by mid-February 1980.

With that, the battle lines were drawn. Bunker let it be publicly known that he thought the C.B.O.T. was changing the rules in the middle of the game, and vowed to fight the limits all the way. Privately, he regarded the C.B.O.T.’s action as another conspiracy against him by the Eastern establishment. And for once, he had a good prima-facie case.

The boards of both the Chicago and the New York exchanges were composed not only of “outside” directors but also of representatives of the major, usually Eastern-based brokerage houses. Later testimony would reveal that nine of the 23 Comex board members held short contracts on 38,000,000 ounces of silver. With their 1.88 billion dollar collective interest in having the price go down, it is easy to see why Bunker did not view them as objective regulators. At the same time, though, the C.B.O.T. restrictions made Bunker even more bullish on silver, because, as he put it, “they show a silver shortage exists.”

Bunker appeared to be right. Through November and December, the price of silver rose faster than ever. By the last day of 1979, the price reached an astronomical $34.45 an ounce. Meanwhile, the Hunts’ silver holdings kept increasing. By the end of December, the Hunts and their Arab partners held 90,300,000 ounces of bullion that the CFTC knew about and another 40,000,000 ounces the Hunts had stashed in Europe. The Hunt group also held about 90,000,000 ounces worth of silver futures, most of them due for delivery in March on the Comex in New York.

By this time, the CFTC became concerned that the silver positions held by the Hunts and the Conti group were “too large relative to the size of the U. S. and world silver markets.” Subscribing to the philosophy that the futures market was not a substitute for the cash market, the commission determined that the time had come to stop Bunker’s perverse buying spree. A meeting to decide what to do was set for January 8, 1980.

Then the Comex stepped in. On January seventh, the exchange announced new position limits restricting traders to no more than 10,000,000 ounces’ worth of futures contracts. The effective date of the limits was set for February 18. The day after the Comex announcement, the CFTC announced that it was backing the exchanges new limits.

Bunker was incensed. “I am not a speculator. I am not a market squeezer,” he protested. “I am just an investor and holder in silver.” Taking the offensive, he accused the exchanges and the Government of destroying the U. S. silver market by changing the rules in the middle of the game. “The market will move to Europe,” he predicted ominously. “The silver market in this country is a thing of the past.”

Strangely enough, the price of silver fell only one day in the wake of the Comex announcement, then started climbing even higher. Part of the reason for the continued price spiral, according to an after-the-fact analysis by the CFTC, was that Bunker kept buying silver. On January 14 and 16, the Hunts made agreements to take future delivery on 32,500,000 ounces of silver (mostly in London) at various dates that spring. The largest of those contracts were with Englehard Minerals. On January 17, silver hit a record high of $50 an ounce.

Bunker could hardly be incensed about that. On that one day, the worth of the Hunts’ silver bullion holdings was nearly four and a half billion dollars. Since most of that silver had been acquired at less than ten dollars an ounce, they had a profit of over three and a half billion dollars. Bunker and Herbert had made nearly as much money in the past six months as their late father had made in his entire lifetime, at least on paper. Of course, if Bunker actually sold all that bullion, he would face enormous tax consequences. The trick now was to figure a way to utilize those huge gains without having them decimated by the taxman.

As Bunker pondered that, the exchanges decided to impose their most stringent restriction yet. On January 21, the Comex announced that trading would be limited to liquidation orders only. There would be no more futures buying. The game was closing down.

The next day, the price of silver plunged to $34, a drop of ten dollars in a single day. It stabilized shortly after that, and remained in the mid to high 30s for the rest of the month. But in February, the price began to slide downward again. By that time, silver was literally coming out of the woodwork. In response to the new high prices, old ladies had been selling their tea sets. Families had been hocking their silverware. Coin collectors had been divesting themselves of their collections. In January and February alone, an estimated 16,000,000 ounces of silver coins and an additional 6,000,000 ounces of scrap silver had come onto the market. With the price of silver now dropping, some of those small sellers and small investors began complaining to the CFTC about the exchange restrictions...

Ironically, while the paper holders of silver may be complaining to the CFTC now, the inverse is true about physical supply-demand dynamics. Indeed, instead of a scramble to convert physical silver to paper, we continue to see the inverse as a material amount of silver wholesale retailers continue to be out of actual silver.

And, as was posted yesterday, those who wish to read the full story of Bunker Hunt and the still historic surge in silver, may do so here.

 

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Fri, 05/06/2011 - 19:13 | 1249656 Muir
Muir's picture

___________________BTFDs!!!

-

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 19:29 | 1249707 jomama
jomama's picture

i've said it once, i'll say it again.  the best thing about your posts is your avatar.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 21:52 | 1250111 Re-Discovery
Re-Discovery's picture

+ 2 (perfect ones)

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 19:25 | 1251613 Transformer
Transformer's picture

I posted this on a different thread, but it really should be here.

 

  I sure see what's happening now as having multiple parallels and similarities to what  happened in 1980 with Bunker Hunt.  He decided to corner the physical silver market because of inflation fears, and proceded to amass well over 100 million ounces of physical silver stored at various locations around the world, all of it free and clear.  He got embroiled with the Commodity exchanges and they always win, because they make the rules and have the ultimate rule maker on their side, the US government.  His plan was working, he got taken down because he had lots of futures contracts, and there was that same short side interest that is there today.  They naked shorted the market and he lost.

What is happening right now is so similar as to be eerie.  An entity is buying up all the physical silver it can get, for the same reasons that Bunker was doing it.  That entity has amassed a huge unknown amount of silver, but certainly, at least twice as much as Bunker did.  The difference is that this entity is not in the commodities market and therefore un touchable by those same short interests.  The entity, of course, is millions of individuals from all walks of life, the public.

This action has turned the physical market into a huge Gorilla.  The commodities market pales in comparison as far as actual physical silver delivered to buyers is concerned.  Until now, this physical market has stayed pretty much in lockstep with the paper market as regards price, but due to abuses and corruption in the paper market, the physical is breaking away from the paper market, which has always determined price discovery. Now that all players see the blatant corruption in the paper market, a new price discovery mechanism will assert itself. 

A similar parallel can be drawn about the price of gold as recently as a year ago.  Gold seemed to track almost exactly the inverse price of the dollar.  This continued until the market realized that the dollar was finished and that any upwards movements of the dollar were simply aberrations brought about by currency swaps, bond failures around the world and other factors.  The fate of the dollar is sealed and this is now known by all the players, so the gold price broke away and now moves completely independently of the dollar.  In one sense, this is strictly not true, as gold is going up because the dollar is going down, but no one is fooled anymore by temporary moves to the upside of the dollar, no matter how well it is talked up by the FED or the idiots on CNBC.

Like wise, we have just arrived at the point where no one will be fooled by the Comex price of silver any more.  After the display put on this past week at the Comex, we all get it.  And remember, we don't have commodities contracts, so the exchange can't naked short us to death.  We frankly don't care.  As long as the Comex pricing mechanism holds up, it will act to only further bring about this change, as manipulated lower prices for silver will bring about greatly increased buying on the part of the public, increasing the shortage.  The Comex traders engineer this big whack job to push silver lower to stop this advance and it has no effect.  The public sees it as "Silver on sale" and they just buy more.  The Comex con artists can have no affect on what's happening, almost by definition.  The public buys silver for the same reason Bunker did, only we're not on margin. 

As witness, what happens?  The Comex brings the price down.  The public watches but does not sell its physical.  When it looks like the price has bottomed, the public jumps in and buys all the physical it can get, until the dealers are out of stock and back ordered for six weeks.  This just increases all the fundamental pressures that were driving silver to the upside, to begin with.  Blythe and company ulitmately achieve, with their short sighted manipulation, the opposite of what they are trying to accomplish.

So, I say to those manipulative forces that are trying to stop us, go ahead, keep it up.  The pricing mechanism is going to change now, and whatever you do just drives the price higher anyway.

 

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 22:36 | 1250236 scratch_and_sniff
scratch_and_sniff's picture

Which of you retards thinks the bullion dealers are going to discover adequate pricing mechanisms in time for this grand divergence? From what I have read on this site alone there are already $3-$5 arbs popping up all over the place. How is that going to work out? The market will be a shambles; you think the volatility you seen on the CME was bad, just wait until you have legions of grasping silver dealers trying to out manoeuvre one another. What is the pricing mechanism anyway? “Billybob sold 3 ounces for $150 so im gonna sell for $151, snortle ?” Who’s going to be fixing the prices, when? what will they use to track even the bulk of the market? Even if you think about it for a second, it just evaporates into absurdity, nice dream though. SELL FOOLS!!

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 00:14 | 1250384 Transformer
Transformer's picture

To me, what you have said is funny.  Retailers have been creating prices, competing against each other for the sale of the same goods for a long long time.  From one point of view, it is very simple, especially in a supply limited market such as this.  A dealer simply sets a price, that he thinks will be about right.  Then if there is more demand than he has product, he raises the price.  If he seems to have more product than there is demand, he lowers the price, or promotes and advertises more.

How many dealers are there out there right now who are sold out and back ordered for weeks?  If they had raised their price, they might still have product to sell and would make more money. 

Don't you get it?  We don't need slick New Yorkers in $2000 suits to tell us how much to sell silver for.  The Comex hardly has any silver anyway, and they only sell a couple million ounces every other month.  They gotta be less than 5% of the market.  Retailers have been figuring out how to price their goods for millenia.  Only a paper backed con game needs suits to set the price.

Go to First Majestic, to their silver store and see how they set the price.  Go to ebay, see how the price is set there.

Producers, distributors and suppliers have got to wake up.  I think it's happening, but they all gotta wake up.  APMEX, stop saying the  price is spot plus so many dollars.  Just name your price based on supply and demand.  Now is the time, all the new people coming in will just want to buy silver, they don't even know what spot is.

And if some customer says, "Your price is way over spot, I'm not gonna pay that."  A dealer could say, politely, "Well sir, it's completely ok with me if you want to buy your silver from the Comex.  My silver is real, you can take it home with you, right now."

DON'T YOU GET IT, WE DON'T NEED THE FUCKING COMEX!!!!!  LET THEM FUCK EACH OTHER OVER!!!! WE CAN SET THE PHYSICAL PRICE OURSELVES, BASED ON SUPPLY AND DEMAND, LIKE ALL OTHER MARKETS DO.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 01:10 | 1250453 Stormdancer
Stormdancer's picture

Transformer, here's another place ex-COMEX that has the potential to set PM prices:

http://www.bulliondirect.com/nucleo/showProducts.do?cat=Silver_Bullion&c...

 

They've also got the following blurb posted:

 

05/06/11 4:15:16 PM CDT

Operational Delays

Due to heightened market activity please expect delays in customer service, accounting, shipping, and receiving.

I sometimes like to poke around in there looking at bid ask spreads for different bars and coins and seeing how much of what is available....figured you might enjoy it as well :)
Sat, 05/07/2011 - 01:32 | 1250475 Transformer
Transformer's picture

Thanks Stormdancer.  Cool link.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 05:23 | 1250600 Stormdancer
Stormdancer's picture

You're welcome.  The Nucleo exchange is an interesting business model.  Real trades of real, unleveraged silver, all trades resulting in a delivery.  I think when paper and real metal diverge it will show up on Nucleo pretty quickly.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 09:19 | 1250723 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

Wazzup SD!

 

Riders on the storm we are......unlike Kitco....you won't get banned on ZH....but you can get junked into oblivion....heh heh. :)

 

 

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 17:01 | 1251475 Stormdancer
Stormdancer's picture

Nice to see you and a few other misfits I'm familiar with around :)

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 11:25 | 1250887 Absinthe Minded
Absinthe Minded's picture

I use Nucleo Exchange on Bullion Direct all the time. Great place to deal with. Sometimes the catalog prices are better than the Nucleo prices. Some silver holders don't like to lower their prices as quickly, can't say I blame them. Loaded up on another 20 oz. yesterday while it was on sale. Delivery promises dates are pretty accurate too. Load up people.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 10:42 | 1250819 earnulf
earnulf's picture

Thank you SD for a great link, very interesting, needs to be spread to more folks so that they have a chance at some physical.   Well Done

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 21:45 | 1252007 Stormdancer
Stormdancer's picture

Spread it far and wide :).  A free market is quite capable of setting up price discovery arenas and if Nucleo isn't the answer it sure might be the model for it when it shows up.

Assuming what little "free" we have left stays that way...an endangered assumption at best in this climate.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 11:54 | 1250951 rosiescenario
rosiescenario's picture

....now that we have this thing called 'The Internet'....price discovery is possible with a few mouse clicks....the CME may have just shot themselves in the foot by their obvious attempt to manipulate the silver price downward.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 12:06 | 1250984 Transformer
Transformer's picture

I think you are exactly right, and they are finished.  They are not going to be the price setters.  And that is the key to their manipulation game.  As long as they can set the price, they control the market.  I see just a few weeks here, for everyone in the silver business to figure this out.  The Crimex is something in the past that people will make jokes about.  They are scumbag criminals and this is how we beat them.  I am willing to bet my entire silver stash (and sadly, it's not very much) that this is the last whack job they do on the silver market.  Crimex will be relegated to  the past.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 01:12 | 1250396 Stormdancer
Stormdancer's picture

How is that going to work out? The market will be a shambles; you think the volatility you seen on the CME was bad,...

 

No my dear troll, the market will not be in shambles.  A day will come when the market denominated in US dollars (or any other fiat currency) will simply cease to exist for a time.  Silver will go into hiding and refuse to come out for any amount of fiat currency.  So, you'd do well to prepare for the day when silver will only come out of hiding in exchange for oil, wheat, sugar, coffee, corn, good beef, copper or, wait for it.....gold. :)

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 01:15 | 1250461 scratch_and_sniff
scratch_and_sniff's picture

The naivety of it all, i dont even know why i bother.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 01:34 | 1250473 Transformer
Transformer's picture

Yeah, where do I get some of that "naivety".  I been wantin to gets some of that for a long while.

So, you don't think its possible to have a physical silver market without the COMEX to tell us how much to sell it for?

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 01:48 | 1250491 i-dog
i-dog's picture

"i dont even know why i bother"

I often wonder the same thing: why do you bother? And why are you so concerned about how other people spend their money as to shout (in your previous post): "SELL FOOLS"?

Fucking socialists: always got their hands in other people's pockets and offering "helpful advice" on how other people should conduct their lives.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 08:34 | 1250691 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

But they just want to do great things with your resources. Like help the poor. Or collect all the earths valuables. Like educate people. Except for corporate trade secrets. Like take care of widows and orphans. Except for the altar boys they rape.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aou6c2MOmg

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 01:58 | 1250499 scratch_and_sniff
scratch_and_sniff's picture

good luck with your trades guys.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 03:14 | 1250545 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

They are not trades...

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 04:54 | 1250585 Stormdancer
Stormdancer's picture

Actually, I do make trades :)  But only for gold.  And I only trade gold for silver.

DoChenRollerBearing knows what I'm talking about :)

A couple of years ago I bought two big ugly industrial bars of silver. One bar was 5 kilos and the other was 14.393 kilos.  If, at that time, I'd used the exact same amount of money to purchase gold, I'd have been able to purchase 9 ounces of gold. 

On April 15th I traded that 623.5 ounces of industrial silver for 16.1 ounces of internationally recognized gold in coin form.

If the gold/silver ratio makes it back up to 50, I'll trade that 16.1 ounces of gold back into silver and after transaction costs I'll end up with about 760 ounces of internationally recognized silver coins.

Depending on what I think the market is doing I will probably trade that silver back into gold again when the ratio hits 30 or so.  After transaction costs I'll net about 23.5 ounces of gold.

Turning 9 ounces of gold into 23.5 ounces in a few years is a win in my book :)

I've not taken one minute of risk being caught in fiat currency while it crashes...and if the market doesn't go according to my plan ...well...I'm "stuck" with 7 more ounces of gold than I would have had if I'd bought gold in the first place.  Woe is me.....  :)

And I've got more silver to trade at 30, and 20, and 10 ...just in case.

I really don't care if the GSR makes it back to 50 or not.

GSR trading is a leisurely process that is completely independent of price and is a logical strategy for those who have managed to visualize winning in terms of ounces instead of dollars.  I don't deal with the stress many traders have to put up with on a daily basis :)

 

 

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 07:28 | 1250643 Tennessee Patriot
Tennessee Patriot's picture

Stormdancer, I have a question for you.  You stated that you have had some experience utilizing Industrial Silver in the purchase of Silver & Gold.  You are the first individual I found that apparently has "broken the code" on using Industrial Silver in this manner. 

On the APMEX site they have Industrial Silver for sale in various size bags.  All of it is .999% pure BB Shot sized.  The disclaimer in the add says, "Not recommended for Investment purposes".  OK.  I got it.  I can see what the obvious "transaction issues" would be if you showed up somwehere with a bag of shiny BB's, claimed that they were Silver and wanted to either cash it in or use them to purchase something. 

I am taking the long view that in the future the price of Silver will be such that even a 1 oz. Round or Bar will be worth more than the "thing" I need to buy, and being able to measure out a small amount of silver, say in 1/4 of an ounce in BB form, would be more practical.  Basically the issue would be, "How will you get change for a 1 oz. Round"?

That being said, I would like to read your about your experiences, and anyone else for that matter, on this potential future issue.  Thanks. 

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 08:34 | 1250684 i-dog
i-dog's picture

You need to fire up a few of your own brain cells and think about what you would accept -- if you were a shopkeeper or service provider -- in the event of a USD failure / hyperinflation.

Would you accept Candian Dollars, Swiss Francs or Mexican Pesos? What would your suppliers accept? How would the gold and/or silver bug periodically convert small amounts of his stored wealth into those more convenient currencies for daily expenses? Would you accept a gold coin that had been cut into quarters (the origin of the 'quarter')?

I can assure you that no sane person would be wandering the streets with a 10oz silver bar looking for a pint of milk and change in BB shot!

Also look to Argentina after their crash for examples of local 'currencies' -- vouchers issued by local banks or businesses -- that local citizens would be paid in for work done and freely exchange for goods in their local markets. (I've forgotten how/when they would be redeemed for more widely accepted currencies, but you could research it, or wait for someone here to provide an answer for you).

In the absence of Big Brother, energetic entrepreneurs will fill every market niche with creative solutions to every problem.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 09:11 | 1250694 Stormdancer
Stormdancer's picture

Tennessee,  the "industrial" silver I traded was in bar form, clearly hallmarked from well known refiners (in Australia at least).  I don't imagine I'd like to try trading for shot under any circumstances.  I don't see how you could convince anyone the shot was really pure silver.

I don't know what the answer to your "How will you get change.." question is if silver values do something stupid crazy (and I believe they could), but I'm reminded of some past answers.  Google "pieces of eight" right quick and you'll find stories of when Spanish dollars and early US dollars were cut into as many as 8 wedges or "bits" which were then used to make change.  I don't know that such a practice will ever come back into fashion, but human ingenuity will surely find some kind of widely accepted answer should the same problem crop up again.

Or, perhaps we'll have to remonetize copper or brass coins again to use for making change for silver.  A lot depends on how much time and turmoil has to go by before a new currency system replaces our current dollar based system.  If it only takes a few months, it's probably not going to matter much.  If it takes a couple of years....well...like I said, I'm sure we'll figure something out.

I'd avoid the silver shot though still.  I don't see that stuff as being valuable to anyone but a jeweler who plans to melt/cast it into jewelry or an industrial user that's going to melt it into his solder or other product.

 

Edit:  I thought I'd ad this as well Tennessee.  My plan doesn't include surviving a time of dire economic disaster by spending silver.  I intend to be buying silver during that time if it comes.  That's why I have trade goods laid aside like food, spices, tampons, a few tonnes of wheat (and a good grinder), toilet paper, enough bar soap to wash Ghengis Kahn's horde twice over, enough shampoo for same.......etc...you get the picture. 

Just something to think about :).  Some people think about surviving on their silver.  I think about providing the things they're willing to give silver up for :)  In my plan, precious metals are for carrying wealth through the turmoil unmolested, not for surviving in the midst of it.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 13:10 | 1251148 RexZeedog
RexZeedog's picture

If you want to survive real turmoil, you'd better add a large supply of bullets (and bullet delivery devices) to your stockpile - or else the hungry hordes will pick you clean for free...

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 14:06 | 1251212 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

 

Good stuff!  Straight from FOFOA.  Always a good read.

BTW:  Mint silver sets again need look.   Use your own judgement in allocating a few stray fiats to some genuine Mint products.   I bought a boatload at the older $32/set range.  The ATB Quarter Silver Proof Sets each contain 0.90420 troy ounces of silver.

2010 United States Mint America the Beautiful Quarters Silver Proof Set™ (SV2)

2010 America the Beautiful Quarters Silver Proof Set
March 5, 2010: Price of $32.95 published in Federal Register. Silver is $17.25 per ounce.
May 27, 2010: Sales begin. Silver is $18.36 per ounce.
February 27, 2011: Sales suspended. Silver is $32.54 per ounce.
March 18, 2011: Sales resume. Price increased to $39.95. Silver is $35.15 per ounce.
April 8, 2011: Sales suspended. Silver is $40.22 per ounce.
May 5, 2011: Sales resume. Price remains at $39.95. Silver is around $35 per ounce.

Today's Price: $39.95
http://catalog.usmint.gov/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/EmailView?sourceCode=B78140H&URL=ProductDisplay&catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&productId=15252&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=10111
Sat, 05/07/2011 - 07:23 | 1250628 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

Scratch 'n' Sniff

You mean the "naivety" of buying paper Silver on the Crimex, what little physical they have is being emptied at a rapid rate, and dealing with the CME (Chicago Mafia Exchange) who've just trashed their exchange, their name and the Silver price in an absolute shambolic farce! That naivety???

The naivety of believing their CNBC adverts running right now saying CME are there to "help farmers" and other people "manage their risk"? After being directly responsible for increasing price volatility beyond nuclear meltdown critical for investors presumably they'll now be withdrawing their oily fraud of a laughable CNBC advert? Will they be sacking both their risk managers and margin managers forwith for creating carnage in their exchange? 

Goodbye the toilet paper trading CME/Crimex, your shambolic risk/margin managers and incompetent vandals on the CME Board of Directors

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 10:05 | 1250769 scratch_and_sniff
scratch_and_sniff's picture

Good luck with all that lot mate, all the best.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 11:23 | 1250845 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

it's happening 'mate'... you can go scratch and sniff CME/Comex's running on empty, of both private investors and Silver itself, exchanges in the months ahead... sure to join the running on fumes stock markets ...everything the US establishment touches (US property, banking, pensions, education, FRN's etc) turns to a sack of shit

..the Crimex as we speak is being emptied of Silver (real value) leaving a fraudulent worthless paper shell game. A process that's been going on for 20 years raping America learnt with the Pump & Dump internet 2000 and MBS Mortgages (sows ears sold as silkpurses)... the Parasite Club are creating huge white noise (see CNBC every day) that 'all is well' while the extort any value left ...wake up and smell the musical chairs 'mate'

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 18:58 | 1251679 Stormdancer
Stormdancer's picture

You begin with "Which of you retards...." and then expect us to believe you wish us good luck? :)

Anyway...don't "bother" on my account.  I don't need luck because I've educated myself, developed a plan and got off my dead ass and executed.  I could be wrong and if I am I'll suffer the consequences.  I can handle that, I'm a big boy now.

If you look at the risk reward profile of my choices about the worst that can happen is I die well a fed pauper showering the grandkids with worthless shiny baubles.  And with all that soap I'll be a really clean pauper :).

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 04:23 | 1250574 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Don't. Go away. Better yet, die.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 09:55 | 1250753 scratch_and_sniff
scratch_and_sniff's picture

Take deep breaths (use your nose this time, not your mouth),the anger needs to be harnessed boy, why don’t you channel it all at once and learn how to write your name or something, nothing too ambitious though, i wouldn’t want you going nuts and biting your tongue off.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 09:08 | 1250703 fiddler_on_the_roof
fiddler_on_the_roof's picture

Hahahahaha Silver bidding for Gold? ZH crowd will go over the edge if they believe in Silver. When Gold bursts out higher "soon", Gold will go into hiding. Silver is mostly a commodity since it was demonetized by all countries.

Also there is a risk that if Govts re-monetize Gold, you wont be able to convert your silver for even 9 oz of Gold

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 10:42 | 1250814 tmosley
tmosley's picture

That's cute.  You think governments are the arbiters of reality.

Gold, silver, platinum, and palladium are money, because they have all of the characteristics of money.  Platinum and palladium have never been used as currency to my knowledge, but that doesn't mean they aren't money.  They are currently used as industrial commodities, and one of them is more expensive than gold.  

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 12:05 | 1250973 fiddler_on_the_roof
fiddler_on_the_roof's picture

Govt and big money will decide which monetary metal will become money. We, little people will decide nothing.
When silver and Gold was both money : ratio 15:1
After 1971 when both were in de-monetized. State : ratio 50:1
When only Gold is re-monetized. : ratio 150:1 ?

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 12:23 | 1251027 Transformer
Transformer's picture

You really don't get it, do you?  the Evil Empire is on the ropes.  They are failing, their plans are failinig.  Regular middle of the road newspapers question the veracity of Obama's kill of OBL.  We the people are going to go back to being in control.  Like America was set up to begin with.  Did you know that the American revolution was started and carried out by 3% of the population?  Toward the end of the revolution, that number rose to 8%.  And sheeple like you just sat back and watched.

The thing is, this does not have to be a bloody revolution.  This revolution will be fought in a thousand venues, one of them being (and perhaps the most important) about real money.  It's a knowledge revolution.  When enough people wake up, "they" are finished.  and, we're just about there now.  Their game of domination and control COMPLETELY depends on the sheeple not knowing what is going on.  We've already passed the threshold.  More than half the people get their news from alternative sources, such as Drudge, blogs, Alex jones, Zero hedge.  They've already lost but have not given up yet.

So, you little people just keep on doing what you're told.  We Zero Hedgers will win the information war.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 14:27 | 1251238 fiddler_on_the_roof
fiddler_on_the_roof's picture

Date: Sun Nov 23 1997 09:18
ANOTHER (THOUGHTS!) ID#60253:

Many wait for the next great bull market in gold to begin before they buy. Why buy now and lose interest or stock market gains? They will miss the greatest investment ever to come in ones lifetime! The powers of this world have already begun this motion. People of simple thought have but to buy physical gold and make low as the financial wars begin! You see, gold was cornered this year. It is done. No Central Bank will sell it's 50, 100, 200 million ozs gold when 600 million is needed! I ask you, how can currency price gold? Indeed, no price will work! You think any form of "paper gold" will stand this fire? Can we do battle with lions? When oil will not take currency without gold the havenots will not sit still!

"When a thousand hungry lions fight over one scrap of food, small dogs should hide with whats in their belly".

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 15:22 | 1251298 Transformer
Transformer's picture

Or, they can go down to the coin store and buy a few more ounces of silver.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 18:49 | 1251674 Ardent Spirits
Ardent Spirits's picture

A short history lesson. America did not have a real revolution. Real revolutions are like the French Revolution or the ones currently being called 'Arab Spring'. The French Revolution went on for ten brutal years, including the Terror & all the rest. What America did was throw off the British yoke Government to Government. Our Government Allied itself to France, Government to Government, or we would not have won. If it comes down to Revolution over the admitted depredations of the Republican/ Wall St Kleptocracy the revolution will be the old fashioned kind, not a replay of our decidedly atypical 'Revolution.' The biggest player is the media. All wars are now fought in the media. Vietnam established that new Realpolitik. The battle is now over how many ignorant voters can be propagandized by the nonsense of the Tea Party movement as opposed to the voice of reason to be found in the alternative sources. The best minds in the field of Applied Psychology serve the Kleptocrats. It remains to be seen if they can continue to convince the Sheeple that shit is really chocolate ice cream. At least we know that the Kleptocrats way is slow poison for our suffering nation.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 17:17 | 1251513 Stormdancer
Stormdancer's picture

There is no risk free plan for navigating the future.  Or crossing the street for that matter.  I've done my homework as well as my God given capabilities have allowed.  I've developed a plan to address what I see as most likely outcomes.  I've purchased as many options as my meager assets will allow.

Ya rolls the dice, ya takes yer chances.  Life...glorious, unpredictable, challenging life.  And of course "On a long enough time line...."   :)

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 12:11 | 1250997 Transformer
Transformer's picture

You're totally right about that.  I have friends who are not in silver and when we talk about it, they ask me,  "Well, how high do you think silver will go?"  And I tell to just pick a number, any number.  And then I explain to them that when the dollar is depreciating every day so that prices have to be reset, nobody will want it.  At that point silver won't be priced in dollars, just the opposite, everything will be priced in silver and gold.  So, you will be able to pick any number you want, cause silver will get to a point where it won't be for sale in terms of dollars.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 04:39 | 1250578 michigan independant
michigan independant's picture

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHyV9V-37zc&feature=related <----- fiat reading music

Overall I get the point they are not selling this time.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 04:44 | 1250581 michigan independant
michigan independant's picture

.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 07:14 | 1250637 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

We set the price for the silver we own. The death spiral that the banksters are trying to avoid:

Physical-paper spreads widen and correlate with margin hikes.  Physical-paper price decouples as market en masse recognizes that the Comex price can't clear physical holdings.  Comex price free falls as the paper price becomes meaningless, while the market reconstitutes around physical.

Hey, wait a minute!  This story is familiar...

USD devaluation widens and correlates with money printing.  Buying power and paper value decouple as market en masse recognizes that USD can't buy anything.  USD free falls as the fiat becomes meaningless, while the market reconstitutes around a new currency.

-in my sopwith camel

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 20:56 | 1251886 clymer
clymer's picture

Scratch_and_sniff.. I gotta tell you (and I only say this because I care)..

 

You post with all of the arrogance, haughtiness and pompousness of a well-heeled puke.

 

You betray your Irish heritage. I thought you were better than this.

 

resume trolling, inherited one. Some of us had to work to pay for our broadband.

Sun, 05/08/2011 - 02:34 | 1252450 scratch_and_sniff
scratch_and_sniff's picture

clymer, with all due respect, i find it hard to call it trolling anymore. Its like this, if my posts were polite and understated, they would either be ignored or junked anyway, even for asking moderate and discrete questions that dont tow the party line by a whisker; that in itself is trolling, its much worse actually.

The hardline intransigence of opinion, the deeply ingrained and disturbing paranoia of absolutely anythig, the naivety, rage and political aloofness is always “in your face“, and if you don’t mind me saying so, a little hard to take seriously all of the time. That’s why its fun to troll sometimes, its funny when people bite; shamefully I sit giggling like a little girl when I have better things to be doing. People get so angry because the issues are so subtle, clouded, but the underlying drivers are political - just not the kind of politics I am used to. I suppose if I am to take any responsibility for hurting anyone its because the lines here are badly blurred, this site does little to put the record straight; with some I am talking about investments, with others i am talking about revolution, the end of a nation and ideologies I am struggling with frankly.

Spare me the heritage crap too, generations of my family have been involved in struggle of one kind of another. You have no idea of the comfort you live in, you are worried about a bearded monkey debasing you’re currency while I had family dragged from they’re houses, shot in the face and butchered, had my house raided every other month by armed and twisted cunts backed by the state in a concerted attempt to BREAK people, not just keep them in check with silly news stations and misinformation, but turn them into spastics. Its not evil and oppression you lot are fighting, its fucking government incompetence.

I am obviously out of my depth here. For that matter I will stop posting (don’t cheer until I leave the room). All the best.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 19:34 | 1249715 the misanthrope
the misanthrope's picture

BTFD ? breasts, truly fabulous (size) D's?

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 22:51 | 1250264 efiniti
efiniti's picture

Breasts!  They're Fucking D's!!

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 20:15 | 1249834 Captain Benny
Captain Benny's picture

Anyone that thinks that the big spot price drops in silver are scaring away us buyers may want to think twice and consult some real cold hard #s.  Besides all the first-hand reports of people talking with dealers that say sales are picking up and at all time highs, here is some info collected from APMEX:   https://docs.google.com/document/d/18U_lxCXwjymKoAVsrV-uEjaXFaP8JyZSpYFxf0ByMg0/edit?hl=en#

This isn't anything like the January dip, the market is accelerating... BTFD and watch it roar.

APMEX is moving 100 oz bars like they're candy.  The only bar they have in any kind of quantity is the JM bars and those they could be sold out within a week.  Take delivery.  The Memorial day sale arrived a little early... :)

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 00:30 | 1250412 Transformer
Transformer's picture

Hey, I'm on my high horse now.

So what the fuck is APMEX doing selling their bars so cheap that they run out of them in short order? 

OH, I forgot, it's that federal law that says that metals must be sold at Comex prices, I forgot!!!  sarc/off

APMEX is in the position, where they could be the pricesetters.  After all, read the name!! It says, "America Precious Metals Exchange"!!!! 

BOY!! are they ever missing out on an opportunity.  They could be setting their price based on Supply and Demand.  AND, they are so big, they just might become the price authority that every one else refers to.  Local dealers could be pricing their silver at "APMEX + $1.50" or whatever.  You go into your local store and the guy behind the counter says, "well, let me see I'll check the APMEX"

DAMMIT!!!  WAKE UP!!  NOW IS THE TIME TO BREAK THE BONDS OF SLAVERY!!!

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 02:58 | 1250536 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

Yes, please, save us from ourselves!

Or leave.

I'll choose the 2nd. Thanks.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 10:44 | 1250823 tmosley
tmosley's picture

As long as they are able to get supply, they are free to have whatever prices they like.

As the spot price continues to fall, they will find themselves unable to bring in supply, and will be forced to raise their premiums more and more.  This is already happening.  Eventually, they will realize that the premiums are greater than the spot price, and will stop taking spot into consideration.

There is no reason to expect this to be an instantaneous process.  It could take months or years, or it could happen in weeks.  It depends on how outrageous the CME continues to act over the coming days.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 14:14 | 1251109 Transformer
Transformer's picture

The CME has perpetrated a vast fraud.  The pinnacle of which was this past week, when everyone, and I mean everyone, who trades/buys/sells silver knew they were manipulating.  Throughout history, fraudulent activity cannot continue when all the players know the fraud.  I think this will happen very quickly, probably just in a matter of a couple weeks.  We, here, are at ground zero on this (Zero Hedge).  Thousands and thousands of people read this stuff.  You will see the change building momentum over the next days and weeks. 

And you know what?  I think the turning point was that CFTC hearing in March of a year ago.  The truth was stated by the GATA guys, and then that idiot,  that complete numbskull, Jeffery Christian testified and backed up the GATA guys.  That was it.  What a stroke of luck that the Evil Empire sent that boob to testify for them. 

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 18:22 | 1251628 SRSrocco
SRSrocco's picture

Captain benny...is that chart for all orders...or just BUY?

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 20:45 | 1249925 sabra1
sabra1's picture

i forbid my six year old son from reading ZH because of your avatar!

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 22:50 | 1250262 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Do you also lock him in a cupboard so that he doesn't see any cleavage out in the street?

Sun, 05/08/2011 - 09:06 | 1252706 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

Your bottle fed six year old son I presume?

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 20:52 | 1249944 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

Oh, I get it. People want to put their "junk" in that.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 21:35 | 1250052 clymer
clymer's picture

They bought time, but will not succeed in any permanent result unless Bennie pulls a Volker and raises rates to many many percentage points highr than is possible without worse consequences.

 

Silver is going to 100, then 500. Might take 18 months or 60.. Doesn't matter.

 

Learn it. Know it. Live it.

 

(and ignore robo's dramatic and fawning caricature of his feared slave master, mr. rich banker below)

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 13:12 | 1251151 Transformer
Transformer's picture

But, their time is up.  I think this is it, the end, of the Comex Silver Scam.  A scam can only continue when people don't understand what's happening.  They were so blatant in their manipulation on Sunday nite, and then continued blatantly all week, that only a total idiot could go on believing the lie.  So now, the industry starts to set their own physical price.  Market segments have been able to set the physical price for their products for thousands of years.  It's actually pretty easy.

Silver is going up, way up, when priced in dollars.  But the dollar is depreciating so quickly, that the actual reality, is that silver is going up some, the dollar is going down.  If you want to know how much silver is really going up, that's in the gold/silver ratio.  Want to know how much the dollar is really going down?  that's the gold price, not the USDX.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 22:06 | 1250126 Tail Dogging The Wag
Tail Dogging The Wag's picture

let's get physical, physical...

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 19:27 | 1249683 Hushups
Hushups's picture

Well at least you have the courage to admit that you're a coward.

 

Meanwhile the story of the 80's and the story of today seems to diverge from each other at the end point. In one story everyone is selling their silver, in the other story everyone bought everything they could.

 

**Spoiler Alert**

 

King Kong dies.

 

 

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 19:53 | 1249788 buck4free
buck4free's picture

Absolutely. Ben Davies alluded to this a few days ago when he was making his top-call on an interview on KWN. He said that even he had overlooked the amount of physical demand by small investors that had been spurred to action largely via the internet.

This is a bottom-up dynamic completely different from the cornering in Hunt's day.

King Kong can wrestle Godzilla, but he has no effective weapon against a global swarm of African Killer Bees.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 20:36 | 1249908 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Exactly. The internet has a lot to do with it. For one thing it created a wave. A big one (no tsunami metaphors tonight, sorry). It's not just about the ego of a single person or firm. For another thing, the internet has allowed access to information that the public was previously kept away from. The truth shall set you free. Finally, the internet allowed individuals to draw their own conclusions on economic data. The data is what pushed buying in precious metals. And it's going to continue as wave after wave of new entrants keep coming, learning and deciding for themselves that the only way to protect earnings, savings and wealth from the programmed and ordained decline in the value of currency is through PMs. 

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 21:09 | 1249983 fockewulf190
fockewulf190's picture

Uncle Gorilla is going to find out quite soon what kind of damage a silver bullet can do from a SLA rifle.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 22:28 | 1250209 tmosley
tmosley's picture

More like thousands upon thousands.

I envision the scene as something like this.  The kid complaining at the end is Robotrader.

http://video.adultswim.com/robot-chicken/silver-bullet.html

Of course, in our case, ALL the bullets are silver.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 00:02 | 1250367 FIAT_FixItAgainTony
FIAT_FixItAgainTony's picture

amen ! 

and with stabs in both achilles heel's with silver knives along with repeated raps to the head with giant silver shields covered in real shiny blinding silver spikes.

 

"where?  behind the rabbit?"

"i'm warning you..."

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 00:37 | 1250420 Transformer
Transformer's picture

Right on.  We are the killer bees.  We do not need slick New York con men in $2000 suits telling us what the price of silver is.  We have so much more power.  They have just mounted the biggest assault they can possibly do. And what?  All the dealers are sold out?  Producers, distributors, dealers,   WAKE UP!!!

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 20:08 | 1249840 flacon
flacon's picture

+ * 35.62!!!!

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 22:43 | 1250245 Dejean Splicer
Dejean Splicer's picture

One (1) 2011 American Silver Eagle Coin 1oz

Just ended. May 06, 2011 19:41:14 PDT

8 bids, winner $44.51.

http://cgi.ebay.com/One-1-2011-American-Silver-Eagle-Coin-1oz-BU-MS-/110...

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 00:04 | 1250370 FIAT_FixItAgainTony
FIAT_FixItAgainTony's picture

ahhhh.  another verification the paper silver price is not reality !

"Sweat not the alleged market corrections for they are as a fart is to the wind."

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 00:08 | 1250376 FIAT_FixItAgainTony
FIAT_FixItAgainTony's picture

glad i picked up 7 2011 ase's when they were 32.25 each with shipping!

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 00:37 | 1250422 Transformer
Transformer's picture

Yeah, and let those City Slicker con artists fart all they want.  Supply and demand rules.  Fuck the COMEX.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 10:18 | 1250782 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

uckem indeed.

 

 

 

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 11:14 | 1250861 mrgneiss
mrgneiss's picture

It's okay GZG, you can let it all out here, there is no Ynot2K looking over your shoulder.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 19:44 | 1251757 Stormdancer
Stormdancer's picture

rofl!  Good to see you too mrgneiss :)

Sun, 05/08/2011 - 08:57 | 1252697 mrgneiss
mrgneiss's picture

Great to see you as well Storm, keep up the good work!

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 22:43 | 1250248 Rick64
Rick64's picture

 Well at least you have the courage to admit that you're a coward.

 Would you face George Saint-Pierre in a UFC match?

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 22:56 | 1250274 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Irrelevant. This is asymetric warfare ... they have the printing presses and politicians, we have the internet and superior numbers (growing numbers, as people are awakened).

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 11:57 | 1250972 Transformer
Transformer's picture

Exactly!!  We don't need con men in $2000 suits to tell us the price of silver.  We have more silver than they do.  As far as physical is concerned, they are a very small part of the market, a couple million ounces every other month.  The mint sells more silver than they do.  We buy way more physical, probably 10 times as much as they sell.  What in God's name do we need them for?  Let them sell paper to whatever fools want to buy it.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 23:00 | 1250278 Bagbalm
Bagbalm's picture

Federal Reserve Notes were more desirable then.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 11:57 | 1250963 Transformer
Transformer's picture

Yep, you got it.  The Hunts almost had it.  If they would have just focused on real silver and backed off the Comex when the Comex started making noise, they could have pulled it off.  They already had a huge stash of silver.  Bunker had issues with "the northeast establishment" and didn't act rationally as a result.  Only, dig this.

WE ARE BUNKER HUNT!!!!   THEY CANNOT STOP US!!!  WE ARE MILLIONS OF KILLER BEES AND THE BEAR CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT US.    WE HAVE JUST ABOUT CORNERED THE SILVER MARKET!!!!

The $2000 suits are just about out of silver and now can only sell paper to each other, and whatever fools think they can beat them at their game.

 

 

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 19:31 | 1249699 Rynak
Rynak's picture

Updated list of probably paid trolls:

zer0henge
methman
dangertime
robottrader
z123
bob_dabolina
chaunceyG
bothsidesnow
grand supercycle
Blooter
texas gunslinger
hicham
theopco
vergeltung
unclebigs
darkmath
alexanderstollznow
gittyUP
AUD
hamywanger
wirtschaftswunder
alcoholic native american
scratch_and_sniff
muir
long-shorty
mick
ivars
Bazooka
Paper CRUSHer
mogul rider
red barron

 

Expect the following messages:

- "You are impotent and defeated, better give up now, you cannot win!"

- "Holy shit, do not buy now! Please, do not buy!"

- As usual lots of copy-paste spamming

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 19:35 | 1249718 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Actually I have documented last thursday to buy ZSL at 13.69

I documented this morning to buy AGQ at the open and sell after a quick bounce.

I not only loved silver this morning. I loved it enough to go double silver!

I am not silver's enemy.
I am silver's fair weather friend.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 19:38 | 1249736 Rynak
Rynak's picture

Sorry, seems like you got catched in the crossfire in a thread a few days ago, i try to be careful before including someone, usually waiting for 4-8 consistent posts in a row... but with the flood of shit in recent days, i'm not free of mistakes.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 19:53 | 1249783 bothsidesnow
bothsidesnow's picture

Look at you, you post as akak and rynak, pussy.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 20:08 | 1249848 tmosley
tmosley's picture

I think you are thinking of yourself there, Gold 36000.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 19:55 | 1249791 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Thats cool!

I do like to troll you guys every once in a while, but all in good fun!

After all we all hate the banking oligopoly. We got something in common.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 19:58 | 1249805 bothsidesnow
bothsidesnow's picture

Go and read my posts I'm long physical. I began to recommend shorting paper before the top to raise capital for additional physical purchase.

Once the likes of akak and TMosely started bashing me I decided to play the childish game with them.

Now I can buy more physical with my paper profit when it drops to 28-30 which is where I entered.

Some times you have to be a friend of paper.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 20:11 | 1249829 Rynak
Rynak's picture

Thanks for openly admitting it yourself.

(your motives change nothing about the consequences of what you're doing. I don't dislike you for your investments - i couldn't care less about them - i dislike you because you are intentionally lowering the quality of threads for your own amusement (or wealth, whatever))

Oh, and by the way, in your above post, you say

"Now I can buy more physical with my paper profit when it drops to 28-30 which is where I entered."

But then later down in this thread, just a few minutes later, you wrote:

"Silver will be going to 9 again. Then it will be time to buy."

 

You're just making numbers up randomly, fuckhead. You have zero credibility, troll.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 08:26 | 1250683 Dangertime
Dangertime's picture

I'm a paid troll because I bought puts for two weeks and on up to the top and sold them two days later for a 100% gain.

You people have serious issues.

 

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 13:47 | 1251186 tmosley
tmosley's picture

And claimed to have bought at the absolute low and sold at the absolute high and didn't know basic price action that any silver owner would have known and claimed that he didn't have to pay capital gains taxes and refused to tell us all where this magical fairy kingdom with no capital gains taxes exists.

I think you are the one with issues, newfriend.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 19:40 | 1249744 bothsidesnow
bothsidesnow's picture

More drivel about coordinated efforts, conspiracies, blah, blah. Conspiracies of paid trolls. You are delusional.

We are headed for deflation and possibly depression. Pump and dump. Pump and dump wave get's bigger until everything implodes. Time for the dump.

I'm not sure your physical will buy you anything in a deflationary environment. Perhaps you will be able to make a solar panel out of it. Some very good DIY sites on constructing solar panels. LOL

This message paid for by the Federal Reserve, COMEX, CBOT, TPTB and not endorsed by the Pimple (Precious Metal Sheeple). LMFAO

 

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 19:45 | 1249754 Muir
Muir's picture

TROLL

-

ignore him BTFDS!!

-

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 19:52 | 1249775 bothsidesnow
bothsidesnow's picture

Looks like at least one person agrees with me ;)

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 20:50 | 1249938 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Which of your alter ego's would that be?

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 21:46 | 1250089 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

It's just tragically funny to watch.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 23:07 | 1250285 rampancy777
rampancy777's picture

right? if these are the mental midgets we are up against... well that explains a lot!

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 21:19 | 1250013 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

Could be yourself...

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 19:49 | 1249778 Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture

deflationary environment with inflationary money printing and stimulus policies along with unheard of levels of sovereign debt.  Yep sure nothing to see here everything will work out fine. "my food and fuel costs more yet I'm making less money" can't see how that could cause a crisis of faith in paper money.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 21:21 | 1250009 Goldenhands57
Goldenhands57's picture

Gotta see that Global has hit the nail on the head. I keep bringing these points up to folks that I used to "werk with" at my J.O.B. before I earned my path off the cheesechasin rat-race.   They know I'm holding some physical (they think it's like a cookie jar of old dimes tho, how little do they know the actual!!)....mostly PM and more weighted in Silver now, and they get a little smirky today about AG (paper) moving down. Then I slam them "yes..your right, Silver Futures and ETF's took a hit, and so is your paycheck cause tell me honestly, how much does 4 bags of groceries cost you now compared to what you paid even 2 years ago for the same items..or filling up that ol 3/4 ton Pickup truck out front?.. did you get any 25 or 30% raises lately to offset that COLA?"   Gets a little quiet around the table then.  I tell them "you guys are on fixed incomes..YOU are accepting what someone else says your hours and days of your life are valued at in ever depreciating paper currency, and the loss is accelerating"   Alright..repeat.. how is all of this overprinting going to be resolved??? BADLY! It's a fools game and for now anyway; the Fools are steering the ship called America. There is no way to reason out of the fact that we have less purchasing power in our currency and soon, for the same reasons, will have MUCH less purchasing power. "It doesn't matter nearly as much how MUCH we earn..it matters how much earn AND what we can purchase with those earnings. PM's cannot go to ZERO..they can't! Paper sure as hell can go to zero and has many times proven it". Then I show'd them my Zimbabwe 100 Trillion Dollar Notes (2 of them). "Buy a round of beers with this if you can, my treat!!" Global is right...nooooo..no crisis in faith in the Fed here. Nah! Move along..everythings fine folks. Nothin to see. 

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 00:15 | 1250383 Americant Expat
Americant Expat's picture

Tell HBGary I said 'Hi'. Is your official position 'sockpuppet' or 'shill'?

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 04:36 | 1250579 jomama
jomama's picture

those jean shorts are so 1987.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 04:49 | 1250588 jomama
jomama's picture

.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 20:05 | 1249838 AUD
AUD's picture

You're full of shit. I lambast topcallingtroll regularly for being shit at calling tops.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 21:25 | 1250030 scratch_and_sniff
scratch_and_sniff's picture

You mean there is someone willing to pay me for taking the piss??? Jesus Chirst where do i sign up!!? Infact i want backdated payments, i have put some serious hours in ribbing you, its not fair i want my money. (nazi slut)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cud_k9f6tqk

 

 

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 21:39 | 1250070 penisouraus erecti
penisouraus erecti's picture

HAHA - some of the folks do protesteth too much below......

What, no Zing?

 

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 23:17 | 1250310 Rynak
Rynak's picture

Zing only really went nuts after i made that post.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 22:20 | 1250199 sgorem
sgorem's picture

28 MORE "JUNKS" AND WE'LL BE 100% SURE, WON'T WE RYNAK?? GOOD POST.....

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 23:12 | 1250297 indio007
indio007's picture

I never win anything .... *sniff*

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 08:07 | 1250663 mogul rider
mogul rider's picture

Fuck you mother fucker get me off that fucking list.I ain't no fuckign troll.

Give me you fucking address, I'm gonna fuck you up good.

 

I have more fucking silver physical than you could ever dream of

 

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 11:23 | 1250872 mrgneiss
mrgneiss's picture

Yes, get mogul rider off the troll list and onto the "those who really need meditation/medication" list.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 08:10 | 1250666 mogul rider
mogul rider's picture

fuck you asshole

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 08:07 | 1250667 mogul rider
mogul rider's picture

Get me off that list

You fucking pumping trolls do NOT run this site.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 08:26 | 1250677 mogul rider
mogul rider's picture

So - anyone who provides dissenting opinion is a paid troll.

Nice, OK well this site just became a poster child for fascism and had become nothing more than the Morgue.

When dissenting opinions are muffled there are words that describe.

I am not defined by some list that portrays me for somthing I am not.

I own more physical than all of you combined.

I work for my family not for the establishment.

But since I am labelled such I wil politely move on.

What used to be a great site is reduced homegeneous nothingness.

I would argue that you in fact are the trolls pumping silver for your benefit and luring people into some trade they do not undestand. 

Further, since dissenting opinion is not liked here, I would argue that you have become exactly what you supposedly fought

The evil empire.

 

 

Shame on Tyler for tolerating this.

Good luck to you. You'll need it. This week showed who the real trolls are. The pumpers here who lost people millions.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 10:14 | 1250784 SRV - ES339
SRV - ES339's picture

While I'm in the PMs will do well camp, I agree with much of what you say mogul... what a waste of time spending most of every post fighting over opinion and lashing out to defend a position.

We're all losing one of the central benefits of the site... the exchange of information and a broad range of opinion (you may not agree with many of them, but exposure to a range of opinion can only improve your knowledge base and strengthen your decision making process).

NEW RULE... we ban one word (troll) from the site (comment is removed), and we attempt to stay away from personal attacks... maybe we could try a counter opinion argument to make the point, and just move on.

Calling out "trolls" just brings them back for more... the BS is keeping me (and obviously many others) away from most ZH comments these days... and that's just a shame.

Please... just don't take the bait!

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 08:32 | 1250688 mogul rider
mogul rider's picture

Who died and made fucking police chief you sack of shit.

Because you dislike opinions you call us trolls>

You fucking fascist cocksucker - get ht efuck outta here.

 

You are the fucking troll asshole=

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 08:35 | 1250690 mogul rider
mogul rider's picture

Who died and made you fucking police chief you sack of shit.

Because you dislike opinions you call us trolls>

You fucking fascist cocksucker - get the fuck outta here.

 

You are the fucking troll asshole=

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 08:40 | 1250693 akak
akak's picture

I think you should post five or six more consecutive comments on this issue --- we're just not quite getting the message after only six.

And more cowbell ---- we definitely need more cowbell!

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 09:01 | 1250697 Rynak
Rynak's picture

Actually, i CAN NO LONGER edit that post (don't know if it has to do with junks, age, or replies).

But it doesn't matter. You know, i wasn't sure about you for days, gave you the benefit of doubt over and over, just to not make a mistake. NOW i KNOW that i made no mistake (well, okay, maybe you're not "paid"... i fucking couldn't care less.... paid for or not, same damage).

The list right now AFAIK has only one mistake. And that is that muir too got into the crossfire and shouldn't be on there, for which i honestly apologize (you can be quite annoying sometimes, but who isn't, me included? :).

Oh, and as for me playing the police? Where did i ever claim that privilege? All that post is, is a list by "someone" who claims that the people on the list are trolls. The rest, is a matter of trust and individual verification.

 

EDIT: Oh, and one more thing mogul rider. Of course, i cannot be sure about this, but the way you rant, and the kind of threats you do make, strongly remind me about "someone" very annoying, who recently apparently got ip-banned or got his account blocked.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 09:27 | 1250729 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Grand supercycle is not a troll. He's just shares his charts and ideas.

alchaholic native american is not a troll.

To be a troll you have to be a propagandist. Not a person with an opinion.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 10:04 | 1250754 Rynak
Rynak's picture

Just did some deeper digging:

The blog-spamming, contents and timing GSCs posts apparently made not just me consider him simply a troll. However, since even tmosley corrected others others on this assumption, i'll for now stop considering him as such.

I will not do the same regarding alcoholic native american.

 

But regardless of all this, it shouldn't even be necessary for people keeping their own mental list of members of the recent plague, just to filter the noise. The current junk system is inadequate. It needs to take into account "trust".... that is, it should matter who junks someone (when now, all junks count the same, which results in the dilemma: If you set the junklimit too low, then trolls can themselves abuse it to junk useful posts... and if you set it too high, then trolls can just spam the thread, so that the effort of junking all those posts each 50 times because unreasonable.... the result is something as what we have now: Out of dozens of trash posts, only one gets enough junks to be hidden.

If instead it would matter who would do a junk..... be that via a trust-network to "rate" people..... or be it simply a list of people whom's judgement you personally trust.... then stuff like "lists" wouldnt even be necessary.

The later idea would work like this: Lets say, you have a few posters here whom you trust. You enter them in some private list. Then, whenever a post gets two junks in total, by people whom you trust, the post contents get hidden, and the post is replace with a link ala "Click to show this post". The nice thing about this approach, is that which people's posts get hidden, gets hand-tailored to you - and it cannot really be abused - either you trust someone, or not.... no artificial "statistics" that can be exploited.

P.S.: There's a third possibility that while not as "smart" may technically be the most simple one: The ability to "ignore" people.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 11:25 | 1250886 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

You're following the google model. The google model seeks to "personalize" your searches through algorythms. You think ok what effect does this have. One affect is that you seperate people into reality camps. Once they are all sorted and seperated then you have some sort of "intelligence" with which to send people to troll those camps. This is why I run several os's. Because all I have to do is switch os's make different searches and I can get google to spit out what I'm needing to see. I should expand it to running different browsers as well but I hate having a ton of browsers.

The trolling has to continue.

I am a clairsentient. In that I can graft a persons energy onto my own energy and model them to some extent. Everyone is investing energy into this planet. Everyone wants a return on their investment. Everyone wants to control or steer how it turns out. I don't have problems with these basic rights that people have. I have big problems with people not playing fair. Or trying to guide people in one direction just so they can counter them. And I have a big problem with indirect communication. And I do tend to agree with you on alchaholic native american. I'm just not getting enough proof yet.

I'm a big believer in willing engagement and big believer in go away means go away. If people are engaging then so be it. If people crack and admit to owning more gold and silver than god yet post anti pm stuff on here. They are trying to keep something all to themselves.

It's like a fight game. You have to arm objectives. I said in anothe post. This place is all about bread and circuses. There's really nothing wrong with that. But the entertainment has become far far to manipulative and the bread has been poisoned for too long. Silver bugs armed an objective and now it has to be analyzed.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 12:34 | 1251054 Rynak
Rynak's picture

I completely disagree.

1. You previously pointed out the difference between trolling and having an unpopular opinion. Trolls of the kind that exist here, fullfil zero useful purpose. NOTHING. They are purely a parasitary pest. Everything would be better without them.

2. I have watched quite carefully which posts get unusually high junk counts. What i found was that people here - despite of all the claims of monoculture and nazi-like intolerance for alternative opinion - the non-parasites here are amazingly fair! The precision with which civilized, honest and open scepticism is seperated from plain flaming, spamming and trolling is very high. While the "popular opinion" is indeed biased in one direction, most members do not junk a fair, honest and nonmalicious counter-opinion.

Let me repeat this again, because its fundamental to the issue: The supposed nazi-like regime proclaimed by trolls does not exist here! It's an invention by them. What does exist, is a bias in popular opinion, not an exclusion of alternative views.

3. Who the hell are you, to forbid people from choosing with whom they wish to talk, and who's posts they wish to read? Do want to tell people "You may not ignore some member - you will be forced to scroll past his posts over and over, so that you are pushed to sooner or later interact with someone you do not like....... DINGDINGDING.... guess what the outcome of that is?

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 11:47 | 1250928 mogul rider
mogul rider's picture

We are trolls becuase we tell the truth and you were pumping silver at 49 bucks. You sir are a fucking asshole. If anyone is a troll it's you ya jackass.

 

If people could get their hands on you who lost their shirts on your brilliant pumpo they's choke the fuck out of you.

 

shithead

You should be fucking banned

 

Tyler

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 12:41 | 1251072 Rynak
Rynak's picture

Actually, i'm probably one of the most "bearish" PM-bulls here, but does that really matter anymore to you? You're just making up what you want to believe.... or more probably, the content of your posts don't even matter to you... just the emotion.

You should seek mental help urgently...... oh, and by the way.... stop cyberstalking, will you <watwashisnameagain>?

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 16:25 | 1251328 Rynak
Rynak's picture

POST EDITED: nevermind - looks like he actually meant tyler durden, not the user tyler. False alarm.

Sun, 05/08/2011 - 11:42 | 1252897 DrFever
DrFever's picture

As a long time silver investor (since 1994) I feel your pain mogul rider as I do feel that silver has been improperly marketed and many an uneducated fuck has been pumping owning silver for the wrong reasons.  I am so sorry that you got in near the top.

However don't capitulate...silver will recover.  We may not see the parabolic move that took it from $30 - $50 but it will get back there and surpass it.  The fundamentals have not changed. 

However, the pump jobs over the silver arguments, like Keiser's mis-informed buy silver crash JPM campaign only hurt silver in the short term.  You are never going to crash JPM when they fucking own everything. They simply change the rules of the game as they see fit.

If you believe inflation and I mean real hyper-inflation is inevitable then yes, you want to own silver.  But don't be buying it because you think that the world is going to suddenly run out of it. (i.e. shortage) .. see my post above for that argument's rebuttal.

Precious metals investing is always about shacking it away as a hedge against inflation.  It was never meant to be traded like some penny stock. Put it away as a form of retirment savings....that was the true intention of owning precious metals.

Sun, 05/08/2011 - 11:45 | 1252898 DrFever
DrFever's picture

As a long time silver investor (since 1994) I feel your pain mogul rider as I do feel that silver has been improperly marketed and many an uneducated fuck has been pumping owning silver for the wrong reasons.  I am so sorry that you got in near the top.

However don't capitulate...silver will recover.  We may not see the parabolic move that took it from $30 - $50 but it will get back there and surpass it.  The fundamentals have not changed. 

However, the pump jobs over the silver arguments, like Keiser's mis-informed buy silver crash JPM campaign only hurt silver in the short term.  You are never going to crash JPM when they fucking own everything. They simply change the rules of the game as they see fit.

If you believe inflation and I mean real hyper-inflation is inevitable then yes, you want to own silver.  But don't be buying it because you think that the world is going to suddenly run out of it. (i.e. shortage) .. see my post above for that argument's rebuttal.

Precious metals investing is always about shacking it away as a hedge against inflation.  It was never meant to be traded like some penny stock. Put it away as a form of retirment savings....that was the true intention of owning precious metals.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 11:47 | 1250940 buzzard
buzzard's picture

I read the list with growing trepidation wondering if my name would show up. Then i realized to my great satisfaction that I was in fact only me. Whew!

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 11:48 | 1250943 buzzard
buzzard's picture

I read the list with growing trepidation wondering if my name would show up. Then i realized to my great satisfaction that I was in fact only me. Whew!

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 11:56 | 1250966 ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

@ Rynak:

Your list is a piece of shit.  If you are going to waste your time making a list, why not waste some time studying the difference between spamming, trolling, and normalcy bias.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 13:12 | 1251152 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Colonel. Where have you been? You have not been around much.

We've gotten trolls to miss on the VM window postings. We've gotten them to admit to owning huge amounts of precious metals. Lot's of things been going on.

Catch up with current events first.

Hope you're doing ok.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 19:32 | 1249703 Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

Paper is their world, Robo.  I would never stand toe to toe with the Fed in a battle of paper.  But, to hold physical with an ever expanding money base amid ever contracting trust, is a war the Fed will never be able to win.

Excelsior, exempli gratia!

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 21:28 | 1250043 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

once again to my favorite "ALL TIME!" stolen post.. from akak?

 

Facts:

1. http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/BASE

Base money has tripled in 3 years.

2. M1 has continued to increase to its highest level in history.

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/M1

3. Same goes for M2

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/M2

 

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 00:02 | 1250363 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Important article from Patrick Heller:

 

By Using False and Incomplete Information, You Will Make Bad Decisions About Gold and Silver                
May 5, 2011 By Patrick A. Heller                                    

Back in January 1980, when the Hunt brothers pushed up the price of silver to $50, many politically well-connected Wall Street firms were facing massive losses.  Suddenly, the COMEX changed the rules for trading specifically to punish the Hunts and help these Wall Street firms recoup some of their losses.

Among the most outrageous rule changes was a prohibition against new purchases of long silver contracts on the COMEX.  Parties who already owned long silver contracts were restricted to only one option—to sell it to a party holding a short position.  Prices quickly collapsed.

When the December 2010 and March 2011 COMEX silver contracts matured, the available COMEX registered inventories were hopelessly inadequate to meet delivery commitments.  So, as COMEX rules permit, unusually large numbers of these contracts were settled for cash.  There were multiple reports of March contracts being settled for cash at prices more than 30% above the spot price.

As I wrote in CoinUpdate.com last week, there is also a developing shortage of available physical silver outside of the COMEX.  The condition has only worsened in the days since.

On Friday last week, another squeeze was developing with the maturing May silver contracts.  Gold looked poised to jump to $1,600 and silver to surpass $50.  Neither made it.  In fact, silver has dropped nearly 30% from its peak in April and gold is down about 6%.

It looked to me that the Wall Street firms that have huge short positions in gold and silver were on the brink of default on these contracts, if not outright bankruptcy.  So, it is not a total surprise to me that there have been numerous rule changes in the past two weeks by the COMEX and some trading houses to force down the silver price (in particular) and gold.

Many people make investments borrowing money to leverage their results.  As prices rise, it is sensible for the exchanges to raise margin requirements.  However, the COMEX has now raised margin requirements for silver contracts five times over a two week period!  Before these hikes, the minimum margin per contract was $8,700.  On May 9, when the fifth increase takes effect, it will take more than $21,000 minimum per contract!  Note that the last four margin requirement hikes occurred after the price of silver was falling—which does not make sense unless the real purpose is to suppress prices!

Some Wall Street firms have raised the margin requirements for their own customers to as high as $30,000 (see my May 3 column at Numismaster.com for details).

The net effect of these rule changes is that it has left many leveraged investors unable to meet these margin calls.  As a result, a significant number of long contracts have been liquidated this week without regard to the price.

In addition, the mainstream media has given more coverage to the silver market this week than it seems like they have given it over the past few years.  Virtually all of this coverage is along the lines that there are major sellers out there, everyone is taking profits, the “bubble prices” of gold and silver have peaked, and the like.

Each of these themes is filled with incomplete or inaccurate information.  If you refer only to these stories, you will run a high risk of making an incorrect decision about whether to buy, hold, or sell gold and silver.

For instance, one of the stories is that Carlos Slim, the current richest man in the world, has presold more future gold and silver production from the mines that he owns.  I have not seen one story reminding people that Slim’s companies last October reported that they had pre-sold 27% of anticipated gold production through the end of 2013 at an average price of $1,189 per ounce and 43% of expected silver production through the end of 2013 at an average price of $18.71 per ounce.  Although Slim is apparently savvy enough to own such mining interests, he is obviously getting bad advice or making poor decisions on how to maximize his profits in these markets.

Much has been made of George Soros reporting that he has sold a significant chunk of his gold holdings, while little has been reported that John Paulson’s much larger holdings are being held until gold reaches $4,000 per ounce.  Among my own customers, there are those who have sold seven figures worth of paper silver contracts above $49 per ounce on the anticipation that they would be able to replace them with physical silver at lower prices.  These customers of ours expect gold and silver prices to be much higher than they reached in April.  They were not getting out of the market, they were just trying to maximize profits.

As for the claims that the “bubble” has burst, the quantity of open COMEX contracts in the gold and silver markets proves that to be false.  When a bubble market starts to tumble, the quantity of open contracts drops sharply.  The number of COMEX gold and silver contracts has only dipped slightly.

As prices started to fall, some unleveraged owners also opted to take some profits and reduce their holdings or get out of the gold and silver markets.  Because of the heightened volatility, other potential buyers have chosen to do nothing for the time being.  Although these actions helped push prices down further, the main force behind falling prices was the COMEX and Wall Street firms’ increases in margin requirements.

As you might imagine, I have been deluged with visitors, callers, and emails this week asking me what is happening and what will happen in the future.

I do not know where the current bottom will be for silver, but I do expect it to reach bottom soon.  One theory is that the silver market has touched bottoms in recent years when the amount of leverage in commodity contracts is only 7 or 8 to 1.  If this holds, that would point to $34 as being the bottom for silver.  Another theory is that the bottom will be reached when silver gets down to its 200-day moving average.  Right now, that points to a bottom of about $28.00.

I don’t think it is a matter of if, but when silver will recover.  When it does, it will recover quickly, though maybe not as fast as it has declined this week.  It is obvious that the US government, its trading partners, and allies have decided to try to cap the price at $50.  I have little doubt that this will eventually be surmounted—almost certainly this year.

Above all, remember that the fundamental reasons for owning gold and silver for protection against calamities affecting the value of paper assets such as currencies, stocks and bonds have not changed at all as a result of this week’s decline in prices.

Here are just some of the reasons why you should hold and consider adding to your precious metals position:

  • The US government is still running such huge budget deficits that it now has to borrow 43 cents of every dollar it is spending!
  • During all of this turmoil, the value of the US dollar has continued to decline almost every day except today!
  • US Treasury debt is so unpopular among foreign and domestic investors at current low interest rates that the Federal Reserve is now purchasing 85% of all long-term issues!
  • State and local governments (including public school districts) have not really done anything to cope with the more than $1 trillion in unfunded retirement liabilities.
  • I have not seen the prices of any food products or gasoline drop by 30% this week!  In fact, worldwide food costs are rising at a faster pace this year than ever before!
  • The US government is faced with an impossible resolution of its inflation of the money supply (also called Quantitative Easing 2) program that ends June 30.  The government has to make a decision which of two methods it will choose to further destroy the value of the US dollar—either by stopping quantitative easing or by continuing with a new program.
  • The jobs market continues to be horrible.  As I understand it, the US needs to create 115,000 new jobs every month so that the rising population’s unemployment rate will be unchanged.  Even if the Bureau of Labor Statistics reports a higher number of jobs, you have to back out this figure and also the number of double-counted new jobs attributable to the birth/death adjustment.
  • Residential housing prices have now declined lower than the so-called market bottom in March 2009.  In the latest report, 34.5% of homes sold were bank-owned properties, a much higher proportion than in the past.  Don’t be surprised of home prices continue to fall.

I could go on, but I think you get the picture.

If you make your decisions about what to do about gold and silver on the basis of accurate fundamental information rather than misleading and incomplete mainstream media reports, you will obtain better future results.  There have been numerous short term price drops over the past decade, none of which lasted.

What we are seeing this week, in my judgment, is actually more like a desperate last ditch effort to delay the inevitable explosion in gold and silver prices.  The extremity of these recent actions leads me to expect soaring prices sooner rather than later.

P.S.  One last tip—if you purchase physical metals and don’t leverage your purchases, you won’t find yourself forced out of the market against your will.

Patrick A. Heller

http://news.coinupdate.com/by-using-false-and-incomplete-information-you-will-make-bad-decisions-about-gold-and-silver-0814/

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 00:16 | 1250389 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Thanks Rocky. I just posted this on Mish's board.

It saddens me to see such shallow and weak analysis on silver over there.  

 

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 04:36 | 1250577 jomama
jomama's picture

yeah, i'm totally devastated by his short sighted perspective. not.

what's going through his mind? profit first, honesty second.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 11:47 | 1250933 mrgneiss
mrgneiss's picture

Ego.  He has been wrong on gold and silver for so long - this is a nice little victory that gives him validation - but as we all know that will be very short term.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 15:14 | 1251293 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

No, to be fair Mish likes gold and sold his silver to buy more gold. I won't slam him for that move as it worked out well for him.

On silver, however, he's totally out to lunch. He won't even entertain a rigged COMEX scenario with the SEC and CFTC asleep at the wheel. I also told him GLD and SLV are just another Enron/Madoff ponzi disaster waiting to happen. Some over there listen to me on that, but certainly not Mish.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 00:21 | 1250391 FIAT_FixItAgainTony
FIAT_FixItAgainTony's picture

always liked to occaisionally read Pat's take on things.  he brings it home here again.  thanks for sharing this post rocky.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 00:29 | 1250405 Founders Keeper
Founders Keeper's picture

[What we are seeing this week, in my judgment, is actually more like a desperate last ditch effort to delay the inevitable explosion in gold and silver prices.]---Patrick Heller

Terrific article/post. Thanks Rocky.

IMO, the reason TD posted the main article is to give readers an idea the lengths to which TPTB will go to suppress PMs. (Some posters seem to think TD is suggesting the circumstances of 1980 apply today, i.e. history repeating.)

I wouldn't touch paper PMs. That's a fools game. Anyone trading PMs has no idea the gravity of the economic crisis unfolding.

Silver spot 35 FRNs, 45 FRNs, 75 FRNs. Who cares---it's all FRNs. A promise given you by a corrupt, dishonest, and bankrupt government.

 

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 00:33 | 1250413 I am a Man I am...
I am a Man I am Forty's picture

it's a good thing to get the leveraged guys out of the market and find a base from there

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 04:01 | 1250562 jomama
jomama's picture

nah dude, you jacked it from me, and I jacked it from here:

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2011/04/29/warning-silver-will-fall-by-66.aspx


On April 29, 2011, at 3:52 PM, whereaminow wrote:

 

Facts:

1. http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/BASE

Base money has tripled in 3 years.

etc...

Sun, 05/08/2011 - 01:01 | 1252402 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

Sorry Jo.. you shall get your due from me... love the quote and love you Bro for sharing truth with "We the Sheepeople"! God Bless Ya! for trying to smartin me up some!

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 19:32 | 1249710 jomama
jomama's picture

i liked the photos of babes better

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 19:32 | 1249716 Robot Traders Mom
Robot Traders Mom's picture

Pussy. No wonder you get picked on so much at school

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