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How The CBOT, Comex And CFTC Coordinated To Break The Last Silver Price Surge

Tyler Durden's picture





 

Just like QE is nothing new in the monetary arena, and has seen some incarnation at least since the early 80's primarily in Japan, so parabolic commodity price surges have occurred periodically, most notably in 1980, when Bunker Hunt brought the price of silver to over $50. However, unlike any time before, never in the history of the world have we seen a coordinated worldwide monetary stimulus via relentless credit money "printing" courtesy of global central banks. In that regard, this time really is different, as there is no other remaining backstop to the world financial system: the global banking cartel has used up all its bullets and now can only double down in the most nightmarish Martingale system ever conceived, where each iteration means further fiat absolute value destruction (on a relative basis it simply means a race to the currency bottom, whereby definition only one can be in the lead at any given moment: usually the one with the biggest printing press, and greatest deflationary threat). And while many still believe that QE2 will be the last of domestic US monetary easing episodes, as Bill Gross noted earlier, it is very possible that the US may be headed into a triple-dip recession, for which the only prescription will be another QE round (with political gridlock in DC at unseen levels no fiscal stimulus is even remotely possible). If this happens, precious metals will once again surge. The only question is what will the exchanges do after the next gold and silver spike? Indeed, as we suggest, margin hikes are just the beginning. For a complete playbook of how the CME may proceed after the margin hike approach fails, we once again go back to the curious case of Bunker Hunt. Below, from the Playbook biopic of the Texas billionaire we posted yesterday, we present the walk through of how the CBOT, Comex and CFTC tried to break silver's back. Back in 1980 they succeeded. Have they, and will they succeed this time?

...The CFTC and the officials of the two exchanges decided to have a little talk with the Hunts. Explaining that they feared a squeeze, the exchange officials asked them if they would consider selling some of their silver. The brothers’ answer was no. What was more, they said, they intended to keep buying silver and to keep taking delivery on it. They thought silver was still a good buy, even at the  new high prices. Besides, as Bunker put it with typical understatement. “If you sell, you get into a tax problem.”

On top of all that, Bunker really did believe in silver as a long-term investment, the underpinnings of a new economy. He did not say that in so many words to the CFTC men and the exchange officials, but he did give them a glimpse of his basic apocalyptic vision when he revealed a previously undisclosed feature of his silver play: the fact that he was moving his metal to Europe. This time, he did not fly the bullion overseas in chartered jets with cowboy guards. As he told the CFTC, Bunker simply traded 9,000,000 ounces’ worth of metal he held in Chicago and New York exchange warehouses for an equal amount of bullion held by other traders in London and Zurich. The reason? As he explained to the CFTC and the exchange officials, he feared that the U. S. Government might expropriate silver from Americans just as it had expropriated gold back in the Thirties.

But Bunker’s assurances that he was willing to cooperate as much as possible apparently mollified the CFTC officials; the C.B.O.T., however, concluded that it was time to act. In a move aimed directly at the Hunts and the other big buyers, the Board of Trade raised the margin requirement and declared that silver traders would be limited to 3,000,000 ounces of futures contracts. Traders with more than that would have to divest themselves of their excess futures holdings by mid-February 1980.

With that, the battle lines were drawn. Bunker let it be publicly known that he thought the C.B.O.T. was changing the rules in the middle of the game, and vowed to fight the limits all the way. Privately, he regarded the C.B.O.T.’s action as another conspiracy against him by the Eastern establishment. And for once, he had a good prima-facie case.

The boards of both the Chicago and the New York exchanges were composed not only of “outside” directors but also of representatives of the major, usually Eastern-based brokerage houses. Later testimony would reveal that nine of the 23 Comex board members held short contracts on 38,000,000 ounces of silver. With their 1.88 billion dollar collective interest in having the price go down, it is easy to see why Bunker did not view them as objective regulators. At the same time, though, the C.B.O.T. restrictions made Bunker even more bullish on silver, because, as he put it, “they show a silver shortage exists.”

Bunker appeared to be right. Through November and December, the price of silver rose faster than ever. By the last day of 1979, the price reached an astronomical $34.45 an ounce. Meanwhile, the Hunts’ silver holdings kept increasing. By the end of December, the Hunts and their Arab partners held 90,300,000 ounces of bullion that the CFTC knew about and another 40,000,000 ounces the Hunts had stashed in Europe. The Hunt group also held about 90,000,000 ounces worth of silver futures, most of them due for delivery in March on the Comex in New York.

By this time, the CFTC became concerned that the silver positions held by the Hunts and the Conti group were “too large relative to the size of the U. S. and world silver markets.” Subscribing to the philosophy that the futures market was not a substitute for the cash market, the commission determined that the time had come to stop Bunker’s perverse buying spree. A meeting to decide what to do was set for January 8, 1980.

Then the Comex stepped in. On January seventh, the exchange announced new position limits restricting traders to no more than 10,000,000 ounces’ worth of futures contracts. The effective date of the limits was set for February 18. The day after the Comex announcement, the CFTC announced that it was backing the exchanges new limits.

Bunker was incensed. “I am not a speculator. I am not a market squeezer,” he protested. “I am just an investor and holder in silver.” Taking the offensive, he accused the exchanges and the Government of destroying the U. S. silver market by changing the rules in the middle of the game. “The market will move to Europe,” he predicted ominously. “The silver market in this country is a thing of the past.”

Strangely enough, the price of silver fell only one day in the wake of the Comex announcement, then started climbing even higher. Part of the reason for the continued price spiral, according to an after-the-fact analysis by the CFTC, was that Bunker kept buying silver. On January 14 and 16, the Hunts made agreements to take future delivery on 32,500,000 ounces of silver (mostly in London) at various dates that spring. The largest of those contracts were with Englehard Minerals. On January 17, silver hit a record high of $50 an ounce.

Bunker could hardly be incensed about that. On that one day, the worth of the Hunts’ silver bullion holdings was nearly four and a half billion dollars. Since most of that silver had been acquired at less than ten dollars an ounce, they had a profit of over three and a half billion dollars. Bunker and Herbert had made nearly as much money in the past six months as their late father had made in his entire lifetime, at least on paper. Of course, if Bunker actually sold all that bullion, he would face enormous tax consequences. The trick now was to figure a way to utilize those huge gains without having them decimated by the taxman.

As Bunker pondered that, the exchanges decided to impose their most stringent restriction yet. On January 21, the Comex announced that trading would be limited to liquidation orders only. There would be no more futures buying. The game was closing down.

The next day, the price of silver plunged to $34, a drop of ten dollars in a single day. It stabilized shortly after that, and remained in the mid to high 30s for the rest of the month. But in February, the price began to slide downward again. By that time, silver was literally coming out of the woodwork. In response to the new high prices, old ladies had been selling their tea sets. Families had been hocking their silverware. Coin collectors had been divesting themselves of their collections. In January and February alone, an estimated 16,000,000 ounces of silver coins and an additional 6,000,000 ounces of scrap silver had come onto the market. With the price of silver now dropping, some of those small sellers and small investors began complaining to the CFTC about the exchange restrictions...

Ironically, while the paper holders of silver may be complaining to the CFTC now, the inverse is true about physical supply-demand dynamics. Indeed, instead of a scramble to convert physical silver to paper, we continue to see the inverse as a material amount of silver wholesale retailers continue to be out of actual silver.

And, as was posted yesterday, those who wish to read the full story of Bunker Hunt and the still historic surge in silver, may do so here.

 


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Fri, 05/06/2011 - 20:00 | Link to Comment vocational tainee
vocational tainee's picture

i get the feeling the image you choose fit`s you

...

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 20:04 | Link to Comment Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

Spank that wayward mistake of yours and then give him the news; "Your Mamma was a slut and we don't know what your father was!"

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 22:53 | Link to Comment DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

His father was blind, we know that for certain!

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 19:35 | Link to Comment the misanthrope
the misanthrope's picture

LOL -- largely ostentatious locution

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 19:33 | Link to Comment Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

.300 Winmag in the eyeball would slow that fella down.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 19:56 | Link to Comment Jaw Knee Cash
Jaw Knee Cash's picture

The .300 WinMag is my most favorite caliber. I shall probably load some this weekend. Also a big fan of Bastiat. Nicely done.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 21:50 | Link to Comment txsmithfix
txsmithfix's picture

"The Law" by Bastiat. Required reading unless you are a cop, judge, lawyer, politician, or just name a looter employed at our expense to destroy US.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 20:06 | Link to Comment JoeSexPack
JoeSexPack's picture

Silver bullet...

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 21:32 | Link to Comment JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

can I have my silver bullets with a tungsten core please? thanks!

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 23:13 | Link to Comment rampancy777
rampancy777's picture

STEEL CONEZ !!!

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 20:09 | Link to Comment tmosley
tmosley's picture

The people were swayed by the greed induced by the enormously high interest rates at the time to stick with paper.

You really think they are going to stick with a system that offers less than 1% interest in their savings while subjecting them to 6-10% inflation or worse?

You REALLY think that?

Or did you think at all?

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 20:34 | Link to Comment ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

I don't know what way it is going to go but I have to agree with Robotrader on this one.

I do know the FED wants to CRUSH PM's and hard.

They want to chase any cash they can into treasuries, equities, muni-bonds, anything but PM's.

Just wait, next price spike in Gold and Silver  - which I do think will come at a little over $50/oz silver and $1,500 for gold (~$55 and $1,600?) - will be about the time for the FED to hike rates and knock PM's down again and get their inflation train really moving (they'll say they did it for the savers and the seniors on fixed income, watch).

I like PM's but the only way I can buy in right now is the PM mining stocks which lag the physical and have not followed along very well the past five months.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 20:54 | Link to Comment EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Yeah, good luck with hiking rates - and making the housing crash even that more severe in the process.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 23:36 | Link to Comment Founders Keeper
Founders Keeper's picture

[Yeah, good luck with hiking rates...]---EscapeKey

Agreed. The Fed is damned if they do and damned if they don't. This game is coming to an end---how ever agonizingly slow it feels.

 

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 01:44 | Link to Comment ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

EscapeKey and Founders Keeper,

I hear you, but think about it; does the FED give a damn?

No.

They can crush the housing market.  What happens?  Real Estate industry has a hissy fit, people lose their homes, banks get A$$ET$ BABY!

Banks get to foreclose on properties with help of bought courts and State Attorney General's, then Banksters rent out the houses to desperate homeless waifs and refugees or those just kicked out of their houses on Government unemployment and assistance while drawing food stamps.  Thus, WalMart (retail), Ag., Banks all happy.

Who loses?  Why, the American legal citizen household.  But WTF else is new!?!?

Disgusting, ain't it?

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 09:02 | Link to Comment EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

They absolutely do care.

The banks are sitting on tons of MBS backed by mortgages. The mortgages go sour, the MBS'es go sour, the banks go *boom*.

Yeah, you can make the argument they will just keep printing and bailing, but if they escalate the amount of homeowners going bankrupt, which will create an even more hostile jobs market, the amount of protests will sharply increase, tax intakes will implode, and even the bought politicians will have to take note.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 09:36 | Link to Comment Founders Keeper
Founders Keeper's picture

[...but think about it; does the FED give a damn? No.]---ebworthen

Hi ebworthen. Consider things are far worse than you're assuming.

Does the Fed care about housing? Won't the banks gladly assume residential assets and become landlords of last resort?  We are at a moment in history that eclipses rational questions and reasonable assumptions.

The Fed does not care about housing per se. But, this is beside the point, and something most of us will realize only too late. The Fed and the banks have already lost control. At this point, they are only trying to hide the fact they've lost control.

You see. The game is over. There are many competing factions who realize this fact, and are moving with plans for replacing the old game with a new game, locally or globally as each case may be.

 

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 17:20 | Link to Comment The Fonz
The Fonz's picture

I am a little suprised that people are focusing on the fed making decisions. I don't think they weild enough power to decide what will happen next or when.  I think the Chinese will be making the point that denying them oil, making war at their back door and borrowing from them is going to result in a lesson in THEIR time frame and for their own reasons.  

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 18:03 | Link to Comment AgShaman
AgShaman's picture

Uncle Benny sent his nephew Timmy the "G" on a trip to China awhile back to find out what our Landlords wanted US to about our Shit-she-ation.

I'm guessing they directed him to implement more fractal manipulation....soze they could expect fairly low prices on PM's and commodities....with which to surreptitiously divest themselves of their "wheel-borrow tinder"

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 21:02 | Link to Comment Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Well of course the fed wants to crush pm's hard. Our monetary system is entirely derivative. IE it's entirely based on the price of gold. The fed wants to have a huge money supply that spends like it's a small one. That's why it became legal to own gold when we went off the gold standard. No one in their right mind would allow a gold to fiat conversion system without an internal price discovery within the country. You couldn't do international settlements at all. The fed is broke. It's beyond broke. The gold and silver movement will simply expose them to how warped the system got and just how colluded it was. You would expect the wealthy to maintain a huge amount of gold. But the US wealthy followed the gentlemans agreement perfectly and destroyed the price discovery mechanism.

Just take the price of gold in one currency find the price of gold in another currency and find the ratio. Then look up the currency pairs and it will exactly match the ratio. You can have 10 times more dollars than euro's but if gold is available in US at a lower price the value is higher. People are just quite literally eating thier lunch and drinking thier milkshake when they drive up prices of precious metals.

 

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 21:49 | Link to Comment Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Well, sorry to inform you that Robo's been wrong for 11 years running now. Good luck taking advice from one the worst PM posters here at ZH. The guy doesn't know shit from Arbuckles coffee when it comes to gold and silver.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 23:54 | Link to Comment Founders Keeper
Founders Keeper's picture

[Well, sorry to inform you that Robo's been wrong...]---Bay of Pigs

Hi Bay.

As a stand-alone statement, "Anytime you are playing around with gold or silver you are the enemy of Uncle Gorilla..." RobotTrader is absolutely correct, IMO.

Gold and Silver are the enemy of centralized unlimited governments, private banks, commercial banks, central banks, career politicians, and large businesses infected with greed and corruption. 

Gold and silver are the friends of individuals, honest entrepreneurial businesses, and decentralized limited governments.

Ever will it be so.

 

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 00:29 | Link to Comment FIAT_FixItAgainTony
FIAT_FixItAgainTony's picture

AND gold and silver are Lawful money as well as biblical money.

no matter how you slice paper, it still burns.

f^@k unredeemable fiat, shine on silver!

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 00:31 | Link to Comment Founders Keeper
Founders Keeper's picture

+1

I like to call it honest money.

 

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 00:50 | Link to Comment AgShaman
AgShaman's picture

those are all good....+2

I tend to use "original money"....as per payment to the fighting men of the Roman Legions from many years back.

Whatever the specific names....the American/World public are growing ripe and ready for your explanations. I trust you will not let them down when they are ready for their education

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 01:58 | Link to Comment ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Unfortunately, Rome devalued their currency (gold) in a similar scheme.

"ON THE CONTINUOUS DEVALUATION OF THE ROMAN CURRENCY"

 http://www.rmki.kfki.hu/~lukacs/ROMLAS.htm

Similar to printing paper, but in a time when you had to have coin, you debased the coin of the realm (tungsten, anyone?).

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 02:03 | Link to Comment AgShaman
AgShaman's picture

The soldiers of Rome were smarter than their present day counterparts working for the US Military complex. They were fine with fighting for the Roman Empire...but expected to be paid in silver coinage of some weight and purity.

The same cannot be said of present day military service members. Their fiats will garner 1/7th the amount of the precious...in only 10 years time. They are clueless to the erosion of their purchasing power.

What comes to mind is what the Lizard King's errand boy (Henry Kiss.) has to say about the "useless eaters" serving in the military.

We will become Rome...the fall is insidious...slow...and drawn out stealthily by shylocks. It did not happen overnight.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 10:27 | Link to Comment Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

Lizard King's errand boy (Henry Kiss.) ... perfect haha.

Rome's empire lasted a lot longer (400 AD) than the amerikan one precisely because they used hard currency and its debasement was slower through dilution.  In a fiat regime, the cycle goes much faster ... I haven't found any examples of a purely fiat regime lasting longer than 41 years ... the timing from Aug 15, 1971 gets its end close to Dec. 2012 matching up nicely with Mayan calendar .. perfectly ripe for political exploitation.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 12:10 | Link to Comment Founders Keeper
Founders Keeper's picture

[Whatever the specific names....the American/World public are growing ripe and ready for your explanations. I trust you will not let them down when they are ready for their education]---AgShaman

Hi Shaman. Frankly, I'm still working on my "education." I'm knee deep in history books. Seems UPS is at my curb every week dropping another Amazon box at my doorstep. Also, many thanks to ZH for helping me to understand the machinations of Wall Street's inner workings.

The U.S. has a tragic history with banking. From the very start, to this day. Some of the questions that drive my study: When, how, and why do the wheels keep falling off? What did our Founders intend, and how were their intentions derailed? What's the solution, and how can it be implemented in a constitutional federal republic?

Thanks for your post about "original money" and the Roman soldiers.

I figure when the time comes for "educating" willing listeners, common sense will be the head master.

As for "educating" the TPTB, I expect the 2nd Amendment will be the head master. "Good morning students. Welcome to American History .308. Let's begin, shall we." (Let's hope it doesn't come to that.)

 

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 12:58 | Link to Comment AgShaman
AgShaman's picture

Founders Keeper, you're "armor" is your education and your knowledge about these things...you are becoming battle ready and protecting yourself from their brainwashing propaganda tactics.

I'm quite comfortable in the knowledge that there are people like you out there...thirsting for this knowledge about the construct that was built to lock us into our serfdom. You represent the people that become my "heroes" to look up to and emulate....not the idiots on the "teevee"

Many think I have taken the apathetic and indifferent path of someone who has "checked out" of society...and cares about nothing. For many years I've been doing what I believe to be the most viable contribution I can offer....by waking "sleepy ones" up to the scam of the tyrants and their fractional reserve ponzi's...as well as how to come by insurance policies like PM's.

Many of the newsletter writers comment on how they are astounded that 1% of the populace is currently involved in PM's. It does not surprise me one bit. That falls in line with the amount that take educational lessons to heart and willfully act upon them. It's a sad reality....but ignorance is in fact bliss...and many choose to remain in their zombified slumber. However frustrating....I'm resolved to continue to try and do my part...in the best way I know how.

I have modified my tactics slightly this past year...and instituted RULE #1 in the process.

I force others to acknowledge RULE #1....before I continue with the lessons of what PM's are all about. This rule deserves top billing for sure....and I hope others are using it, knowing it, and living it....with the upmost discipline.

I like the fact that there are multiple terms for the "precious" like the above posts show. It will enable more of us to try and wake people up to the historical references of money.

Thanks for your comments....it brings optimism, solace, and better sleep...knowing there's alot of "C/Kats" like you out there choosing enlightenment over slavery 

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 16:48 | Link to Comment Founders Keeper
Founders Keeper's picture

[Many think I have taken the apathetic and indifferent path...]---AgShaman

Shaman, thank you for your kind and thoughtful Reply.

I'm embarrassed to admit I'm not clear about "Rule #1." Waking up folks to the scam of tyrants and fed ponzi? Please reply. I've had a terrible time waking up the "sleepy one's" in my circle. I welcome any suggestions.

Please post more info about the Romans. My Roman history is weak at best. Rome's fate seems far more relevant today than even the Hunts bros.'

As for my own awakening---such as it is---I take no credit. The only thing I figured out by myself is that you can't get out of debt by borrowing. Everything after that the credit goes to greater men.

I value common sense, trust my gut, pray, and have been driven forward by a weird innate and powerful patriotism. (I think I inherited my patriotism from my dad, who is ironically quite liberal.)

Best Wishes and God Bless.

 

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 19:44 | Link to Comment AgShaman
AgShaman's picture

Founders Keeper,

I'll try to keep it brief.

ebworthen provided a link above concerning the Roman currency devaluation that could occupy a good bit of your time if your looking to broaden your history. Many of the sites that deal with PM's have archives with articles that touch on it as well (also must read lists of good books) if you're looking to compare the past with present day. The Roman soldier was also payed in salt (which was a big part of life back then for a number of reasons)...hence the words soldier and salary. The denari and similar coins are numismatics....which is IMO, like telling Dorothy to take a "walk" wherever you damn well please. Remember...this is a PM bull market we are in...and most likely at the halfway point in it to boot....so i would never encourage getting "cute" with historical numismatics.

The main point I was trying to make was a "numbers game" which is both curious and creepy when you wrap your head around it and run the numbers. 10 years ago...I would guess a junior enlisted (E-1 to E-4 paygrade) could most likely expect to be paid somewhere around 300 ounces of silver equivalent in pay per month (5 dollar silver). If a non-commissioned enlisted stayed in the military for 10 years from that time...it would not be outlandish to expect your take home pay to at least double...perhaps more in that frame of time depending on how well you moved up the enlisted pay grade ladder.

Now I invite you to change that 300 or so ounces of silver and move it to a setting (perhaps 600-700 ounces would be conservative)

Now bring up a historical chart from kitco....then connect the dots and run the numbers.

Enter....erosion of purchasing power...and the most simplistic way to understand how fractional reserve banking and expansion of the fiat money supply enables tyrannical govts. that are in bed with central planning bankers to construct a behemoth of a Miltary Complex (aka: War Machine)

This is just another way (of many) that historians can draw parallels between US and the Roman Empire. The Romans were paid in useful commodities (silver and salt)....if the American soldier demanded the same....the game/fraud would have been bankrupted/finished long ago.

As to RULE #1....it is the most serious of subjects for holders of PM....and IMO more important than any other....especially now, since the PM ownership landscape is beyond a state of "flux"....and those of us involved must remain tactically superior now more than ever.

Sorry for the length....badger me again about RULE #1...I promise you I'll give you my thoughts. I must however "piss off" to the grocer...and grab a six pack of beer (a nice little evening walk/exercise).

Have a little teaser to warm up your mind....find the Giordani Bruno article here (about the nouveau "domestic terrorist")

Thanks for the wishes and blessings (they mean alot coming from a patriot)

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 22:14 | Link to Comment Stormdancer
Stormdancer's picture

I'm always interested in hearing more effective ways to communicate with people who might be able to engage and start waking up so I'm going to badger you for your thoughts about Rule #1 as well.

BTW...I was unsuccessful at locating the Giordani Bruno article...got a link?

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 23:44 | Link to Comment AgShaman
AgShaman's picture

http://neithercorp.us/npress/2011/04/a-day-in-the-life-of-a-%e2%80%9chomegrown-terrorist%e2%80%9d/

Divisionary tactics....there's always another bogeyman. The gubmint...their handlers...and their sycophantic squires will let the serf's know what parties qualify

Sun, 05/08/2011 - 00:22 | Link to Comment Stormdancer
Stormdancer's picture

Thanks.  I had read (and enjoyed) the Bruno article but didn't recall the name.  I was already aware of the things he's talking about and appreciate the way he communicated them. 

Now, how can I improve my efforts to communicate with those around me?

What's your Rule #1 all about? :)

 

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 23:04 | Link to Comment Stormdancer
Stormdancer's picture

doppelganger

Sun, 05/08/2011 - 00:44 | Link to Comment Founders Keeper
Founders Keeper's picture

Thanks, Ag.

 

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 22:43 | Link to Comment OldTrooper
OldTrooper's picture

Yeah, that's what the Fed wants to do.  But there's a difference between what they may want to do and what they will have to do.

Sheeple delay the day of reckoning.  You've almost escaped the herd.  Don't let the dogs round you up for the next round of shearing.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 00:46 | Link to Comment Transformer
Transformer's picture

It's not gonna happen.  BECAUSE what is happening right now is the physical price is decoupling from the spot price.  By the time silver gets to $50 again, the whole distribution system for physical silver will have figured out that they do not need the Comex spot price any more.  Price will be set on supply and demand.  There will probably be traders on the Comex trying to fuck each other over.  Let them.  The spot price doesn't matter.  All the suppliers of the market are figuring it out right now.  In two weeks, physical silver will have it's own pricing mechanism, and we shall see what evolves.

We don't need slick New York con artists to tell us what silver should sell for.  That is their game and everybody is waking up to the fact that we do not have to play their game.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 00:59 | Link to Comment AgShaman
AgShaman's picture

Perhaps....but I think the umbilical cord will have the necessary fabric to get stretched farther....much like the resiliency of the US Dinar, and the calls for it's demise that will most likely be earlier than actuality. The gamblers of all markets are like heroin addicts....and not really all that willing to give up their addictions. It will be like pulling teeth without novacaine (or whatever it is they will be using to snatch out my wisdom teeth)

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 01:28 | Link to Comment Transformer
Transformer's picture

Are you kidding?  It's already happening.  The last to change will be the local coin stores.  Go to
First Majestic and check their pricing at their silver store.  Go to ebay and check it out.  Silver Eagles are priced everywhere on supply and demand.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 02:45 | Link to Comment AgShaman
AgShaman's picture

I am fully aware of the dynamics involved...as well as all the usual suspects and outlets by where I can pick up the precious. My buying stopped when silver crested $20...and my stack DCA'd at $10.

No...I am not kidding. Yes...the "uncoupling" as you say is happening...verified by the huge spikes in premiums which confirm that silver is no longer just a commodity...and has gained acceptance as money.

My predictions of this present day volatility were a year off the mark...and a year early. So yes...I think the Comex will continue to suffer "black eyes"....as far as a default and a complete decouple....I'm not sure it will be as soon as alot here are stating. If so...and it happens that way...my stack is built and my food/needful stockpiles as well...I'm ready.

I don't entirely disagree with what you say...maybe more on the timeline...and was expecting a currency crisis to help with the "trigger" effect. Mainly because such a large portion of society remains blissfully ignorant to the happenings you speak of....they are busy with their "reality tv" shows and sidestepping austerity on their way to pick up their food stamps from the Gubmint.

I still believe the paper traders are in the driver's seat...with deeper pockets (the Bullion Banks having the deepest).

Of course if you could find a way to convince the American consumer to buy physical...instead of the other crap they are addicted to....it could get sped along a bit I guess.

Maybe i'm wrong....maybe you're right....just throwing out thoughts based on my own experience and research.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 20:37 | Link to Comment LaughingMan
LaughingMan's picture

Agreed brother. Good to see another St Pierre fan. Not the best fight this last weekend but still a fun show.

 

BTFD people!!!!!! Just added another 65oz

Buying at SilverGoldBull (love the name!!!!)

Second favourite store only after Al Simmon's Gun Store

 

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 21:14 | Link to Comment the misanthrope
the misanthrope's picture

I was looking at the silvergoldbull a few times last week and earlier this week. Did you notice it was saying a number of the silver coins were out of stock, but now tonight all except the buffalo coins? Anyway, how was/is the service, shipping etc.?

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 20:48 | Link to Comment Old. No. 7
Old. No. 7's picture

Gold is winning. Hands down. Everything else is just noise.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 20:56 | Link to Comment tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

I'd rather fight evil and lose than play along and survive.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 00:09 | Link to Comment The Disappointed
The Disappointed's picture

Better to die as a freeman than live as a slave.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 00:28 | Link to Comment FIAT_FixItAgainTony
FIAT_FixItAgainTony's picture

amen to that !

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 21:17 | Link to Comment Ricky Roma
Ricky Roma's picture

+1 Freakin' Hilarious!  The gorilla has more bananas than all of us!  Too bad, we get to eat dirt.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 21:21 | Link to Comment Dr. Gonzo
Dr. Gonzo's picture

Ken "The most dangerous man in the world" Shamrock is the pound for pound best fighter in the world and Uncle Gorilla isn't going to be King of the Hill forever.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 22:12 | Link to Comment acabrer
acabrer's picture

Robo I like your comments the other muppet babies have become totally unsound over silver. Nothing ever but  "buy physical well over spot price waka waka" . Two months in less than a week "POOSH''

 

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 23:29 | Link to Comment mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

That 800 pound gorilla has been dead for a long time.  The little monkeys keep expecting it to wake up, and when people say that it's dead the monkeys tell them that they're not being realistic.

RoboTrader is not only a shill, but is the least skillful one here.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 19:23 | Link to Comment The Lawnmower
The Lawnmower's picture

Been buying at Monex. They have supply.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 21:32 | Link to Comment JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

they seem fair on pricing.. not to high but not any super duper deals.. but they are always there..

 

I was wondering if anyone had ordered during this last price push the ball under water scheme by the evil powers that be?

 

ANYONE! that is a regular and that can be trusted! buy anything from Monex at a low price? in bulk? Thanks in Advance!

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 19:28 | Link to Comment TroyPDX
TroyPDX's picture

I'm curious... has anyone noticed an increase in the number of paid trolls on other forums coinciding with this orchestrated take down? This is the only board I read consistently enough to have noticed the influx, but I'm wondering if it's going on elsewhere too.

 

I just get the feeling they're pulling out all the stops. Desperation? Or just business as usual for these vampire squids as they try to finish the job of transferring all wealth to themselves.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 20:16 | Link to Comment JoeSexPack
JoeSexPack's picture

LA Times silver article had a troll saying...

'You can dig it out of the ground for $5!!!'

Not named Meth Man, & he didn't last long.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 21:01 | Link to Comment duncecap rack
duncecap rack's picture

I thought Johnny Bravo was the dig it out of the ground for $5 guy.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 23:09 | Link to Comment DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

I'm too new to know Johnny Bravo.  Where do trolls go when they die?  Is there a troll-heaven or is troll-hell the only option?  It does seem that troll-reincarnation is real.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 23:30 | Link to Comment mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

They go 'apologize' to Darth Cass Sunstein, who explains to them (as they strangle) that if they had been sufficiently familiar with constitutional law they would have accomplished their infiltrations more effectively.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 07:54 | Link to Comment gall batter
gall batter's picture

is there a troll purge-atory?  

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 12:04 | Link to Comment ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

Generally speaking, they are reincarnated.  Some of them have more past lives than Shirley Maclaine.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 21:53 | Link to Comment Eternal Student
Eternal Student's picture

Yes, I've noticed the increase as well. Though I have managed to put one in a credibility box, part of which was effective the next day. I haven't seen him around much since then, but I'm saving that link should he start up again.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 19:27 | Link to Comment topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Now just remember boyz the next time an anonymous troll tells you to buy ZSL or AGQ dont ask any questions. Do whatever you can to raise money.

Max your credit card
Rob a bank
Pimp your sister
Or even suck a dick if you have to

BUT JUST GET THE MONEY AND DO WHATEVER THE TROLL SAYS!

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 19:33 | Link to Comment RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

If Ampex is out of stock then call CNI, and ask for Dave Edwards.

He has virtually every item in stock, except for AE boxes.  But the Canadian Maples are much nicer anyway.  There is absolutely no shortage of physical silver.  Virtually every time I've walked into his shop, he always has plenty of inventory.

In fact, the price of Monster Boxes outright crashed from nearly $25k/box to$19k/box in one week!

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 20:14 | Link to Comment tmosley
tmosley's picture

Hey dumbshit.  CNI lists everything it deals in.  They don't have half the shit listed there, more than likely.  Last time I called looking for COMEX deliverable bars, they said they could get some for me in a few weeks.

Christ, you really don't think, do you?

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 22:09 | Link to Comment faithfulwatchman
faithfulwatchman's picture

HaHaHa! Nice call.  A half-wit is really dangerous with a itty-bit of knowledge. Sometimes when he presents his views he continues to reveal his voidable short-circuited brain...

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 12:09 | Link to Comment ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

Correct.  Available, and available for delivery "with slight delay" are two different things.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 16:29 | Link to Comment Keri at Bankste...
Keri at Bankster Report's picture

I'm long silver, but I have to be honest: I'm not seeing this shortage that some people on ZH are talking about.  There was huge selling in physical and paper this week, and so delivery a week or two out fits the bill.  Even if we only allot one oz physical to every 20 oz paper, a freakin' 30% dip doesn't happen because "no one is selling."  It isnot an ilusion: people are selling, just like when it was going up, people were buying (though it is certainly true that the CME moves have made the selling much more exaggerated than the buying, but the CME hates PM, and we all know that).

Mind you, it looks like people are buying, also, because we have a little support here at $35.  Feels wobbly to me, though.  Personally, I have not been this uncertain about the silver market since Feb 2008, and I know that while Bear Stearns was a tasty snack, no one is going to touch the almightly JPM.  Monday is a big day, I think, because it the last of the (latest) margin hikes, so we'll see who wants to dance and who wants to hold up the walls.

Also, as for references to the eBay-meter for "true silver prices" (and I'm not saying that tmosley is relying on the eBay-meter or anything like that), can someone who really, truly believes in this "indicator"please give me some solid evidence for it?  Anyone who has sold on eBay before knows that between their fees and their daddy's (Paypal's) fees, you are looking at a 12 - 15% hit if you sell on eBay.  Sure, there are some people right now paying $50 for one-oz Scottsdale bars and $45 for AES's, but the person selling them is selling them for $39 and $37, before having to pay to ship them.  This is effectively a sale of AES for spot on ebay from the perspective of the seller, and the person who bought it at $45 is paying $3 plus more than if they'd had gone to APMEX.  Right now, you can get $2.50 or so over spot for AES at APMEX: eBay is not a measure of the silver market anymore than it is a measure of any other market (my opinion).  The spread is too high and there is a serious information gap.

I'm not knockin' eBay buyers or sellers: I've bought silver (little stuff) on eBay and even sold a little on eBay before.  But I'd be much more confident of a craigslist-meter (but of course sales are not recorded or databased on craigslist).  Let us get the face-to-face, no-dealer/no-middleman/no-Paypal price of silver.  The COMEX is supposed to be that (and we all know that it is not, not for silver or any other commodity), and if it ever turns into thtat, we longs can't have it both ways: silver longs want people to take delivery to quell the fraud-based fake paper comm market, yet a lot of people here are getting upset when COMEX hike margins requirements.  Of course the timing was coordinated, predatory, synced with elitist banks shorts etc, but WTF?  Do we want a physical market or do we want a paper market?  Put me in charge of the CTFC and there would a 100% margin requirement---because there would be mandatory delivery for anyone wanting to "invest" in any commodity.  Back to the old school, baby, and take your toilet paper with you: if you don't want to hold, stay the hell out.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 21:35 | Link to Comment JW n FL
JW n FL's picture
by RobotTrader
on Fri, 05/06/2011 - 19:33
#1249713

 

In fact, the price of Monster Boxes outright crashed from nearly $25k/box to$19k/box in one week!

************************************************************

who has monster boxes  for $19k? I will take 12 tonight!

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 19:35 | Link to Comment Trillax
Trillax's picture

No doubt in my mind Comex worked with many people to stop the drive up.

On a side note: Fannie Mae seeks (SIC: additional) $8.5 billion from taxpayers

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/fannie-mae-seeks-8-5-billion-taxpayers-21503380...

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 19:36 | Link to Comment Tracerfan
Tracerfan's picture

Silver Eagles still going for $45/ounce on Ebay.

 

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 21:04 | Link to Comment Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

When you add hidden commissions and other "charges" it's all still ~ $45 for Silver.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 00:50 | Link to Comment Transformer
Transformer's picture

The rein of the Comex is over.  The physical market will set it's own price, based on supply and demand.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 19:39 | Link to Comment plata pura
plata pura's picture

One of you learn'd blokes explain to i just how these downside insurance instruments (zsl) in paper silver actually pay 2x?  

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 19:52 | Link to Comment Kickaha
Kickaha's picture

Just a guess here, but maybe it is derivative, a paper document, whose value is pegged to 2x the price of silver.

You can play the $5 blackjack table, or the $10 blackjack table.  Same game, different stakes.

 

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 19:39 | Link to Comment Tracerfan
Tracerfan's picture

Make that $46/ounce on Ebay

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 00:55 | Link to Comment Transformer
Transformer's picture

What??!!  But there's rules on Ebay.  Silver can only be sold for up to $2.50 over spot.  Report them.  All silver pricing must be set by the Comex.  It's the law!!!!   sarc/

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 19:43 | Link to Comment Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

One funny part is how those chose 50 for their attack this time again.  Even in their nutbag attempts to suppress silver, they can't accept inflation exists.  Of course this attack is going to fail.  People are buying physical because it is cheap.  No amount of naked shorting SLV is going to put silver back in the COMEX.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 19:48 | Link to Comment bothsidesnow
bothsidesnow's picture

ZH does not believe in Technical Analysis or think beyond bashing the TPTB. 

It's a classic double top like I said in my posts from a couple of weeks ago the big bag holder from the last top was going to exit.

Silver will be going to 9 again. Then it will be time to buy.

This message not endorsed by the Pimple (Precious Metal Sheeple).

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 20:15 | Link to Comment flacon
flacon's picture

I sincerely HOPE paper silver goes to ZERO, because that is where it belongs. Soon enough nobody will be able to buy any silver because nobody will be selling ANY silver at any price. They will, however trade a few ounces of silver for your car, your home, your land, your wife, and your nice suit - but they will not trade silver for paper. 

 

Silver to zero is when the fun REALLY starts. Bring it on!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNpoV-0YyvA

 

 

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 20:14 | Link to Comment the misanthrope
the misanthrope's picture

nine? really? how does TA lead you to nine? better save that comment for posterity.

care to expand a bit on that?

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 20:28 | Link to Comment Rynak
Rynak's picture

Forget what bothsides now writes. He is just making up numbers randomly.

Previously in the thread, he wrote:

"Now I can buy more physical with my paper profit when it drops to 28-30 which is where I entered."

But then just a few minutes later he in the above post he writes:

"Silver will be going to 9 again. Then it will be time to buy."

 

The troll brigade has done this repeatedly in recent days. The idea is to randomly make up silverprices way below the current price, and then tell you to wait for it to drop to that price. Since those prices will probably not be reached, you will end up not buying (or buying at high prices), which is precisely what they want.

In principle, its just telling you "Don't buy now" with different words.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 00:57 | Link to Comment Transformer
Transformer's picture

You're so right.  Silver has escaped from the Comex.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 19:44 | Link to Comment bruiserND
bruiserND's picture

Yo, conspiracy theorists,

Wanna get a purple veined diamond cutter?

Investigate the fact that CBOT C.C. & CBOT Chairman Ralph Peters was long the physical and the contract limits in precious metals futures all the way up in 1980 , liquidated all the long futures and reversed those positions to contract limits short futures then dumped the phhsical on the market as he raised margin requirements and called for liquidation only transactions .

There are those who also believe that Ralph staged his own death and retired to his island in the Bahamas to avoid retribution from the wimpering Hunts and Wall Street firms like Bache and the federal tax authorities that the politicaly connected had called for his head litteraly & figuratively. 

NOW , everyone ready? The same crap happened with credit default swaps, Goldman, Citi & AIG only on a grander scale only the public replaced the clearing firms and the Treasury made the margin call and guaranteed the "trades" with $787 billion extorted from Bush and the Congress at the point of the "marshall law gun".

OK Tyler...stick it in it's Fight Club time. 

There never was nor will there ever be anyone better than Ralph Peters, not Tudor Jones , not Burry not anyone cause it was all Ralphs dough.

 

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 10:27 | Link to Comment Muir
Muir's picture

http://www.hbo.com/movies/too-big-to-fail/index.html

for the real truth

edit Sat May 7: /sarc

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 21:01 | Link to Comment Old. No. 7
Old. No. 7's picture

Hank Greenberg makes him look like a piker.

http://www.beyondpoliticsand911.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=208

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 19:47 | Link to Comment Muir
Muir's picture

Colonel Smithers: We, here at the Bank of England, Mr. Bond, are the official depository for gold bullion... just as Fort Knox, Kentucky is for the United States. We know, of course, the amounts we each hold, we know the amounts deposited in other banks, and we can estimate what is being held for industrial purposes. This allows our two governments to establish, respectively, the true value of the dollar and the pound. Consequently, we are vitally concerned about unauthorized leakages.
James Bond: I take it you mean smuggling.
Colonel Smithers: Yes. Gold, gentlemen, which can be melted down and recast, is virtually untraceable... making it, unlike diamonds, ideal for smuggling... attracting the biggest and most ingenious criminals.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 23:25 | Link to Comment jomama
jomama's picture

/yawn

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 19:58 | Link to Comment Hooter Shaker
Hooter Shaker's picture

I started buying at $12-$13 and then quit at about $25.....been on the sidelines until this morning.  I'm not sure if this is the bottom, but if it is I didn't want to miss it so I started buying again.....and I'm not the only one.  There were a lot of people at the local PM dealer and only 1 person was selling.

 

 

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 19:54 | Link to Comment Jaw Knee Cash
Jaw Knee Cash's picture

My local dealer was swamped with silver orders and was sold out of most 1oz bullion coins when I arrived at lunch to pick up a couple tubes of Maples.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 20:20 | Link to Comment gall batter
gall batter's picture

called a dealer this morning @ 10:00.  no silver. 

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 20:32 | Link to Comment Josh Randall
Josh Randall's picture

+++ -- Excellent  -- see thats what I'm talking about, everyone that is a perma bear hasn't tried to purchase physical from a dealer nor talked to anyone that could give them a view on the street.

More personal stories and less advertisements for random sites that are all show and no go when it comes for physical delivered and billed as promised

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 00:37 | Link to Comment FIAT_FixItAgainTony
FIAT_FixItAgainTony's picture

agreed josh.  last time i saw my favorite local dealer it was all scratch and dent silver that was left unless you wanted 2011 ase's for +$10 over spot or some 2008 philharmonics mint sealed for +$8.  no maples.  i'll see what he has tommorrow.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 20:40 | Link to Comment live free
live free's picture

During the intial run up, there were lots of sellers in my local coin shop.  Now... nothing but buyers that I see... small and large.  No sellers seen in about 7-8 weeks... I don't think people have much "junk silver" to sell now... all buying.

I made the trip after work today to pick up some nice bars... and the dealer said it would be a very busy day tomorrow... physical is MUCH different that scared paper day traders.

B

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 21:26 | Link to Comment FriedEggs
FriedEggs's picture

Same here in my City in Ontario...

I went to the only coin shop here in the city to see what he had and he said to me, "Sorry, im not selling any silver(mostly junk and olympic rounds) today." I asked if anyone was coming in and hes said lots of people coming wanting to buy, but no one is selling. He bought some last week at $42-44Can and he doesnt want to sell until the price goes back up a bit.

To this very day, on the local 24hr Toronto news station they have three(3) seperate jewellery stores with commercials asking people to bring in their old unwanted gold - Oren, Harold and this guy---> Russell Oliver.

Up until aprox 4 months ago, he was exclusively asking for gold until one day his new commercial came on with his hole face...hair...and melon painted in silver.lol. Yup, he wants your silver now too(because he is the cashman.lol)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OF3cYlgLXbc

Hold and hang tight boys and girls...

Fried(e)

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 17:17 | Link to Comment geekgrrl
geekgrrl's picture

At the two coin shops in my area there has been strong silver buying since November, with a small amount of selling. Even the dealers are surprised by the large number of regular folks looking to buy, and both have expressed exasperation at how difficult it has been to find silver in any form, but especially ASEs. From the sellers I've talked to, they were mostly selling because they were unemployed and needed cash, not because they wanted to part with their PMs. This is completely understandable, but like Stormdancer, I hope to make it through the fiat collapse without being forced to sell. 

Compared to the situation in the late '70s where one firm was buying much of the silver, in this case it's thousands and thousands of small investors trying to protect what little wealth they have. The killer bee analogy made upthread was right on. It doesn't matter how much Comex raises the margin limit if the increase in demand is not leveraged. In the 70s, it was the paper price that pulled up the physical, whereas now it is the physical price that is pushing up the paper. It seems to me that what we are seeing is effectively a public declaration (in the form of action, not words) that silver is real money and no amount of manipulation will be effective in slowing the move out of FRNs and into PMs. The more they knock down the price, the more we'll BTFD.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 01:03 | Link to Comment Transformer
Transformer's picture

What an astute business man your dealer is.  Seems like he could have maybe raised his price a bit, huh?  I bet the Comex police were in earlier and told him he had to strictly adhere to COMEX guidelines.  (sarc)  You might mention, next time you're in to make a buy, after you purchase, that the whole physical market is moving to supply and demand and no longer getting price discovery from the Comex.  He could raise his price and make more money.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 19:56 | Link to Comment rjudson
rjudson's picture

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1384274/Osama-Bin-Laden-t-shirt-...

 

Silver is not money yet, perhaps some of the trolls could be friends

 

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 19:59 | Link to Comment rjudson
rjudson's picture

own physical, trade paper, nothing makes me happier than shorting SLV, knowing the price is going down and hoping for a default in the crimex

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 19:57 | Link to Comment FunkyOldGeezer
FunkyOldGeezer's picture

Just love the amounts of Silver the Hunt Brothers were audacious enough to buy. More than is currently at the Comex.

 

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 01:05 | Link to Comment Transformer
Transformer's picture

We are just like the Hunt bros.  We have bought more than they did.  We own it outright and take it home.  There is nothing those Wall Street crooks can do about it.  The physical price is uncouplling from the spot price.  Watch it take off now.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 19:58 | Link to Comment rjudson
rjudson's picture

and by the by hello folks

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 20:02 | Link to Comment slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

i concur w/ the reasoning.  fiat v. PMs.

however, i think the bullion banks, many of whom most likely shorted all the way, or much of the way, up to ~50 also shorted @ 50, and w/ the options clean-up, got better.

if you shorted from 16 to 50, 33 has got to be a freaking improvement, i wld think.  break-even, or better.

i do not feel there is a shortage of silver.  just like in '80, tons & tons are @ the smelters, getting ready for market.  many popular "google page #1" coin/bullion dealers sold their inventories in the buying craze.  a lot of silver was "recycled" last year.  this year, jaws will drop at the recycled amt.  

i'm just one person, but when i was personally, physically, in locations where gold & silver was being bought & sold since abt. $40, abt 2-3X was being sold by joe & mary as bought.  but i was not @ scotia macotta or apmex.  i was not "downtown".  people were bringing in sterling, though, and bags of silver coinage.  there are many silver markets.  i have sold silver coins in coffee shops & bookstores, casino's, buses.  be surprised who you meet, out there.  i've also not traded.  tried to buy/sell & failed.  i'll generally buy for myself or others under spot.  especially when the price is trending higher. 

i stopped buying about when the price was here, last winter.  and, i'm still stopped. 

"no man alive" knows how much silver is above-ground and unencumbered.  all we have are "experts" who give estimates. 

coupled with the GDP "growth uncertainty" (even sales, revenues, & margins in inflated dollars suck), here, there, & everywhere, the foot just came off the gas. 

it's not my foot.  in spite of the fact that markets gyrate or get gy-rated, there is still economic activity.  people make, grow, ship, sell, & do things.  people mine silver, purify it, fabricate it and use it to blow up & kill other people.  big bidness, too!

play your own hand.  everybody else is.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 21:59 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

Keep up the good work Slewie! Smiles.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 20:15 | Link to Comment RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

Anybody looking for Monster Boxes for sale, here are the best prices.

Yeah, you won't get them right away, but you can at least order now and lock in these prices.

Same thing.  Physical price has tracked the COMEX price tick for tick, except for a small change in the premium.  These boxes were getting hawked for up to $27k last Friday on this same site.  Anyone who waited a week to buy these save themselves $7,500, instead of piling in last week when a "COMEX default was imminent and JPM was going to fail!"...LOL...

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 21:30 | Link to Comment penisouraus erecti
penisouraus erecti's picture

Awesome, finally some useful info

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 20:22 | Link to Comment Kina
Kina's picture

So what is different this time?

The US economy is irretrievably broken. How do they escape a $1.4T deficit when Japan is again in strife, Europe grinding along with PIIGS stinking up the scene.... There is no way to expand the economy to take care of that deficit. It is just going to grow and grow and the US will need to visit its credit card.

How the heck can the US get out of this one except by default, hyperinflating or going gold standard? There is no way out that doesn't involve a brick wall and lots of noise and chaos.

 

The US economy is over the cliff and they are selling the story that all is ok, since we haven't hitting any ground yet.

We have the moronic shills for TPTB in MarketWatch and so on writing crap about silver and anything else that is required but very little about the truth of the matter.

 

At the end of the day the equity lovers will by wiping their arses with FRN and stock certificates.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 01:11 | Link to Comment Transformer
Transformer's picture

The only exit left at this point is Hyperinflation.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 20:33 | Link to Comment RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

Ryan Puplava sold all silver from client accounts last week.

He correctly picked the exact top (of course, he will be excoriated as at "top picker" by General Jim) almost to the day.

He expects silver to go to $28 - $30 and bottom out in August, when the 200-day finally catches up.

http://www.financialsense.com/contributors/chris-puplava/silvers-destiny-with-200

The rest of you guys were listening to those clowns on KWN and General Jim's "$1,650 is in the bag!" nonsense and got punched in the face by Uncle Gorilla.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 20:36 | Link to Comment tmosley
tmosley's picture

Damn, you're sounding desperate, boy.

What's wrong?  Scared?

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 21:00 | Link to Comment EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Fucking hell, you really are stepping up your anti-PM trolling. One would think someone with no vested interest in PMs would only dedicate a minor amount of time to float his "theories", but you actually sound desperate.

Is your paycheque dependent on the amount of FUD you spread?

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 21:23 | Link to Comment RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

Sorry, I was junked repeatedly when I mentioned over and over:

- PM stocks were risky and subject to smackdowns by Uncle Gorilla's Thugs

- REITs and consumer stocks were safer bets and unfazed from all this debate about inflation/deflation or risk on or risk off.

- I was repeatedly ridiculed and called a chicken for being invested in utility and Dow stocks that had low volatiliy and paid dividends

- Way too many guys here were chest-beating about how JPM was going to fail and the COMEX was about to default, and I warned you guys about all the Carnival Barkers in the gold space who were being ridiculous.

So after getting junked about 500 times and laughed off this forum, I figured that it was about time to set the record straight so you guys would protect yourselves next time from getting massacred and torn apart by the limbs by the PigMen and the Washington Plutocrats.

I am amazed how so many guys here still don't get it.  But I guess lots of guys here don't trade for a living, so they are just fine by getting their accounts beaten down by being invested in the wrong sectors.

 

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 21:33 | Link to Comment tmosley
tmosley's picture

So, 100% in 12 months ain't shit?

I'm sure you're making a much better return.

*rolleyes*

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 21:51 | Link to Comment Burnbright
Burnbright's picture

So what are you going to do when you are wrong?

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 21:59 | Link to Comment tmosley
tmosley's picture

Go back to posting chart boners and claiming that General Jim and Co are getting beat up, even as he loses out to their physical gains by dozens of percent.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 00:32 | Link to Comment Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

- PM stocks were risky and subject to smackdowns by Uncle Gorilla's Thugs

It's just a simple miscommunication. He thinks were idiots playing wth PM STOCKS.

You know those things started from warren buffets 130 million ounces in 2006 that he sold to them for 7.50 an ounce that's run by blackrock who is having a huge purchase of japanese realestate shit all over their head. I'm sure it's totally legit. Didn't zerohedge have a thing about that etf. And didn't trolls all brag about how it had been audited and failed to mention the like 10300 bars that were um reclassified during the audit.

I don't know what is stupider. Trying to claim price victory over something that is going to destroy a bullshit ETF or that they are so amped up to try to generate a fear wave that they keep tripping over their own tongues.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 02:38 | Link to Comment acrabbe
acrabbe's picture

+1

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 22:02 | Link to Comment penisouraus erecti
penisouraus erecti's picture

My guess is that would never happen ............

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 22:09 | Link to Comment Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Robo, you want people to respect your views but all you do is throw out demeaning posts about people who are far more qualified and successful than you are, or ever will be.

Give it up. The 11 year Golden Bull market says you're wrong. All your wailing and knashing of teeth makes you look even more sad and pathetic as you scream "it's over!" all the time.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 22:55 | Link to Comment samsara
samsara's picture

 But I guess lots of guys here don't trade for a living,

But you knew that already didn't you?  You know a large percent here buy,  and get Physical Delivery. 

You don't do that with ANY of your trades.  You don't take physical delivery of anything you "Buy". 

But you know that Ramora,  So why do you bait the forum? 

You know we buy, 'Accept Delivery' and keep it.  And will not sell while the game is still going on.   We buy it to use in the 'Next' economy.

 

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 23:23 | Link to Comment Richard Head
Richard Head's picture

Let's hear some more about TZOO you asshole.  That's the stock you pretended not to own after it tanked, despite shilling it repeatedly for weeks/months.  Lobotomy-faker is a fucking fraud.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 23:26 | Link to Comment Fred C Dobbs
Fred C Dobbs's picture
$1764 Angel Starts To Shine

Posted: May 06 2011     By: Jim Sinclair      Post Edited: May 6, 2011 at 2:50 pm

Filed under: General Editorial

Dear Friends,

Today’s action totally eliminates all and any concern for the price of gold. Today’s action lights up the $1764 Angel in gold.

Technical damage always requires technical repair. That type of price action is a perfect set up for a major launch of the gold price in June.

Relax and enjoy your protection and insurance positions.

Regards,
Jim

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 10:21 | Link to Comment SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

BTW, BTFD means "High Beta Juniors."

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 23:44 | Link to Comment DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

So RobotTrader why are you here?  Real question.  I've appreciated the different slant you bring and of course being a happily married man I never look at the photos, ever.  You take a boatload of abuse which is in my opinion less deserved than the real sock puppets trying to degrade this site.  I don't see the payback for you and we humans almost always do what we do for some sort of payback.  Not to get too touchy-feely, just curious.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 08:13 | Link to Comment EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Fair enough Robo, and while I certainly do think these comments section should allow space for the contrarian point of view, you do realize the way you present your information at times can seem gloating?

Ultimately, however, a significant proportion of PM investors here aren't in the PM game to trade. It's an insurance policy, and day to day movements in the price of paper really makes zero difference.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 10:56 | Link to Comment tmosley
tmosley's picture

Problem is, it ignores reality.  In fact, on damn near the whole way up last month he was still "gloating" about how badly those guys were doing.

He made NO MENTION, and CONTINUES TO MAKE NO MENTION of their performance relative to his own.  No mention of silver being up 100% in 12 months.  No mention of it being up 400% since 2008.  

He doesn't think about ANYTHING.  He just babbles empty words and pretends like he has done any better than any fucking loser daytrader.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 21:20 | Link to Comment the misanthrope
the misanthrope's picture

God damn it robot brain I keep losing my place because of all that crap you keep posting. Enough of your nonsense. Post us a chart of JDSU and Nortel from '99 to '02 and then a silver chart. bubbles for sure, in your mainline.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 21:30 | Link to Comment penisouraus erecti
penisouraus erecti's picture

Dang.......now I see the light, and to think I'm accumulating all these worthless PM's instead of the financially sound fiat frn's. son of a .............

Too bad I can't just 'print' more physical silver and gold like can be done with frn's......

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 21:31 | Link to Comment Zing
Zing's picture

+1

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 22:50 | Link to Comment Rick64
Rick64's picture

The rest of you guys were listening to those clowns on KWN and General Jim's "$1,650 is in the bag!" nonsense and got punched in the face by Uncle Gorilla.

Lol. You got a sense of humor I'll give you that Robo.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 23:20 | Link to Comment jomama
jomama's picture

robo's classic.  i don't understand why more don't appreciate his humor...

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 11:18 | Link to Comment Central Bankster
Central Bankster's picture

lmfao Puplava has made so many terrible public market calls over the years, he was bound to get ONE right.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 20:34 | Link to Comment Kina
Kina's picture

These may be a bit dated and not 100% accurate but the picture is the same.

 

GDP $14.7 Trillion
DEBT $14.4 Trillion $129k per taxpayer
SPENDING $3.5 Trillion
REVENUE $2.1 Trillion
DEFICIT $1.4 Trillion

US DEBT HELD BY FOREIGN COUNTRIES $4.8 Trillion
INTERST ON DEBT    $207 Billion
US TRADE DEFICIT    $679 Billion
PERSONAL DEBT    $16.1 Trillion    $52k per citizen

OFFICIAL UNEMPLOYED     13.3 Million
ACTUAL UNEMPLOYED         23.8 Million
PEOPLE ON FOOD STAMPS     44.4 Million

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

 

Now if my personal deficit is $1k per week and people accept my IOUS there will come a time when my IOUS become worth less and less and people want bigger and bigger IOUS to cover the risk and then one day IOUS not accepted. Then what do I do? Sell all my assets and decalare bankrupt and start again.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 20:36 | Link to Comment holdbuysell
holdbuysell's picture

Tour de force here, TD.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 20:47 | Link to Comment AUD
AUD's picture

This article does not prove there was any conspiracy. Does anyone here know that the COMEX could not order liquidation only, which I presume means open interest could not rise. It may say in the rules that they can do this, certainly they can change margin requirements at their discretion.

The article even states that; "By that time, silver was literally coming out of the woodwork. In response to the new high prices, old ladies had been selling their tea sets. Families had been hocking their silverware. Coin collectors had been divesting themselves of their collections. In January and February alone, an estimated 16,000,000 ounces of silver coins and an additional 6,000,000 ounces of scrap silver had come onto the market."

The sad fact of the matter is that people were then & still are today happy to speculate on the governments' credit, that being the dollar. The volatility indicates to me that the threat of monetary breakdown is real but when, it is difficult to say. It no longer looks like it will be next week anyhow.

And Max Keiser is still a jerk for exhorting his 'army' to buy high. I checked out his website & at least there is no more Attack!! That worked as well as the Light Brigade.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 22:33 | Link to Comment JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

Facts:

1. http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/BASE

Base money has tripled in 3 years.

2. M1 has continued to increase to its highest level in history.

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/M1

3. Same goes for M2

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/M2

 


http://goo.gl/FnxBZ  Treasury Direct $14 Trillion Debt / http://goo.gl/TMl74   $15 Trillion in Loans / http://goo.gl/EXzal  / ='s $29T

 


US Treasury Tells Lawmakers It Needs $2 Trillion In Debt Capacity

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/us-treasury-tells-lawmakers-it-needs-2-trillion-debt-capacity

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 20:48 | Link to Comment Zing
Zing's picture

Silver is going back to the $18-$22 range, right back to the base of the parabolic move.  Sorry guys.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 21:02 | Link to Comment EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Then you should short a lot of contacts. Or are you another "do as I say, not as a I do" troll, who lack the conviction of his own message?

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 21:19 | Link to Comment Zing
Zing's picture

I am riding short on this pig.  Right down to 20.  Got short at 42 and enjoying taking the money of silver suckaz!

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 22:13 | Link to Comment Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Another 2 week member and most likely, new troll.

This is getting ridiculous around here. 

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 20:40 | Link to Comment goldfreak
goldfreak's picture

and when it doesn't go to 20, you'll stick around like Jonny Bravo?

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 22:45 | Link to Comment samsara
samsara's picture

Right down to 20.

We're all with you believe me.  I bought at $7 and picking up some more in the $20 range would be great. 

As you know (or maybe you aren't a  knowledgeable paid troll from JPM and are really just a stupid rube/troll) ;

 

Every Oz we buy is an other Oz that will NEVER be in JPM's(or other CBs)  inventory.  

It's a one way valve.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 23:49 | Link to Comment DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

+1

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 00:49 | Link to Comment FIAT_FixItAgainTony
FIAT_FixItAgainTony's picture

agreed.  i try to convert Fascist Retard Notes whenever the damn things comes near me.  unfortunately, most corporations still prefer the paper.  so some paper must be retained for them.  for me and my comprehension of wealth, i'll keep buying the physical silver.  these bankster pukes can't suppress the true physical market of REALITY.  f^@k their alleged silver price!

Sun, 05/08/2011 - 09:02 | Link to Comment goldfreak
goldfreak's picture

fascist retard notes, so true

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 21:21 | Link to Comment Fred Hayek
Fred Hayek's picture

I hope you're putting your money where your mouth is and taking every spare dollar and betting that that's what will happen.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 21:25 | Link to Comment Zing
Zing's picture

You idiots are junking me because you can't read a chart?

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 01:54 | Link to Comment slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

you are doing quite heavy junking, yourself, at least to me.  i don't junk but about 1X/month, and not this month.

you think trading and shorting is all there is.  you don't undertand many people here.  they get you, you don't get them.  you think they are idiots because they didn't sell all their silver to the banksters, and go short, too, b/c of some damned chart. 

why don't you just stfu and understand that you may have a good trade going, but that doesn't mean you understand anything but the most obvious "sell" signal in ten fuking years!   and, many, maybe even most, here didn't sell a fuking ounce.  so, slewie's paper profits are down.  yep!  but his silver isn't!  even the most obnoxious trolls eventually come to terms w/ the zH's.  there is a lot of experience here.  you already know it all.  good for you.  your arguments are shallow and corny.  were you even alive when nixon closed the gold window?  when the hunts & the sheiks made their run?  do you understand the money supply---jomama, below answered your parabolic question quite admirably.  are you gonna pretend he didn't? we sell FRNs for PMs b/c FRNs are going parabolic.  so, we take FRNs out of one pocket and put PMs in the other pocket, when we choose to do so.  we don't keep score in green stamps and we don't necessarily trade for a living, altho many have done so and do so today.  some are not trying to "beat the market".  whether you can understand that or not doesn't matter.  it really doesn't matter at all. 

no, you're not getting junked b/c we're idiots who can't read a chart.  you're getting junked b/c you are making an ass out of yourself. 

listen, shitforbrains:  there are about 20 asswipes that have emerged here to tease everyone who didn't sell and buy puts and go short.  at least.  one guy thinks he is the texas version of dana carvey, and everybody who doesn't go along w/ his baptist version of "my plastic jesus" is SATAN!  but, he's very humble and saves souls while pursuing wealth and his coin dealer sent him to zH so he could learn something, and he thinks there should be more southern baptists, so maybe he recruited you, eh?

if you would please try to understand that there are other strategies around silver and PMs than yours, it would be nice.  just like the texas asshole might want to understand there are other religious & spiritual ideas than his.  you'd still be a complete asshole. and so will he.  you've already made yer fuking bones, here, you little asswipe creep.  yes, toy boy, we can read fuking charts.  we can read every chart the banksters paint.  yes, silver was overbought @ $50.  look @ the sto's!  but if "taking profits" is not a person's goal w/ PMs, then s/he didn't sell and take profits.  can you understand or not? 

how can a person give his gold and silver to his/her children if s/he sells it for green stamps?  s/he can't.  duh. if you can understand, please understand.  if you can't, why not just go somewhere else where everyone can brag and be cool.  you "shorted silver" @ $42?  on the crimex?  hey!  you're "up" $30K, and when it goes to 20, you can cover and "make" $110K.  

some people just trade to "make money";  others to "add to core positions";  others do not trade.  there are people here who are closing out trading accts, IRA's 401k's, bank accts, stocks, bonds, and paper hats and party favors, too!  we already saw the "financial" assholes go completely broke 2-3 years ago, loot the Treasury, and they're still insolvent.  the "economy" they can "fix" ain't fixed, either, and every damned $ they lend and print into existence at this point has an overall negative effect on the economy.  those are the green stamps you are playing for.

or, hadn't you heard?

pay attention, asswipe.  there may be a fuking quiz, shiforbrains.

Sat, 05/07/2011 - 02:44 | Link to Comment acrabbe
acrabbe's picture

+ 1 FRN printing press

http://slv.collective2.com

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 21:30 | Link to Comment the misanthrope
the misanthrope's picture

post a picture, graph.. that shows the parabola. do you the meaning of parabola? do you know what it looks like?

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!