This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
How The CBOT, Comex And CFTC Coordinated To Break The Last Silver Price Surge
Just like QE is nothing new in the monetary arena, and has seen some incarnation at least since the early 80's primarily in Japan, so parabolic commodity price surges have occurred periodically, most notably in 1980, when Bunker Hunt brought the price of silver to over $50. However, unlike any time before, never in the history of the world have we seen a coordinated worldwide monetary stimulus via relentless credit money "printing" courtesy of global central banks. In that regard, this time really is different, as there is no other remaining backstop to the world financial system: the global banking cartel has used up all its bullets and now can only double down in the most nightmarish Martingale system ever conceived, where each iteration means further fiat absolute value destruction (on a relative basis it simply means a race to the currency bottom, whereby definition only one can be in the lead at any given moment: usually the one with the biggest printing press, and greatest deflationary threat). And while many still believe that QE2 will be the last of domestic US monetary easing episodes, as Bill Gross noted earlier, it is very possible that the US may be headed into a triple-dip recession, for which the only prescription will be another QE round (with political gridlock in DC at unseen levels no fiscal stimulus is even remotely possible). If this happens, precious metals will once again surge. The only question is what will the exchanges do after the next gold and silver spike? Indeed, as we suggest, margin hikes are just the beginning. For a complete playbook of how the CME may proceed after the margin hike approach fails, we once again go back to the curious case of Bunker Hunt. Below, from the Playbook biopic of the Texas billionaire we posted yesterday, we present the walk through of how the CBOT, Comex and CFTC tried to break silver's back. Back in 1980 they succeeded. Have they, and will they succeed this time?
...The CFTC and the officials of the two exchanges decided to have a little talk with the Hunts. Explaining that they feared a squeeze, the exchange officials asked them if they would consider selling some of their silver. The brothers’ answer was no. What was more, they said, they intended to keep buying silver and to keep taking delivery on it. They thought silver was still a good buy, even at the new high prices. Besides, as Bunker put it with typical understatement. “If you sell, you get into a tax problem.”
On top of all that, Bunker really did believe in silver as a long-term investment, the underpinnings of a new economy. He did not say that in so many words to the CFTC men and the exchange officials, but he did give them a glimpse of his basic apocalyptic vision when he revealed a previously undisclosed feature of his silver play: the fact that he was moving his metal to Europe. This time, he did not fly the bullion overseas in chartered jets with cowboy guards. As he told the CFTC, Bunker simply traded 9,000,000 ounces’ worth of metal he held in Chicago and New York exchange warehouses for an equal amount of bullion held by other traders in London and Zurich. The reason? As he explained to the CFTC and the exchange officials, he feared that the U. S. Government might expropriate silver from Americans just as it had expropriated gold back in the Thirties.
But Bunker’s assurances that he was willing to cooperate as much as possible apparently mollified the CFTC officials; the C.B.O.T., however, concluded that it was time to act. In a move aimed directly at the Hunts and the other big buyers, the Board of Trade raised the margin requirement and declared that silver traders would be limited to 3,000,000 ounces of futures contracts. Traders with more than that would have to divest themselves of their excess futures holdings by mid-February 1980.
With that, the battle lines were drawn. Bunker let it be publicly known that he thought the C.B.O.T. was changing the rules in the middle of the game, and vowed to fight the limits all the way. Privately, he regarded the C.B.O.T.’s action as another conspiracy against him by the Eastern establishment. And for once, he had a good prima-facie case.
The boards of both the Chicago and the New York exchanges were composed not only of “outside” directors but also of representatives of the major, usually Eastern-based brokerage houses. Later testimony would reveal that nine of the 23 Comex board members held short contracts on 38,000,000 ounces of silver. With their 1.88 billion dollar collective interest in having the price go down, it is easy to see why Bunker did not view them as objective regulators. At the same time, though, the C.B.O.T. restrictions made Bunker even more bullish on silver, because, as he put it, “they show a silver shortage exists.”
Bunker appeared to be right. Through November and December, the price of silver rose faster than ever. By the last day of 1979, the price reached an astronomical $34.45 an ounce. Meanwhile, the Hunts’ silver holdings kept increasing. By the end of December, the Hunts and their Arab partners held 90,300,000 ounces of bullion that the CFTC knew about and another 40,000,000 ounces the Hunts had stashed in Europe. The Hunt group also held about 90,000,000 ounces worth of silver futures, most of them due for delivery in March on the Comex in New York.
By this time, the CFTC became concerned that the silver positions held by the Hunts and the Conti group were “too large relative to the size of the U. S. and world silver markets.” Subscribing to the philosophy that the futures market was not a substitute for the cash market, the commission determined that the time had come to stop Bunker’s perverse buying spree. A meeting to decide what to do was set for January 8, 1980.
Then the Comex stepped in. On January seventh, the exchange announced new position limits restricting traders to no more than 10,000,000 ounces’ worth of futures contracts. The effective date of the limits was set for February 18. The day after the Comex announcement, the CFTC announced that it was backing the exchanges new limits.
Bunker was incensed. “I am not a speculator. I am not a market squeezer,” he protested. “I am just an investor and holder in silver.” Taking the offensive, he accused the exchanges and the Government of destroying the U. S. silver market by changing the rules in the middle of the game. “The market will move to Europe,” he predicted ominously. “The silver market in this country is a thing of the past.”
Strangely enough, the price of silver fell only one day in the wake of the Comex announcement, then started climbing even higher. Part of the reason for the continued price spiral, according to an after-the-fact analysis by the CFTC, was that Bunker kept buying silver. On January 14 and 16, the Hunts made agreements to take future delivery on 32,500,000 ounces of silver (mostly in London) at various dates that spring. The largest of those contracts were with Englehard Minerals. On January 17, silver hit a record high of $50 an ounce.
Bunker could hardly be incensed about that. On that one day, the worth of the Hunts’ silver bullion holdings was nearly four and a half billion dollars. Since most of that silver had been acquired at less than ten dollars an ounce, they had a profit of over three and a half billion dollars. Bunker and Herbert had made nearly as much money in the past six months as their late father had made in his entire lifetime, at least on paper. Of course, if Bunker actually sold all that bullion, he would face enormous tax consequences. The trick now was to figure a way to utilize those huge gains without having them decimated by the taxman.
As Bunker pondered that, the exchanges decided to impose their most stringent restriction yet. On January 21, the Comex announced that trading would be limited to liquidation orders only. There would be no more futures buying. The game was closing down.
The next day, the price of silver plunged to $34, a drop of ten dollars in a single day. It stabilized shortly after that, and remained in the mid to high 30s for the rest of the month. But in February, the price began to slide downward again. By that time, silver was literally coming out of the woodwork. In response to the new high prices, old ladies had been selling their tea sets. Families had been hocking their silverware. Coin collectors had been divesting themselves of their collections. In January and February alone, an estimated 16,000,000 ounces of silver coins and an additional 6,000,000 ounces of scrap silver had come onto the market. With the price of silver now dropping, some of those small sellers and small investors began complaining to the CFTC about the exchange restrictions...
Ironically, while the paper holders of silver may be complaining to the CFTC now, the inverse is true about physical supply-demand dynamics. Indeed, instead of a scramble to convert physical silver to paper, we continue to see the inverse as a material amount of silver wholesale retailers continue to be out of actual silver.
And, as was posted yesterday, those who wish to read the full story of Bunker Hunt and the still historic surge in silver, may do so here.
»
- 37307 reads
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
- advertisements -
Go to Kitco and look at a 10 year chart idiot.
Is there some particular reason you need to suggest someone take a look at a chart and then call them an idiot? Why not just suggest the chart looking? then perhaps a few actual facts.
Parabolic move = three increasingly upward moves in price ending in a near vertical parabolic blowoff. We saw this in silver. The base of the move was anywhere from 9-20. Go look up a 10 year chart.
go look at the 10 year M1, M2, and M3, idiot.
It's like bringing a circle jerk to a parabola fight.
We are your shadow. We match your every move. When you zig we zig. When you zag we zag. You think we are an echo on your sonar. Not knowing we are stalking you. Going where you go, inch by inch step by step.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEnJDaqT3-0
So who are you trying to convince? I think it's very funny how obviously desperate you are. Why does it mean so much to you to participate in this single person argument?
Zang, you are starting to sound like "Mortimer" man, Your online voice is even getting shrill.
"Turn those machines back on"
Take your C3H5(NO3)3 tablet. Think of your heart man.
(look it up)
Sorry? It's a dream come true to 95% of us. When are you fucknuts going to get it?
I appreciate contrairian info to the "hype" because I continue to learn and balance my options, but if all you have is "told ya so" then go eat a bucket of glass and light yourself on fire, already.
What's different this time is the pre-ordained, programmed destruction of the value of currency for as far as the eye can see. In turn this means a programmed gradual reduction in the standard of living of the average American. It's of course, the only response possible after a 40-year credit binge that can not possibly be repaid by an economy that imports more than exports, consumes more than creates, and offshores more industries and jobs than it creates. All this in the face of global competition for dwindling natural resources.
PMs are the only tool that the average American has to protect against diminishing buying power of income, savings and personal assets. Yes there will be push back from TPTB, but this time there are millions who can push back back, and fight for their economic survival. Like with the Stamp Act.
PMs are speculative tools. Only good for a short every now and then.
Thomas Sowell had a good line once when someone's plan to duplicate some earlier U.S. economic policy was described as new when brought up in a question and answer period after he gave a talk. He said "Everything's new if you don't know any history."
To think that PM's are simply speculative tools is to show a complete ignorance of history. Do you actually think that using them as money would be something new?!
Gold and silver are NOT money. can i spend it in a store? can i smoke it? eat it? no? then leave it in the ground. though at least silver has industrial uses. In my mind, silver is just another industrial commodity, like copper. Buy copper bullion bitchez!
your first time comments are ridiculous. now then, I can spend g & s in certain stores, and trading with others. With your current paper money, to follow your comment, can you smoke it, eat it? your comments make absolutely no sense. worse really, they are just plain stupid.
I CAN USE paper to get things directly. I can't do that with silver.
Yes you can get some of those things directly. Typical though that you didn't really answer the question, or admit your statement about smoking and eating was incorrect.
No, but I can use FRNs to get those things. I have to trade silver for FRNs for goods.
Your statement above stated you could use your money, paper money and smoke it and eat it. stating that silver was not money because you could not smoke or eat it. there was no mention of any exchange. get it right. or just learn how to think long enough that you can write coherently. fucking juvenile.
Please learn to read. Silver is not money, you can't eat it and you can't smoke it. All of these are true.
You are too full of yourself. I frequently buy things with silver. You should read up on the difference between money and currency.
And then go educate people elsewhere.
Ok traderjoe. Here is a shopping list challange. I will give you the exact price and weight in silver to buy the items below within a 24 hr period, and will give the other contestant a Mastercard and cash. The winner gets to keep all the items below, and the loser has to cut off his pinky finger(or has it cut off for him) and give it to me as a trophy.
1. A USB to Firewire cable from ebay
2. A house advertised in Robb Report
3. Flight's to Austrailia for a family of 4
4. shoe laces
5. New 2011 Bentley
6. A chocolate bar from walmart
7. French Boutique lingerie
8. A years subscription to the FT
9. 1 Oz of cocaine
10. 2 nights in a Swiss hotel.
Your time starts now!!! oh the joys of watching you melt.
I'd take the challenge, if you use Yuan instead of dollars.
Fucking moron.
Then don't, And don't think another thing about it.
You're fine. Read the other articles about the market on widgets. They may be going up.
Don't waste your time replying to folks to tend to buy PMs, canned goods, Big Berkey's and grain mills.
We're not 'Investors'. We buy for a completely different reason that would probably be lost on you,
But somehow i think you know that and love a public forum to try to win an argument that no one is having.
Use them to buy plastic shit at walmart, good one... :-)
That was funny.
If you are not investors, why are you reading a site with the most verbose and technical descriptions of financial markets currently online...why do you take advice from talking cartoon bears who claim to know bigshots in Citi?
I can't speak for other folks, but I am looking for cracks in the facade of normalcy to get a better idea of when to convert my remaining frn's into hard assets. My goal is to be holding zero frn's when the currency is devalued or the US defaults on its debt.
The analysis and links to useful information presented here are second to none, and while I don't subscribe to some of the views expressed at The Automatic Earth blog, (especially regarding PMs) I do believe their view that the financial markets are a leading indicator of societal collapse, which will precede a sorely needed realignment of cultural values. So you see, I am not here to take advice on investments, but rather to watch closely for signs that the music is about to stop. I am virtually certain that CNBC and the rest of the MSM financial press will maintain their willful blindness to the utter insanity of the current misallocation of capital and act oh so surprised when the house of cards comes crashing down, but a lot of zh'ers have seen the writing on the wall for some time. In that sense, ZH is a leading indicator of a leading indicator.
And about the bears, I find it very humorous that I find them more credible than Bernanke or Paulson or Rubin or ... well it's a long list... hahaha
Well, looks like you've made the SHIT LIST "Zingy". When you opened your mouth and said, QUOTE, "SILVER AND GOLD AREN'T MONEY". What the fuck do you think the 30-40 POUNDS of SILVER sitting to my right in my safe are? Lbs. of Mercury dimes, Liberty halves, Franklins, Kennedy's, etc., etc. Along with hundreds of AE's, I'd say I've got Silver and Gold MONEY. PS. I just traded a 5 gram Pamp for three rolls of Mercury's yesterday while the price was down. Jeeeesh, incompetence is running rampant in the world, and it shows when people like you eventually OPEN their mouths. Add HIM to the LIST RYNAK!
wow guys, zing's NEVER been in a "coin" shop.
hey zing, i have a great revelation for you - various gubbermint mints make things called coins in gold and silver and platinum and palladium. they have face value denominations that make us laugh, but they are money as they are denominated in "dollars".
get your yellow pages out, look for "coin dealers". call one close to you and then visit it. you will see i am not lying.
BTW, i have two restaurants i go to regularly where i do pay in silver. yeah, corporate stores don't take it, yet, but when you ASK, you may find mom and pop shops that do take payment in silver.
now go to the coin shop tommorrow and then come back here and apologize to the nice folks here at zh.
know someone who knows someone who bought land and buried silver. all over the place. i just posted and removed cause i revealed too much.
What the regulators were willing to do previously rises an interesting question:
IF in the future, when PMs are high, they decide to go for as draconian measures as "you may not buy anymore, only sell", and IF it turns out that other markets fail to circumvent them.. and as a consequence of both IF that makes silver drop like a stone from the high.... what to do then?
Ideological considerations ignored, one obviously would not want to ride the train down, just to rebell. So, IF all those things would happen, and one could only either sell or lose.... yet at the same time, one doesn't want to get locked into paper, then what to do?
What about in such a case simply replacing metal with metal?
That will be the last corner that the public will be allowed to be painted into. They can't stop the knowledge flow on the Internet. If that happens it won't be long until people are in the streets rioting.
Who may not buy anymore? If by "you" you mean everyone, then how can they say "you may only sell"? Sell to who? The Chinese?
Your question doesn't make sense to me.
Why is it they moved to break the run-up in silver but stood by and did nothing when a far worse financial catastrophe, the housing bubble, was getting ready to crash the entire system? They knew what was going to happen to housing and the fallout from it, but did nothing to stop it.
Could it be that someone was going to get squeezed on the silver thing, yet the boys were raking serious coin on the mortgage mess? Naw, this is really just a series of strange coincidences.
I wish no one ill will, but someone needs to be held accountable for all this. Not sure when we can expect the indictments to commence, hope soon.
sschu
Along the same lines, they haven't quite gotten around to trying to raise margins on purchasing corn, have they? Well, that's only starving some people when the price goes up. What's that compared to the greater glory of JP Morgan?
Look, this is simple:
There are people posting who are bullish on silver and those that are bearish on silver. Some saying there is an abundance of silver, there are no shortages, others saying the opposite. Both giving anecdotal evidence to support their case.
You don't need to know if there is a silver shortage or not to see the real story here. Whether there is plenty of silver around or not, whether people are buying or selling it is irrelevant to see the real story.
All you need to do is look how the powers that be are currently acting, they are extremely panicked, extremely desperate and they are pulling every dirty trick in the book to keep the silver price down. Why is that?
Why would they do this is all you have to ask yourselves? An increasing silver price doesn't affect peoples everyday lives, it doesn't cause people to starve or lives to be ruined.
They are acting this way because they know is a lot is at stake, their survival. They are literally not trying to hide their desperation, it's in plain view. There must be really high stakes at place here for them to act this way. And we are not talking small players here that are in trouble, we are talking the biggest players there are, we are talking banks which literally control governments, cause wars and can change the lives of people all over the world with a few actions.
So, it's a simple game:
High silver price = TPTB's demise.
Low silver price = TPTB survives.
If you're happy with the current system and want TPTB to survive so the current system continues then sell any silver you have, show no interest in buying and the price will fall.
You want TPTB to demise and new system to be born, then buy silver and keep buying, the less silver there is the more money they have to throw at it to stop it rising and the sheer amount of effort and resources they have to throw at suppressing the silver price will cause them to implode anyway.
It's a simple choice.
Ding, ding, ding...We have a winner!
++
High Silver prices will lead to the death of the Solar panel. This is one of the main reasons this current group of leaders are doing everything in their power to keep Silver cheap. The "Greens" have been pushing Solar panels as the solution to our Global Warming problems. Each Solar panel requires about 20 grams of Silver. This is about 2/3 Troy ounce of Silver. $50 Silver essentially eliminates the economic viability of Solar panels. The only industry that could afford Solar panels that use $50 an ounce (or more) Silver is the Space Industry.
Not all solar panels require silver. Indeed, there is radical new technology that is coming down the pipe that will revolutionize solar. Not only in photovoltaics, but in THERMOvoltaics.
You should do a little more reading on the subject. Silver is not used within the solar cell. It is used to connect the solar cells in a bank of cells. the Silver is used for power transfer. Look at every solar cell made and you'll see lines of Silver connecting them. Copper can't be used because it corrodes when exposed to the sun even when it's encased in epoxy. Solar cells must use Silver.
The more efficient ones use silver but it's only some 6% of global supply. Also there's a substitute techonlogy: http://www.technologyreview.com/Energy/21255/ Long silver.
LOL-You should actually read the links you post....
I did read the article. From page two:
It says that silver is partially replaced (large bus bars). Am I misunderstanding this?
The same amount of Silver is used in the production of the above solar cell. All they did was provide a way to attach copper leads to the silver substrate without using Silver paste solder. This provides an easy way to connect banks of solar cells to a main copper buss bar external of the solar cells. This does nothing to reduce the amount of Silver used. Each one is still going to contain 2/3 a troy ounce of Silver and there is no suitable substitute for Silver in this product.
http://seekingalpha.com/instablog/521936-eps100momentum/112707-solar-dem...
Read up on thermovoltaics and graphene. Graphene carries charge with less resistance than silver, and thermovoltaics work more like a conventional generator (though with more different designs than are now in use).
Check out GE's newest find in the great state of color red. Prime star solar; next generation energy and innovation will come from these states united. In conclusion the secrets of the precious and it's highest and best use has yet to be revealed to mortals.
Simply brilliant musings of yours !
+100
You don't get it at all but you call others trolls?
What was stopping Bunker from selling out his futures positions (allowing suffering shorts to cover) at a high price & buying his silver elsewhere with the proceeds?
If the answer is; there's nowhere else he could get it in size, then that just proves that the the futures exchanges are not about to default since that's where all the silver is.
Until both silver & gold fall into a permanent backwardation I doubt there will be anything but more volatility as speculators move from one market to another. Buying high is the road to ruin.
One nation under fraud. Those ending up with the most federal reserve notes loses. Just keep trading in those FRN's for real money gold/silver. bankster fraudsters in bed with dead head gov goons need know WE THE PEOPLE are more than they. Without the real monetary wealth of gold/silver, the beast has no power; dead as the dollar is empty! Backed by lies, deception, and corruption built upon paper fiat illusion, pulp fiction mark to fantasy. US financial accounting system runs deeper than the bullshit out of DsC; distribution sewage central. I have a dream and I'm not asleep for the change I believe in!!
agreed buz. i fight against these bastard whores every day. when they tried (and are still trying) to steal my home, my line in the sand was drawn. that was in 08. crash course in where we screwed up ended up being necessary. knowledge is a good thing, why do you think it's suppressed in the schools?
i had to learn, these judges are going to learn too that we are armed with knowledge. becoming toxic to these evil persons is a key.
silver is another key. turn paper to shiny reality.
the sheeple shall awaken and become People again, like the majority of the zh'ers are.
recognize the corruption and the fraud. actively persue avoiding interaction with such persons and hold them accountable. mass people outnumber tptb. hell, 30% can. another 30% will join so not to miss all the fun.
then the are guns if we are so forced to....
Such has been the siren song for the last few months on commodities in general.
Despite my repeated warnings that markets aren't that simple, and that it has all been leverage - that is, cheap debt - that has powered them higher, nobody wanted to hear it. "Gold is money." "Silver is money."
Uh huh.
So are you going to tell me, my friends, that there has been an inflation and then deflation of roughly 20% - on the upward side in the last month or so, and on the downside in the last couple of days?
What repeated warnings? on another site? your first comments here are those in this article. or perhaps it was all in your head? and now you address the crowd as, my friends, when before they were all idiots. which is it?
Note the link brother
There was no link. And now it is brother? Fuck off with the name calling. Trying to ingratiate yourself are you? I'm not your brother, I don't even like you. If you haven't figured it out yet I dislike you intensely.
You are claiming to be Karl?!?
You are going to get roasted.
Which parts of supply and demand do you not understand? And are you aware that prices do not synchronize instantly? For example, according to your logic, rapid inflation should not result in lower real wages, because employers will magically instantly every month adjust the wages they pay to monetary supply.... ORLY?
no, zing, think!
if gold & silver are money (or currency as the US Constitution, not me, says), then, in terms of PMs, there has been about 90% deflation over the last ten years.
in the last few weeks, b/c of a cluster of factors (rapid upward price movements, changes in margin, QE1,2,&3, the FED, goobermint spending & mismanagement, zombie financial instituions, oil wars, revolutions, and propaganda, to name a few) the PMs have suffered 5-20% inflation---loss of purchasing power.
yes, silver inflated 24% this week---over $10/oz, lost to the damned dollar. got dollars? got PMs? got food?
if you think only FRNs or euros or yen are money/currency, why are they not storing wealth better than PMs over the long run? b/c they are fiat. and there is a fiat flood. don't build an ark. i don't fuking care.
we are not playing leveraged markets, zing. we are playing l-i-f-e. and, we are playing for keeps.
the PMs went straight up. overbought. now, they are adjusting. leveraged playas are win/lose/draw. other players are not leveraged. they are not short of cash. they have no margins. they have PMs and they have a shitload of Pms.
while you were repeating yer warnings, we just didn't care, b/c we hold PMs for a certain kind of insurance which only PMs can provide. and. we don't go uninsured b/c somebody named zing thinks markets are gonna de-leverage for a while. we're not leveraged we don't mark to anybody on the planet. we have no counterparty.
yes, the "value of PMs" in fiat goes up, down, sidewayz. from weak to strong. strong does not mean "big" or "bank" or "market maker" or "regulator/regulations".
strong means strong. really. ask tyler.
fight club, BiCHeZ!
yeppers!
i am convinced that zing and others like him that pop up out of nowhere are just baiters, masochists or shills. there's no use arguing with these guys, seriously.
above all, they don't understand that we are currently existing in special circumstances. they don't take the debt into account, or future obligations, or geopolitical tenor regarding the reserve currency, or the actual fundamentals of the physical silver market itself. these idiots are here to bait the rest of you.
YOU ARE FEEDING THE TROLLS
http://slv.collective2.com
Uh what repeated warnings were those? http://www.zerohedge.com/users/zing/track
I am going with DangerTime.
What do I have to do with this?
thanks for the laugh
In 2009, the US Geological Survery pronounced silver to be the first element of the Periodic Table to go extinct in 2021.
So, whether you call silver a commodity or money, it makes no difference. The law of supply and demand says that silver is going higher.
Unmortgaged holders of metal are secure with their holdings.
So much for the money argument. BTW silver is just an industrial commodity. Can I spend it in a store?
You've never been to the vault, have you?
http://www.newyorkfed.org/education/addpub/goldvault.pdf
After deflation takes silver down below $20/oz, I'll buy some to wire my home, since it is the best conductor of electricity. It is an industrial mineral after all!
It's also almost the best conductor of heat. So make you a radiator out of it for your car. If it's an industrial metal. Why don't we use it for plates and silverware to avoid food poisoning. And theres so much of it acording to mathman. I don't see why every american doesn't own 20 lbs of it for silverware.
"The shit is fucking everywhere!"
- MethMan, 2011
Well, by then you will obiously be to old to do the job and too broke to even be able to pay for electricity. Come back to enlighten us when you know the difference between a metal and a mineral.
depends on what stores you speak of
In the supermarket now and asked. Nope, they don't take silver bullion.
yet :-)
Right now? As you are posting on this thread? How do you manage to do two things at the same time? Better yet, let's try this. Oh King Zing - what should I do with my paper while I wait for 20 dollar silver?
The labor rate in my machine shop is now 2 ounces Silver an hour. I just made the exchange rate for US Dollars Silver spot plus 30% premium. If someone has a problem with it that can go find someone else to make unobtainium parts for orphaned equipment. Some do walk out but they always come back a couple of days later because I'm the only game for hundreds of miles.
If something is useful as money, and then it's supply is depleted, what makes you think it isn't money any more?
For a comparison, platinum has all the features of money, just like gold, but it is also used in industry. Result? More expensive than gold.
Think on that for a while.
Just asked the supermarket folks if they take gold or platinum (as well as silver). Nope, they won't take it.
They sure will. Actually try it.
Ask them if they take Euros, or Canadian or Australian dollars? Yen? Yuan?
Are none of those money either?
Think about that for more than a few seconds.
Come to my store. I'll take it. I even have an ap on my iPhone to get the exact price in FRNs.
Zing you should go over to silverseek. Its really cool you can start your own thread and everything. Theres a whole community of trolls who you would fit right in with.
Roger that!
You are missing the point. Store it. Don't spend it in a store.
on Fri, 05/06/2011 - 21:32
#1250045
So much for the money argument. BTW silver is just an industrial commodity. Can I spend it in a store?
Silver is money or currency per the US Constitution.
Your statements to the contrary fight the Constitution like Pee Wee Herman fights the Rock, it's a non starter.
If silver is money as per the US constitution then why do you continue with the Fed.
Your elected representatives have no ethics, honesty or integrity.
No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque
and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin
a Tender in Payment of Debts
http://www.usconstitution.net/const.pdf
-
I didn't know that, thank you
-
Parabolic move. This is SILVER PARABOLIC MOVE!
You haven't answered any question put to you. No dialogue, conversation, nothing of value. Just a tiime waster. Short incomplete sentences that convey no meaning whatsoever. Get the fuck out. Waste of time, space and skin. Bloody idiot.
How about the reverse parabolic currency curve all the way to zero. It only gets worse at the tail end. Since we've lost 95% of the value of the dollar I think we will be going negative parabolic soon on the dollar.
I purchased 100oz in March 2010 @ $18-$19oz. I thought "I should sell this" when it hit $47, but I didn't because I actually like owning it and could care less if it decreased in value. I didn't go balls out on this bad boy, all I did was allocate a little bit of coin to a few little bars. One thing the old lady taught me was "if you can afford to walk away with no regrets then go for it". It's a crazy market, it's emotional and it requires a thick stomach. If you lose money then learn from it, if you make money make sure you don't believe your own hype. Be diligent in your research and if you gamble hoping to hit the jackpot just know there's tens of thousands of other people hoping to run into the same luck. It's been a wild ride (as WS made me a solid 400% return), I've made more than I've lost and I love the ZH posts from the bears and the bulls. Peace.
Bulls, Bears, Zerohedgers, lend me your ear.
We are approaching robottrader, Zing, Ivar, etc., and all the other alleged 'trolls' in a totally wrong way. When it is obvious that these caring and gentle folks are here to save us from ourselves, why do we respond with insults and name calling. We should be thanking them for taking the time to have examined the PM markets, and markets in general, to such great depths as to be able to save us all from financial ruin, and to give us the insights that would bring us fame and fortune. Well, fortune anyways.
So why be so uncivil to these good folks? All this they are doing for us, for free no less. All out of the kindness of their hearts.
Thanks guys!!
Now where'd I put my Jameson bottle........
The road to Hell may be paved with good intentions, but the trolls like RobotLemming, MethMan, Zing, and all the others are only here to cement that pavement firmly in place with the mortar of deceit, treachery and lies.
Okay, that spamming of crap is enough evidence - no one who is simply ignorant spams that aggressively.
*adds zing to the list and junks his posts*
zing, another pointless troll.
Great Read! For all you F/X traders. A FIFO fact. When you open orders, just alter the size slightly. (Ex... usd/jpy @ 80 1 order then usd/jpy @ 79.5 1.1 order. Then the FIFO requirements are null. You can close your trades in any order. have a good weekend all!!!
Some of the chatter is distracting and confusing...
What was the original idea behind encouraging the collective to buy all this silver?
Are we trying to accomplish something?
If this is a war, who is winning?
by FluffyCone
on Fri, 05/06/2011 - 22:06
#1250156
If this is a war, who is winning?
**************************************************************************************
If we are using money (paper) as points? they are winning the war.. the score is below.
Facts:
1. http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/BASE
Base money has tripled in 3 years.
2. M1 has continued to increase to its highest level in history.
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/M1
3. Same goes for M2
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/M2
http://goo.gl/FnxBZ Treasury Direct $14 Trillion Debt / http://goo.gl/TMl74 $15 Trillion in Loans / http://goo.gl/EXzal / ='s $29T
US Treasury Tells Lawmakers It Needs $2 Trillion In Debt Capacity
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/us-treasury-tells-lawmakers-it-needs-2-trillion-debt-capacity
who started bichez? just asking. and what's the significance of this on the site?
Chumbawamba.
It's really just a catchphrase. Probably the most accurate description of the phenomenon is that the poster wants to point out that the article, or the comment above, is significant to the subject that makes up the first part of the phrase.
think it's like a fraternity handshake. i don't think i'll be using it. maybe start something new like basTurdZ.
it is impossible to handle the idea of paper/physical price diversion, come on bulls save the rara for when its true
Buy more silver and fight the Fed. Sounds like bringing a knife to gun fight.
I sold at $47.32 after the announcement of the first margin hike. Completely done and staying out.
I'm long XAG again. Nice work M. I sold 46.6.
the cftc and wall street banksters have pulled a play from 1980 and they will succeed in driving silver into the high 20s but it will not last....the filth and corruption spewing from wall street and washington is so deep and institutionalized that the correlation of forces aligned and ready to battle the evil empire are much more organized and committed to fighting the thievery.....
this is only the 2d battle in a war against the fiat....the first being the destruction of the man in north carolina who dared to mint silver coins.
Phillharmonics, Maples, and Eagles for sale spot plus 6 all day long....just let me know. Buffaloes for spot plus 3.50 anytime place and where.
zing is still @ the stage where s/he thinks "will they take it @ the supermarket?" is an intelligent question. yet, he is here. he has been posting a bit for a week or so. he is defending that which he has "learned" or been taught.
s/he's trying. maybe s/he'll learn something new, here. about staying out of debt, not using leverage, not gambling with the fukin rent, especially with insolvent counterparties, not generating tax liabilities, and being his/her own person.
who knows? anything's possible...
I gotta download some (Wild Wild West) episodes! Artemus Gorden will be our guiding light!
nah, Y/C, you know i'm old skool. charles bronson playing against henry fonda in "Once Upon A Time In The West" yay!!!
Me to! TEAM AMERICA f... YA! Love the Death Wish trilogy.
On the peoples market there be 49 of the casa de moneda scales and press up for auction. This is the worlds premier and first design for the 1ozt round.
I haven't seen a big number in a few days so i logged on to(for fun)
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
When i was a kid(80's) i remember a $5 bill being pretty big - it could buy me a lot of chips, candy and pop. Then when i got $100 bill for my 13 bday - i thought it was huge and i was the man. Then i thought a million dollars was like, your filthy rich and etc...
When i see a number like 14,000,000,000,000 it seems to me like we are in the range of astronomy measurements - dealing with distances between planets and ffsakes.
I can not for the life of me seeing that^ EVER being even remotely close to being paid off(no chance)
For that reason i began the switch to physical Au/Ag and i feel good and thanks to help from good(true) folks at ZH.
Fried(e)
Is your big number 100 pips? The theme is consolidation. That trade moved 6 big numbers!
I agree. I got hooked on astronomy (and science in general) when I was very young, about 8 years old. One of the fantastic aspects of that was learning to mentally grasp huge distances and huge numbers. At first the distances between stars seems equivalent to infinity. Then you learn that we can see the positions of many stars change on timeframes as short as months. Then you blink-compare the earliest photos of the crab nebula against recent photos and notice the nebula developing. Then you compute how little time it would take to pedal to mars or jupiter at the same rate we accellerate when we pedal a bicycle. And so forth.
It takes years, but eventually we can grasp the magnitude of huge numbers and the relationships of huge quantities. Of course, numbers like the nominal and total national debt ($15T and $200T) can be made easier to understand by various devices, like dividing by the number of taxpayers in the USSA.
No matter how you cut it, the debt of the USSA is insane, criminal, unpayable.
For any government to borrow money is inherently unethical and criminal, for several reasons. To dump tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt on infants when they are born is craven, unethical, criminal, diabolical, predatory, and overt slavery.
What makes the situation massively worse is the inherently unethical and criminal scam known as fiat, fake, fraud, fiction, fantasy, debt-based "money" and legal tender laws. What blows this ponzi scheme scam to astronomical proportions is "fractional reserve practices" where a group of craven, corrupt, self-serving predators create "money" out of nothing and lend to others at interest. This makes possible the creation of literally unlimited debt.
The federal reserve must end.
All fiat money and assets must end.
All debt money and assets must end.
Fractional reserve practices must end.
Unless that entire scam is eliminated, the human race is finished. The human race is an abject failure, and the single most important cause are those 4 items above. ALL must be eliminated. Note that even a gold standard is useless as long as fractional reserve practices exist, because they can play exactly the same games (create infinite paper gold certificates and enrich themselves while they fleece and manipulate everyone else).
Another outstanding post Honestann! Bravo!
Brilliant explanation !
+100
If you read this book 'Financial Reckoning Day', you will learn once upon time in Greenspan era, Gold lost value (1st time in history) against fiat even when interest rate getting lower and lower. At that time, wall street looks at him as God till few years later.
Market likes a spring, harder you press and higher it will jump when you release.
Facts:
1. http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/BASE
Base money has tripled in 3 years.
2. M1 has continued to increase to its highest level in history.
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/M1
3. Same goes for M2
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/M2
http://goo.gl/FnxBZ Treasury Direct $14 Trillion Debt / http://goo.gl/TMl74 $15 Trillion in Loans / http://goo.gl/EXzal / ='s $29T
US Treasury Tells Lawmakers It Needs $2 Trillion In Debt Capacity
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/us-treasury-tells-lawmakers-it-needs-2-trillion-debt-capacity
It was not the first time in history this happened. Greenspan was recreating Mansa Musa's hajj of 1324- only Greenspan's pilgrimage was to Wall Street in order to demonstrate his submission to the God of Fiat (Satan).
CBOT, CFTC, Comex, JPM, federal government... are all criminals. They do indeed change the rules in the middle of the game (5 times in 8 days recently). The entire federal government and all federal regulatory agencies, and all supposed financial markets regulatory agencies operate 100% for the benefit of the predators-that-be and financial-predator-class. There is ZERO honesty, ethics, justice whatsoever, and increasingly very little pretense (since it is now so obvious).
If they want margin requirements to change as prices rise and fall, then there should be a simple mathematical equation, or a simple statement of at what levels margin requirements change. Any asset purchased without any such conditions must not have conditions imposed before the asset expires. As this article states, there is astronomically blatant conflict of interest... except it is much worse than that. It is pure, overt, unmitigated theft.
Everyone with half a brain should completely escape ALL paper assets. Buy real, physical assets and keep them in your own possession. That's the only way to protect ourselves, and the only way to prevent unlimited unearned riches flow to the predators-that-be and predator-class.
Any company that really needs [the equivalent of] futures contracts to control their manufacturing costs should make individual contracts with suppliers and totally avoid the "official markets"... because those are no longer markets - they are purely mechanisms for the dishonest predators to steal from honest producers and investors. Otherwise, just stay 100% in physical, always. We must stop supporting this destructive criminal activity that only enables predators, not producers.
Fuk the bastards it's time to take 'em down! Only problem is with the sociopath greedys sonsabitches is that they have the attitude 'if we can't have it all neither can you' and bombs away most likely. And why aren't those little faggots bush and dick behind bars yet for 911? This country is a goddamn joke.
I know their are a lot of extremely knowledgeable people here and abroad (on other sites) that can read the technical data and understand the information in the market, economy, etc...And they are trying to fight the good fight.
But one thing that scares me is those unforseen circumstances - that could change the system and such. Because their is no data or chart you can look at to gain information on those 'x-factors' or whatever you want to call them.
(11:11)
Fried(e)
Bottom line: Don't plan on everything going according to plan - not even everything going according to logic.
I was around in 1980, and the contrast between now and 1980 is striking. For one thing – in 1980 the U.S. was seen by all as the most prolific economy on the planet, we had real jobs and actually made things to export. Our currency was the worlds reserve currency, and the very thought of that ever being challenged was almost laughable. Our citizenry actually had a fairly high regard for elected officials and had confidence in our government to conduct policy that would keep the U.S. on top. As I recall, we were still a surplus nation and actually ran trade surpluses or nearly so and sure as hell wasn’t running a 2-3 Trillion dollar a year deficit. The Federal Reserve was thought of in totally different terms – in fact – most believe it was illegal for the Federal Reserve to be directly involved in the stock market – it was prior to Regan’s formation of the Presidents working council on market stability. Most importantly – the general public did not see any reason to buy gold or silver as a real hedge against the real possibility of their currency being debased into oblivion. For these reasons – and many more – I think this time is different. People are buying precious metals out of fear – not greed! They know the current path this country is on is unsustainable, and are buying precious metals for the purpose of wealth preservation – and not wealth appreciation. Bottom Line – this Crash is a Gift! There will be no government expropriation this time around – the people will not comply – and besides – there are now too many big players who own metals for the government to try that stunt again. I do not have a Crystal Ball so I cannot say with precision WHEN it will happen – but I can say it with a fairly high degree of confidence that it WILL happen at some point that we will see gold trading North of $5000.00 and silver North of $100.00 MINIMUM – and I would not be shocked to see those numbers be eclipsed by a considerable margin.
A debate over what to buy in a store. Too funny!
Reminds me of an argument over country music I had in a jail, once. Oh well ... it's a strange country.
As for what will happen in the more or less near term in precious metals, who knows?
All the commodities have been leaping upward following fuel prices. All commodities are experiencing production shortfalls relative to demand. The 'Peak Gold' and 'Peak Food' arguments have been as convincing as the Peak Oil argument is and has been for the past ten years or so.
At some point prices increase w/ constrained supply (relative to demand) until they are unsupportable by user's incomes/cash flows. Maybe $50/oz is a 'price too far' for silver right now. With almost 20 million unemployed in the US and 44 million on food stamps there are likely too few lusting after silver outside of Zero Hedge.
Most of the silver is owned by a handful of giant companies, anyway. What appears on the COMEX now and in bullion markets is the 'excess'. The markets are 'paper' markets and 'silver' is just another word.
The greater trend is the decline and fall of finance and 'money making money'. In a simpler, post- industrial world there will likely be a place for gold and silver, perhaps a hard currency. Keep in mind, a gold- backed currency would require a default first, otherwise creditors would have right to all the gold.
Watch Portugal and see for yourself. What remains of finance does not have to steal your gold or silver, they simply have to claim it as payment for your debts.
It's technically possible for the US to 'grow' and pay off/service its industrial debts but unlikely. The US will restructure, but will do so alongside all the other countries which will do the same thing. A billion owed by the Treasury will become a thousand and there won't be anything anyone can do about it. "Take it or leave it!" After this process is done there might be a hard currency. Those who have metals will likely be disappointed as the exchange rate will serve the Treasury's interests and no one else's.
And that is how it goes, bubbles bursting and all.
Let's see what happens next. I'd keep my powder dry and see of prices go down some more. I see margin calls in the immediate future which will be more of a downdraft in assets. Look @ crude prices and see if they continue to fall. At some point the equities will also fall particulary if Greece defaults or decides to leave the EU.
Good luck!
Maybe bubbles have something to do with leverage?
The biggest differences between now and the 1980 price 'episode':
1. No one is cornering the market.
2. The biggest speculators are central banks.
3. All other asset classes are obviously shit with zero real return, at best (as Bill Gross has stated).
4. Most physical commodities buyers love price declines because they can buy more with their regular, relentless, unstoppable conversion of paper savings into hard assets.
Personally, I recommend staying diversified and increasing savings to make up for the theft of real return by the rat bastard criminal global elite...but look at most household portfolios: way long on housing equity and worthless 401(k) stocks and bonds, way short on cash and hard assets.
Basic portfolio diversity implies plenty more physical demand. BTFM (Buy The Fucking Metal).....shoot for at least 10% of your ultimate retirement asset stock in PMs and you'll be OK. 20 ounces gold if you're an optimist, 100 if you're not....then just have fun. Remember, if you don't have the physical metal you don't have nada in this department.
And that's for 'normal' people, not catastrophists or traders (both non-normal subtypes that do NOT get along).
Traders live to trade and preppers live to prep and occasionally you find trading preppers and prepping traders.
The heterogeneity of opinion is what makes zero hedge interesting.
I miss satansanus and the jewboy crowd. I love to watch jooz and antizionists put out troll bait for each other.
i dont really blame the exchanges for hiking margin requirements - $11,000 to control $250,000 isnt very safe for them if there is a correction - actually $30,000 isnt very safe either -- particularly with gamblers that buy the maximum they can each day in an up market -- how does a guy with $100,000 come up with $2 mil if the poop hits the fan -- thats why margin calls bust gamblers - like the 400,000 people without jobs that bought $200,000 houses and havent made a payment or paid a tax in 3 years - because they cant
A familiar piece to his fans, this George Carlin excerpt captures the contemporary power structure pretty well...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5dBZDSSky0
It reminds me of those black markets where the currency in the street has one exchange rate, and in the banks other..... It can only last for a while.
This is a stretch.
Sometimes I get lost in the forest for all the trees. It isn't until I tell myself that the dollar is not the measure of wealth I thought it was that I understand that my physical is my real savings. I watch the paper vs. physical divide widen and I wonder why the BMW crowd (repleat with fancy suits) would even worry about a piece of paper they bought with some scribble on it about silver- they must be smarter than I am. Unless they stand for delivery they are an equal part of the problem as the Clowns Fooling The Clueless.
As a noob all I have to say is that I bought as many rounds as I could afford from my local dealer yesterday. It wasn't much, I'm just paying myself in real money when I can. The current price of silver coins allowed me to buy some more, and untill the exchange rate of frn's for an oz of Ag makes me decide between feeding my family or not all this discussion is for people who make way more fiat than I do. I buy food, silver, brass, powder, and Cu/Pb when I can, in that order. Roll your own, own your Ag, and sail your ship as you see fit. All hail the Turd and thank Trader Dan. Beyond the edge of normalcy bias thar be dragons and corrupt markets ... (a wink to my favorite 'rat). Each of us decides what is worth our labor. I'll take mine in Ag coins. Just how a worm sees it.
Silver has been "sound money" for hundreds of years.
I agree with that.
However, silver was "sound money" back in 2000, when it was under $4/oz.
Silver was "sound money" last week at $48/oz.
The question is this:
Is it wise to buy or sell silver when it is over $40????
edited. nonsense.
Well, that's the whole fucking point, isn't it?
Nobody knows what a dollar is worth. Money goes up, money goes down. Money goes up here goes down there. The "value" of things is no longer measurable using money. It's useless.
In 6 months Silver WILL be worth $40 if the printing continues. If the printing doesn't continue, it WON'T be worth $40.
Whether something is high or low is completely relative. What is it high or low compared against? Do you think investnig in Facebook is sane at the price it is? We have mal investment all over the fucking place because the value of money is all over the fucking place.
It depends on what kind of sound you're looking for.
Do pigmen squeel?
You are all feeding the trolls. When you get into an argument with an idiot, at a distance, others cannot tell the difference between the two of you. I wouldn't be surprised if ZH was sponsoring these trolls to get comment #'s up in order to continue to increase hits and ad $'s. I am probably wrong about that, but it had to be said! In my experience, the smarter a person was (or thought they were), the more gullible they in fact were since they became weak and lazy in the comfort of their supposed superiority.
No need to argue with these fools who can't recognize a failed keynesian experiment when they see one. If they are even those types of fools. Who knows if Robo and his newborn-baby-bird (insatiable appetite. have you ever seen pictures of newborn birds being fed by their mother? Christ!) pals have or haven't physical PM's within their possession? The times are much too serious to be arguing with trolls. The real question is, how can we generate more Federal Reserve Notes in order to procure more physical gold and silver. Because we sure as hell aren't doing shit else to fix this clusterfuck.
http://slv.collective2.com
In all honesty, what is an individual's recourse? I buy physical, I vote, I write letters, I send emails, so what is it (other than taking time off work to hoist a sign that nobody cares about) that I can do to change things? I don't see any solution to the problems presented. All I see are a bunch of rabble complaining about the current situation. The internet has compounded bitching on an exponential level. Not once have I encountered an all-inclusive solution. I am working on a solution, are you? Here on the universal access blog it is a balancing act between open discourse and privacy. Are you a troll or are you really seeking info? The point has become blurred and the truth has been hidden by the same lies that lead the sheep. You asked a question and here is my answer; the amount of frn's required to do anything doesn't matter. Taking action on the local level, that is working for and paying in silver, is the initial step. To refuse the frn is to revolt and begin a new economic model. Tiny at first, but it cannot be ignored...just look at the Ag market as of late.
I hear you. I have given up on trying to participate in outward forms of protest or revolt. I rationalize my actions by telling myself that doing so will only get my put on the wrong list, get my lifespan shortened, or just plain waste my time. I have resorted to going about the necessary work on my own, much like others here, physical silver, food, ammo, water, etc. In time, I may even be fortunate enough to move my entire family to a more remote piece of land. But baby steps, can't up and leave in a panic and end up worse off than before. Besides, finding a waterfront missile-silo property with a dock and heli-pad is quite expensive these days given the demand for these doom-pads.
I just pray that the population isn't suckered into self annihilation by tptb, because then my hand will be forced against my fellow man, and I wish not for that.
It's either all this gloomy stuff, or somehow we undergo a Paradigm Shift and its Kumbaya and Care Bears. But I doubt that.
http://slv.collective2.com
Before I joined the USMC my mom told me to volunteer for everything..because if I didn't someone else would be in charge. Each of us needs to look after ourselves but we also need to look after our neighbors, if not for the only fact that they will be the first to try to eat us. Kill them? No, take mercy. Educate them now, teach them that the truth is in skills and preparation. Stupid is terminal, ignorance is cured by the informed sharing what knowledge they have. Not all will listen, so they have decided their fate. I have only recently learned, and if I can get my family hedged in six months then my neighbors can do it easily. That's the easy part. The problem lies within the question of how do we make the constitution rellevent in today's society. Pay locally, in silver. Grow our own food as much as possible. Those with the means will create industry. Canning operations close to farms. Mining where possible, with renewable technology a priority. The natural world still rules, regardless of man. Carrying capacity of any environment will be degredated by the artificial inflation of organisms living in it. It is a paradigm shift. It will not be pretty.
What is expensive? The amount of frn's a plot of land costs, or the look of our loved ones starving in debt slavery?
Sam Adams was a rabble-rowser...probably a terrorist in today's society. Here's to raising the rabble! How is it that common sense was passed as a tract. I dare any of these people to squeze a cow's teet for milk before buying the commodity, to sink a shovel in the ground for ore, to sheer a sheep, to actualy do an honest days work before investing in the commodities that actualy make the world function. They can tell us what the data says, but they can't raise a lamb or even gather eggs from a chicken coup.
The US economy's only hope was for growth to kick start on the back local and global stimulus packages and money 'printing'. This has been a failure. US growth is anaemic and suspect and likely to get hit by Japanese troubles, a gradual slowing in China and the continued debt woes of Europe as well as their own.
The US economy thus has no hope of getting out of the hole and the money printing has only served to make that hole so much deeper making it assured that there is now no way out. The only solutions they have are money printing and falsified statistics.
The end game is still going to be one form of chaos or another.
Gold and Silver are still strong plays regardless of market corruption and manipulation. When the 'music stops' it will be those with PMs the most likely to have held the best insurance. I doubt that you want to be caught with too many FRN or Equities when that balloon burst. Good luck getting out the door. Only silver or gold will be able to buy you a seat at the stable table, metaphorically speaking.
In the meantime - buy physical silver and stick a knife in JPM.
PMs are well and truly still the game.
If commodities crash, treasurys remain stable, and credit and consumer confidence increase we could still be heading toward a recovery, especially if the tea party takes an axe to government spending.
It will not look like a typical recovery because millions have permanently fallen from the middle class. Millions more may fall, but a recovery doesnt mean everyone gets their old lives back.
Now people cant be stupid and get a poli sci or sociology degree. We have to work at real jobs now. The imaginary economy that supported such frivolity is gone.
"The imaginary economy that supported such frivolity is gone."
Concise description of truth!
FFS you could say that for any number of stocks. You could say that for the USD - is it wise to hold onto them as debt and deficit increase even further beyond the capacity of the economy to service. Of course not.
The price of silver and gold is a function of the health of the USD and economy.
Also it is not Silver that has crashed via normal market driven mechanisms - it has been an insanely concentrated and concerted and corrupt and coordinated effort by TPTB to do everything to crash silver. It had nothing to do with how high silver was going in itself and everything to do with try to help out a TBTF bank and the COMEX.
This nonsense about silver being too high is essentially that, nonsense. But we dont hear the same complaint about equities, if it is wise to hold them when their price is entirely artifical driven by money printing and would plumet the moment the tap is turned off.
If the trolls and such should ponder where silver and gold would be sans a long sustained effort by the TPTB to press down the price with insane volumes of naked short selling and the like. Maybe we would have already had a blow off top in silver at $100USD and be back at $50 - where the same trolls would be saying how silly people are to hold silver at $50.
In this environment holding some percentage of PMs is the go. Everything else I hold is in AUD.
Fundamentals are all nice and well. Truth and justice is all nice and well. Still, manipulation and paper-metals (an oxymoron if you ask me) are a fact. While i have not been burned by the recent sabotage (still way above my original entrypoint), my conviction has been reinforced that i should not plan optimistically but pessimistically. Not expecting the opponent to play fair, is part of this.
Again, i'm not rejecting the fundamentals, not justifying the recent events, and not saying to stay out of the game. I'm just saying: Expect them to cheat.
I agree. And now we have seen a demonstration that they will now go beyond normally cheating whith which we had become familiar, and that they will go to breathtaking degrees of cheating.
They may still play the same games, let silver rise slowly to crash it again to scare people's confidence, and traders may want to take advantage of this knowledge.
But in anycase the end point is going to be the same. Whilst manipulation can cover over the fundamentals it will be the fundamentals the eventually decide the final act. The fundamentals are now an incurable cancer, they will have their way regardless of the manipulation that goes on between now and the 'end'.
The close we get to the end the more difficult will the TPTB find to control these things - it is not just the US they have to deal with but the whole globe.
Full agreement. Plus, they cannot crash everything for a prolonged time, especially not an entire sector. The warning lights go red, you switch, the smashdown misses you, rinse and repeat - whack a mole. Plus, betting everything on one horse isn't that clever anyways, so we're talking about moles that occupy multiple holes at the same time.
Rynak- Expect them to cheat.
that about sums up what I see in the news daily, never mind the small precious metals complex
fuck tyranny, long live liberty
+1
Such a patriot living off the carcass of a dead model? The upper-middle class will have options, the rest of us (educated lower middle class) will have to fend for ourselves. What local industry keeps the American citizen honestly busy? Laundry, grocery, delivery.. what? Cars? Most are imported and we will see a decline in Japan's influence in Q3-4. Welcome to McJobs! I have a MS in Enviromental Engineering.. would you like fries with that?...the 'If it's broke replace it' model will have to become 'if it's broke fix it' model. The writing is on the wall. The US is going to become a lot less friendly. The model is based on the Mexican government. Instead of the drug cartels, we will deal with the financial cartels.
Learn Mandarin and work with the Chinese, or emmegrate to somewhere like Australia or Canada where there is still full employment (for the time being) to return later.
You have got to work for yourself nowadays.
Environmental issues were all the rage for a while, but now you guys are hated by a lot of people as just a socialist, anti business front group. You phuckers want to kill jobs....you monsters!
Why don't we silver bulls just get together in Central Park in Hymietown,
where we're gonna have a party with Blythe and Robotrader.
After the 10th beer for everyone, we're gonna fumble their nice little shirts and crotches and we're gonna reach with our strong hands into their tight little pink panties.
Silver bull (deep voice): "I know you want it, too, baby."
Blythe (high pitch voiced): "Oh no, oh no."
Silver bull (deep voice): "Show me what you got. Show me your assets. Show me your equities. Your short positions."
Blythe (high pitch voiced): "Oh yes, oh yes."
And then we're gonna have a nice silver bull bukkake all over their fucking faces.
Round and round it goes.
If they take away our money by fraudulent means,
if they steal it by changing the rules during the game,
if they use their illegal and criminal monopoly against us and arbitrarily set the price of things for their own private financial enrichment,
then the least thing we can expect in return is a nice gang-rape, sodomization and desecration of these whores, right ?
A-harrharrharrharrharr !!!
I was thinking of something like this here:
WARNING: Graphic imagery ahead.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=616PgQCUcp0&feature=related