This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
How The Comex Lost 20% Of Its "Registered" Silver In One Week, Or Where There's Smoke Of A Run, There's Probably A Run
A week ago we noted something peculiar: in one day, COMEX
depository Scotia Mocatta (one of five in the world) saw a 25% transfer of silver from "registered" (or deliverable physical) to "eligible" (or "undefined" - a distinction discussed previously, and also below). We said: "Canada's largest bullion depository (and one of five total) reclassified
a whopping 5.2 million ounces of silver from Registered to Eligible
status. In order to get a sense of how big this amount is, which amounts
to just under $238 million at today's fixing price, it represents just
over 25% of the total silver stored at Scotia Mocatta, and about 5% of
the total silver held across all depositories." The reason then given was: "due to a reporting reclassification, 5,287,142 t oz was moved from Registered to Eligible." To our (lack of) surprise, a quick glance at today's silver holdings at the Comex confirms that the trend of reclassification is continuing unabated, and total "physical" silver across the entire Comex universe has now plunged by almost 20%, or from 41 million ounces to 33 million ounces, in the span of one week! And while last week it was Scotia Mocatta, today it is HSBC and the Delaware Depository, and the reason given: "Adjustments include reporting classifications of t oz that were moved from Registered to Eligible. Please see Special Executive Report reference 5736 for additional information. http://www.cmegroup.com/tools-information/advisorySearch.html#." And a further drill down reveals the following link. Many have speculated that there could well be a run on physical silver. But for those looking for a smoking gun, this is probably as close as you will get to one, short of JPM actually declaring "force majeure."
This is from April 20:
And this is from today (link):
As for the detailed reason provided by the CME, we get the following:
A correction to the COMEX Metal Depository Statistics Stock Reports published on April 27, 2011, has been made to reflect a change in the reporting of metal from the Registered category to the Eligible category. This change reflects paper warrants that have yet to be converted to electronic form. The metal represented by these paper warrants, which will now be reported in the Eligible category, will continue to remain eligible for delivery against COMEX futures contracts provided holders of the paper warrants convert them to electronic form.
Exchange metal reported in the Registered category represents troy ounces of metal that meet the contract specifications as defined in the Exchange Rules for which an electronic warrant has been issued.
Exchange metal reported in the Eligible category represents troy ounces of metal that meet the contract specifications as defined in the Exchange Rules for which an electronic warrant has not been issued.
So, a rather odd last minute paper to electronic contract conversion, which mysteriously results in a 20% drop in the physical silver across the entire Comex universe? And this coming at a time when silver is within cents of breaking the all time nominal high? Sure, we'll buy it. But perhaps the Comex can tell us just how many more such "warrants" exist in the system, and whether when all is said and done, where it says 33,322,807 million ounces of registered silver (where it was 41 million last week), it won't be zero, or, who knows, negative?
We, for one, won't wait to find out and demand delivery only when said number hits zero.
And as a reminder for those unfamiliar, here is a distinction between "registered" (real) and "eligible" (somewhat "questionable"), courtesy of SilverAxis
For
those who aren’t familiar with the terminology, the registered category
of COMEX warehouse bullion stocks generally refers to gold and silver
bars against which COMEX warehouse receipts are outstanding. The COMEX
publishes these stocks on a daily basis and they can be found here:
Silver | Gold. The registered category is the total pool of gold and
silver available at any time to meet delivery requirements under
expiring futures contracts or to establish initial futures contract
positions through a transaction called exchange-for-physicals (I’ll
explain this another time). It is important to realize, however, that
many parties holding COMEX gold and silver in registered form have no
intention of making their holdings available for delivery. By this I
mean that such parties are neither (1) holding a short futures position
against the warehouse receipt nor (2) willing to sell their registered
metal (warehouse receipts) to a party with a short futures position.
Indeed, a substantial portion of those holding registered metal would
have acquired the COMEX warehouse receipts by holding long futures
positions for delivery. In other words, these registered stocks are held
for investment and not for commercial purposes.In comparison,
the eligible category of COMEX warehouse bullion stocks generally refers
to bullion held in the warehouses that meets the specifications of an
acceptable COMEX bar (proper weight, size, purity and refiner) but does
not have a COMEX warehouse receipt issued against it. For example, an
investor might purchase several 1,000 oz. bars of silver from a dealer
and then deliver the bars for allocated storage at a COMEX warehouse.
This is a private arrangement and has nothing to do with the COMEX.
Unless these bars are officially registered (the easiest way to do this
is through the aforementioned exchange-for-physicals), they will remain
in the eligible category until withdrawn from the warehouse by the
investor. Thus, the appropriate way to treat eligible COMEX warehouse
bullion stocks is that they represent metal that could potentially be
registered at some point in the future but cannot presently be used to
make delivery under a short futures contract.
h/t Dr Derivative
»
- 50805 reads
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
- advertisements -
Here comes the comment when you call:
"You want delivery bitch? STFU!!!"
Man are the next 60 days going to be fun to watch and get depressed over....
I've got some silver eagles available for $250 oz...
Perhaps now da bankster puppets will start crying for hearings on Au/Ag price gouging?
There sure couldn't be any connection to Da Bernank printing 3 trillion U$D in under 2 years (To maintain the (D) & (R) oligarchy), right?
Or was it left?!?
Too many Democrats & Republicans, where did the Americans go?
Anyways, the one that makes it to Switzerland with the most Ag wins!!!
P.S. Looks like ZH has dumbed down the captcha for the Facebook twits, No más números negativos!
Say hello to Dumb & Dumber Hedge; where dividing by -0- is the New 'MeriKan Dream ;-)
$250 will be cheap this time next year, and possibly next month.
now that is top talk anyone remember DOW 36000? or whatever that book was?
Dow 36,000 = Harry Dent.
Who ironically does not believe in the gold story.
Dow at 30000 by 2008 Bob Zuccaro. Hilarious. Uber bulls usually get slaughtered
Dow 36000 was by Jim Glassman.
Louisiana Blues
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1e9m0Xhm1RQ
Hi ya'll.
This is my first post at Zero Hedge, and I just wanted to tip my hat and say hello.
I've been reading this website for the past few months (my coin dealer referred me here), and have really learned a lot about silver, gold and all the evil of the Federal Reserve. I've probably learned more here in the past two months, than I did during all my years of high school.
I decided to join, so I could ask questions and keep learning. You guys seem really smart (except the trolls!), so I hope I can learn from everyone. By the way, I hope I don't get attacked by trolls. I see the way they always try to harass everyone with opposite opinions, and it just sucks.
I'm just a simple man trying to learn what happened to my country, and what I can do to get her back to the days before Obummer and his socialist agenda. I'm mad. I'm armed, and ain't no one going to take my country, especially an African.
ok...so anyway, that's that.
God bless, and god bless the USA.
Welcome aboard. Keep reading on the whole L/R paradigm. The whole mess started long before Obummer. At least since 1913, but most likely tracing back to the institution of corporations...
Thank you.
Singing:
"It was 1913 on a Christmas day
Congress gave away its right to create cash
Now your money's only worth
Just what the Bankers say
And you can lose your only shirt
In just a flash"
F**k The Fed
Words and Music by Neal Fox
Boring Red Neck Repubnicunt is boring.
Howdy, Tex.
I've been saying for a while that I think Texas will be the first state to secede (after Obama steals the next election from Ron Paul) and this will ultimately trigger an avalanche of secession. But first Texas will have to deal with Blackwater and various Rothschild/CIA terrorists. Am trying to get my family in Dallas to prepare.
If the trolls come after you, that just means Cass Sunstein's psyops brigade thinks you're dangerous. Take it as a compliment.
You just took the bait fellas. Its obviously one of 3 trolls changing his moniker after getting severly anal raped by SLV today.
Eat shit troll! Reload those 40 puts and come back under your real handle when you're in the money..
Good call, it's probably the new persona of Harry Wagner.
Welcome! I've been reading ZH for about a year or so and glad I did. The honesty and sometimes humorous sarcasm really make my day. I probably spend 1-2 hours a day here. I got into Silver before I found ZH and ZH has confirmed for me why I did. I'm dumping all dollar assets as fast as I can and buying Silver. Max Keiser has a good web site you may want to check out. I also like SGTREPORT.com / Rense.com
Off Topic, Iraqi Dinar could be in play this year if you're interested in foreign currencys: http://theiraqidinar.com/2010/12/11/marcus-curtis-rv-of-the-iraqi-dinar-heres-why-re-post-w-links/
Hoser
You ain't lying about being simple. If you think obama is the reason we are in the shape we're in you haven't learned a friggin thing over the past few years. You're from Texas so I suppose you have a ready excuse for being narrow minded and obtuse. If you'll try to remember, it was Paulson of the Bush administration that went before congress to extort 780B from the commonwealth. Bernake was already FED chairman although he was reappointed by Obama. It is the power holders protection of the U.S. oligarchy that we are fighting, and it doesn't matter what head they put on the White house puppet. Get a clue man.
I love this line from Avery Goodman's Seeking Alpha article:
http://seekingalpha.com/article/265381-short-sellers-now-screaming-about-a-buy-side-silver-conspiracy?v=1303940178&source=tracking_notify
And for the uninitiated Seeking Alpha is filled with precious metal haters, what else would you expect from a bunch of money managers that are for the most part prohibited from owning physical metals in their funds and would hate to see their clients buy them missing out on commissions and fees?
That was truly an outstanding article by Avery Goodman --- and his comments following it, and a few other of his articles, are as good or even better than the articles themselves. This man is truly a scholar and has a first-class mind.
Indeed, that article will go viral across many a blog in short order.
definately a "must read"
"Seeking Alpha is filled with precious metal haters ..."
Not the commenters! The SA editors only post those negative articles to rattle their cages and provike their (devastating) comments.
Kind of like the SeekingAlpha versions of Leo and MomoTrader, eh?
That was an extremely helpful article. I've haven't quite understood the problems with COMEX that are referenced here frequently and all the calls to 'buy physical'. Now I'm getting it. The fact that the same techniques are probably standard for the other metals markets is sobering. In the same way, as per last week's posts, that the Fed uses sales of derivatives to suppress the mid/long term bond yields, these metals market manipulations show the extent of their 'total management' of the world economy. amazing.
Depression is rage turned inward. I haven't run out of targets for my rage yet.
+1
$48.50, no big deal...
Glad I pulled the trigger this am.
MethMan, RoboTroll, DangerDouche....??? Can we get an update on your puts????
Anyone else notice how all the posts have 1 junk??? C'Mon angry troll, sound off, no need to get passive aggressive!
Is that you DangerDouche???
In the months to come, we may look back on the "Scotia Announcement" as the beginning of the end of The Comex and The Cartel. Just as the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand began WWI or the self-immolation of the angry peasant in Tunisia set the entire MENA region ablaze, The Scotia Announcement may be the historic turning point.
bling.
Anything that ends fractional reserve banking RICO and the central banksters - especially the Fed, ECB, BOJ, World Bank & IMF - all good in my book.
Like a snake, you have to crack their skull really hard to ensure they die. You can't assume they die because they are wounded and slink away into the shadows. You need to chase the mofos and repeatedly put lead into cranium en masse.
Every fiatski that leaves circulation and ends up in physical silver/gold amplifies the crisis of Bernanke and all fractional reserve charlatans. It's a true revolutionary act, because it brings power directly to bear down on the syndicate, and weakens their hand and nullifies their bag of tricks.
As for the physical, it is going to be a big problem for those who are storing their physical with any seller. I think this has the potential to be one of the biggest scandals in a while.
I would be shocked if more than 25% of the physical is actually really 'there' and can be made deliverable at all.
I wonder how the actual end users of silver, in particular, are ensuring they aren't going to be absolutely slammed by wayward rogue silver price monster waves as this unfolds further.
It's going to get even more interesting. Buckle up.
Turd, you the man. But don't forget what Izzy Friedman told Ted Butler about silver and having 2 green monster boxes of US Silver Eagles underneath your bed and forget about them. Well I bought 4 green ones at 14K for 2. One is still sealed from the Richmond US Mint. I wonder how much an sealed box would go for? Offer me paper money, then no deal. Offer me silver eagles, and if I were a farmer I'd give you one of my cows and my family would eat steaks. You can't eat silver or gold coins, yeah right. But when the dollar collapses, you can sure barter with them. 10 Gold Eagles will buy a some land with a small house in Alabama, 2 green boxes of silver eagles will buy a foreclosed condo in a Trump Condo building.
Egg Laid from the Chicken now in Pattaya.
bingo; the assclowns crowing about the abundance of physical silver never got a history lesson in fiat currencies
Yup.. so the day Mike Mahoney has been calling for is not all that far from here. For those not up on his points about PM; 500 Silver Eagles buys a median priced home in the States by 2015. Check it out. For a guy (me) that has been buying hand over fist since 1999 (when we had $2.65 an ounce spot) and NOBODY wanted metals, this has been the ride! Double Eagles were $280/$300. I was also there in 1979 and 1980..and sold at $42 Silver/$810 gold an ounce then. So the reality of just how the naysayers will get totally crushed is going to be sweeeet vindication...again! Go back as far as Fiat Currency has existed and PM is ALWAYS the leveler. Not one Fiat Currency has ever defeated Gold's (and Sister Silver) return to eventual value as the standard. This time is NOT different. What is about to happen is going to scare the holy crap out of anyone under 40 years old and didn't live thru the Inflation of the early 80's. My fam even had a paperpushing "advisor" "educate" me in 2000 about Lipper..bla bla bla.. and how Gold especially was a total FOREVER looser purchase. Well..his Enron, Washington Mutual, Lehman Bro's, and BearSterns crap sure did a hell of a good job of ensuring his clients (that haven't died off yet) are now in a dire struggle for simple existance. Like I told the moron then..the Double Eagle can't go worthless, idiot..it's still 20 Dollars no matter what happens! Maybe I'll buy his house from forclosure in 2014 for 500 of those "totally junk" Silver Eagles. Where's Harry Dent and his Paradise of the "Roaring" Dow today? It doesn't make a hill of beans even if the Dow did hit 36,000 if the purchasing power of a Fed Reserve note is zip! We're in a pickle for sure now so anyone not already deep in physically held PM is going to be neck deep in Shit creek before this is straightened out.
I am forced to agree with you. The bad news is that everything you are predicting will come to pass, the sheeple will be sheared and the unprepared and clueless will suffer the most.
Pattaya, yes, my friend. I have a condo there. Will be back soon. Rolfe
Isn't this just the metal equivalent of transfering stock from a margin account to a cash account in order to restrict the amount of stock borrowable by short sellers? It just tightens the screws, that's all.
No, not at all.
...and i say give the assist to U Texas fund taking physical deliv of over 40k lbs of au .
I wonder how many quant kids even know how to write an algorithm for a bifurcated market. It should make for some interesting paper price movements in the coming months.
I think we'll look back on late 2010 and say that a massive buying spree of retail, possibly in part driven by Max Kaiser among many other factors is the major event that helped push silver to the breaking point. We all know that silver broke in 2010, its just been tweaked in 2011 to try to conceal the fires that urgently need extinguishment. -- Your bud, B
all right, ya' got me instead. "is that a bank created market corner?" and "when I see it go parabolic do i sell?"
When you call for the devil, you get him.
I'm sitting tight, this is just the first *BTFD* on the way down. No doubt perpetrated by premature speculation. Of course, you BTFD'ers are familiary with that I'm sure.
Humanitarian aid to Mexico and Peru?
bulliondirect says "Operational Delays
Due to heightened market activity please expect delays in customer service, accounting, shipping, and receiving."
Delivery failure is such a better reason to make a boatload in silver than the collective insanity of our monetary leaders but isn't great to have BOTH.
Take physical delivery!
Got farmland outside the US yet?
http://www.thorssoncapital.com/
Spam!
“COMEX depository Scotia Mocatta (one of five in the world) saw a 25% transfer of silver from "registered" (or deliverable physical) to "eligible"”
Could this be related to University of Texas taking delivery?
"last week it was Scotia Mocatta, today it is HSBC and the Delaware Depository."
If it is related to who is next to take delivery the MSM will ignore it,
I wonder how the royal wedding is going?
Hey Mac. I'm just taking a few ozs on the sly. Nobody's going to notice.
Yeah...we were gonna put it back later...our bad...no hard feelins, eh, homie???
That's as good as silver, sir. Those are IOUs. Every cent is accounted for. Look, see this contract, that's an IOU for 25,000 oz of silver. Might want to hold onto that one.
http://youtu.be/7GSXbgfKFWg
Lol, +25K oz silver
Add it all up, it's all there!
I enjoy your rapist's wit, T1000.
Thanks, WestVillageIdiot: "Tell her I'm rich, and I'm good looking, and I have, uh, a rapist's wit."
This whole economic shebang became a whoooole lot clearer for me when I realized that the Bernank and Geithner were like Lloyd and Harry. Looking at each other asking what they should do with the 'liquidity' problem. The solution: print our way out! We're good for it, right Harry - every last cent.
We've entered the death throes of the Lloyd and Harry economic recovery plan.
$1,000,000 IOUs for all!
that's rich!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o3NsKJVDvU&feature=related
I think someone needs to check to see if there was spray paint in their empty vaults that says "Suck it Trebeck" - love Turd
I'll take Silver The Rapist for $500.00.
Alex: That's therapist, Deacon, therapist.
Wasn't what your mother was saying last night...
My mom said that she thought Blythe was gonna need a therapist.
C-C-C-C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER
You'd probably find the same graffiti artist has been to Ft. Knox. Wonder how much in storage fees the people have been charged for non-existent pooled gold?
"But it was considered standard industry practice, Your Honor"
What kind of insane people let COMEX keep their silver/gold?
I was wondering that too.
Bunch of snooty country club Blue Blood types that believe Al Qaida is real and Wall Street is regulated fairly
Soon, there going to be in for the shock of their lives....
Not likely Josh. Those 'Blue Bloods' have been the main impetus/beneficiaries of all the hocus pocus over the years; they know full well the value of physical PM's.
No, more likely our willing dupes are composed of the people they've hired to manage your pension (into their hands).
They don't mind if Wall St. is unfair, as long as it is unfair in their favour.
With a few exceptions that prove the rule, there is only one way to get rid of autocrats, to my knowledge.
I hear your theory, I just run into too many Ostrich types that fit the description I threw out - regardless people are going to learn painful lessons soon as was pointed out
Josh Randall, the Bounty Hunter? Steve McQueen?
but i thought you elected your pension fund manager? i understand if you say "Ben Bernanke isn't elected."
That's true .... those "blue bloods" sure do take care of each other ....
....just look at Sokol and Buffett right now....
If one is not taking delivery NOW, as one should have been all along, well, good luck asshat.
Just wait until the suckas find out they have to share their ounces with another 100,000 shareholders!
$50/100,000 no es mucho puta!
Should be good for another $25+ within a week ;-)
Force Majeure Bitchez
all of you need to read the real history of the hunt brothers. Most of you probably already have.
huge story.
know when to hold em.
Why are you posting pictures of Val Kilmer? Take that shit over to TMZ.
That's not val kilmer.
Think of guitar. Think of a song.
It's Kenny Rogers.
Lost Decade
Fail.
I got it. I thought it was pretty funny.
or is it slv "bitchez"?
Silver Bitchez!!
Ahhhh, couldn't resist. My first post on Zero Hedge, must be in the cool crew now!
caD.
420 always works as the gotcha answer..
and find out about TUNGSTEN BITCHEZ
Silver tungsten carbide
High amp carrying capacity break before make switches bitches!!
Can they substitute Tungsten for silver in a JDAM or Tomahawk?
Nope.
ctlaltDEL Bitchez!!
Welcome CtlaltDEL. Total system reset, burn the parasites and the beaurocracy, start again with only the Constitution and the metals. Apocalypse Now!
Amen.
Coming soon to an (all too short lived) former Republic near you.
Edit:
Hey, Dangerdipshit, where's MY junk?
New World Chaos - sorry to disappoint, but the Constitution's junk paper too ...human bonds work, pieces of paper no matter how good the words don't
Lessons in History, No. 3
The right of the people to bear RPGs, black helicopters, figher planes, and nuclear weapons, shall not be infringed.
Don't forget drones, lasers and anti-aircraft missiles. The Second Amendment is our last hope against the NWO and I hope a few clarifications will be added during the Constitutional Convention following the (hopefully very one-sided) civil war which will follow hyperinflation. Also have to clarify that "the People" bearing arms actually means "the People" instead of the National Guard. I know that when future generations become soft and weak again, some NWO weasel-word artist will come and redefine our rights away, and that is why the second amendment is there. Make sure the second amendment is the last to go.
While we're at it, get rid of the Commerce Clause and all laws based on it, shut down bullshit lawsuits, forfeiture and eminent domain, add the right to put anything you like into your own body, add the right to use any currency you like for trade, add the right to privacy but also the right to spy on any government official, and add the right to secede into voluntary communities immune to all interference from the outside. These are natural rights, but they should be enumerated in the Constitution nonetheless. I would join Zero Govt's community (with permission, of course) but I think Americans as a whole need a system that they perceive as legitimate. Something from our history that worked relatively well. Sooner or later the Constitution will again become "just a goddamn piece of paper", as Bush would call it, but we must forestall that day as long as possible.
I don't know where you came from but your 100% spot on. Freedom has been lost and I think most americans would like too have it back. I like the part about trading in anything we please, whether it be frns, tallysticks, wheat or silver. It's not the governments job to decide/control. Keep up the good fight.
Thanks. Many want freedom back but many still expect to live at everyone else's expense. Wait for the vast majority to realize that the system is hopelessly broke and broken and they will get nothing out of it, so there is no point in supporting it. This will have to come after the hyperinflation, food riots and FEMA camps. This is our moment. The first secession will start an avalanche.
Don't know if it will be Texas or Alaska that goes first. I think it will be Texas but hope it will be Alaska, because Alaska is more likely to put up a reinvigorated Constitution with the changes described above. They can say "Who will ratify this and stand with us against the NWO"? I bet they would get everything west of the Mississippi, with the possible exception of California. The South won't like the drug legalization amendment so they can keep their beloved cops, corrupt arisocrats and warmongering politicians to themselves. The Northeast won't like the no legal tender amendment so they can keep their banksters, beaurocrats, and eggheaded NWO stooges. Or maybe we can all get together and pigpile NY and DC and have the world's biggest pig-roast to feed the hungry hordes.
This is either a big urban myth or perhaps we are about to see the mother of all short squeezes. However, they do have the ability on comex to force cash settlement and limit the market to long liquidation only. That's what they did to the hunt brothers.
Maybe this is backdoor book cooking so they can handover the silver to JP so that they can now cover their death by silver shorts that the Morgue possesses.
Forced cash settlement and or liquidation orders only will be viewed as desperation and most likely have the opposite affect than what happened in the 80's.
Inclined to agree.
Seems there is now enough "energy" to demand physical.
Going out on a limb here.
The paper silver market could die a quick death.
But, but, but, it only costs $5 to dig it from the ground --- or out of a COMEX vault!
Or they push up the paper price on purpose (bits of data to them) so they end up at a number that can justify the cash settlement instead of delivery to hump some more life out of this corpse.
Not that I think it would work for long.
how? "there's no shortage of reserves." therefore "the bank should buy gold" and be done with it. or is that "start buying other banks"? next stop: People's Court! of course. Which Judge I wonder? I say "Judge Judy"? What say all of you?
Hong Kong market opens May 18 with 1kg gold contract...won't be long until silver is added...
Yah, and that's been working so well so far, hahahahah! Too many 'Brothers' paying 'cash' and demanding delivery this time around?
I mean hell, even if you're a paper bug the premiums they are having to pay to keep such a de facto default quiet would be worth the flutter, no? Arbitrage bitchez!
Personally, I hope that they can keep it up awhile longer.
Another margin hike just before an Op Ex would suit me just fine, thanks very much.
If I recall correctly, the Hunt brothers were using 10:1 leverage. Whereas now, the people who are buying from APMEX, etc. are probably using no leverage.
And what pray tell are the silver shorts using, what gearing leverage?
JPM, FRB......
Opppps!
They are using Bernanke's dollars.
And QE may end.
the rumor was "copper." interestingly "copper rose when silver sold off." since they both come from the same mine that seemed odd.
"since they both come from the same mine that seemed odd"
most (60+%) of the silver mined is actually a byproduct of mining industrial metals like copper
this is another bullish factor for silver in an economic downturn - when the economy slows down there is less demand for industrial metals so the supply of silver is reduced significantly
less silver supply to satisfy demand means higher prices
All their early purchases were cash, no leverage. 40 tonnes to Switzerland in chartered planes with armed ranch-hands as security was part of the physical stash.
Then their later Comex dealings at $35 and up were leveraged. Nine Comex members were short 38,000,000 ounces was the problem...it was all downhill from there.
21 January 1980...liquidation orders only.
I thought that in simple terms they got screwed because the exchange raised margins and the banks conspired to starve them of credit, so they were forced to start liquidating in order to meet margin and then the banks just let the bottom fall out.
As I was explaining to someone, this time there are a million Hunt brothers, so the old plan won't work.
just another reason to clutch your silver in your hands.
They do that, and all physical trading will instantly move to Mumbai or Shanghai.
Or Toronto. Eric Sprott is no fool. He knows he may own the North American physical exchange after the Comex implodes.
Here ya go! This is spot on! Or should we say..Sprott on! No doubt this is a very real possiblity. The old timers told me when I was a spry youngster; "Boy, Never put the Canuks out of the PM picture" Counterparty default at this scale on undeliverable Contracts and everyone will be saying bye bye to Comex. This goes down it will make the bank bailouts look like a walk in the park.
"Morgan vs. Mellon." Hmmm. And I thought they were dead.
What kind of effect this kind of action would have on silver price on other futures markets, physical, PSLV?
(I actually think that PSLV has the potential vastly outperform any form of silver in this situation:What if people who liquidated silver futures bought PSLV?)
Would every SWF and country put up with this if it happens?
Would that create a run on physical gold?
Would there be enough physical buyers to keep supply tight?
What assets could possiblly benefit from this action?
According to wikipedia, the Hunt brothers "had nearly cornered the global market."
Could cornering the COMEX and possibly the LBMA be classified as "the global market" today?
If the silver derevertives are going to inflict enough losses to blow up JPM if silver price goes to the moon,
coudn't silver derivertive traders blow up by the same damage that would have gone to JPM if silver price drops from the moon to the ground?
Couldn't that cause a potential LTCM type event?
Just some questions I keep on asking myself.
Brinks Bitches
this post made spot jump!
jump spot jump. See Dick run.
everytime i try to read your name, it comes out "Dangertime"
Dainjathyme's concilliatory twin brother?
I have always gone both ways.
documented selling at 24 25 ish.
Documented buying back in a little at 30 31
sold again like I said I would when silver hit 50.
called the recent top and called the bottom this morning and also documented telling everyone on the bernanke press conference blog to cover their shorts because it was over. "We hardly knew ye."
However I will probably regret selling my last little bit of silver at 50...not really....I am thinking that rental properties are starting to look really good in my area. I can buy a house cash for 20,000 and with about 3000 in improvements at a couple I have looked at can have them HUD approved and get 400 per month. HUD is never a deadbeat. Sadly it is better to rent to parasites than honest working people. I don't like that at all. I haven't bought a house for HUD investment yet, because I am afraid I would try to strangle the renters and then go to prison
BTDT on HUD, or welfare, or Section 8 as they call it in my 'hood. Keep in mind those tenants will beat the hell out of the house, and when they move out, will take the pipe and wire with them.
Once the property passes the inspections (can be a big deal) and tenants move in, the checks come on time. Honest working people have life issues that interfere with paying rent on time.
I'm not too worried when shit happens and they can't pay the rent. Honest people take much better care of the property, they don't steal stuff or antagonize the neighbors, don't cook meth or create fire hazards, and you don't have the cops looking too closely at possible drug dealers at your place- civil forfeiture is a bitch. You can pay honest people with silver to make improvements to the property (provided they get current with the rent). I know a guy who makes a shitload on late fees but I hate doing that. I've also found that allowing dogs can be a good way to keep people paying, as long as you make sure they're not pissing and shitting everywhere (the dogs I mean. Though I did have one guy who saved up his piss in buckets). And certain entitled minorities will screw you. I got burned three times in a row. Never again.
Rental property will be a good investment right after the purge. Houses will be cheap and the system won't be run by parasites, for parasites. I should have just bought more silver. Guess this is my karma for thinking I could feed the Beast with a mortgage but still be cash-flow positive and buy more PMs. Wrong.
Being a landlord isn't an investment, it's a job. You have to deal with an endless stream of unexpected bullshit from parasites. Not just your tenants, but lawyers, federal regulations, meddlesome councils, and tax-starved local governments too. Trust me, I know this, and I rent in Auckland. Imagine how bad it will be in America when TSHTF.
If you want real estate, buy fertile land in the middle of nowhere out west, with good water.
Yeah that is one thing that has kept me from pulling the trigger. but it would be an interesting investment
double check. And even if the S doesn't HTF you can turn fresh Non Monstrous Santa produce into wealth at a surprising rate.
Caveat: it's a LOT of work too, whether you are running it yourself or not; probably more than even the scummiest renters.
Then again you eat well.
Lawyers will find ya
guerrilla gardening it is then.
Completely agreed about being a landlord is a job and all the other endless hassles and issues. In my case real estate, by timing or fate, has greatly benefitted my life. I got in right and in some cases exited right but most importantly has provide a steady income stream greater than any salary I could have ever had in traditional job over the last twenty five years. Started with nothing to lose, banks took the risk, and its worked out. Been lucky to be in the right place at the right time.
if S(actually)HTF, then consider all titles and deeds void. all the mini slum lords are gonna be armed, and police what they percieve as theirs, no matter who owns it on paper.
Chaos you forgot the land in the west has radiation hitting the soil from Japan.
good call D1
I used to live in Atlanta but there's a skydiving community at the 06A airport in Alabama rich with Army special forces people. Alot of them are old, but the community is really tight. A 2 star Army General is in their group with an AF PJ and several Navy Seals. If TSHTF, these are the people you want to hook up with. They will take care of their people if you can get in to their group. I was considering moving there but found Thailand better. When the dollar collapses and the supply lines get cut, I wouldn't want to be anywhere in the USA.
PS I disagree with Simon Black's opinion of Thailand. We Americans can open a savings account even as a tourist. If you wire 50K USD's or more into your account, you have to fill out a Thai Gov form. All the banks here are hungry for us "farangs" to open accounts. My BOA account in the US and my goldmoney.com account both work great here. So if you want a good place to escape to "sitting on the moon watching an asteroid zooming by headed for the Earth", come here. If the SHTF in the Western world with paper money, Thailand outside of the cities is nothing but farm land. They grow EVERYTHING here, nobody will go hungry. If you're an American with money and a good heart, you're a rock star here. I hate to refute anything Simon Black said, but I'm living here on a retirement visa and have a local Bangkok Bank account and they like me wiring money over 50K into my account and having to fill out the government form.
New World, rent a condo here and sabai sabia.
i'm jealous
You are right on.. I have a dryer vent inspection for tomorrow AM had to pull a city permit $75.00 and pay a Union contractor to put it in ( only city licensed contractors mind you) to put in the dryer vent they wanted with insulation for last 36"..
The city will drive you nuts and let the treasured minority with 5 pitbulls selling meth next door alone for years..
It's all about the money. They know who they can bleed and who they can't. If you have a house and a real job, you are a big fat target. Probably best for Americans to be mobile these next few years, like an RV in a trailer park, or a pickup truck out of sight on BLM land.
They say you can't fight city hall, but this patriot fought and won- with an armored bulldozer! You'll never win when you play by their rules, so make your own!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Heemeyer
+1
"I have always gone both ways."
Never say that in a room full of men.
I lol'd.
Pucker, Blythe, Pucker.
See Jamie scream bloody murder.
Laugh, Lloyd laugh.
See Knukles grin, watching silver rise and betting the same circus comes to the gold pits.
Topcaller
might be better to stick with Silver for a while... US property will drop another 10% this year, and the next.. and the next! At $20k a house you're losing $2k in capital value per annum for every $4k you pick up in rent ...stay well away from property for oh about the next decade (no kidding)
With incipient inflation everywhere soon even those who've paid down their mortgage will be underwater as cost of ownership and tax liability from cash-starved local govs pushes half the middle class to cash-flow negative. No buyers for those albatrosses
Comments welcome on this scenario: Rental townhome in FL, steady rental income since we bought it while prices still were inflating. Paid $172k, value peaked over 200k, now in the low 160s. Property manager handles all (we're out of state). After taxes we're just slightly in the black. Don't need to sell it, but should we just short this thing? The town and neighborhood are excellent, lots of snow birds, retirees, low crime, lots of medical jobs, believe it or not just outside the hurricane zone. Thanks!
you shouldn't listen to me, that being said;
the way florida operates is slum sanctum slum. just a short bit of time either way along the highway and you have a reversal.. if things get bad then the slums spill over in all directions to loot the properties..
If i wasn't a bum and actually had money to invest, I wouldn't trust florida. but I couldn't honestly attempt a statement of a better direction yield wise, however, I do trust the northern most plains, as the percentage of people to property is very low. but it's a different type of situation, functional land vs. profit giving property.. who is it that owns so much range in montana? or was it wyoming? ted turner?
i feel (and please do not qoute me or care what I have to say) but grazing land might just be key as the US descends back to a more agro production model.. from the feined industrial welfare state..
as a person that lives in rental townhomes, I wouldn't trust anyone to keep paying at the rate things are going. even honest people are finding pause.. it all looks bleak to me.
Lets assume 30K total in the property out of pocket and 125 in the black each month. That's about 5% return. Beats money market. But if having the property is going to keep you up at night, numbers are different, taxes change or the RE market changes that something else. If your in the black over time you own it. Good luck.
I might be the worst case in Florida. Bought a townhome in FLL for $750K in 2006. It's now listed on Zillow for 339K. But it has Chinese drywall which means it has to be gutted and rebuilt, so it's worth about 100K at the most. A 650K loss if I quit making the payments and the bank will come after me for sure. Florida is a recourse state and I don't need the hassle with me being an ex-pat here in Thailand so I make the payments. If you buy a rental property, make sure it doesn't have toxic Chinese drywall, this stuff is really bad.