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How Goldman Prevented Today's Market Rout And Made A Quick $3 Million In The Process

Tyler Durden's picture





 

In our first of many "Trench Warfare" segments, we share with our readers the perspectives of various floor and desk traders and analysts, in this case CBOT floor trader F.S., whose valuable perspective sheds some much needed light on today's odd market behavior, and on just who was responsible, and profited from it.

I thought u might find it interesting that Golden Slacks bought 1,200 big S&Ps today near the lows – supporting/buying every selloff attempt.  With the 10 handle rally GS just made a quick $3,000,000.00.  Of course, they are selling some out now @ 1097.00 to the Johnny-Come-Lately’s – but not many.

Gee wiz, I’m sure the Vampire Squid just got lucky and didn’t have that info before hand.  Yeah – they’re very lucky.

From the Floor of the CBOT

So the next time you see Goldman making $100 million + profits on every single day in the quarter, you will at least have some idea of how it happens.

 


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Thu, 02/25/2010 - 20:17 | Link to Comment geopol
geopol's picture

Ben Bernanke,,

 

Yes we have top people looking into GS..

 

 

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 20:43 | Link to Comment suteibu
suteibu's picture

TOP...people.

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 20:59 | Link to Comment geopol
geopol's picture

Yes, The Creme De La Creme of gumshoe investigators will be eyes open while you sleep...

Fri, 02/26/2010 - 01:43 | Link to Comment PolishHammer
PolishHammer's picture

All Fed people are BOTTOMS.

Fri, 02/26/2010 - 05:54 | Link to Comment Voluntary Exchange
Voluntary Exchange's picture

These folks are already rich beyond most people's dreams. Why wouldn't they want total control of everything?  Why wouldn't their strategy be BUY EVERY DIP FOREVER, because they want it all, and they want us all groviling for anything to live: food, a home, a job, medical care, medicine.

If money is no object, the object is control, then it will be the same game till they have virtualy everything.

 

Thoughts? 

Fri, 02/26/2010 - 07:05 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Fri, 02/26/2010 - 09:34 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 02/25/2010 - 20:53 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 02/25/2010 - 21:29 | Link to Comment cclaeys
cclaeys's picture

into whom, but that is probably why you are an anon :)

Fri, 02/26/2010 - 04:09 | Link to Comment Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

Hilarious... I think I ripped one of my stitches out... Ouch...

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 23:21 | Link to Comment earnyermoney
earnyermoney's picture

BB said he's looking into GS and Greece. Not to discern fraud, but to learn how to get in on the action.

Anyone familiar with South of the Border on I-95? I'd like to send Ben home to pump gas and sell Chinese Mexican trinkets.

Sat, 02/27/2010 - 22:23 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 02/25/2010 - 23:40 | Link to Comment Fox Moulder
Fox Moulder's picture

And the SEC has our back.

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 20:18 | Link to Comment buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

They won't be selling to me. :P

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 20:19 | Link to Comment msorense
msorense's picture

The premise is that Goldman got tipped off just before the PPT came in and ramped up the futures right?

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 20:31 | Link to Comment El Hosel
El Hosel's picture

They are all in on it... GS,JPM,C,BAC etc. etc.

 The too big to fails and the Fed are one and the same, they can run the table anytime they get the urge... For now anyway.

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 21:35 | Link to Comment ToNYC
ToNYC's picture

Blank checks to keep the ship of thieves afloat on the backs of the people and future generations. We are the nre "Indians" headed toward the FEMA reservations.

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 21:54 | Link to Comment DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

nice

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 21:51 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Fri, 02/26/2010 - 02:19 | Link to Comment Pedro
Pedro's picture

Too bad this market is not an honest market.  It would be funny as hell if most regular investors (not the inside info big banks) just pulled out of the market in protest and let these big banks and the fed manipulate themselves.

"Stick it to the MAN"  Jack Black in School of Rock

Fri, 02/26/2010 - 10:41 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 02/25/2010 - 20:33 | Link to Comment Rainman
Rainman's picture

Luck is the intersection at which preparation meets opportunity.

Of all the terms used to describe Squid actions, " LUCK " should never be one of them.

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 20:52 | Link to Comment assumptionblindness
assumptionblindness's picture

Luck is a low probability event that has positive consequences.

Misfortune is a low probability event that has negative consequences.

If luck and misfortune are equally improbable then Goldman's multi-year/decade/millennia streak of "luck" is evidence that the game is rigged.  In that context "luck" does fit.

For those who are still following the standard rules of investing (i.e. cash flow, PE, EBITDA, etc.) misfortune shall continue to be your mistress.  So say the robots at the exchange...

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 22:59 | Link to Comment jedwards
jedwards's picture

Goldman had 1 losing trading day in the 2nd quarter of 2009, if I remember correctly.

This is akin to the parable in Black Swan, where someone asks "if someone flips a coin 99 times and it's always heads, what the probability that the next flip will be heads?"  The answer: 100%, because the coin is fixed.

You can't have 1 losing trading day in an entire quarter without something being fixed.  They got caught being too greedy and now their gig has been shown.

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 21:35 | Link to Comment mouser98
mouser98's picture

preparation meets opportunity is guaranteed when you create the opportunities

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 21:52 | Link to Comment DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

Goldman Luck is the intervention at which Preparation H meets immunity 

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 22:04 | Link to Comment Ned Zeppelin
Ned Zeppelin's picture

Sheer genius.

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 23:02 | Link to Comment geopol
geopol's picture

That's what I call a clear vision..

 

Fri, 02/26/2010 - 19:59 | Link to Comment DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

thanks, you were right by the way.  

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 22:57 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 02/25/2010 - 22:58 | Link to Comment cocoablini
cocoablini's picture

My old boss, who used to be in the "bidness" said: All the big banks fence orders for the USG or the FED(as they are the Fed). Those orders come in and all the banks have a moment to call each other about their individual orders. Then prior to the government order(or PPT-a collusion of government entities and private banks) the same traders scalp the market with their orders FIRST and then commit the government's, PPT, or whatever big ass G entity. And his quote-"We all do it. We all call each other and plus we eat the black box traders for lunch." Black box= tradestation software, Bollinger algos-the works. They have the info and they TRADE it. Plus, the orders are scattered between banks so one bank can't make a monster killing(or used to.) BUT, they all call each other with the insider dope and now they have access to all the government orders before they are committed.

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 20:19 | Link to Comment 4shzl
4shzl's picture

CPI down again in Japan.  Time for more zirp and govt. stimulus -- another decade or two should turn things around.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/japans-consumer-prices-fall-again-in-ja...

 

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 20:19 | Link to Comment Hot Shakedown
Hot Shakedown's picture

The illusion is finite; Celente's projections will come true.

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 20:24 | Link to Comment Almost Solvent
Almost Solvent's picture

Maybe they should just put GS in charge of the Fed / Treasury. They could work off that whole deficit thing.

Right?

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 20:38 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 02/25/2010 - 21:37 | Link to Comment ToNYC
ToNYC's picture

Did you not notice Jimmy D who got 383 Madison for a song and Chase's dream CA footprint from WaMu in the dark of night?

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 20:40 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 02/25/2010 - 20:50 | Link to Comment taraxias
taraxias's picture

They ARE in charge of the FED and Treasury, not to mention the entire US Government.

Fri, 02/26/2010 - 00:24 | Link to Comment WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

Gov't Sachs

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 20:25 | Link to Comment Gimp
Gimp's picture

Way I see it we have two choices:

1. Pull all of your money out of the rigged market.

2. Learn to play the bankstas game and buy everytime the market tanks 100 points and sell when they do the 2:30 -4:00 pm pump up.

( I am beginning to believe "Leo" is right, it is going up and only through manipulation not fundamentals)

 

Fri, 02/26/2010 - 04:10 | Link to Comment chindit13
chindit13's picture

But they also put one over on Leo by purposely hammering the solars, which is about the only sector getting its butt kicked this year.

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 20:30 | Link to Comment vainamoinen
vainamoinen's picture

Back, back, my mind drifts back to the time Enron was stripping old ladies in singles wides (and everyone in California) of their welfare checks to pay for their electric utility bills. They took Grey Davis down when "W" left him out to dry.

Modern finance at its finest.

Please keep up the good work ZH. Without reports like this we're all lost. 

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 20:41 | Link to Comment Racer
Racer's picture

Yes and my thanks too ZH,

my belief in human kind has not been completely destroyed thanks you and your team!

Without people like you, what is the point.... we are all just disposable cogs in the wheel if not for those that stand up and fight the system

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 21:47 | Link to Comment 35Pete
35Pete's picture

But we've always got CNBC too to watch our backs.

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 20:44 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 02/25/2010 - 20:45 | Link to Comment gunsmoke011
gunsmoke011's picture

Interesting - now the question becomes -- who are they going to sell all of those contracts to. The souce said they were selling some of them into the close - but not many. Is this to be taken as they want to continue to hold the contracts? My sources tell me that the S&P pit has become a virtual morgue - everyone has left to go play other markets. The S&P will only be a "Market" so long as there are people there to take the other side of the trade. So I guess JPM and GS can play S&P ping pong for longer than we would like -- but at some point - someone is going to blink. There has got to be a point where someone says -- this market is too expensive and I would like out now please. gonna be quite a show when one of only two players wants out.

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 21:14 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

There's no rush to sell when it's not your money that bought them in the first place. They have an unlimited FED backstop when engaging in these "interventions" and they're even allowed to keep this stuff off their books if it's showing a loss. Don't forget that by Presidential decree, the corporations (any entity really) of America can cook the books if the President decides it's a national security issue.

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/may2006/nf20060523_2210.htm?campaign_id=rss_daily

This is the most important issue of them all because this is how it's being swept under the rug and why most people are going along. It's legal. Thus in the eyes of many people, there is no moral issue. This is the modern day financial equivalent of "indulgences", fees paid to the church during the Middle Ages for a free ticket to heaven regardless of what you've done.

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indulgence

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 21:17 | Link to Comment deadhead
deadhead's picture

There's no rush to sell when it's not your money that bought them in the first place. They have an unlimited FED backstop when engaging in these "interventions

Absolutely the truth.  

I've seen enough in the past several months where I personally don't need an audit of the Fed.  It's pretty damn obvious that they are buying just about everything and anything.

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 21:50 | Link to Comment merehuman
merehuman's picture

Today its not so easy to be Martin Luther !

But the modern version comes in multiples at Zerohedge and a few sites on utube.

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 22:06 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 02/25/2010 - 20:52 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 02/25/2010 - 21:57 | Link to Comment Countrygenius
Countrygenius's picture

If 80% of your investments are 'buy and hold', you are going to be a very sad person a few years from now. (plus very poor also)

One thing that will help is this: You should start reading Zero Hedge's articles and worry less about the 'comment' section.

If you were truly reading the articles and absorbing them you would know that 'buy and hold died' the day they first introduced the 401K into law.

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 22:10 | Link to Comment WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

It depends on the investment. I'm 100% buy and "hold in my hand".

Fri, 02/26/2010 - 00:36 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 02/25/2010 - 22:07 | Link to Comment 35Pete
35Pete's picture

Buy and hold? Are you fucking serious?

Here's a newsflash. Polyester is out of style, Saturday Night Fever is no longer in the box office, a pack of smokes costs way more than 30 cents, and you can get arrested in Texas country roads for driving with a beer in your hand.

 

Fri, 02/26/2010 - 07:09 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 02/25/2010 - 22:39 | Link to Comment Dirtt
Dirtt's picture

Is this David Axelrod or Blankfeins window washer?

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 20:52 | Link to Comment Reflexivity
Reflexivity's picture

If GS can really influence the market as strongly as implied by this article, then why don't all market participants just invest everything into GS and hold it long-term?  The thought being that if GS can single-handedly manipulate the market, then why risk being on the other side of their trade on any given day?

If you can't beat them (market influence wise), why not consider joining 'em in the form a sizable GS stock acquisition?

 

 

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 20:59 | Link to Comment buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

GS shareholders get jack squat. A 0.7% divi and the mouse's share of the spoils. You'd be better off buying their bonds from Warren B..

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 22:45 | Link to Comment Eric W
Eric W's picture

Absolutely correct. They are not in business for the shareholders. The shareholders exist for the protection of GS.

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 20:54 | Link to Comment Going Down
Going Down's picture

 

Trench Warfare

 

Following up on "Postcards From Greece" with its scenes of disenfranchised youth turned anarchists, I'll have my camera ready for "trench warfare" LA style. Our Crips and Bloods have a truce at present so violent crime is down. LAPD fears that the gangs are teaming up in preparation for attacks on the wealthier parts of the city.

 

Watch...when California goes bankrupt we'll have trench warfare alright because we've got Uzis and AK-47s. Fresh outta Compton!

 

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 21:40 | Link to Comment ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

It just might be time for the Crips and Bloods to work co-operatively on a new 'jobs' program in the NY financial district... let's see... violent gang members vs. banksters.

All I want is the pay per view and gaming rights!

Fri, 02/26/2010 - 00:33 | Link to Comment WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

Now consider the "bad side" of America.  The Justice Department estimates there are at least one million gang members - active gang members - in America.  These people, mostly young males, have nearly all drawn or fired weapons in anger.  They are responsible for more than three quarters of all crime in this country, and some eight out of ten violent crimes.  Those gang members have families - younger males who are "coming up", "friends" (if you can call a murderous thug a friend) and others.  Between all of those "loosely attached" folks and the hard-core inner circle itself we probably have somewhere between 5 and 10 million people in this nation who, given the wrong sort of provocation, might decide that "Zombieland" wasn't just a movie.

 

If it gets bad, and I believe both history and the math says it will, who's going to help you?  Do you really think the entirety of the 150,000 Federal Officers will come to your aid?  Or will they sit in Washington DC and in their big black Suburbans (armored, of course) issuing orders for you to go into the streets in your (unarmored) Crown Vics and die in their place?  Remember that the "bad guys" in such a circumstance outnumber you 10 or even 20:1 and not only are they probably armed as well as you are, they've actually shot - offensively - at other human beings.  Unless you're one of the "bad cops" you've never done that, and few of you have had to fire in self-defense.  Your only realistic advantage in such a situation is that most of the gangbangers are pretty poor marksman.

 

http://market-ticker.denninger.net/archives/P4.html

Whoever junked you doesn't know shit. Like so many issues here in the states it's only a matter of time.

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 20:58 | Link to Comment john_connor
john_connor's picture

Hope they sold a shit load EOD because equities are about to bleed red for a month.

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 23:07 | Link to Comment greased up deaf guy
greased up deaf guy's picture

hello jc.

i'm as bearish as the next guy/gal in these parts, but what makes you so sure of your bearishness, especially in the somewhat immediate timeframe? i hope you're right... believe me... just curious what potentially imminent events give you such confidence in light of the alleged manipulation we've been seeing for the past, oh, twelve months.

thanks in advance for your insights.

Fri, 02/26/2010 - 00:13 | Link to Comment john_connor
john_connor's picture

Aside from the stuff that we all look at, ie Channels, fib levels, MACD, RSI, etc., the number 1 thing that has caught my eye is the self similarity of the current wave to the fractal wave from Feb.1 to Feb. 3.  The fractal equivalence and symmetry as the current wave scales up is beautiful, like poetry in motion.  So, I think we are dropping hard tomorrow, or shortly, like in a day or two.  It is hard for me to tell whether we have completed the full "head" from Feb. 2-3, or if we need another up move, likely higher than yesterdays close but lower than the recent 10438 high (lets guess 10400), then a quick move down, like 80 points, followed by another move up to a lower high, like 10375, then an absolute bloodbath.  The bloodbath will be a scaled up version of the Feb 4th thru 8th drop.  The initial drop should be in the range of 800 Dow points, with little reprieve, followed by another 1000 point drop.  The time factor appears to 3-4X the initial fractal, although time is less important than price.  But assuming that scaling factor, I would guess each drop will take 3-5 days.  My intuition is that the time factor will scale even larger as this progresses, so the selling may take up to like a month, and that would fit in to the normal manipulation and interference that occurs.

Fri, 02/26/2010 - 00:35 | Link to Comment WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

Good stuff. Very interesting in the least. A coupla' notches above my understanding.

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 21:02 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 02/25/2010 - 21:07 | Link to Comment gunsmoke011
gunsmoke011's picture

Cognitive Dissonance

"Don't forget that by Presidential decree, the corporations (any entity really) of America can cook the books if the President decides it's a national security issue"

I had not heard of this before - do you have a link please -- TIA.

So now -- GS profits have become an issue of National Security -- Jesus - what will they come up with next?

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 21:15 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/may2006/nf20060523_2210.htm?campaign_id=rss_daily

And this is just what's been released to the public. Many Presidential orders, both by Bush and now Obama, are secret and not know to the public.

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 21:20 | Link to Comment deadhead
deadhead's picture

Add to that Exec Order 12631 and probably the real biggie, the emergency powers granted under the Federal Reserve Act.

 

We've got a legal license to do just about anything.

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 21:48 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

The PPT (created by 12631) was the first significant legalization of overt and covert intervention and manipulation in the markets. For years and years it was under the radar and it was not even publicly acknowledged there was such a beast. You were laughed at if you even mentioned it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_Group_on_Financial_Markets

Like I said above, I suspect there have been other "Presidential orders" to enable the unprecedented thieving and manipulation. Years from now, it will all come out when it's too late to do shit about it.

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 21:49 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Fri, 02/26/2010 - 03:17 | Link to Comment faustian bargain
faustian bargain's picture

He said nothing tin-foil-hattish. You think he's incorrect about executive orders?

Fri, 02/26/2010 - 10:02 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

The Anon is simply seeding doubt in my statement. It's not intended to change your mind. It's to keep the undecided, the frightened people who are beginning to peek above the pen walls, safely within the lie. Most people don't want to believe their government is corrupt and dangerous to their health. But the evidence is getting pretty think.

When they visit sites like ZH, even when there are 20 comments talking about manipulation, just one like Anon about will help them feel better. There is no greater feeling than being frightened and then being told what you want to hear. Better than sex.

Fri, 02/26/2010 - 22:48 | Link to Comment DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

"it will all come out when it's too late to do shit about it."

the ultimate cliff notes on history

Fri, 02/26/2010 - 00:10 | Link to Comment Almost Solvent
Almost Solvent's picture

Double secret probation sux!

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 21:19 | Link to Comment Cistercian
Cistercian's picture

 I'm sorry but you are asking the wrong kind of question.

 Why do you hate free enterprise?Why do you hate America?

 

 I am being silly of course.National security is the penultimate hiding place for the MOST VILE scum.

 Which engenders the following...how much afghan opium cash hits equities every day?

 And if GS is doing God's work, which god is darth referring to?

It will end badly....and that I know for certain.

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 21:40 | Link to Comment fuu
Thu, 02/25/2010 - 21:14 | Link to Comment Instant Karma
Instant Karma's picture

Once Tyler laid out that it was a full 9 billion in S&P futures that jacked the market from its lows in minutes, it was clear this was no mere single bank. Can Goldman alone pump 9 billion in futures? I doubt it. Probably a combination of players including the PPT, maybe some short covering. This market will not be allowed to "fail" (read fall). The stock market is one asset class that manipulation can keep suspended in air, unlike housing prices and wages and jobs.

Then I got to thinking, when did this start in earnest? Probably near the March 2009 bottom. I'm guessing that not only did the PPT intervene to put in a Bottom in March, it was more than that. There was a plan to walk the market up to about DJIA 10,000 by the end of the year, and keep it there. If the market broke higher, fine, But the stock market was going to be walked up to 10K. Period. That was the plan. It you have the money and the traders its not hard to do.

Question is, what's the plan from here? Probably to continue to keep the market in a tight range until the news turns from bad to good, at which time the market will take off on its own.

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 21:30 | Link to Comment gmak
gmak's picture

Ummmm. $9 billion in ES requires about what in margin? $900 million. That's just 9 days profit for the GS prop desk.

Right?

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 21:36 | Link to Comment kennard
kennard's picture

It started in earnest when Obama said, in March '09, "I think that the market is undervalued." At the time, I thought such a remark coming from a President was bizzare. In retrospect, he was telegraphing his followers.

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 23:04 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 02/25/2010 - 21:47 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 02/25/2010 - 21:34 | Link to Comment Overpowered By Funk
Overpowered By Funk's picture

One of these days the market will go up on virtually no volume and no one will think anything of it. It won't be long.

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 21:36 | Link to Comment johngaltfla
johngaltfla's picture

There is no PPT.

There is no PPT.

There is no PPT.

There is no PPT.

I keep saying it but damned if there isn't one.

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 22:23 | Link to Comment carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

PPT has gone virtual, it's whoever gets the tweet.

Fri, 02/26/2010 - 07:29 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 02/25/2010 - 21:39 | Link to Comment ChickenTeriyakiBoy
ChickenTeriyakiBoy's picture

good piece. look forward to seeing more of this "trench warfare" business

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 21:52 | Link to Comment Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Keeping a bid under the market is part of the Fed's grand reflation plan.

Never forget how this harms the real economy and is ultimately unsustainable: It is igniting inflation in crucial areas: the cost of living (for consumers) and input costs for manufacturers. Rising energy, food, industrial commodity costs are happening while there is simultaneous deflation in key areas: real estate, employment, incomes and retirement assets. Now is you add in the third whammy, anemic access to credit and high consumer credit costs you have the mother of all impending doom scenarios. 

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 21:52 | Link to Comment BlackBeard
BlackBeard's picture

They probably had some equity positions to get out of and wanted a better price.

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 21:56 | Link to Comment Chopshop
Chopshop's picture

i realize how sexy the headline and "insider" 'quote' are, but 'you' simply cannot be serious that GS either orchestrated a bottom or 'had advance knowledge' of such thing.  this man behind the curtain crap is really getting of hand, as if the very concept itself wasn't laughable enough.

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 22:24 | Link to Comment Rick64
Rick64's picture

So you think the traders in the pit don't know what their talking about?

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 23:04 | Link to Comment Chopshop
Chopshop's picture

not directed at the author, source or you Rick: but, in aggregate, um yeah, they don't know shit about TA and are mostly tape-readers with basic psychological legs up who employ order flow to shuffle round yelling all day while primping spreads for their paychecks. 

it's one thing to bitch about some big bad algo, fine; it's another to cry wolf ( 'GS did it, GS did it' )every time ya get snipered by your own big toe walking up the stairs. 

at what point does anyone take personal responsibility for their own decisions / decision-making and stop playing pathetic pussy possum with this " 'man behind the curtain' fucked me" bullshit.

if you can't play, don't.

if the waters aren't calm enough for you, don't swim.

honestly, wtf is so hard about picking your spots, managing risk n learning a bit about not only TA but the idiosyncratic machinations of today's electronic financial markets.? oh, yeah, TA is bogus and news moves markets. riiight.

again: if you don't want to spend the time to learn the game, then don't play.

again: if you can't play the game or see the Matrix in all it's gloriously green 0's n 1's, then don't bitch bc others can and 'you' need to make yourself feel better by claiming conspiracy n crying foul.

randomness n religion have nothing to do with financial markets or trading.  like a fat girl with a pint of cherry garcia in front of ER or some such mindless drivel, these things 'help "investors" feel better about themselves after a long day of failure.  bottom line: ya can't say mandarin dudn't work just cause you can't / don't speak it.  ya can't say dancing or dunking is impossible bc ur jaleel white.  some of us get urkel'd up over trading and, while i'm obviously not gonna make a single friend saying my peace in such terse fashion, my point is that this GS HFT algo banksta wolf crying is just so f'ing lame, tired n hackneyed.  if you can't play in the pool, then either find you that you can or simply don't swim.  at the end of the day, it is your gain / your loss ... so stop bitching and change something. if you don't wanna change yourself then simply cease throwing coin away like ur trying to beat bison at the end of street fighter II.  stop the bleeding, call it a day, regroup n come up with a plan of action.  if you don't have one of those as well as a written trading plan going into each session, you're just driving aimlessly w/o direction (until you crash) like a 17 y/o asian woman on a snowy on-ramp.

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 23:09 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Fri, 02/26/2010 - 00:39 | Link to Comment WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

It is somewhat glorious. I still feel the markets are too manipulated, but chop always makes a good point or nine.

Fri, 02/26/2010 - 03:03 | Link to Comment Reductio ad Absurdum
Reductio ad Absurdum's picture

Chopshop, this is easily the stupidest thing you've ever written (which is saying something).

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 23:58 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Fri, 02/26/2010 - 02:04 | Link to Comment Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Haha. You spend years slavishly devoting yourself to "playing" in an unecessarily complicated world. You've got noone to blame but yourself when it all tears apart like a turbine moving through a flock of seagulls.

I know it's going to be rough and you'll feel like a computer geek in a knife fight.

And you'll feel out of place like a mathematician on a farm.

Some of us get urkl'd up when our car won't start and we can't just call someone on our iPhone and pay them gambling winnings to fix our car.

So I hope you maintain your good attitude of responsability when your screwed from living a life that is so useless and you'll understand when the 17 year old asian girl runs you down and keeps driving that it's not because she's a bad driver. It's just because she didn't want to waste the gas braking for a pedestrian.

Again when everyone is tired of the stupid game. Don't go crying because nobody wants to play with you because it's boring and it's not worth it and it gets us nowhere. May your sympathy, indifference and blame be returned to you.

Fri, 02/26/2010 - 02:18 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Fri, 02/26/2010 - 02:45 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Fri, 02/26/2010 - 15:44 | Link to Comment Rick64
Rick64's picture

Chopshop

  Really appreciate the response. To your point, I am of the opinion that T/A works even better now that a lot of trading is computerized ( had to adjust some things, mostly my mentality) .

 I do like to complain about the injustices in trading and I believe that they have always existed in some shape or form. What I consider stepping over the line is when tax dollars are used to a much greater degree for these institutions verses helping the common citizen.

Fri, 02/26/2010 - 19:18 | Link to Comment john_connor
john_connor's picture

Chop, I like the cut of your jib sir.

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 22:58 | Link to Comment Dirtt
Dirtt's picture

Is it possible that dumb money wants to (or already did) take their ball and go home?  And that the failures of GE's problem children to keep the buzz alive has hampered their ability to stick dumb money with overpriced equities.

And possibly the real battle is between "smart money" and smart money who feel trapped in the face of the worst economic conditions in two or three of my lifetimes.

Flat or short. If this market goes another 25% perhaps a little scalping is in order along the way but I have better things to do than go long. The strategy is disciplined money management. Don't get greedy.  This market is seriously lagging in every sense of the word.

In October 2007 the predicament was not the same but the reality was the same as now.  Now the predicament is worse and the reality the same as now.  Bulls enjoy what's left.  Please. You are "earning" it.

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 22:01 | Link to Comment doggis
doggis's picture

this is manipulation of the market - pure and simple. and only when all  market participants are fully complacent and playing the rigged casino using their rules - that is when they will change the rules and collapse the market. money is made in both directions.  

it is the goldman sachs pump and dump way to success.

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 22:03 | Link to Comment Racer
Racer's picture

Banks are borrowing at nowt percent interest yet lending at 17 or more percent interest on credit cards..... scam, money lender, shark, con person, they are all the same now but legalised by the governments. the poor are being ripped off every day even more and losing their jobs more and more

 

It is time for a REVOLUTION against the banksters and con men that are in power who force money to be given from the poor to give to the rich

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 22:16 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 02/25/2010 - 22:22 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 02/25/2010 - 22:25 | Link to Comment carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

 In the old days it used to be manipulation. But since no one is doing anything about it, it's become SOP.

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 22:47 | Link to Comment foxmuldar
foxmuldar's picture

Buy and hold? Are you fucking serious?

Here's a newsflash. Polyester is out of style, Saturday Night Fever is no longer in the box office, a pack of smokes costs way more than 30 cents, and you can get arrested in Texas country roads for driving with a beer in your hand.

Anna Nicole Smith married for love, and WMDs were in Iraq.  LOL 

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 23:02 | Link to Comment Dirtt
Dirtt's picture

"Polyester is out of style,"?

 

Really.  Does that have anything to do with the crisis in Greece?

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 22:49 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 02/25/2010 - 23:20 | Link to Comment cocoablini
cocoablini's picture

Listen, The market IS manipulated. The spygunner is proof.

It has to be manipulated because it's in a fucking COMA. There is no volume. They have to pay trade bots to pass bits back and forth to resemble liquidity. If the banks didn't have the rebate system(.5 cents a share) there would be no liquidity and huge bid to ask ratios that resemble pink sheet stocks.

The whole goddamn economy is on lifesupport-Ben,Tim the PPT and all the peaheads know that they have to break the law, be opaque, give the powerbrokers sweetheart deals and screw over the US citizen because unless they do all of the above(God's work as "he"says) the whole market system will collapse. There will be NO buyer for your daytrades. Your position will be stuck. the bid/ask will be like the grand canyon-your orders will be executed a week from now and the bond market would fail and collapse(as it's a credit system.)

To pretend that everything is normal, there's a rebate for passing stock back and forth-server to server. The FED quantitatively eases illegally via "proxies" in the middle of the night to prevent failed auctions and a currency collapse.

It's all 100% broken. Dead. Kaput. The only time you see life signs is when momo traders dump. Usually occurring to the dollar-carry(free money) trade movements.

Anyone trading in this market needs to know that they are in the MATRIX. Its not real, not rational and in many instances goes against instinct because a huge trader(USG) has no profit motive and that fracks up the entire market.

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 23:41 | Link to Comment tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

 voila

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 23:57 | Link to Comment Arthur
Arthur's picture

Can anyone run a back test over the last nine months as to how you would have done buying SPY or some other index product every day at 10:00am and selling at 3:30PM?   My guess is you would be substantially ahead with all the hockey stick saves.

Fri, 02/26/2010 - 00:03 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Fri, 02/26/2010 - 00:04 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Fri, 02/26/2010 - 01:36 | Link to Comment Bear
Bear's picture

You're right ... it reverses all the time but why is GS always at the right place at the right time ... I have followed these markets for 10 years now minute by minute and not until March of last year has they they been 'prop' up at every release of bad news. The fundamentals have deteriorated on a monthly basis for the last 20 months yet miracle after miracle occurs every day and night as the Bid light seems to burn out with great regularity.

I am bitter but still ahead of the game.  I lose more often than GS, but it's been pretty easy to anticipate their action.

One day they will reverse and then watch out ... all at once 150 SP points down.  

Fri, 02/26/2010 - 00:05 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Fri, 02/26/2010 - 01:29 | Link to Comment Bear
Bear's picture

Why does GS make money on every single day of trading ... never a losing one? It's impossible unless there are other factors at play.

Fri, 02/26/2010 - 06:11 | Link to Comment taraxias
taraxias's picture

Of course, after all they do God's work, so who are we to complain?

<<<<SARCASM OFF>>>>

Fri, 02/26/2010 - 00:31 | Link to Comment RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

If GS really wanted to get the market flying, they would forget about the S & P 500 futures and start buying the XLF or RKH.

With this monstrous trading range, any and all breakouts of significance will be immediately seized upon by the momentum technical traders.  Once everyone and their brother sees the banks "breaking out" of a huge range, then the rest of the sectors will follow en masse.

Think about it.

How easy would it be to get this thing moving???

A "measured move" takes this to $28, easy....

s

 

 

Fri, 02/26/2010 - 00:51 | Link to Comment bruiserND
bruiserND's picture
Dear conspiracy theorists,   The S&P future trades on the floor of the CME, the Dow Jones trades on the floor of the CBOT.   You want real crime?
You want to see just how stupid Blankfine is?
"I don't want to get too far out over my skis on this"
  Lloyd Blankfein Question at FCIC Hearing 1/13/2010   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lR6jivz3m4M&feature=player_embedded   1) GSA knew that massive piles of garbage was in the CDO's
2)GSA conned the buyers of said CDO's to believe the attached CDS were backed by GSA thus making said CDO's "OK" with a GSA IMPRIMATUR for intellectually lazy or just plain stupid fiduciaries that bought them.
3) GSA took their marked up CDS and laid the risk off by taking the CDS's to AIG for "re-insurance".
4) GSA aggressively marked down the collateral in a post Delphi bankruptcy world and demanded cash from AIG.
5) GSA knew that AIG couldn't pay so they took out CDS protection against AIG knowing that they OWNED Treasury Secy Paulson and the taxpayer would backstop the CDS losses.
6)Paulson got on his knees and begged Pelosi for the Congressional appropriation of $787 billion ,demanded a covenant not to sue himself for the looting of the Treasury to pay the trade.
7)It is a felony in 50 states to intentionally inflict a loss on an insurance company.
8)Peter Walliston from the AEI is a pimp for the ISDA which explains the softball questions and the submissive & digustingly defferential behavior. 
  if this government is legitimate, then why hasn't Congress and the Senate held formal investigations and open hearings on Credit Default Swaps, Collateralized Debt Obligations and fraudulently securitized toxic mortgage backed securities?    http://www.takeitbackday.org/   Thank you Your Honor,the prosecution rests    

 

Fri, 02/26/2010 - 06:52 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Fri, 02/26/2010 - 08:09 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Fri, 02/26/2010 - 12:32 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Sun, 02/28/2010 - 05:42 | Link to Comment Grand Supercycle
Grand Supercycle's picture

 

The ongoing SP500 / DOW buying support continues, so we should get more counter trend rally this week. More EURO counter trend rally too.

http://www.zerohedge.com/forum/market-outlook-0

Fri, 04/16/2010 - 11:06 | Link to Comment Tom123456
Tom123456's picture

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