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Howard Buffett Said "Human Freedom Rests On Gold Redeemable Money", Called For Return To Gold Standard
Sometimes the apple does fall very, very far from the tree. A must read essay by Howard Buffett, father of the "legendary" investor who initially was so very much against derivatives then promptly changed his tune, discusses fiat money and gold, and concludes that "human freedom rests on gold redeemable money." In this stunningly simple, straightforward, and flawless analysis, Buffett's father stresses the relation between money and freedom and contends that without a redeemable currency, an individual's freedom and one's access to property is dependent on goodwill of politicians. Buffett also says that paper money systems generally collapse and result in economic chaos. He goes on to observe that a gold standard would restrict government spending and give people greater power over the public purse. Lastly, back in 1948, Howard Buffett, said this the "present" is the right time to restore the gold standard. Alas, 60 years later, his advice has still been largely ignored, and as a result we have a global economy that stands on the precipice of global default with runaway budget deficits across the entire developed world. Key quotes: "Is there a connection between Human Freedom and A Gold Redeemable Money? At first glance it would seem that money belongs to the world of economics and human freedom to the political sphere. But when you recall that one of the first moves by Lenin, Mussolini and Hitler was to outlaw individual ownership of gold, you begin to sense that there may be some connection between money, redeemable in gold, and the rare prize known as human liberty. Also, when you find that Lenin declared and demonstrated that a sure way to overturn the existing social order and bring about communism was by printing press paper money, then again you are impressed with the possibility of a relationship between a gold-backed money and human freedom." His conclusion is eerily prophetic with what is happening with US society currently: "I warn you that politicians of both parties will oppose the restoration of gold, although they may outwardly seemingly favor it. Unless you are willing to surrender your children and your country to galloping inflation, war and slavery, then this cause demands your support. For if human liberty is to survive in America, we must win the battle to restore honest money."
And of course, the Federal Reserve is at the forefront of those who will do everything in their power to prevent a return of the gold standard:
Most opponents of free coinage of gold admit that that restoration is essential, but claim the time is not propitious. Some argue that there would be a scramble for gold and our enormous gold reserves would soon be exhausted.
Actually this argument simply points up the case. If there is so little confidence in our currency that restoration of gold coin would cause our gold stocks to disappear, then we must act promptly.
The danger was recently highlighted by Mr. Allan Sproul, President of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, who said:
"Without our support (the Federal Reserve System), under present conditions, almost any sale of government bonds, undertaken for whatever purpose, laudable or otherwise, would be likely to find an almost bottomless market on the first day support was withdrawn."
Our finances will never be brought into order until Congress is compelled to do so. Making our money redeemable in gold will create this compulsion.
Full essay below, which we are confident was never read by Howard "oracular" son.
h/t William
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A gold standard is irrelevant. Sorry, system collapsed last time on a gold standard, and the time before that, and the time before that, and the time before that, etc.
Sorry, humans lend and borrow their medium of exchange with attached interest, eventually you run out... system collapses.
See history of human civilization also see equation for compounding interest with chart.
Heck, they are still lending and borrowing gold, bullion banks are doing it this second. I can lend and borrow gold with compounding interest just the same I can FRNs or chickenwire.
I care not what you use as your medium of exchange, have a system where millions and billions are attaching compounding interest to it, you will eventually run out, even if it were based on grains of sand.
Mako is now on my list of favorite posters. So many excellent posters here.
Easy credit.
How and when will we run out of Federal Reserve Notes? And how is that question not qualitatively different when you use a hard, limited currency?
You are conflating all "collapses" into one big pile of evil. Which is not the case.
You are already running a negative credit creation rate right now.... See Federal Reserve Z1 report.
"You are conflating all "collapses" into one big pile of evil. Which is not the case."
- Credit system starts
- Credit system expands
- Credit system unable to expand
- Credit system peaks
- Credit system collapses
- System liquidates the unfunded liabilities to it's max
- Humans usually choose to rinse and repeat
Do you think I, or anyone else here, are saying the humans should choose to rinse and repeat a credit system such as we've had? (OK maybe a few are.) Because I don't think that at all. I do think the way to guarantee that happens is to consolidate all monetary and fiscal control into one big central basket. Decentralize that 'system' and you have ongoing low-level, local expansions and contractions that do not do 'systemic' damage, a chaotic system as opposed to a bell-curve system. The two types are qualitatively different, and I believe the former is much more sustainable (if not perpetually) than the latter.
But, even if your 8th grade math is absolutely correct 100% of the time, the period involved with a chaotic system is going to be way longer than the centralized one. Therefore, a reason for preference.
I can lend and borrow gold with compounding interest just the same I can FRNs or chickenwire.
Sure, but try carrying enough chickenwire in your pocket to exchange for a sandwich. Oil leaves a nasty stain on your pants too, I hear.
The "system" didn't collapse. Only the governments, when they spent more than they had.
The "system" has only collapsed once in recorded history, with the fall of the Roman Empire. That happened because, again, the government overextended itself.
Lending at interest has never caused a crash. Government interference in the markets always causes crashes.
Money to pay the interest always comes from consumer spending. You refuse to understand this, or even consider it, and simply call anyone who says anything different from you a moron.
The fact is that if every single person lent all of their money out at interest, a, no-one would be taking a loan, and b, the interest rate would be zero, as there is a vast supply of money for loans, and no demand. Take it to the other extreme, where no-one saves anything, and instead spends absolutely everything they make, then the interest rate is infinite, because there is no supply of savings to lend, and vast demand. Governments like people to consume more, so they manipulate the interest rates to make them consume more. They debase their currencies in order to facilitate this, until it reaches a point where nothing can be saved, because the unit of trade loses all value almost instantaneously.
When you have interest that compounds beyond the ability to pay (in your example, beyond the amount of gold on Earth), then default occurs, and some people go bankrupt, and life goes on. This happens very quickly when the government doesn't interfere (read up on the Depression of 1920).
Sigh, but you're probably just going to call me a moron again, while you go your marry way, never thinking new thoughts until the day you die, miserably poor an alone because you refused to understand what others comprehend instinctually.
faustian bargain said:
technical name - gold exchange standard - was the replacement for the gold standard in 1922, and even that was ended in 1971.
Gold standard refers to international settlement of trade in gold, not the ability of citizens to buy and hold gold themselves.
"as long as you continue to lend and borrow at a rate of compounding interest you will continue to see collapses."
Mako, I've explained this to you before, but I'll give it one more chance to sink in. The total quantity of money doesn't change one whit due to charging interest. Defaults may happen here and there, but there are lenders making interest and borrowers constructing successful businesses with the borrowed funds. After all, if someone loses, someone else has to gain. The money has to go SOMEWHERE.
If you want something to worry about, it should be fractional reserve banking (i.e. fraud) that alters the money supply by huge factors (like 10x) and can trigger a sudden worldwide collapse when bank runs occur.
"The total quantity of money doesn't change one whit due to charging interest."
I have never implied any such thing, read slower.
"I have never implied any such thing [the money supply changing due to charging interest], read slower."
"Humans will find anything to attach compounding interest to, eventually you run out... collapse... liquidation. "
So what is compounding interest causing us to run out of exactly?
"So what is compounding interest causing us to run out of exactly?"
You will never be able to supply or demand the needed amount exponentially long-term, unless you believe humans have unlimited power. System is unable to expand, system is not able to pay out interest payments, everyone takes what they have off the table, game over.
As long as you attach compounding interest, eventually system collapse at the end of the cycle... humans are pretty good at getting about 60-80 years out of it... 8th grade Math.
http://www.tradingdiary.co.uk/data/2010/0328/becoming-a-billionaire-with...
If you think you can mine gold at an exponential rate long-term I think you are in for a rude awakening.
no the price of gold just will go up
plenty of gold. thats the point gold acts as a control of the printing of money ,
just go ask nixon ,, he needed to get gold out of theway to print.
also bck in 1839 same drill ,, they needed firns for the march to war, and the debasement of the paper .
sure zit head bravo can use a few firns to buy his taco,,but the firns used are increasing ,
gold just will buy the taco .. for the same price ,
oh and to exchange the gold for the paper .. just do it,
or go to kmart or sears the china people will take your gold now for what ever is in the store , ,
the exhanging of real for real is approaching fast
so the argument that gold is not useful is the equivalent of saying who needs seeds to grow plants
dumpster will make the promise tha tif you own gold and silver it will be useful to buy the essentials when the fiat is being tossed around like toilet paper
"so the argument that gold is not useful is the equivalent of saying who needs seeds to grow plants"
Nobody said it couldn't be useful, a rock can be useful and chickenwire can be useful as well. It's not going to save the system and does not stop the root problem which is the lending of your medium of exchange with compounding interest attached. It's simple math.
Lose the compound interest argument and replace with fractional reserve banking and your thesis is more accurate. It entails, as you correctly stated, a continuous expansion to keep the game going. After x amount of time (historically about one generation give or take), this system implodes (forcing deflation or devaluation, followed by, in some instances, massive inflation/hyperinflation (dependent upon actions by prevailing governments). I am a big believer in precious metals in this current environment; however, the error of fractional reserve banking is as old as time itself, as the ancient gold merchants (that held gold for his customers because it was too unweildy or unsafe to carry on one's person) discovered that they could lend out their customer's gold many times over (at interest, I grant you) keeping just enough to satisfy the immediate needs of his customers. Thus we get an expanding "faux" money supply which inevitably leads to a confidence in currency crisis (i.e. - bank run). This current bout of quantitative easing/counterfeiting is merely an attempt to continue this gmae and squeeze a little more time out of this flawed fractional reserve based system. ALL moves within the last couple of decades have been to "milk" an inadequate system that by design has to fail at a certain point in time. Then we start over. Don't confuse the criminal activites by the central banks, investment banks and the global political structures as the cause - it is merely a reaction to the cause (comparable to rats scurrying off a sinking ship). I don't give the perpetrators a pass at all - they merely know "what's up" and unfortunately for the unknowing masses this will ultimately lead to a disproportionate transfer of wealth to their collective disadvantage.
Fractional reserve has nothing to do with it.
You can't lend and have it at the same time. Fractional reserve is just a rule to keep some on hand instead of lending it all out.
I can create a no reserve system.
Thank you, Mako, for conclusively demonstrating the depths of your ignorance.
But do rant on --- it is most entertaining.
The money to pay debts and invest in growth.
It is consumed eventually by interest. The currency then runs out, causes a financial crisis, leads to deflation, and requires printing just to get to pre-crisis levels.
That's why we've printed the large amounts of money we have and with no inflation. That money was needed to cover the amount of debt and liabilities that already existed in the system.
When money supply gets less than economic activity, THAT is when you have a recession/credit crisis.
That is why we can print all the money we want and it won't cause inflation, let alone hyperinflation. The money isn't being spent on consumption.
Don't wake these guys up too much, they still believe in the Wizard of Oz ie Helicopter Ben. They really do believe Helicopter Ben is coming in to save them, nothing could be further from the Truth.
If any of those guys see Helicopter Ben, please tell him to drop off a pizza, a 12 pack of beer and 99 virgins while he is flying around. :)
"Don't wake these guys up too much, they still believe in the Wizard of Oz ie Helicopter Ben."
So you're saying, because I think it's a valid contract when two people agree to exchange loanable funds for a certain amount of interest, then that means I must support counterfeiting (fiat currency) and fraud (fractional reserve banking).
You can support or not support whatever you want. If you have millions and billions of people that put a system together and do it in mass, eventually you will not be able to supply and demand what is needed then you move on to liquidation.
The choice is yours.
Who believes in Helicopter Ben? Sorry, I'm starting to think you're tilting at imaginary windmills. Sorry, if you read the comments to almost any post on ZH, many (most?) here believe this system is collapsing or is about to, with no rescue possible. Sorry, your smug condescension is misplaced.
"your smug condescension is misplaced"
If the shoe fits, it fits. I believed what all the stupid humans believe today believe that Helicopter Ben has unlimited power, then I finally woke up.
Ohhh, I think that I get the misapprehension JB is operating under now. Whew.
He seems to believe that when a loan is repaid in full, anything above the principal gets devoured by the monstrous creature 'Int-er-Est', never to see the light of day again, even in that horrific demon's excrement.
Regards
johhny bravo your as stupid as a stump
we have 10 percent inflation now , maybe not the hyperinflation,, but where can any of you people buy sevices , health care , food , any of the day to day stuff and claim that their is no inflation
"The money to pay debts and invest in growth." - But I thought we agreed the money supply is unchanged when interest is charged?
"It is consumed eventually by interest." - The money is "consumed"? Like, someone eats it? If I lend my lawn mower out for a day in exchange for $5, then the $5 disappears?
"That's why we've printed the large amounts of money we have" - So the government prints money, not to spend it, but as a favor to society to make up for the magically disappearing money? Got it.
"That is why we can print all the money we want and it won't cause inflation, let alone hyperinflation." - Cool, let me print up $1 billion and go spend it in your town and see what happens to prices there. Let me bid it against items you are trying to buy.
It's funny when people who don't understand basic economics feel they should post about it.
He knows he's stupid. That is irrelevant in his mind. He needs attention, like a spoiled child.
1913- - - Gold $20.00/ oz
2010- - - Gold $1200/ oz.
Fed Reserve starts printing around about 1913 (I presume),
No inflation?
Get real!
Right, it disappears in some instances -- like now.
Here is a GREAT GRAPH showing the stage of default we are experiencing.
I think the point is if you have a certain amount of dollars in the system, for example $100.00 then you lend it out with interest at say 10% then the borrower has to pay back $110.00. If there is only 100.00 in the system then how does he pay back 110.00? Multiply this by population growth, business growth, and some inflation then you are forced to increase the money supply or the economy contracts. I realize this is a simplification and there are some balancing effects in the system, but nowhere enough to stop the need for expansion of the money supply.
Putting our monetary system on a gold standard wouldn't fix this, it would only cause gold to go higher in value, but it would probably cause more responsible fiscal budgets and monetary policy. Having said that all throughout history gold has been a safe haven if things fall apart or deteriorate. It was used before fiat money and people all over the world value it. This is rooted in many cultures. As long as people have this view it will hold value. How can you explain since the financial meltdown the rise in gold prices even though it has been leveraged, diluted, and manipulated yet it still rises.
People who were adults during the 30's and 40's tend to have a much greater appreciation for gold than those who did not witness confiscation of gold in Europe and the US. If your wealth is only backed by promises of your government, good luck trying to take your wealth out of the country should your government turn against you.
"good luck trying to take your wealth out of the country"
You can use gold. As far as I know there is no limit to how many pounds of yellow rocks you can carry across borders. Only "monetary instruments", e.g. cash, are considered as dangerous contraband. Maybe they are afraid the cash is a biological hazard from being using as toilet paper.
You can get around this easily, just sew your gold into your pants and go through the metal detectors. Gold doesn't set them off.
Just try to refrain from shouting "GOLD BRITCHES" until after you have reached your destination, where owning gold is legal.
Even with a gold standard governments have been debasing hard currencies for centuries. What the real argument is about is the return to a private money system, free from a state monopoly. Debasing or 'clipping' coins is essentially the same thing as printing fiat.
Yes.
I am Chumbawamba.
+1
Baby steps?
The Romans did that, yes, but in modern times, with the wide availability of accurate scales, that hasn't been much of a problem for centuries (reeded edges, like that of the US quarter, prevent such slicing from going undetected).
For example, when I took in some old silver coins to sell, the buyer weighed them, and gave me credit according to the weight, rather than the number of coins (and certainly not what was written on them).
Precisely, this is exactly why governments should not be allowed to have the monopoly over money. Money is just another economic good and can, and does fail. People should be free to trade using whatever means they prefer. Surely under such a system gold would become the premier means of exchange, however I would imagine that there would be many other media of exchange which would surface.
How much of your net worth should you own in gold?
I have seen 1%, 10%, and 25%. Assuming they knock off 2 zeros of the currency, wouldn't that make 1% enough?
If you have gold, you'll have to hide it and won't be allowed to exchange it until after all the mess is over (think guard in bank/airport) so you'll haver to go through tough times same as everyone.
I would rather go through hard times with something to lose than nothing at all.
I don't understand your comment. Let's say the currency collapses and you own a farm. Let's say further that 10 of the townspeople come to you with, I don't know, let's use Morgan dollars. They're currently worth about $14 apiece, more or less. Let's say 10 other townspeople come to you with Bernanke greenbacks. Would you:
1. Tell them all to get lost, that you'd rather let your food rot than sell it to them?
2. Sell it to the person who gives you paper?
3. Sell it to the person who gives you a known quantity of gold or (in this case) silver?
What would you do? It's easy to get all hypothetical, but let's say the currency collapses and food distribution breaks down for a week or two. Who eats? The guy with PM or the guy with paper?
PS: Every farmer I know is armed to his eye teeth, for what it's worth so don't tell me you're just going to take his food. If you do, you don't know Texas farmers.
There is also a case for giving it away to create goodwill (we give all our extra food to the local foodbank). The power of goodwill should not be underestimated. John deere is still running on it. During the depression, Deere did not repossess tractors and deferred payments until after the depression. farmers still talk about that today...
Hulk - thanks for that bit of history- I run a lot of Green, but never heard that before. They still treat us well, but of course, there are less of us each year, so well they should.
http://www.igin.com/article-756-the-history-of-john-deere.html
"If the US were to monetize its existing gold reserves (at least if they do exist, unemcumbered), gold would have to increase to roughly $36,000 per ounce."
Easy enough to accomplish. For example, allow only gold and silver as legal tender per the Constitution Article 1 Section 10. Or even better, allow people to use whatever kind of money they choose. Then gold would be $infinity per ounce.
The only reason green toilet paper has any value at all is because it's forced on us by the US gov through legal tender laws and tax-related laws. For example, attempting to mint your own gold coins will result in your incarceration. In the USA you have the freedom to not be allowed to compete with green toilet paper.
no trolls today?
Just you
Took Howard this late in life to figure out there is no freedom without property rights?
Being forced to use money totally controlled by somebody else for every transaction that sustains you means none of your property is secure and neither is your life. It's the power to starve and destroy anyone at will.
Just for kicks for all you bullion holders...
http://www.the-privateer.com/1933-gold-confiscation.html
That should be interesting cause if you do hold bullion you are going to have to make it over the border w/ it making you a criminal before you can exchange it into the non-official rate and then when you come back in you are going to have to declare that you are coming back with more than $10k in currency equivalents or else be a criminal once again...
Looks like the boys in Washington have this thing pretty tied up if it actually gets really out of control.
yep.
<rolls eyes>
Sprott PHYS Fund is located in CAN, Oh and he has the serial numbers of your gold, seems like as safe place as any..I can see all kinds of things happening from there, very creative things I may add...
but why would I come back with it, VISA, its easier than money.
The Gold Confiscation Of April 5, 1933 From: President of the United States Franklin Delano Roosevelt
To: The United States Congress
Dated: 5 April, 1933
Presidential Executive Order 6102
Forbidding the Hoarding of Gold Coin, Gold Bullion and Gold Certificates By virtue of the authority vested in me by Section 5(b) of the Act of October 6, 1917, as amended by Section 2 of the Act of March 9, 1933, entitled
An Act to provide relief in the existing national emergency in banking, and for other purposes~',
in which amendatory Act Congress declared that a serious emergency exists,
I, Franklin D. Roosevelt, President of the United States of America, do declare that said national emergency still continues to exist and pursuant to said section to do hereby prohibit the hoarding gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates within the continental United States by individuals, partnerships, associations and corporations and hereby prescribe the following regulations for carrying out the purposes of the order:
Section 1. For the purpose of this regulation, the term 'hoarding" means the withdrawal and withholding of gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates from the recognized and customary channels of trade. The term "person" means any individual, partnership, association or corporation.
Section 2. All persons are hereby required to deliver on or before May 1, 1933, to a Federal Reserve bank or a branch or agency thereof or to any member bank of the Federal Reserve System all gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates now owned by them or coming into their ownership on or before April 28, 1933, except the following:
(a) Such amount of gold as may be required for legitimate and customary use in industry, profession or art within a reasonable time, including gold prior to refining and stocks of gold in reasonable amounts for the usual trade requirements of owners mining and refining such gold.
(b) Gold coin and gold certificates in an amount not exceeding in the aggregate $100.00 belonging to any one person; and gold coins having recognized special value to collectors of rare and unusual coins.
(c) Gold coin and bullion earmarked or held in trust for a recognized foreign government or foreign central bank or the Bank for International Settlements.
(d) Gold coin and bullion licensed for the other proper transactions (not involving hoarding) including gold coin and gold bullion imported for the re-export or held pending action on applications for export license.
Section 3. Until otherwise ordered any person becoming the owner of any gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates after April 28, 1933, shall within three days after receipt thereof, deliver the same in the manner prescribed in Section 2; unless such gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates are held for any of the purposes specified in paragraphs (a),(b) or (c) of Section 2; or unless such gold coin, gold bullion is held for purposes specified in paragraph (d) of Section 2 and the person holding it is, with respect to such gold coin or bullion, a licensee or applicant for license pending action thereon.
Section 4. Upon receipt of gold coin, gold bullion, or gold certificates delivered to it in accordance with Section 2 or 3, the Federal reserve bank or member bank will pay thereof an equivalent amount of any other form of coin or currency coined or issued under the laws of the Unites States.
Section 5. Member banks shall deliver alt gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates owned or received by them (other than as exempted under the provisions of Section 2) to the Federal reserve banks of there respective districts and receive credit or payment thereof.
Section 6. The Secretary of the Treasury, out of the sum made available to the President by Section 501 of the Act of March 9, 1933, will in all proper cases pay the reasonable costs of transportation of gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates delivered to a member bank or Federal reserve bank in accordance with Sections 2, 3, or 5 hereof, including the cost of insurance, protection, and such other incidental costs as may be necessary, upon production of satisfactory evidence of such costs. Voucher forms for this purpose may be procured from Federal reserve banks.
Section 7. In cases where the delivery of gold coin, gold bullion, or gold certificates by the owners thereof within the time set forth above will involve extraordinary hardship or difficulty, the Secretary of the Treasury may, in his discretion, extend the time within which such delivery must be made. Applications for such extensions must be made in writing under oath; addressed to the Secretary of the Treasury and filed with a Federal reserve bank. Each applications must state the date to which the extension is desired, the amount and location of the gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates in respect of which such application is made and the facts showing extension to be necessary to avoid extraordinary hardship or difficulty.
Section 8. The Secretary of the Treasury is hereby authorized and empowered to issue such further regulations as he may deem necessary to carry the purposes of this order and to issue licenses there under, through such officers or agencies as he may designate, including licenses permitting the Federal reserve banks and member banks of the Federal Reserve System, in return for an equivalent amount of other coin, currency or credit, to deliver, earmark or hold in trust gold coin or bullion to or for persons showing the need for same for any of the purposes specified in paragraphs (a), (c), and (d) of Section 2 of these regulations.
Section 9. Whoever willfully violates any provision of this Executive Order or these regulation or of any rule, regulation or license issued there under may be fined not more than $10,000, or,if a natural person may be imprisoned for not more than ten years or both; and any officer, director, or agent of any corporation who knowingly participates in any such violation may be punished by a like fine, imprisonment, or both.
This order and these regulations may be modified or revoked at any time.
/s/
Franklin D. Roosevelt
President of the United States of America
April 5, 1933
Anyone who comes for my gold, decree or not - will end up getting a bit of lead in their arse.
yeah - that'll stop 'em!! in fact they would cancel the whole project after that. Freedom for all instantly.
just one shot!
It's a start.
Grotesque...deliver to FEDERAL RESERVE banks.
It wasn't even a REAL confiscation. It was the government ORDERING you to hand over your private property to a fucking BANK that in those days had NO blurred line between a gov't institution and a private one...it was ALL PRIVATE then.
They would then tell the WHOLE WORLD that it is acually valuable, and there usd was shit..How would they get anyone at that point to BUY INTO ANOTHER FIAT TRAP?.. think they are going to admit defeat? Not a chance, gold would double from where ever it was at during that time..They would be looking like a fool with there pants on the ground..
Or perhaps they want to bring it back to bring a deflation to this country to the likes the world has never seen in order to cause the propaganda induced to rise up and destroy capitalism.
"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them, will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered." Thomas Jefferson, Letter 1802 to Secretary of the Treasury, Albert Gallatin
gold standard is bullshit.
PRODUCTION standard. Real Bills. That's what matters.
Gold is a real asset no different from wheat or coal in the sense that it can trade for other real assets
really Wheat? easier to control than paper money
A wheat standard would be ... interesting. Bank runs in the developed world would lead to starvation in the world's poorest countries. More directly than usual, that is. There are certain advantages to the fact that you can't eat gold.
or chicken wire?
"Gold is a real asset no different from wheat or coal in the sense that it can trade for other real assets"
True, in that limited sense.
But gold doesn't age, rot, get consumed by bugs and rats, or burn, or suffer damage from chemicals like wheat can. It lasts for thousands of years. Also, if there are different kinds of wheat then you have to be an expert in wheat to appraise them. Also, you can't grow bushels full of gold in your backward.
Thus gold is durable, regular, and scarce. Gold's good properties caused it to be, at certain times in history, the most easily tradable good, sought out only for its marketability. In other words, it was money. This happened historically due to the choices people make in the marketplace, not because of some government decree. (At other times in history, different goods were used as money, e.g. cattle.)
But you can't eat coal ...
Indexes red now.
Gold bitches.
so what are real bills backed by... more real bills .
gold is money much different than wheat or coal ///
maybe trav7777 is bullshit lol
Real bills are backed by labor and faith in the currency.
Gold is backed by faith in gold. There is no difference between gold and oil and other commodities or anything of value. All of it is only backed by people's faith in that value.
Of course, the faith in gold can decrease significantly as well. We saw this in the early 80s through the late 90s, when it lost 70% of its value.
The dollar buys things, and THAT is what backs the dollar. The fact that we all work for it is backing enough.
yes but as the real bills are printed into infinity ,, faith in this paper will diminish and is now doing so
i suspect that the people now in all currencies have more faith in gold than paper as gold now is rising in value
all these what ifs..
all paper currencies return to their intrinsic value ,, which is zero ,
gold will never do that it is backed by the cost of labor to extract in from the earth ,
and in the future will take its place as sound money backed by itself .. a trading real bills that works in all languages
recall you saying that gold would not get back above 1200 or you would eat a hat.. well start chomping
That's not fair, Dumpster. We can't hold an addle-brained child to his word. That's child abuse. On second thought -- abuse away. I'm going to go make some more popcorn. Johnny-boy is way over his head in it today. He's just not on his game.
The dollar buys things? Yeah, about 1/10th of what it originally did.
Try about 1/28th now, to be precise.
Ah yes, the old circular logic. Dollar buys stuff because it can BUY stuff, ya see? That's why it's good.
The dollar is not backed by anything tangible. It's backed by the full faith and credit of the US Treasury, which means it's backed by nothing. It's lost a ton of purchasing power over virtually any time frame you choose. It's crap, as are all fiat currencies.
Gold has a fairly steady production profile, it can't be created or destroyed in large quantities at whim, it doesn't degrade, etc. That's why it's "real" - because its supply profile is representative of the fact that wealth is what we can produce from natural resources, wealth is not dolla dolla bills (i.e. wealth is not something that can be created at whim).
By your logic, if the dollar is "real" because it "buys things", then why the hell don't we just print up a gajillion dollars and hand them out and solve poverty? According to you, faith in the dollar won't flag because it "buys stuff" so we should be able to just increase the supply massively and make everyone richer!
Wait, nevermind...
You lose.
Below is a youtube link to Part 1 of a 1976 Anthony Sutton Lecture. In Part 4, around 5:05, he calls for an audit of the Fed.
1976 was a lifetime ago....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XxgcORB4cA&feature=related
A lot of people didn't turn in their gold and got away with it. Treasure hunters know there are caches out there left by owners who died and trusted nobody to know where they were. Why would anyone respect a law that has no basis in bad behavior and victems but is just a legal farce for confiscating your property? The problem of law that is a cloak for theft is as old as humanity. The bible even makes note of law corrupted to make anyone a criminal.
Psalm94:20. Can wicked rulers be allied with thee, who frame mischief by statute? 21. They band together against the life of the righteous, and condemn the innocent ...
why stop with the bible ,, the Koran the bhagavata, all sacred writings from all around the world ,, all state the same thing.
myopic ,, the bible says lol
This system is one where those who have no "gift" or cannot be productive are able to access the productivity of those with good providence. Expropriation has been the age old sin. Envy, strife, and malice of those jealous of the material acquisitions of their peers. Cain murdered Abel for it--desired his wealth and preference before "the Man". Even more delicious it the ability to plunder secretly by incremental dilution. Add fractional banking, ability to issue checkbook money, and having monopoly power over money supply and credit aggregates and you have the most seductive fusion of money and power. None derived from the true fountain of abundance and prosperity.
Real wealth comes from the organic explosion of labour and innovation of the common men using available resources of the earth and sun. Banking and monetary slave runners are a bleak shadow of the former.
Fraud is the peaceable means to expropriate, uncomfortabl--yes. Causative of social rebellion, no. When it no longer works, players move farther afield or move to Force. Expropriation by war or physical strife, physical bondage and death.
Were these men who worship money to spend their energies creating productively, instead of feeding their idleness and making intrigues to deprive their neighbors, AND lend on sustainable, equitable terms--then we would have an economic model of longevity.
But where men lend in a systemically destabilizing, usurious way, or seek to obtain through any means except participation in honest labour and production, we will always have boom/bust and eventually war.
Fraud and Force. Stains of CAIN.
trav heres an adult thing to do
go two tan range gold web site
call the president of company he will answer sinclair here
tell him that a gold standard is bull shit ,, and you would drther carry around three dumptrucks full of coal , worth about 4 grand the going rate for coal ,
some how you and denninger have to much sloppy thinking to go around . back the real bills with a pound of fricking coal , lol
yeah and then Leo comes to power and Solar replaces Coal.. so your Coal in the Bank is no worthless..
Howard Buffett - wiser than all modern politicians put together.
gold now is not in the public mind,, is not backing fiat ,, the reason to take the gold was to expand the fiat,,
now its different ,, and a poor excuse not to buy gold ,
if the government banned gold ,, whilst the rest of the world was buying with its citizens ,, watch the price of gold explode higher
Buffet was not the only person to have diagnosed this problem early in the piece (relatively speaking).
Jacques Rueff later to be economic adviser to De Gaulle in the 1960's, penned this noteworthy piece in 1961, dealing with these exact issues, Monetary Sins Of The West. Must read material, probably worthy of it's own post here on ZH.
This quote, taken from a comment by FOFOA in the comments section of ????,
This quote by FOFOA is based in part on Rueff's analysis.
This Time article here is very interesting, with much relevance too.
Other very closely related and relevant material I recommend to all who have not read it would be It's time to end World War II by Hugo Salinas Price.
Thanks, dude. I saw this essay ~30 years ago and had forgotten it, though I remember Rueff as the guy who saw that US gold was a 'buy' at $35 per ounce and persuaded De Gaulle to cash in France's chips and back up the truck (actually, De Gaulle sent a warship).
I believe this is the right thread to bring up one of my favorites, Hugo Salinas Price. IMHO, all his writings, and videos, are well worth your time to review. This is an excellent piece he put together.
I think it worthy to include at the bottom two events that took place in 1971. The first was necessary before moving to the second....you can connect the dots and see how they tie together. There was zero concern for America/ns...and this hasn't changed.
http://www.plata.com.mx/PLATA/articulos/articlesFilt.asp?offset=10&fiidarticulo=114
I'm going to paste quite a bit of clips, but hope those with the time read it all:
GOLD: THE PROTECTOR AND CREATOR OF JOBS
by Hugo Salinas Price
President, Mexican Civic Association Pro Silver
February 6, 2009
US manufacturers, facing this competition from Asia, decided to move their factories to Asia instead of waiting for certain bankruptcy by competing against much lower-cost production.
That was how the US was de-industrialized.
It happened because gold was eliminated as a limit on credit expansion and money creation.
Had Nixon not gone off gold in 1971, China would have taken generations to create its industrial base. It would have been necessary for China to accumulate capital slowly, because its exports to the US would have been limited by the need for the US to pay up with gold for the amount by which Chinese exports exceeded its imports from the US.
The Chinese would have had to buy as much from the US, as they sold to the US; and since they were so terribly poor, there was not much they could have bought from the US.
Their growth would have been slower, but they would not now be facing over 20 million unemployed, as their markets dry up.
The US would never have allowed China to drain US gold from the Treasury by selling more to the US, than the US sold to China. But since payment was in fiat dollars and not in gold, the destructive effect of huge Chinese imports was not considered important by policy makers. And so, the US sailed into unemployment and had a great time doing it. Only now, that the party is over, are the grim facts visible: no jobs! Manufacturing is decimated.
The fiat dollar – unanchored to gold – was the greatest strategic gift that the US could have made to China. Now, they have a huge industrial base and the US has Oh, so little!
The damage is done. How to recover the industrial base of the US ? Not by slogans such as “ Buy American ”, nor by protectionism.
What is required is to recover economic balance between the nations of the world so that they all can balance their exports with their imports. This is not done by protectionism, a false remedy to joblessness.
The world needs to return to gold as the international means of payment. All imbalances must be paid, monthly, in gold. No fiat money “payment” allowed!
If a nation does not have gold to export, it must do without or manufacture what it needs, itself: there you have the clue to restoring jobs in the US and in Europe. This is not “nationalism”, it is simply good economics.
======================================= end ====
I think it worthy to include at the bottom two events that took place in 1971. The first was necessary to enable the second. You can connect the dots
In July 1971 Kissinger made a Secret trip to China, yes even Wiki mentions this, and one month later Nixon closed the Gold Window...
This is the most compelling case I've seen for gold standards so far. I can actually respect this.
However, there is no difference between gold and any other valuable commodity. Trade is only backed by the faith in the instruments of trade.
They could have traded glass beads, oil, or lucky charms. If lucky charms bought labor and resources, it would have served the same purpose as gold.
You cannot have infinite international growth backed by a finite resource. Without gold backing the currency, the world economy can actually grow.
With a finite resource backing labor and trade, labor and trade will be finite, which doesn't suit the world's needs.
the point being that glass beads and lucky charms would not work but gold did ,
if lucky charms bought labor lol
if whishes were fishes
"You cannot have infinite international growth backed by a finite resource. Without gold backing the currency, the world economy can actually grow."
Uh, beg to massively disagree. Just raise the price of the finite resource (because of credit demand) and the so called problem of growth is solved.....
No, no, there aren't enough atoms.
But seriously, just ignore this clown. It's just his brain tumor talking.
Bingo! And the value of ones savings is carried forward. Keep reading JB.
JB, I may have missed it along the way, but you have never told us what is wrong with someone holding 5% - 10% of their wealth in gold.
I would be interested in your view on this.
You know, every time you clueless and arrogant defenders of the Keynesian fiat status-quo make this claim, you proclaim your sociopathic judgement to be superior to that of billions of people who have conclusively decided otherwise through the free market over thousands of years of history.
It is no coincidence that the sychophantic and desparate defenders of statism always attack and malign gold. Always --- because it is incompatible with their insatiable lust for total power and control over humanity.
"Because gold is honest money, it is disliked by dishonest men."
(and also by disingenuous trolls.)
Warren Buffet's father sounds just like a young Greenspan. It reminds me of the key takeaway from "The Law" written from someone that witnessed the French Revolution - The whole purpose of the law should be to protect property and prevent plunder.
In addition to gold, the dictators mentioned also confiscated guns. Understand that it matters not what a government calls itself (democratic, republic, socialist, communist, corporatist, fascist), that a tyranical government is about more central control. Power and influence are relative so the more powerful a central government, the less powerful the states and individuals. Most people falsely identify historical struggles as being about money, but typically they have been about power. Struggles in history are often over power to access resources.
Most wars in history have been over resources, and that has both a supply and a demand angle. Population control is a tool being used to reduce demand while there is currently a global hustle for securing resource supplies. Now do you understand why individuals that are extremely wealthy are so concerned about population control? One selfish instinct is to wish for less individuals on earth to fight over access to resources. At the same time, there might be a higher quality of life for those lucky individuals that are granted life since you get to split the spoils over less of humanity.
The problem with our current system is that people don't realize that in a paper system there is a denominator under the $ value for your money impacting buying power. The more they print (outside of population growth and production increases), the greater the denominator and therefore the lower purchasing power of paper. Because the social contract is to agree to exchange your time (the most valuable commodity you have) for labor based upon a fixed value, inflation can steal the fruit of your labor.
Right now, economic policy wonks believe people just aren't spending enough so it is the consumers fault for a failing economy as consumers are blamed. The real reason is that people have a crisis of confidence in leadership based on poor polling numbers and we are witnessing a collapse in confidence that impacts the economy and markets.
These economists have large IQ's but extremely low EQ's (emotional quotients). Like love, not everything can be evaluated emperically through equations. What they are missing is that our entire system is collapsing because of a crisis of confidence. The controlled media is attempting to control the message and pretend that the bad actors (folks like GS) may have done something unethical but not illegal. They are ignoring the story that gold is telling.
It is VERY EASY to right this ship as confidence is collapsing. Perp walks. Real financial reform not written by the industries that are supposed to be regulated. Insider trading by representatives outlawed (not two systems) as studies recently have shown market outperformance by 12% by individuals in Congress. This feels like derivatives, where they are supposed to react to the underlying - in the same fashion our representatives have become oversized derivatives and instead of representing the underlying (the people's interests) they are making the people serve them and their masters. The corruption is transparent while they think they can confuse the populace with sound bites.
Martin Armstrong quotes Thrasymachus at the end of his recent paper (you can get it on economicedge.blogspot.com), outlining the “just” are losers to the “unjust” - “My meaning will be most clearly seen if we turn that highest form of injustice in which the criminal is the happiest of men, and the sufferers or those who refuse to do injustice are the most miserable – that is to say tyranny, which by fraud and force takes away the property of others…”
Mankind has a choice, freedom or tyranny. All human rights flow from individual property rights including your own body. Also remember that a government large enough to give you everything you want is also big enough to take it from you.
I see a spectrum between freedom and tyranny. On one hand is precious metals where individuals have individual property rights and ownership of an asset that is solely their own without 15 pages of legal terms and conditions. On the other hand I see clearly an RFID chip that is waiting in the wings for another event where declaring martial law could be justified. The chip will have your medical records and financial records / transactions and they want it to be backed eventually by carbon credits - not gold.
As there is a collapse in confidence and with increasing taxes, black markets and an underground economy could form. Tax collections could decrease under this scenario, and therefore a cashless society (RFID chip) would enable every transaction to be tracked and taxed. With the EPA declaring that carbon is a pollutant, instantly every human being and animal is now declared a pollutant - this is a huge policy that could have diabolical implications. Alternative energy is fine, I am concerned with the population control angle on this.
Right now most pets are chipped, members of the Mexican government are chipped to access secure rooms, Israel has a big chipping drive on in their country, and individuals that believe chipping provides security for tracking abductions have voluntarily been chipped. The problem with chipping is that it causes inflammation in human tissues which can lead to cancerous tumors (and has). It is also like looking at populations as an animal husbandry exercise - cattle.
Wisconsin is the only state I know of that has passed a law banning the involuntary chipping of human beings. Our current Vice President told John G. Roberts at his confirmation hearing:
"Can a microscopic tag be implanted in a person’s body to track his every movement? There’s actual discussion about that.
You will rule on that — mark my words — before your tenure is over.
Can brain scans be used to determine whether a person’s inclined toward criminality or violent behavior?
You will rule on that."
Jamming RFID chips will be used to thwart the "Brave New World" tyranists.
Thank you, A.N. Always such substance to your comments.
Perspective makes all the difference.
Let's not talk about the gold standard. Let's talk about fractional reserves and compound interest and usery. Let's talk about how those have been abused throughout all of history. Until you are going to talk about the whole problem shut the hell up. Let's talk about the ENTIRE SCAM or not at all.
Usury should be illegal, except towards foreign entities. But then you can't scam people if we are on a gold standard (at least not nearly as easily). One is linked to the other....
>Let's talk about fractional reserves
Depositing in a fractional reserve bank is basically gambling. You are hoping to get your money out of the Ponzi scheme early before your money is lost. It's ridiculous for the US government to provide insurance policies backing up these scams. Apart from commiting bailment fraud, fractional reserve bankers also inflate the money supply. I guess if cashier's checks stated that they were gambling tokens rather than promising certain amounts of money, then it wouldn't be criminal fraud any more.
>compound interest and usery. Let's talk about how those have been abused throughout all of history.
Please elaborate on this. How is it abuse for two people to agree to exchange lonable funds for a certain amount of interest? When two people voluntarily enter a contract, who is being abused? Who is the victim?
The people who control the currency are the abuser. It's a game. What does a house cost. It costs the highest bidder. It only works as long as there is growth and as long as builders continue to move away from building lasting structrues towards cracker boxes. People need a place to live. The places to live don't last forever but they generally should outlast one person controlling that resource for their entire life. As long as you bring the future into the equation you get a distortion of value of everything because you not only allow but seem to DEMAND a money changer get inbetween every transaction. That they loan to one party and make the other party whole instantly in exchange for force power or good will to indebt the other party. If I loan you 5000 bucks and you repay ME 5100 bucks it's no big deal to the money system. But you set up these clearing house type transactions for everything and 50,000 houses become 100,000 houses by the time the mortgage is paid. Then the seller wants 70,000 dollars to close the valuation gap somewhat which leaves the next guy with a 140,000 dollar house. It's a treadmill. A ponzi and it can not and will not last. It has to crash, does crash, always will crash. The clearing houses get leveraged higher and higher every time. The people they transact with get either richer and richer or poorer and poorer. But that's only because the system doesn't work when it uses real live saved or transacted money. Which is why the banks created counterfeiting. They make people whole in the transactions without it coming from any counterparty. They no longer create a debt on the individual scale. They simply cast the debt out into the ENTIRE ocean of people using that money system and the valuation distortion that occurs from charging interest on huge loans gets put on everbody's backs.
But when Mr. McMansion holder makes a mortgage payment. He doesn't pay everybody who is thier counterparty. He pays only the bank. It's the perfect scam. All the upside none of the repsonsibility. It's a simple transfer of wealth with the banks being made more than whole for a while until it all falls apart and they should take a hit and start pumping assets out into the community at who ever has cash to buy prices. But they don't they simply hold on to them and try to make their unpaid counterparty risk bag holders do more and more for a master that takes but gives nothing. It turns money into permission slips to give a crap about what an asshole wants or needs but coldly and callously ignore the needs of those who don't end up with any permission slips.
Roman society was a gold society. It survived on digging tons of the stuff out of the Italian mountainsides. It only took about 40 years of rampant usery and interest to be introduced into the society to not only soak up the diminishing gold coming out of the mountainside but to soak up all the wealth of the empire. All roman coins at the end of the empire were cut down to 1/2 or 1/4 of thier original size as the interest and usery cut into base asset of exchange.
The entire scam? The scam is supported primarily by the Federal Reserve. The scam is perpetuated by arbitrary fiat paper. The reason the central bank was created, was to get the country off the gold standard, which stood in the way of government debt expansion. The fractional reserve banks convinced the government (pretty much by a fait accompli) that central bank fiat was the way to solve their problems. The banks (despite fractional reserve) were up against the limits imposed by the gold standard, as was the government. A mutually beneficial arrangement.
Must be orgasmic to get away with such a diarrhea of drivel.
Well, I suppose in the end that under a gold standard, all will boil down to the definition of "human".
Gold bubble? You decide.
A nice graphic to help in your decision.
If it's in a bubble there is some way to go yet.
Alan Greenspan made a similar commentary back in the mid 1960s, approx. 30 years prior the time when he became the FED chairman.
I did a quick scan of the above comments, but surprisingly I didn't see any reference to Greenspan's famous essay entitled "Gold and Economic Freedom." For those interested, go here:
http://www.financialsense.com/metals/greenspan1966.html
Interestingly, once Greenspan became FED chair, he was forced by the Power Elite to abandon his own advice; I suspect that 100 years from now, history will not be kind to him (nor to Bernanke, either).
He wasn't forced. He got his 20 pieces of silver.
Hey,
I asked this in the forum but i guess no one uses that...
What's the point in investing in Gold if its a store of value and nothing else? Doesn't that imply you will get a real return of 0%?
Alternatively if Gold is undervalued right now, what is the true price of gold? And how did you arrive at that number?
Trying to be a devil's advocate and learn!
"What's the point in investing in Gold if its a store of value and nothing else? Doesn't that imply you will get a real return of 0%?"
It all depends how you calculate return. Measured in ounces of gold, an ounce of gold will always be an ounce and you have 0% return, just like a share in GS will remain one share in GS and you have 0% return measured in that way.
Measured in Federal Reserve Notes, an ounce of gold has had 5000% return since 1913. Measured against DJIA, I think gold still has a positive return.
If you measure gold in dollars, then since 1913, it's been a great investment. But some people like to hold gold (or even cash reserves) just for the safe feeling it gives them.
"Alternatively if Gold is undervalued right now, what is the true price of gold?"
The only scientifically meaningful price is the market clearing price, i.e. its objective exchange value. Anything else is subjective speculation. But if fiat currencies are ejected from the sphere of commerce, and gold is used as a medium of exhcange instead, then its price relative to paper currencies will increase infinitely.
I agree it depends on what you measure it against, but if you bought a share of say Google when it IPOd, It buys a lot more than it did then. Even after you include inflation effects and USD depreciating.
However if you buy Gold, you will be able to buy the same stuff you have now so you preserve capital, but you definitely don't see capital appreciation unless Gold becomes overvalued. So going back to it, is there a point in getting a Real return of 0%? Would I not do better looking for company's that can outperform the USD depreciation?
Is the market clearing price meaningful? For all we know it has been speculated to an overvalued number just as the Dow hit 14000+ in 2008.
"So going back to it, is there a point in getting a Real return of 0%?"
Safety. Tell me, measured in dollars, do you not have anything that returns 0%, i.e. do you not have a cash holding of some size? Even a few dollars in your wallet? Or do you invest every penny in derivatives?
"Is the market clearing price meaningful?"
It's simply an economic datum. But I speculate that physical gold would have a much higher clearing prices if the fractional-reserve, fraudulent nature of ETF's were to be revealed and if central banks ceased intervening to lower gold's price. Also, if a lot more bars turn out to be tungsten fakes, I think genuine gold will go way up.
"For all we know it has been speculated to an overvalued number just as the Dow hit 14000+ in 2008."
I think Dow is overvalued now. Gold - I have no idea. But I feel its safer to hold than green pieces of paper fresh off a printing press.
Whenever you have an economic slowdown, you get price deflation in terms of gold. Buying gold while everyone is cheery and optimistic means that you get it when it is cheap. You can then sell (or spend) that gold during the depression and find that your purchasing power is much higher than it would have been had you simply held onto federal reserve notes, or invested in stocks, bonds, or other investment vehicles.
Dr. Acula and others provided insight into what you've called the "true" price of gold.
But I sense that you were probably looking for a "slightly analytical" response to your question. OK, here goes.
Planned Dollar Devaluation Ahead:
The US Gov't, led by the FED, plans to devalue the USD by 50% between now and 2015; then in the ensuing 5 year period (between 2015 - 2020), they plan to further devalue the USD by another 50%. In other words, in the year 2020, ONE USD will be worth only 25% of what it will buy today, in terms of goods. This is the plan that the US Gov't HAS to follow, since the total US debt obligations are astronomical and can never be paid off (except via inflation and devaluation of the currency). So anyone who is holding a 10 year US Treasury bond to "maturity" will, in effect get back only 25% of what it is worth today.
So given that scenario, and since gold "always tells the truth" in financial transactions, we can expect that the gold price will be at least four times what it is selling for today ($1200 x 4 = $4800). You've probably heard estimates of $5,000 before, but without any explanation. I've attempted to provide at least one explanation, and I've never seen this explanation in print before.
Summary:
One thing is clear to me regarding investments over the next 10 year period. IMO, physical gold will remain a good investment (i.e. with a very healthy capital appreciation rate each year) for a number of years, and for a variety of good reasons... not the least of which is the continuing global loss of confidence in fiat currencies.
Absolutely required reading. Amazing foresight.
Head and shoulders on the PM charts today. I am looking for them to gun some poor paper down!
Just read all these comments. I think Im officially brain drained. Not sure I am any more informed on anything. I see lots of perspectives and opinions.
Can anyone bring clarity to this thread?
Here to learn is all... but only finding more confusion lately. I get plenty of that from CNBC and the likes.
Well, if you know a Good Jeweler, that can fabricate some damn nice baubles, I see no other way out.............
Unless your planning on Civil Disobedience, to keep from being raped of your wealth.
I would not give this admin one dime, that was not forced out of my hands,period.
IF they had been wonderful Stewards of the Nations /Peoples treasure, maybe..............now.
Up YOURS.
<i>If you measure gold in dollars, then since 1913, it's been a great investment. But some people like to hold gold (or even cash reserves) just for the safe feeling it gives them.</I>
The dollar has devalued 95% + since then but people seem better off than in the 1910s.
If the dollar has devalued so much why does everything "seem" just as normal?
That's what a non gold investor normally asks.
When everything is reset, it will just be reset to normal.
I suppose the answer is they will print to infinity beforehand but then we'll be devalued 99.99%. No biggy.
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