• Steve H. Hanke
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Huge Discrepancy In Radiation Readings In Fukushima Between Official (Semi) Disclosure And Japan Atomic Energy Agency

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Thu, 03/17/2011 - 08:26 | 1065976 Tense INDIAN
Tense INDIAN's picture

Man should always stay in his limits ....these event should remind everyone this now

Thu, 03/17/2011 - 08:31 | 1065987 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Luckely we'll soon solve it with the black hole machine creating device in geneva which will solve all our energy needs!!

 

BLACK HOLES ARE NOT DANGEROUS!!

 

NOW GET ME THE FUCK OF THIS PLANET ASAP!!

Thu, 03/17/2011 - 08:38 | 1066016 PY-129-20
PY-129-20's picture

Well, rumour has it that there is another black hole beneath the FED building...

Thu, 03/17/2011 - 08:43 | 1066032 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

No, that's the bottomless deficit pit...

 

 

Thu, 03/17/2011 - 10:33 | 1066478 pragmatic hobo
pragmatic hobo's picture

but it's a hole and it's black.

Thu, 03/17/2011 - 08:34 | 1066000 alpha60
alpha60's picture

tense indian should have said that in smoke signals.

Thu, 03/17/2011 - 08:39 | 1066014 malikai
malikai's picture

If man always stayed within his limits, we would still be grunting in caves and smashing women's heads to find mates.

It is the sheer fact that we have always pushed our limits that we enjoy the sort of lives we now live.

The problem here is simple: irresponsible design criteria and failure to do a proper risk assessment in those power stations. Really, who the hell would look at the design of that facility and think its a good idea to put the only backup power source in the basement of a tsunami risk location?

Thu, 03/17/2011 - 08:58 | 1066079 Going Loco
Going Loco's picture

...and store the spent fuel rods in a tank on top of the reactor with no gravity feed to replenish the water.....

Thu, 03/17/2011 - 09:29 | 1066224 ibjamming
ibjamming's picture

We may be back to just that...living in caves and smashing women's heads in to find mates...  You never know what the future will bring...

Thu, 03/17/2011 - 10:00 | 1066345 tonyw
tonyw's picture

The 9.0 quake was offshore but would IMHO probably have been less at Fukushima, so maybe even within the 8.2 limit?
I have read that the electrical switchgear was in the basement, so not a good location for equipment anywhere there can be lots of water.
Building close together not good, but often done (e.g. see Buncefield oil storage depot) so damage from first impacts others.
The power station is cut into "cliffs" some 30m high, so it does not seem impossible to have situated the backup diesel generating equipment on top of these cliffs together with lots of water.

Thu, 03/17/2011 - 10:40 | 1066507 malikai
malikai's picture

Buncefiled is a great example of a failed risk assesment. Another one that comes to mind on similar lines is the 1947 Texas City disaster. Loading ANFO at a port with a refinery next door seems foolhardy to me, yet it still happens all the time to this day.

I'm an engineer in the IT world, specializing in information security. There's a reason why most serious datacenters are located in the mid floors of highrise buildings. The reasons are simple: 1. Flood risk. 2. Wind/Tornado risk (since 9/11 airplane risk). If we can postulate the possibility of these extremely rare events (#2) and address them, it seems foolish to think that a nuclear power plant, where the risk is evident, the loss is far greater, and the mitigation steps are comparatively cheap, that they should fail to take actions to mitigate. I'm really dumbfounded about it.

Thu, 03/17/2011 - 11:31 | 1066727 sushi
sushi's picture

 

The facilites are 40 years old. Given the lead time on the engineering of this type of project, the initial design decisions were being made 5 years earlier or circa 1965.

The world was a lot less sophisticated in 1965. Cars had steel dashboards and no seatbelts and being impaled on the steering column was an accepted hazard. Everybody smoked including doctors and teachers. Leading states were busy setting off atmospheric nuclear test each larger and dirtier than the rest and if you were in grade school you were taught that the secret to survival was to cower beneath your desk.

Find a magazine from that period and you will see a world in love with things nuclear. It would produce power too cheap to meter, defend everybody, correct every possible social defect. Products were designed to look "atomic" in some way and the nuclear symbol popped up everywhere. It was totally cool.

Fifty years from now folks will look back on the current generation and fail to understand how they could so blindly poision the planet, so easily pave and destroy prime agricultural land and attempt to build a civilization based on non-renewable energy sources.

 

Thu, 03/17/2011 - 14:01 | 1067375 jmc8888
jmc8888's picture

Fusion is the only real answer.

We cannot be afraid of our shadow though.  Man's place is to achieve, not to stay within his 'limits'.

Our energy needs will only grow massively in 50 years.  That is not achievable with any of today's boondoggles known as 'renewable energy'.  NONE OF THEM will work. Only fusion.

Good thing we don't have a nuclear power plant placed in the worst possible spot to go haywire to throw us off of using nuclear energy until fusion. Oh wait, that is.  We cannot be afraid of our shadow.  But we cannot ignore the facts as well.

We must build these reactors FEDERALLY.  (notice all the...oh they covered up this or that...because of the MONEY involved)

Nuclear power plants must be FEDERALLY funded.  So if they find a fault underneath, the GOV'T takes the hit, and thus people won't have to lie for due to the profit motive. 

No more nuclear power plants in INSANE areas...and ONLY until we get fusion going.  So if you want our only option NUCLEAR to fade away, start demanding a manhattan project for fusion. 

Now more than ever it should be obvious, that fusion is our only way out. SO fund it.  It's not just going to happen on its own.  You have to have an economic system (hint: not monetarism) that will allow the uttering of credit (not through loans from banks and federal reserve) for what is actually NEEDED...like a fusion program.  Nuclear power plants. 

There isn't a lack of money, just a lack of will.  There will always be money for what is needed, if the right people are in power. 

We must not chince on design.  We must not let money be the factor.  Because when the gov't can utter it, it NEVER would be a legitimate factor.

Set it up, so that future diasters aren't sown in because of the fear of not being able to pay off loans.  Again the banksters will fuck us that way if we let them.

We need power.  Or we die.  We deserve to live.  We can do things smartly, if our priorities are correct.  When safety trumps cost, there shouldn't be problems.  As for a nuclear reactor in tsunami conuntry, or along a big fault, close it down.  Only geologically safe locations, shielded from emp's, inspected well (costs money you know), etc.

It's not hard, but the first is to recognize that is our wonderful monetary system that makes us choose between keeping an unsafe plant open in order to pay off debt, or to close it down and let the funders eat the cost. (which again should be the federal gov't)

Once again, debt concerns, needlessly fuck us over.  We don't make any deicisons today, unless they are decisions about DEBT.  Whenever the world runs around and makes every decision based on debt, it's no wonder that everything is failing around us.  Because it isn't what we're focused on, debt.  We're producing a lot of that, but nothing else.

Nuclear until fusion.  It's STILL the only way. 

 

 

Thu, 03/17/2011 - 09:05 | 1066106 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Feel free to crawl back into your mother's womb, then.

This isn't about man and his "limits", it is about corruption and government control run amok to the point that we are forced to rely on 40 year old reactors exclusively.  Might as well ban all car production because Cuba has unsafe ones on the road.

Thu, 03/17/2011 - 10:56 | 1066559 DoctoRx
DoctoRx's picture

TMosley:  But you would agree that if there were unsafe cars on the road, they should be banned from public thoroughfares?

The analogy is the continued extension of the old nuke plants beyond end of life.

Furthermore, the failure of Tokyo Electric Power Company to have multiple redundant supplies of power to a nuke power complex leaves most of us with no confidence that no matter how "safe" the design, something can go wrong with nuke power.  Most simply, it holds a country/region hostage in a war/terrorism setting.  How deep the corruption in business?  See, financial meltdown, 2008 for your answer.

Thu, 03/17/2011 - 13:49 | 1067323 tmosley
tmosley's picture

That's not what they are doing.  They are banning production of NEW cars/reactors.  

This reactor design is more than 40 years old, and was questioned from the start.  There are reactor designs out there RIGHT NOW that are literally meltdown proof-no electricity, water, or moving parts required.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pebble_bed_reactor

Imposing more regulation is NOT going to help, because regulations only stop new, safer designs from getting into production.  That is why we haven't built a single new reactor in the US in 35 years.

If you ban the unsafe cars from Cuban roads, then they wouldn't have any cars!  Same here, given that the government regulations blocking production of new SAFE nuke plants have the same effect as the embargo on Cuba.  They just have to patch and pray that what we have doesn't go.

Thu, 03/17/2011 - 08:28 | 1065979 hugovanderbubble
hugovanderbubble's picture

The market wont tank till OPEX,,,,get long with both hands

Thu, 03/17/2011 - 08:42 | 1065982 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Japan is changing it's national flag:

http://www.halcyon.com/donace/PIRATE05AM.JPG

 

They are also going to change the name of their island but there isn't a concensius yet about the new name.

 

The vote goes between:

 

1. Death Mans Island

2. The Land of NO Return

 

And there is also a contest for artists to make a new anthem. The anthem must include:

 

1. We are yellow, are you to? Fuck U2!

2. Radiate till you drop

3. A Flipper a day makes good eating

 

 

Thu, 03/17/2011 - 08:56 | 1066067 RusticSpaceboy
RusticSpaceboy's picture

NEWSFLASH: You're not funny.

Thu, 03/17/2011 - 08:57 | 1066080 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

in the past... I would have voted you OFF the Island for a remark like that!

 

NOW I VOTE YOU TO THE ISLAND FOR THAT REMARK!!

 

Thu, 03/17/2011 - 11:05 | 1066602 hardcleareye
hardcleareye's picture

SD, I think this is getting to you...  your posting are getting a tad "off color", maybe it's time to walk away from the computer and get a brew?  (or maybe you already have!)

Thu, 03/17/2011 - 09:00 | 1066087 prophet
prophet's picture

Land of the Melting Sun?

Thu, 03/17/2011 - 09:07 | 1066119 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

hmm... it would cut down the costs of reprinting all the national flags...

THE RAYS ARE ALREADY IN PLACE!

http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/273127/273127,1230524047,2/stock-vector-mt-fuji-and-japanese-flag-in-vector-art-22537492.jpg

Thu, 03/17/2011 - 09:11 | 1066133 prophet
prophet's picture

I'm exploring applying for a Krispy Kreme franchise near Fukushima Daiichi.

Thu, 03/17/2011 - 09:09 | 1066125 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Here's a free bumper sticker for your contribution:

http://rlv.zcache.com/melting_sun_sticker-p217624240283639394qjcl_400.jpg

Thu, 03/17/2011 - 08:29 | 1065986 NOTW777
NOTW777's picture

theres radiation from geithner as well - one world currency

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/5050407/US-backing-for-worl...

Thu, 03/17/2011 - 08:31 | 1065989 Josh Randall
Josh Randall's picture

Baghdad Bob had an Atomic Baby - can dead people sue for Libel ?

Thu, 03/17/2011 - 08:32 | 1065993 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

I don't know...

 

BUT IN THE US THEY CAN VOTE!!

 

Thu, 03/17/2011 - 08:31 | 1065990 AladdinSaneGirl
AladdinSaneGirl's picture

In a coastal area, might not the prevailing winds be from the ocean side, especially if there was turbulence over the ocean due to the tsunami. Just a thought, i don't really know anything about it.

At least it has to be good that Tokyo may not be as badly affected .. if ur figures are right!

Thu, 03/17/2011 - 08:49 | 1066045 malikai
malikai's picture

I believe what you are referring to is sea breeze. This is the effect caused by relatively cool (high pressure) air traveling towards a relatively warm (low pressure) area. I'm not sure if that is occurring, but that effect, particularly at night and in the early morning is responsible for advection fog, which can best be seen in places like San Francisco. This could explain why there would be more radiation showing up towards the west, despite the prevailing winds. Also, mountain wave, which is the effect mountains have on downwind patterns may also play a role, as its affect in this instance would be to create pockets of stationary air underneath the wave patterns.

To me, explaining how radiation is showing up in the west is no big deal, its explaining how radiation is NOT showing up in the southeast that bothers me, particularly when I've been checking METARS and seeing surface winds heading directly along the coast towards Tokyo.

Thu, 03/17/2011 - 08:55 | 1066068 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

Exactly as you surmise, I did a little research a couple of days ago...

http://space.hsv.usra.edu/CLRC/papers/Tsunematsu.pdf

 

"In the Kanto Plain, a steady sea breeze originating from the Pacific coast frequently prevails under the cloudless weak synoptic wind condition. This sea breeze is called the extended sea breeze because its horizontal scale exceeds 100 km (Kondo, 1990). The extended sea breeze can transport atmospheric pollutants to the inland area (Kurita et al., 1990). The sea breeze is, therefore, familiar to people living in the Kanto Plain including the Tokyo metropolitan area."

So if there is no strong front prevailing, as has been the case the last few days, generally there will be an onshore sea breeze especially in the daytime.  More so as summer comes (warmer ground).

Thu, 03/17/2011 - 13:14 | 1067178 AladdinSaneGirl
AladdinSaneGirl's picture

Well yes, sea breeze, but made stronger by the turbulence due to the tsunami. Maybe there's an east-west loop in the air currents that's shunting stuff away from the southeast. Guess the news tonight will have more info.

Thu, 03/17/2011 - 08:31 | 1065991 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

I've been waiting for this to be reported, and sadly, I am not surprised.

I was hinting as to this yesterday because there were very odd variations being reported given relatively small geographical intervals, and then, of course, there were the infamous "under survey" areas that have become a bad joke and emblematic of the loss of credibility of Japan's Government (which seemingly can't or won't tell its citizens the truth).

Thu, 03/17/2011 - 08:46 | 1066031 justbuygold
justbuygold's picture

Yes. The Japanese can now be seen as pathological liers . Their honor seems more important than their people .  If this is the case then how can we believe any of the Japanese people when doing business dealings with them and when things go wrong.  The govt represents the image of its people.  They need to learn that " the truth will set you free"  .  " Do whats right. not whats easy " !

Thu, 03/17/2011 - 08:57 | 1066071 midlevex@gmail.com
midlevex@gmail.com's picture

Let's see, that would just about put them on a level field with the klelptocracy and the MSM here in the  Land of the free... etc., etc.

Thu, 03/17/2011 - 09:03 | 1066105 The Profit Prophet
The Profit Prophet's picture

Spot on!  The Japenese government should have behaved more like the US government during the BP oil spill.....all truth, all the time! 

Thu, 03/17/2011 - 09:12 | 1066139 justbuygold
justbuygold's picture

Good point.  U.S. govt and corporations, especially the banks and Wall Street are so much worse.  The only ones left to trust are the Canadians these days.

Thu, 03/17/2011 - 09:22 | 1066198 aerojet
aerojet's picture

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I have worked with plenty of Japanese and I never found them to be anything but annoying when it comes to business dealings--they can be very cutthroat.  Business is business no matter where you go.  The nice thing is that it doesn't take bribes to get things done, they're fairly orderly in that regard, the same way the US is.

Thu, 03/17/2011 - 08:32 | 1065992 steve from virginia
steve from virginia's picture

It appears the Japanese establishment, like the US and EU establishments, is absolutely clueless. Nobody seems to know what to do or how to organize.

Now that the TVs are not working the people are milling around in circles, bumping into things and making strange noises.

The bosses need to fly over w/ helicopters carrying large TV screens with the 'brackets' ... whatever the fuck those are.

Thu, 03/17/2011 - 08:33 | 1066004 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

They are clueless as long as they need to get the rich people into safety.

Once the neon lights start to turn themselves on without electricity, we'll get the "You see, we told ya so" message.

 

Thu, 03/17/2011 - 08:34 | 1066007 cossack55
cossack55's picture

 No need for TVs. Just put more flouride in their water, especially that cheap Chinese shit the the US likes to use. 

Thu, 03/17/2011 - 08:34 | 1066001 Silverhog
Silverhog's picture

I hope someone on the west coast of the US could post a streaming Geiger Counter such as the one in Tokyo. That would be better than taking the gubermints readings.

Thu, 03/17/2011 - 08:49 | 1066041 Stormdancer
Stormdancer's picture

http://www.radiationnetwork.com/

 

Readings in excess of 130 cpm indicate levels higher than can be attributed to normal background radiation in any circumstance.  Background levels tend to be much lower than that in most areas...but 130 cpm triggers alerts that something unusual is going on.

 

Edit:  Anyone that has a giggle counter up and running might want to consider joining the network.

Thu, 03/17/2011 - 09:29 | 1066216 Drag Racer
Thu, 03/17/2011 - 09:14 | 1066156 ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

Here's another one:

http://www.blackcatsystems.com/RadMap/map.html

Unfortunately, the number of active monitors at both of these sites is too few to be comprehensive. 

Here's one for Japan:

http://www.targetmap.com/viewer.aspx?reportId=4870

When searching for such sites I also found this:

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1393257/pg1

This is "man on the street" readings from different areas in U.S..  BUT after looking at the site a bit, the Moonbats on there make me look like a government shill.  I don't even think George Washington would stick around there too long.  Take it for what you will.

Thu, 03/17/2011 - 08:33 | 1066002 max2205
max2205's picture

Smile Fest on CNBS jobs CPI and some other shit

Thu, 03/17/2011 - 08:36 | 1066010 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Is CNBS displaying a BS Meter in the foreground?

Thu, 03/17/2011 - 08:37 | 1066015 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

No, it's a average spectator IQ registration device.

 

 

Thu, 03/17/2011 - 08:44 | 1066033 LRC Fan
LRC Fan's picture

Liesman asking the guest and everyone else what religion they were made me laugh.  Are you a CPI or a core?  Huh?  There's no inflation here!  The Fed says so and the Dow is up up up baby!  QE2 for the win. 

Honestly, asking someone if they are "a CPI or a core" is like asking Dem or Republican.  I'll take none of the above...  Thanks bye. 

Thu, 03/17/2011 - 08:35 | 1066003 malikai
malikai's picture

There's definitely something wrong with those numbers. Short of a low-level inversion and strong windshear in the lower altitudes, it makes no sense for those numbers to be true. Surface winds have been out of 010-030 which is directed towards Tokyo. I suspect someone's trying to hide something. The only thing I can think of to offset my beliefs is the effect of mountain wave/sea breeze on the 1000-3000ft altitudes.

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