It’s one of those get-togethers where everyone brings some food to
share. (As a result there is ten varieties of potato salad, a half dozen
vegetable dips and five plates of deviled eggs. And it was hot out.) I brought vodka.
It was a mixed crowd. A few local business folks (my plumber was there).
Mostly commuters to the Big Apple. Lawyers, a doctor or two. I met one
accountant. The Madison Avenue types are always a laugh. A number of
Wall Streeters (more women than men). And one blogger.
So I started an argument. It got out of hand. Some spouses had to break
it up. One lady later accused me of pushing the row; I was ‘raining’ on the holiday fun. And anyway, “there were kids around”. What type of example were “we” setting arguing like that?
At one point I found myself in a small crowd of folks. Being the
provocateur that I am, I asked the ‘right’ person what she thought of
Obama’s comments last week about taxing the shit out of those who use
corporate jets.
The response was an unequivocal (and predictable) voice of approval.
This person is a teacher. She knows first hand about the squeeze her
profession is facing. She says:
“Those who fly on these planes have to pay!”
I asked this particular question because I happened to know that one guy
in the mix worked for GECC (and knew a thing or two about aircraft
financing). Another has a wife who makes a decent buck as a ‘Stu’ on
private flights. They jumped all over the teacher.
That husband:
“You think it’s okay to put my wife out of work? So teachers can get a bloated pension?”
The GE guy:
“You don’t know what you’re talking about. Private aviation contributes $150 billion to the US economy. It employs 1.2mm people, most of those are union jobs. This is a success story. And you want to cripple it!”
The teacher looked like she was hit with a brick. But she has supporters. The local Veterinarian comes back with;
“What are you? Tea baggers? (the growing crowd of kids loved that insult) Why do you attack (the teacher). She’s been making a real contribution most of her life!
I guy I don’t know chips in:
I work for IBM. We have a 401 plan, but there is no guaranteed pension for me. Why should there be for a teacher? For that matter, why should a conductor on Metro North get that?
This was great. The IBMer stepped into a trap. He didn’t know that there were many attendees who work on the trains. (The main rail yard is right here in town) So right away it was; Fuck that! and Bullshit! and Fuck you! The poor IBM guy slinked off mumbling something about needing to ‘refresh’ a drink.
The Vet, (who now thought he was on the high ground) rang out:
The Republicans are stupid. We should roll back the Bush tax cuts. Rich people can afford to pay more!
I thought it was time to stir the pot a bit more. So I shook things up.
I knew that the damn Vet was overcharging a bundle tending for the dogs
and cats. So I say:
What’s
rich? And who will pay these taxes you want? This plan will also index
the AMT tax. Anyone with $165,000 of partnership or S-corp income is
going to get hit.
Then I rubbed it in with:
If you own a business and live in a high income tax state and also pay property taxes and have kids you’re about to be whacked!
The Vet, of course, has all of that working against him. He looks surprised and says:
Really?
So I add:
You
can’t move the dial on our problems with more taxes. You have to cut
expenses. If you’re not willing to talk about Social Security and
Medicare you’re just blowing in the wind.
That took things over the top. Those that were AARP eligible looked as if I had farted. Those under 35 gave a Yeah! Or a Right on! So I closed the door on any chance of civility when I asked a young (hot head) who works construction:
“How do you feel about paying Social Security for old people”.
He comes right back with the response I was looking for:
It’s stealing!
That got everyone going. Out of no place there are now 20 are so arguing about one thing or the other.
*Applause... Opera as it's finest with this Story.
The last time I attended any sort of gathering was a Funeral. The 60 or so remaining surviving Kin out of hundreds 30 years ago had very little to say to anyone. It was those who were honored guests who got the most face time at the kid's table. Yes As old I was was with my siblings and thier kids, we sat at the kids table.
It was a wonderful service. But even more wonderous at how little was said.
" The country is deeply divided on so many issues."
Divide and conquer.
"It might just rip us apart."
The Big Boyz have won.
Bruce,
I love this post! This says much about where we are as a culture, a nation, and a constituency.
Regards,
Cooter
so, a 12.4% of my salary over 42 years with compounded interest is not enough to provide me with an income stream equat to social security payments? listen, even at the lowest "safe" interest rate (not counting today's ZIRP) an average income-earner would have over $500K, easily! and then taking 4% er year wouldn't even touch the principal! so, you're saying i do not qualify? well, that's only b/c over last 40 years the contributions of the tens of millions were funnelled into the general revenues, where they made financial picture look better than it really was, and allowed for tax rates to be cut from 70 to 36%! so, unless you want a class war transform into a Communist Revolution, I think it would be better for everyone if top rates go to 40%, labor is NOT taxed at higher rates than capital gains, and there's a 1-2% "wealth" tax as in Norway - to force the top 1% to partially compensate the society for the ill-gotten gains over the past 30 years.
Try some simple math:
If you work roughly 40 years (age 25 to 65), and have 20 years retirement before you die (65 to 85), what must your savings rate be to provide retirement benefits of X% of your average salaries?
In a fraud and ponzi free economy, you can expect 1% to 2% real interest (after inflation) on those savings if there are no demographic problems like the baby boomer bulge. This is not a problem of ZIRP alone, but the sheer amount of capital looking for a return - I believe we can assume a real rate of return below 1% for our place in history, and that's before fraud is discounted.
If I put X at 60, i.e. I want 60% lifetime average salary as my retirement benefit, you need to save 30% of your income towards retirement and you better never be out of work. 1% or 2% interest gives you 35% to 81% accumulated interest, so this might lower the needed savings rate to 22.2% or 16.6%.
Have a nice day...
You shoulda been at the party. You would have been one side of the story.
You didn't pay 12.4%. You paid half that. You're right about the interest. Half of the SS Trust Fund's "surplus" is interest. So actually of what is there, "you" contributed about 1/4.
Sad to say, what you (and I) "saved" with this system is far short of what it is now going to cost. Raising taxes on younger workers is just going to compound the problem.
duplicate
Sure... 12.4% of your salary invested for your retirement over 42 years would provide a basic post-work income. Too bad that isn't the way SS is structured. It has little to do with the past 40 years... it's been that way from the very beginning.
SS is a transfer program. Nothing more. It is not a savings account, an investemnt program, an annuity, or an insurance program. It is just another transfer program.
You and I never paid a dime towards our own retirements; we paid for those who were already retired. And when our turn comes to retire, the workers of tomorrow pay for us... if there are enough of them, and if they are prosperous enough. And those two "ifs" are big and unlikely.
If you've got a problem with that, take it up with FDR and friends. They created the pyramid scheme foundation for SS... we just get to live out the consequences.
TCC,
It was until the Dems unlocked the fund, and made it a General Fund.
It was totally separate and set aside.
That was one of the ways sociopath Lyndon Johnson tried to pay for both guns and butter, wasn't it?
Anyone who doubts the adjective of "sociopath" should read Robert Caro's books
I love this story, it's national lampoonesque. But like all comedy, it's very grounded in truth.
Jeez, Bruce. Sounds like you should be a politician.
You have no idea how right you are. It will be 1861 all over again once the Dollar crashes. The Dollar is the only thing holding the States to the Union. Once it crashes, and we all know that will happen. The 50 (or 57) State union is finished. There will be no war started to prevent any "red" state from leaving. Ask any liberal how the feel about the South and Red States in general. They would be more than happy to see them leave and would demand they take the Constitution and Bill of Rights with them. This will be like India giving up part of the country at the end of British rule, creating Pakistan for the Muslims.
There will be no war started to prevent any [...] state from leaving.
Dream on.
LJS,
Dude, this sounds like a plot from a bad Adam Sandler movie, f'ing hilarious!
One question I would've asked the teacher is: would you still say the same thing a private entity paid your wages?
In addition to the corporate jets tax: i want people who get their science information from Rush Limbaugh to get ALL of their science information from Rush Limbaugh, especially aviation. I don't want anyone using the Federal Aviation Authority; I want you using Rush to guide your jet in. When you auger in, I want the microphone on so I can hear whether you squeal. I don't want Mitch McConnell and John Boehner deciding the items to cut, I want all Republicans everywhere to stop using the FAA. Dotto the FCC. Ditto the interstates. You have state roads, you use them. I'd hire the unemployed to shoot your tires out before you ever get on the exit ramps. Third time, you'd lose your driver license.
You have no idea how outraged my Republican pals get when I mention the above. Smaller government? 12th Century? Sure, pal, as long as Republicans get the same and their alleged wealth stops protecting them..
hellenic couplet must be a grad of air america -16
Is there anything dumber than the retort that wanting less government means you have to have no government?
And this is why our Founders pushed for limited government.
Many claim that they are outdated, but most were pretty damn smart and had lived under tyranny.
That was funny as shit! Like a 3 Stooges episode but in Color!
From a politician's viewpoint: How in the world can they appeal to enough voters to get elected? There are so many groups "entitled people" to make promises to, what's the common denominator that will win re-election?
divide by 0
True, yet how can anyone new campaign without promising something to somebody? I just don't see enough people turning out at the polls to vote for "less", its like stabbing yourself and tiger too. Hopefully it exposes the politicians for the whores that they are. I live 1 block south of FL Rep. West's district, now there's a tough guy I would vote for.
note: dividing by zero = infinity
(i/o/w, promise the moon before it ceases to exist)
Thanx, I understand /0=∞ but how-to get humans to polling places...? Who wins? We all lose, but I would love a good gov'mint j-o-b w/ bennies... lol
I'm hearing West Side Story.
"I want to live in America"
Well, not so much.
Flew to India and holed up with friends. Took a drink up on the roof and watched four foot wingspan Giant Fruit Bats dart around the evening sky. Slight crescent moon. Hundred degrees and humid. The smell of mangos and eucalyptus. Fed some wild parakeets out of my hand. Don't need no iPad. Happy 4th.
I'm hearing East Side Story.
Took subway to lower east side and holed up in tenement with friends. Took a drink up on the roof and watched four foot wingspan Wall Street Dracula Bats dart around the evening sky. Slight crescent moon. Hundred degrees and humid. The smell of rotting mortgages, CDSs, and Greek restaurant garbage bags. Ate some wild pigeons with my bare hand. No alternate side of street parking tomorrow. Happy 4th.
Bruce, you'd make a great marriage counselor.
everything's proceeding according to plan
Coulda, woulda, shoulda.
Awesome, a man after my own heart... Truth can start a ball rolling...
Bruce,
Does this mean you are off of the "A" list?
You can't make this stuff up I suppose. Funny and sad at once.
Beyond social networks which are simply used as sophisticated marketing machines lies the outlier that they become political machines and actually work to give voice to that which has remained silent for quite some time. Like at your BBQ. Messy but necessary me thinks.
+ whatever.
"So I started an argument. It got out of hand. Some spouses had to break it up."
Pfffttt. Unless it ends in blood and EMT's and Police it just ain't a holiday "argument".
Then again with that level of fairy, attorneys/doctors/beards (sorry wives), I'm surprised it didn't end with a slap fight and everybody snapping their fingers at each other shouting " Don't go there bitch, don't go there!".
Do I get an invite to the neighborhood Thanksgiving dinner you are hosting Bruce?
Ah, Bruce. Your evil genius is why I love you so much. Happy 4th and may your health insurance premiums go down.
Ps- Whoever has the most firepower wins whatever argument.
Nice work Bruce. But the real question at hand is: Will you be invited for this same suaree next year?
If that had happened it would have been hilarious. Great story. Pass the vodka Bruce.
Absolutely hysterical Mr. Krasting. Made my day. You are correct about this coming election though. Blood will spill. I guarantee it. I wish that wasn't the case but in fact those with power now make the Eurocrats look cool and calm.
Funny how the term 'extremist' gets tossed around?
The crowd in control today WILL kill before giving us our country back.
Bet on it.
You don't have to bet on it; Nov. 23thd., 1963. It's a historical fact.
It's time to break it up.
+1, and for making the point in the most succinct way possible.
Well- I guess I am about to be baptized by fire on the fight club part of this blog, but here goes.
In the search for TRUTH which is the mantra I live by, I personally believe truth has to be shared in a loving and caring way. Men and women see things differently and have different approaches to communication. Not that is is right or wrong- I do not judge people by the way they choose to communicate. The post made me sad because I am into community building. These people live next to you or in very close proximity. When you share truth the way I choose to, it gives the other person something to think about. I can't stand the kind of conflict you describe. From the description of where you live, I feel sorry for you. I am very thankful for the small community we live in and the fact that my husband is the plumber in the community, we have welders, technicians of all kinds high tech and medium tech, skilled licensed tradesmen, bus drivers, school teachers, hourly workers in the oil industry, truck drivers, poets, home schoolers, authors- Just a bunch of folks that help each other and come together to share ideas. We have a couple of neighborhood pot luck parties every year and we all discuss issues, but in a way that is not so "in your face".
I think more ground for the truth and for waking people up is gained by using basic kindness and love for your fellow human beings. Again- I am not attacking Bruce, I just feel sad for him.
You feel sad for someone because you have a superior communication style and relationship with your community. Um..superiority complex? Do you sense the irony at all in "I do not judge people"...and..."I feel sad for him"...
Do you sense the irony in saying that you don't judge people by the communication style and then suggesting Bruce's leaves much to be desired (in your opinion)?
Did you ever consider the story was made up to make a point? Do you really think a fat lady fell into the potato salad?
Does your holier-than-thou shtick actually create community? Bullshit. Hey, the Huffpost wants you back...it's that way ===>
Exactly; it's called female logic. A perfect example of why women should not have the vote.
Your EURUSD short should engage when the AUDUSD pair tips a double-top @ 1.10.
Enjoy your holiday!
:D
Huffington post is by far too main stream for this gal. Yes, I am a woman and I have a different viewpoint. I also have feelings and I am allowed to feel sad for someone. Yes, the story did seem over-the-top. I have personally witnessed a scenario similar to this and appreciate that Bruce used it to make a point.
I completely understand what you are saying.
I think you are very blessed to have such a local community of which to be a part.
This said, you have to accept that most people are truly cattle. They will not wake up because of anything you say. In fact, I would even go as far to suggest that *if* you could simply talk to someone and impart an understanding that "wakes them up" you would by definition be the second coming of JC.
What concerns me most is that when things get really ugly, and I am pretty sure they will, a significant segment of society will throw anyone under the bus they can to avoid accepting the discomfort foisted on them.
Regards,
Cooter
"In the search for TRUTH which is the mantra I live by..."
The truth is in the eye of the beholder.
Isn't that, well...the truth.
GW Bush was simultaneouly, we are told, the best AND the worst Prez ever. How can that be.
Einstein said, paraphrased, that in between the extremes lies the real truth. That is the investment philosophy that I employ as well....find the biggest Bulls and the worst Bears...and know it isn't as good, or bad, as those cases. That is why I peruse ZH.