It’s one of those get-togethers where everyone brings some food to
share. (As a result there is ten varieties of potato salad, a half dozen
vegetable dips and five plates of deviled eggs. And it was hot out.) I brought vodka.
It was a mixed crowd. A few local business folks (my plumber was there).
Mostly commuters to the Big Apple. Lawyers, a doctor or two. I met one
accountant. The Madison Avenue types are always a laugh. A number of
Wall Streeters (more women than men). And one blogger.
So I started an argument. It got out of hand. Some spouses had to break
it up. One lady later accused me of pushing the row; I was ‘raining’ on the holiday fun. And anyway, “there were kids around”. What type of example were “we” setting arguing like that?
At one point I found myself in a small crowd of folks. Being the
provocateur that I am, I asked the ‘right’ person what she thought of
Obama’s comments last week about taxing the shit out of those who use
corporate jets.
The response was an unequivocal (and predictable) voice of approval.
This person is a teacher. She knows first hand about the squeeze her
profession is facing. She says:
“Those who fly on these planes have to pay!”
I asked this particular question because I happened to know that one guy
in the mix worked for GECC (and knew a thing or two about aircraft
financing). Another has a wife who makes a decent buck as a ‘Stu’ on
private flights. They jumped all over the teacher.
That husband:
“You think it’s okay to put my wife out of work? So teachers can get a bloated pension?”
The GE guy:
“You don’t know what you’re talking about. Private aviation contributes $150 billion to the US economy. It employs 1.2mm people, most of those are union jobs. This is a success story. And you want to cripple it!”
The teacher looked like she was hit with a brick. But she has supporters. The local Veterinarian comes back with;
“What are you? Tea baggers? (the growing crowd of kids loved that insult) Why do you attack (the teacher). She’s been making a real contribution most of her life!
I guy I don’t know chips in:
I work for IBM. We have a 401 plan, but there is no guaranteed pension for me. Why should there be for a teacher? For that matter, why should a conductor on Metro North get that?
This was great. The IBMer stepped into a trap. He didn’t know that there were many attendees who work on the trains. (The main rail yard is right here in town) So right away it was; Fuck that! and Bullshit! and Fuck you! The poor IBM guy slinked off mumbling something about needing to ‘refresh’ a drink.
The Vet, (who now thought he was on the high ground) rang out:
The Republicans are stupid. We should roll back the Bush tax cuts. Rich people can afford to pay more!
I thought it was time to stir the pot a bit more. So I shook things up.
I knew that the damn Vet was overcharging a bundle tending for the dogs
and cats. So I say:
What’s
rich? And who will pay these taxes you want? This plan will also index
the AMT tax. Anyone with $165,000 of partnership or S-corp income is
going to get hit.
Then I rubbed it in with:
If you own a business and live in a high income tax state and also pay property taxes and have kids you’re about to be whacked!
The Vet, of course, has all of that working against him. He looks surprised and says:
Really?
So I add:
You
can’t move the dial on our problems with more taxes. You have to cut
expenses. If you’re not willing to talk about Social Security and
Medicare you’re just blowing in the wind.
That took things over the top. Those that were AARP eligible looked as if I had farted. Those under 35 gave a Yeah! Or a Right on! So I closed the door on any chance of civility when I asked a young (hot head) who works construction:
“How do you feel about paying Social Security for old people”.
He comes right back with the response I was looking for:
It’s stealing!
That got everyone going. Out of no place there are now 20 are so arguing about one thing or the other.
Did anyone ever call GW Bush the "best" president ever? Seriously?
I don't know about "best" but logically he cannot be the worst, as Obama has continued one war the left hated [Iraq], expanded the war Obama claimed was the "good" war [Afghanistan] causing many, many more deaths of American soldiers, and started wars in three more countries [Pakistan, Yemen, Libya]. He also encouraged insurrection in Egypt that is still not resolved, and will most likely end up his "Iran". In addition, the national debt has gone through the roof on his watch, many multiples of the debt racked up during the Bush years. In just those two areas [war, finance] he has eclipsed Bush by far. If he gets another four years I doubt any President in history can take the "worst" crown from Obama. He may also have the "last" crown if he continues to undermine the Constitution.
In Obama's defense, he wasn't going to be able to stop either the Iraq or Afghanistan wars immediately. To me his biggest failing was his either refusal or blindness to see that the banking and finance industry needed to be totally restructured.
Unfortunately, like, I think, most Harvard types, he had status rained down upon him by the status quo and so tends to not question the status quo. The too big to jail banks were huge contributors to his campaign and he had neither the integrity nor the insight to see that despite that he had to take them down. He had a once in a generation chance to do so. But he and his attorney general, Eric "Place" Holder have done nothing at all.
The motto of Harvard is "veritas". Truth. And it's necessary to know the truth to know what should be done. But if you're too cowardly or besotted with the flattering of your vanity to do anything, then the truth is just the best conjecture.
Well sure they did, I think...maybe....
Barbara Bush I think...?
No wait, he was the Second Best...the second best President Bush Ever
The thing is our beliefs pull all observed reality through its prism and we decode said information according to that which supports our own belief system. The truth is in the eye of the beholder and that's why two smart and honest people can have a debate on subjects and actually both be correct. (Except that whole Bush thingy. My belief is that they are all part and parcel to the greatest criminal conspiracy ever to be launched on the planet. Anyone have any other ideas? I would love to listen...)
Just because Bruce mischeivously threw red meat into the party doesn't make him a criminal, nor does it make him "sad." Would you rather that everyone stood around agreeing with each other all day? That would suck.
Great point. In the community I live in, as well as all the different careers people have, we have beliefs from one end of the spectrum to the other. We don't stand "around agreeing with each other all day". It is great because our differing beliefs help us to learn and grow- and respectfully disagree. In fact, when things have gotten heated, our ground rule is applied. We share our thoughts and feelings and do not personally attack one another. If you are hurt, find out why you feel threatened and then you can learn something about truth- both yours and the other persons.
Yes indeed. A short story...I am (or was) basically conservative. My daughter, not so much. Through the years, she and her friends and their very different ways have shown me alternative ways of life that opened my eyes...and that I accepted alternative ways. They work, they thrive. Huzzah!
Alternate ways of living and thinking CAN coexist in harmony. Damn, now I am sounding almost like a hippie.
LOL. No way. Then all the time I have spent arguing politics, sports, etc, on message boards could have been spent productively...and THAT would suck ;>)
How'd you do on your "March Madness" bracket, by the way?
Ha!
mahalopamala
"In the search for TRUTH which is the mantra I live by, I personally believe truth has to be shared in a loving and caring way."
Awww Dude, you don't even realize what a victim that makes you. Matter of fact I'm surprised you still have a pc, could belong to the library,to post on.
The truth is relative more like this
Rashomon effectThe Rashomon effect is the effect of the subjectivity of perception on recollection, by which observers of an event are able to produce substantially different but equally plausible accounts of it.
"I think more ground for the truth and for waking people up is gained by using basic kindness and love for your fellow human beings."
Dude that is such a death trap attitude. You may as well post your next of kin so we can send flowers and our condolences when your attitude finally meets the Genpop.
I can see your epitaph reading something like
Here lies...
He meant well
Then the real world caved his skull in for his pocket change and slurpy.
Maybe in your haste to post a comment you might have noticed that the DUDE is a lady.
I enjoy sharing my thoughts here and I am glad you shared yours. As a woman, I realize how important it is to build community and so that is why I like to hear other peoples differing opinions and to share mine. I think we learn from others and communication helps us to refine and add to our points of view. My husband did warn me to have a thick skin before I posted here. Hope you have a wonderful day!
Hey, mahalo,
Don't worry about Gully. He has an axe to grind (and teeth to grind) no matter what you write. He still lives with his mom at home, with the shades drawn closed and yesterday's pizza next to his keyboard. He never says anything positive or uplifting about anyone here on ZH because he's too bitter.
You're correct, mahalo...if people would be nicer to each other, most of life's social problems would naturally decrease or even go away. Liberty wouldn't be endangered.
Thank you Hacked. :)
Looks like you might be disapointed? Nobody here has jumped you yet. You sound like a perfect fit in my personal opinion. In fact you sound down right Libertarian for that matter.
Imagine how much more rich our lives could be/ our communities could be/ our families and circle of friends if the mega state DID NOT insist on sucking all the air out of the available space?
All I really want is freedom to be me and I want you to be free to be you.
I am fairly confident that we could come to terms with that as a 'princible of understanding' absent the Federal Farcist intervention.
Three D's my friend.
Check out Charles Hugh.
Want some C.D.? Then contemplate a radical rightwing extremist like me who reads him everyday, and with pleasure.
:)
We aren't the bad guys friend.
www.oftwominds.com
C.D. What CD? - see DEEZ NUTS (sorry I had to, you were begging for that one) Happy 4th
Whatever funny guy.
Happy fourth to you too.
Seems to me, many of the issues that elected Obama still exist for many people, but this election cycle the other side is back off the canvas and are going to protect their turf. Obama might have lost some of his support, but he knows the traditional class warfare buttons to push (just the right buttons during these times) to possibly fill the missing gap in his base or to give those disappointed with him, new reasons to vote for him.
I too was at a party last night and encountered a kindred spirit who knows what his happening, we both exchanged our disappointment with what seems to be a willing ignorance among most Americans, despite their income strata. A younger fellow who over heard us joined in for a while, and yes the looming generational conflict was heard in his words. Later, a fat and happy (MD) state worker joined in and left rather angry. Facts and numbers can do that when all you have is an ideologically shaped reality as a counter point.
Another party goer was my wife's former college roommate. An employee of the state of Pennsylvania who works for a high ranking democrat in appropriations, for the state. Of course the current governor of Pennsylvania is an evil ogre who is "unnecessarily slashing" the state budget. Since I was not familiar with with the financial status of Pennsylvania I inquired as to their condition, she assured me they were running a budget surplus in the hundreds of millions. I asked if the governor was putting those funds in a "rainy day" account. She said no, the governor said he couldn't because they were receiving fed bailout funds and then were prohibited by the conditions set forth from doing so. "Whoa, hold on." I said. "How much are the feds giving you?" "Oh, about four billion." was her matter-of-fact reply. I quickly asked "So then absent those federal funds, the state is actually in the red?" To which she gave a brief and unapologetic "Uh-huh" and continued on eating from her plate completely missing the point of my question.
Willing ignorance or self-imposed delusions? Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference.
G. I'm very skeptical that a class warfare based campaign will actually work for Obama for a couple reasons. For one, he's inadvertantly set himself up with an image of being utterly tone deaf toward the working man. But, more than that, he's the freaking president! A class warfare campaign works better if you're an outsider. In 2009 and 2010 his party had control (though, yes, not 60 votes in the senate) of both houses of congress. And inequality got worse. Only the most credulous boob in a hundred will listen to him try the John Edwards 2 americas shtick and not wonder, "um, anc where the hell were you these past few years, mr. president?"
As to the woman who's a Pennsylvania state employee, if she's really so dumb as to bluster forth with a line of reasoning that can get obliterated by 5 seconds questioning, she'd better hope she never gets cast out into the dreaded private sector.
Fred,
usually the class warfare stuff is above the president. My fellow traveler last night, agreed with this observation as well. That said...
1) He's already engaged in it.
2) There's a significant audience receptive to it, just read Bruce's experience and mine over again.
3) Obama has shown himself to be shameless, no tactic is beneath him (not surprising for a Chicago pol) and the corporate media will more be more than happy to facilitate him. After all, who are they gonna get behind? Romney? Bachmann? Palin?
4) Running as a transitional reform candidate is out, it's all he has left.
As for my wife's former room-mate, apparently you've never run into a partisan democrat who believes their position is the most "pragmatic"? Later I overheard her reciting a list of groups that could be taxed because they aren't "paying their fairshare and are supporters of the governor." . After all, that is the pragmatic thing to do, while cutting spending is evil and mean-spirited, no?
You have very clear vision, thanks.
(So far I avoided putting myself into Obama's shoes for reelection run...)
And sadly as shit as each other.
This reminds me of this country (UK), where people on the dole won't get jobs because they 'earn' just as much from social security as doing something productive for the country, and enriching their own self esteem.
Get pregnant, get a council flat, get a dog on a string, walk with a limp (to get some extra disability benefit). These are all legitimate career moves in the UK.
Fuckin' losers.
jmcadg
Losers? I see people who capitalized on the flaws in the system, while the rest of the schlubs toil their day away.
Fuck man, those are the ones who would slip right in with US political society.
The loser is the one NOT making a buck from a weak system.
This story sounds like slaves defending their crumbs.
I also plan to spend the 4th with family, celebrating independence day in a country that has not only lost its way, but has been hijacked by traitors and thieves.
"Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose."
Based on Kris K's song lyrics, perhaps we are gaining more freedom every day.
Happy 4th, ZH clan
Nice work, Bruce!
Mencken said it best:
"Every election is a sort of advance auction of stolen goods."
"All government is, in its essence, organized exploitation, and in virtually all of its existing forms it is the implacable enemy of every industrious and well-disposed man."
I went to a 4th of July party yesterday and all I can say is thank God it's over. The most boringly stupid, normalcy bias group of overfed middle class dunces I have ever had the pleasure of leaving.
The food was OK, but they ran out of ice and tonic water. This after the host and his wife spent the past two weeks sprucing up their lovely home. I don't know who they intended to impress, but for a party of may 30 people, it sucked big time.
All of these people were just indoctrinated debt slaves with no idea how badly they are being ass-raped on a daily basis. They mostly talk about useless shit and how they can buy more toys than their cousin or other relative.
Fucking joke. Glad I made an early escape.
Maybe my favorite part is the huge pool which takes up almost the entire back yard. Not a single person went in, and the actual residents of the place have not used it once in two years. I guess there's just some need to be close to a large body of water and have a monthly electric bill the size of Con Edison to pay for recirculating that water all summer.
Boo-Yah! indeed. The vast majority of Americans celebrating their "freedom" don't have a clue to just how completely enslaved by the system they are, nor do they realize how well off they are compared to the rest of the world.
I kept suggesting that we all could be living in Syria or Yemen and see how we'd like it. Of course, nobody wanted to talk to me, which was fine.
<rant off>
That is weird, my brother has a uncle in law that has a beautiful inground pool with a inground hot tube attached, and an electric cover that is a few inched above the water, I have been there a few times and his family never gets in either one, only the guests. I would swim daily if I had such a pool. Is this a rich guy thing? Buy it to impress even though you don't like to swim?
I just had to have me one o' them nice Schmidt pool tables back in the late 1970s for my oak paneled den, nice leaded glass light hanging over it. Used it a couple of times but the cover usually only came off at parties. Wish I had that money back now. Instead of having to shore up the floor joints for the table I'd be digging a hidey-hole in that spot to store my PMs.
Moe,
No, it's like a new car, after a while you tire of it.
FreeNewEnergy
You know they waited for the killjoys to leave and had a big drunken orgy in that pool.
Who wants some whiner killing the blowjob buzz from a smorgasbord of hopped up cougars?
+1
I think it's the need to have an immediate escape root - ie drowning.
Wow. It sounds like a cartoon. Wish Canadians partied like that. Instead of honestly exchanged opionions, there would have been polite nods and patronizing stares
You had me right up to the part about the fat lady! Why?? Because it's so plausible! In fact, I've been to a couple of those 4th of July parties on the Hudson -- that's why i moved to Scottsdale. It's too f***ing hot for all the fighting- we just drink and pray for rain.
Very funny and a nice writeup!!
Do the proles still call it "Snotsdale"?
I always think of it as "the white ghetto". Heaven for the overpaid and undereducated.
enjoyed this bit BK.
happy 7.4.11.
Think this is your most amusing tale since you were told your chainsaw wouldn't start because of your alcohol problem. Too bad you didn't video the affair and put Nat King Cole singing Those Lazy Crazy Days of Summer for a soundtrack.
I need to invite you to MY next party. Mine are never that lively!
Nor mine!
Maybe I can pull a "Bruce Krasting" the next party I go to...
Go to a party and... Be that Bruce...
You're like inverse Jesus; sermon under the mount!
Was anyone actually moved to reconsider their positions in light of new information?
Or did they merely retreat into their differently-abled corners of denial and flail without any increase in awareness?
LOL..Bruce, you trouble maker.
I am not against a raising of taxes IF the government were to be run by grown ups. Until then, I hide every nickel I can from taxation.
OTOH, I am hereby proposing an "Asshat Tax". It would be levied on anyone in the entertainment industry, professional athletes or financial industry. Basically, it would be a 110% tax on on anyone popularly convicted of "asshatery"...like too much bling, public foolishness, or trashing the entire world economy to increase their bonus.
Recent history is littered with examples of tax increases made with the promise that government will cut back spending or be more "responsible". This is one the the reasons we are in our current situation.
Time to break the cycle.
Yea, just give me a little bit more, then I'll stop. I promise.
One can only imagine what would be incorporated into the 2011 Financial Asshat Recoverery Tax legislation (978 pages long). Provisions for the construction, mainainance and siting of the new asshat detention camps are found on pages 321-346. Provisions for televising the asshat tribunals on CourtTV are on p.634. The authorization to confiscate privately held stockpiles of strategic commodities (defined to only include gold, silver and platinum) is encoded in the middle paragraph of page 765. Don't let an alchoholic hold a bottle whisky and don't encourage congress to pass ANY laws, they can't handle the temptation.
Despite the moniker, I still think the FART program would be less foul smelling than the TARP program.
Geez, what Fox would pay for the rights to broadcast that, LOL.
But, I am thinking much simpler terms. The entire code would be, "Act Asshatish and pay bitchez". Popular court would be by voting thumbs up-thumbs down on the internet.