This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

IAEA Says "There Might Be Re-Criticality At Fukushima"

Tyler Durden's picture





 

Remember Fukushima?

  • IAEA SAYS `THERE MIGHT BE RE-CRITICALITY' AT FUKUSHIMA
  • IAEA COMMENTS AT PRESS CONFERENCE IN VIENNA
  • IAEA DIRECTOR GENERAL YUKIYA AMANO SPEAKS AT BRIEFING IN VIENNA
  • IAEA HAS NO INFORMATION FROM TEPCO ON NEUTRON DETECTORS

If indeed the reactor has gone critical again, the whole concrete dome idea may have to be promptly scrapped.

More soon

 


- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:35 | Link to Comment Racer
Racer's picture

More great news for the Sh!t & P[ss

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:37 | Link to Comment Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

Report form yesterday -

http://www.jaif.or.jp/english/news_images/pdf/ENGNEWS01_1301489625P.pdf

Of course, without an engineering degree those numbers and the units they're in are just going to look like more Japanese script to the average layman ...

Extract of the above document showing just the 'pressures':

http://oi51.tinypic.com/2v7ukgi.jpg

Summarizing : The only reactor showing any positive 'pressure' (and not presumably leaking) are #1 Reactor vessel and #1 Containment vessel ...

#2 and #3 both show close to atmospheric pressure for their Reactor and Containment vessels ...

Reactor pressure excerpt, bigger image:

http://oi54.tinypic.com/358o3yr.jpg

 

 

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:49 | Link to Comment PhattyBuoy
PhattyBuoy's picture

Like the Negative (-) water levels. Bone dry core pools.

Is that a negative pressure on #2?

Negative pressure on part of #3 also ...

Ya, like those eggs aren't busted ...

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:48 | Link to Comment Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

They report, we decide - could be bad reading, could be within the tolerance of whatever back-up instrument they are using ... also note they are showing both 'Guage' (relative to atmoshphere at .101 MPaAbs) and 'Absolute' readings ...

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:02 | Link to Comment PhattyBuoy
PhattyBuoy's picture

The water levels should be positive numbers, at least 1000+.

Look at the pressure for #1.

#2 & #3 pressure should be comparable.

Some people still think the #2 &#3 pressures are normal ...  absolute BS !

 

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:09 | Link to Comment Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

#2 and 3 have been screwed for weeks now, judging by the numbers in the reports that these guys have been posting:

http://www.jaif.or.jp/english/index.php

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:19 | Link to Comment PhattyBuoy
PhattyBuoy's picture

Yes you are correct.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 13:07 | Link to Comment divide_by_zero
divide_by_zero's picture

This flyover video got yanked from most websites right after posting(Yomiori Daily copyright), check out especially at 3:00 and on of #3, these things are toast. Very high quality stabilized video.

 

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8ac_1301263689

 

 

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 13:20 | Link to Comment Don Birnam
Don Birnam's picture

Excellent footage. There still exists a considerably steady flow of steam emanating from these reactors.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 13:49 | Link to Comment divide_by_zero
divide_by_zero's picture

At 3:05 what appears to be the RPV cockedup against the wall(bottom half maybe) at least from the building schematics that are online.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 15:12 | Link to Comment Commander Cody
Commander Cody's picture

Unit 4 reactor head.  Unit 4 was defueled for maintenance at the time of the earthquake/tsunami.  The reactor head sits on a stand on the refueling floor when removed.  Not a significant aspect.

What is significant is that it appears that the containment dome blew out of the Unit 3 reactor and little appears to be left of the refueling floor, its equipment and the spent fuel pool.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 17:54 | Link to Comment whoopsing
whoopsing's picture

Look closer,that blown out dome and head are in the same building-#3,also notice a lapse of 1 minute in the footage that was cut out.Other that that you are right CC

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 14:45 | Link to Comment Antarctico
Antarctico's picture

Good find -- this is one of the clearest videos I have seen.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 15:32 | Link to Comment CD
CD's picture

Minor & not unexpected detail, in the grand scheme of things -- but unusual for IAEA to admit to problems:

 

IAEA worried about radiation in Japan village

VIENNA — Radiation levels recorded at a village outside the evacuation zone around the quake-striken Fukushima nuclear plant are above safe levels, the UN atomic watchdog said Wednesday.

The International Atomic Energy Agency said safe limits had been exceeded at Iitate village, 40 kilometres (25 miles) northwest of Fukushima, well outside the government-imposed 20 kilometre exclusion zone and the 30-kilometre "stay indoors" zone.

[...]

 

According to Elena Buglova, head of the IAEA's Incident and Emergency Centre, the reading in Iitate village was 2 megabecquerels per square metre. 

That was a "ratio about two times higher than levels" at which the agency recommends evacuations, she explained.

 

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5ggEDd3a7F7myZHkDkvyogDMF3Jcg?docId=CNG.05699daf45628fa5b4755fac509ba9e5.2e1

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 15:51 | Link to Comment Lapri
Lapri's picture

Thanks for the link! Yomiuri apparently asserted copyright, but that video was taken directly from the Self Defense Force's Youtube channel.

My guess: Yomiuri did it for TEPCO. Why? TEPCO is their big advert customer.

Check out my post on Japan's Advertising Council and how many utility companies sit on the board.

http://ex-skf.blogspot.com/2011/03/7-electric-power-companies-sit-on-boa...

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:04 | Link to Comment Hard1
Hard1's picture

Dunno for sure what re-criticality is, but sounds bullish for Netflix to me

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:38 | Link to Comment stormsailor
stormsailor's picture

absolutely bullish,  all those new people signing up with netflix to rent the china syndrome and silkwood.

 

i believe we knew of re-criticality last thursday when neutron beams were reported on site.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:41 | Link to Comment stormsailor
stormsailor's picture

.  friggin captcha,  ask what 64 plus 65 is, and then says it cannot be 3 digits? wtf

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 13:54 | Link to Comment mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

81 hexadecimal ?

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 16:13 | Link to Comment 1fortheroad
1fortheroad's picture

Stocks Gain as Radiation rises Less Than Feared- AB

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:18 | Link to Comment CD
CD's picture

For anyone able to make sense of complicated calculations, there is an interesting perspective from researcher whom I gather to be a physicist - supporting the criticality thesis. Based on comments in article about obsessing with the Fukushima crisis, possibly a fellow ZH-er.

Linked from TIME blog:

http://ecocentric.blogs.time.com/2011/03/30/has-fukushimas-reactor-no-1-gone-critical/

Original article:

http://lewis.armscontrolwonk.com/files/2011/03/Cause_of_the_high_Cl38_Radioactivity.pdf

 

 

 

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:35 | Link to Comment Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

From the blog posting:

On March 23 ... report by Kyodo news agency .... observed a neutron beam about 1.5 km away from the plant. Bursts of neutrons in large quantities can only come from fission

To nuclear workers, there are few events more fearful than a criticality accident.

In such a scenario, the fissile material in a reactor core--be it enriched uranium or plutonium--undergoes a spontaneous chain reaction, releasing a flash of aurora-blue light and a surge of neutron radiation; the gamma rays, neutrons and radioactive fission products emitted during criticality are highly dangerous to humans.

Criticality occurs so rapidly--within a few fractions of a second--and so unpredictably that it can suddenly kill workers without warning. There have been 60 criticality incidents worldwide since 1945. The most recent occurred in Japan in 1999, at an experimental reactor in Tokai, when a beam of neutrons killed two workers, hospitalized dozens of emergency workers and nearby residents, and forced hundreds of thousands to remain indoors for 24 hours.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 13:48 | Link to Comment trav7777
trav7777's picture

was unaware of any Cl38 in the seawater...but the point remains.

Neutrons only come from fission and there isn't enough Pu240 to do this.  Pellets + water = critical.

they are going to need a lot more borax.

random fission inside the reactor would be like normal operation of it; that portion of the article is erroneous.  If the reactor vessel is breached and pellets are outside of containment (SFPs hint), then you will see neutrons.

I have to wonder if they were borating the water being sprayed onto the fuel ponds.  These would seem to be the most likely source of stray neutrons.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 13:55 | Link to Comment Reptil
Reptil's picture

Good find!

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 13:06 | Link to Comment TomJoad
TomJoad's picture

Numbers coming out of Fukushima are more massaged than a prize (slightly radioactive) Kobe steer. More bullish too, since this means the power shortages are solved as well, either via re-criticality or depopulation.

 

Jump! You Bankster Fuckers!

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:37 | Link to Comment Cdad
Cdad's picture

Oh man...and I've been doing my due diligence on companies that make blown up nuclear reactor hats.  Tyler, you really messed me up on this one...right when I found one company that used tin foil instead of wool.

Shit!  I simply cannot get a break!

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:38 | Link to Comment Just Observing
Just Observing's picture

"If indeed the reactor has gone critical again, the whole concrete dome idea may have to be promptly scrapped."

 

And do WHAT ?? Just haul ass out of there ?

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:57 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

Damn.  I missed when it got uncritical. 

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:15 | Link to Comment Mad Max
Mad Max's picture

And do WHAT ?? Just haul ass out of there ?

Pull out and nuke it from orbit.  It's the only way to be sure.

No, I never heard of collateral damage.  Is that when your lien isn't filed properly?

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:37 | Link to Comment malikai
malikai's picture

Tyler, what's the source for that?

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:39 | Link to Comment Tyler Durden
Tyler Durden's picture

Bloomberg

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:47 | Link to Comment malikai
malikai's picture

IAEA hasn't updated their own news since yesterday.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:48 | Link to Comment bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

money talks

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:49 | Link to Comment SignsAndWonders
SignsAndWonders's picture

Protip, bullet point list in all caps = Bloomberg.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:57 | Link to Comment malikai
malikai's picture

I know. I was trying to find the 'source', not the repeater. But it doesn't matter. When it's substantiated, I'll know.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:36 | Link to Comment SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

This goes from 'reactor melted out of the containment' to 'all is well, we got this' hour to hour.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:01 | Link to Comment Stormdancer
Stormdancer's picture

They told us of radiation levels "10 million times normal.." and indicated massive amounts of Iodine 134 were the cause just a couple days ago.

That was very quickly "corrected" to a mere "100,000" times normal and "must have been some other isotope..." (without bothering to name it).

Something has been fissioning at least intermittently for days.  Since so much of the extreme radiation seems to emanate from reactor 2, and reactor 2 is now rumoured to have dumped it's load into the drywell...I reckon we're forced to consider the possibility that there is a molten pile of core contents sitting there spitting out fission by products.

 

TEPCO NEWS RELEASE - For Widest Dissemination

 

"We regret to inform you that an unanticipated transient event in our Public Relations Unit control room has resulted in an uncontrolled release of the truth.  Please ignore this one time event and remain confident that nothing that has happened since March 11th represents any kind of threat to human health.  Thank You.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 13:10 | Link to Comment SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

They run out to 'correct' the data, all the while saying 'So sorry, mistake, theres no problem here, please keep buying our food exports'. NAH theyre not lying or anything!

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 13:11 | Link to Comment MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

This goes from 'reactor melted out of the containment' to 'all is well, we got this' hour to hour.

rock-a-bye-baby, on the treetop...

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:37 | Link to Comment Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Good grief. So much song and dance when reality is staring us in the face.

I think lies and radioactivity are spewing at the same rate from in and around Fukushima. And both have loooong half lifes and tiney amounts can and will kill you.

ORI

http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2011/03/30/sex-unnatural-oxymoron-and-comment-streams-of-consciousness/

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 13:09 | Link to Comment SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Screw the haters ORI, I totaly agree! I laugh at those who run to the lying spinners in govt and media for solace. 

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:38 | Link to Comment assumptionblindness
assumptionblindness's picture

Fuk-u-shima seems most appropriate.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:40 | Link to Comment williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:42 | Link to Comment malikai
malikai's picture

I shouldn't have, but I did lol.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:47 | Link to Comment rosiescenario
rosiescenario's picture

....I now have 3 balls and have opened a pawn shop....all is well with me...

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:58 | Link to Comment yabyum
yabyum's picture

Do you have a guy in a chicken oufit w/sign "we  buy gold and silver" or did he already die of some rare cancer?

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:55 | Link to Comment Jay Gould Esq.
Jay Gould Esq.'s picture

William, never count your roentgens before they hatch -- it ain't over 'til it's over. This logo could end up enshrined in the pantheon of jumped shark logos, such as "Dow 10,000" baseball caps, the Pets.com sock puppet, and "Enron" tee-shirts.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:51 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

THAT would be a great t-shirt, wb7!

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:55 | Link to Comment williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

This is the logo being displayed by users on FuckedGaijin.com, which menas Fucked Foreignors.com

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:55 | Link to Comment Jay Gould Esq.
Jay Gould Esq.'s picture

Gaijin and proud of it, bitchez-san !

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:15 | Link to Comment williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

You can junk it, but the guys on that site are in Tokyo walking the walk.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:38 | Link to Comment CD
CD's picture

http://www.fuckedgaijin.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26341

"Ukranian Nataliya Gudziy speaks above in Japanese about growing up in the shadow of Chernobyl. Her hometown was Prypyat, one of the villages near Chernobyl which was evacuated after the disaster. Her father worked in the power plant, and stayed behind with orders to work on the clean-up while six year old Nataliya and the rest of her family went to Kiev. They were told it would only be for three days so they should leave everything behind. They weren't allowed back even twenty years later. She sings the song from "Spirited Away" at the 5:30 mark."

I guess I am being (even more) sentimental today, but items like this (trivial though they may seem) remind me that there is more to life than a) eternal pessimism and b) pseudo-sentient robot algos and their demonic elitist overlords destroying our world one pixel a femtosecond...

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 13:48 | Link to Comment Kassandra
Kassandra's picture

+6...for WB7.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:40 | Link to Comment Ethics Gradient
Ethics Gradient's picture

Someone check me on this. I'm happy to be corrected.

If the control rods are inserted, what is left is latent heat. The only way criticality could resume is if the fuel is now no-where near the control rods.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:45 | Link to Comment Rogerwilco
Rogerwilco's picture

If the contents of the fuel rods are melted, there is no "control". Think about it for ten seconds -- several tons of molten goo are sitting at the bottom of the reactor, where do the heaviest metals like Pu239 and U235 go? That's right, they will fall to the bottom. What happens when you get enough PU or U together in one place at the same time?

It's not a Happy Meal.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:50 | Link to Comment FranSix
FranSix's picture

Don't worry if the control rods weren't inserted at all. White collar workers never go to jail for criminal negligence.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:49 | Link to Comment Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

Geometry and water is as important as the presence of the control rods.  Without water and with rods melting into a new geometry the reactor is re-arranging itself.  The only thing that can stop it is to be diluted with melt from the bottom of the containment i.e. concrete and steel. 

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:02 | Link to Comment IQ 145
IQ 145's picture

 You need a new hobby that doesn't involve typing. It's not very helpful to babble when you don't know anything.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 15:13 | Link to Comment CD
CD's picture

Wonderful piece of advice, perhaps you should consider heeding...


by IQ 145 
on Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:02
#1117296

 You need a new hobby that doesn't involve typing. It's not very helpful to babble when you don't know anything.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:49 | Link to Comment SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

The control rods plus the fuel has a very specific geometry to prevent the criticality fission reactions (basically everything is very long skinny tubes/cylinders).   The best analogy is a box of straws.   Some of the straws have fuel.  More are moderators.

During a reactor meltdown the fuel goes from a skinny rod surrounded by other moderating control rods to one lavalike / playdohlike lump of radioactive molten metal at the bottom of the reactor.   Criticality starts up pretty quickly and then it proceeds to melt through the bottom of the reactor vessel.

 

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:00 | Link to Comment IQ 145
IQ 145's picture

 The IAEA are universally regarded as asshats in the nuclear industry; they have no reason to be making remote controll guesses from Vienna; other than their political agenda; get some face time; etc. the usual crap. Nothing is going critical; we have temperature readings which are very moderate; alll the control rods are inserted as has been stated one-thousand nine hundred and thirty four times so far; starting on day one. Residual heat sources are decaying, temperatures are dropping, the excitement is over. With reference to trying to get people excited about the Iodine in the ocean; let's all try real hard to remember that radioactive iodine has a half life of 5 days; in a month it'll be all decayed; eg. no more radioactivity. The ocean is a great place for it to spend its last month; it's out of the way and it won't bother anybody.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:02 | Link to Comment Ethics Gradient
Ethics Gradient's picture

Lewis?

edit: Forgot to say thanks for your info

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:10 | Link to Comment Rogerwilco
Rogerwilco's picture

@IQ145

OK minimal genius, how do you explain, two weeks after the "shutdown" and flooding, temperature readings in one reactor are still over 300C?

Nobody knows the real situation in those reactors. From what I've read it is far removed from normal or stable.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:42 | Link to Comment IQ 145
IQ 145's picture

 300 C is a very moderate temperature; the residual heat is from fission products that are decaying; this is a well understood subject; you can find out about it from Google. Notice this is not a temperature that weakens or melts any of the structural metals involved; including Zirconium. The Zirconium did react with high-temperature steam at one time; this is where the hydrogen came from. At the same time the Zirconium was "burned"; ie. badly damaged and weakened; some part of the core, inside the reactor vessel, "melted"; (drooped, slumped, whatever). This high temperature event was stopped by venting steam.  "soon" after shutdown, there was enough residual heat, not from a fission chain reaction, to "light" this zirconium in dry steam reaction; since then the available heat has steadily decreased, as it must due to the on-going decay of the fission products. The very moderate temperatures now available are not in any way due to a fission chain reaction. It's important to remember that Three Mile Island was a partial core melt-down, it was also a public health non-event. It was a media event. These reactors here have realeased "some" radioactivity along with vented steam; Chernoble is usually creditted with releasing about 50millioin Curies in a high temperature plume that rose very high and fast into the atmosphere, due to the very hot fire, and "felll out" on surrounding countries; and to some extent, world wide. This is a very very small event compared to that. There will be no further melting; no criticality. It is not as hard to understand the condition of the reactor as you imagine.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:16 | Link to Comment Paul Bogdanich
Paul Bogdanich's picture

It's the Cresium that is the problem not the iodone or the heavy particles.  The damn Cesium disolves and has bonds similar to potassium (behaves like a salt) and a half life of 30 years. 

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 13:07 | Link to Comment TomJoad
TomJoad's picture

I'm pretty sure the half-life of Iodine-131 is just over 8 days. Hopefully all of your vast, infallible "knowledge" does not have a built in 60% error rate.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 14:59 | Link to Comment That Peak Oil Guy
That Peak Oil Guy's picture

With a high enough IQ there is no need to check your facts.  ;-)

TPOG

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:29 | Link to Comment Millivanilli
Millivanilli's picture

Anytime I read a post that  refers to their IQ or wealth, I immediatly assume it is an inverse relationship.  eg 1/145  giggles... 0.0  

 

 

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:39 | Link to Comment PhattyBuoy
PhattyBuoy's picture

I think it is just a typo - as in 045 ...

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:39 | Link to Comment Dr. Porkchop
Dr. Porkchop's picture

I used to get re-criticality after my fuel rods were spent, but the old reactor is getting on in years.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:52 | Link to Comment Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

I'll guess that after numrous explosions and searing heat the configuration of the fuel rods is such that they can never be re-inserted.  And TEPCO knew this some time ago.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:52 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Dr. P, it happens to the best of us once we´re in our 50s...

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 13:17 | Link to Comment CH1
CH1's picture

LOL  

+1

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 13:21 | Link to Comment krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

Dealing with half-lives now? Maybe TEPCO needs to dump some Viagra on this puppy to get their rods straight, get proper insertion going, and their pumps flowing....

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:42 | Link to Comment TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

This will be great news for NFLX shareholders.

Recriticality, bitchez! It paints equities flourescent green!

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:42 | Link to Comment Gimp
Gimp's picture

No worries, fake market going higher...gives us a P, give us an O, give us a N, give us a Z and give us an I, what does it spell :

PONZI, PONZI, PONZI.....

 

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:53 | Link to Comment Gimp
Gimp's picture

Cramer or Lies-man  must be trolling the site today junking anyone who speaks the truth about the big PONZI...

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:43 | Link to Comment trav7777
trav7777's picture

Recritical where?  SFPs?  Reactor vessel?  Which one?

Piles of fuel pellets + non borated water = critical

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:06 | Link to Comment malikai
malikai's picture

Exactly my concern. But there is nothing but the bloomberg bullets on it nor is there anything on the IAEA site. "Recriticality" implies a core, but it seems #4's SFP may be empty of water. It's status is "unmeasurable".

It may be empty, or they may not have gotten any borated water in it.

We could have an SFP turn into a fast reactor. There's plenty of fuel to do it.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 14:41 | Link to Comment slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

must put on "junk me" T-shirt and say i appreciate the thinking, here, Z's.  few days past, i came across a piece online saying no one ever expected the core and the store of "spent rods" to ever go ape-shit at the same time.  who on earth coulda planned for such an event? 

this is for nuclear reactors which seem much like a vehicle designed with the gas tank almost directly above the engine.

when GE was designing these little bull-shit fuking toys, 2 of the design team RESIGNED due to the dangers that stemmed from the fact that the "treatment of the spent fuel problem" was inherently unsafe under certain scenarios.  i believe this was just about the time  that GE stole all those freaking pensions from their people, too!  strange that i would remember that while writing this...

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:56 | Link to Comment The Profit Prophet
The Profit Prophet's picture

Trav?.....what's your view on the fact that there's another plant with 4 more reactors located within 10 Kms of this shit-storm.  Is the unexpected loss of 10 nuclear reactors a bullish sign for the Japanese economy?

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:13 | Link to Comment trav7777
trav7777's picture

I haven't heard any problems with fukushima dai 2

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:26 | Link to Comment redpill
redpill's picture

Smoke was rising from one of the turbines at Daiini briefly earlier.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:28 | Link to Comment Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

... from an  AC 'switchboard' at Daini (Fuku - II) ... coulda been a large rat exiting the board ... fried and toasted now ...

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 13:53 | Link to Comment trav7777
trav7777's picture

smoke was rising from a penn plant the other day.

and smoke was also seen rising from a cigarette I lit a few minutes ago.  Not EVERY sighting of smoke is a full on nuclear meltdown.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 15:50 | Link to Comment malikai
malikai's picture

I read about it. They said it was a peice of switchgear in the turbine building.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:17 | Link to Comment tmosley
tmosley's picture

You should know better.  Of course it's bullish.  EVERYTHING is bullish.  This includes falling markets, because "people" will just BTFD.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:20 | Link to Comment Eally Ucked
Eally Ucked's picture

One question, if all of the pluming is gone or damaged how is it possible that reactors contain any water? Delivered by hoses?

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:45 | Link to Comment InfinityZero
InfinityZero's picture

Will the reactor blend ?

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:44 | Link to Comment jtmo3
jtmo3's picture

Who the fuck cares. BTFD and Rally On!

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:59 | Link to Comment werealldoomed
werealldoomed's picture

You're disgusting.

BTFD.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:17 | Link to Comment TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Yeah, asshole, this is a humanitarian crisis!

WTF!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

BTFD

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:46 | Link to Comment jtmo3
jtmo3's picture

I'm wallstreet doing gods work. Ridding the world of more useless eaters.

 

BTFD

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:47 | Link to Comment alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

More Critical = More to rebuild = More Bullish.

rally on....

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:54 | Link to Comment Count Laszlo
Count Laszlo's picture

Agreed! Game on.

Time to start making some serious money.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:46 | Link to Comment Count Laszlo
Count Laszlo's picture

I just can't take the pressure anymore! It seems the world is crashing around us. I have to relax, maybe it's time to see the doc and get something to calm my nerves, maybe something to help the fear and depression. Today, I'll just take some Bayer to get by...

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:46 | Link to Comment Rogerwilco
Rogerwilco's picture

Crack cocaine is always an option.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:56 | Link to Comment Count Laszlo
Count Laszlo's picture

Winning!

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:09 | Link to Comment Cdad
Cdad's picture

For us white trash folk, we just eat fluoride on crackers.  

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:49 | Link to Comment SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Dont worry, theyre already putting Lithium in the drinking water. 

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:52 | Link to Comment SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

Take two xanax pills and a few jaeger bombs and call me in the morning.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:54 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

That´ll do it.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:15 | Link to Comment dexter_morgan
dexter_morgan's picture

IF you wake up.....

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:19 | Link to Comment TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Do NOT take xanax with Jaeger.

Take it with Absolut.

 

And BTFD.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:58 | Link to Comment Dr. Porkchop
Dr. Porkchop's picture

Absinthe. It was all the rage in the cafes a few years back. Of course it takes a man secure in his person to readily admit to favoring the green fairy.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:01 | Link to Comment SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

Substitute absinthe for jaeger in a JaegerBomb .... that shit will BLOW your mind.

Green fairy juice is GOOD.

Of course, eventually you'll go nuts but then that might be a coping mechanism in today's world.

 

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:35 | Link to Comment TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture
The Nuclear Reactor Cocktail Ingredients Instructions
  • Mix absinthe and italian soda in a cup, stirr. Add sugar cube, lemon juice, then Ice, stirr until sugar is completely dissolved. Last add tonic water, enjoy!

    VERY IMPORTANT: I gave it the name "nuclear reactor" because the tonic water reacts to the drink. Add it last, and make sure the glass is no more than 1/3 full. The tonic water reacts like a shaken soda, bubbling up until it is completely flat, but mixing the drink automatically, and giving you a cool visual effect.

  •  Hardcore drinkers and physicists can substitute plutonium and Mox for any of the above ingredients, especially if you're at Fukushima Daiichi.
Wed, 03/30/2011 - 13:33 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

I'd be more than happy to buy them a drink. Red wine would be more helpful though.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 22:23 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Before Absinthe was banned around 1912, you could drink your favorite brand from a green Uranium  glass!

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:45 | Link to Comment ugmug
ugmug's picture

I guess putting the reactors on ebay won't happen for awhile.

 

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:47 | Link to Comment sabra1
sabra1's picture

would be a bad day if another tsunami hit, pushing all that radioactive seawater far inland!

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:57 | Link to Comment Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

Since this melodrama may be going on for months, who knows what mother nature might do.  But the longer this remains out of control the more likely that mother nature will play a trick on us.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:47 | Link to Comment Ancona
Ancona's picture

It's all over but the crying.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:48 | Link to Comment Wu Qi Ming
Wu Qi Ming's picture

Owing to previous statements from these Nuclear experts, shouldn't "there might be" be read as "there already is"?

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:47 | Link to Comment Adavenditure
Adavenditure's picture

*Someone check me on this. I'm happy to be corrected.*

Also, the "spent" fuel rods can "re-criticalize" if nestled up next to each other, and not protected from the open environment?

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:59 | Link to Comment Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

Oy vey; if the mounting brackets/boxes that hold and separate the fuel rods are mounted in collapsed ... if the spacing distances have been violated ...

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:47 | Link to Comment economessed
economessed's picture

Scoreboard Update:  Team Nature/Physics:  3  Puny Humans: 0

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:59 | Link to Comment Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

It's becoming clearer that the puny humans starter has lost his stuff.  They have no relievers.  Gonna be a long day at the ballpark.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:31 | Link to Comment Ridgerunner
Ridgerunner's picture

On the contrary, the bull-pen seems to be in there pitching real hard.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 13:03 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

CNBS will come out with someone who will tell you the 10 run rule is in effect so you should BTFD

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 13:23 | Link to Comment MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

History shows again and again

How nature points out the folly of men

GODZILLA!!!

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 13:37 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Oh no, there goes Tokyo, GO, GO, Godzilla.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:49 | Link to Comment umop episdn
umop episdn's picture

Since the lies don't seem to be working to calm the soon-to-be-glowing sheeple, we'll use jargon we make up on the spot. WTF does Re-Criticality mean anyway? A sustained nuclear reaction is achieved with a critical mass of radioactives depending on conditions--the fission reaction is self-sustaining. In other words, stuff heats up. Hasn't that been the problem all along (besides the radioactivity)?

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:51 | Link to Comment TomJoad
TomJoad's picture

Close, just think several orders of magnitude more heat.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:35 | Link to Comment john2011neb
john2011neb's picture

Re-criticality is the same as "double dip" recession...it just means it never happened that everything is in recovery.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 13:39 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

A guess. It is critical when it is normally operating and turning turbines. Then the rods are inserted that shut down the reaction. One criticality on and off. Now the situation is not under control and things are exposed and touching things that should not be exposed and touching. The reaction starts again. Re-criticality.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:47 | Link to Comment TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Larry Kudlow just said while people will be critically maimed by Fukushima, we can only hope and pray to Baby Jesus that Japan's NAND sector will not be.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:37 | Link to Comment john2011neb
john2011neb's picture

Larry is worried about how this will affect the poor rich people.  Boy he fights the good fight doesn't he?

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:48 | Link to Comment Robslob
Robslob's picture

Based on this we should be revising Japan's GDP upward shortly...excellent news.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:12 | Link to Comment dexter_morgan
dexter_morgan's picture

Darn Keynsians......

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:49 | Link to Comment macroeconomix
macroeconomix's picture

If the control rods are inserted, what is left is latent heat. The only way criticality could resume is if the fuel is now no-where near the control rods.

 

I think the problem here is that at least part of the rods (and control rods) have melted into a pile of goo, but maybe the control rods could have burnt also? The more melting going on, the closer the mass of uranium clumps together. Criticality is when there is critical mass in a confined space causing an explosive chain reaction. *That* would be very bad.

I'm not sure how likely it would be though! Given that the blobs have not been deliberately engineered to form a critical mass.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:53 | Link to Comment TomJoad
TomJoad's picture

I think you are confusing "criticality" and "supercriticality" The rods were designed for the first,  ICBM warheads are designed for the second.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:05 | Link to Comment macroeconomix
macroeconomix's picture

Yes you're right.. sorry. V unlikely to get the latter.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:06 | Link to Comment TaxEstate
TaxEstate's picture

Is there such a thing as "double-dog supercriticality"?

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:19 | Link to Comment Paul Bogdanich
Paul Bogdanich's picture

No and there is no such thing as supercriticality either.  The differenc between a weapon and a reactor is primarilly the fuel composition and the initiaton / retardation devices.  In short the rectors can't 'explode" like a weapon as the fuel mix is all wrong but they can sure as hell sit there and smolder (if slowly reacting at 3000 C is smoldering) for a long time.  

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 13:02 | Link to Comment TomJoad
TomJoad's picture

Paul, I'm sorry but I don't think you actually completely understand what you are talking about. Please define "Supercritical mass" for the class. I am absolutely positive these reactors have already done a number of things that a bunch of really bright engineers said they "can't" possibly do. BTW, wasn't me who junked you.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 12:40 | Link to Comment MSimon
MSimon's picture

He probably means critical vs prompt critical.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:23 | Link to Comment Adavenditure
Adavenditure's picture

Dogspeed criticality!

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:59 | Link to Comment ummuhhh...
ummuhhh...'s picture

"not sure how likely it would be "

we haven't been getting many lucky bounces lately.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:52 | Link to Comment FranSix
FranSix's picture

Looks like the only way out now is continued waterboarding and get some answers out of those damned reactors.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:56 | Link to Comment Byte Me
Byte Me's picture

Remember Fukushima?

Now how come no enterprising fellow has got the T-shirt franchise on that yet?

WilliamBanzai7?

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:53 | Link to Comment truont
truont's picture

Shit.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 11:57 | Link to Comment Dan Duncan
Dan Duncan's picture

Does "Re-Criticality" mean the same thing as "Post-Pre-Criticality X2"?  If so, is this the same as "Post-Pre-Post-Pre-Criticality"?

Or, is this just a simple case of "Un-De-Criticalization" as I suspect it might?

Thanks.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 14:59 | Link to Comment slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

by george! i think you've got it!

i was against re-criticality before i was for it, just as i was against "moving the scale of amount of radiation harmful to humans" before i was for it.

call me a flip-flopper if you will, but one must always adjust to the "new normal" if one is to be an effective leader of sheep!!!

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:00 | Link to Comment davepowers
davepowers's picture

couldn't find the re-criticality article on Bloomy (may be on deep, remote, back page), but they did have this

The plant “continues to further stabilize,” Bill Borchardt, the executive director for operations at the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission, said during a briefing for the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee in Washington.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:01 | Link to Comment Rogerwilco
Rogerwilco's picture

The more melting going on, the closer the mass of uranium clumps together. Criticality is when there is critical mass in a confined space causing an explosive chain reaction.

An interesting physics/chemistry problem and possible experiment. I suspect no one has the 'nads to try it though. One correction, the presence of a "critical mass" doesn't necessarily mean there will be a nuclear explosion. Explosions require careful design and engineering. French scientists built a gizmo to study overheated fuel rods, but AFAIK nobody has ever tried to simulate what might be sitting at the bottom of those steel vessels in Fukushima. They are flying blind.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:21 | Link to Comment buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

It could mean lethal blasts of Gamma and a meltdown through the floor tho.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:02 | Link to Comment arnoldsimage
arnoldsimage's picture

let me speak some truth here. every reactor in japan and america could blow up and would not keep the dow from powering up. we have supernatural powers working our financial markets. if you're not long... you're wrong.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:22 | Link to Comment buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

Correct you are.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:40 | Link to Comment hambone
hambone's picture

If loving the Ponzi Dow long is right, lord let me be wrong and accept me as I am (w/ all my faults and PM's).

BTW - anybody notice we are now in about the 3rd innings of Wiemar German style hyperinflation???  This is the good part...enjoy.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!