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India Negotiating Purchase Of Remaining IMF Gold As Spot Hits $1,177/Oz
$1,200 here we come. Bernanke just got punk'd. Again.
From the Financial Chronicle of India:
India is open to buying more gold from the International Monetary Fund (IMF). It bought 200 tonnes for $6.7 billion on November 3. The Reserve Bank of India (RBI) may well buy
IMF’s remaining hoard of 201.3 tonnes on acceptable terms, which are
now under negotiation.
A government official said that the additional purchase would depend on
the “successful pitching by RBI”. “RBI is an independent body, and the
government does not interfere in its affairs. It will get the gold if
its bid is successful and at the price it has offered,” said the
official.RBI did not respond to Financial Chronicle questions if it was bidding
for the remaining IMF gold. The purchase of the first lot of 200
tonnes, RBI had said at the time, was a part of its foreign exchange
reserves management operations.
Responding to query from FC, an IMF spokesperson said the gold sale
process was still under way and “there is no fixed timetable for
completing the sale”. Its spokesperson further said that “the fund does
not wish to comment on discussions with individual members.”RBI has good reasons to further enrich its gold reserves. In just three
weeks it has been able to benefit by as much as $800 million on the
investment of $6.7 billion it made in buying 200 tonnes from IMF.Since 1999 RBI has been periodically valuing its gold reserves at
“prices close to the market”. It has not done so since it purchased the
gold from IMF.RBI bought the 200 tonnes at $1,045 an ounce. The transaction, from IMF
to RBI, involved daily sales that were staggered over a two-week
period, October 19-30, with each daily sale conducted at a price set on
the basis of that day’s market price.
etc.
What happens next, aside from full blown gold mania/panic, is anyone's guess. However, one thing that is becoming certain, is that Bernanke, in the immortal phrase coined by Snatch, is now proper fucked.
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And while their PM is here on a state visit. Like a Hallmark card from the "Fuck Your Greenbacks" category.
Why is IMF selling gold. And why does India get dibs? The IMF must know that its sales are not large enough to drive gold prices down. India is hardly the country capable of making the highest bid. The IMF has this gold on their books at something like $45/oz. Why liquidate now, into a strong uptrend? What are they doing with the cash - buying US Treasuries? Motive? Mode of selecting the buyer? "Here, you get the gold if you promise not to dump your dollar currency reserves"?
Just a thought, maybe India is preparing for war and then importing ammo/food with INR could be troublesome. In this scenario they need gold and nobody else wants it at this price.
India is a wise society. They wouldn't spoil themselves with such an incredible stupid thing like a war. That level of stupidity is only acceptable for Russians or US. And of course, they have enough of food and ammo. =)
Oh really. It won't be long before they are looking down the business end of a Peacekeeper missile (containing ten nuclear warheads). The missile will be aptly re-named The Goldminer because it will be used to get the gold returned to where it came from.
You make me laugh, kid!
But then you've probably never been a rocket scientist! And clearly lacking even basic geography and high school physics to figure this one out. Yeah, I used to work on these beasts - Q and CNWDI cleared. Look those up, son.
Just try launching a Peacekeeper missile at India - go ahead - see what happens. First it won't have enough fuel to even make it to India. And no, you can't just duct-tape some gas tanks onto the side.
Then there's the guidance systems which were designed specifically for a polar route to the USSR and no further. South of the equator? LOL! Try entering a negative latitude into the guidance systems - you will nuke Russia instead if it even accepts it.
You're funny kid but not in a good way. Just like the ignorant spew on the Military Channel. Your jingoistic, masturbatory chest beating is truly pathetic and sad. Every one else is the world is laughing at you. That's what pissed me off, son, because they are laughing at me to by association with twerps like you. You make actual American patriots look bad.
Sadly America has screwed itself with its own hubris - ancient Greek term for the cause of pretty much all tragic _fail_. We are fail. The Empire isn't striking back - it can't; we are too thoroughly screwed already. I'd wish it weren't true but there's no denying reality at this point unless you are taking some seriously hallucinogenic drugs - and you really need to share if you are - people are suffering.
India might get 200 tons of Tungsten bars instead based on IMF's reputation or lack thereof.
what a wise comment. how about the constant war they keep on fighting in kashmir? how about war they had in bangladesh and even skirmishes with china?
if u haven't noticed, india, mauritius and sri lanka anre all countries with a large amount of hindus living there. this is the culture in which gold is an important part of ceremonial weddings, hence there is always domestic demand for gold there. they are not "wise", they are.. what's the word. primitive.
The IMF has long done the 'carrot-stick' routine with gold, mostly 'stick'. Every time gold popped its head up above the agreed upon (by CBs) resistance, to make a break for the upside, the IMF obediently trotted out the shop-worn tale of impending gold sales. To 'help the poor' of course. Sure. And I am the Tooth Fairy. Honest.
India has been confirmed by a rep of the IMF as having been an official repository of IMF gold. I don't have the exact reference for you, sorry. The quote said that the amount India held was the exact amount they purchased from the IMF.
India's appearance at the White House, with full bells, whistles, regalia, specially built tent, the whole enchilada, especially after the rather futile China trip by El Pres, is rather breathtaking. The Indian PM seemed rather bemused by the whole gala.
But the Untied States needs to make nice now, because we are going to need someone, anyone, please? to be our friend. We certainly know how to make enemies.
As a side note, I work as a precious metals broker. The gold spot as of 6:27 a.m. CST is 1180.60. We have been selling like crazy and can hardly keep up with demand.
"The gold spot as of 6:27 a.m. CST is 1180.60. We have been selling like crazy and can hardly keep up with demand."
Ya'er right..What R U doing here? This place is for looser traders and shorts. When things are smooth people enjoy and NOT seek truth....
heheheh....well, Nony, maybe so, mebbe so.
I have ALWAYS been a lover and seeker of truth, even when it hurt like Holy hell.
Why am I HERE? At Zero Hedge.....? I don't notice the losers, I guess. We are all losers at something. I know next to nothing about CDS and IRS derivatives. I would lose my shirt at those. I don't day trade, I don't trade bonds, know next to nothing about them.
I get education almost everywhere I look. I am also a born skeptic, so I check everything out as I have time, which leads me to more new knowledge and more truth.
"The Truth is Out There"
My wait time for small delivery is a full week longer than just a month ago.
India is fully vested in the carbon credits trading scam! It's probably Tungsten.
India is a good place for the NWO folks to hide that shit.
Sorry Anon, but this is for Tyler...
You pathetic excuse for a man... posting this (in the immortal phrase coined by Snatch, is now proper fucked) long after Marla has turned in for the night!
Otherwise, fucking (long after Marla has turned in for the night) great post!
SRV-ES335
I can hardly believe the news every day...it's like I'm watching a movie.
Ain't it though?
If you made this stuff up, they'd say it was over the top and reject it in Hollywood.
yeah, except for the part at the end where the alien parasite pops out of Bernanke's beard. They'd be all over that.
"alien parasite pops out of Bernanke's beard."
That's not fiction, all GS employees must accept a vampire squid as their own personal savior before they can collect their bonuses. Sort of a cross between "Aliens" and "The Firm." Just doing God's work. You may leave GS, but the GS squid never leaves you.
You can leave but you'll be phoned home by switch back to AT@T stalkers.
The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense.
Nice!
Actually, it is just a set of glowing pixels on your screen. Those pixels are shaped in a form of English sentences along with little photos from a famous Hollywood movie. =)
This is getting interesting. How can anyone say gold is in a bubble? I'm gonna sit back with my gold, my glock, and some popcorn. This is going to be one hell of a show.
How can I say gold is a bubble? Because RBI is in good company. My wife's folks just bought gold for "protection." These folks are living breathing contrary indicators. Put their life savings into the market in December 1999 so they "wouldn't miss out." Sold SW Florida real estate in 2001 but bought it back in March 2006 so they could "fund their retirement" (they were mid-60s at the time).
When these people buy gold, gold bugs are proper fucked.
I'd say that grandma and grandpa are about to redeem themselves as savvy investors.
I'm sure they will. After all, this time is different.
Check this out, gold as money, $4-11,000 an ounce:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1336090735&play=1
Great video -- thanks for sharing.
I do think Rickards is talking his book a bit though. What he doesn't say is that for gold to reach those levels (his "8th grade math" argument), basically there would have to be a complete dollar collapse. I'm not saying that won't happen as things play out in the years to come, but let's just call a duck a duck by agreeing that gold at those levels implies US collapse and complete disarray.
Even the stinking corruption on the hill isn't strong enough to stem a rioting population. Hence, I'd argue that the brakes get put on at $2-4k levels, which I do think Rickards advocates rather well.
I was really interested in the idea of the dueling printing presses between China and the US, what Rickards termed a game of "chicken" as each country shorts its own currency. Rickards is very ironic, stating he doesn't want to be in that trade and this is why he will sit on the sideline with gold.
Me, I go, WTF? I understand the race to devalue, but I think I am missing something more here. This looks like mutual assured financial destruction. Worse than nukes maybe. As in, I must be wrong, this is not what is really going on...
Thanks for the post... Rickards spots are always great!
"if the S&P is up 30% and the dollar is down 30%, how much did you make"... the silence was deafening!
Think Andy missed the point just a bit though... it's about if (when) gold is traded as money... then all bets are off... buy it (or better, good miners) and relax and enjoy the fireworks (if that's possible with the mess it will cause).
It begins as the modern version of debt jubilee: all debt is forgiven by inflating it away, the pressing of the giant "Reset" button. It ends as competitive currency devaluation where each nation seeks to soothe its own populace with export-based jobs, leading to trade war then actual war when the society that lost the most during the devaluation decides they have nothing left to lose.
Yup, that's the plan.
disagree. the dollar/gold correlation doesn't have to always hold true. shocks, whether psychological, or based on supply, can cause delinking of generally correlated items. There have been some recent days of gold still going up on strong dollar recovery days. no reason that there cant be more of that. ive seen a lot of talk and reasoning estimating a 4,000-4,500 number based on a 40% fractional reserve gold standard.
Great quote: "If the market is up 30% and the dollar is down 30% what have you gained?"
A lot if you are buying stuff made in Asia. Nothing if you're headed to Europe. I can't stand how the Asians patronize the dollar. There's even talk about the Chinese devaluing their currency as a Black Swan.
Check out this one as well:
I propose to you that we can estimate that as a mere commodity today, gold is relegated to a trading range of between $700 and $5,000. As a currency, which it has not been since at least 1933, it would be range-bound between $4,000 and $11,000 according to Jim Rickards. [7] And set free to fill its ancient role as a wealth reserve, gold will rise to somewhere between $10,000 and $100,000 in today's dollars.
http://fofoa.blogspot.com/2009/11/gold-is-wealth.html
I wish my wages were denominated in rupees. I'd keep my savings in curry before my currency.
Raj Rajaratnam is that you? You can get ZH while inside a federal detention facility?
We need China to go on a silver buying spree, next. Or perhaps India, now that gold is too expensive for wedding season?
Wow... there's a lot of scary things that can happen at this point.
My impression is that with all of the IMF gold used up and now backing certain sovereigns, the battle of devaluating currencies is now upon us. India, if these purchases are finalized, have effectively told the rest of the world "it's on".
The one thing the Federal Reserve can ill afford at this stage of the game is uncontrolled dollar devaluation-- they've even hinted as much in recent engagements. This is a high game stakes game of poker, and the rest of the gambling world has gold as a backstop to raise the ante. The U.S. Federal Reserve has debt... and who knows what left at Fort Knox and the NY Fed.
Your move, Mr. Bernanke. Just remember that folding that hand is a viable option.
Assetman,
I posted a link above to some video commentary by a guy named Rickards. I'd love to know what you think. Some of it could be hyperbolic, but his comments about the US and China in a printing show down are really interesting. Never heard this take before.
This is a very interesting video you found, McCreant.
This really isn't too far off from the Albert Edwards comments about the Chinese announcing a yuan devaluation when no one really expects it. I think we are nearing the point where the conditions are in place for that to happen. Those that need the gold as a backstop have purchased all they can from truly viable suppliers.
The real question is how far does Ben Bernanke want to take this high stakes game? The Chinese need a strong dollar for investment purposes and a strong U.S. economy for their own exports. It's almost impossible to deliver both-- and right now, we are delivering neither.
So... if Bernanke wants to continue to play the game of burning the buck... the Chinese are going to play right along-- perhaps even more aggressively. More importantly, so will other Central Banks. In this environment, if the buck burns... it's not likely to be the "controlled burn" the the Federal Reserve desires. It's going to be a full clusterf*ck blaze coming from all directions. Gold in this environment is a really big winner.
The other possibility is the Federal Reserve-- or the Chinese-- will fold, and reverse policies that are destined for a train wreck. Rickards does a very nice job describing the analogy of the Soros-Brits battle, with the Brits evenutally saying "uncle". China stands to lose a lot from competitively devaluing (higher unemployment, hyperinflation, etc.)-- but the U.S. would get hammered with an out of control currency. Sovereign CDS would go through the roof.
My guess is that someone will "fold"... and the volatility event plays itself out. There's been an aggressive buying of Treasury new isses most recently, and market yields are at levels that rivaled the safety trade last fall-- extremely weird, considering where equity prices, risked-based bonds (or CDS spreads), and gold is trading. One primary reason is that the Fed is buying crappy MBS from the world, and the world is financing the U.S. deficit by proxy.
This can all end on a freaking dime. Boom! Volatility event. Imagine the U.S. halting MBS purchases and what those ripple effects would mean. It's freaky stuff, for sure... but I think the Chinese have hit the boiling point.
Wait for the DXY to break the 71 level... it's going to be a very wild ride. The question I ponder is: how long will it take for us to get there?
Thanks for your take. It is as scary/irrational/cowboy as I thought.
Well, we're under 75 now...almost a 52 week low.
We're getting there... also watch the U.S. sovereign CDS, and risked based CDS spreads as well. The former is already making a move higher; the latter perplexingly more stubborn.
Won't last.
I'm a layman learning this shit as it happens, so I haven't figured out what credit default swaps are yet...I'll take your word for it.
also gold hit 1179 a minute ago.
It all comes down to Mr. T. He decides the victor.
http://roflrazzi.com/2009/10/22/celebrity-pictures-mr-t-cash-gold/
China can cement their role as Asian Mercantilist with a two-pronged strategy: get their people to stock up on precious metals, and use their USD to buy JPY.
Where do you guys think this Yen strength has been coming from?
Ergo, Obama paying attention to the Indians this week asking them not to do it.
India just yelled "fire" in the packed dollar theater - again.
Do we need another Bernanke/Geithner "strong dollar" speech?
Whatever they want to do, doesn't matter. As long as there's no Sheila Bair strip tease.
Gee that would be motivating. I think the rest of the world recognizes that phrase as having the full faith & credit of a fart in a windstorm.
My word... that would be the funniest thing in the world.
Why not have Timmy spread the word on the Daily Show with Jon Stewart for special effect?
It is clearly a sign that china is not ready for gold standard where as India is rushing towards it. China refuse to bid probably for remaining quantity.
Scary thing is that china want to do 'something else' with its FX reserve. guess what?
I lived long enough to see India becoming richer than the US. If you told me that in the eighties,when I use to see the slums and people doing their morning things on the side of the street while taking the bus from Bombay(Mombay currently)airport to the hotel,I would have thought that you are nuts or a dreeamer.Of course India has always had a highly educated and bright science and tech people even back then. But hey,total holding of Indians of gold amont to something like $500 per capita(probably more now with the recent rise,and I am talking about widely held gold through society),compare that to the holding of 50k per capita of debt in the US(and probably more now) and you get the net result.
Just think, this Thursday, while people across the country are sitting at their dinner tables enjoying their turkey, many will be discussing the state of the economy and there's sure to be much chatter about gold. This "word of mouth" will likely help to strengthen demand because if Uncle Morty owns a few American Eagles, Uncle Frank's gonna be calling the local coin dealer on Black Friday. This is unless Congress passes a law outlawing the discussion of gold on national holidays.
Quick, buy more MBS crap and pump the markets higher!
Let's see. Front page headline high print in gold with bullish sentiment already off the chart and a central bank buyer. Maybe we'll finally see the capitulation move in the greenback along side the blow off in all things that glitter.
Let's see. Front page headline high print in gold with bullish sentiment already off the chart and a central bank buyer. Maybe we'll finally see the capitulation move in the greenback along side the blow off in all things that glitter.
Royal Canadian Mint Missing Gold: No Problem-o
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20091124/mint_mystery_091124/20091124?hub=Canada
Basically the mint is saying that the gold "shrunk" and that some sales were double counted.
They also said that the dog also ate some of it for dinner.
wtf...I thought 'he can't be serious about the shrinking'...but there it is:
Is this some technical mint terminology I don't know about?
when gold melts and tungsten doesnt, tungsten being the major component....strictly speculating
when the dollar melts its not as noticable.
I believe in Canadian English "shrinkage" means theft, heh.
wow, it really is a term. I learned some vocabulary today.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrinkage_%28accounting%29
that's "eh!"
In the rest of the world there's Triple
A but in Canada they have Triple A eh!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pm3F9piwnTU
It is the commonly used in the retail sector and refers to "lost" inventory. The main reason for shrinkage is as you said theft.
I do know that in the retail trade they refer to "shrinkage" as those goods which have been stolen by customers or employees. It's a nice way to say stolen:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrinkage_(accounting)
Someone should explain to them the principle
of conservation of mass...
unbelievable.........
Other theories abound. Sound sound more easonable than others:
http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/willie/2009/1124.html
Strong buying in the Asian markets every day this week. Watched it touch 1179 an hour ago.
Here in Thailand sellers flocked to Chinatown when it hit $900 last time, had to close the shops. A lot of very sad ex gold owners in Bkk!
Looks like man, at least one named Bernanke, will be crucified on a cross of gold after all. WJB must be rolling over in his grave.
As Assetman noted, someone has to give in. China and the US involved in a race to the bottom can only have one winner at most, and will probably have two losers. A collapse of exports in China eventually leads to a collapse in production, which leads to a collapse of civil order and the end of the Communist Party. The US is probably f'ed either way, since a collapse of the dollar does not help the trade balance in a country that imports 12 million barrels of oil a day and no longer makes many of the products its citizens are just now learning to live without...while a soaring dollar in a short covering rally decimates the stock and property markets.
India is making an investment, a statement on the dollar, and may also be forcing its main competitor's hand in China. India has secured, or is trying to secure, the last remaining large pile of gold available for sale, put added pressure on the dollar, and told China in no uncertain terms that if China wants to compete in the export arena it has to keep printing, or risk a popular uprising that leaves India as the world's greatest emerging economy.
The game(s) is definitely on.
Now if only that boat carrying the IMF gold passes by Somalia......
I think they're using alien matter-transporter technology to get the gold there.
this is what they want......all bankers want that, india cooperates with the usa, imf
Not to mention India has the largest private hoard of gold in the world. RBI's total Gold reserves are a pittance compared with private gold holdings in the country. I guess you learn which currency to trust (and hoard) when you are a 5000 year old civilization. With gold about to be reinstated to it's historical role of world reserve currency, India is set to be among one of the wealthiest countries on planet earth. Ya, ya...I know it has massive problems but that hasn't been always the case. Little known is the fact that before the British invaded and pillaged it, it was among the richest countries on earth accounting for a substantial portion of world GDP (16-20%); and it definitely looks like it's set to happen again. In fact, India's poverty and decline during the 20th century is an anomaly compared to it's record of being consistently wealthy during most of it's history. Let me just say that if I were an aspiring young entrepreneur today, I'd be headed to India.
The dowry system in India has insured a treasure trove of the yellow metal. It's mostly in gold. Her dowry was the womans share of the family estate. Trust me, even a middle class woman's cache would stun you. It is only sold if calamity strikes, otherwise they add to it with each generation. Loubotin's will last for a year, but a gold guinea will last for ever. Ask any Indian woman the price of gold and she will know, they will also prefer the Panda gold coin to the Kruggerand. 22K is as low as they will go.
Interesting! Krugs and Gold Eagles are 22 karat, which is nice if you have enough to store in tubes. I wish the premiums on 24K Gold Buffalos were lower.
Is it true that gold is often used to back loans in India?
Yes, money lenders have always been part of the landscape. It is only with this generation that banks are being recognized. a man's worth is based on his land holdings and longevity of his family line. Barter is alive and well. If there is a country that will survive the coming flame out, it's them. Old school all the way.
"they will also prefer the Panda gold coin to the Kruggerand."
My dealer has a premium on Pandas that doesn't appear on the other 999 fine coins, the Maple & Austrian Phil. Not a large amount, but noticeable.
Remember the scene in the movie Slumdog, where the kid jumped into the outhouse plumbing system to escape the locked door?
I hope the aspiring young entrepreneurs understand their fate will be similar.
India, LoL.
What does the movie title tell you? If the world's fancy financial sytem was to go in the crapper worse than what that kid had to swim through, what do you think is it going to take to survive? That's right..a store of value and the infrastructure already there, of the old system of money lenders and barter. BTW, gold is just one of the stores of value, has anyone calculated the diamonds and other precious gems they hold? Ever been to an indian wedding?
The Secret of Prosperity of Indian civilization during the last 5000 years : Indian villages always used food grains as currency and food grains unlike gold does not need one more exchange to realize value.
BTW
---
India is buying gold to cover local demand for gold to use as ornaments during the next wedding season and not to use it as currency hedge.
Indians use gold as ornament not as currency.
Consider that we are moving towards a global currency based on SDRs.
From a geopolitical perspective, India is very important and is an outpost that can be used to build an outpost for "defense" between the west and China/Russia.
It is possible that the creators of the world currency are positioning the SDR hard asset backing to countries that sign on to strategic initiatives. The gold to India is most likely strategically buying agreements from them - I am not sure the motivation is just monetary.
Just conjecture, but it is possible that once the SDR assets are positioned gold will go up dramatically in price (could be revalued up dramatically). I have been researching many of the miners stocks (gold & silver) and am very surprised that with record gold prices many of the large companies have poor earnings growth - a supply issue.
We are in a balance sheet depression and housing prices will drop further, but I am not sure if there will be enough gold supply to satisfy demand when the economic picture becomes clear. It's possible that gold has decoupled from the dollar as well, so a strengthening dollar may have little impact on the price of gold.
There is a rule whereby hard reserves are supposed to cover short term debt maturing for a country or it is a default risk - right now we have an estimated $3.5 trillion in debt within 12 months with less than $1 trillion in hard reserves. So, the US might want a higher gold price to cover the debt (it has the largest gold resesrves of any country).
Buying more silver and gold along with shares.
This seems reasonable. My thinking will tend to come from "the money side of things" and for them, it has to be politics. How to get us to shift things over to a global system, without uprising. Obama is publicly eating a lot of sh!t, but you wonder what is going on behind closed doors, what agreements were made long ago that bind him and us to a prewritten script where we are merely permitted to ad-hoc the details.
The only thing that throws things a little for me is our forever wars. That does not seem to be in the script. Just like mixing it up with Iran could shock everything, so could calling home all the troops and shutting down most of the foreign bases.
The SDR thing may be the plan, but there is some really shaky stuff going on that will make it tough to stay "on-script."
Thanks for your thoughts.
Wow! The question now is, how much will the next country have to pay to buy its gold? Because when the IMF gold is gone, there will not be that many organizations selling it anymore.
We may have a situation where the price of gold decouples from the inverse relationship with US dollar and it starts going up across every currency!
admin
http://invetrics.com
it's like selling marbles. when everyboy has some, you can only sell them cheap.
But if you have the last onces in the market and you know that new onces aren't comming in anytime soon...
Umm...where have you been for the past DECADE?
GOLD your indestructable always beleiving you are Gold.
Spandau ballet knew it. Now we can all dig it.plus lets face it Gold is very prity and shiny. Much nicer than stinky unclean disease ridden dirty paper.
A nice Christmas carol sung by a group of banksters, how cute of them:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzA9xaQaYEA&feature=player_embedded
What to forward to this Christmas...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7XBGOG46uM
A few weeks ago I posited that the FED is probably buying gold at the moment, its a nice idea with absolutely no backing (though time will tell).
But what I was trying to solve was how all the gold shorts from the ironically named goldman were going to be covered and then i thought about the OTC market. I wouldn't be surprised if goldman and JPM had their gold shorting underwritten by the FED/treasury and at the same time had gone uberlong gold in the OTC market and so will make a killing out of the gold price rise.
They are immoral but they aren't stupid - he who works out how goldman and JPM are going to make money out of the gold price rise stands to make an absolute motza.
ant
So if the IMF has all this gold where did it come from? Whom sold it to them and at what price..
Just when the collapsing currency s**t is about to hit the fan, interest rates will go to 5% and foreign money will pour back into US. Put the crisis off to another day.
When everyone else raises their interest rates, up they will go again. I reckon they will go to 10% by 2012. We are going to have a spiral round the world, the gold price will drop accordingly.
Some people's reputations are at stake here you know, much more important to save face than look after the workin' man. It is Hank, & Benny & Timmy we should be caring about.
It's going to happen slow. Just because a few people are ready for it doesn't mean it's time. It won't even become widely apparent that the collapse is happening and unstoppable for 6 more months.
Just when the collapsing currency s**t is about to hit the fan, interest rates will go to 5% and foreign money will pour back into US. Put the crisis off to another day.
When everyone else raises their interest rates, up they will go again. I reckon they will go to 10% by 2012. We are going to have a spiral round the world, the gold price will drop accordingly.
Except that were the Federal reserve to do this, the deficit would rocket by some trillionsas the interest payments roared upwards. As far as I can understnd matters, that is the problem the Fed cannot solve, easily at least.
The New York Slimes of all rags hard an article Monday showing that just a 1% increase in interest rates would cause an increase in interest payments of $350 billion annually.
The average maturity of Ts is now just 42 weeks.
There is no way out without massive pain.
IMF set the floor price of gold is 1177 now. Very interesting.
Bernanke needs to watch Scarface and learn the truth of "dont get high on your own supply"! :)
New ytd high for the Euro 1.5096. Dollar below parity vs. CHF (1st time in 19 ms)
Good thing that dollar depreciation has been "orderly".
Watch Dec Comex Gold delivery, perhaps, the largest fireworks ever.
:)
Is India buying pieces of paper or actual gold?
Sounds to me that the IMF wants to get rid of their gold as it is going to crash the market soon. India will get a huge hair cut but than that's life.
Hmm, DXY plumbing new lows but futures aren't rocketing.
What happens when genius is actually avarice?
Federal Reserve Endorses Communism for the Wealthy
There has been little or no clawback of the ill gotten gains from the people who caused the problem, but escaped with 100s of millions of dollars; there has been endless subsidies for the banks, but little hard-to-swallow medicine for the banking system.
My pet theory is that all of the anger about Health Care Reform is misdirected rage at the corrupt Bailouts. I don’t want to get too Continental on you, but the conversation in Europe I encountered repeatedly was the sheer perplexity at why people are protesting health care coverage for all. One fund manager said to me in Berlin, “You give trillions to rogue bankers, yet you have 40 million uninsured American. Why is that?”
My answer: I haven’t the foggiest idea why.
Let me be brutally frank: With George W. Bush AWOL during the crisis in 2008, it was Bernanke and Paulson who stepped into the void. But make no mistake about it — the chief architect of the massive bailouts was none other than former Goldman Sachs CEO and then Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson.
http://tinyurl.com/ylcby95
“You give trillions to rogue bankers, yet you have 40 million uninsured American. Why is that?”
So your solution would be, rather than to claw back the trillions, to "give" something to everyone? How egalitarian of you.
Yet again we see an article that says Bernakes is screwed because of a rise in gold prices. I still do not get why you people think he cares about gold's rise. Yes, I understand the concept of when gold rises, it makes fiat currency look more worthless. So what? Bernanke wants to lower the USD (we all know this) so why does he care what gold does?
Here are two reasons for starters:
1) Does he want interest rates to rise, or is he going to crazy lengths to try to prevent that?
2) Does he want the big banks to fail, or is he going to crazy lengths to make sure they do not? http://futures.tradingcharts.com/cotcharts/GD - the big banks are in RED.
Related to 2) = "And the most grotesque number of all [when you take out all the market-neutral spread trades] is that JPMorgan, all by itself, is short about 40% of the entire Comex silver market!!!"
http://www.caseyresearch.com/displayGsd.php?id=52
GS and JPMC and the rest of the Corleone family are gono get TOTALLY f'd as they are extremely short, just wait till they realize their losses and go long!! YEAH BABY YEAH
VIVA BOB CHAPMAN
GS and JPMC and the rest of the Corleone family are gono get TOTALLY f'd as they are extremely short, just wait till they realize their losses and go long!! YEAH BABY YEAH
VIVA BOB CHAPMAN
attention: Karl Denniger.....attention: Karl Denniger...
door stops are available at your local pm dealer near your home in sunny niceville......
India has $285bn of forex reserves. This new purchase - 200 tons, if it happens - will be worth $8bn - taking the RBI gold position to $26 billion. It's still got $259 billion left - of which, if they paid the entire amount in USD they'd be left with about $254 Billion USD. The gold buy isn't as big as it seems.
Anyone think it's the IMF comments alone that are driving the price higher? Damn people. If you have gold and India wants to by it...do you want to sell at these prices or higher prices? Let's face it...india is going to get fucked in these transactions. They keep buying at higher levels. Good for the IMF....they are screwing an entire country into believing they are making good investments.
How many of you have ever believed it when a broker called and said. YOU HAVE TO BUY THIS....IT IS GOING TO THE MOON. I know it is at highs, but you NEED to buy this and buy it now? No one??? Why not??? Well....that is what the IMF is currently doing with their supply of gold. They are getting the best price for it. If India is dumb enough to buy it.....SOLD TO YOU. And for all you people going along for the ride.....watch out if India changes thier mind.
sarcasm I hope?
Central Banks will buy at any price. Unlimited amount of paper chasing a limited amount of Gold. Everyone who is anyone is trying to get their hands on that Gold!
I don't think that's sarcasm.
Folks, you must realize that this dollar rout/gold rush assumes a stand-off (US vs China) that is assumed to last in perpetuity.
It is not.
This standoff could end tomorrow. Right now, Uncle Ben WANTS to bailout his member banks by buying as much crappy debt as possible with printed "money".
Bernanke also WANTS interest rates in the U.S. to be as low as possible so (1) his pigmen can earn a spread with free money to "earn" themselves out of this mess; and (2) so the Treasury can raise enough debt to finance massive deficit needs.
Bernanke NEEDS the U.S. dollar devalution process to be slow and controlled in order to pull off this major heist. Bernanke DOES NOT care about paper asset prices, like riasked based bonds or stocks. He DOES NOT care about the price of gold. He DOES NOT (obviously) about a strong dollar policy.
What he DOES CARE about are his member banks; he DOES CARE about out of control dollar devaluation; and he DOES CARE about higher unemployment (or the masses will be coming with pitchforks).
Simply put-- Bernanke WILL NOT get what he WANTS.
What to keep printing money and buying crappy MBS? This dollar will UNWIND quickly; the Chinese are going all-in, and those on the sidelines (India, Switz, etc) will watch gold as their backstop. Others (Greece, Dubai) will get caught in the vortex.
Want to stop buying MBS? Asset prices will collapse, the financials won't be protected, insolvencies will be announced-- and unemployment goes much higher. Gold will go down with a USD spike upward, but not as much as some would expect. The volatility events here a potentially large, becuase of how some of these risk assets were bought. "Bagholders" will get reamed here, bigtime.
So what is it, Uncle Ben? Gonna blink?
You should post as a contributor Assetman. I'd like to see folks read this and respond. This is an old thread and will not see so much traffic. But that is me.
You no doubt have other things to do with your time besides blogging. And you never know, you might become obsessed and that would be a problem, wouldn't it?
:-D
More than you would ever know, MsCreant. :)
i read it, 04/21/2010.
I started buying gold when it was around 350 an ounce.
That was in 2003 or so.
Here it is end november 2009 and gold is 1180.
You know what? I don't think the price of gold actually fluctuates at all. I think the value of all other goods and currencies fluctuates in relationship to gold.
So even if they cause a short term dollar rally by raising interest rates and the price of gold in relationship to the dollar goes down, it doesn't really matter.
One ounce of gold will still buy you a nice hand tailored suit.
Gold is gold, you idiots.
Maybe were being tag teamed by china and India.
China defaults on derivatives.
India buys the gold.
JPM goes AIG (unless jamie dimon becomes treasury secretary before this).
Think about it JPM's derivatives and gold/silver shorts all explode at once. Then we have counter party risk taking down GS BAC C AIG(again) etc. Runs on banks, FDIC BROKE, dollar to the moon. Effectively devaluing china and india currency. They can then use their dollar holdings to buy up companies, commodities, etc.
Or I'm just crazy.
So, when it will burst? At $1430? =)
"India is dumb enough to buy it.....SOLD TO YOU"
Is that you, Denninger?
No it is not Denninger...but anytime someone would compare me to him, I owe you Thanks.
Normally I would never respond to anyone named anonymous.
So - quick question for the Assetmans & Gordon Gekkos of this thread.
I am J6P. My parents are J6Ps. We all want to go into physical PM possession.
What is the best/safest play? Maples? Kruggerands? Pandas? Kitco bars? NWT Mint coins/bars?
This applies to both silver & gold, as the family is convinced that silver = barter, gold = wealth preservation.
Storage not a problem. Rural location, secure facilities. Many thanks, you guys rock.
What is the best/safest play? Maples? Kruggerands? Pandas? Kitco bars? NWT Mint coins/bars?
I'm not terribly particular, so long I get coins with .999 fine and 24K. Right now, I have Maples and Kangaroos in my stash. Won't own Kugerrands or Eagles.
More important in my mind is finding a broker-dealer you can trust.
Is it a bubble if everyone is saying it is?
I worked for JPM and I remember when oil was >$100 we were going to Delta, UAL, CAL, etc. and trying to persuade them to lock in hedges. In other words, at the time, we weren't thinking oil was a bubble but was here to stay. The same can be said for the housing bubble. The majority of people were convinced it was going to infinity.
With every move up in gold, the word "bubble" becomes used more and more and skepticism of it grows. For those skeptical gold bugs outhere, remember that this is EXACTLY the type of reception you should have expected when you initially bought it. Surely no one could have expected gold to creep up to $2,000 without CNBC, Drudge, Mom's, Dad's, et al catching on. Face it, your contrarian call has now turned into a momentum play.
Yes there will be a pullback if/when the DXY reverses. But that could be 20% from now, putting the reversal back to where we are today.
The floor has been set. Even if it drops to $700, there isn't much out there which will make me want to panic sell my holdings. It would take a seriously desperate response from the U.S. government to do such a thing and at that point I don't think I'd want to convert my gold back to dollars.
Who cares if india changes their mind, china is sitting there gagging...
Kinda like watching your kid grow up...makes you both happy and sad at the same time.
What is the IMF going to do with the money it receives? What is India using for a currency to buy the gold? US Dollar?
If gold is going to 1,300 - 2,000 dollars per ounce why doesn't the IMF wait for a while or do they know something that we don't?
When Nation States Panic, next on FOX!
Has anyone noticed that quite a few Indian bankers and policyfolks have been inducted into IMF in last few months. Noise maybe?
If they buy the remainder at any price from $1120-$1160 then you can say good bye to the $1100 dollar range and witness a parabolic frenzy to the $1500-$1600 range or higher.
India will buy it--guaranteed.
They are just haggling to get the best price.
But they will buy it.
While doom and gloom are likely, most currencies will be slowly devalued as the world is very interconnected now. They will be diluted, and leveraged assets should fall while basic goods like food and shelter become much more expensive.
As people struggle more to afford surviving, they, as a whole, will sell gold to raise money to buy food/shelter. Unless the government fails completely, gold is useless for anything other than a trade.
It's just that I have not yet personally read of any period in human history when gold wasn't worth something. Plus, my mind keeps going back to the novel, "The Good Earth".
India is buying Gold with USA's tacit understanding. US desperately wants to weaken its currency (while talking strong). It talks strong, so as people dont trash its debt.
OTOH, it needs it to be weak, so that there can be some inflation, and asset price stabalization.
India is US's only friend now. They risk appreciation of Indian rupee, but are helping US weaken their currency. You may ask, how does India buying gold help USA weaken its currency? Well, it is just psychological...as is everything in the market...it puts fear into other CBs that dollar may not be ultimate afterall, and hence they have to manage risk by selling their dollar holdings.
The number of Indians in high profile IMF jobs is increasing? Or was I mistaken? Too much Perkins lately I guess.
Friends @ ZH,
Please get your facts right. The 'Financial Chronicle' is an online magazine/ blog which shows opinions - just like any other blog.
I do have friends in Jewelry business and it is not going great for them - all or most of them feel they have missed the chance to invest before. This will most possibly result in a vertical channel - a 'breakout' and that is when we have to pull out.
Even gold imports for individual/ investment consumption is down in India - http://www.commodityonline.com/news/India-gold-imports-may-plunge-to-100...
The fact is, gold was a way of life in India, an inflation hedge or a protector of wealth for many centuries but not when the price is at a relative peak.
~rackgen
Gold is not in a bubble. Gold is rare compared to paper.
There is no other place to store value. Plain and simple. Government debt notes are low yielding, high risk. Even with a gradual increase in interest rates, the game is up. People still seem to believe that the value of paper money will come back.
The run on gold has just begun imo. We'll see $2000 soon next year. The savings accounts will be depleted for the sake of gold bullion purchases. Banks are in shitload of trouble all over the world. Money is going worthless.
Every extra penny in gold. That way my kids will have some sort of quality of life. The rest will suffer.
zero hedgers all... a Q.. if gold goes up 30%.. an the dollar slides 30%.... whatugot?
Wealth preservation.
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we are too thoroughly screwed already. I'd wish it weren't true but there's no denying reality at this point.
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