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India Offers To Pay For Iran Oil With Gold
It appears that gold isn't really a currency... until it is. The Economic Times reports that India is attempting to ensure steady crude oil supplies from Iran. In doing so it is doing everything it can to pay Iran in a way that avoid loopholes associated with recent US sanctions. And the stunner: "India could settle crude oil import transaction using gold in the short term, while efforts to resolve the deadlock continue." But does Iran realize they can't possibly eat all that gold? Or that The Fed has no way of diluting to oblivion? Or that, unlike the dollar, it is currently not involved in a global race to bottom in which every central bank will have no choice but to print ever more of its linen-infused currencies? Something tells us that the answer to all three is yes.
From Economic Times:
India is determined to ensure steady crude oil supplies from Iran and is even considering settling payments with gold in the short term before the two countries agree on a mutually accepted currency and a bank to clear the transactions.
"We have written a letter to NIOC ( National Iranian Oil Company )) asking it to suggest a bank where US sanctions are not applicable," a government official involved in the matter said requesting anonymity.
Another official said India could settle crude oil import transaction using gold in the short term, while efforts to resolve the deadlock continue. An Indian delegation, including officials from ministries of external affairs, finance and petroleum, will visit Tehran next week to thrash out the payment issue, officials said.
Oil industry officials are keenly awaiting a solution as India imports 80% of the 184 million tonne of crude oil it refines every year, and Iran accounts for 16% of these purchases, making it the second-biggest supplier, after Saudi Arabia.
India's crude oil imports from Iran faced an impasse after the Reserve Bank of India declared that a regional clearinghouse that involved the Iranian central bank could no longer be used to settle oil and gas transactions between the two countries.
It appears that it was the United States which itself precipitated this decision to seek potential alternative "currencies"
Several analysts believe India had acted under the pressure of the United States, which has lauded the RBI's action. Last year, India had protested Iran's remarks on Kashmir, and earlier, India had voted against the country's nuclear programme in a resolution of the International Atomic Energy Agency.
Domestic oil companies faced the crisis after the Reserve Bank of India (RBI) discontinued a settlement through the Asian Clearing Union (ACU) for crude oil payments to Iran. ACU, an initiative of the United Nations Economic and Social Commission for Asia and Pacific (ESCAP), was established in 1974 at Tehran for promoting regional co-operation. It facilitates payments among member countries for eligible transactions on a multilateral basis. The model helps in economising the use of foreign exchange reserves and transfer costs.
Ironically it is the US' desire to maintain political hegemony that may just be the catalyst that forces other countires to realize that transacting in a currency which is less and less deserving of a reserve moniker, is greatly overvalued.
h/t Mike Krieger
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everything old is new again
This story for me raises a topic discussed a bit here on ZH about whether or not India took physical possession of the +/- 200 tonnes of gold they bought from the IMF in late 2009.
If they did not take possession, will they be able to pay Iran with paper gold?
If Iran and India do oil for (physical) gold trading, then we would likely find out soon.
Comments?
First issue that came to my mind too
AIG getting monkey hammered and down 6%. X down 10% in the last few days. Where the fcuk is Spalding_Smailes???
I feel this is worthy of your attention:
http://tfmetalsreport.blogspot.com/2011/01/tea-with-blythe.html
The RACE has started. No country has enough Gold to backup their currency.
Who ever declare first that their currency is backed by the the Gold will Have to devalue and will be the winner.
YOU CAN'T EAT GOLD, bitchez
But apparently you can buy oil with it. Question is, other than WTI, just how long will that remain true in dollars?
...and food is oil, therefore, you can eat gold
REAL question is, WHEN will they ALL ask GOLD FOR OIL
That will be the "rapidly downloading brownware in the trousers" moment for the Anglo-American oligarch crowd. Of course the decadent Saudis will keep taking Uncle Sam's toilet paper (until the they're overthrown). What will the US do then? Invade Canada for its oil?
I do.
They trade oil for gold, you can eat oil, you do everyday. You eat oil. Oil eater! So while you are eating oil, they trade oil for gold. Gold wins!
Lennon H, the funny thing is that your statement is actually true for all of us. We do eat oil. Only it looks like a fruit or a vegetable or some such.
Standing joke with my Fruit/Veggie vendor. I always ask him where the produce I'm buying comes from. 60% of the fruits on his stand are from outside India. Quite stunning for a so-called agrarian economy eh? Apples from Washington/Cali/NZ. Pears from South Africa. On and on. Shiny, tasteless fruits and vegetables, coming to us from lands far far away.
So yup, we're all oil eaters, most just cannot see it.
ORI
http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2011/01/05/stairwell-sigtar/
You can't wipe your ass with gold.
Hehehe, he doesn't know how to use the three shells.
Rich guys use shells made of gold.
Thanks for clearing up what my wife got me for Christmas. I couldn't figure it out.
http://www.magicsale.com/image/GoldShell2.jpg
That is the "Great American Shell Game" brought to you by Ponzi Bros. (otherwise known as The Federal Reserve).
True! But you can buy oil with it and everything else including food.
i don't know why Ben doesn't offer them Bank of America stock...i mean, he's throwing billions into using it to jack stocks higher...
CNBC told me if BAC goes higher, so does the market...
let's offer that to the Iranians.
Prosperity? Tell that to the millions on food stamps. Tell that to the moms and dads who stay up at night because they have trouble with the utility bills.
"The FED has given us prosperity."
"Fractional banking is a good thing, folks. So is inflation."
HamyWanger, you are just like HarryWanger, only with a sense of irony. Well done!
why don't you guys cut it out with all these parodies already
Alright Harry, break time is over. Those Big Mac's aren't going to microwave themselves.
Nice opinion. Did you borrow it from Glen Beck or was it Hannity? How does a gold standard promote inequality...you know what - nevermind - you're just a troll spouting off irational things with no rhyme or reason as to why you think so. If you were required to give a detailed and constructive answer I'm sure you would NOT post anything at all.
The real questions is...
Should man play in a society run by laws of nature - limited supply on resources, such as a gold standard - where gold can't be printed...or should man play by another group of men's biased rules and regulations (arbitrary bullshit printed on thousands of pages of "bills" and "laws") with little oversight that forces the masses to absorb their fuck ups?
Also - how does a gold standard promote racism - there are no Mexicans, Blacks, Chinese or Indians on our national currency - the USD. What's up with that? How racist!
Pointer, you are wasting your time reasoning with type like Wagner, Johnny Bravo, etc. They are intellectual virgins, not wanting their views tained by information, muddled by reasoning. They are going to remain ignorant and proud of it. Let them be; to repond is to encourage them. Dont even junk them, that's encouragement too. I guarantee you that if nobody responded at all to guys like this, they would go elsewhere.
LOL - you are cracking me up "Hamy"!
I don't think anyone else got the joke... So I wonder where is the real Harry? :-)
he accepted a job at kitco...
What I've read about Loughner, he's a pot smoking Left Wing nut job.
Where are you reading this? I've seen several folks make this claim but theres' never been anything to back it up.
Friend, where did you get the idea that these guys who love to talk about left wing nuts, etc.,
feel the need to have a basis for the assertions? They dont follow the traditional rules of debate, reasoning, research. Did he back it up?
Interviews with Loughner's aquaintances consistently paint him as left wing...google will probably give you a few examples.
Or he's a tea party, gold bug, gun totin' Right Wing nut job. Take yer pick. Either way, the only part that fits is "nut job".
He was. What they are not telling you on Faux news is that his drug dealer started requesting payment in gold. He then lost it because he only had fiat currency and vowed a payback.
Loving it Hamy, you have Harry down to a tee...
what the hell happend to his comments??
Just when I think I've figured you out (entertainment inserted by Tyler) you pop off with this stuff. Hmmm, trying to sway a couple newbies to this site back to the dark side? Man, that would be a waste of tax dollars. Anyway, thanks for the grins! Edit: Ahhh yes! The Hulk got it. Ok, thanks again for the grins. Too freakin' funny.
I offer the pair of mutually contradictory statements above as proof of Harry's insanity and lack of qualifications to engage in rational, intelligent discourse.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
wanger you're such a fucking troll asshole, shut the fuck up dude
I just wonder why many bother to set an alarm clock in the morning.
is this satire?
If you can't properly question sincerity. Then you're gong to be confused by alot of things that go on around here. If you have the functioning equipment to question sincerity then peoples blood and guts and being hurt is going to make your job difficult.
I'm still chuckling about how Hamy got 40 junks.
Folks are gullible, but the sad part is:
1. They "invest" in markets.
2. They get to vote.
Save us all....
Reedin' comprehenshun...tres difficile, mai non?
Fuckwad of the first order signing in...
We read you loud and clear Sir, loud and clear. And in other news Mr. HamWang of Washington DC is said to have been found w/ a 100oz LBMA good-delivery gold bar shoved up his asshole... Shame was, it turns out it was only tungsten...
Cheers mate and all the best to you!
Yours Truly,
Nathan Wind
perhaps, they might pay with gold paper certificates...? may be???
'Not Owning Gold is a Form of Insanity'
http://www.cnbc.com/id/40997445
If you read the comments there you will see how far Au and Ag are from bubbles.
Locks on your doors are a barbarous relic, with no place in a free and enlightened society. I guess you have such faith in your fellow man that you don't think you need that form of restraint either.
External Debt per capita (as of December 2009):
United States - $43,758
India - $187
Iran - $253
Who's poor?
I don't know anything about Iran, but I have noticed that countries with lots of oil and very little debt always seem to make it to the top of our enemies lists.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt
Psst. Don't wake me up from my slumberous delusion... I love to talk smack under the influence so that my self esteem won't erode....(Sheeple Circa 2011)
You do realize that this country has the god given right to create money out of thin air, don't you.
+1
Foreign policy in a nutshell
To be useful, I'd think that debt per capita number would need to be compared with income per capita. So, ratio of income per capita to debt per capita. I'm not sure we'd come out so well, but just putting nominal figures up there is pretty disingenuous.
barbarous relic - oh yeah printing money out of thin air will be viewed upon in the future as saving mankind.
You fairy, you child!
Any commoditiy has intrinsic value, go back to your ECON 101 class.
Enlightened society?
Please show me one!
what free and enlightened society are you talking about?
When one OPEC member decides to transact in gold, will the others follow closely behind?
You know, I wouldn't be surprised if the KSA has a nuclear weapons program. If A.Q. Khan could do it with so few resources, why not the Kingdom?
Bingo. And this is from a supposed "ally" that both the Dems and Repubs have been pushing, but none more so than Hillary Clinton.
How many H1's and L1's are we bringing in again this year?
They won't be as close behind an the U.S. Armed Forces..
The U.S. pretty much told the world what would happen if the USD hegemony is threatened..
Everyone is forgetting that this makes Iran the #1 threat to America, and thus our next war of "liberation".
I am so overjoyed that we are going to be spreading democracy and freedom in Iran soon.
Hey man! Stop making fun of our number 1 export :-)
I can see the navy seal briefings now.
Our mission is to seize this drug gold from these terrorist operating out of Iran. It's totally not oil gold it's drug gold. Totally.
+1
Weapons of Mass Destruction?
Sidestepping the bankster middleman would be considered so.
They hate us for our fiatdom.
Gold from IMF -> India (and possibly others soon) -> Iran
US invades Iran, then Gold and Oil -> US
Seems like the plan to me.
FOFOA makes more sense every day IMHO.
Didn't India just finish buying a few tons of gold from the IMF?
Yep, I remembered correctly:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aa6oc6Wz9Ftg
+1
It will be interesting to see if they buy oil with physical or IMG gold chits
Just what I was wondering above. IMF chits, though?
No, no they buying GLD, if they have enough of them they can redeem them and get physical. Or they will pay in GLD shares and Iran will redeem them.
Yes, the did, but did they take delivery? I think not; it's in IMF allocated storage. Good look getting it, if it exists and if it exists free and clear. And Fort Knox?
Don't know. If they didn't, I suppose this Iranian Oil deal would provide them with a strong impetus to do so though.
I wonder if they've taken delivery yet, or if it will now be quarantined by TPTB?
lawrence1: Oops, my bad, you basically beat me to it.
India is on the brink.
One reason the US ended the gold standard is that they could not refrain from consuming oil, meaning they would run out of gold before they extinguished their taste for oil.
So they switched to a credit based economy so they could get as much oil as they wanted; consuming with debt is much more comfortable.
Bad, bad. Always a bad situation when one has stuff that another vitally needs.
The story has it that the British ran out of silver to pay for their addiction to tea. Well, the Chinese remember how it all finished.
I like your brain.
your gay!
his gay is what?
His gay brainz! Not to be confused with Euphoria. :>D
There is always enough gold. Prices just change to fit changes in circumstances.
Governments sever the gold link to secure more funds for themselves.
TPTB just won't learn, will they? I happen to agree with your comment .
Well, history showed there was not enough silver for the British and when the US saw their gold reserves melting like butter in a hot fry, they switched to a credit based system.
There is enough gold in the world, and enough gold in circulation, but not necessarily enough gold in a particular government's vault to fund said government's military adventurism.
Apostate, living, tmosley,
All correct. There is plenty of gold. Just have to pay the price.
Yeah, I love it when goobers say "Oh gee whiz there's not enough gold to have a gold standard anymore". Duh, it depends on the price.
Agree there is plenty of gold.
Disagree with a gold standard:
fofoa.blogspot.com
I'm not saying a gold standard would be a utopia. I'm just saying that the argument that there isn't enough gold for a gold standard is bogus.
A bond is a promise to pay. A bill is a promise to pay. One is as good as the other only the bill benefits the people and the bond benefits the bond holder.
The true power of the bond market is not that it allows broken promises to pay as much as simply printing the currency. The true power of the bond market is it allows you to siphon off the broken promises into a industrial military complex and allow you to simply kill the people you broke the promises to.
"The story has it that the British ran out of silver to pay for their addiction to tea. Well, the Chinese remember how it all finished."
Didn't that end up with ships harbored in china ports passing out opium? I guess fair is fair addictive caffeine molecules for more addictive opium molecules.
Why do we have drugs on this planet? Why? What is the purpose of all these plants able to addict people. Addicted people are not in control of themselves and are able to do things they wouldn't do if they had control. More bullcrap to write in the akashic records.
People have a delusional superiority complex. Plants were here and evolved first. They have more DNA then people. They produce scents, colors,and seeds that animals use for food and/or pleasure.
What better way to continue your survival then to get something addicted to what you produce?
I'll take my chances with THC over most big-pharma drugs.
That's the problem with pot smokers. You all will just stand around and cry while people burn your precious plant. Now crack heads. They'll grab a baseball bat and put up a fight. Pot needs to find a better way to influnce it's protectors.
The above was just a mental exercise of rambling and meant to be humerous.
I'm sure monsanto foods can make a better pot with more violence enhancing chemicals.
+ whatever an ounce of non-GMO BC bud goes for these days.
I do hope that India realizes the "third rail" nature of this issue and how very bombed, sprayed, and nuked they will be as a result.
But as brinksmanship from the central entertainment network, BIS, it works.
Time to supply Pakistan with a few more nukes. Oh, and fund the militants in the north to create just the right amount of destabilization... That'll teach you kids in Dehli how we play ball.
If you need some aerial drones to stave off the nutjobs immediately to the west -- we'll sell you some of those for gold, btw.
The new Axis of Evil is Iran AND India. Who could have guessed?
i guess the I's have it then.
Will Iran accept GLD certificates for convenience?
Seriously, one little old 1 oz gold coin = 15 barrels of oil approx.
Nice.
How much oil does it take to mine and refine 1 oz of gold? What's the ROI? It doesn't just jump out of the ground.
Pumping out 3 barrels of oil is effortless (in an existing field).
One oz. of gold requires the digging, moving, crushing, and processing of 5-30 tons of rock (depening on the mine).
India is giving its gold away to Iran with this deal.
+ $55,000
India should use ANY fiat for as long as possible. Unless they are paying with above observer called IMF chits...
Yep. Don't you believe for a second that the Indian people will allow gold to leak out of the country. They understand it and what it means. It'll only be paper.
theres is no real benefit to this scheme, and no indication if it will rise or depress the gold price.
this is akin to the usual "oil for euro's" quackery that emerges whenever the powers that be require new juice to the price of WTC.
im not convinced India posseses sufficient quantities of gold to make any enduring agreement of gold for oil, never mind at what price point.
www.bubbleboytrader.com
Give it time.
Also, you might want to check India's current consumption of oil vs. their gold reserves, and also check on how much gold is privately held in India per capita (hint: It's a lot compared to some other oil consuming nations).
The gold price has nothing to do with this transaction.
What is important is that it allows for both sides to create long-term contracts without either having to worry about currency depreciation transferring wealth from one side to the other. In other words, they are using a superior currency to both of their benefits.
The losers are everyone who needs the invention of petrodollars to continue, lest all of those unneeded dollars come back home, the only place they are legal tender.
yes, this "discussion" is about the flow of oil.
A rich american might have a 72 inch 3d tv. A poor indian could have a pound of gold. You are crackers.
[sarcasm]Yeah, but you can't eat gold![/sarcasm]
www.Gold-Silver.US/forum
You can eat gold and silver. There is no sarcasm here.
http://tinyurl.com/5rspyqg
India holds more gold due to the cultural affinity to the barbarous relic. Perhaps the highest in the world.
Indian were very recently allowed to keep gold. As a public gold quantity,
i doubt india has much.
They used to save wealth as silver in the form of Jewelery.
Little googling goes a long way....
I think you mean China and Russia.
Force you to pay oil in dollars but won't let you pay if we don't want.
This is kind of like having tons of money but the bank won't let you at it.
We just won't "clear the USD transaction" through our USD banking system...lolz. Only approved dollar purchases will be permitted
That is the challenge -- easy to insist that Iran be isolated by disallowing payments to them via US controlled payment systems but if US can't offer alternate supplies to the countries being supplied by Iran, those countries will be forced to source from Iran in alternate ways...
Can't put a lid on this demand...
Or maybe use Iraq and other "participating" oil-producing members to flood the market so as to decrease necessity and reliance on a single producer.
Perhaps a combination of strategies so as not to fully expose what's really going on.
this says a lot about the demand for both elements
So has this not been happening since the paper manipulation started then? Is freegold not inevitable?
I can see it now. Gold will be declared a tool of AlQueda and the axis of evil. To fight the war on terror, it has to be confiscated, othewise the terrorists win.
It seems to me that eventually, China, Russia or someone is going to start dealing with Iran for Oil in something other than dollars because their need for the resources will outweigh their willingness to play the dollar game.
Then there will be blood.
fofoa.blogspot.com.
oil for gold
yeah this was mentioned as a portion of the transactions for a while now... they'll be left with a pile of gold to either buy new energy for their cities or.. not.. just sit on their gold and fly in their jets.. who knows
Being a big fan of FOFOA, I still do not understand why India would want to pay for their oil with gold at an (apparently) low price.
If the Bearing were running India, I would save the gold and pay in FIAT!
Think of it this way, if you trade using dollars then you have to keep a shitload of dollars to transact business. Do you really want a few hundred billion dollars that could at any given point become worthless overnight? That problem/risk goes away when you start trading for your commodities without fiat.
Gives a new meaning to "black gold", hehe.
trst
Whats the ratio ?
If the Gold is still dollar denominated it may supply some protection for the US gold reserve - however if it is one barrel for ? ounces then this could be really really different.
perhaps now you know what fofoa is writing about...
that was one of the main things Another was talking about in his earliest posts...
+1 How's it going to be priced?
However they freakin' decide. That's the beauty of it.
No "dollars" gumming up the works.
Maybe initially they'd use dollars to determine the ratio, but once it's settled they don't need the dollar anymore -- it drops out of the equation.
Someone above mentioned it's around 15 barrels of oil to one ounce of gold. As oil becomes more dear, I suppose you'd get less oil over time per ounce, but I'm sure it would hold up better than dollars.
Holy shit! Do the Indians know what happened last time a country decided to transact oil in anything other than USD?!?
Think: Saddam and Iraq
India definitely has WMD. No embarrassments this time.
no risk there, cause those with WMD never get invaded. The link may increase Iranian protection too.
You don't think having your invasion force completely wiped out by a nuclear weapon would be embarrassing?
Sounds like an unemployment solution right there! And in all honesty the USA would never invade India. They would use intelligence assets to destabilize it an if need be launch a nuke from Pakistan to kick off a nuke war in that region and still have "clean hands".
Exactly. Was thinking a Pakistani nuke "terrorist attack."
Kills 2 birds with 1 stone.
Pakistan unable to control its nukes and needs more US oversight? check.
India missing 1/4 of its population and needs more US protection? check.
I think by now both the Paki's and Indian's know how to deal with their differences, and whom to rely on, they are no strangers to the ways of the west. Not as easy to fool them as you think.
Precisely! Chess (and Go!) were invented in the Orient, after all.
Actually Indian's and Pakistani's are pretty well aware that we are the same people. Indo/Pak division (most people have forgotten that Bangladesh was once East Pakistan till India "liberated" it, which is a whole other can of worms anyway) was a ploy.
But the un-ending propaganda has worked. Pakistan has been demonized in India and vice-versa.
Unfortunately, the level of dialouge within these two countries refuses to or cannot rise in the face of brain-mush-making TV swill they are fed with. 24X7. Add to that a kleptocracy and a thugocracy in power and you have the recepie for where we are today.
ORI
http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2010/07/13/whither-india/
Good point. We don't invade countries that can defend themselves.
expect serious instability in India soon....as a warning.
I think at this point cia fuckover squads are working at about 190 percent capacity. Who knew taking over world was such a challenge.
At the end of the day I feel ZH will be able to connect all the dots.
I have no content to add, just exclamation: Holy Shit!
I can see the new currency forming: the INDIRAN
Backed by gold/oil reserves.
Somehow the dollar loses out on that deal. (Yeah, Ft. Knox is a myth.)
It is time that US should start dialogue with Iran. If China is next in line, US is going to go bust and that's the last thing we should wish for right now. Ask average Russian, Pole, Czech, East German what happened when Soviet Union collapsed. The big difference is, USSR did not have reserve currency of the world as well up to teeth armed citizens that know how to fight it’s own government in case of being oppressed by WA.DC!
China nor India nor even both of them combined, are not ready to take over global responsibilities!
India should watch out what she wish for! That's plain playing with fire!
I look to hurricane Katrina as an example of how the US Government handles major disasters. They've learned some lessons from then, all the wrong ones probably.