This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

Initial Claims: 474K - Bring Out QE3

Tyler Durden's picture


And scene: jobless claims explode to 474K, beyond the worst economist expectation, far above consensus of 410K, and well above the previous (upward revised of course) number of 431K. This is the worst claims number since Aigist 2010. Game over for the US "recovery."

Welcome to the US Recovery:

Those collecting EUC and Extended Claims continue dropping of the 99-week roster, with 48K no longer collecting weekly government paychecks.


- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Thu, 05/05/2011 - 08:30 | 1242497 Archimedes
Archimedes's picture


Thu, 05/05/2011 - 08:55 | 1242627 anynonmous
anynonmous's picture

The government cites special factors behind a 43,000 surge in initial jobless claims. The biggest factor is an adjustment timing for a spring break in New York state

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 09:05 | 1242690 ihedgemyhedges
ihedgemyhedges's picture

No mention of tornados/floods?????

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 09:50 | 1242923 obelisks
obelisks's picture

and it's GWB's fault

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 09:17 | 1242764 SweatpantKing
SweatpantKing's picture

I don't need a job... I need a spring vacation!

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 11:59 | 1243567 Smu the Wonderhorse
Smu the Wonderhorse's picture

Or a drink.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 09:43 | 1242875 Rainman
Thu, 05/05/2011 - 09:04 | 1242684 duo
duo's picture

Now you know why OBL had to die THIS week.  A lot of bad news is coming, and the more distracted the plebes, the better.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 10:00 | 1242959 Steelpulse
Steelpulse's picture


Thu, 05/05/2011 - 10:17 | 1243025 oklaboy
oklaboy's picture

here here, well put.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 10:15 | 1243029 oklaboy
oklaboy's picture

here here, well put.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 10:19 | 1243051 6 String
6 String's picture

Yup. It was a effort to rally the American spirit just before the debt bomb drops on them...

That's what Obama's press conference was about: "we're America and can do anything!"

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 09:23 | 1242727 Mentaliusanything
Mentaliusanything's picture

Holy Shite - green shoots are busting out. 

Can you say Timber. Go any silver or gold you can get, borrow, steal or rob cause the wind cometh before the storm (TD I was right - 13 weekers never lie).

That said they have flown back the pumps from Fukushima because it is judged a situation of Major meltdown in containment.

Micky D's showed the way with near a million for 63k. Suck on those numbers bitches cause it is your reality.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 10:07 | 1242979 Blano
Blano's picture

Hey, look at the bright side.....if McDonalds hadn't done all that hiring, the number would have been over 500K.  Wouldn't that be considered a green shoot??

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 10:24 | 1243064 Mentaliusanything
Mentaliusanything's picture

Well, thinking about it ? your dead fucking right.

That would have made the legs tremble. Good old Mickey D saving America one lousy job at a time.

Fri, 08/05/2011 - 06:06 | 1526034 cindycheng
cindycheng's picture

I want to express my admiration of your writing skill and ability to make readers read from the beginning to the end. I would like to read newer posts and to share my thoughts with you. oilseed expeller

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 08:31 | 1242498 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

You a**holes, Fed!!

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 08:56 | 1242635 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture


You a**holes, Fed!!


At this point I see no reason to mask the word asshole.




Thu, 05/05/2011 - 09:21 | 1242647 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Agreed. Ass_Wholes

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 10:57 | 1243248 goldfish1
goldfish1's picture

ass whores

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 10:26 | 1243072 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

You hsould be thanking them for a soon to be 13,000 DOW.  This is bullshit......I mean bullish.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 08:34 | 1242500 Thomas
Thomas's picture

The Rally Monkey should appear on this news.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 08:37 | 1242538 Catullus
Catullus's picture


Thu, 05/05/2011 - 08:38 | 1242542 Cursive
Cursive's picture

+1  Big time lulz.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 08:58 | 1242653 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Gold behaving extremely well

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 08:31 | 1242502 lettuce
lettuce's picture

does that mean my silver will be on the rise again :(

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 08:33 | 1242512 Quintus
Quintus's picture

Yes it does.  Once this ridiculous 'Deflation trade' idea that appeared this week has run its course in a day or two, and traders move back to facing the obvious reality of QE to infinity and eventual hyperinflation.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 08:36 | 1242517 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

Not if the CFTC can't do it's job....or rather...does it's job per tungstenman. 

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 08:45 | 1242579 lettuce
lettuce's picture

tungsten is useless now. muhahaha.... didn't you know conventional lightbulbs are about to be illegal?

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 09:05 | 1242685 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Well tungsten makes good fishin' weights still.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 09:07 | 1242701 TaxSlave
TaxSlave's picture

Black market light bulbs = free enterprise.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 08:42 | 1242554 Ray1968
Ray1968's picture

That all depends how hard "they" work to suppress it. Margin rates are a bitch.

Buy physical and wait it out.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 08:42 | 1242562 Jack Sheet
Jack Sheet's picture

"Hyperinflation is preposterous"

Mish Shedlock

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 09:03 | 1242692 Quintus
Quintus's picture

"Mish Shedlock is preposterous"

- Hyperinflation

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 09:17 | 1242763 MyFriendMises
MyFriendMises's picture

+1.  Did anyone else picture a character called Hyperinflation saying that because I did.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 09:27 | 1242795 Quintus
Quintus's picture

Anthropomorphism at its finest :-)

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 09:22 | 1242778 hamurobby
hamurobby's picture

Didnt Krugman say 7 trillion needed? What could possibly go wrong.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 10:15 | 1243028 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

What's in a number anyways

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 19:13 | 1245642 Fred Hayek
Fred Hayek's picture


What's in a Krugman statement?



Thu, 05/05/2011 - 09:37 | 1242841 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture


Mish doesn't shop at Walmart.


......he has "people".




Thu, 05/05/2011 - 12:51 | 1243844 dizzyfingers
dizzyfingers's picture

I know where he lives. He probably does shop at Walmart.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 08:43 | 1242565 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

They have 2 options.

1. Quit the margins increases and let the price rise until overage Joe can't buy it anymore so the industry still has enough to function and demand to level.

2. Make it so cheap that inventories all over will be depleted in the next 6 months which could cause a catastrophic domino effect in the derivative market.


2 options, both lead to Armageddon.

There is a 3th option but that would included every silver investor to dump their silver back to the melters and industry demand to go down, but I don't really call it a option. The problem with the investor silver is that once it's put in circulation it takes a very long time before it returns if ever.

In 100 years, there will still be enough people who inherit silver from people who are buying it now.




Thu, 05/05/2011 - 08:59 | 1242670 mrgneiss
mrgneiss's picture

Number one is what usually would happen, but can't because the dumb fucks have such a huge short position.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 09:26 | 1242792 TwoShortPlanks
TwoShortPlanks's picture

Short positions go to zero when a currency dies, ie. the US Dollar.

To own Gold and Silver in Weimar King!

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 09:07 | 1242716 ATM
ATM's picture

I'd say the option that is much more likely is to maintain the staus quo where we will see margin requirements increase everytime silver reaches a certain point until we reach the point that silver cannot be margined at all and must be bought for cash.

More likely is that the exchanges crash well beofre then as these staged increases only prove that they are ponzi schemes and are trying to hide that fact by manipulating the price of the underlying.

That can work for a while but not forever.


Thu, 05/05/2011 - 09:55 | 1242936 trav7777
trav7777's picture

wtf is the problem with removing margin from commodities exchanges?

They SHOULD do this.  Exchanges should return to being places where real sellers and buyers trade, instead of a place where speculators try to manipulate and make money off of doing nothing.

Imagine if the grocery store or farmers market worked like'd have some spec trying to lever buy up all the spaghetti and make the prices go up up up when he has no intention of ever taking delivery of the stuff.  Fuck speculation in real assets.  Shorts should have real metal and longs should be interested in buying real metal.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 10:04 | 1242974 ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

Agree with your sentiment 100%, but what you are talking about is a far cry from what's happening now.  What we have now is a sham of a paper market, and the margin increases are just the tugs on the strings of the marionette.

Once we opened the door for fractional reserve metal exchanges, the matter of margins seems like a pimple on a fat guy's ass.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 10:19 | 1243049 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Exactly.  A proper functioning exchange wouldn't have 2 hands in the cookie jar front running every policy change.

The CME is a total fraud.  The "speculators" are only those with deep pockets that can smell blood.  The CME and Morgue has brought this on themselves 100%.


Thu, 05/05/2011 - 10:49 | 1243214 Creed
Creed's picture

  Fuck speculation in real assets.


hear hear


especially the lifeblood of nations, oil

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 10:56 | 1243258 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

It should. Yes.

But now the paper is priced at 26 times the actual spot price!






Thu, 05/05/2011 - 11:49 | 1243511 tmosley
tmosley's picture

I would qualify that as "fuck LEVERAGED speculation in hard assets".

If they want to get a loan from some fool (not the exchange) to speculate, more power to them.  Allowing any moron who can get into the exchange access to that much leverage is foolish at best.

Speculators ensure that there is supply.  If there were no speculators holding back consumption of food, oil, or silver, there would be times when those things were not available at ANY price, as production always has a lag time.  Speculators can fill that void.  But when they are allowed to have leverage, and they all have the exact same amount of leverage, then they can all be flushed out at the same time, creating wild price swings.  If they had to secure their own financing, they would get flushed out at different times.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 12:57 | 1243882 Kickaha
Kickaha's picture

I doubt that speculators serve any legitimate purpose whatsoever.  They create transfer payments among themselves and profits for the exchanges upon which they trade.  Hence the creation of the great Myth of Liquidity.

It is said that producers need to hedge via speculation in futures markets to protect themselves from price swings between the time they decide to produce and the time it takes to get produced goods to market.

While I agree it might be cheaper to hedge via a derivative security, the alternative might be to keep an excess supply in storage, or to just keep enough cash on hand to stay in business if prices drop unexpectedly.

All market makers are simply like the hardware stores during the gold rush.  The miners mostly died penniless, while the hardware stores skimmed money off the mining process.  It greatly enriched the hardware store owners to create the great myth of the Gold Rush.

It has greatly enriched all exchanges and brokerages to somehow make everybody believe they can make a forturne daytrading securities and commodities of any sort.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 14:23 | 1244245 mind_imminst
mind_imminst's picture

It is not so much a "belief" that money can be made by trading, it is becoming one of the only options for trying to make money. Outside working on your career, there are not many places to make a decent return right now. Conservative invesments like CDs or bonds are paying paltry sums. The FED has destroyed traditional savings. I trade a bit now and get a better return.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 12:54 | 1243857 dizzyfingers
dizzyfingers's picture

Yes, please. All of that, ditto.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 10:31 | 1243110 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

CME trying to scare out levereged longs right?  So those longs don't continually roll their delivery calls to cash and back into longs?

All I know is today my birthday and tomorrow my $10K will go a long ways to gather me way more silver than I thought I would be able to purchase back when I liquidated some paper asset bullshit.  Happy birthday to me mother fuckers.  Happy birthday to me.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 11:51 | 1243522 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Hey, happy birthday.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 13:07 | 1243947 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture


Thu, 05/05/2011 - 08:31 | 1242503 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Now the fear of a silver spike has been replaced by the fear of revolution

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 08:32 | 1242506 lettuce
lettuce's picture

phew thank god

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 08:59 | 1242660 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

DC crowd revamping cold war nuclear shelters with stocks to last for 2 year war

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 10:57 | 1243246 MilleniumJane
MilleniumJane's picture


Thu, 05/05/2011 - 08:32 | 1242504 Quintus
Quintus's picture

All part of the plan.  The masses will be screaming for more QE soon.  Ben will, of course, oblige.


Thu, 05/05/2011 - 08:52 | 1242608 reading
reading's picture

will that be while they are screaming about paying over $5 a gallon for gas?  Cause it outght to make a run there in no time with the way things are going.



Thu, 05/05/2011 - 08:54 | 1242632 Quintus
Quintus's picture

Probably.  The masses aren't terribly bright, or clued up about cause and effect.  They'll just react to the TV which is telling them that markets are crashing, jobs are vanishing and unless more QE is forthcoming right away, a plague of locusts is forecast to descend upon them and consume all their cheez doodles.  The possibility of major reality TV shows having to be canceled in the absence of more QE may also be raised.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 09:08 | 1242708 Arius
Arius's picture

Ohhh...NO they cannot i repeat they cannot cancel Dancing with the Stars or the Apprentice....

I WANT and I DESERVE just because...

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 09:19 | 1242777 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



Dude.......American idle is the best reality show.


.....besides this.




Thu, 05/05/2011 - 09:28 | 1242806 falak pema
falak pema's picture


Here is the best pseudo reality show from a previous post (priceless!) : by Village Idiot 

We all need a laugh - and sorry for the heist.


Dr. Strangelove: Sir! I have a plan! 
[standing up from his wheelchair
Dr. Strangelove: Mein Führer! I can walk!

[discussing the Doomsday machine
President Merkin Muffley: How is it possible for this thing to be triggered automatically and at the same time impossible to untrigger? 
Dr. Strangelove: Mr. President, it is not only possible, it is essential. That is the whole idea of this machine, you know. Deterrence is the art of producing in the mind of the enemy... the FEAR to attack. And so, because of the automated and irrevocable decision-making process which rules out human meddling, the Doomsday machine is terrifying and simple to understand... and completely credible and convincing.

[Strangelove's plan for post-nuclear war survival involves living underground with a 10:1 female-to-male ratio
General "Buck" Turgidson: Doctor, you mentioned the ratio of ten women to each man. Now, wouldn't that necessitate the abandonment of the so-called monogamous sexual relationship, I mean, as far as men were concerned? 
Dr. Strangelove: Regrettably, yes. But it is, you know, a sacrifice required for the future of the human race. I hasten to add that since each man will be required to do prodigious... service along these lines, the women will have to be selected for their sexual characteristics which will have to be of a highly stimulating nature. 
Ambassador de Sadesky: I must confess, you have an astonishingly good idea there, Doctor.

Dr. Strangelove: Of course, the whole point of a Doomsday Machine is lost, if you *keep* it a *secret*! Why didn't you tell the world, EH? 
Ambassador de Sadesky: It was to be announced at the Party Congress on Monday. As you know, the Premier loves surprises.

President Merkin Muffley: You mean people could actually stay down there for a hundred years? 
Dr. Strangelove: It would not be difficult, Mein Führer. Nuclear reactors could - heh, I'm sorry, Mr. President - nuclear reactors could provide power almost indefinitely.


Thu, 05/05/2011 - 10:22 | 1243067 sschu
sschu's picture

are screaming about paying over $5 a gallon for gas?

The classic response is price controls.  This was tried in the 1930s (in reverse, price supports) and all thru history.  It does not work but buys time for the politicians.

Soon those in power will abdicate responsibility and you and I will be left to clean up the mess.  After they clean us out of course.


Thu, 05/05/2011 - 11:35 | 1243460 baby_BLYTHE
baby_BLYTHE's picture

South Carolina has a bill just introduced to 'cap-off' the price of gasoline

It's cumming folks, brace yourselves

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 12:54 | 1243878 dussasr
dussasr's picture

Good, if they cap the price in SC then no one will sell it for a loss there.  This will make more supply available outside of SC which should make it slightly cheaper for me.  /sarc off

What an idiot.  Someone should organize a field trip to Venezuela to see how price caps lead to empty store shelves.  Maybe they could teach econ 101 on the plane ride down there too.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 11:33 | 1243461 AndrewJacksonsGhost
AndrewJacksonsGhost's picture

Don't forget Nixon used price controls also.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 08:32 | 1242507 Cdad
Cdad's picture

It took less than 3 minutes for the words "QE 3" to be uttered over at the BlowHorn [CNBC].

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 09:03 | 1242695 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Whores sho'nuff do love their whorin'!

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 09:30 | 1242826 falak pema
falak pema's picture

QE-3 : the new "doomsday machine"...

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 09:34 | 1242832 Mentaliusanything
Mentaliusanything's picture

3 minutes - CNBC - QE 3 - what no mention of a lousy $16 trillion debt ceiling to be climbed over. Fuck me running up K2, in the Himalayas, naked and bare foot while dragging a Vegas, size 16 whore by your dick would be easier going.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 12:59 | 1243895 dizzyfingers
dizzyfingers's picture

Don't hold anything back, get it all out.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 08:32 | 1242508 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

When more of America is sucking from the teet, why oh why would they ever vote for austerity?  If you want your office: dole it out.  51% of America now recieves more from Uncle Sam than they give him.  And that's the voting majority....

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 08:40 | 1242540 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

and now they'll blame EASTER!

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 09:05 | 1242580 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

my English sucks to, BUT EVEN I KNOW HOW TO SPELL TITS!


How do you get around the internet when you can't spell Tits?


Thu, 05/05/2011 - 09:18 | 1242768 Captain Planet
Captain Planet's picture

Girls have tits

Sheep, cows and sheeple suck on teets.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 09:34 | 1242834 falak pema
falak pema's picture

so do belgians...

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 19:26 | 1245684 Fred Hayek
Fred Hayek's picture

Who are these "belgians" of whom you speak?  I've heard of the Flemish from the southernmost portion of Holland and the Walloons from the northernmost part of France.  Wasn't there once a country called "Belgium" made up of a portion of both Holland and France?  That was the place that couldn't form any kind of national government and disintegrated, wasn't it?

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 13:26 | 1244025 tired1
tired1's picture

teats - wiki

In its most general form, a nipple is a structure from which a fluid emanates. More specifically, it is the projection on the breasts or udder of a mammal by which breast milk is delivered to a mother's young. In this sense, it is often called a teat, especially when referring to non-humans, ...

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 09:19 | 1242759 Commander Cody
Commander Cody's picture

Eventually, all the debt will need to be repaid or repudiated.  If paid, then by whom and when?

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 08:33 | 1242510 FunkyMonkeyBoy
FunkyMonkeyBoy's picture

Can i please ask a sane question:

QE1 didn't create jobs.

QE2 didn't create jobs.

So, Ben's going to do QE3?

Anyone else see the same problem i see?

"the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result" 

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 08:36 | 1242518 RunningMan
RunningMan's picture

I thought employment was going to be removed as an objective for the Fed? Seeing as they haven't been all that successful and all. Like any good performance management system, if you can't meet the goals, change the targets, or remove the metric. Winning!

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 09:12 | 1242717 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

So, Ben's going to do QE3?

QE1 saved big banks and banking jobs.

QE2 saved big banks and banking jobs.

QE3 will save big banks and banking jobs.

Ben Bernanke works for a bank cartel.  What do you think he is going to do?

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 09:13 | 1242735 willien1derland
willien1derland's picture

HH - as usual - great assessment - +100

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 09:34 | 1242831 TwoShortPlanks
TwoShortPlanks's picture

Hang-on people, this needs a little more accuracy.

Deregulation - For the Banks

Bail-Outs - For the Banks

Stimulus - For the Banks

TARP - For the Banks

ZIRP - For the Banks

QE1.0 - For the Banks

QE1.5 (AKA QE-Lite) - For the Banks

QE2.0 - For the Banks

Zero accountability - For the Banks


I think there's something here, but I can't quite put my finger on it...

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 09:59 | 1242955 Nobody special
Nobody special's picture

To paraphrase Obama, "QE was instituted to save or create 3 to 4 million bonuses."

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 10:10 | 1242994 Zedge Hero
Zedge Hero's picture

Zero Hedge - Fuck the Banks

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 10:27 | 1243074 Crack-up Boom
Crack-up Boom's picture

+1  Fed's goal is more bank for the buck.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 08:38 | 1242524 Quintus
Quintus's picture

QE is about masking the total insolvency of the entire financial system.  It has nothing whatsoever to do with jobs.

Viewed in that light, it has been pretty successful so far, wouldn't you say?

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 08:41 | 1242559 Cursive
Cursive's picture

@Quintus / Tyler

QE is about masking the total insolvency of the entire financial system.  It has nothing whatsoever to do with jobs.

I nominate this pithy analysis for a sticky on the masthead.  Beautifully sums up Benron's plot.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 10:08 | 1242985 trav7777
trav7777's picture

It's absolutely correct.

I have been maintaining this since I got here and before I was on ZH I was shouting the same stuff on douchinger's TF.

The financial system is a compounding animal requiring additional borrowing to grow geometrically from today's outstanding borrowing, or else it collapses.

The debtmoney system is in a state of constant effective default in that at any given point, more claims on money exist than there is money to satisfy.  This is by virtue of existing monies being outstanding principal but there also being interest owed in the future for which money has not yet been created.

So at any point, claims exist of Z1 + iZ1 and only Z1 debtmoney exists.  Either the future holds borrowing of the additional iZ1 or else iZ1 and Z1 begin to compete for the money supply, all while the iZ1 obligation continues to compound exponentially.  It's grow credit or collapse.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 10:46 | 1243174 sschu
sschu's picture

Outstanding post, very succinct, thank you!



Thu, 05/05/2011 - 10:56 | 1243239 Creed
Creed's picture

I was shouting the same stuff on douchinger's TF.



careful or you'll wind up being popular over here despite your pm bashing if you keep using these ZH buzzwords

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 11:12 | 1243318 trav7777
trav7777's picture

I don't bash PMs...I bash the shameless pumper idiots who tell people to buy into a grossly overbought market

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 11:55 | 1243541 tmosley
tmosley's picture

No, you bash tmosley, and only tmosley, because you have a vendetta against him because he schooled you on peak oil (a kindergardener knows what a peak looks like, but you don't, lol).

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 11:01 | 1243269 Holodomor2012
Holodomor2012's picture

Yar.  Principle < Principle + Interest.  Debt unpayable at creation of first FRN.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 13:24 | 1244004 Kickaha
Kickaha's picture

True enough at moment debt contract is created.

But, the repayment occurs later in time.  In the interim, borrower takes FRN, buys hen.  Feeds and breeds hen, gets chicks.  Chicks grow up to be chickens.  Via debt one hen is turned into a dozen chickens.  Sells two chickens, pockets change, repay P + I, has 10 chickens left over.

Well, actually, he probably has to give a chicken to the guy who helped him, give another one to the guy who sold him the feed, maybe eat one or two to stay alive, and still ends up with chickens to spare, and zero debt.

The problems crop up when business conditions are so lousy that producers who borrow the money cannot use it to produce enough wealth to pay the loan and its interest back.  It is the lack of sufficient credit-spurred production that can cause a downward debt spiral, and not the creation of debt.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 13:43 | 1244072 Holodomor2012
Holodomor2012's picture

No, you miss the breakdown.  Interest drives inflation.  The system is rigged.  Money at interest means money will die; 30yrs, 50yrs, could be 70yrs, but it will die.  And blame goes to the usurers - as should the 5.56.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 13:04 | 1243925 dizzyfingers
dizzyfingers's picture

It's a sickening picture but you explain it clearly and well. Thanks. :-(

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 08:45 | 1242564 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

QE is about masking the total insolvency of the entire financial system.  It has nothing whatsoever to do with jobs.


Despite this, we are in the beginning stages of the final collapse.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 08:55 | 1242649 Quintus
Quintus's picture

Masking problems doesn't make them go away.  Ben seems not to understand this.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 09:06 | 1242709 vocational tainee
vocational tainee's picture

If they ignore it long enough, they get a different kind of view...

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 09:20 | 1242769 augie
augie's picture

you ever see the movie international with clive owen? There is a part where the main banker asks his tween son what to do when there seems to be no way out.

son's response,


"When there's no way out, you find a deeper way in."


pretty much sums it up.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 08:47 | 1242596 TaxSlave
TaxSlave's picture

QE is about temporarily masking the total insolvency of the entire financial system.  It has nothing whatsoever to do with jobs.

There.  Thought I'd help out.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 09:14 | 1242739 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

Nice point, but I would have to disagree on the semantics.  I wouldn't say that the financial system is insolvent as they can print money.  It is that the fiat experiment + free market = failure. 

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 09:31 | 1242817 Quintus
Quintus's picture

Agreed, but I think this failure manifests itself first and foremost at the beating (or not, in this case) heart of the fiat system - the banks themselves.  By attempting to conceal this failure, they attempt to conceal the wider failure of the entire fiat Ponzi.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 13:05 | 1243938 dizzyfingers
dizzyfingers's picture

If banks are running everything, and it seems like they are, why have government?

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 17:19 | 1245243 ToddGak
ToddGak's picture

Because the banks can't make laws.  They need the government as a proxy to make laws that favor their interests.  This is known as "lobbying."

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 08:40 | 1242552 Thomas
Thomas's picture

Ain't about jobs; it's about creating a buyer of last resort for treasuries.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 08:47 | 1242581 Convervative Co...
Convervative Connection's picture

I'd take a slightly different tack with your statement.

Let's assume that EVERY job gained since QE1 was announced was due entirely to QE. So that's about, what, 1 million or 2 million jobs? And the QE programs cost about $1.5T, right?

$1,500,000,000,000 / 2,000,000 jobs = $750,000 per job

Seems like quite the bargain.

And this is supposedly the abosolute BEST justification they can put forward.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 08:52 | 1242628 RunningMan
RunningMan's picture

The amount of shovel ready projects underway (infrastructure 'improvements') is making it hard to drive places (more traffic, expensive gas) and hindering productivity. Oh the irony.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 09:03 | 1242677 overmedicatedun...
overmedicatedundersexed's picture

running man, a quick story about road work, was on PA turnpike last week, hit stopped traffic outside of allentown, miles of trucks and cars backed up at 3pm...after hours of crawling at 2 to 5 miles an hour, came to the cause of the back up..One Maintenance truck parked in passing lane, with two workers out front one standing there the other actually held a shovel and seemed to be thinking about how he could use it..America you are great.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 09:44 | 1242894 RunningMan
RunningMan's picture

I've seen many examples in the NE US just like that. Rebuilding America one speed bump at a time... Maybe they want us to drive slower. What's the saying: "Success is a journey, not a destination, so stop running." 

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 13:09 | 1243945 dizzyfingers
dizzyfingers's picture

We've had similar experiences, same general area.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 09:20 | 1242780 augie
augie's picture

bullish for shovels!


:cricket: :cricket:


nothing? really?

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 09:38 | 1242850 falak pema
falak pema's picture

since we are talking of are your razor sharp nipples faring...survived the OBL frustration?

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 09:46 | 1242900 augie
augie's picture

nipples are good... shirt is another story. Gonna be an awkward conversation at the tailors.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 11:42 | 1243486 falak pema
falak pema's picture

glad to hear your priorities are right on the button. Tailors should only come from Panama and wear panama hats! Not like that Chindit fella in a pukka hat.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 12:38 | 1243778 augie
augie's picture



bully sir. 

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 08:49 | 1242594 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

QE3 will cause wheelbarrow production to skyrocket which in turn will create AT LEAST 5000 extra jobs!

but only if it's arround 5 trillion...

6 will do to.


Thu, 05/05/2011 - 09:50 | 1242921 optimator
optimator's picture

Looking for a company that makes both wheelbarrows and applecarts.  Should be a great long term investment.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 09:07 | 1242703 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Total Insanity, the new normal.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 09:10 | 1242718 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Ahhh but don't you see? If you wanted to detroy the dollar, what could be better??

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 09:41 | 1242871 Mentaliusanything
Mentaliusanything's picture

Hey Funky Monkey boy. Bens so smart he makes refutes Alberts other thing.

"For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" as well as the clincher

"Inertia is directly proportional to mass. So twice the mass, twice the inertia, So, the larger the mass, the greater the inertia."

Ben just forgot the Mass is coming back to smack him in his ass and its coming back at E= Mc2

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 10:09 | 1243000 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Newton formulated the laws of motion, not Einstein.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 11:52 | 1243528 falak pema
falak pema's picture

albert formulated that when you went to his hall you ended up at his memorial as it was all relative given the speed of light. For anybody who has been to London this is obvious as brains dissolve into thin air under the effect of the mid day sun and the mini skirt. 

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 08:35 | 1242511 AUD
AUD's picture


Nothing like a risk free profit to get those speculators to bid for bonds.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 08:37 | 1242513 AUD
AUD's picture


Thu, 05/05/2011 - 08:36 | 1242514 bhakta
bhakta's picture

Was this due to bad weather in April? Too cold? Too hot? Not enoiugh autos sold? Was OBL killed (supposedly) to distract us from reality more?

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 08:41 | 1242545 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Not to worry by 2089 the weather will be "Just right."

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 08:47 | 1242575 Thomas
Thomas's picture

It's because April has only 30 days. The month over month comparison is not fair. In fact, I also hear rumor that daylight savings time hurt the economy (gave employers more time to fire people.) The cherry blossoms were also late this year. I think they ought to give bonus days to some months--a kind of hedonic adjustment--when things are looking especially bad. On the other hand, maybe we are simply hosed.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 08:53 | 1242621 TaxSlave
TaxSlave's picture

This will be a definite positive when those people ride out the last miserable minutes of their benefits period.  As they are exhausted, they "gave up and stopped looking for work", so unemployment will go down.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 08:38 | 1242516 HamyWanger
HamyWanger's picture

Yesterday, we opened two more consumer discretionary stores in Detroit, and are hiring - by the way - 6 young persons as sellers. Silverbugs might apply in order to get a lunch after the ---23% devastation.

Our stores were immediately assaulted by hundreds of young, pretty girls screaming like at a concert of Lady Gaga or Justin Bieber.

It is quite strange in the "crisis" libertarian doomers and Austrian economists try to sell us. Aren't purses supposed to be empty? 

What I see in my daily life is that the global economic recovery is accelerating, and that the United States of America will still be the world's first superpower in 2050. No amount of dooming or statistics will change this cruel fact.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 08:38 | 1242547 cossack55
cossack55's picture

I was saddened to hear of your suicide by hanging next week.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 08:48 | 1242569 HamyWanger
HamyWanger's picture

We are hiring a coffee guy. You may want to apply after losing all your savings in the silver crash. 

What I do is humanitarian work. I don't want you to end up in the Vegas sewers with all the meth addicts and escaped criminals. 

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 08:57 | 1242642 samsara
samsara's picture

So are the positions you are hiring for, are they the $25 - 30$ an hour 'Support your family" type wages?

Or are they the $4-$5 an hour 'Just enough to keep you alive(???) but destitute type positions ??


Thu, 05/05/2011 - 09:09 | 1242711 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture


Yesterday, we opened two more......



It's true....he's in food stamps...and business is good....just ask 1 in 7 Americans.



Thu, 05/05/2011 - 09:20 | 1242765 SoNH80
SoNH80's picture

"Consumer discretionary" = "expired bakery goods discount outlet".  "Screaming girls" = fighting over last bag of 49-cent dinner rolls

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 10:14 | 1243009 sgorem
sgorem's picture

"What I do is humanitarian work. I don't want you to end up in the Vegas sewers with all the meth addicts and escaped criminals."

Hey Hamy, IF you really do "HUMANITARIAN" work, then go and charge/purchase a used Glock 36, a box of tall kitchen garbage bags, go home, put said garbage bag over your head and tighten it around your worthless detroit neck, and more or less TRY and blow your fucking peanut brains out. Full magazine please, WE can't count on you hitting the mark with ONE shot. Now that would be TRULY HUMANITARIAN. Have a great day.......

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 10:16 | 1243035 Zedge Hero
Zedge Hero's picture

Hamy I saw this yesterday and thought of you.

 keep the laughs coming Hamy.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 08:46 | 1242571 Cdad
Cdad's picture


Thu, 05/05/2011 - 08:50 | 1242612 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

He will be missed by his cat Buck...


I wonder how long it will take until anybody will find his corpse after complaining about the extra stench coming from his basement...



Thu, 05/05/2011 - 10:25 | 1243081 sgorem
sgorem's picture

"He will be missed by his cat Buck...


I wonder how long it will take until anybody will find his corpse after complaining about the extra stench coming from his basement..."     Sudden Debt......


Hamy's neighbors are used to THAT SMELL. Besides, it would give ole Buck meals for a couple of weeks...:)

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 08:52 | 1242607 hamurobby
hamurobby's picture

Very funny! thanks for the laugh Hamy, I haven't seen HarryW. around for awhile, I do miss his unbridled optimism though.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 09:00 | 1242661 samsara
samsara's picture

I imagine during the Black Death plague,  Undertakers were busy.  So,  like yourself,  some were seeing the economy 'Picking Up'  the more people died.

 I guess it's the 'Best of Times and the Worst of Times"  huh Wang?

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 09:04 | 1242704 Tinfoil Hat
Tinfoil Hat's picture

And were those customers paying in cash or loading up credit cards? 

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!