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As Iran Is Loading Fuel In Its First Nuclear Power Plant, Israel Warns Reactor Use "Totally Unacceptable"
As has been widely anticipated, Iran is currently in the last stages of preparation before pushing the On button for its brand, spanking new (and 20 years in the making) nuclear power plant. As Reuters reports: "Television showed live pictures of Iran's nuclear chief Ali Akbar Salehi and his Russian counterpart watching a fuel rod assembly being prepared for insertion into the reactor near the Gulf city of Bushehr." Yet despite Russia's guarantee that it would collect spent rods that could be used to make weapons-grade plutonium, Israel is not taking this development lightly at all, and as Jerusalem Post reported earlier, warned that "It is totally unacceptable that a country that blatantly violates
decisions of the United Nations Security Council and the International
Atomic Energy Agency, and ignores its commitment to the
Non-Proliferation Treaty charter, will enjoy the fruits of using nuclear
energy," according to Foreign Ministry spokesman Yossi Levy said. Which in turn has prompted Ahmadinejad to warn that a strike on Iran would be answered with "harsh and painful" response. All in all, just another Saturday in the middle east.
Yet that's not all, as Iran now seems intent on seeing how far the already frayed nerves in the region can stretch (and recall that recently Gulf states announced that the military option may be the best strategy for the region).
President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad chose Saturday to tell a meeting of university professors of plans to shoot satellites to altitudes of 700 km, then 1,000 km -- certain to add to Western concerns about Iran's development of missile technology.
"Once this target is realized, placing a satellite at a geosynchronous orbit of 35,000 km will be easy," he was quoted as saying by ISNA news agency. "This will be done within the next two or three years."
Long-range ballistic technology used to put satellites into orbit can also be used to launch warheads.
Iran launched a domestically made satellite in 2009, but only to an altitude of 250 km. Washington called that a "provocative act."
As for the whole reactor situation, even with ever increasing jawboning, Israel was very careful not to provoke or incite Russia:
The Foreign Ministry was pointedly making no reference to the Russian involvement in the reactor, an apparent effort not to say anything that could in any way complicate Israel's relations with Moscow.
The US State Department said Saturday that they do not consider Iran's Bushehr nuclear power facility a proliferation risk, AFP reported.
“We recognize that the Bushehr reactor is designed to provide civilian nuclear power and do not view it as a proliferation risk,” State Department spokesman Darby Holladay told AFP on Saturday.
Yet just in case there is escalation, Iran made its feeling known that WWIII would follow promptly any incursion, which he nonetheless did not expect to occur.
As the opening of the Bushehr plant took place on Saturday, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad told Qatari newspaper Al-Shark that if the Islamic Republic's nuclear facilities were attacked, the response from Teheran would be "worldwide" in its scope.
"Our possibilities would be limitless and would encompass the whole world," said Ahmadinejad.
Ahmadinejad discussed Israel, stating that the Jewish state would like to attack Iran but understands that the Islamic Republic is a "fortress that cannot be destroyed" and that the Iranian response to such an attack would be "harsh and painful."
"I don't believe their American masters would let them attack," Ahamadinejad added on Israel.
The weeklong operation to load uranium fuel into the reactor at the Bushehr power plant is the first step in starting up a facility the US once hoped to prevent because of fears over Teheran's nuclear ambitions.
In other words, the world is suddenly back to relying on the rationality of two people both in possession of launch codes, and a hope that both are familiar with the M.A.D. doctrine. In other words, stability rules. Surely, this is precisely the environment for stocks to surge to 36,000 on 3-4 shares traded, as the New York Fed "prices in" global thermonuclear warfare. Absent fireballs sprouting everywhere tomorrow, the likelihood of the delayed POMO reaction on Monday to send stocks well above the 50 DMA is suddenly all too real.
Below is a look at Iran's reactor, courtesy of Reuters:
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The Dimona plant is.... Oops, I meant the Bushehr plant is.... Aw, forget it.
All of your days are dy-ying
All of the doomsday birds are flyy-ying
http://youtu.be/BRP2AmkXQYQ MOTÖRHEADThe war is never over! Rock on...
The way Israel & Iran talk to each other, I can feel the sexual tension, and it's turning me on.
It's such a huge cocktease and if SOMEBODY doesn't bomb SOMEBODY ****SOON**** I'm gonna lose my boner. ;p~
ps: ........ Human beings ain't got no brains
Think you're better but you're all the same
Think you're clever but you're all to blame
Shut up I'm talking to you
I wouldn't smile if I was you
Human trash for human heads
You humans don't be so proud
You humans don't talk too loud
You humans just ain't too smart
I know what the blind man sees
On your feet or on your knees
STOP! ;)
Listen up I'm talking to you
Same old smile on the same old face
I wouldn't smile if I was you
Shut up I'm talking to you
PAY ATTENTION CAUSE I MEAN YOU TOO
YOUR VALUES AIN'T WORTH A DIME
HUMAN RIGHTS JUST HUMAN CRIME
SOMEBODY COMING THAT YOU JUST CAN'T BRIBE
;)
.
there it is ladies and gentlemen...
Someone on ZH junk rated a DOT
I think they junked what the dot represents. Use of symbols in place of words, and all that.
Beware The Ambassador of Death!!! (I don't know why I think thats so funny)
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100822/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_iran_unmanned_bomber
Dimona? the big dirty secret about that is there was an accident at that facility and it is inoperable.
I am looking forward for a major nuclear exchange between Israel and Iran. It will solve so many problems:
+1000
1st in 2000 years
You too, bravo
Means nothing; the "vampire squid" will just grow more tentacles.
peaceful my ass. It's not in human nature to be peaceful.
There's always someone to be exploited. Someone to step over. Someone to break to further the hometeam's agenda. Someone to hate.
Conflict is what makes us...us. That delusion of peaceful happiness and unicorns and rabbits is getting old, it will never be true.
We existed fat & happy and comfortably numb for all those years because we had entire 3rd worlds full of throwaway peoples to exploit to build our way of life.
We're becoming those throwaways now, and that's just the way the game works.
The first half of your statement is utter garbage.
The only reason we view ourselves this way is because we are taught to view ourselves this way and we allow ourselves to act this way.
We have people like you chirping in our ear that this is just the way things are. The natural order I guess. No sense in trying to change it, right?
Promise me you'll sing "All you need is love" with me in 20 years when you're working at a factory, making clothing for affluent Chinese for the equivalent of .10 yuan/hr?
For someone to gain something, someone else has to lose it. Not everyone can be a "have"'; from this, there will always be conflict. There can be no peace, but let's sing, shall we?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4p8qxGbpOk
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society"
KRISHNAMURTI
Amen
Oooh shit, I like that. Very harsh. Bravo
error
Hmmm.... got to wonder if Israel was talking about Iran with those comments...... or itself. The country that isn't "officially" classed as having nukes despite everyone knowing they have them, along with blatantly violating the rules of the non-proliferation treaty as well ! Pot.....kettle.......black ????
Exactly. After all, if a thief is stealing cash from the till, the best way to hide this fact is to put the blame on someone else. Kinda like Teh Shrub talking about terrorism...
I also believe Israel having nukes is totally unacceptable.
Well then, sir, you are a racists. <sarc>
I agree.. but of course we are Jew hating racists if we don't tow the line and fall into the consensus built for our pleasures by MSM.
I find it fascinating that any post about Israel draws so much passion. I have noticed that this little country is perpetually in the headlines year after year. Why is that? Why does the Media have a bias? Why do people get upset when Israel protects it's sovereignty and quality of life? Why does no one see what's self evident? If Israel can't defend themselves-who will? Why is Israel so important? Why do we look to this country for clues to world stability? Why was the best selling book in history written about this little nation? Anyone???
I have noticed that this little country is perpetually in the headlines year after year. Why is that?
Serial killers always get a lot of press. Folks need to be warned.
I think anyone having nukes is unacceptable, but it is what it is. Where do you put your trust? Nuclear power or God? More war is a coming whether we like it or not so welcome to the harvest...God Bless...
I predict this thread will descend into the usual shouting match. Not sure this is the best way for ZH to proceed, Tyler ?
We are confident our readers have the maturity required to analyze critical geopolitical facts impassionately and without emotional outbursts.
Your stinging sarcasm about the FED and the markets is very much appreciated.
as is your stinging sarcasm on the maturity level of ZH readers ;)
Cha-Ching-Cha-Ching-Ching!
Not!!!!!!!!
Who cares? If people are passionate about something I believe their opinions are all the more relevant. Something must have happened to make them that way.
yes.
Thats the funniest thing I have heard today. Thank you :-)
d
Let me say, as one who from time to time says things others see as "racist", "sexist", nonsensical and the ravings of some lunatic, that the thing I love about this site more than anything is the extremely free environment Tyler allows with comments. I think the freedom breeds much more things that need to be said than the negatives. Even Maria Singer said some things I thought were too pro Israel, and Tyler sometimes gives hints of being too pro trader or pro "sell-side" I still love this site and hope it doesn't change in this manner.
Personally I believe in the Bible. I believe the Jews were and are God's chosen people (I am not Jewish myself) They are the most intelligent ethnic group on earth they rise to the top of every country and every profession known to man (except maybe commissioner of sewers, and probably most likely that as well). They rise like "the cream of the crop" they are, and therefor attract their due share of resentment.
I also believe, if you read Genesis 16:12 that generally, (not all of them, but many) Arabs will be a royal pain in the ass to man, and especially Jews, and if we look at Iran and Israel and basically Israel's relationship with the Arab world throughout recorded time, it basically bears this fact out.
Ok, done with my "crazy" rant now.
You do know Iranians are not Arabs, don't you?
The fact that he said it means he does not know Iranians are not Arabs. KSA= Arabs. I doubt our state dept. knows Iranians are not Arabs
I know that Arabs and Persians are different. Would you two like your Junior Richard Holbrooke badge for that and a plastic toy??? But I would ask you, when you take on and adopt the religion of the conqueror, what exact difference do you have??? The way they tie on the headscarf???
As best we can tell, adopting a religion does not change DNA.
"I believe the Jews were and are God's chosen people"
But of course they are. They invented him.
They Invented 'Him' so no wonder
That's how you get to be in charge and get to be chosen. You start conjuring things out of thin air. Money, god, consent.
Indeed. How this little detail escapes the whole of Christianity. Very good point sir!!
Would you like to name all the other religions you know of where their God talked to the entire populous from a mountain??? Please list them. It's not a very good way to "invent" something that doesn't exist, do you think???
You're right and He also showed Moses His posterior. Can't make this stuff up.
You're a classy one, I can tell. Blasphemy is a dangerous game my friend. Good luck on that.
Got lost in a Jewish neighborhood in Brooklyn one Sunday. Saw an orthodox Jewish man walking with a boy, about 5-8 yo. I stopped, rolled down window and asked for direction. The man gave me directions, I thanked him, and was ready to get going when the boy, who was staring at me all the time, suddenly asked "why aren't you a Jew?"
The father sheepishly hurried the boy away, as I struggled to think of something funny but proper to say.
To this day I wonder what that boy meant. Did he take pity on me?
Our indoctrination starts at mothers breast and progresses from there. This boy was clearly not far from the teat.
Isn't that what maturity's supposedly all about, our breaking free from mother's milk and (re)discovering (some might say learning for the first time) what's really going on in the world. Aren't we supposed to break the childish chains that bind and venture out into the world to discover our "place"?
Sadly, for the vast majority of us, myself included, for too many years all I really was doing was acting out my childhood training. Freedom is first realized when we break the familial grasp of route life learning. Freedom is finally realized when we do the same with our governmental/social leaders.
Freedom for me has come via this site and I am very grateful.
not sewers! sue-ers
dispassionately?
Whoze we?
Thanks for the laugh TD, that was good !!!
Why not? My wife left me and I have no-one left to have shouting matches with. Male abusers often sabatoge their partner's birth control. Your comment sounds like you're thinking about poking around in Tyler's medicine cabinet. Once you have your own very successful blog, you'll be in a better position to critique the content of this one.
I doubt that. I mean everyone does have to answer a math question in order to log in.
Good. That should keep the Americans out.
Now, if TD could also implement a logic captcha to keep the religious nuts out...........
Popcorn anyone?
http://www.faizani.com/news/news_2003/math_impossibility.html
Everyone, including the Israelis, is resigned to Iran going nuclear. States like Qatar, Saudi, Kuwait and other Sunni majority states are every bit as much worried about this as the Israelis and this will definitely change the politics of the ME, IMHO.
F@ck the imperial lackeys and their Zionist masters.
From Tyler's post above:
We are confident our readers have the maturity required to analyze critical geopolitical facts impassionately and without emotional outbursts.
From zaknick's post above:
Who cares? If people are passionate about something I believe their opinions are all the more relevant. Something must have happened to make them that way.
"impassionately and without emotional outbursts"? If there is no impassionately and emotional outbursts, ZH will lose readership at least by 50%. I for one am here mostly for the red meat.
Red hots! Get you red hots here!
Never would have thought we'd let it go like this....very disheartening.
(1st ZH post. love this place. thanks for all the great info).
History started in the middle east, and that's where it will end. Keep a close eye as this unfolds over the next years? We have had a presence directly (war/occupation-Iraq/Afghanistan) or indirectly (Israeli support) for the last 62 years . We are eventually going to war as our economy continues to falter, and perhaps this will be the reason. Through history, military power projection is the final throw for a powerful nation with a faltering currency. I have read the last chapter of the Book and the war has been won. The battles; however will continue until the due time. God bless and help us...
All combat units are out of Iraq with only 50,000 troops left in an "advisory" role-whatever that means. We don't have enough troops in Af/Pak to invade a good sized city. While I agree with your point about history atrting and ending in the ME, other than the air power that we have floating in the ocean, we don't have enogh boots on the ground to do much of anything.
Mitch-
"All combat units are out of Iraq with only 50,000 troops left in an "advisory" role-..."
Dude, the army has learned the lesson that is burned into every Marine--EVERYONE IS A COMBAT PERSON.
(OK, I made that so 2010, all y'all get the message). Best dang Army I've ever seen, played with them a lot.
That means that there is a Corps that has enough footprint to enable re-entry and the bug-eaters have sufficient footprint to play.
Was never enough resources, of any kind, to play in Iran. All the 2 1/2 MRC bs, well, naked skinnydippers.
- Ned
Aside from the fact all combat troops are not out of Iraq... how many thousands do you think are and will remain in places like Kuwait? And is there any mention of us leaving over 21 mega air bases inside Iraq?
need to add the private military contractors/mercenaries. Last I checked they were the third largest force outside of US/UK forces in Afghanistan.
When Karzai asked for them leave, he was politely told to stfu. These guys must still be in Iraq. Unaccountable and totally deniable. Win Win baby! :P
duplicate deleted.
So how long do we need to babysit them for fucking EVER? They are on the other side of the globe, do we have to let them come ove here? And enough of the Jim Jones bible cool aid.
What do you mean by "we", mitchman? You're not a true American, but out for Israel's interests only. Come clean or nobody will take you seriously.
jews are so passionate about getting the US involved in ME wars, yet almost none of them serve in our military. There's no "we" in the equation. Join the IDF (and actually fight armed opponents, not waste little girls) if you care so much, but leave US out of it.
History did not start in the middle east. Only history of Jews and Arabs started there. Mine and everybody else's started wherever their native lands are. Jews have done a good job brainwashing a lot of people that that is a Holy Land and that the history started there. What hubris.
Hmmm. The Assyrians, the Egyptians, the Scythians, the Abyssinians the first farms (there is a reason it is called the Fertile Crescent). Just saying...
umm, India and Pakistan area was possibly earlier:
"Mehrgarh, one of the most important Neolithic (7000 BC to c. 2500 BC) sites in archaeology, lies on what is now the "Kachi plain" of today's Balochistan, Pakistan. It is one of the earliest sites with evidence of farming (wheat and barley) and herding (cattle, sheep and goats) in South Asia."[1].
The site is located near the Bolan Pass, to the west of the Indus River valley and between the present-day Pakistani cities of Quetta, Kalat and Sibi. Mehrgarh was discovered in 1974 by an archaeological team directed by French archaeologist Jean-François Jarrige, and was excavated continuously between 1974 and 1986. The earliest settlement at Mehrgarh—in the northeast corner of the 495-acre (2.00 km2) site—was a small farming village dated between 7000 BCE–5500 BCE."
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mehrgarh)
Point is, that there were many early civilisations that sprung up around the same time, more or less. The hundreth monkey effect? When is our civilsation's hundreth monkey moment, and will it advance, or end, our civilisation?
You are correct. I should have said that our history started in the Middle East. Without question, other civilizations existed in other areas of the world. But in my reading, most of the peoples that created what today constitutes Europe and North America and their cultures came from the ME. Thanks for your post. You have no argument from me.
I suppose we need to set a timeframe, because (at least in my Nordic/Germanic ethno-history), I can't find a lot of Middle East influence until Rome and then Christianity arrived, and subsumed the existing Pagan religions. I think that the really deep influence in the European, and thus N. American, cultural habits (hopefully those aren't being lost, but....) of inventiveness, movement, engineering and so forth lie in something much simpler and prejudice-free....winter...Planning was required, maybe moving, maybe raiding, etc...or there wouldn't be enough to eat to get through the winter and the tribe dies. Plus, in winter people had lots of time on their hands (no farming, inclimate weather) to think, plan, repair to be ready for spring planting, game migrations, how to do it better and easier and get more yield. Just some ideas of mine from my readings and musings (being a gardener helps me consider these musings).
This is a nice discussion, btw..:)
This is a nice discussion, btw..:)
Thank you. I feel the same way.
I think it was in Guns, Germs and Steel that I read of the ME roots of European society and its expansion from the ME. I also remember having read it in a couple of other books, The Creators by Daniel Boorstin among them. I think you will agree that in North America the European influence has dominated (it killed every native that got in its way). Obviously, our number system is called Arabic numerals (although I believe it was the Indians that discovered the concept of the zero).
Your point about the time frame is also very good. My only other recollection is the one that always calls the intersection of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers "The Cradle of Civilization" but I will grant you that it may be an example of the hubris made reference to in an earlier post.
Cheers.
"I think you will agree that in North America the European influence has dominated (it killed every native that got in its way)."
Yes, I agree. That's why I am thankful for my grandfather taking me to an old Objibwe man to learn some of their ways when I was young. That learning really helps and grounds me, especially when I am backpacking, fishing or hunting.
And this "of course" is why all our banks use Greek, Roman and Etruscan elements. After all, the Greeks were only in a state of near constant war with Persia.... (i.e. the middle east)
Besides, as they say, who do you mean by "we" white man?
Of course we use those....I didnt mean to imply that people of Northern European descent don't use anything from other cultures, clearly All cultures borrow ideas from their interactions with other cultures (believe me, I am extremely glad we use the middle-eastern number system, instead of the Roman).
Why do Germans have a reputation/affinity for engineering? Why do the Swiss for banking? Why the Romans for all sorts of administration? Why did the British conceive the Magna Carta? Why the Japanese for industrial efficiency? Where do these "stereotypes" or cultural leanings come from? That is what I was trying to explore. I have lived in and travelled Europe (ok, 20 years ago...), and as an outsider, noticed a very pronounced "cultural change" going from, for example, southern Italy or France to northern...I just like to speculate on the "why's and how's". I am not always right, in fact may be totally out in left-field, but I do try to get outside my amurrrican box, and correct myself when new data discredits my previous thoughts.
btw, your "white man" comment has no meaning to me, there is only one race, the human race. Let's hope we don't require an ET invasion or something to finally figure that out. My homeschooled kids learn from me that there is only one race, the human one, hopefully they will be able to live outside of racialist thinking box of past and present generations in power.
FWIW, I rather like what we know of Etruscan culture...
Conventional Wisdom (as well as elementary school history books) says that the story of Western civilization begins in Sumer in the 23rd Century B.C.E. (with a nod to winter). Located in in the Euphrates-Tigris alluvial plain, south of Baghdad, Iraq. Sumer predates the 23rd Century B.C.E., but no readable records exist before then, so that is the date used.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumer
Climate stabilized enough for civilizations to begin forming about 10k years ago. Or so I hear.
Watch journey of man
http://www.shoppbs.org/product/index.jsp?productId=1402989
Modern day genetics has traced our beginnings to one village in Africa. Fascinating video series...Can't wait to tell my southern family that we started out Black....
Dang, only one village? Was Barry around for that? ;-) ?
- Ned
Something many don't like to admit to....
Robert Briffault in the "Making of Humanity"
"It was under the influence of the arabs and Moorish revival of culture and not in the 15th century, that a real renaissance took place. Spain, not Italy, was the cradle of the rebirth of Europe. After steadily sinking lower and lower into barbarism, it had reached the darkest depths of ignorance and degradation when cities of the Saracenic world, Baghdad, Cairo, Cordova, and Toledo, were growing centers of civilization and intellectual activity. It was there that the new life arose which was to grow into new phase of human evolution. From the time when the influence of their culture made itself felt, began the stirring of new life.
"It was under their successors at Oxford School (that is, successors to the Muslims of Spain) that Roger Bacon learned Arabic and Arabic Sciences. Neither Roger Bacon nor later namesake has any title to be credited with having introduced the experimental method. Roger Bacon was no more than one of apostles of Muslim Science and Method to Christian Europe; and he never wearied of declaring that knowledge of Arabic and Arabic Sciences was for his contemporaries the only way to true knowledge. Discussion as to who was the originator of the experimental method....are part of the colossal misinterpretation of the origins of European civilization. The experimental method of Arabs was by Bacon's time widespread and eagerly cultivated throughout Europe.
"Science is the most momentous contribution of Arab civilization to the modern world; but its fruits were slow in ripening. Not until long after Moorish culture had sunk back into darkness did the giant, which it had given birth to, rise in his might. It was not science only which brought Europe back to life. Other and manifold influence from the civilization of Islam communicated its first glow to European Life.
"For Although there is not a single aspect of European growth in which the decisive influence of Islamic Culture is not traceable, nowhere is it so clear and momentous as in the genesis of that power which constitutes the permanent distinctive force of the modern world, and the supreme source of its victory, natural science and the scientific spirit.
"The debt of our science to that of the Arabs does not consist in startling discoveries or revolutionary theories, science owes a great deal more to Arab culture, it owes its existence. The Astronomy and Mathematics of the Greeks were a foreign importation never thoroughly acclimatized in Greek culture. The Greeks systematized, generalized and theorized, but the patient ways of investigation, the accumulation of positive knowledge, the minute method of science, detailed and prolonged observation and experimental inquiry were altogether alien to the Greek temperament. Only in Hellenistic Alexandria was any approach to scientific work conducted in the ancient classical world.What we call science arose in Europe as a result of new spirit of enquiry, of new methods of experiment, observation, measurement, of the development of mathematics, in a form unknown to the Greeks. That spirit and those methods were introduced into the European world by the Arabs.
"It is highly probable that but for the Arabs, modern European civilization would never have arisen at all; it is absolutely certain that but for them, it would not have assumed that character which has enabled it to transcend all previous phases of evolution."
John William Draper in the "Intellectual Development of Europe"
"I have to deplore the systematic manner in which the literature of Europe has continued to put out of sight our obligations to the Muhammadans. Surely they cannot be much longer hidden. Injustice founded on religious rancour and national conceit cannot be perpetuated forever. The Arab has left his intellectual impress on Europe. He has indelibly written it on the heavens as any one may see who reads the names of the stars on a common celestial globe."
Hey Belrev, according to the creation in Genesis, we are all descended from the patriarchs of the Gentile, Jew, and Arab (Adam, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Ishmael). Where are you from? Read the story of creation in Genesis. All of mans history is a footnote to the two types of trees in the Garden.
Are you saying that everyone alive today is descended from Abraham? If you are, did none of the other men alive with Abraham have children who survived? Or are you saying only that all Jews and Arabs are descended from Abraham? Abraham > Isaac & Ishmaal.
According to Genesis, everyone is descended from Adam (a gentile). DNA studies verify we all share 99.9% of the same genetic code (Genesis-like unto like). After the Babylon rebellion, there was a flood, only Noah and his family were left to repopulate. From Noah's line came Abraham (a gentile before becoming a Jew), Isaac (line of the Jews propagated through his son Jacob-[renamed Israel] ), Ishmael/Esau (line of the Arabs). Bottom line is we are all related to a common ancestor unless you believe in evolution. Evolution implies we all got here by chance. The Bible is a Jewish book made up of 66 individual books. 64 of the books were written by Jews and 2 by Gentiles (Ruth and Luke). The lineage of Christ (a Jew) included Gentiles and Arabs (Ruth was the line of Ishmael). That is, He embodied all races, and ethnic peoples. Hope this helps..
Abraham > Isaac > Jacob > twelve sons, whose offspring became the 12 tribes of Israel, each named for one of Jacob's sons.
The term Jew was coined to denote those from the tribe of Judah - Abraham's great grandchild. The term was later used to refer to those from the two tribes of the southern kindom of Israel (Judah and Benjamin) who were conquered and carried off to Babylon. The ten northern tribes had been conquered approximately 200 years earlier and have disappeared from history. No one knows who they are, so the term Jew cannot apply to them. Abraham never became a Jew. He died before the term was created. And the Bible traces the lineage of Jesus back to King David (through Boaz, Ruth's husband). Jesus is presented as a Jew in the New Testament. Nowhere is the point made that he was part Arab or that he represented them during his life. The New Testament says he came to his own and his own rejected him - his own being the group of people called Jews at that time. Finally, the New Testament says that Jesus, as the final sacrifice, died once, for all. It is in that act that your statement He embodied all races, and ethnic peoples becomes true.
Thank you for your response but it still does not clarify my question to you . You posted (Adam, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Ishmael). Did you mean (Adam > Noah > Abraham > Isaac & Ishmael). That would imply that everyone came from Abraham. I know enough to guess you meant that everyone came from Noah (according to Genesis), but others may not know that. I'm just trying to clarify that point.
You are correct. The term Jew came from a future tribe- Judah. Abraham made a covenant with God which included circumcision to complete the deal. It was 19 years from the time of the covenant till he got "cut". The term Jew is a generic reference to the covenant. take care my friend..
Rich I will respond more a little later as I have an engagement. It's awesome that you know so much...God Bless...
Sound liks you have-a-grip. Respond if you wish. I think I understand what you were saying in your initial post. If others are confused, hopefully they won't be if they read through to this point.
you might have just proved his (Belravs) point.
FWIW, the Vedas, older pagan and animalistic beliefs predate genesis.
Abraham predates Genesis for that matter. Conventional Wisdom claims that Genesis was written by Moses as the Children of Israel approached Cannan after they left Egypt.
good point
Rich, read the book. Moses wrote the first 5 books of the Old Testament by Divine inspiration and revelation, as the Jewish tribes wandered the desert for 40 years (one generation). They spent this time wandering because of disobedience. The Bible (which means book) is fascinating in that it is linear history. Where we've been, where we are and where we are going. It is also the most widely published and archeologically verified work in history.
Would divine inspiration have used symbols familiar to the folks alive today to write the book of Genesis? Gigabytes, processing power, crunch the numbers, fly to Europe? I think it is obvious that divine inspiration would have used language, terminology, symbols, and yes, even myths, that were familiar to the people alive when the book was written. Is it inconceivable that divine inspiration could have used myths / symbols/ language familiar to the people of the day (the Bael myth, for instance) to get across points about God? The first five books of the Bible are full of symbolisms used by the Bael myth and the enuma elish. Sing loud praises to him who rides the clouds is one such reference.
My point to tomdub was that Moses would probably have had the language of the Vedas, older pagan and animalistic beliefs available to him as he wrote Genesis - since he was well educated in the court of the King of Egypt.
Thank you, gentlemen, for the discussion. I learned something from you who have dug deeper into this topic than I have (I dig into all sorts of things, spiritual, religious, economic, political, scientific, etc., in my quest for reality, I don't always have the time to master everything while trying to find the "Grand Unifying Theory, Holy Grail, Truth", and so forth).
Much to consider, research and, as always, learn.
Again, thank you.
:)
Ashkenazi Jews are descended for the most part from the Khazars. They have no biblical right to claim Israel as the land given to them by G-d. On the other hand, european north americans have no right to occupy North America since the Indians were there before.... and on it goes...Frankly let the zionists have Israel. Would you want them in your neighbourhood?
They have no biblical right to claim Israel as the land given to them by G-d.
Actually, I think they claim Israel as the land given to them by the United Nations.
http://www.newsweek.com/2010/06/03/the-dna-of-abraham-s-children.html
Note the date is June of 2010 for the article.
There is more interesting information here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi
yep - all Jews are brainwashing people as we speak. They sure aren't spending their time being normal people just like everyone else...<sarcasm off>
I know Tyler wants this blog to be free - but this anti-Semitic claptrap is fucking obnoxious.
Not all Jews support Israel. Judiasm/Israeli national policy aren't the same thing. Get the fuck over it. Yes, both supporters and detractors use this in their arguments - but that doesn't make it a fact.
Sometimes I can only shake my head at the level of hypocrisy people and institutions are capable of. While this little gem was uttered by the Israeli government mouthpiece, similar gems have come from every nation in the world, led by the USA, Great Britain, China, Russia and so on.
To be brutally honest, I just couldn't spout such utter nonsense (nor would I ever want to) without going red in the face and weak in the knees from the shame. Which explains why in the insane world we have allowed to be created and to which we are now tethered like a dog, only the sociopathic personalities we regularly elect to office as our "leaders" as well as the control systems' supporting characters can pull off the desired level of hubris and gaul such as the above.
And please don't give me that line of bullshit about how tough a world it is out there and that we need people such as this to keep us safe. The sociopaths of this world have deliberately created this insane and dangerous world precisely in order to be needed to deal with it. Just like our control freak egos constantly get us into trouble in order to be needed to save the ass it jeopardizes, so do our leaders bring us to the brink just so that they can pull us back. Of course, not before many lives and much treasure is senselessly wasted.
Wake up my friends. We are married to an physically and emotionally abusive partner. What's it going to take before we recognize that no amount of enabling with satisfy the sociopath we sleep with and that we need to cut them off at the knees, even it that means we experience intense pain for a few years? It's not going to get better until we make it better.
exactly! we've allowed the mentally ill to control us! wtf!!??!
CD. They are all sociopaths. The Iranians as well as the rest of them. The purpose of the Iranian nuclear program is not defensive. It threatens every Sunni state in the area-including all of those oil producing slave states that are so near and dear to our leaders' hearts. I am confident that with Iran deploying increasingly sophisticated missile delivery capability, the Europeans are not sleeping anywhere near as well in their beds tonight either.
That is why they are all squealing like stuck pigs. There is a new bully on the block and no one wants to take him on. Even the Israelis are taking the theatrical approach of "hold me back! hold me back!" but really do not mean to take the bully on unless they arre joined by a couple of friends from the gang.
"The purpose of the Iranian nuclear program is not defensive."
Wow. I'm glad you're not the captain of the ship. Your judgement stinks.
Do you have a counterargument regarding Iranian intentions?
Mitchman,
I think I covered everyone with my first paragraph.
Sorry CD. You have perhaps heard about the ravages of age on the mind...:-)
LOL
I understand. All men suffer pretty much the same progression, myself included.
First the little brain fails us, followed closely (and for those very special few, preceded) by the bigger brain. :>)
You have a rueful smirk of identification from me. Now back to the controversy!
often talked to young lad about the "little head" slurping all of the blood from the "big head".
I think he's done better than I; who really knows.
- Ned
Mitchman,
I wouldn't be too sure on that "Hold me back!! Hold me back!!" part. The Jews (especially Netanyahu) have a certain tendency to be very resolute on certain issues. They don't suffer from the American illness of grandly announcing and telegraphing military decisions 48+ hours beforehand. Ask Syria, Lebanon, Yasser Arafat, or the people in Gaza. They tend to blow the holy shit out of people they see as enemies and clarify intentions later.
..and all the "Ted K's" have a certain tendency to make offensive blanket statements about whole groups of people rendering their opinion unreliable at best and completely foolish at worst.
Ditto.
There is a very deep, dark connection between the asswipes who run our gov (and basically the planet) and these joos.
Remember that moron, "drug warrior" Biden:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAZmO80dLfE
And all those pretty much unanimous resolutions of support for the joos in Congress?
Seriously, there's something unholy under the surface as to why these psychopaths kowtow constantly to the big nosed, ugly troglodytes.
You mean 'Joe Bite-Me'-that gas-bag?
Yep.
- Ned
Excellent post, CI.
It is blatantly stupid for a country that open flaunts their disdain for the UN Sec Council to whine about another nation's attitude towards same.
Doubly so for the NPT.
Iran is a signatory of the IAEA, Israel is not. The USA is a signatory as well but unlike Iran who allows IAEA inspectors into their facility, the USA has never allowed inspectors into one of their bomb facilities.
What facilities does Iran allow the IAEA inspectors into? What facilities does the USA not allow inspectors into? Your sentence would imply that both facilities are the same. They are not. Iran allows inspectors into it's uranium enrichment facilities, not bomb facilities. Does the USA still have bomb facilities? Do they allow inspectors into their uranium enrichment facilities for their nuclear power plants (the equivalent of Iran)?
You are trying to say something, but you don't get it said. Compare like with like.
"Does the USA still have bomb facilities?"
It is rumored that the USA has weapons of mass destruction.
I assumed bomb facilities (in reference to Iran) meant places to make nuclear bombs. My question still stands: does the U.S. have such facilities? At least publically, the US claims it is no longer making nuclear bombs. Do we still have the capacity / facilities to make such bombs? I don't know.
I think everyone should have a backup nuclear generator in their homes.
We are all responsible and should have access to cheap, reliable energy.
There's a lot to be said for minimizing distribution losses,
but is there enough fissile anything for 'everyone' to have
even a small reactor bed next to their flower bed?
I don't know about you, but I have neighbors that have difficulty finding their way out of paper bags while equipted with flashlights....not so sure I want them responsible for a nuke plant in their homes, no matter how small...:)
I'm guessing the tardbiscuits in your hood have access to an internal combustion powerplant or three (generally with a few thousand pounds of crappy SUV components attached), no?
yes, they do. The "other" internal combustion powerplants (jet skis, atv's, etc) are really what scare me, experiencing them in use...ugh. But usually when they fail due to lack of maintenance, they don't affect me too much...a nuke powerplant faling, on the other hand, could really make for a bad day...
"tardbiscuits"...lol, that there is just funny! thanks!
Don't forget the several guns they have scattered around their houses and SUVs.
"It is totally unacceptable that a country that blatantly violates decisions of the United Nations Security Council and the International Atomic Energy Agency, and ignores its commitment to the Non-Proliferation Treaty charter, will enjoy the fruits of using nuclear energy," according to Foreign Ministry spokesman Yossi Levy said
ORLY? Let us see, Israel refuses to join the NPT, Israel is the WORST OFFENDER in breaking UN rules, etc. Wow, talk about the pot calling the kettle black... Am thoroughly convinced now that Israel has no shame.
"We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population." --- David Ben-Gurion, May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, A Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978.
"Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that... I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it." --- Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, October 3, 2001
Yet Ahamadinejad says: "I don't believe their American masters would let them attack," referring to Israel.
Which quote is correct? Sharon's? or Ahamdinejad's? And is something true just because someone says it is?
I think Ahamadinejad was just saying that to insult israel. But, in reality I think sharon's is correct well, we'll see.....It really does come down to how obama feels though because Israel would need america's help if they did anything stupid. But, if anyone on either side does anything stupid it could cause a shitstorm it seems as though iran has got some bigger friends as of late. (with russia supplying the nuclear energy and china wanting to get in on there natural gas) Considering the us military running the drills over in korea and china not taking it kindly. Also china dumping some treasuries.
hold on to your seats ladies and gentlemen, looks to me like the lines are getting drawn and we are in for one hell of a ride....
And I'm thinking that things are going to settle down for a long while - now that Iran has gotton over the hurdle of activating the power plant. If electricity is really what they want, why would they jeapordize the chance of bringing the next plant on-line by misbehaving? I think they understand they can't have that 2nd power plant and bomb Israel at the same time. I'm guessing they are going to vote for the 2nd power plant, in spite of what you might hear their politicians say.
Agree about the lines, yet Israel is so shameless to accuse others when in fact Israel is the world's worst offender in not adhering to UN rules. Israel continues to do things against UN policy yet accuses Iran of not following the UN whereas Iran has singed the NPT and Israel continually refuses to. Sounds to me like Israel doth protest a bit too much.
"Before Israel dies, it must be humiliated and degraded. Allah willing, before they die, they will experience humiliation and degradation every day."
-Dr. Mahmud Al Zahar
"Peace for us means the destruction of Israel. We are preparing for an all-out war which will last for generations-Yasser Arafat
You will find the arabs are much more boastful, and therefore very quoteable.
“Gentile souls are of a completely different and inferior order. They are totally evil, with no redeeming qualities whatsoever.” …If every simple cell in a Jewish body entails divinity, is a part of God, then every strand of DNA is a part of God. Therefore, something is special about Jewish DNA. …If a Jew needs a liver, can you take the liver of an innocent non-Jew passing by to save him? The Torah would probably permit that. Jewish life has an infinite value,” he explained. “There is something infinitely more holy and unique about Jewish life than non-Jewish life".
– Chabad Lubavitch Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburgh in Jewish Week, April 26, 1996.
And this relates to Iran's new power plant how??
It relates to the post to which I replied. Enjoy your position as self appointed forum monitor, we're all so proud of you!
It helps if the posts stay generally on-topic. And a self-monitored forum is generally more pleasant to participate in.
The free market has determined that ZHers like OT posts, links to movies and music and lots of silly jokes and bad puns mixed in with the apocalyptic stories of the day.
And by the way, Dick, why did you criticize me for going OT with an outrageous Rabbi quote instead of the fellow who wrote the post with the over-the-top Arab quotes to which I responded?
perhaps you got junked because you are a bigoted asshat
Did I complain about being junked? Seems like a fairly useless "feature" to me.
... why did you criticize me for going OT ...
My bad. I meant my comment to apply to both posts. Poor execution on my part. My appologies.
No apology is necessary but I appreciate the sentiment.
I was wondering when you would show up....did the Megaphone call you?<g> Shalom.
Those sites, from the video, look like sitting ducks! I thought they were building their reactors inside a mountain to protect them. Also, it does not appear very secure, there is some military looking guy guarding a flimsy gate.
The CIA’s Green Movement in Iran Fizzled
I. The US sponsored Green Movement in Iran has now demonstrably failed in its project of overthrowing the Achmadinejad government. Back in 2006-2007, the Brzezinski-Nye-Trilateral “soft power” or “smart power” group attacked the stupidity of the neocon plan for a direct US military attack on Iran by pointing out the opportunities for staging a color revolution in Iran, just as the Brzezinski faction had successfully staged the Orange Revolution to install NATO puppets in Ukraine. Why attack Iran directly, argued Brzezinski and his friends, when a US puppet regime in Teheran could be used against Russia and China in much the same way these same people had played Afghanistan against the Soviet Union, with catastrophic results of the latter. The apex of these subversion efforts came in June 2009, with the so-called Twitter Revolution, which was celebrated with hysterical gloating in the Anglo-American media. The Mousavi-Rafsanjani faction left no doubt about its CIA and MI-6 parentage with its signature chant of “Death to Russia, Death to China.” The illusion of an easy coup in Iran has died hard in Washington and London. But by June 2010, the impotence of the Green forces in Iran had become evident. Hillary Clinton is even complaining that Achmadinejad now represents a military-backed government which has marginalized the mullahs, whom the US has demonized in public but privately relied on to prevent the economic modernization of Iran. This gives rise to the tendency to fall back on the previous neocon plan for some combination of direct military attack by Israel and the United States, combined with escalated subversion efforts among the Baluchis, Azeris, Arabs, Turkmen, and Kurds of Iran.
Russian Policy Now UncertainII. During the time that the neocons were attempting to launch aggression against Iran, that task was rendered much more difficult by pervasive uncertainty about the possible reaction of Russia. One of the targets of any bombing campaign against Iran would necessarily be the Bushehr nuclear reactor, being built by Russian technicians. Neocon war planners had to worry about events like the visit to Tehran of Russian President Vladimir Putin on October 16, 2007. During the Putin era, Russian media and figures like General Leonid Ivashov took the lead in calling attention to suddenly increases in US-UK war preparations, as in the case of Operation Byte, the attack on Iran proposed for Good Friday, April 6, 2007.4 While it was thought very unlikely that Russia would risk general war as a result of an attack on Iran, there remained nevertheless the question as to what Russia actually would do. This dangerous uncertainty was a very serious obstacle for the pro-war agitation by the neocons.
In this way, Putin was able to make a decisive contribution to the maintenance of world peace during the years after 9/11. As of mid-2010, it would appear that the foreign policy of Russian President Medvedev is momentarily evolving away from the fierce independence and Russian nationalism championed by Putin, and is placing more value on projects of cooperation with the NATO countries, sometimes obtained by unilateral concessions to the US. Part of this can be ascribed to the increasing influence of the free market ideologue Anatoly Chubais, the architect of the nomenklatura privatization of Soviet state property during the 1990s, whose concept of the modernization of the Russian economy depends very heavily on information technology, in which he portrays the United States as being in the lead. Newsweek has reported the approval of a new foreign policy outline drafted by the Russian foreign ministry which has allegedly gained provisional approval by President Medvedev. This document is entitled “Program for the Effective Exploitation on A Systemic Basis of Foreign Policy Factors for the Purposes of the Long-Term Development of the Russian Federation.” 5 The main immediate effect of the reported new Russian policy is the apparent willingness of the Kremlin to make important foreign policy concessions to the United States with very minimal returns. This in turn means that key unknowns surrounding a US attack on Iran have become less of a concern for the resurgent neocon war faction in Washington. This adds up to a situation in which an attack on Iran is now more likely.
The US-UK Hedge Fund Blitzkrieg Against the Euro FaltersIII. It is a grave error to imagine that normal relations with the Anglo-American financiers can be obtained in the current world depression through conciliatory behavior. The US-UK are experiencing cataclysmic instability in the form of a financial breakdown crisis, and this crisis impels these powers towards irrational, adventuristic, and aggressive behavior. A key lesson of the 1930s is that, when imperialist financier elites are faced by a disintegration of their fictitious speculative bubbles, they often respond with strategic flights forward of the most lunatic sort. In the wake of the 2007-2008 disintegration of the Anglo-American banking system, the New York and London elites have shown signs of going collectively bonkers, although these clinical tendencies have been primarily expressed in the area of their reactionary domestic socioeconomic policies. The specific form assumed by this tendency after the second half of 2008 involves the severe weakening of the US dollar as the world reserve currency by the creation of a $24 trillion credit line by the Federal Reserve, US Treasury, and FDIC for the purpose of bailing out the Wall Street zombie banks. This tidal wave of dollars led to a severe weakening of the US greenback on international markets during most of the second half of 2009. In late 2009 and early 2010 a group of Anglo-American hedge funds around Soros, Paulson, David Einhorn, and others launched a speculative attack against the government bonds of Greece, Spain, and Portugal, with the goal of using a crisis in the southern tier of the euro to bring on a panic flight of hot money out of the euro, thus collapsing that currency to Third World levels. Partly because of the countermeasures instituted by the German government, including the banning of naked credit default swaps on Euroland bonds and naked shorts of German stocks, and partly thanks to direct support from China, the planned Anglo-American blitzkrieg against the euro has now bogged down after eight months of effort, with the euro currently oscillating at a price of about $1.25 – $1.30. This means that, unless the city of London and Wall Street can come up with a new plan, the forces of world economic depression represented by $1.5 quadrillion of bankrupt and kited derivatives may now find a new victim, most likely in the form of either the British pound or the US dollar.
The immediate threat of a pound or dollar currency collapse is leading the ruling financier factions to reconsider a very dangerous flight forward in the form of an attack on Iran, precisely because such an aggression would likely lead to a blocking of the Straits of Hormuz or in any case to a serious disruption of one third of the world’s tanker traffic. Following the tested model of the Kippur war/oil boycott of October 1973, the US-UK financiers would bid up the price of oil to $500 or $1000 per barrel, thus creating enough demand for dollars to soak up much of the dollar overhang and prop up the greenback, at least for a time.
An Astronomical Oil Price As Salvation for The US DollarAs Jean-Michel Vernochet of the Réseau Voltaire has pointed out, the likely Iranian retaliation for the looming attack in terms of interdicting Hormuz and the Gulf is actually built into the US-UK war plan as a positive contribution towards saving the dollar by massively driving up the price of oil, which is of course still quoted mainly in dollars.6 Energy and Capital editor Christian A. DeHaemer, an oil market analyst, commented: “The last oil price shock in the Middle East was in 1990 when the United States invaded Iraq for invading Kuwait. The price per barrel of oil went from $21 to $28 on August 6… to $46 by mid-October. The looming Iran War is not priced in,” he warned in his newsletter. Iran has the third-highest oil reserves in the world and is second only to Saudi Arabia in production. If any action prevents the flow of Iranian oil, the price of “black gold” would soar, he added.’ (IsraelNationalNews.com)7
Playing The Arabs Against The IraniansOne important prerequisite for US aggression grows out of the Trilateral group’s strategy, starting from the Baker-Hamilton Iraq Study Group of 2006, of forming a block of the Sunni Arab nations against the Persian-speaking Iranian Shiites and their allies in the Lebanese Hezbollah and the Palestinian Hamas, as well as Syria. The Anglo-American hope for this tactic of divide and conquer is that hostility between Arabs and Persians will eclipse the more recent enmity between Jews and Arabs. “The Jews and Arabs have been fighting for one hundred years. The Arabs and the Persians have been going at (it) for a thousand,” wrote Jeffrey Goldberg on The Atlantic’s website.8
With many reports that the United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia are ready to support the US aggression, great importance must be attached to the current struggle over the future shape of the government of Iraq. Here The secular Shiite Allawi is a US puppet, while his rival Maliki prefers Iran. Sadr and his Mahdi army, closely linked to Iran, represent a key stumbling block for US intentions. The US requires an Iraqi puppet state which will pursue at least a pro-US neutrality in case of war, and above all prevent Iranian special forces or guerrillas from cutting the long US supply line alone Route Tampa from Kuwait City. This is why the question of the Iraqi government was so important that Vice President Biden had to make a special trip to Iraq in the vain hope of quickly setting up a suitable puppet regime there. If the Iraq army turns against US, the situation of US forces could become extraordinarily critical.
Geopol, I'd be interested in your source for this information.
Geopol's primary sources are 40 plus years of intensive study of geopolitics and a very thick Rolodex.
Keep rowing Geopol, I'm in the back bailing like mad. :>)