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Iran Offers To Escort Gaza Ships
Remember those 3 nuclear-armed subs we wrote about, that Israel had positioned off the coast of Iran, a development which promptly got lost in news about the whole flotilla incident? Well, they may be getting some more press time soon. Jerusalem Post reports that in the latest escalation step, Iran has offered to provide military protection in the form of warship escorts for Gaza activist ships. Needless to say, this introduces another huge variable into the game theoretical stability equation: not a single party has "cooperated" yet, even as more and more parties decide to defect. We are increasingly concerned that this will not have a favorable outcome, as all it takes is one stray button or trigger getting pushed for events to get beyond the point of no return.
Iran would be willing to send its Revolutionary Guard members to accompany further aid ships to Gaza, Iranian supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei said on Sunday in an interview cited by Reuters.
"The naval wing of the Revolutionary Guard is ready to assist the peace flotilla to Gaza with all its effort and capabilities," Khamenei's Revolutionary Guard spokesman Ali Shirazi stated.
"If the Supreme Leader issues an order for this then the Revolutionary Guard naval forces will do their best to secure the ships," Shirazi said. "It is Iran's duty to defend the innocent people of Gaza."
Hopefully yesterday's peaceful ship boarding will cool tempers at least marginally, although Bloomberg now reports that "two Israeli ministers said they
opposed an international inquiry into the deadly naval raid on a
Gaza Strip-bound aid flotilla as the United Nations discussed
options for such a commission."
“There shouldn’t be an international inquiry,” Finance
Minister Yuval Steinitz said today. “If an inquiry is required
it should be handled by parliament’s Foreign Affairs and Defense
Committee.” Minister of Science and Technology Daniel
Hershkowitz agreed and said he wouldn’t trust a probe that
included Turkey.
Oddly enough even with the massive escalation in geopolitical tensions in the Persian Gulf, crude has been on a downward trajectory: Is the supply and demand curve so skewed that nothing but China's liquidity situation is a factor in determining oil price any more? Should such Iran-Israel escalations have occurred in the summer of 2008, oil would likely be at $250. Then again, even with estimated supply and demand curves completely irrelevant in this most critical of commodities, Bernanke, you will recall, sees no liquidity bubbles anywhere. And when was the last time the Supreme Chairman was wrong?
Update for our Russian-speaking readers: in the just released unedited version of the radio transmission between the Israeli Navy and the Gaza Flotila, someone in perfectly accentless Russian chimes in: "zaebal uzhe skotina" at 4:21 into the recording, presumably in retaliation for some earlier pleasantries caught on the tape. This just gets better and better.
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Please refer your comments to the Office of the Special Envoy To Monitor and Combat Anti-Semitism .
http://www.state.gov/g/drl/seas/index.htm
Ha ha! I though that was a joke ...and it turns out to be true? What a joke... you guys are kidding me!
I think you have just officially reached your quota on asshat. Course it's kind of tough to tell through your pointy white hood.
Colonel in the israeli army, huh? Nice.
You see a different history than me evidently.......
Iran, is pushing this.........they have been pushing the entire world around, for years..and all we do is WARN......to whit, they promptly tell us to get fooked.
Israels TRIED to mind their own business since 1948..............never yet, have they been left alone.
If you were surrounded by 250 Billion folks wanting your ass dead, and gone,what would you HAVE them do?.
Your view of history must be VERY short...............time wise.
I'm sure the 'chosen people' are the type to mind their own business... Get a clue. Wake the fuck up.
I love u armchair historians who have been educated by the great jew sponsored universities of this country. Reading your text books published by the great jew publishing companies. Please take your head out of the sand before I call u a fool.
There's a Jew behind you...BOO!
i want to know where the other 243 billion people are hiding (string theory?). seems to impeach the rest of the post.
Think of how different things would have been if they had gotten part of some island nation, like New Zealand, or part of Norway or Sweden (punish that neutrality), after WWII, instead of being placed into the heart of future resource conflicts...though I guess the latter may have been the primary idea from the start. Whose idea was that again?
BTW this might have saved the ancient, insightful, artistic, and otherwise wondrous history of Judaism as a religion and source for many other interesting religions, from being turned into a facist puppet revelationary joke by association. Though the idea of moving the whole of a people to "somewhere less troublesome" has usually failed in the past, so I retract my initial implied statement that the Jews should have been moved to prevent dealing with problematic locality after WWII.
I order everyone to read the above comment and study it. Hold it in your hands and ponder its wisdom then, once awakened, revel in the glory of its truth.
I am Chumbawamba.
i have thought the jewish victims of the nazis (still living that is) should have gotten a nice slice of bavaria. much more fair (but as i believe you said, sadly probably accurately, even the victorious europeans were not eager for a jewish homeland in their midst).
Thank you, profusely; you have had my respect and interest for a long while and such praise and support means a lot to me. Careful though, eventually I'll say something misguided and/or ignorant, let me know when you see it and give me an educational chumba smack down.
AH you are of course right about the strangle hold on mainstream thought.
unsafe thread..beware the haters who sit on junk buttons.
Go ahead, make my day Lol ha ha stupid kid shit.
Rolling a joint, sayen fuck it, world is nuts, wheres the love folks, arent we all in this shit together?
Cant we friggen work it out better than this, we the folks who went to the moon. Damn , i am dissappointed in us.
The war is between us and greed, ignorance and the banksters.
Lets just fight those 3 together and learn to appreciate each other.
The pooch is already screwed by Israel.
Many of the UN countries know this. It is truly sad that American major news media (MSM) is so lackluster, though it makes sense when you realize who financially owns the major media within the country.
ZH is great alternative MSM. Turn off the TV and stop reading MSM newspapers in America, total waste of time (unless you are suicidal and follow Cramer on CNBC).
MarketTruth == GeopoliticalTruth
Perhaps you should've scribed your hate in German. Because that's the language you'd be speaking right now had the Furher had his way.
How things evolve...Scenario – The Middle East June 2010. Tensions simmer. Khameini orders Iranian navy to escort next “aid” armada to Gaza shores. Egypt allows access for the ships through the Suez Canal. Furious diplomacy takes place. The hotlines ring all night. Netanyahu states unequivocally that the Iranian ships will not be allowed to enter the Mediterranean. The Arab world charts the process of the ships on live feed. The US beefs up carrier group in Gulf. Ahmedinejad makes belligerent speech on Press TV. The Arab street is galvanised. The evil zionists will be vanquished. Israel placed on total war footing. The first Iranian ship into the Mediterranean fires on a British Navy vessel. Many killed. NATO responds. Turkey withdraws from the alliance and sends her navy and air force to support the Arab nations. World War Three breaks out. World Cup in South Africa is cancelled. Casualties on all sides climb. Diplomats sidelined. Small battlefield tactical nukes are used to try and stop the horde of Iranian soldiers streaming across the Iraq border. Much of the region is destroyed. Millions die.
Moral of the Story (MOTS) – The minds of the leaders and the people are the place where all things start. Beware of self-fulfilling prophecies ! If there is a war there will be no real winners. Humanity must get over the idea of military triumphalism. The win/lose paradigm will become redundant. The universe is stable, ordered, benevolent and expansive. A certain command and control structure must prevail however. Isaiah’s prophecy of swords and plowshares unfolds over time. World Peace 2050 anyone...
Adam, another MOTS:
It is difficult to predict the future. Especially in the ferocious Middle East.
Humanity must get over the idea of military triumphalism.
Agreed - but it's your Likud-nik buddies that haven't gotten the message.
Euh, no. Airpower rules.
yes that north vietnamese air force certainly bested that of the u.s. iraq and afghanistan further proved it beyond dispute.
If there is a war there will be no real winners. Humanity must get over the idea of military triumphalism. The win/lose paradigm will become redundant
This is not possible. *All* Important Problems between humans are eventually solved by violence; Minor problems are eventually solved by trade!!
If the middle east blows itself up, the rest of the planet wins big: We get out of the Oil-dependency trap, we hopefully get rid of saudi-arabia and their islamic faschism; Wall Street & Frankfurt blows up and dies because the losses will blow straight trough the stupendous reserves provided by governments off the backs of taxpayers and globalistation dies - good riddance to that too.
I am all for it - the current direction is clearly unsustainable and change is politically impossible.
Tyler, I am not an expert on the oil markets but it seems to me that the disconnect between events in the Middle East and the slide in oil is indicative of how the financial players outweigh the PHYS players in the market. No?
my 1st thought too.
We got (are getting) so raped
Ditto.
Oil price is an economic phenomenon now not a finance phenomenon.
Call it, 'Revenge of the Physical Economy".
Everyone is going broke because the current fuel prices are still extremely high.
$20 oil - which means lots of oil sloshing around in the markets - and you have growth. +$35 oil and there is no growth, no output. Nada, zilch.
Peeps are broke, that's why a blowout of a cutting edge, tech- advanced well in the GOM hasn't effected prices, that's why an 'incident' in the Straits of Hormuz won't much, either. Peeps would still be broke.
CAVEAT: $20 oil would have to happen soon to restart growth. Ten years from now means the end of the commercial world as we know it now has happened already.
steve,
"that's why an 'incident' in the Straits of Hormuz won't much, either."
Uh Huh, let's have ONE and see.............my $ is oil ZOOMS.
IRAN has already stated they would shut it down........short of massive US intervention, they can, and would.
I call it the revenge of the CPI basket. What wasn't in it deflating, what was in it inflating.
No, it's because the "oil markets" know enough to look past all this bullshit.
Start separating what they (both sides) say from what they do.
I think it has more to do with lower demand and the rising of the dollar.
mitchman:
that's what derivatives are for. what do you want/need?? supply or demand???
it's like baghdad ben and the printing press; we're just here to pump you up.............
Turkey, and Iran may have something in common - condemnation of Israel. An unlikely alliance?
geminiRX
Both Turkey and Iran want to be players in the ME. Bigger than they are now anyway. Turkey develops some street cred and Iran once again thumbs it's nose at the US.
Shift is power is fun to watch.
Kinda like Leftists and Islamists.
+ $70
No rather kinda like Williams Shuster's book describing the Persian dream of a Mohomedan democracy called The Strangling of Persia. Now William being an enlightened very early 20th century American (before teddy roosevelt infected the joint with adventurism) was complaining about the evils of Russia and Britannia strangling Persia. But of coarse the good old U-S-of-A picked up the mantle post WWII and now demand was so strong strong among New Yorkers to copy the Brit-Russia style in a new ZBIG play that they had to republish the book in 2005.
Iran will have to take its naval vessels through Suez......
This story smells of Bullshit.
However Armed Iranian guards on the cargo vessels might be a option if both sides wish to escalate.
If that's what they want to do, they can expect torpedoes and or anti-ship missiles the second they breach the imaginary "international waters" line.
As to war and rumours of war, Iran is already at war with Israel, according to Iran. This situation is simpler than its being made out to be.
They could disable the rudder(s) as has been talked about before. Then Israel takes the ship(s) in, and they have Iranian hostages.
Kind of a nice shoe on the other foot scenario.
Unless the ships turn out to be remotely controlled, and explode with the commandos onboard.
Ever hear of a fire ship?
Hell, they might even make for ramming speed against some of the Israeli warships.
That said, I don't think the Israelis would try to board a warship. It would be much easier for them to just sink it. If they try to board it, they won't be facing unarmed civillians, but marines from a foreign nation with unknown armaments, who are possibly suicidally fanatic.
Great point re never know what's going to happen when you have whackos like the Iranians.
stick it
Absolutely right. How could anybody possibly think that Iran is anything but stable and just?
The Persians are a proud and intelligent people. They are not "whackos". Slander will get you nowhere.
OK, point taken. I overgeneralized again, a personal flaw. You are right.
How about Whacko Ayatollahs?
The ones who rise in rank are whackos. Rank and file are often there because of a) conscription/obligatory military service and b) possibility of stable income. The combination of theocratic kleptocracy and socialism makes for a lot of unemployed and under employed, and they have a lot of young men over there. BTW being posted on an iranian navy boat would be extroardinarily dangerous. In any sort of serious conflict with the U.S. they'd all be sunk withing the first hour or so.
with the possible exception of the word "conscription", your first three sentences describe the u.s. as well. also the last war game the u.s. ran on this very scenario had the opposite result. the nyt had a story on the u.s. officer who took the iranian side. but that was just a game.
Kool aide dispenser alert!
No doubt:
Those Iranian lunatics might just board a ship full of humanitarian activists armed with wheelchairs, guns ablazin.
"It would be much easier for them to just sink it."
Just as they once attempted to do to the U.S.S. Liberty -- but in that case they failed to sink it, but did manage to murder 37 US Navy seamen.
Interesting to note that one of the survivors of the U.S.S. Liberty happened to be aboard the flotilla recently assaulted in multiple acts of war by the Israeli military.
The invaded vessels under foreign flags (Turkey, Sweden, Ireland) in international waters, murdered some of the crew and/or passengers, then kidnapped them to their country (Israel).
Yet NATO does nothing? What exactly is the purpose of NATO, other than as a vacuum for people's taxes.....
Also interestesting to note that the US Navy admiral involved in that Israeli coverup was yet another McCain, father to a recent dullard and presidential candidate, John McCain (you might recall he bombed his very own aircraft carrier), who, if recent information is correct, likewise rolled over on his fellow military men -- this time by with the coverup of military POWs left behind in Vietnam (probably transferred to prisons in either China, the old Soviet Union, or both).
All Iran needs to do is staff a Bass boat with their naval personnel, fly a flag, and publicly declare the vessel.
Great "visual"
I am thinking that if Iran were to put troops on a cargo ship, then it would no longer be a humanitarian mission.
Isreal has played its cards... Now its Irans turn. Iran needs to pull the same trick the US pulled with Kuwait during the Iran vs Iraq war. That is, reflag the next humanitarian boats as Iranian flagged vessels, and include their naval patrol vessels for protection and then go for gaza at full speed. If they really wanted to annoy Isreal, they should include in the fleet some Turkey and possibly Greece ships flying those NATO flags.
Isreal has to decide if it wants a shooting war with NATO and IRAN at the same time.
Ponder it...
I could well foresee the day when an allied Turkey and Iran battle Israel -- and who could really blame them, given the unending hubris of the Israelis....
Funny all the internet lawyers here. Its this one's fault its those damn Jews. No one mentions that Egypt is participating in and supporting this lawful blockade. I guess cause there not killing Jews this week there not the good guys.
Hubris you want to talk about Hubris. If you weren't so hate-filled ignorant that would almost be funny. How many time's do the Iranian's have to stick there fingers in things before before we mention their Hubris. How many bombs and rockets do they have to provide to terrorists before they become a problem? How many 16 year old girls do they have to shoot down in there own streets before we condemn them?
How many of you f-ing racist's spent 1/10th this amount of time on the sinking of the South Korean ship? Guess it wasn't important enough for you, no Jews to blame there.
+ 1000
Very little commentary on the N. Koreans.
Plenty of talk about big bad Israel.
although the u.s. sends (has sent) some food, fuel and money to north korea, it is not anything like the scale of the billions in cash, weaponry and priceless diplomatic/military protection that the u.s. gives israel. blanket approvals of whatever north korea does do not routinely pass unanimously or nearly so through congress. the major news outlets do not post propaganda from north korea, essentially not critiqued, as "news". it is this far more than the relative evil of israel vs. other evil doers, that sticks in the craw.
Funny all the internet lawyers here. Its this one's fault its those damn Jews.
Another hillarious attempt at shifting blame.
First of all I didn't pay for the N. Korean submarine. But all those israeli gunboats, even the bullets that went into the heads of the unarmed humanitarians, I helped pay for.
You Likud-niks say this same garbage all the time. I'm supposed to pay your way and then have no voice in what kind of stunts you pull with that aid? We killed the British and drove them out over 'taxation without representation'.
Then the Egypt thing ... what a lap dog Egypt is in it's current form. As you must know, we pay the Egyptians several billion FRN's every year to do what we tell them to do which is what the Israelis tell us to tell them to do.
The Egyptian ruling types know they can take the money and play along or ... get the Sadam treatment.
You are the racist trying your damdest to support your ethnic cleansing bs.
This is simply a long string of incoherent babbling. I mean, seriously.
I will attempt to refute what little there is of your argument.
The South Korean ship sinking is a big deal and it was furiously discussed here, so just because you have a (not surprisingly) selective memory doesn't mean we are hypocrites. Also, in that case, it was a military ship that was taken out, which is at least a legitimate target, and whatever problem is there is between the North and South Koreans.
In this case, you had a humanitarian aid convoy carrying known and vetted humanitarian aid supplies that was violently boarded with international peace activists aboard being shot and killed. Why should it surprise anyone that Israel is coming under severe criticism for it? It shouldn't. To any rational human being, this attack on a wide open peace convoy was absolutely beyond the pale. And it seems Israel has a long record of carrying out actions that are beyond the pale, including the rape of Gaza in 2009, the continuing siege of Gaza, Jenin, Sabra & Shatila, to name a few, and now this. So it should surprise only he most obtusely uninformed neandertal that this attack on civilians by Israel wouldn't be considered a justifiable act by normal rational human beings.
Your point about Egypt participating in the blockade is well-taken, but all it means is that Hosni Mubarak is every bit as a big a cowardly mother fucking douchebag as Netanyahooo is. He's a piece of shit. A big hot one foot long asshole-tearing Cleveland steamer. They all are. The Fatah "leadership" in the West Bank is a coopted nest of stooges. They're all scumbags and they all need to be strung up on lamp posts. But again, it is Israel that interdicted a peace convoy and killed members of one boat who tried to defend themselves from a barbaric attack by all accounts coming out, now that the passengers on the boats who became Israeli hostages are finally being let go.
I am Chumbawamba.
Wow you guys tell it.!
Hosni Mubarak is every bit as a big a cowardly mother fucking douchebag as Netanyahooo is.
Thanks to Yassir Arafat and his PLO thugs, no sane person will ever again allow Palestinians on their land. Every country that gave asylum to this scumbag was thanked by the Nobel Peace Price Winner, Arafat, trying to forment the overthrow of the government. In jordan the PLO tried to kill the royal family.
Well, word gets around, now while the palestinians can be used as disposible weapons against the jews, should the pally's ever succeed in driving the jews into the sea, they will go in right after!
Nobody wants them around - except perhaps European lefties, which are notoriously wrong about everything.
Just talked about the North Koreans actually, now talking about Israel. They already legally declared war by a military commissioned raid on a Turkish flagged ship. NATO treaty means that Israel is at war with NATO. Israel know zionist owned US executive won't buy that so has driven the wedge into Turkey and the US knowing the idiot Peres lost Turkey already last year. I would trust the rule of law in Iran and record on corruption in Iran over that of Israel anytime. Ask Iran's jews, those with the best parliamentary representation in the world for minorities that money didn't have to buy, which country they would feel safest in?
Jerusalem 2010 meeting coming up...G-d is moving the pieces on the divine chess board to a stalemate position. This is happening for a reason. He has a plan for humankind. He will not be denied by the myopic machinations of some men.
This is just posturing by Iran, they don't want a war with Israel which would mean the U.S. too. This would be dangerous in that it would cause political instability and might cause a revolution or at least conflict within Iran. They are aware that the U.S. would capitalize on that. The Turks will reject any offer not wanting to cause a ME war. Both countries don't stand a chance in a military conflict. By this I don't mean that we could conquer their countries, but in conflicts they stand no chance. If anything look for false flag OPs.
Egypt would also never allow Iranian military ships through the Suez, in this situation.
This is purely rhetoric.
In response to the last paragraph: Traders can only focus on one thing at a time. Right now it's fleeing the Eurland until it finishes its extinction event. Only then, barring a real military engagement involving Israel in the meantime, will the Middle East come back into the spotlight. However, even geopolitical tensions over there will have a hard time outweighing the crushing effects of China's commodity buying spree coming to a halt.
Gazing into and processing the kaleidoscope of world geo-politics is an acquired taste. Some don’t want to look. Some get dizzy. Few understand what is unfolding before their very eyes.
- queue drum roll please..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8aGlOj2VFo
Germany. Where's your ships. You get out there.
I can only assume they haven't had a chance to build them yet. So far they've supplied the subs that Israel is threatening Iran with, the torpedo implicated in the Korean sinking and the electronics for reactors to Iran via Dubai. Even Tuetonic industry has it's limits.
Match meet fuse.
don't forget "tar babies in the gulf." REAL tar babies. Oh, yeah and "Thad Allen is in charge." He's the head of...is it the Coast Guard? I highly doubt any of you have ever heard of the term "removal" as it pertains to holding office at the Federal level. Might want to "bone up" on that one.
Israel will attack Iran within 3 months-mark my words-oil at $150 by end of August-maximum by the end of the year
Hope you don't plan on doing anything this summer. $150 a barrel would see the supply chain grind to a halt.
You must be joking. $20 oil will be seen first.
Plenty of free oil in the Gulf.
I doubt that. BP would probably send out helicopter commandos to enforce their blockade of the oil slick. Your ship would be boarded, members of your crew would be shot with paintballs and then real bullets, killing several, and your boat would be towed back to BP's command and control center where you'll be arrested, beaten, interrogated for several days, beaten again, then deported back to your home.
Obama would then issue a statement saying the incident was "tragic" but that "BP has a right to defend their profits", and Marla would write an article here enabling BP's side of the story while make light of your situation.
I am Chumbawamba.
+10,000.
Also, something in the wind about that Vortoil Separation Systems' patent (separating oil from water), which was acquired back in the '90s by Baker Hughes (which was promptly acquired by Halliburton).
Note how BP and Halliburton work very closely together (both back in Iraq, and in the Gulf of Mexico).
Sounds to me like you don't believe what BP is showing and telling us.
Long live the queen. The spin queen.
yo,chumba:
add to that the cease and desist orders from cartel friendly federal courts halting the onshore clean-ups that illegally and unlawfully confiscate/compromise the physical integrity and marketability of BP's unfortunately spilled assets.
dawg, i'm telling ya, it can't happen here.......we stole/spilled that shit fair and square......
i'm hangemhigh and you are chumawamba...................
Iranian F-14s might have a surprise for USN F-18s
www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TQM1MSByWg
In BVR engagements the Tomcats still have a edge - in the 1991 Gulf war all Iraqi aircraft painted by the AGW-9 radar turned tail and ran(Combat experience) while occasionally engaging F -15s
They may need to deploy F-22s
Not too sure about this footage - it may have been old footage but I see no reason why a friendly F14 would have to be going full afterburner high speed over a friendly desert
www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wBJumPQt7M
Pfftttttt.... the Iranian airforce couldn't get near a Superhornet with the Hawk... hell, most of their f-14's don't even fly anymore.
Israel or the US would shred their 'air power'..
You are talking about planes that haven't had a fresh spare part supplied for them since, oh, 1979. It is fair to assume they are museum pieces over there, and that any that do fly are already tracked the instant they break 30mph on the tarmac. It is a bitch having AWACS type aircraft monitoring your turd world airforce.
That's because of the Tomcat's yet-to-be-replicated long range AAM, the AIM-54 Phoenix. Not only does it have a longer range than any other AAM out there, it is an active seeker, meaning you can launch it and go home. The AIM-120 replaced it in the US Navy, which IMHO was an error, because the AIM-54 had an op range of over 150 km (some say over 180km on a clear day), whereas the AIM-120 tops out at about 50km.
Basically, by the time you figured out an F-14 had caught your scent, there was an AIM-54 already inbound - and at the time, they were pretty immune to countermeasures, mostly because, being fire-and-forget, they didn't depend on the launching fighter to get them to their target - they had their own built-in guidance system.
The reason the AIM-54 was replaced was because a) the Tomcat was retired and b) fleet defense relies more on surface launchers i.e. Aegis cruisers, which have large complements of longer-range, more effective SAMs. That said, any country that can get their hands on the retired Tomcats and AIM-54s, and upgrade their avionics should do so at once, because the only thing better would be to invent Star Trek shields and deploy them on a national scale.
Another interesting video make of it what you will but there is some evidence of the Iranian military adopting generic computer technology that does not rely on radar guidance for its anti aircraft weapons.
This technology previously used by the North Vietnamese in a primitive fashion when they used a model of lets say a f-105 and when both plane and model are concentric they gain a range spectrum on their target.
Now with modern computer technology advanced electro optical computer systems can rapidly calculate the range and elevation of the target without signaling its presence via a radar ping.
While this is not as accurate as radar guidance primitive antiaircraft systems could contest air superiority for days and may deny advanced air forces air supremacy if deployed in large numbers especially during clear weather conditions.
Asymmetric warfare can be a bitch and the Iranian armed forces may have changed their combat doctrine dramatically after the 1991 Gulf War.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=blw3-ex5fY4
www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOuVr-zS8Rk
Excellent points, and don't neglect to recall that it was the North Vietnamese who were the only ones to ever successfully down an SR-71 back in 1972 --- or is that still classified??????
Shouldn't have utilized them to observe their drug running operations over at the Pentagon, methinks!!
Don't we have 4 aircraft carriers over in that area right now?
It is never about the hardware and always about the training and bottom line US Navy pilots would absolutely devastate any of the middle east airforces and most of the far east airforces. Our guys train harder and have more actual combat experience.
All that fancy hardware the Iranians have has to be upkept... alot.
Let's hope they perform better than the USAF has in Afghanistan --- far too many innocents in wedding parties have been red misted by them.
(Just being sarcastic -- I don't want the imperialistic forces of the USA going around murdering anyone...anymore --- they insured enough killing in Afghanistan (dating back to 1978) and Iraq --- where were all those WMDs, and what if someone decides the USA shouldn't have them?)
The USAF has performed remarkably well in Afghanistan as in other theaters...the enemy deliberately hides behind women and children because thats just the way the bastards are built.
All those WMD's are in Syria.
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/satellite-photos-support-testimony-that-iraqi-wmd-went-to-syria/
Hey, you're a pretty good Onion parody.
Carry on.
I am Chumbawamba.
The US Armed Forces are Iraq's WMDs.
He is doing a fly by. When I served in the Marines, our/Navy jets would do them all the time.
Regarding Iran, they will attack our Navy with boats/Harpoon missles and Cruise missles, not aircraft. No Iranian aircraft will get within launching range. The F-15i and the F-22 will fly top cover and the Iranians will never see them. Plus there will be no base to return to, as the B-2 or our cruise missles will have seeded the runways with mines and bombs.
I don't doubt that the US armed forces will have air superiority within 24 to 48 hours but air supremacy I am not to sure about.
If Iranians adopt a asymmetric doctrine unlike the Iraqi forces of 91 it could be many weeks before air supremacy is achieved with obvious political and economic repercussions as the blockage of the straits of Hormuz for any length of time will have devastating consequences.
If the US or Israel ever attack Iran, my guess is they better be ready for the Shia to take over Iraq.
I didn't read the article but is Iran running a escort service for the Turks?
I don't speak Russian. Someone please translate "zaebal uzhe skotina."
"zaebal" - from "ebat' " - to fuck. in the given context means "you’re annoying the shit out of me." this would definitely get "bleeped" on TV
"uzhe" - already
"skotina" - literally means lagre domesticated/farm animal(s) such as cow. Also a very common insult used even by pre-schoolers and not even "bleeped"on TV. in an insult form means something like, well, a cow or a beast.
Forget that fake - here's the original, undoctored comms from the flotilla crew:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0Pj2r94CDM
"May I dance on your groin?" I think. Depends on dialect.
I find the last 10 seconds most interesting:
" Quit helping Arabs going against the U.S. Don't forget 9/11 guys"
Sounds like an Israeli in southern accent.
God damn, you're right.
Non-subliminal message?
I am Chumbawamba.
Unsurprisingly:
IDF admits doctoring audio of raid on Gaza flotillahttp://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0606/idf-admits-doctoring-audio-gaza-flotilla/
I am Chumbawamba.
Considering the israeli/mossad fingerprints all over 9/11, we should all keep the evil entity in mind when discussing 9/11
Dr. Alan Sabrosky, former director of studies at the US Army War College: Mossad, Jewish neo-cons, and Israelis orchestrated 9/11 attack
http://911falseflagarchive.blogspot.com/2010/03/dr-alan-sabrosky-former-...
Yep and that just puts the ass lube in what Fabled Enemies claims. It's a threat. You help arab forces going against the US and ISRAEL will do another 9/11.
It's round robin soul fucking. US banks and german banks and french banks all yanked money from their local economy and built up germany to hurt the jews. Now the jews are the ones being supported in hurting the arabs. Then next show will be arabs being supported in hurting asians or some shit. Till it becomes clear that it is possible for any nation to starve and murder any other nation down to weakness given enough support by the warmongers. You supply the vengeance, they'll misdirect it supply the weapons.
Details coming out suggest that the commando response to the flotilla was less bungled and more likely planned (evidence suggests the plan was signed off earlier by Netanyahu and senior Israeli ministers a week before to provide a strong, even violent, response). As such, the deepening crisis is probably not the fault of the suffering Palestinians on Gaza or of the unarmed protesters to this tragic occupation. In the midst of U.S. media support for Israel, some strong voices are raised against it. Here’re the opening graphs from Justin Raimondo:
THIS SAYS IT ALL by Justin Raimondo on June 3, 2010 | Antiwar.com
What is US foreign policy in the Middle East all about – and for whose benefit is it being conducted? In two short paragraphs, this news story says it all:
"The U.S. confirmed that an American citizen, identified as 19-year-old Furkan Dogan, was killed by multiple gunshots during the Israeli raid on a flotilla carrying activists attempting to run a blockade of the Gaza Strip.
"State Department spokesman Philip J. Crowley said the U.S. has made no decision on a response to Dogan’s death."
Apparently official Washington is torn between issuing a mild protest, and thanking them.
"Protecting the welfare of American citizens is a fundamental responsibility of our government," Hillary Clinton assured the media, "and one that we take very seriously" – but not seriously enough to issue an official protest. "We are in constant contact with the Israeli government attempting to obtain more information about our citizens." Do they want to know how many holes the IDF put in Furkan Dogan’s head before they make a decision on a response?
In reality, the US already made a response in the form of Vice President Joe "Loose Cannon" Biden, who, when asked about the attack on the flotilla, said: "So what’s the big deal here?" …
Read more… http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2010/06/03/this-says-it-all/print/
Lets get one thing straight. Furkan was merely BORN here. He moved to Turkey when he was 2 years old. He's American by birth only and was raised in Turkey under influences of an Islamic nation. His parents claim martyrdom for him and that can only be claimed when under the pretense of Jihad.
Yeah, anyone who does or says anything against Israel should be stripped of their citizenship!
That does seem to be the case.
The Israeli/Palestinian conflict is a world crisis now because some people consider themselves to be biologically superior to others. Surely you did not mean that, in your comment, Furkan’s association with people of a country other than America qualify him for four bullets to the head and, as Biden would say, No big deal.
Rachel Corrie was an American Citizen that Israel killed. Is she American by birth only as well?
http://www.rachelcorrie.org/
Oh, and then there was this little thing we refer to as the USS Liberty. I'm pretty sure all those soldiers were Americans:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident
And it doesn't matter if he left here when he was 2 years old. According to the Constitution, the highest law of our land, and to which the men of the USS Liberty pledged to uphold and defend, he is an American citizen, and no amount of lunatic raving will change that fact.
And whether he was American or not, he died at the hands of thugs by the order of thugs. What do you say to that?
I am Chumbawamba.
I say I win, and I called it. The first words out of your stanky, pie-hole, included "USS Liberty". I don't know if it's possible to drill this into your skull or not but I've stated more than once that Israel needs to pay up for the Liberty, which happened while we were at a Neutral position with them.
Let me address the other stink you wafted in our direction. When you live in another country for an extended period of time from an early age; an age where all American influences are negated to the point of non-existence, then your citizenship is the only thing you have. You really aren't an "American". You didn't grow up in our culture with which to grow and bond with. Nope! He grew up in an Islamic country and held Turkish citizenship as well. He's more Turkish than American any day of the week.
I'm going to say some other, not so popular, things because quite frankly people pussy out and won't say them. If you go to another country and seek to support the side that also invites a terrorist entity to run their gov't.. don't expect a warm welcome from the other side. When you do things like that without going about through an org like the Red-Cross, you are no longer a simple civilian with a purpose. You are a fucking target no matter what country you hail from. Fucking stupid is Fucking stupid no matter what angle you look at it. You need to look no further than the masses of people returning to the middle east under this and other false pretenses and end up planning to blow up Times Square.
I truly believe one is free to do whatever one wishes to do. But you have to accept the consequences of your own actions, not pawn the responsibility off on some other entity.
To further address the "Thug" comment; His parents said he died a martyr and one can only be considered a Martyr in Islam if they do so dying for Allah, which means Jihad was in play.. so who's the thug? I'm thinking you are.
First of all, you really have no idea what you're talking about with regards to any of your comments referencing Islam. I'll attempt to deal with your logic but you'll have to excuse me for not responding to your bigoted and/or ignorant views.
Under the law of our land, those born on this soil are American citizens. The law of our land also calls for American citizens to be protected in their travels in foreign lands, and when one of our citizens is murdered by a foreign government then it is our duty to take action. Now, granted, he isn't truly "American" in the sense that I am, but he is still, by law, an American citizen. Now, do you want to continue to selectively interpret the laws when it suits your bigoted aims, or do we enforce it equally, as if this was an American citizen that was killed by an Arab or Muslim country?
Of course, this is yet another red herring. The real issue is why we even have a relationship with Israel where our government's collective reaction to an attack on an aid convoy to a besieged people with many American citizens on board (there were dozens, if not hundreds), is to heap praise on the offender for showing restraint or whatever other stupid euphemisms they use to orgasmically express their love and adoration for what is outside the US one of the most hated regimes in the world, if not the most (demonstrated in poll after poll for the past few years in various countries around the globe).
The rest of your tripe is ignorant drivel that is not worth responding to, lest this descend into a pointless ragefest, which I'm not interested in.
Put up or shut up. That's all.
I am Chumbawamba.
If you go to another country and seek to support the side that also invites a terrorist entity to run their gov't.. don't expect a warm welcome from the other side.
You need to watch what you wish for. The majority of world opinion holds that israel is a/the terrorist state. Are you calling for participants in these programs to get an IOF type greeting on their return?
http://toisraelnow.org/
http://www.amazingisrael.com/English/
You label someone subhuman and it's game on. Endless pompous hypocrisy flows from you and you are too stupid to see it.
you are chumbawamba and i'm knot....................
Ugrev,
Your statement only demonstrates that Furkan is more American than Obama.
Furkan's father told today to the reporters that he get on the ship because he TRUSTED on his American Passport.
He said my son was born in USA and ony American passport.
http://www.milliyet.com.tr/furkan-dogan-in-babasi-oglum-amerikan-vatanda...
here is a google translation from original Turkish language:
Erciyes University Faculty of Economics and Administrative Sciences faculty, Asst. Assoc. Dr.Ahmed Dogan, the United States'citizens of this country in the world and from his son carry only U.S. passports, he said.
The funeral of the son of Turkey'to come to the U.S. ambassador after a phone call telling him that, Dogan said.
"The U.S. Ambassador and Consul separately called me, condolences reported." A request If you notice the 'they said. Then for what to do, concretely what steps they would tell us to, developments to be informed we wanted. Until now turn happened.
My son is only U.S. citizens. Not dual citizenship. He was born there. Only the U.S. was carrying a passport. All the things that can be done in this country is supposed to do. 're waiting for the U.S. administration to open the investigation. In any event related to U.S. citizens outside the country to open an investigation when there is availability, with our children about why we did not open an investigation? Why not be followed? To ask for the account of the bureaucratic process to do all, to investigate the murder of our child unfairly, we want to decrease our pain. We are waiting for results. U.S. Israelfrom expect to account. "
"TRUST U.S. PASSPORT was to"
That his son's U.S. passport and move to the trust set out to tell when a U.S. citizen, Dogan, said.
"While there:" I am American, I do not do anything 'he went to the trust. Explicitly relied on United States citizenship. 'I'll go with this passport will help me too' he thought. Entirely humanitarian assistance for the purpose of going to encounter such a thing did not expect it. My son is a U.S. citizen confidence and set off. U.S. stance has disappointed us."
His son's ship was the first attack, fallen know who told Ahmet Dogan "target considering or have not been. Collar cards did not. Only the passports had. My son first attack hit Among those. Again weapons screening five bullets kick how wild they are showing. My son, the first attack, the deck was on, and the first attack killed fallen, "he said.
U.S. Embassy stating that they never requested an investigation be opened, Dogan said.
"(The following is're looking at), they said. I examine what, why still investigation that we do not understand. The investigation is initiated, then the investigation is done. First, to review the investigative power logic that we do not understand. The 2nd class citizens, 3rd class citizen position of Are ? worry you. My son is a very trusted. U.S. behind so. But many follow-up did not, not interested. Currently the U.S. attitude of waiting. A few days after the review and we will return any other information was given. No information has not arrived. A while we wait. What legal action if We will attempt in that way. "
Ahmed Dogan, the Government and other authorities themselves enough interest, the necessary support they saw by reporting, "Repent, our ke?kemiz yet. Child of our beautiful road were killed. We killed his father provides. Hayirli developments be instrumental. U.S. this investigation, although the investigation although my son and other life The losers, for the future will be no cause, "he said.
Furkan's father told today to the reporters that he get on the ship because he TRUSTED on his American Passport.
Terrible to lose a son because of magickal thinking: a mere piece of paper simply will not stop a bullet!
Read more at antiwar.com? Before I click through can you tell me: do they have a bias or is it unobjective analysis?
I’m very familiar with Antiwar.com; it is produced by responsible journalists using journalistic ethics for quotations, evidence and reporting. Justin Raimondo is its chief columnist and his articles are clearly labeled as opinion and after reading his material for years, I can say that he does have a very strong bias, against war.
Thank you, "JR." I'm sure your lack of bias will be as a beacon to the readers of "ZH."
As far as I'm concerned, AntiWar.Com is beyond reproach. I've been reading it for about 10 years now. Their bias is that they are anti-war, so their articles will reflect that, but through articulate expression of the facts and not the emotional pandering you read in the typical left-wing or right-wing press or the veiled and even naked ad hominen at other well-trafficked alternative news sites. Their analysis is in depth and comprehensive, and they offer a wide spectrum of "conservative right" opinions (but you'll never heard from neo-conservatives or liberventionsts there as those types are their mortal enemy), and occasional the liberal view, but never the left. The best description would be "libertarian".
I am Chumbawamba.
I agree with Chumba about antiwar.com They are intellectually consistent and do not suffer from the left-wing bias one would think.
As Iraq and Afghanistan have shown, we ought not start "elective wars".
We should be thinking: "Don't tread on me."
You must consider all the sides of a cube before making a judgment on the next move. Knowing how to "weight" certain perspectives is a result of years of intense study. When accessing all media whether it be a website, newspaper, tv program, book or radio show, it is vital to know the angle and orientation of the founder and contributors.
It also requires a thought process that is able to assemble that collected information into a logical order and not massaged to fit into preconceived notions.
I am Chumbawamba.
Gee whiz, everyone's favorite draft-dodging stooge and AIPAC today, Biden, once again opens his big, thesis-copying mouth.
And gives the OK, along with the prez, for committing terrorist attacks in international waters, which are also acts of war by a sovereign nation (Israel).
And the prez, rewrites history by claiming the cause was the rockets incoming to Israel -- conveniently forgetting that the election in Gaza, where the Bush Administration had given Fatah $1 billion US to win (that's US taxpayer coin, dudes and dudettes!!!), lost because of their endemic corruption (and how much of that $1 billion found its way into Fatah's Swiss bank accounts with their other aid, one wonders???).
Then the Bush Administration, and the Israeli government, instigated a war between Hamas and Fatah, after Hamas won that democratic election.
History, something the prez and vice-prez need to go back to school to learn....
everyone's favorite draft-dodging stooge and AIPAC
Not everybody's. My favorite is, and probably forever will be, Dick Cheney.
Israel needs to go ahead and bomb Iran's nuke sites.
Iran needs to go ahead and bomb Israel's nuke sites.
(I copied and pasted from your post and did a little editing, so thanks for the shortcut.)
I am Chumbawamba.
you are chumbawamba and i'm knot.............................
Nothing here justifies the headline "Iran Offers To Escort Gaza Ships." There is a lot of wiggle room between these two statements. No commitment has been made. All the announcement really says is that if their Leader orders the naval wing to escort ships, then they will do so. Well of course, but that's not news, just more confrontational bluster.
Did you read the title of the JPost article?
Yes, and you quoted them correctly. The first paragraph of the JPost attributes an unambiguous offer of assistance to Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, but the only direct quote is from a "Revolutionary Guard spokesman" who made the statements I referrred to. They also reference a Reuters interview which I must admit I have not seen.
Still my impression is of more inflammatory rhetoric from Iran and a willingness by JPost editors to keep the ball in play.
Propaganda organs like Jpost will do anything possible to make this about Iran, and not about Apartheid Israel murdering babies and stealing wheelchairs.
Perhaps the Iranians weren't able to
convince the Turks to try to crash
NATO. This means the Iranians will
have to do the escort. The Turks
will split the difference probably
have offered to provide port support
for the Iranian ships.
Can't wait for the November election
to be over so all this BS settles
back down.
Iran is doing nothing. This is a bullshit article. Just one guy shoting off his mouth who does not have the power to implement what he stated. These are the kind of articles that piss me off. Just fear mongering....
Is The US Preparing For "The Total Destruction Of Iran?" The quick answer?! "YES! SIR!”
In Iraq we lacked a paper trail for WMD's that would not have our (our being the U.S.A.'s) finger prints all over the documents...
The Russian's as the second largest producer of oil would be happy to see the Middle East get irradiated, broadly speaking... and thusly... would happily provide the paper trail for the equipment that they the Russian's did provide and how it was easily modified by Iran (who is now out of warranty because of the modifications). http://www.eia.doe.gov/cabs/Russia/Background.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4301889.stm
Russia-Iran nuclear deal signed ***(Sunday, 27 February, 2005, 12:56 GMT)***
Russia and Iran have signed an agreement for Moscow to supply fuel to Iran's new nuclear reactor in Bushehr.
Under the deal Iran has to return spent nuclear fuel rods from the reactor, which was designed and built by Russia.
So, since we learned our lesson last time… and we will need to have good proof… due to the cycle of time between the invasions… we don’t have time to wait for a generation to forget and die off… thusly, paper trail or “Proof” not an issue…
Yes, Iran is going to have a change of leadership… will it be us (us being the U.S.A. proper) or will it be Israel? Israel can bomb the leadership and Mullah’s in short order… cruise missiles are accurate to 10 feet.. (more like 30 feet, but close enough) and in this massive one blow, decapitate the snakes many heads along with the most staunch supporters of what is the Iranian’s craziness… We should have stepped in during the election… but one crazy for another and all that… plus Israel is tired of being beaten on… they need a win, to keep up moral at home.
Anyone who says this is not happening… is lying to themselves. The best part is the eagle and the bear in the holy valley, ala George Bush the evangelical… he really might have been the anti Christ. Because there is no walking this back.
Disagreed. Russia wants Iran as a buffer, and you're forgetting about China and it's growing hunger for oil. They would not like it if Iran goes up in flames with all the money they've sunk into the place.
Venezuela, Russia agree plans for nuclear power plant project - Chavez
http://en.rian.ru/world/20100403/158417699.html
Venezuela is one of the world’s largest exporters of crude oil and the largest in the Western Hemisphere. In 2008, the country was the eighth-largest net oil exporter in the world.
http://www.eia.doe.gov/cabs/Venezuela/Background.html
· Venezuela's Oil-Based EconomyAuthors:
Cesar J. Alvarez
Stephanie Hanson
· Updated: February 9, 2009
o Introduction
o Venezuela's Economy under Chavez
o PDVSA
o Spending the Oil Money
o PDVSA's Production Levels and Fiscal Health
o Regional Ventures
o U.S.-Venezuela Oil Ties
http://www.cfr.org/publication/12089/#p4
Iran nuclear plant to start by August: Russian official
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100520/wl_mideast_afp/irannuclearpoliticsunrussia_20100520165722
According to Oil and Gas Journal, as of January 2010, Iran has an estimated 137.6 billion barrels of proven oil reserves, or roughly 10 percent of the world's total reserves.
http://www.eia.doe.gov/cabs/Iran/Oil.html
Among the parties with a keen interest in the nuclear standoff between Iran and the UN Security Council are foreign investors. Iran is an energy bonanza (NYT) in their eyes: Its underdeveloped oil and gas fields, the world’s second largest, need outside expertise, capital, and technology.
http://www.cfr.org/publication/12661/irans_dire_oil_straits.html
+ 2 JW for your interesting remarks and links.
IDF needs to learn moders warfare from North Korean submariners. enough pussying around with handguns. 500 kilo torpedo shold do just fine
b_thunder aka likudnikophile - Your big brain needs to locate and learn to operate the english spell checker function. Good luck.
First post... I'm off the porch and into the house and let my training begin. I want to thank Tyler and staff, for the best website on the net IMHO. Also, all the posters that have given me the strength to man up and see what's really going on!
Last summer, I decided to go all in Physical Au/Ag after I stocked up on all the other essentials one would need in a collapse/war. I must say, I've never slept better! I love being poor on paper!
It's my belief that charity starts at home and lord knows we need it here. There are going to be millions here suffering. Iran and Israel will do what they have to do and that is not my business or concern. "Only after disaster can we be resurrected".
Ubermut. Chaos. Seife.
Welcome. Avoid any and all Kool-Aid and take two red pills in the morning.
John,
Thank you! Will do, oh is sweet tea OK to wash down my red pills? Kool-aid nor T.V. are allowed in my home!
I second John's welcome.
And way to go re stocking up on physical Au and Ag.
I think Chumbawamba will be happy to read more from you.
Another one fell for our ruse!!
Er, I mean...yes! It is a glorious day for the revolution!
I am Chumbawamba.