Iran, Russia and the Real World Obama Cannot Change
I have a frequent nightmare: In the year 2011, with the full support and complicity of their shadow ally, Russia, the Islamofascist regime in Tehran announces that they have developed a deliverable nuclear weapon(s). That any attempt by any nation to dismantle their program through military force or draconian economic sanctions will be viewed as an overt act of war. That they will view any such act of war as justification enough to deploy a nuclear weapon against Israel…regardless of what nation is behind the initial response.
They will cite classic anti-Semitic mantra, such as the myth that international Jewry controls the Western powers, etc. as their reasoning for labeling Israel the chief culprit by default. More to the point, when push comes to shove they know that President Obama harbors no love of the Jewish state (as his harsh treatment of Netanyahu shows) and will have no stomach for a war to protect it.
[Meanwhile the Russians let it be known through diplomatic back-channels that relations between Tehran and Moscow have recently thawed and any retaliatory military strike against Iran for its actions against Israel could be viewed as an attack on Russia.]
The West, assuming it is even motivated to respond at all, is now put in a precarious position for a now-nuclear Iran looms over the Strait of Hormuz like a Colussus. This narrow sea lane is by far the world’s most important oil chokepoint due to its daily flow of 16.5-17 million barrels, or roughly 40 percent of all seaborne oils (20 th percent of oil traded worldwide). At its narrowest point the channel is only 21 miles wide.
Now Obama will have a choice to make. Will he commit the US Navy to keep the strait open, call the Russian bluff and risk a world war? Or will he back down and seek a “diplomatic” solution. Regardless, even temporarily closing off the Persian Gulf would cause an economically devastating spike in the price of oil and a sympathy rally in all commodities.
This would be just fine for the commodity-rich Russia. With 79 billion barrels of proven reserves they hover above a vast reservoir of untapped crude oil. And let us not overlook natural gas. In fact, according to the EIA, Russia holds the world’s largest natural gas reserves, with 1,680 trillion cubic feet (Tcf), which is nearly twice the reserves in the next largest country which is, guess who, Iran. In 2006 Russia was not only the world’s largest natural gas producer (23.2 Tcf), but also the world’s largest exporter (6.6 Tcf). Russian government forecasts expect gas production to total 31.1 Tcf by 2030. Europe is highly dependent on Russian natural gas through the state-controlled Transneft pipelines they could close with the turn of a nozzle. The EU imports almost half of its natural gas and 30 percent of its oil from Russia. Eastern Europe consumes even higher percentages of Russian gas.
[As my dream moves along, I envision too that as a precursor to Iran’s announcement we see a sustained rally in oil futures before the eventual spike as Tehran will have given their new friends an ample heads-up allowing the barons of Moscow to go long futures as a hedge against what is coming and even profit from the appreciation should their cash business be temporarily dislocated from supply disruptions.]
The fact is the Russians have a vested interest in a nuclear Iran. It is good for business and certainly will greatly diminish the power and influence of the already hard-pressed USA. So even as Russian president Dmitry Medvedev offers lip-service to “limited” sanctions to an ever more bewildered Obama foreign policy team, the true powers in Russia—Putin and the band of hybrid statist/capitalist billionaire oligarchs—will never support effective economic measures that will hurt Iran enough to curb its nuclear ambitions. “The enemy of my enemy is my friend” is the old saying. And the Russians certainly do not look to as us partners…at best competitors, at worst impediments to their desires for expansion that date back into the dimmest past of the ancient tsars. Self-interest is the guiding principle among European nation-states. It always has been and always will be—“rock star” president notwithstanding.
[Meanwhile, as my nightmare unfolds, in another sea channel, the Chinese—who already have strong economic ties with Iran—coincidentally decide to launch a repeat of their bellicose 1996 naval exercises in the Formosa Strait almost within sight of the Taiwanese coast. What will the USA do? How will we treat this act of aggression half way across the world committed by the nation whose military might is formidable and even more prickly, holds much of our national debt and the value of our currency in a death grip?]
The America of my dream is thus weak and quite vulnerable. But this premonition need not come to pass. The first step towards thwarting this one potential future is for the Obama administration to do a re-“reset” in foreign relations and get a grip on who are our friends, who are our enemies, and start treating each accordingly. If Obama truly believes his own rhetoric that a nuclear Iran is “unacceptable” then he must see that we have with Israel a common and imperative goal to prevent Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons. If that means that he must give Israel tacit approval for a military strike with a quiet assurance that we will have their back regardless of what inevitable “condemnation” resolution come downs the UN pipeline then so be it. This is real world stuff here and the future of millions could be at stake. Hyperbole? Part of being a leader is having the capacity to imagine the unimaginable. 9/11 gave us a clue what a few hard-core Islamic zealots with box-cutters and no scruples can do. Just imagine this crowd with a nuke. Again, “unacceptable” means just that: we cannot accept it.
What Obama must accept is that our interests and those of much of the world are not aligned on this matter…either economically or politically. And thus must he find in himself the same “courage” that he conjured up to push through an unpopular healthcare bill at home because he, ahem, knew best, and this time do what is best for the world, whether that world knows it or not.
The fact is that the notion of a “global community” is a myth. Nations are what nations are. And a clue as to how they will conduct their affairs can usually be discerned by picking up a history book and thumbing through a page or two.
Iran is the geopolitical illustration of Newton’s first law of motion which offers that an object in motion will stay in motion on the same course until acted upon. It seems that in his desire to turn inward and create an economic utopia within our borders, Barack Obama is unwilling to accept that the world outside remains a very hazardous place. And there are many in that world who view the imminent decline of American power not as a symbol of a newfound global harmony, but rather an opportunity for mischief. If he stays on his relentless course of statism at home and post-American dogma abroad, Mr. Obama will end up irrevocably weakening this nation with unsustainable domestic activism and an utter misapprehension about the rough and tumble neighborhood in which his happy-faced diplomats are trying to navigate. He may very well get a new world order, that “change” of which he spoke so forcefully in his campaign. But I think the reality will not be so pleasant as his fantasy optimism would have him “hope.”
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on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 09:17
#451545
Excellent article.
Don't waste time trying to decide who our friends are.
Remember the Grizzly is alone and has no friends.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 10:59
#451645
What rubbish!!
I personally do not dispute Israel's right to exist, do not care about the Palestinian Question, or who is right or wrong. For me it is quite simple: Israel is a fact of life in the ME, has the right to exist enforced by US military might, and will not disappear tomorrow. Israel is a hegemonic power determined to expand its borders and eliminate potential threats such as Iran. Iran would gladly destroy Israel to avoid a pre-emptive strike, but will not do so knowing that all 75 million Iranians will be sent to Allah courtesy of the 400 Israeli Nukes. The Russians could eliminate Israel, at the price of losing over 75% of their population, and being destroyed forever as a global power. Whatever is left of Russia will likely be occupied by their neighbours, once the radiation levels drop, in the year 2 Billion or so.
In summary, nothing will change other than the constant threat of war will be used to expand military budgets and maintain tight control over the populace via the never ending terror alerts. My fantasy would be Iranians, Russians and Israeli's hugging each other as brothers. I can only dream.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 12:38
#451814
OT here, but I have a question out of my area of expertise. Does anyone here know how the predicted massive solar flares will effect nukes and weapons control systems? I know a lot of satellites and such will be rendered useless. It is bad enough how it will effect our electrical grid systems, etc. in the civilian arena.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 13:41
#451902
Ballistic missiles located underground or undersea, and warheads stored in faraday cages, would be unaffected in an EMP strike, which is a much worse case than solar flares. Many systems abord aircraft would be vulnerable, of course, to the point where they could not fly in many cases. A lot of the Israeli warheads presumably are deliverable only as gravity bombs or cruise missiles launched from aircraft?
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 14:49
#452004
in addition, if delivery is PGM through GPS, the constellation could have gone stupid or intermittent lock. Which will increase cep, probably not affect altitude or time to function. If PGM only through terrain following (e.g. T-LAM) then might get 'way off course without GPS. Then depends on safeguards or lack thereof whether the response to going stupid is to self destruct or to function at programmed altitude, distance, or location guesstimate.
(wow, the idea that when the "intelligent" discover that they have gone "stupid" and self-destruct as a result? I'm going to patent it! We'll find all kinds of uses for that.)
- Ned
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 23:14
#452574
"if" being the key word. No US nuke delivery systems depend on GPS for their accuracy. None. Any chance Israel's do? Second chance now: Any chance Israel's do considering that the U.S. can turn GPS services -off- any time they like?
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 20:51
#452379
Nobody outside Israel knows & Mossad would kill anyone who they even strongly suspected of wanting to spill the beans (even to USA).
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 12:58
#451849
RS:
+ 100
You are probably quite correct. It is not beyond the realm of possibilitythat Putin, Nentanyahu and Ahmadinejad have it all worked out.
Keep their populations (and the Obumbling amateur in the White House) focused elsewhere while, through ever-escalating but never-defined "threats" all three keep their populations cowed and docile while they line their pockets.
And, as part of the mix, they will also call on their "Dear Friend and Brother" Hugo Chavez - rapidly creating a "North Korea on the Caribbean" - to step things up with, say, an invasion of Colombia and Panama. He'll be only too happy to oblige.
And broad hints will be dropped to the Chinese (wink-wink) that perhaps now is the time for the Anschluss with Taiwan.
And there won't be anything we can do about any of it.
KrvtKpt, laughing swordfish
DKM Trading Division
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 16:13
#452121
Economies are so intertwined now, no real big deal here. Taiwan has north of $US 90BB investment in East China, (two year old recollection). Shanghai-Taipei direct shuttle is almost like Chicago-DC shuttle. There is family, there is business, then there is politics.
Don't mix. But do look up Thomas P.M. Barnett. He's a happy talk long time horizon, Obama supporter. Sometimes, he's smart (his Ph.D is NOT in econ).
http://www.thomaspmbarnett.com/
- Ned
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 15:53
#452091
I disagree. It is a geopotitical fact that Israel is a tiny sliver of land. Russia takes up half a continent as does, more or less, Iran. That means Isreal has ZERO margin for error. One nuke could take out Isreal. One (1).
So war is inevitable. War is the norm in Middle East. Since Iran has hardened their facilities with Russian assistance to render a conventional strike pretty much useless... Israel with use low-megaton missiles launched from subs already in place. That will end Iran's program for 50 years. It will happen within 6-12 months... with Saudi Arabia's blessing.
Nobody will fuck with Israel after that day. Russia is just a dysfunctional, AIDS-riddled Paper Tiger blackmailing EU for now. The Germans, no doubt, have has enough and will start a nuclear arms build-up any day.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 16:33
#452161
Satan, the SS 18 the Russians made Minutemen obsolete with, will throw 10 1 megaton warheads. Now that would remove Israel from the map.
Do you think the US would retaliate if that happens after Israel nukes Iran? I don't.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 18:50
#452278
Dear DeeDeeTwo
I respect your views but beg to differ....
1. Nuclear attacks can take many forms, including suicide planes loaded to bear with 'dirty' radioactive materials. Wiping out Iran will do little good to a small country poisoned by radiation.
2. There are other forms of attack, including biological. If there is any constant in history, it is revenge and retaliation in the name of justified, historical grievances. 50 years in this context means little to the Persians, whose recorded history is exceeded in length only by the Chinese.
3. Saudi Arabia is most certainly worried that Iran will retaliate if they are seen as supporting the zionists. Further, any overt support by the Saudi regime will be destabilizing and dangerous to the governing powers. Most of the population of Saudi Arabia would rejoice to see Israel destroyed.
4. I have no love for Russia but they are far from a paper tiger, and the EU does not want destabilization on their eastern frontier. They have enough nproblems without having to contend with millions of refugees and the possibility of russian nukes falling into the 'wrong' hands. Germany in particular needs natural resources and Russia needs technological goods.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 11:15
#451666
Perfect for the 4th of July.
For once the weather is forecast to be clear and sunny without the fog, so that we cannot see the fireworks which we can no longer afford.
So I shall pop some corn, steam some lobster and melt a huge bowl of butter in which to hand dunk the offending indulgences before blissful consumption as I peruse the ensuing diatribes.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 17:13
#452203
You guys hash this out. I'm clicking on the "Find your Russian Beauty" ad at the top of the page. Gives ZH a little revenue while I waste a little time taking a peek at the pulchritude Russia has to offer.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 18:51
#452281
Best suggestion I've read to date... I spent some time working in eastern europe...
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 19:56
#452331
ya naughty litle raccoon! Happy Re-public day!
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 11:25
#451667
QED.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 14:49
#452005
France has nuclear weapons. Why not Iran?
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 21:50
#452442
Thank god, a commentator with some perpective.
Iran having nukes will STABILISE the middle east. it will stop israel acting like a total jerk.
I'm fascinated by this american presumption that it is entitled to rule the world. why cant Iran control the straits of hormuz? after all, it is its territory? You think its unfair for Iran to control it? I don't see america handing the panama canal back to an independant panama. The double standards require moronic levels of logical inconsistency here.
Then there's the presumption that Iran's leaders are suicdally fanatic. Assholes with boxcutters are significantly different creatures to persian polititians - who incidentally have not invaded another country for something like 200 years (Iraq-Iran war of the 80's was instigated by Saddam). Why would the ruling class of a proud, independant and increasingly prosperous nation be so suicidal as to directly attack Israel with one puny nuke in the full knowledge that the response would be to render formerly mountainous Iran a radioactive plataue. It requires considerable cultral ignorance to presume them to be so insane with allah's will that they would throw away a game that they are actually winning (in diplomatic terms) through tact and patience.
on Mon, 07/05/2010 - 00:52
#452687
This article is a neocon plant.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 09:40
#451553
"the myth that international Jewry controls the Western powers"
stopped reading after that little tidbit.
http://www.iamthewitness.com/
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 09:59
#451567
yep...he sure as fuck jumped the shark early on into this little tidbit of paranoid bullshit. but should we really be surprised? it is, after all, the 4th of July...The Mardi Gras of Patriotic crazies.
"When stupidity is considered patriotism, it is unsafe to be intelligent." ~ Isaac Asimov ~
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 11:57
#451750
Classic retort... I hereby flag you... +1 Unjunked.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 10:10
#451579
great website ... thanks
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 10:31
#451602
All those years of Hebrew school before my Bar Mitzvah and I never once had a class in world domination or satanic worship. Must have been a second rate school, I guess.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 11:13
#451662
That class is only open to the "important" Jews. The little folks such as yourself need not be concerned, and only need to concern yourselves with a fanatic support of Israel and all her policies, using the label of anti-Semite to it's fullest to shut down any and all opposition.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 13:04
#451862
Most Jews in the US have little affinity toward Israel much less Zionism.
The fundamentalist Christians are the main drivers of this nonesense through their belief in the Rapture, the second coming of Christ, and the writings in the Book of Revelation in the Bible.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 14:13
#451956
That's certainly been my experience as well.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 14:31
#451976
Pure,
While your correct on the US Jews (mostly left wingers, and vote Democratic), from the rest of your post, I am curious as to what your interpretation of what a Fundamentalist, an Evangelical, or a Christian is?.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 14:58
#452022
+10,000
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 14:59
#452023
+10,000
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 20:01
#452337
Yeah Won't believe in any God until I get my new weekly edition of Apple iPhone 48000!
Now go read more bullexcreta below
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 11:17
#451669
was the talmud part of the curriculum?
http://www.talmudunmasked.com/chapter8.htm
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 14:16
#451962
IK<
With all the Anti Semites on this site( a lot ), you get a +1000,for hangin' in.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 10:44
#451622
Wow, skeeter, thanks for taking a few minutes off from your cross-burning to post this link...
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 11:26
#451687
Maybe it's just a coincidence, huh?
Greenspan, Summers, Geithner, Bernanke, Blankfein, Madoff, Scheinberg, greenberg, Orszag, Kagan, Cohen, Wolfowitz, Kristol, Fuld, Friedman, Gensler, and on and on and on and on...
None are blind.....
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 16:50
#452178
True, consider all these non jews in power,
Hayward, Hank Paulson, Jamie Dimon, Ken Lewis, Kenneth Lay, Warren Buffet, Bernard Ebbers (worldcom), Andrew Cassano (AIG), Charles Prince, George Bush, Dick Cheney, Chief Justice John Roberts, Donald Rumsfeld, Commander General Petraeus, Colin Powell, Condoleeza Rice, Alan Mulally (Ford), John Mack (MS), John Thain, Stan O'Neal (ML), James Cayne (Bear Stearns), Obama, et. al.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 20:06
#452340
wait a minnute,
List 1 controls most of the money and law
List 1 has senior advisers in all fields
List 2 has elected officials and obeying military
QED
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 12:35
#451809
Typical Neo Nazi propaganda website. Would make Joseph Goebbels proud!
Anti Semetic crap. Spam you- IslamoFacist Website.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 12:50
#451840
And here I thought we were being ruled by a magic negro.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 13:05
#451865
Puff-Diddley-Daddy the Magic Negro to be exact.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 18:56
#452283
You mean the Mulatto Messiah..?
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 09:44
#451556
Brilliant!!!! +1000
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 10:13
#451582
Brilliant???? So how is this drivel brilliant. There are facts on the ground and then there are Zionists wet dreams. Maybe the drivel avove can be turned a screen play starring Chuck Norris. You know one of those Brilliant movies shot in Israel and produced by Golan Globus. Van Dam is looking for a gig too. I love fantasy films where Israel saves the USA from the evil Arabs. Reality is that a few dozen goat herders in south Lebanon destroyed an Israeli armor column. The Israeli pussies ran all the way back to the border.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 10:36
#451612
"Reality is that a few dozen goat herders in south Lebanon destroyed an Israeli armor column."
...and now the Lebanese economy is booming because they are fully employed rebuilding all the infrastructure that Israeli aircraft bombed.
Perhaps that is the answer to the US unemployment problem? Get Canada to bomb hell out of all our infrastructure? You know...the broken window fallacy? Since we do no long term planning and have no budget and the census worker gig is winding down, why not go for some more short term employment via a good saturation bombing by Canadians?
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 12:04
#451764
Snidley, Re Saturation Bombing by Canadians
I just heard that the Canadian Gov't has ordered all Canadian Geese to fly over Washington....
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 14:22
#451966
You're talking about Bastiat's "broken missile launcher fallacy" ?
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 10:52
#451636
"Goat herders?" That's simply a bald-faced lie and demonstrates on its face that you have no interest in the truth.
The militants who attacked the Israeli armor column were hardened Hizbollah fighters who were aided and equipped by arms from Iran and specifically trained to ambush Israeli armor.
They have guns of their own, Anarchist, and their own PR people as well. You do a great "Baghdad Bob" impression, but they hardly need your help by acting as their apologist and writing them off as "goat herders."
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 11:07
#451655
Your post begs the question; what the hell was an Israeli armored column doing in S Lebanon...if not to steal a river that belongs to Lebanon?
...and, Hizbollah did kick the Israelis azzes in that little dust up. If the Israelis had no superiority in air power they probably would tone down their land grabs in the region, eh?
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 11:18
#451670
"Hardened Hizbollah Fighters"
That is laughable on it's face. Getting a few days training once in a while does not make a civilian a soldier. A Hizbollah "Fighter" in sourthern Lebanon is a Goat Herder and farmer when the Israelis aren't bombing or invading. There is no industry to employ them.
Hizbollah has no tanks, planes, artillery, aircraft, helicopters and no navy yet it crushed an armoured column of Merkava Tanks supported by fighter bombers, Cobra attack helicopters, pilotless drones, 155mm artillery and real time data from both Israeli and US satellites.
Hizbollah won the engagement due to their willingness to die by the hundreds attacking the armour column with outdated anti-tank missles. The Israelis being more used to killing unarmed women and children, ran like the pussies they are. This is in contrast to US troops who would have gotten out of their vehicles and taken on the enemy regardless of the initial losses. US troops would have used the overwhelming fire power that all modern armies can level against insurgents.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 14:19
#451964
True. Inflammatory, but true.
The Israeli armed forces have been resting upon their laurels, and S Lebanon was the proof.
But I Would argue that they were demonstrably "hardened" (willing to die, by your own words), if only due to circumstances.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 17:19
#452208
I know exactly zip about the entire issue, but your description reminds me of the Minutemen and the other fighters in the "colonies" who fought against the British.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 12:11
#451774
I think the moron means brilliant in the context of the usual drivel spewed forth from the Heritage Foundation and AIPAC.
Is this the first time there's been a post from the Heritage Foundation on 0hedge? And some clown's wet dream.
At least my wet dreams cover the following subjects:
http://googleads.g.doubleclick.net/aclk?sa=l&ai=BVgiiVb0wTI-PJM2SnQfl2uWoA-Wb1NQB9dKQ7hTAjbcBkL8FEAEYAiCE5okROABQ3YvdpwdgyY7GjfSk0BmgAYv59OUDsgERd3d3Lnplcm9oZWRnZS5jb226AQoxNjB4NjAwX2FzyAEC2gFPaHR0cDovL3d3dy56ZXJvaGVkZ2UuY29tL2FydGljbGUvaXJhbi1ydXNzaWEtYW5kLXJlYWwtd29ybGQtb2JhbWEtY2Fubm90LWNoYW5nZeABAsgCne6YFagDAcgDBegDa-gD8QboA_0D6AOsBfUDAAACRPUDACAAAA&num=2&sig=AGiWqtzPM9RYG_LmsmuFNjtP7Lo4ffbEkA&client=ca-pub-2131936754987056&adurl=http://www.RussianEuro.com/default.cfm%3Fovchn%3DGGL%26ovcpn%3DEnglish%2BUSA%2BContent%2BImage%2BAds%2BRussia%2BGeneral%26ovcrn%3Dimage%2Bad%26ovtac%3DPPC&nm=2
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 13:48
#451919
"I love fantasy films where Israel saves the USA from the evil Arabs."
Example? Or are these films in your head?
What we see out here in reality is a glut of Hollywood fictions where arabs are not involved, or when they are they are always revealed to be patsies of some eeeevil whities of some description. See 24 seasons 1-7, or the film adaptation of the The Sum of All Fears. Hollywood knows better than to film the "fantasy films" you are fantasizing the existence of. Most of their income from these comes from international sales. Their market is global, and even in the domestic market about half of the population are not named Skeeter or Daisy Duke, and do not live in flyover cuntry.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 16:43
#452175
Hezbollah has perhaps the best trained and most effective infantry on earth, The US special forces studying them think so.
A quote from a 16 year old Kornet operator who found his years of Playstation operation was perfect practice for the Kornets controls. "We hunted them like birds."
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 12:28
#451799
Brilliant!!!! +1000
Sqworl You are a clown :)
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 09:46
#451557
"Iran looms over the Strait of Hormuz like a Colussus. This narrow sea lane is by far the world’s most important oil chokepoint due to its daily flow of 16.5-17 million barrels, or roughly 40 percent of all seaborne oils (20 th percent of oil traded worldwide). At its narrowest point the channel is only 21 miles wide."
Guess what? Iran has been "nuclear" by virtue of this fact alone, for the 100 years oil's been exported through that Strait. Pissing and moaning about uranium in light of the fact that the US oil imports will decline 20% in 24 hours when some idiot decides to prevent something that, by virture of geography alone, already exists is an exercise in stupidity.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 09:48
#451559
Nice backdrop to a Tom Clancy wet dream. This is strictly MSM level stuff, why it is here on ZH only Leo knows. Actually I expect better from TC, as in he does better research.
Let's examine the first sentence.
Russia is much more than a shadow ally of Iran. Russia, as a member of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, has meet with Iran in meetings of that organization with the goal of bringing Iran into that partnership. Shadow ally? >>> Error number #1.
Islamofascist? Wow! The pot calls the kettle in order to deflect its own identity. USA = Fascist. That is a given. So if Iran is, isn't that the flavor of the year? And then to add Islamo- to the label. Well let's say the United States is Judeo-Christo-Fascist! Let's get those nasty JC-Fascists, before they take over the world! >>> Standard mob enraging slogan tactic #1.
And that is *the* first sentence.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 09:56
#451566
Can't wait to read your contribution? Please direct us to a site where we can wank pff to your "wet dream"....:-)
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 10:34
#451610
As you consider the article to be Brilliant +1000, please do not let me disuade you in any way. It is really an outstanding article of its type. I look forward to another contribution from the author with all my heart.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 11:24
#451680
Hey, I hate Apartheid Israel as much as the next guy, but from any metric, Iran is certainly worse. Islamofascist is a label which, while true (they are in fact fascists who happen to be Islamic), the only insult is to Islam, which, just like Christianity and Judaism, runs the gamut from libertarian to ultra socialist, and shold not be characterized by the political and economic conditions in one country which adheres to it.
If you want a fairly unbiased, quantitative explination of the issues that make Iran fascist, check here: http://heritage.org/index/Country/Iran That at least covers the economic perspective. Socially, they are on par with Israel, which is to say terrible if you aren't in the ruling majority.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 13:52
#451927
"Islam, which, just like Christianity and Judaism, runs the gamut from libertarian"
Any examples of "libertarian" Islam? Proponents thereof? Koranic passages in that vein? Do tell!
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 14:55
#452018
State Dept. wants to find the moderate Hezb'allah to deal with, lol. - Ned
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 23:16
#452581
They deserve the Neville Chamberlain award, for the whole decade, they really do.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 16:58
#452162
". . . from any metric, Iran is certainly worse"
Wow, you have all the metrics for this?! Gee, you must be an
econometrician or maybe even an mathanthropologigician! I'm really
into math myself. Please share at least some of these fascinating metrics with
the rest of us just for fun. Btw, since the list is infinitely long, just
give us the highlights. Oh and don't forget to include the proof that all the elements of this infinite set (the "badMetric"s) evaluate to badMetric(Iran) > badMetric(Israel) >= "bad" (how are you defining this? Something like "bad = Pi*Hitler**2" maybe?).
While the "Israel" part of the inequality appears trivial, the "Iran" part is a bit perplexing. I'm sure glad we have rock-sci's like you to figure this kinda stuff out!
Thanks a bunch, fellow (but superior) math person!
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 20:09
#452343
Tmosley, you are an idiot. Where is your outrage for apartheid Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iran, etc. etc?. All these countries suppress Christians and even different sects of muslims. You are just a racist swine.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 22:30
#452508
ahem, correction. Iran actually has some jewish members of its parliament.
sure it has racism like any country, but it remains a multicultural state, having maintained itself as a nation of many peoples and religeons for centuries.
doesnt fit the convenient narrative, that information, does it?
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 12:17
#451779
+100,000
What is this psycho obsession with people wanting to murder the Persians?
(Sorry, rhetorical question again. Obviously, to steal their oil and radium.)
One listens to the neocon pansies claiming to be Republicans harping against corporate shill, Elena Kagan, proclaiming her a "progressive" -- complete nonsense, so those faux crats can respond, "See, she must be good if THEY are against her."
The same faux crats that voted for the Supreme Court nominations of the most pro-corporate shills ever to sit on SCOTUS.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 15:01
#452026
Sarge,
after what Ginsberg did to the private sector retirement funds, you'd have to add "pro-government (or statist?) shill" to that list as well. See e.g.:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/20/indiana-pension-fund-chry_n_205...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_State_Police_Pension_Trust_v._Chrysler
- Ned
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 09:51
#451561
Your take on the situation seems a bit biased.
I have nothing against Israel, that said, what the situation boils down to is; does the world need Israel more than the world needs oil and gas?
Israel is a big military power in the mid east with lots of nukes...Isreal has already made it known that if they are attacked with nukes that they will launch an 'all horizon' retaliation with nukes. If that threat does not stop Iran anything the US does will not stop Iran...and...If Israel really wanted peace in their sphere, would they be grabbing and building on land that does not belong to them?
Anywho...there is no way that we can know for certain that Iran does not already have nuke capabilities. Iran has conducted trade with N Korea, China, Russia and Pakistan...all nuke powers. One really dumb way to find out is to attack Iran and see what happens next.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 10:00
#451569
"Israel is a big military power in the mid east with lots of nukes...Isreal has already made it known that if they are attacked with nukes that they will launch an 'all horizon' retaliation with nukes."
Israel is actively engaged in staging planes, personnel, and military material covertly in Turkey and other countries for a raid on Iran prior to that nation even getting nuclear capability, much less striking at Israel. This is not a strike in self defense, this is a pre-emptive action.
This is the stance of Israel, not what you have written.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 10:15
#451585
What I wrote is true but does not exclude your premis that Israel has other plans in the offing. In fact, I have no doubt that Israel has many plans, as do all large military organizations.
My main point was; who will be thrown under the bus when the choice is between Israel and oil/gas for the world economy. Do you have any doubt which will be chosen? Hell, I have no doubt which GS would choose.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 10:43
#451619
I just wished to note what Israel's stance was. It is certainly partially what you wrote, for the PR cameras and the "I am not to blame, I am an angel" facade, but under the reality of the wrestling with knives in the trenches, the Great Game is for the West to conquer the East. And at this point there is very little East left.
There are no cute kittens on settees basking in the sun. Only hidden Israeli fighter-bombers in Iranian neighbors (illegally if discovered, but with a wink otherwise).
Your comment added value, no doubt, the succeeding conversation has added body and breadth (maybe).
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 13:57
#451933
"My main point was; who will be thrown under the bus when the choice is between Israel and oil/gas for the world economy. "
The United States is consistently for free navigation of the seas, particularly for trade goods That's one constant of U.S. policy since there was a U.S. The U.S. took over this role from various European powers, most particularly from the former British Empire, and is unlikely to ever cede that principle . If Iran wants to continue to have a military(as opposed to a collection of smoking holes), it will not frack with the passage of oil through the straits of Hormuz. This is fully independent of everyone's fantasies about Israel.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 13:59
#451935
Duplicate
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 14:46
#451997
LeBalance,
" This is not a strike in self defense, this is a pre-emptive action."
Umm..yeah, WHY?.................(pre-emptive,say's it all).
Israeli aggression?, I must be deaf, and blind, I have not heard the leader/s of Israel vowing to wipe IRAN, or any other country off the face of the earth.
If YOUR ass was sitting in Israel 24/7/365, what might your take be then?.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 13:00
#451858
Yesterday I posted information about US contingency plans to invade Israel from Turkey. That post was removed by the editors. Unlike President Truman, President Obama does not need Jewish votes to implement his agenda. US strategic interests are best served by the free flow of oil from the Middle East. Israel's very existence has cost the US billions in treasure and countless lives. Iran with nukes is not a threat to US interests in the ME save for Israel. Israel knows this and has very effectively lobbied Congress over the years for its support. Israel will act in its national interest as will every other affected nation, including the US.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 14:01
#451937
Bollocks. A nuclear Iran is a menace to all the other oil and gas producing states bordering the straits, independently of Isreal's existence.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 19:14
#452301
What evidence is there to prove that Iran wants to take over neighbouring countries?
They understand that US will provide other gulf nations with military assistance at the drop of a hat.
Iran is NPT signatory, IAEA compliant I mean what more should they do to convince people to leave them alone
There is one thing being a skeptic and other being obsessed.
Stop the drama and let people move on with their lives.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 22:32
#452512
Stop the drama and let people move on with their lives.
Dude (chick?), I'm all for letting the iranian people move on with their lives.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 14:58
#452024
Carl M,
"Yesterday I posted information about US contingency plans to invade Israel from Turkey"
First, IF this were even a remote event,it would be suicide for the USA,and mark the beginning of End times Events......that I am not so sure, already are not in motion.
Are you sure you meant Israel,(maybe Iran?).
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 15:12
#452039
Carl, have another hot dog. Grab a cold one. Think this through. You are talking about Turkey, that would not support U.S. in Iraq, pulled the plug on 3d Division staging through for ground attack. Be more efficient to pack up II MEF on East Coast USofA and land them.
Or, here's a good one, we'll stand up "Bright Star" and fake Zahal out of their shorts. That'll do the trick.
But Turkey? nfw
- Ned
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 13:41
#451901
Non-scientists seem to believe that making a nuclear weapon is facile. It isn't and requires extensive testing, modeling and high level engineering to know that it will actually function (ie fission will actually take place in a chain reaction). For example, many top scientists concluded that less than 20% of the Russian nuclear weapons stockpile would actually function during the height of the cold war (Scientific American). Iran doesn't possess the scientific infrastructure and talent to do such testing, and neither does North Korea whose two tests were total low yield duds with not much more explosive power than conventional TNT. So, this whole article is pointless except as bad science fiction. We can easily detect if Iran or any other country conducts an underground test from the seimic signature. Until we detect a successful test, this is useless worrying. Of course, countries like Japan, Germany etc. do have the scientific expertise and respect for the scientific method to create a nuclear device but chose not to do so as having such devices does not make you safer-free markets, individual freedom and responsilibity and respect for the rule of law make a nation strong. Israel does have those characteristics and thus is a natural ally of the U.S. A culture with a respect for education, research and individualism (a central tenet of the Jewish culture and their singular contribution to Western civilization) will always outperform a collectivist society based upon organized superstition (i.e. Islam) like Iran.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 14:12
#451953
Indeed, in 1944 and 45, not, they used extensive supercomputer modeling and hundreds of real tests were required before they got it right, despite the superior technology available at the time. Indeed, they did not test the U-235 based bomb design even once, unless you consider the detonation above Hiroshima a "test". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Boy
1945 dude. A U-235 bomb is almost child's play once you have the U-235 purified enough. The scientists who designed the first one didn't think it would need any full scale testing. That's how sure they were.
As to the technology of shaped charges needed to make a plutonium bomb work, you can ask the families of hundreds of dead American soldiers whether there are any iranians working in the field of shaped charges. The problems in '45 have been surmounted a zillion fold. You can buy the electronics needed to pull this off over the counter, anywhere, without raising suspicion. The explosives needed to do this can be synthesized by competent chemists, of which there are thousands in Iran.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 14:30
#451973
I was trained in physics, spoke to Manhatten alumni, and have to mostly back him up, here.
Uranium bombs are highly purity sensitive - US spent a freaking fortune getting that done in WW2. Easier now, BUT the problems involved were still enough to kill the South African project (minimum charge weights were so high as to make the weapons undeliverable).
Plutonium bombs are geometry sensitive, need to have perfect timing of the component charges of explosive lens. The explosives are easy, but the switching is not. I gather the US works hard to monitor the sort of super-fast switches needed, as they are not so useful for anything else, but I don't imagine they would be impossible for a sovereign Country to produce (and could be tested in secret ad libitum).
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 19:50
#452325
1945 dude. 1945. As to plutonium bombs, the switching speed problem in electronics is ancient history in terms of progress in that field. Ancient. Also, physics is not a state secret, as you'd know if you've studied physics, which I do not doubt.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 20:32
#452368
As I recall our failure to prevent Pakistan from getting the older switches (Klystrons?) is what allowed them to become a nuclear power. Not sure about their rival India.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 22:38
#452521
Jeeebus H, is this still 1980? Last time I checked, it was 2010, 65 years after the first U-235 bomb was detonated for the first (and so far the last) time. I can go buy a multi-GHz bandwidth oscilloscope over the counter today without raising an eyebrow, and we've got people thinking fast switches are hard to get, or the means to develop them are top secret.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 09:53
#451563
Updated DOW chart:
http://stockmarket618.wordpress.com
http://www.zerohedge.com/forum/latest-market-outlook-1
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 10:03
#451572
Golly GS. I am so happy that you brought your insight to the topic we are engaged in discussing. Your insight on Russian ties to Iran and how that all plays out to destabilize the region were timely and spot on.
In addition, your critique of the authors level of research helped us all see deeper into this area that so few have read much about.
Thanks for your great contribution and its a pleasure to read what you have written.
By the way, nice ad.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 10:00
#451570
I'm surprised no one shared this yet. One more evil nail in the Goldman coffin.
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-har...
How Goldman Sachs Gambled On Starving the Poor - And Won
by Johann Hari
By now, you probably think your opinion of Goldman Sachs and its swarm of Wall Street allies has rock-bottomed at raw loathing. You're wrong. There's more. It turns out the most destructive of all their recent acts has barely been discussed at all. Here's the rest. This is the story of how some of the richest people in the world - Goldman, Deutsche Bank, the traders at Merrill Lynch, and more - have caused the starvation of some of the poorest people in the world, just so they could make a fatter profit.
It starts with an apparent mystery. At the end of 2006, food prices across the world started to rise, suddenly and stratospherically. Within a year, the price of wheat had shot up by 80 percent, maize by 90 percent, and rice by 320 percent. In a global jolt of hunger, 200 million people - mostly children - couldn't afford to get food any more, and sank into malnutrition or starvation. There were riots in over 30 countries, and at least one government was violently overthrown. Then, in spring 2008, prices just as mysteriously fell back to their previous level. Jean Ziegler, the UN Special Rapporteur on the Right to Food, called it "a silent mass murder", entirely due to "man-made actions."
Earlier this year I was in Ethiopia, one of the worst-hit countries, and people there remember the food crisis like they were hit by a tsunami. "It was very painful," a woman my age called Abeba Getaneh, told me. "My children stopped growing. I felt like battery acid had been poured into my stomach as I starved. I took my two daughters out of school and got into debt. If it had gone on much longer, I think my baby would have died."
Most of the explanations we were given at the time have turned out to be false. It didn't happen because supply fell: the International Grain Council says global production of wheat actually increased during that period, for example. It isn't because demand grew either. We were told the swelling Chinese and Indian middle classes were pushing it up, but as Professor Jayati Ghosh of the Centre for Economic Studies in New Delhi has shown, demand from those countries for them actually fell by 3 percent over this period.
There are some smaller explanations that account for some of the price rise, but not all. It's true the growing demand for biofuels was gobbling up much-needed agricultural land - but that was a gradual process that wouldn't explain a violent spike. It's true that oil prices increased, driving up the cost of growing and distributing food - but the evidence increasingly shows that wasn't the biggest factor.
To understand the biggest cause, you have to plough through some concepts that will make your head ache - but not half as much as they made the poor world's stomachs ache.
For over a century, farmers in wealthy countries have been able to engage in a process where they protect themselves against risk. Farmer Giles can agree in January to sell his crop to a trader in August at a fixed price. If he has a great summer and the global price is high, he'll lose some cash, but if there's a lousy summer or the price collapses, he'll do well from the deal. When this process was tightly regulated and only companies with a direct interest in the field could get involved, it worked well.
Then, through the 1990s, Goldman Sachs and others lobbied hard and the regulations were abolished. Suddenly, these contracts were turned into 'derivatives' that could be bought and sold among traders who had nothing to do with agriculture. A market in "food speculation" was born.
So Farmer Giles still agrees to sell his crop in advance to a trader for £10,000. But now, that contract can be sold on to financial speculators, who treat the contract itself as an object of potential wealth. Goldman Sachs can buy it and sell it on for £20,000 to Deutschebank, who sell it on for £30,000 to Merryl Lynch - and on, and on, provided they think the price can be jacked up, until it seems to bear almost no relationship to Farmer Giles' crop at all.
If this seems mystifying, it is. John Lanchester, in his superb guide to the world of finance, 'Whoops! Why Everybody Owes Everyone and No One Can Pay', explains: "Finance, like other forms of human behaviour, underwent a change in the twentieth century, a shift equivalent to the emergence of modernism in the arts - a break with common sense, a turn towards self-referentiality and abstraction and notions that couldn't be explained in workaday English."
Poetry found its break broke with straightforward representation of reality when T.S. Eliot wrote 'The Wasteland.' Finance found its Wasteland moment in the 1970s, when it began to be dominated by complex financial instruments that even the people selling them didn't fully understand. As Lanchester puts it: "With derivatives... there is a profound break between the language of finance and that of common sense."
So what has this got to do with the bread on Abiba's plate? How could this parallel universe of speculation affect her? Until deregulation, the price for food was set by the forces of supply and demand for food itself. (This was itself deeply imperfect: it left a billion people hungry.) But after deregulation, it was no longer just a market in food. It became, at the same time, a market in contracts that were speculating on theoretical food that would be grown in the future - and the speculators drove the price through the roof.
Here's how it happened. In 2006, financial speculators like Goldman's pulled out of the collapsing US real estate market, and they were looking for somewhere else to make their stash of cash swell. They started to buy massive amounts of derivatives based on food: they reckoned that food prices would stay steady or rise while the rest of the economy tanked. Suddenly, the world's frightened investors stampeded onto this ground and decided to buy, buy, buy.
So while the supply and demand of food stayed pretty much the same, the supply and demand for contracts based on food massively rose - which meant the all-rolled-into-one price for food on people's plates massively rose. The starvation began.
The food price was now being set by speculation, rather than by real food. The hedge fund manager Michael Masters estimated that even on the regulated exchanges in the US - which take up a small part of the business - 64 percent of all wheat contracts were held by speculators with no interest whatever in real wheat. They owned it solely to inflate the price and sell it on. Even George Soros said this was "just like secretly hoarding food during a hunger crisis in order to make profits from increasing prices." The bubble only burst in March 2008 when the situation got so bad in the US that the speculators had to slash their spending to cover their losses back home.
When I asked them to comment on the charge of causing mass hunger, Merrill Lynch's spokesman said: "Huh. I didn't know about that." He later emailed to say: "I am going to decline comment." Deutsche Bank also refused to comment. Goldman Sachs were a little more detailed in their response: they said "serious analyses... have concluded index funds did not cause a bubble in commodity futures prices", offering as evidence a single statement by the OECD.
How do we know this is wrong? As Professor Ghosh points out, some vital crops are not traded on the futures markets, including millet, cassava, and potatoes. Their price rose a little during this period - but only a fraction as much as the ones affected by speculation. Her research shows this speculation was "the main cause" of the rise.
So it has come to this. The world's wealthiest speculators set up a casino where the chips were the stomachs of hundreds of millions of innocent people. They gambled on increasing starvation, and won. This is what happens when you follow the claim that unregulated markets know best to the end of the line. The finance sector's Wasteland moment created a real wasteland. What does it say about our political and economic system that we can so casually inflict such misery, and barely even notice?
If we don't re-regulate, it is only a matter of time before this all happens again. How long would it last then? How many people would it kill next time? The moves to restore the pre-1990s rules on commodities trading have been stunningly sluggish. In the US, the House has passed some regulation, but there are fears the Senate - drenched in speculator-donations - may dilute it into meaninglessness. The EU is lagging far behind even this, while in Britain, where most of this "trade" takes place, advocacy groups are worried David Cameron's government will block reform entirely to please his own friends and donors in the City.
Only one force can stop another speculation-starvation-bubble from swelling, probably soon. The decent people in developed countries need to shout louder than the lobbyists from Goldman Sachs. In the UK, the World Development Movement is launching a week of action this summer as crucial decisions on this are taken: text WDM to 82055 for your marching orders. In the US, click here to find out what you can do. The last time I spoke to her, Abiba said: "We can't go through that another time. Please - do anything you can to make sure they never, never do that to us again."
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 10:04
#451574
Gully: I guess you did not get the backdrop certificate, but GS is a Zombie, its already dead, it can't be killed!!!!!...:-)
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 10:28
#451598
I could be mistaken but I thought zombies (in films) could be killed by cutting off of the head?
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 10:37
#451613
Snidley Whipsnae
"I could be mistaken but I thought zombies (in films) could be killed by cutting off of the head?"
Yep or a bullet to the brain. That is why head shots are so common in video games.
But traditionally Zombies have the mouth filled with salt and sewn shut. A also recall something about quartering the body and burying those in different locations.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 10:46
#451625
...hand saw, check...silver bullet, check...crucifix, check...wooden stake, check...garlic, check...salt/needle/thread, check. OK...I need a bigger backpack.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 10:56
#451640
Snidley Whipsnae
silver bullet, check = werewolves
crucifix, check...wooden stake, check...garlic = vampires.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 11:11
#451660
'Be Prepared'...the ol' Boy Scout Motto! :)
If I avoid Wall St and Transylvania?
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 10:29
#451601
Sqworl
Everything dies.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 10:49
#451629
Gully...you have more history than future...that's fo sho, but seriously do you really believe that the Zombies will die????....:-)
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 10:58
#451643
Sqworl
A king once called is wisest men to him and asked them to create something to make him happy when he was sad and sad when he was happy.
After pondering for weeks one wise man returned.He handed the king a simple note. The note said
" All things must pass".
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 11:19
#451672
Just like Gas...lmao
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 10:07
#451576
Ah GS, you can make the money by sucking the wallet of the whale, or make like the whale and cruise for krill. Its a meal however you do it. Balance sheets are not colored red, just black and white.
Its Bonus Time.
don't look now Squid: Instant Karma's Gonna Get Ya!
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 10:40
#451614
lol...:-)
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 11:12
#451661
Interesting, but off topic. There are plenty of other places to post this material. Just a suggestion....Peace.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 11:42
#451717
Your bald head comes to mind...lol
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 12:31
#451795
+1 trillion, Gully, my main man!
Yup, and to repeat as many before me have already explained, Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley using a simple FpML script, make nth degree of trades back and forth, over their InterContinental Exchange (ICE), ICE Futures, ICE Clear, ICE Europe, etc., while shorting those soft commodity futures, and voila, their vile and dastardly deed is done!
My only piddling exception is that I don't consider any of this to involve casinos or gambling, it is too obviously rigged.
(Which is EXACTLY why the entertainment industry lobbied for, and received, an exemption on that so-called financial reform legislation recently passed so their industry couldn't be turned into the next derivatives speculation market.)
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 15:42
#452082
Thanks, Gully. Some excellent insight in there.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 20:12
#452348
That is truly disgusting. Not exactly an old time market corner; A sort of ferocious feeding frenzy. I'm not buying 'Unintended Consequences' if there is a God these people will PAY.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 10:03
#451573
How the interventions of the past created Hamas and Al-QaedaUp until the 1970’s the most dominant ideology in the world was Pan-Arabism. It was a movement that called for unification among the people and countries of the Arab World, from the Atlantic Ocean to the Arabian Sea. It was a secular movement which was based on modern western principles of self-autonomy which were the ideological foundations of the establishment of nation states throughout Europe in the 19th century.Pan Arabism asserted that the Arabs constitute a single nation. However, since it was based on socialist principles, and since it had strongly opposed Western political involvement in the Middle East, it was perceived by The United States and Israel as a threat. Much like the case with the Taliban, which was used to confront the Soviet “Enemy”, the Hamas was funded directly by Israel, and indirectly by United States in order to fight the secular movement name the PLO, which was head by Yasser Arafat.This ideology has lost much of its support in the Arab world, but was replaced by a religious one which much more remote from Western lifestyle and ideology the Pan- Arabism ever was. So the United States and Israel got what they wanted but are now faced with even a bigger mess. Much like in economics, every intervention creates even larger imbalances.Understanding “Blowback” and the Case for a Non Interventionist Foreign Policy
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 10:29
#451600
I'd like to add that in the very beginning, the Pan-Arabism was conceived, born, developed, tough to the masses and was paid for from Moscow. The university that the russin spy cick attended (University of International Friendship, known in the 60s and 70s as the Patrice Lumumba University) was it's "incubator." Just look at its alumni: Ayatolla Khamenei, Carlos the Jackal, Mahmoud Abbass, etc.
I, however, unlike with the Taliban, seen no credible info that USA knowingly supported Hamas.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 10:35
#451611
b_thunder
"I, however, unlike with the Taliban, seen no credible info that USA knowingly supported Hamas."
One could say the same thing about Hal Turner working for the FBI, but now we know differently.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 11:04
#451651
Do you have the proof? Where can I see it?
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 11:30
#451693
Eh? Maybe Modern Pan-Arabism. Pan-Arabism was present from the start of the great Muslim conquest in the 6 and 700's.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 10:08
#451577
I'm still grappling with the question of how how a world led by huge cities, Washington, New York, London, Shanghai, Moscow, Tehran, etc, can function in a world of lose nukes? Inevitably, some group or another with a grudge gets a loose nuke and sets it off in a big city. Inevitably countries have to decentralize and deurbanize to survive. The Iran situation highlights the dilemma.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 10:20
#451589
I think that is a classic case of fear based manufacturing of consent. Talk about scaring a population into yet another act of aggression!!
Did you think that about Afghanistan?
Did you think that about Iraq?
Will you think that about Pakistan?
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 10:25
#451594
"Inevitably countries have to decentralize and deurbanize to survive."
So we all move to the exurbs and drive 140 round trip miles to work every day untill a nuke goes off in our urban/near urban work place, taking out the entire financial system and supply lines of food, fuel, medicine, etc? Really rational! I would rather be at ground zero than slowly starve to death!
How about this for an idea: Let Israel and Iran settle their differences and the US, et al, can butt out? 'Beware of foreign entanglements'...Ben Franklin...
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 10:43
#451620
Forget about Israel or Iran. With the technological revolution it's getting easier and easier to manufacture nuclear material and devices, and their delivery systems. Nuclear programs are proliferating world wide. Russia isn't quite sure it can account for its thousands of nukes. 60 Minutes did a story.
I'm taking a bigger view. With more countries making more nukes, and hatred still a prominent part of the human psyche, some group will end up getting a nuke and using it to settle a grudge. It only takes one.
If good intelligence, treaties, and international cooperation are not enough, and every city becomes a potential target of some group with a grudge, then the only viable strategy I can see is to deurbanize the population. Or take your chances.
Any other ideas?
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 10:45
#451623
You are EXACTLY right, which is why I de-urbanized myself and family 2 years ago.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 11:32
#451699
De-urbanize is fine...just make sure you aren't downwind!
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 19:59
#452335
The fallout dust is not too hard to counter. Worst is internal contamination (lungs). Get a dose that way & you're toast. Serious housekeeping, washdowns for about 2 weeks constant checks with geiger counter, no problemo. Just don't breathe in any.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 10:50
#451631
Instant Karma
http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/1029/strangeadventures14125jl4.jpg
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Atomic_Knight
Original Atomic Knights
The only Atomic Knights cover appearance in Strange Adventures #144. Note the giant Dalmatians.
The Atomic Knights appeared off and on in issues of Strange Adventures in the early 1960s, beginning with #117 (June 1960). Created by John Broome and Murphy Anderson, they were a band of heroes living in the post-apocalyptic future of 1992.
Following the catastrophic Hydrogen War of 1986, a petty tyrant named the Black Baron ruled a small section of the Midwest with an iron fist. He was opposed by Sgt. Gardner Grayle and the Atomic Knights, who wore medieval suits of armor that were impervious to the Baron's energy weapons, having been irradiated in the war. The other Knights were twins Wayne and Hollis Hobard, Bryndon Smith, the last scientist left on Earth, and brother and sister Douglas and Marene Herald.
The Atomic Knights, mid-'70s incarnation.
The fifteen Atomic Knights stories in Strange Adventures generally dealt with post-holocaust recovery, as the Knights would fend off menaces and attempt to rebuild the area around their homebase of Durvale, though they also managed to travel to Los Angeles, Detroit, New Orleans, New York, and Washington, D.C. In all, there were fifteen early-1960s Atomic Knights stories; their last appearance in Strange Adventures came in issue #160 (January 1964).
http://www.toonopedia.com/atomic_k.htm
The series opened in Strange Adventures #117 (June, 1960). World War III had occurred in 1986, more than a quarter-century in the readers' future. A few years later, the area around Durvale, a Midwest American town, was ruled by The Black Baron, who hoarded the few remaining food stocks in his fortress, and enforced his will with ruthless strong-arms wielding high-tech energy weapons. Sgt. Gardner Grayle, formerly of the U.S. Army, discovered the key to the Baron's defeat — a half-dozen suits of medieval armor that stood in a local museum, and had, partly through the passage of time and partly because of wartime irradiation, become impervious to energy blasts from the Baron's weapons. He took one suit for himself, and recruited four local men — Douglas Herald, a scientist identified only as "Bryndon", and twin brothers Wayne and Hollis Hobard, to wear others. The final suit, too small for for a man, was worn by Herald's sister, Marene. Together, The Atomic Knights stormed the Baron's fortress and distributed food to the hungry populace.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 10:55
#451638
"Any other ideas?"
I feel your anxiety about this situation but I have been in this home 21 years and do not want to move. So, I will go for 'Or take your chances'... and, good luck to you whatever course you choose.
BTW, back in the '50s/60s cold war hysteria was much greater than now. Many small tract homes had bomb shelters in their back yards. Kids in the schools were taught 'duck and cover' at first sight of a nuclear explosion. It was a scary time for kids.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 11:01
#451649
Snidley Whipsnae
I stop by Automatic Earth every day. They have been preaching Deflation leading to Hyperinflation for quite a while now.
Go there and read through the primers and archives.
http://theautomaticearth.blogspot.com/2010/07/july-3-2010-dollar-denomin...
Stoneleigh: Since we at The Automatic Earth generally tell people to hold cash or cash equivalents, it makes sense to expand on that a little, and to point out some of the location-specific risks of doing so. We tell people to hold cash because that is what they will need access to in order to make debt payments and to purchase the essentials of life in a society with little or no remaining credit. The value of cash domestically - in terms of goods and services in your own local area - is what matters most.
Domestic currency value relative to other currencies internationally will be very much a secondary concern for most people, as the ability to exchange one currency for another is not likely to last far into the coming era of capital controls. Currency risk is likely to become very large, and almost everyone will be better off holding whatever passes for cash wherever they happen to be.
As the price of goods and services fall, thanks to the destruction of purchasing power brought about by collapsing money supply, what cash you still have will go a lot further in terms of, say, milk and bread. Capital preserved as liquidity will go a long way. However, there are no no-risk scenarios. Apart from the obvious risks of fire, flood and theft, other risks to holding cash will grow over time. Liquidity can be as hard to hold on to as it sounds.
One particular risk is the reissuing of currency. Russia did this during the economic collapse of the Soviet Union, and made it so difficult for ordinary people to convert old currency into new that much of the middle class lost their life-savings. In Russia trust in relation to banks was not particularly high, hence there was a lot of money under the beds of the nation that the powers-that-be were attempting to flush out. That is not the case in present day industrialized countries, where people generally believe that banks are safe and deposits are publicly guaranteed in any case.
On top of that, few people have savings, having become dependent on access to cheap credit for their rainy-day funds. There is virtually nothing under the beds of the Western nation, and so essentially nothing to flush out.
Although that particular rationale for currency reissue does not really exist (the flushing out of hidden wealth), there may be other reasons for doing so, and these will be locational. The risk of currency reissue in the US is likely to be low for some time. The US is likely to benefit from capital flight from other places, on a knee-jerk flight to safety.
In addition, dollar-denominated debt deflation will increase demand for dollars, and hence increase their value. This should reduce pressure for any kind of radical currency reform for a while. If the US does eventually reissue its currency, I would imagine them doing so in order to deprive foreign holders of dollars of purchasing power. There are very large numbers of dollars held overseas, and these would not be able to be exchanged in a currency reissue. At some point this may serve the interests of the US, but not soon.
The situation in Europe is far more complex, and the risk is likely to vary between European countries. The reason is that the euro is less of a single currency than it is a strong currency peg. Whereas in the US the primary loyalty is to the political unit that issues the currency, in Europe the primary loyalty is to a lower level political unit. Currency values are grounded in relationships of trust, and the disparity between primary loyalty and currency control suggests that this essential component is weak in Europe. Where trust is weak, common currencies are also weak and my have a limited lifespan.
I think it very likely that the eurozone will decrease in size over the next few years, as the countries of the periphery find the austerity measures they are forced to live with increasingly intolerable. The social divisions that will widen as austerity measures are applied locationally will have greater and greater effects. Europe has a long history of conflict, with each country feeling that the natural extent of its own sphere of influence is whatever is was at its maximum past extent. This means that they all overlap on a continent with a long history of imperial rise and fall.
Emotional responses to past events still run very deep in Europe, even where those events were hundreds of years ago. This is a recipe for balkanization once there is no longer enough to go around. Witness for instance the ridiculous marching season in Northern Ireland, which exists to rub the noses of the catholic population in a defeat (the Battle of the Boyne) from several centuries past. That sort of behaviour is grotesque and should be an outright anachronism in a modern Europe, yet it persists, and there are other comparable examples (see for instance the reaction of Serbian people to the anniversary of the Battle of Kosovo Polye).
All common currency zones define zones of predation, that is: define the regions that feed an imperial centre. The current European periphery includes such nations as Greece, Spain, Portugal, Ireland and all of Eastern Europe. It may also include Italy and the Netherlands, as both of these areas have major debt issues (housing bubbles and national debt). It would also include the UK in a sense, despite the fact that the UK is not part of the single currency. The UK is an international financial centre of considerable stature, but has an enormous debt problem and very few visible means of support going forward, once North Sea oil and gas cease to provide revenues and the City of London takes an inevitable knock-out blow.
I would expect the eurozone to be composed of a much smaller number of countries in the future than it is now, as peripheral countries are driven to the brink and beyond. The risk of currency reissue in these countries is therefore significantly elevated in comparison with the US, for instance. Where that risk is higher, there will be greater impetus for moving from cash to hard goods sooner rather than later. In places where that risk is smaller, one may wait longer for the price of hard goods to fall and therefore spend less on them. Where that risk is larger, the wait should be shorter, even though that would mean paying more, so long as debt is still not part of the equation.
Short term bonds (the primary cash equivalent) are not really an option in Europe the way they are in the US. The shortest term available is measured in years rather than months, which could easily be too long. This means that Europeans will face harder choices on this front as well. I would suggest that Europeans afraid of facing a currency reissue should consider the value of hard goods sooner rather than later. As always, pooling resources can get you further own the list of recommended priorities than you could possibly hope to achieve on your own (ie hold no debt, hold cash and cash equivalents and gain control over the essentials of your own existence).
Everyone will need to make the transition from cash to hard goods at some point. Cash is what you need to navigate the great deleveraging, but over the time the risks to cash will rise and you will need to think of the next phase, which is addressing the risk of the kind of economic upheaval that breaks supply lines. That will come first, and inflation (ie actual currency printing) will come much later. Inflation is only a risk once the power of the bond market has been broken, and that is not today's risk, nor tomorrow's.
That is something to consider much further down the line. Deflation and depression are mutually reinforcing in a spiral of positive feedback. That is not a dynamic that will end quickly, but end it will some day. At that point, or well before depending on where you live, you will want to be fully invested in hard goods.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 11:21
#451675
Gully Foyle...Thanks, I have followed Illagri and Stoneleigh since back when they posted on The Oil Drum. I read that one yesterday but appreciate your pointing it out. I almost always agree with Stonleigh... I am Austrian School. Gold/silver IS money.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 20:21
#452357
Gold is too scarce and skewed in distribution to be used as money for 7 billlion humans.
Gold standard won't ensure fiscal prudency on its own
All we need is a disciplined credit system for a single currency/currencies too
I know they will howl away at the sight of those words but currency arbitrage is one thing that we can do without in this credit crazy world
Maybe G-20 can act as curerncy issuer instead of Fed
It is not meant to be perfect but should be better than the present one where one nation sits and prints money for living.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 15:25
#452055
Gulley,
Some valid points made,
but........."One particular risk is the reissuing of currency. Russia did this during the economic collapse of the Soviet Union, and made it so difficult for ordinary people to convert old currency into new that much of the middle class lost their life-savings"
As did Korea...............
Now can you think of a better reason for holding some PM's, than this?,in a JIC scenario.............I can't.
Plus your assuming, that in this case, cash would HAVE value.Maybe,maybe not............
Also,most of the sheeples are asleep at the wheel.
Just STOP, and think about it,what IF, the Fed decided to do the above now.
And you got (30 days) to turn in 10-1/50-1/100/1000, or lose ALL value?.............can you think of a better way to bring the population to it's knees?.
I can't............
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 10:33
#451606
Instant Karma
"some group or another with a grudge gets a loose nuke and sets it off in a big city"
Really not that easy to explode a nuke.
Dirty bombs are regular bombs with radioactive materials attached. The explosion spreads the materials. Limited range and effectiveness, but more realistic.
The real problem is we have been sold so much fiction regarding terrorist attacks we confuse reality with the movies.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 11:14
#451656
Fission bombs are very easy to explode. Critical mass of fissile material is separated on two ends of bomb. Small conventional explosion brings them together to form critical mass. Then you have full blown nuclear explosion. Not state of the art, but enough to take out a city. All you really need is the material. Delivery could be as easy as putting in a seatainer, and blow up in a port. A little more could get it to the top of a building. Either way, it is a matter of "when" not "if". It is a frightening scenario that I am actually surprised has not already played out.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 11:43
#451721
It hasn't "played out" because "the terrorists" are morons, snot-rollers and navel-defluffers to a man! Everytime they recruit someone remotely competent, the first priority is for the sucker to blow himself up - thus removing any skills and any learning from the operation.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 11:49
#451732
I tend to agree. Our greatest protection so far has been the lack of competence of the would be terrorist. Luckily, for the most part they are small thinkers. Lets hope it remains so.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 12:33
#451806
The Myth of the Suicide Bomber:
http://www.rense.com/general67/suicc.htm
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 12:49
#451837
Uh, what makes you think it won't be some nut job christian American doing the bomb?
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 13:57
#451932
What nonsense! If you think its so easy to design a functioning device why did it take the greatest scientific talent ever assembled (the Manhatten project) to design the first one. It not just critical mass-its the ability to get an autocatalytic neutron chain reaction where more neutrons are produced than lost via radiation. So you need a neutron reflection shield around your critical mass or all that happens is dispersion of the fissile material when the conventional explosive detonates (the so called-dirty bomb). Comments like this one are why we need better science education in America. By the way, every nation who acquired nuclear capability got it by stealing it from the US-not by original design and engineering-they didn't have the talent for that.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 17:46
#452243
The Manhatten project was hard because it had never been done. First of anything is hard. A fusion bomb is extremely complex, a fission bomb is extremely simple.
On the attack on my scientific credentials . . . I would be happy to compare credentials if you wish.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 18:51
#452273
A colleague of mine was the A team nuclear weapons design team leader at Livermore. He tells me that building a fission device is trivial. (creating the fissile material is the hard part) . Or, as Edward Teller wrote: "The Uranium bomb dropped on japan, little boy, was so simple that it didn't need testing." Also note that there was not enough refined uranium for testing.The first Uranium fissile device ever exploded was Little Boy. Fat man was a plutonium device and this is the one that was tested prior to dropping on Japan.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 19:29
#452306
Hey hulk, good to hear from you. Teller was an intriguing man. He worked way on up into his very old age. He had a brilliant mind, and was well versed on any topic imaginable. Most of the Manhatten guys were all gone by the time I came along, but I did get to meet a lot of the people from the early h-bomb days . . . guys who watched the open air testing. I talked to several who were at the original trinity explosion, and I was able to meet with the Enola Gay crew. Not trying to glorify nukes . . . we definitely let the genie out of the bottle when we went down that path, but there are some incredibly interesting stories behind the nuke program.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 19:23
#452308
You know I think they set off a bomb in New Mexico in a tower first. Turned the desert into cool radioactive green glass. Now it's a tourist attraction.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 19:35
#452317
It was the trinity site near Alamogordo NM. The sand was turned to glass, and the glass was given the name "Trinitite". The site is closed to the public, but I believe opens once a year. You are not allowed to take Trinitite, as it is still somewhat radioactive.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 15:29
#452059
Rebel,
Ditto's............unless somethings changed, I believe close to 100 suitcase Soviet nukes are still AT LARGE.
If memory serves.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 19:53
#452328
We had (have?) them too. I heard that the teams used to discuss amongst themsevles whether the time delay was for real or BS. Very germaine if they were to consider you expendable. No way you could tell ahead of time, kind of a morale problem. Trust us just place it & push the button (yeah, sure).
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 12:31
#451802
Gully--Dirty bomb tougher (if it is to be "dirty") because if activated pre-detonation to be effective then it is too hot fo handle. If it is just radioactive material and not activated, then effect much less (great initial psycological effect granted, cleanup is well understood).
But as commented above, put it into a CONEX box and it doesn't even need to reach port, harbor good enough and mud in the fireball will get activated. CONEX means it doesn't need to be "weaponized" to fit into a delivery system.
Edgerton, Grier, and Germeshausen figured out the technology in '44, widely known today.
- Ned
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 11:34
#451705
Simple. Big cities, and the nations they lead, must MUST adhere to the principles of non-aggression. Humans are rational, even within irrational systems like religion and governments. So long as you do not violate their natural rights (life, liberty, and property), you will never be on the receiving end of so much as a terrorist attack, much less a nuclear one. This is why Switzerland has never been attacked, even as they have a large and growing Arab population. Of course, they have opened themselves up to attacks now because they are starting to remove the liberties of their Arab population--ie no scarves, no minarets, etc.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 11:52
#451738
So, If we just do what the arabs say, there will be no terrorism!? I think Bin Laden said the same thing a while back - I also think that the arabs should bring it - We kicked their camel-humping, thieving arses out of Europe many times before so, maybe, if we do it one more time eventually they may learn?
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 15:35
#452071
faj,
too late for the U.K., and France..............who's next up?.
Large populations of muslims, and refuse to assimilate, riot almost nightly..........(not carried on the news, for sure in the US).
Aussie leaders are only one's with the NADS to keep the disease from, spreading.(like it used to be here, OUR contry, Our laws, and traditions.........)
And no, you do not get your OWN set of rules/law, that set you apart.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 12:02
#451759
Maybe they don't want to turn into a freaking, foreign country.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 12:35
#451810
tm-
...er...mountains? everyone is in the reserves? loaded out in their safes at home?, holding the financial secrets (lately not so much)?
Nothing to do with their "natural rights" per se. They are in position to enforce their "natural rights."
- Ned
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 20:11
#452345
Tmosley, terrorist apologist. Because if you did what the muslims in your country wanted, they wouldn't have to kill your civilians.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 14:16
#451961
Indeed, we should pre-emptively decentralize the United States, modify the Constitution to have it read as a federal system where all but essentially national, regal powers are reserved to the states, or the people..... Oh, wait...
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 15:20
#452049
IK-Robert Heinlein's story "Friday" has this decentralization as a part of the back-story. Loose nukes, corporate entities/non-state-actors vs. fixed entities.
Things were much simpler with MAD.
- Ned
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 10:13
#451583
Can ZHs potential as a viable cutting edge financial blog be possibly undermined by half assed ww3 scenarios just a little bit more?
Is it not "fringe" enough? About the only way to get a little further down tin-foil hat avenue is to sneak a laptop into a closed mental facility and let the pateints blog away on ZH.
"I have a recurring nightmare", sets an apt tone for this peice and encourages the reader to don the tinfoil hat and grab some popcorn for the apocalyptic bipolar wankfest sure to be laid out in terms these types like the best; that is where the likelihood of the scenario ever happening is subjugated exponentially whenever it might threaten a juicy detail of the firey end "vision". "Recurring nightmare", wtf?? I have recurring nitemares too, they are bizzarre and scary, but irrrational.
Now I know a holiday weekend is slow and maybe ZH just opens the doors to anyone who has read too may Tom Clancy novels and went to Barnes and Noble and actally bought the bulky "Janes" guide to military hardware, in order to stir up hits, but damn.
Critics of the site typically ignore the many articles beating the MSMs track record all to hell on the truth of capital markets and focus on crap like this. Short term hits vs long term reputation....Just sayin.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 10:54
#451637
Fazzie
"Can ZHs potential as a viable cutting edge financial blog be possibly undermined by half assed ww3 scenarios just a little bit more?"
Actually it has evolved into a source of free speech. When people start getting banned for speaking their minds then ZH destroys itself.
People are smart enough to separate the intellectual pearls from the chafe of lunacy.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 11:29
#451690
Theres been a whole lot of lunacy chafeing and precious few intellectual pearls lately. All free speech aurgments have their limitations.
Taking a pass on these jackoffs musings would certainly not make ZH anti free speech at all.
These extremely lower teir writers would still be free to send their bipolar prose to more appropiate blogs that the flying saucer/bigfoot crowd like to frequent.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 12:23
#451791
You're right, two extremely belligerant countries would certainly never go to war with each other. That would be barbaric!
And further, to imply that OTHER NATIONS would use such a conflict as a proxy war has certainly never happened not even once in history, and certainly didn't happen in every major war since World War II.
Anyone who would even suggest such a think is a crazy person!
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 13:55
#451931
Fazzie
"Theres been a whole lot of lunacy chafeing and precious few intellectual pearls lately."
Each individual decides what is meaningful to them.
Cognitive Dissonance posts self aggrandizing semi-fake-hip intellectualisms which some find " enlightening".
Some blame the Zionists or Illuminati for the woes of the world.
A few have a non-local perspective which allows them to remain as neutral as possible.
Some just make me laugh.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 12:36
#451811
Exactly! And I could only mark this post as poor, because they don't have a category for "Heritage Foundation wet dream drivel."
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 20:27
#452363
"Heritage Foundation wet dream drivel."
+1000 Sarge.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 11:36
#451709
I don't mind the weekend discussion of possible black swan events....just perhaps a little more realistic one would be better suited. Frankly I wish there was more depression, post collapse discussion on weekends. Being better prepared is always a good thing.
Full disclosure..I live in Hurricane land so I am extra paranoid.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 11:46
#451726
Papaswamp,
I would be interested in a weekend story/discussion on what people at ZH have done or are doing to prepare for potential collapse. How much of the posting is just people venting, vs. how many are taking concrete action. What have people done, and what are they doing to prepare.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 22:31
#452509
My idea of concrete action is a good solid bunker.
on Mon, 07/05/2010 - 10:18
#453007
I'm from the city, but live in the country now. I'm reading up on survival skills, storing some food, learning about water purification, have some cash and silver stashed at home, and just trying to learn what one has to do if the grid goes down. Without electricity, it's 1880.
on Mon, 07/05/2010 - 11:07
#453091
The single simplest thing you can do for self sufficiency is buy chickens. 10 chickens will produce 8-9 eggs a day. That is a very good start on feeding yourself.
on Mon, 07/05/2010 - 23:36
#453841
THe most modern forms of survivalism involve acquiring medical, back country & military skills & networking & linking up (lone wolfs are out). More like a privatized civil defense than the old bunker mentality. You are in the country now good first step. Link up, join the posse or something, become a paramedic. Good luck.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 23:16
#452580
Ooops. My bad. I'll see if I can get the laptop back soon.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 10:23
#451592
What you are describing is the Biblical battle of Magog, found in Ezekiel 38 and 39.
1 The word of the LORD came to me: 2 "Son of man, set your face against Gog, of the land of Magog [Russia], the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal; prophesy against him 3 and say: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I am against you, O Gog, chief prince of Meshech and Tubal. 4 I will turn you around, put hooks in your jaws and bring you out with your whole army—your horses, your horsemen fully armed, and a great horde with large and small shields, all of them brandishing their swords. 5 Persia [Iran], Cush and Put [Turkey, and other middle east countries] will be with them, all with shields and helmets, 6 also Gomer with all its troops, and Beth Togarmah from the far north with all its troops—the many nations with you.
7 " 'Get ready; be prepared, you and all the hordes gathered about you, and take command of them. 8 After many days you will be called to arms. In future years you will invade a land that has recovered from war, whose people were gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate. They had been brought out from the nations, and now all of them live in safety. 9 You and all your troops and the many nations with you will go up, advancing like a storm; you will be like a cloud covering the land.
10 " 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: On that day thoughts will come into your mind and you will devise an evil scheme. 11 You will say, "I will invade a land of unwalled villages; I will attack a peaceful and unsuspecting people—all of them living without walls and without gates and bars. 12 I will plunder and loot and turn my hand against the resettled ruins and the people gathered from the nations, rich in livestock and goods, living at the center of the land." 13 Sheba and Dedan and the merchants of Tarshish and all her villages [the western powers] will say to you, "Have you come to plunder? Have you gathered your hordes to loot, to carry off silver and gold, to take away livestock and goods and to seize much plunder?" [weak, diplomatic response from the west] '
14 "Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say to Gog: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: In that day, when my people Israel are living in safety, will you not take notice of it? 15 You will come from your place in the far north, you and many nations with you, all of them riding on horses, a great horde, a mighty army. 16 You will advance against my people Israel like a cloud that covers the land. In days to come, O Gog, I will bring you against my land, so that the nations may know me when I show myself holy through you before their eyes.
17 " 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Are you not the one I spoke of in former days by my servants the prophets of Israel? At that time they prophesied for years that I would bring you against them. 18 This is what will happen in that day: When Gog attacks the land of Israel, my hot anger will be aroused, declares the Sovereign LORD. 19 In my zeal and fiery wrath I declare that at that time there shall be a great earthquake in the land of Israel. 20 The fish of the sea, the birds of the air, the beasts of the field, every creature that moves along the ground, and all the people on the face of the earth will tremble at my presence. The mountains will be overturned, the cliffs will crumble and every wall will fall to the ground. 21 I will summon a sword against Gog on all my mountains, declares the Sovereign LORD. Every man's sword will be against his brother. 22 I will execute judgment upon him with plague and bloodshed; I will pour down torrents of rain, hailstones and burning sulfur on him and on his troops and on the many nations with him. 23 And so I will show my greatness and my holiness, and I will make myself known in the sight of many nations. Then they will know that I am the LORD.'
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 11:33
#451701
So God basically stirs up and meddles in wars to prove his power? Something dosent seem quite right there.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 18:19
#452262
Yeah. But if you're God, you kind of get to make up the rules, regardless of whether they make any sense to the humans you've created. Unfortunately.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 20:38
#452372
Hey that 'Sovereign Lord' sounds just like me,Hahaha
Funny gods, will have to put on a show to prove us that they are gods
' I will pour down torrents ,burning sulfur[only]Then they willl know I am the Lord'
ROFL Can't help guys Sorry if it hurts sentiments but that IS Funny
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 10:27
#451595
This article is garbage. Get it off the above-fold headline articles list.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 10:42
#451604
Any intelligent person without a hidden agenda can easily prove the above statements being wrong. The Russians have screwed the Iranians time and time again. The Russian economy is almost entirely dependant on commodities primary being oil and gas. The price of oil goes up when supply is taken off the market. The Russians have allowed votes in the UN to go unchallenged knowing it would cripple the output of Iranian oil and gas fields. The Russians and Iranians have never agreed to the routes of oil and gas pipelines emanating from each other’s borders. This has enraged the Russians who want to be the king maker in the area. The Iranians want to run pipelines via direct routes to China and India. The Russians want all Iranian pipelines to traverse Russian controlled territory. The Russians have slow rolled Iran’s nuclear reactor in an attempt to gain concessions from them. Russia is also one of the few suppliers of nuclear fuel. They are pissed the Iranians want to make their own. The Russians have also refused to sell Iran effective defensive military weapon systems.
Israel has close to 2 million ethnic Russians living in the country. Russian and Israeli defense contractors are jointly developing hundreds of products. A number of these products cost hundreds of millions of dollars. There are multiple daily flights between Israel and Russia. Russians living in Israel send millions of dollars in remittances each year to family in Russia.
So tell me again how Russia and Iran are close buddies when the Russians have F’d them time and time again. Iran is looking east to China and India. Russia is nothing but a hindrance to Iran’s future development. The Russians are doing everything they can to stall Iran’s independence and development.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 11:11
#451658
No, you've got it exactly wrong. They're not ethnic Russian (anyway, not supposed to be) they're ethnic jews who used to live in what once was USSR. Yes, some jewish families include ethnic russians, but i don't think the real ethnic russians have a lot of leverage in israel. After all, they've voluntarily elected to leave their own land.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 11:45
#451683
Funny every genetic test has shown the falsity of such blather. So how is it that Sephardic (Biblical Jews) and Ashekenazi Jews (German. Polish, Russian...etc) don't have the identical genetic markers? Now if you want to claim that Ashekenazi Jews are really the decendants of a Turkic tribe from the Steppes of Russia I might believe you. Problem with that is the Kharzars nevr set foot in the Mideast.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 12:03
#451762
I read of a recent test showing the majority of ashkenazi jews had markers from that region of the ME.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 20:42
#452369
Yes and so does everyone else who hails from a region out-of-Africa have Y-chromosome and mitocondrial markers traceable to the ME. Think of the ME as a land bridge and you get the idea.
The Pope has as much of an ancestral connection to the ME as the Ashkanaz. There is a lot of arm waving and cover-up to make you think otherwise.
Wiki has a bit about don't say this truth because you're aiding anti-semites. [Ironic given the Ashkanaz lack of a Semetic origin.] Translated - this amounts to 'maintain the lie to help continue to disposess the Palestinians.'
Shattering a 'national mythology' - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 12:37
#451813
There you go again, Anarchist, bringing facts into the matter.....
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 10:41
#451616
This week's winner of the Tavistock Propaganda Award.
on Mon, 07/05/2010 - 03:54
#451617
The Zionist jackboot has weighed so heavily on the face of Western governments, that we may now have reached the inflection point where their depleted political capital may not be restored anymore.
A good indicator of this turning point is that the broad public is increasingly unresponsive, or downright hostile to even insidiously mild warmongering propaganda like this piece. The Zionist albatross will inevitably be jettisoned at the moment overt support for Israel will mean career suicide for politicians all over the Empire.
Already now, all Zionists have left is pushing their paranoia and self-serving lies for those who already are members of the death cult. The world is a lonely place for obsessive dominators, Shafeone, so spare us the whining.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 10:47
#451626
This article insults all the knowledgeble people attending this site , its pure propaganda maybe Tyler decided that it would be useful to post idiocy like this even ZH has to bend sometimes I only hope we wont see more STUFF like this in the future :) thank god it originated fro contributors section
TD it goes to you : errare humanum est perseverare diabolicum
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 10:56
#451627
Please explain how the following supports any of the above thinking:
In a nation whose rulers bear grudges and have long memories...there are centuries of Iranian and Russian conflicts...where at best they ignored each other, sometimes used each other (for example to build nuclear plant at Busheir....which the Iranians contend has been delayed by a lot of foot-dragging by the Russians) and at worst fought each other
Please tell us more about how the Russians invaded Iran in WWII
Irans mullahs subverted and were a force driving the Russians out of their Communist Provinces named Gorghan, Khroshan, Mazandaran, Gilan in Northern Iraq
Irans mullahs helped kill off the worlds largest Communist Party after Russia's...the Tudeh Party
More recently, Iran subverts and prevents Russia's version of how to divy up Caspian Basin oil reserves
Iran subverts Russia's proposed joint natural gas and oil pipeline and refinery operations.
The Mullah's are not Father Mulcahey nor Mother Theresa or Billy Graham. The mullahs were assasins (look it up) hit squads, street gang leaders, etc. In the wolf pit that included secularists, the royalists, the criminal gangs, SAVAK, the Army and the Tudeh....the mullahs got to the top of the wolf heap (1920-1979).
They did not do it by praying or studying theology.
They did it by ruthless real politic, internal media manipulation, generational brain washing though history distorting efforts (for example, the mullahs prominent and treacherous role in Mossdeghs failure) and treachery and violence.
Their story is one of the 20th Centuries most interesting.
Their enemies throughout included the Russians even more then the Brit/US axis.
This is also a huge part of any "imagine the world from inside Iran thought experiment"
The Revolutionary Guards are their hand picked, purged and controlled vanguards.
Togther they have exploited the resources and economy of Iran to the detriment of their people so they could maintain control. This includes not cooperating with any non Shite nation...that includes Saudi, Russia, France, China, US, India, etc.
The number of inititatives and attempts by many nations and leaders over time to reduce the isolation, paranoia and short term adverse to their interests thinking of the mullah led regime since 1979 needs to be listed and studied before anyone:
Decides we are 100% at fault
Names any other nation the "ally" of Iran
All the flowery words and charm offensives of Putin have not gained him a penny on a barrel of oil or gas. Same is true of China, India, Germany, France, Saudi, Turkey, US, North Korea, Japan, etc etc.
Yes, they are in closer contact with Russia and China than the US.
No Russia's pattern of actual actions and investments show much more of a connection to and desire to interact with the West
Russia needs capital and technology to exploit their natural resources and markets to buy them. Thats going to come from Iran?
Please explain the following list of Irans (very small trading amounts...Iran trades a chunk less than Finland outside of oil and gas) trading Partners arrayed from high to low:
European Economic Union
UAE
Iraq
Turkey
Japan
China
Russia
(PS: 58.7 of Russian trade is with the EU. Iran is somewhere far down the Russian list...below its ex provinces and the USA and China etc etc).
I understand how a mysterious, isolated, deliberately unclear and paranoid nation can be the subject of speculation and concern (especially considering Irans long and stronger than other nations cultural habit of blaming outsiders (remember they are surrounded by Sunni's) to divert domestic attention.
imho, our obligation is to do more netural research and less biased fear based speculation.
The biggest fact armchair speculators (including myself) have to wrap their heads around is that Iran posses neither the military or economic ability nor the history of invading others...but does think (and its leaders use that fear as a means of domestic control) it is surrounded (it is) by treacherous Sunni and anti Islamic nations...and is millenium long culturally comfortable being a pariah and in isolation.
imho...and hopefully these persepctives challenge and add to the discussion
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 10:49
#451628
I think China and Iran are a bigger issue. Though Russia has promised delivery of S-300 anti-aircraft systems...I believe they are still dragging their feet.
Additionally, China is flexing it's muscle and influence in the South China Sea.
WASHINGTON, (Kyodo) -- The Chinese government officially conveyed a new state policy to the United States in March, telling U.S. officials that it considers the South China Sea part of its "core interests" that concern China's sovereignty and territorial integrity, sources close to the matter said Sunday.
http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/business/news/20100704p2g00m0bu022000c.html
Though I agree Russia bears watching...it has a huge number of domestic issues to contend with. Most notably their demographics which are collapsing.
China on the other hand is aggressively spreading it's power and influence as it trys to quickly bring it's domestic economy (due to a slowing western demand) on-line...as it does so, it's energy needs will skyrocket. This is the country to watch.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 11:03
#451650
papaswamp
"Though Russia has promised delivery of S-300 anti-aircraft systems...I believe they are still dragging their feet."
Last I read Russia was using Turkey to deliver those.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 11:12
#451657
As of June 30 they had not been delivered...this deal is going on for several years.
" Iranian sources say a treaty on the delivery of five S-300 missiles worth 800 million dollars signed a few years ago was frozen."
http://english.ruvr.ru/2010/06/30/11127991.html
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 11:30
#451695
Never going to get delivered. Russia is playing Iran for a fool just like they played the Egyptians.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 12:38
#451815
I suspect you are quite correct...but it keeps the US off balance which they very much like. Slowly getting back at us for outspending them during Reagan's term. They can now force the US into the same position while spending very little. The Russian gamesmanship is getting better.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 19:03
#452294
The Russians play chess. Excellent training for strategy, tactics & critical thinking.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 20:54
#452382
Hahhaha Really, You think Failure of USSR and bankruptcy in 1998 was like sacrificing a pawn with an ulterior move in mind
on Mon, 07/05/2010 - 07:16
#452835
Intended more as a comment on the Russian national character than to comment on a specific mistake or victory. They know they screwed up & are now on a realistic comeback plan.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 11:16
#451668
"............classic anti-Semitic mantra, such as the myth that international Jewry controls the Western powers, etc. as their reasoning for labeling Israel the chief culprit by default. More to the point, when push comes to shove they know that President Obama harbors no love of the Jewish state (as his harsh treatment of Netanyahu shows) and will have no stomach for a war to protect it."
I've seen some propaganda on this blog before, but you must think that most of us are asleep, who know in our bones that a highly organized jewish (calling them "bankers" is like calling Jack the Ripper a barber) cabal DOES exercise immense control of the international banking system, for their own exclusive benefit, for their consiglieres, and their race.
What flapddodle. Islamists, fascist or not, are no doubt planning to attack with nukes, but to think that only Israel is targeted just shows you as one more Israel uber alles neo-con. You know, like the so-called republicans who are going to give Elena Kagan, another jew, a pass to appease AIPAC, and Shoshana Kardin.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 12:50
#451839
guess who's the jew:
http://www.henrymakow.com/is_obama_literally_americas_fi.html
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 13:50
#451923
tamboo
"guess who's the jew"
Is it a Game show?
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 18:15
#452259
It's a recurring bit on the Howard Stern Show.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 11:31
#451698
Happy Fourth Bitches!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1J5rEVB-dE
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 11:34
#451703
This is all so simple.
Pick a fight with Iran, bomb the crap out of their oil shipping facilities.
Voila. Iran loses a lot of money, is set back, and redirects its energy into repairing the damage. Europe and China pay more for oil, and have less money to use for trading with and enriching Iran. Russia is (secretly) happy.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 11:37
#451712
Russia sells missiles to Iran , Iran buys them from Russia , China is flexing her muscles etc. Everything is about the Hegemon ( USA ) and other powers trying to challenge its position. That china sides with Russia or maybe Russia sides with Iran in some political , strategic matters is obvious because the no. 1 problem now is USA encircling Russia and China with military bases and gets needed resources in exchang for paper. Future conflict is inevitable its only when not if whether it comes in 2 or 20 or maybe 50 years is beyond me. Right now America is controlled by neo-con zionist "interst group" and all this IRAN stuff is pure warmongering ,for main business of USA is war by war America expands her sphere of influence.
Its only History repearing itself after all
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 15:56
#452092
Boston,
"all this IRAN stuff is pure warmongering"
Scroll back up, and read..never mind.
The poor little Ackmenyakenoff, is the target of neo-con Zionists...
Once more............
WHO's mouth is shouting from the rooftops VOWING for the destruction of Israel, and wiping them off the face of the planet?.
Who, has Israel said the same things about, and made it a PLATFORM, all the while bustin' their collective asses,to build/refine as much weapons grade materials,increse the amount of centrifuges to up the production in order to make good on their plans................not SPOKEN in secret.
Which one is the loose cannon.................and which one would you take apart, before they get the chance........
Face it.........look at who/what your dealing with here....a Religious Fanatic, even many of the Aytollah's are afraid of his 12th Imam shit, rantings and ravings.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 20:56
#452383
WHO's mouth is shouting from the rooftops VOWING for the destruction of Israel, and wiping them off the face of the planet?.
DZ - He was misquoted ... intentionally misquoted to misdirect people like you. He talked about regieme change. Many people talk about regieme change. We do and so do the Zionists.
Iran's President Did Not Say "Israel must be wiped off the map"
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article16218.htm
[Note - can not disable Bold in rich text for some reason]
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 11:42
#451719
Is the ghostwriter for the “Shafeone” diatribe this morning actually Liz Cheney? This pro-Israel viewpoint is the war party mantra; namely that Iran is a threat to the world and only mobilization for another war will bring the United States into its true patriotic mode. What a travesty that the person who selects contributors for this weekend would have such a war-party bias that he would mar Independence Day with a Likud Party view of America’s subservient role to Israel.
It goes without saying that the article is so full of lies that it seems hardly worth the effort to refute them.
And by the way, the Muslim sympathy stature of Barack Obama, most observers now know, is a campaign contrivance. The Islam heritage, the diplomatic overtures to the Arabs, the public relations “snub” of Netanyahu, even the birthplace rumors, all fit perfectly with the camouflage of the most pro-Israel, the most Jewish-occupied, administration in history. And the contrivance worked, with huge contributions and support from AIPAC-connected banks and corporations and voting blocks. And, of course, Barack Hussein Obama talks one line… but in the end he always delivers.
Please, Zero Hedge, don’t allow this complete sellout to occur again.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 11:48
#451730
couldnt agree more JR +1000000
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 12:30
#451800
I think the Iranian 'bogeyman' isn't contrived only by Israel for the purposes of internal readiness (not that Iran doesn't verbally threated and indirectly supply insurgents bent on pushing Israel into the Med). I'm sure Russia and China both encourage Iran to sabre rattle to keep the region destabilized (good for the price of oil from Russias point of view) and keeps a substantial amount of US power projection (2 of 3 at sea carrier groups) occupied in a very small compact area (good for both Russia and China). Strategially, this makes me nervous.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 15:59
#452098
Marla.
on Sun, 07/04/2010 - 11:57
#451749
do you think Russia could solve the Chechnya problem by making peace with the Islamofascists?
then I'm buying it.
do you think the Russians want to live forever with all those Nato missiles pointed at Moscow, mere minutes away, indefensible?
then I'm buying it.
do you think the Chinese central government can maintain authoritarian control over its vast provinces, with diverse ethnic, racial, and religious differences. and you're can control tthe population when everyone has a cellphone?
put me down for two of those.
do you think the immigration problem, nearly 400 million aggressive, smart, restless sons of white anglo saxon nordic ass kicking mothers, will stop until they have all of Mexico, a nation of less than 100 million poor and oppressed people with vast resources?
please in the future dream truthfully.