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Ireland Proposes To Tax Pensions

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Ireland just floated another proposal that is sure to be another big hit with the general population:

The various tax reduction and additional expenditure measures which I am announcing today will be funded by way of a temporary levy on funded pension schemes and personal pension plans. I propose that the levy will apply at a rate of 0.6% to the capital value of assets under management in pension funds established in the State.

It will apply for a period of 4 years commencing this year and is intended to raise about €470 million in each of those years. The levy will not apply to pension funds established here and providing services and benefits solely to non-resident employers and members. Further details regarding the proposed application of the levy are set out in the Summary of Initiative Measures.

I am conscious of the concerns of the pensions industry about the impact of a levy in circumstances where the pensions sector, in common with other sectors in our economy and society, is finding the current economic and financial environment very challenging. However, the imposition of the levy is for a relatively short period and its purpose is to improve that environment by providing the means to encourage job creation in areas of our economy most likely to deliver that employment quickly.

The levy is being confined to pension funds because I believe that the alternatives for increases in taxation elsewhere at this time would be more damaging to the economy. I will be glad to consult with the pensions industry on the legislative provisions which will give effect to the levy so as to seek to minimise, where possible, any unnecessary difficulties which this measure may give rise to.

The pension levy represents a very significant contribution by the pensions industry and the many individual savers it represents to our commitment to getting the economy moving again. I am aware that the pensions sector is also concerned, given the temporary levy, about the commitment in our agreement with the EU/IMF to reduce the tax relief on pension contributions starting next year. I will examine this issue in the context of the results of the Comprehensive Review of Expenditure currently being undertaken by the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, and any resulting scope for fiscally neutral changes to the EU/IMF agreement.

While the debate of how much €470 million a year will bring to the economy at the expense of pensioners, as well as just how "relatively short term" this development will be is one thing, this latest scramble to raise funding (in lieu of Ireland's stubborn refusal to hike corporate tax rates... for now), is likely a precursor to what may and likely will happen to other "austere regimes" both in Europe, and soon in the US. We can just see it: soon enough pension funds will become demonized as being the sole beneficiaries of monetary largesse, and as a result will be forced to do their Robin Hood duty of funding various federal, state and local government empty coffers in a comparable taxation method. Ultimately, it presents the Chairman with yet one more reason to inflate risk assets as high as possible, before this "capital raising" process becomes a reality not only in Dublin, but in D.C. as well.

As for the alternative, the proposal of a financial transaction tax.... crickets.

h/t John

 

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Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:15 | 1259820 max2205
max2205's picture

HA HA HA HA AHHA

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:31 | 1259903 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

Consumers are the Krill at the bottom of the food chain,

Without their revenue the whales die.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 15:05 | 1260030 That Peak Oil Guy
That Peak Oil Guy's picture

You're probably thinking of phytoplankton, which krill feed on.

Your metaphor is good, but we do see the same behavior in the natural world, with humans doing things that kill off the phytoplankton, setting us up for long-term failure:

http://www.seakeepers.org/featured-plankton.php

TPOG

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 16:56 | 1260559 caconhma
caconhma's picture

Now I understand an old saying that Irishmen are a missing link between a man and a monkey.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:32 | 1259911 4shzl
4shzl's picture

"the imposition of the levy is for a relatively short period"

LOL.  That's right, and I'll only stick it in a little ways -- just the pink part.  So be a good lad and grab your ankles . . .

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:49 | 1259967 JimBowie1958
JimBowie1958's picture

You know it.

There is no such thing as a temporary tax on anything.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:48 | 1259980 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

This true, but they will never get me pot of gold. 

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:35 | 1259913 CPL
CPL's picture

HAHAHAHAHA...

Only way to get out of debt is to tax the debt.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:41 | 1259940 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

Actually this is a tax on the Irish equivalents of the 401K / IRA programs.  

Basically it boils down to the .gov stealing your retirement account piecemeal under color of law.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:43 | 1259954 A.W.E.S.O.M.-O 4000
A.W.E.S.O.M.-O 4000's picture

I think that's "colour" of law laddie.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 23:55 | 1261771 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

Actually the correct word is 'color'...

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:36 | 1259914 MonsterBox
MonsterBox's picture

yeah, right.  once it's in, it's in forever. 

thanks, Mick.  now we'll try it out over here on our sheeple

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:48 | 1259963 Hacked Economy
Hacked Economy's picture

Reminds me of a recent attempt by our own U.S. Senators to introduce a tax on our 401(k) and IRAs.  They were laughed out of Dodge, but determined people looking to take your money always find their way back to try again.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 23:57 | 1261779 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

There is no way that any government will default rather than steal pension fund assets. Or leave precious metals investors with their gold either, simply because they were so smart...

Wed, 05/11/2011 - 07:13 | 1261789 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

.

Wed, 05/11/2011 - 08:20 | 1262289 TheMadNumismatist
TheMadNumismatist's picture

To right! In the UK our private pensions funds just about match the national debt. As it does in the US. Now, with the furore over public sector pensions, it will be easy to distract the unwashed masses with an assault on the public sector. With the other hand they take private savings and hand over a few coupons for the soup kitchen.

Most people are so dumb they will actually THANK the scum bags for doing it and the sense of schadenfreude will assuage most.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:39 | 1259924 falak pema
falak pema's picture

IRELAND WONT TAX CORPORATES BUT THEY WILL PENSIONS!

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 15:07 | 1260035 Bob
Bob's picture

That was one large leg on the map that got them to their current position, after all.  Why change something that's workin' so well, I guess. 

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 16:35 | 1260433 Nels
Nels's picture

You are comparing an income tax with a wealth/property tax, which is not quite on target.  The neat and dirty trick is that by taxing the assets, rather than income from the assets, the government is assured a steady stream of money.  I wonder if they got the idea from the hedge funds 2+20 fee structure.  If so, yet another reason to hate the hedgies.

 

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 23:56 | 1261765 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

Correct, an income tax is dependent on these funds making money whereas a direct tax on assets such as this indicates that they know for certain that when the defaults arrive and the value of these funds plummets, they will still take their 'tax'. These funds are not going to make any profits.

The good thing about all of this is that after the collapse and ensuing revolution we will all have a system that protects individuals rights of ownership and prevents governments simply levying any old claim against some one's assets. That is more commonly known as stealing. Income is a different matter...

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 17:00 | 1260562 lynnybee
lynnybee's picture

IRELAND WON'T TAX CORPORATES BUT THEY WILL PENSIONS !  ...........

 

BINGO !!!  throw the bums out / take back our countries .

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:44 | 1259951 bigwavedave
bigwavedave's picture

HA!

 

longer range. now im thinking of retiring to ireland instead of Canada. 

 

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 16:15 | 1260364 Romford_Dave
Romford_Dave's picture

The Emerald Isle has been good for pensioners for a long time Bigwavedave as found out by UK mainstream media back in the summer of 96 http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/retiring-try-a-move-to-ir... Maybe not quite so much now after this latest ruse but there's still many a Molly to keep you feeling alive alive o even after the Guiness.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 15:18 | 1260102 Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture

Just don't tax the whiskey, all hell would break loose...

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 16:27 | 1260413 tao400
tao400's picture

Don't laugh. That is the first step in confiscation of private assets by the state. Anyone who does not think this can extend to the US and to physical gold is a fool. The state/government will do whatever it damn well wants to do. This to me is beyond scary. They have moved from cutting the value of money/dollar to an outright confiscation.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 23:48 | 1261751 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

Anyone who buys gold and silver is a fool, unless you've taken care of the tax issue first.

They will simply demand it from you and you will have no option but to pay.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:13 | 1259822 economessed
economessed's picture

Why don't they just grab citizens at random by the ankles, lift them up, shake them, and take whatever money falls out of their pockets?

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:17 | 1259832 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Why dont we just grab bankers, put a rope around their necks and haul them up lamp posts?

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:19 | 1259849 Id fight Gandhi
Id fight Gandhi's picture

Oh my no. You can't tax corporations or bankers. They might stop laundering their money there. Just make the peons pay. If they don't throw them in debtors prison.

I've heard you can be jailed for not paying your mortgage there.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:31 | 1259887 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

You can, but that would cause a substantial drop in tax revenues in Ireland, as they're all there to take advantage of the low rates.

And if you were to force all countries to have the same tax regulation, you'd effectively land in world government, and there's fuck all chance I'd trust any politician with that kind of power.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:22 | 1259850 economessed
economessed's picture

OK, but who would continue paying-off the politicians if we snuffed-out all the bankers?

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:49 | 1259972 JimBowie1958
JimBowie1958's picture

Who cares?

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:50 | 1259974 JimBowie1958
JimBowie1958's picture

double post

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:52 | 1259995 Francis Dollarhyde
Francis Dollarhyde's picture

Well you see, we let COMEX handle our hemp reserves, and when we went to take delivery...

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:59 | 1260009 uno
uno's picture

pay per view of gangsters (banksters) getting Mayan heart extraction

 

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:23 | 1259854 Troy Ounce
Troy Ounce's picture

 

The Irish gov is doing that before smashing them against the wall.

What is interesting is that the Irish population seems to like it.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:28 | 1259873 ivana
ivana's picture

they better exectute 20-30% of "non-performing" population for start

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 15:14 | 1260080 A.W.E.S.O.M.-O 4000
A.W.E.S.O.M.-O 4000's picture

I think it's time for them to put down their pints, stop fucking sheep, and get on the ball.

 

 

What's that? I've just been informed that it is in fact the Welsh, and not the Irish, who are a bunch of sheep fuckers. Apologies to all parties concerned.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 15:21 | 1260121 reload
reload's picture

LMFAO ! excellent

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:14 | 1259823 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

Spooz on highs. 

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:14 | 1259827 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

How is this news? This has been talked about for months now, of course pensions will be looted by the fat pigs in the banks!

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:27 | 1259869 Franken_Stein
Franken_Stein's picture

 

Allied Irish Banks and Anglo-Irish Bank.

 

In this context Sean FitzPatrick is tried for:

  • Temporarily transferring his loans from Anglo Irish Bank to Irish Life and Permanent to avoid financial statements
  • more Irish Life and Permanent transactions in 2008.
  • A Willie McAteer loan of 2008

David Drumm is tried for:

  • Temporarily transferring FitzPatrick's loans from Anglo Irish Bank to avoid the financial statements
  • The Irish Life and Permanent transactions in 2008.
  • The alteration of terms for ten key customers
  • Loans to four other key management personnel

Willie McAteer is tried for:

  • Temporarily transferring his loans from Anglo Irish Bank to avoid financial statements
  • The Irish Life and Permanent transactions in 2008.
  • Not declaring a loan in 2008

Peter Fitzpatrick is tried for:

  • Irish Life and Permanent transactions in 2008.

 

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:14 | 1259830 silvertrain
silvertrain's picture

I wonder if it applies to those who keep there pension in Krugerlands?

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 15:28 | 1260164 nmewn
nmewn's picture

;-)

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:30 | 1259831 hugovanderbubble
hugovanderbubble's picture

Middle Classes Destroyed...thanks.

  Uk Financial Institutions will be most affected by Irish Government Debt Haircuts schemes- Haircuts Range goes Between 40-60%- Sell Uk Financials next quarter. Peterssen, Hugo -

 

 Also Short Heavily GBP/EUR and GBP/USD for next 2 quarters,

 

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:15 | 1259834 BrianOFlanagan
BrianOFlanagan's picture

governments absolutely despise savers.  Stealing it through inflation is not enough for them, now they must tax it too.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:22 | 1259848 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

To spend on special interests and the politically connected to obtain faster "growth."

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 23:49 | 1261744 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

If you save, they can't sell you a bond either directly or through your pension fund...

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 15:39 | 1260200 Crack-up Boom
Crack-up Boom's picture

No no - they love savers.  It's so easy to steal from savers!

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:19 | 1259838 Silver Bug
Silver Bug's picture

Wow, they are simply hollowing out that country (as they are many others). They need to simply default on the banksters, and let the healing process begin.

 

http://silverliberationarmy.blogspot.com/

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:54 | 1259991 MonsterBox
MonsterBox's picture

spot on.  let the banksters and gamblers faceplant.  otherwise the sheeple will be paying for this "bailout" for a very long time, with a war thrown in for good measure

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 15:21 | 1260120 Josh Randall
Josh Randall's picture

OFF with their HEADS Ireland - where are my drunken two fisted fightin' Irish of yore at ?

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 15:49 | 1260266 Hacked Economy
Hacked Economy's picture

Here I am!

Irish as ever, and a wee bit peeved.

Tho' I don't get skunked-drunk (I like to know where to successfully throw my punches).

So, now, just point me in th' di-rection of them nasty banksters...

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 16:42 | 1260475 Josh Randall
Josh Randall's picture

Spread the word - give 'em hell Brother! Max Keiser did some epic appearances o Irish TV recently - hopefully it opened some eyes

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:18 | 1259841 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

This taking of 470 million euros per year is a taking of property from pension holders because the government thinks they can get faster growth by subsidizing specific areas of the economy.

When will people learn that central planning is the least efficient growth mechanism?

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:23 | 1259864 lizzy36
lizzy36's picture

Unfortunately "people" don't care if it is not a reality TV show.

The interesting issue here in pensioners tend to show up and vote (being part of a generation that got educated).

This may not end well for the government (fingers crossed).

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 21:56 | 1261337 grunk
grunk's picture

It's the ultimate reality show.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:33 | 1259898 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Never.

Socialist rhetoric is so much more pleasing to the ear, than fiscal responsibility.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 15:11 | 1260056 Agent P
Agent P's picture

In that case, I had better get my ears checked.

Good quote though.  Is it yours?

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 15:35 | 1260193 Catullus
Catullus's picture

Yep. Called it. The capital in the pension is not sitting in cash under a mattress. It's deployed to yield a rate of return. If whatever doesn't yield a high enough rate of return, the capital manager will deploy it to something that does. So if there a venture that needs capital, mixed with labor, the ventures that yield the the most efficient use of both will be used.

Because the government doesn't give a rat's shit about this thing called profit, they can never know what the most efficient deployment of capital is. Stealing from a pension to create jobs that will generate greater tax revenues for the state is just dumb. Take to the streets, Ireland! It's neither temporary or cheap to do this. They'll give you a million excuses why they're never going to stop or why they have to raise it over and over again.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 15:43 | 1260232 bigwavedave
bigwavedave's picture

your missing the bigger picture...

your asking old people in wheelchairs to march (wheel) against young people without jobs. 

who is gonna win that street fight? face it. anyone with a pension lived to high too long and is gonna get fucked for it.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 22:40 | 1261492 Catullus
Catullus's picture

violence is not a bigger picture.  Old people vote and pay into the discounted airline miles club (AARP).  Young people have no jobs, no education, no pension, no savings, no votes, and no voice.  They don't take to the streets.  They just leave.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:23 | 1259853 CreditCrumbs
CreditCrumbs's picture

Vampire squids are getting hungrier!

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:30 | 1259901 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

So am I, and I love calamari!

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:24 | 1259856 pappacass
pappacass's picture

Dya know what, I couldn't be arsed anymore..

The world is fucked, prepare accordingly

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:30 | 1259884 docj
docj's picture

Spot-on, pappa. Spot, freaking, on.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:27 | 1259858 nonclaim
nonclaim's picture

intended to raise about €470 million

why not use the proper verb: lift, steal, loot... be a man and say what you are doing.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 15:03 | 1260019 Joe Davola
Joe Davola's picture

Soon enough it will be an "investment" in the future.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:22 | 1259860 Sutton
Sutton's picture

When I turned in my car off of a lease, i was assessed a fee on "excessive wear and tear" on 2 of the tires.  NY State taxed the wear and tear.

 

Tea Time

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 15:39 | 1260215 thecoloredsky
thecoloredsky's picture

Same thing here:

I have a lease. State issues annual property tax coded as "highway tax." The bill is sent to my car lender, who in turn sends to me to pay. Not only am I paying tax on property I don't own, the State has previously added sales tax ontop of the property tax. Although, I didn't see this last time I paid.

Big ole cup of Tea Time

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:48 | 1259861 treemagnet
treemagnet's picture

Yeah, what was FICA when it was debuted....something like 50/50 at a rate of .45%? 

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 15:42 | 1260211 pods
pods's picture

They like to play a little game called Just the Tip.

pods

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:23 | 1259862 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

 Irish bankers can still live inside the Irish Republic without fear of lynch mobs appearing at their front doors? How very strange!

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:31 | 1259891 Lord Welligton
Lord Welligton's picture

Yeah.

And that includes some bankers who are obviously guilty of accounting fraud.

Still the wheels of Justice grind slowly.

In Ireland it is now nearly 2 and 1/2 years since this accounting fraud became public knowledge. At least 20 people are implicated.

The Garda are still "considering" whether they will make arrests.

There's no corruption here.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 15:44 | 1260226 pappacass
pappacass's picture

Yep and the judge involved with the case lost the plot with them this avo and basically told them to hurry things up or I'll throw the case out.  Long and the short of it is that no-one will hang.  Who says the yanks have a monopoly on corruption?  Everything is going to plan.

On a more important note the population will be ignoring the news again and instead cheering on Jedward in the Eurovision song contest tonight.  Bread and plenty of circuses..  Never fails does it?

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 17:44 | 1260686 Lord Welligton
Lord Welligton's picture

Long Jedward then.

:)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wRCe_4QUrM

Fascist Entertainment Gulag.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 19:52 | 1261031 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

Look Lord Wellington - the game was up when they socialised all the bank losses - this is just one of the mechanisms.

For what its worth I suggested they transfer all the term deposits to the post office and break the link between money and bank balance sheets - I think that is a logical response , but they continue to do this micro management thingy - they just can't help themselves as it gives our executive something to do.

Honestly though I think the fairest socialisation of the costs for the state is that the Troika themselves pay for the Irish executive.

This separation of our /their executive from their running costs is simply inefficient and downright immoral - I am sure we / they can save some money via synergistic cost saving measures between our EU partners and Atlantic best friends - its only fair is it not ?

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 22:29 | 1261454 Lord Welligton
Lord Welligton's picture

the game was up when they socialised all the bank losses

It is of course impossible to disagree with that reality.

For what its worth I suggested they transfer all the term deposits to the post office

Not the Japanese one I hope.

but they continue to do this micro management thingy - they just can't help themselves as it gives our executive something to do.

Not sure I agree.

It is not so much "something to do" as it is "something to take"

Witness the theft of private pensions by Fine Gale and Labour.

These fuckers don't care.

Fianna Fail / Fine Gale / Labour / Green / Sinn Fein / ULA

These fuckers are not "about "something to do".

Their entire purpose in life it to "take".

And they "own" the universities.

They are breeding self-replicating scum.

Just my two worthless euro cents worth.

 

Wed, 05/11/2011 - 06:20 | 1262116 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

@Lord Wellington

I simply think that the problem is simply that the Irish do not own their own debt in pensions or deposits so therefore the money supply is being exported using tax as a mechanism of austerity.

And in the event of another double cross people should also own a shit load of Gold.

 

 

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:23 | 1259865 SilverFiend
SilverFiend's picture

Memo to U.S. pensioners and future retirees:  Get your money out while you still can.  They are coming for it soon.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:44 | 1259962 bigwavedave
bigwavedave's picture

yep.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:59 | 1260010 trav7777
trav7777's picture

at this point it is a balance between the .6% annual "property tax" and the income tax they fuck you with to withdraw it

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 15:04 | 1260026 Joe Davola
Joe Davola's picture

Or (c) Both.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 15:53 | 1260288 Hacked Economy
Hacked Economy's picture

Which is *exactly* why I finally stopped throwing more FRNs into the black hole of my 401(k) - which probably won't be worth jack diddly if hyperinflation kicks in - and have been buying physical instead.

Pre-1965s and SAEs.  Easily buried.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:24 | 1259868 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

 

HERE IT COMES!

Deep in our hearts we KNOW this is where the U.S. is headed.

All those millions upon millions of accounts fretted over daily for their lack of grwoth over ten years as we toil away - banks bailed out - and NOW they will hold it, limit withdrawals, double or treble the taxes, or confiscate it altogether to be replaced by empty promises.

GET YOUR MONEY OUT NOW BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE IF YOU HAVE A CHOICE!

 

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:27 | 1259871 Lord Welligton
Lord Welligton's picture

Outright theft.

Not even a mention of a sunset clause.

Also likely to be unconstitutional.

Pity the funds industry is in pocket of the government.

Maybe some independent Trustee will take up the cudgels.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:28 | 1259872 ForWhomTheTollBuilds
ForWhomTheTollBuilds's picture

There are so many creative ways to default on your obligations.  I look forward to seeing them all!

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:28 | 1259874 Ancona
Ancona's picture

These fucking idiots need to default and get it over with. Let the Eurozone implode and move on with life.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:28 | 1259875 ThirdCoastSurfer
ThirdCoastSurfer's picture

"levy will not apply to (foreign) pension funds" established here for the sole purpose of avoiding taxation. 

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:25 | 1259877 Korrath
Korrath's picture

Is this the shape of things to come?  

 

I've often wondered when some "genius" on the US side would propse - 

"Why don't we just force all federal and state pension funds to invest 80% of their holdings in T-bills?  

Ha!  Just solved about 4 different problems in one shot, now let's order lunch."

 

In short, we're doomed.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:26 | 1259882 Franken_Stein
Franken_Stein's picture

 

Allied Irish Banks and Anglo-Irish Bank


Sean FitzPatrick is tried for:

  • Temporarily transferring his loans from Anglo Irish Bank to Irish Life and Permanent to avoid financial statements
  • more Irish Life and Permanent transactions in 2008.
  • A Willie McAteer loan of 2008

David Drumm is tried for:

  • Temporarily transferring FitzPatrick's loans from Anglo Irish Bank to avoid the financial statements
  • The Irish Life and Permanent transactions in 2008.
  • The alteration of terms for ten key customers
  • Loans to four other key management personnel

Willie McAteer is tried for:

  • Temporarily transferring his loans from Anglo Irish Bank to avoid financial statements
  • The Irish Life and Permanent transactions in 2008.
  • Not declaring a loan in 2008

Peter Fitzpatrick is tried for:

  • Irish Life and Permanent transactions in 2008.
Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:39 | 1259945 Lord Welligton
Lord Welligton's picture

Franken-Stein

You are largely correct.

Just one thing.

Nobody is being tried for anything.

In fact most of the people involved have walked away with hush money and enhanced pensions.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:56 | 1260004 Franken_Stein
Franken_Stein's picture

 

The above text was copied and pasted from Wikipedia.

They deserve the credit for it, not me.

 

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:31 | 1259889 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

Tax me once shame on you, Tax me twice shame on me...

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 15:39 | 1260197 Transitory Anomaly
Transitory Anomaly's picture

"Tax me once shame on you, Tax me twice . . . "

Then I must be a corporate shareholder.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:31 | 1259890 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

History has shown time and time again that after looting the treasury, corrupt governments will go after peoples pensions and savings (should they have any).  Coming soon to the U.S.  This is bullish for black markets for sure! 

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:29 | 1259892 Mercury
Mercury's picture

I'm sure this will be the most temporary wealth confiscation program any government has ever thought up ever.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:29 | 1259893 Franken_Stein
Franken_Stein's picture

 

Silver says:

I aaaaaam the one and only.

Can't take that away from me.

 

(Written by Nik Kershaw, Performed by Chesney Hawkes)

 

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:36 | 1259925 Dick Darlington
Dick Darlington's picture

lol +1

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:30 | 1259894 cxl9
cxl9's picture

Ireland's getting off pretty easy. In America they will eventually just seize the pensions entirely and "invest" them (for your own protection, of course) into U.S. Treasuries. And Americans will welcome this when it happens, since most of them think they'll get something for nothing - the bedrock of the scam of modern democracies.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 20:42 | 1261131 unununium
unununium's picture

In America they will just manipulate the value of the instruments inside the pensions and 401(k)'s.

 

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:30 | 1259895 the not so migh...
the not so mighty maximiza's picture

If it moves tax it!!!

 

With Love

The Bankers

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 22:03 | 1261354 grunk
grunk's picture

If they can tax it, move it.

With contempt,

The rest of us.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:30 | 1259902 Eireann go Brach
Eireann go Brach's picture

Time to behead some politicians in public! With all the Irish Grannies throwing rotten tomatos at them

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:34 | 1259904 earnulf
earnulf's picture

There is no stone left unturned, there is no hiding place left concealed, there is no limit to what they will stoop when they come for your riches.  But like mosquitos, they only want a bit at a time, until all those bites leave you red, scratching and strangely, swooning from a lack of blood.

Pesticides for the pests!

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:36 | 1259921 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

I think PMs are pesticide...

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:51 | 1259978 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Yep, physical PMs and black markets.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:34 | 1259917 Dick Darlington
Dick Darlington's picture

Wow, just wow. These EU cleptocrats have no limits. They steal EVERYTHING from the people to feed the ponzischeme so that bankers can have one more record bonus year. Are the irish people down with this? Would appreciate comments if there's some irish guys around.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:40 | 1259936 css1971
css1971's picture

The Irish aren't what they were.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:34 | 1259919 subscriptionblocker
subscriptionblocker's picture

Soylent green 'em and ship to Chinese pig farmers......

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:39 | 1259927 css1971
css1971's picture

Bonuses for bankers paid from the pockets of pensioners.

That is what the establishment and politicians stand for. Think I'll go long rope.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:42 | 1259952 rockraider3
rockraider3's picture

I don't understand why we don't cut all the BS and just have a global debt accord where everyone's debt is given a giant haircut.  Obviously debtholders are going to feel that pain, and it's unfortunate.  But it seems to me that collectively everyone, including the debt holders, will benefit from this through a much more prosperous period ahead.  Without it, resolution on these matters are going to drag out, perhaps as long as 10 years.  10 years of upheaval, war, recession, inflation/deflation/stagflation, and all the problems that come with this.  Or reach a global debt haircut agreement now, feel some initial pain, but avoid a long drawn out process of resolution and be able to grow and move forward much, much more quickly. 

Nickle and diming penioners for money that won't come close to fixing the problems is just laughable. 

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:54 | 1259984 bigwavedave
bigwavedave's picture

when you where 9 or 10 years old did you never go around selling you older neighbours raffle tickets for prizes that did not exist?.... No? In that case you will never truly understand.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:51 | 1259986 Franken_Stein
Franken_Stein's picture

 

I had the same idea some time ago.

But it makes too much sense in order to become reality.

 

Not with these politicians, not with these bankers.

 

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 15:22 | 1260123 ex VRWC
ex VRWC's picture

That's not a quick fix.  When you give universal debt haircut, you make owing money meaningless.  You break any bond between debtor and creditor.  The result is political pressure on governments to ensure other ways for banks to make money, which results in the schzophrenic economy we have now, where speculators make out and the real economy of goods and services dies.  This describes what I am talking about here, and the trends that reinforce it.

http://willanystand.blogspot.com/2009/11/when-owing-money-means-nothing-and.html

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:48 | 1259979 bigwavedave
bigwavedave's picture

where is the Irish Republican Army when you really need them?

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:55 | 1259994 Iriestx
Iriestx's picture

Until we rise up and start executing politicians and bankers, nothing will change.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 15:22 | 1260126 bigwavedave
bigwavedave's picture

presumably they would be easier targets than english politicians and english bankers. no? so much for the 'real' IRA

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 15:44 | 1260223 Troublehoff
Troublehoff's picture

Northern Ireland?

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:49 | 1259982 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

The mattress is looking better every day.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:55 | 1260005 Shock and Aweful
Shock and Aweful's picture

Unless they are a bunch of docile sheep (like here in the U.S.....this could get pretty ugly.  

 

Now that the banks and their collection agencies (also known as the gov't)  realize that they can steal directly from the masses (without even trying to hide it as something else) They will just keep coming back and back and back to the watering hole until the thing runs completely dry or until the the herd decides to stand up and beat the living shit out of them...wonder which one will happen? hmmmmm

 

 

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 15:01 | 1260025 Franken_Stein
Franken_Stein's picture

 

Things that make you go hmmmmm.

...

 

Hmmmmm.

(Scratching my really nice moustache)

 

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 15:02 | 1260032 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

now i know why there are no more good Irish boxers......bunch of drunk pussies

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 15:34 | 1260178 bigwavedave
bigwavedave's picture

yeah. LOL. like Barry McGuigan.... "ok gov'.... so i fight a texan dude named Cruz in the desert in 40 degrees c and under flood lights.... sounds good. oh.... and here is the signed pension forms you wanted..."

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 15:06 | 1260050 downwiththebanks
downwiththebanks's picture

Hey:  when the banker-gangsters need bailing out, the people just have to step up and foot the bill.  That's rule #1 of Monopoly Finance Capitalism.

Just ask the people of Wisconsin.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 15:09 | 1260063 Au_Ag_CuPbCu
Au_Ag_CuPbCu's picture

Un f*&king believable!  An annual net worth tax might make more sense...tax the high net worth bankster f*cks that stole all of the wealth in the first place!

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 15:33 | 1260177 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

that's just crazy talk.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 23:47 | 1261735 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

transfer it all to trust and you have no net worth. That's been the case for hundreds of years. Problem is that poor people can't afford a trust, so they are the ones who always pay tax.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 15:16 | 1260090 falak pema
falak pema's picture

THIS IS THE SIGN THAT ALL GOVERNMENTS IN THE WEST WILL HAVE ONY ONE REMAINING OPTION : TO TAX YOUR PENSIONS; TO RAPE YOU IN YOUR ONLY REMAINING NEST EGG. 401K....

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 16:20 | 1260371 pazmaker
pazmaker's picture

I stopped contributing 2 yrs ago when I woke up..... however I've got a good amount still there..contemplating removing it but you get raped 40% doing that as well!

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 15:21 | 1260115 dexter_morgan
dexter_morgan's picture

Did Krugman write this? So taxation and government creates a favorable economic climate? Only by less of both does that happen!

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 15:29 | 1260153 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

It takes the breath away to see that much ignorance in a couple of sentences.

Re read that third paragraph again, because these bureaucrats think they are more efficient allocators of investment capital than private investors.

I can prove they are not.

Anybody who understands efficient capital allocation that well could generate huge alpha as a hedge fund manager. Lets take a look at their personal investment portfolios and see how good they are at outguessing the market in terms of capital allocation.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 16:31 | 1260418 Troublehoff
Troublehoff's picture

I'd imagine their personal portfolios have done just fine - it's imposible for these guys to lose. They have the inside knowledge and the power.

 

The only way these guys can lose is if one of their fellow powerbrokers decides it's expedient to thow the wolves a little meat.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 15:22 | 1260128 American idle
American idle's picture

If you had the luck o' the Irish...you would wish you was English instead.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 15:24 | 1260132 fuzed
fuzed's picture

And they cut out the non citizen - pensions. WTF?
Rich cats from outside Ire can still hide their money.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 15:21 | 1260133 Dick Darlington
Dick Darlington's picture

No need to worry, the head of irish genocide is on the central radio telling you "it's all good".

05-10 15:14: Irish finance minister says Irish situation is sustainable
Tue, 05/10/2011 - 15:25 | 1260141 kito
kito's picture

funny that at the time the irish made this announcement, there was a nationwide 2 for 1 guinness special going on at all the pubs...hmmmm

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 15:39 | 1260212 Troublehoff
Troublehoff's picture

Since I got my first job my family have been nagging at me to get a pension.

 

The family are quite amused that instead I choose to buy PM's. My boss is amused that I'm not driving an Audi or BMW and drive the smallest most fuel efficient moms shopping cart I could find. He doesn't understand why I don't want to manage a bunch of underlings or go and give PowerPoint presentations. My mate is amused that I don't have <insert gizmo here> and instead choose to watch a standard definition CRT.

 

All I want to do is try to save enough money to buy myself a little freedom from this fucking treadmill and here are TPTB again trying to fuck responsible savers in the ass. The only person you can really trust is yourself.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 15:51 | 1260258 cxl9
cxl9's picture

The only person you can really trust is yourself.

I don't even trust myself. I've caught me lying to myself too many times.

 

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 15:51 | 1260259 bigwavedave
bigwavedave's picture

well i think your going to make it mr consumer # -1

you should set up a local and get people to join. pay you fees. then you can write a book and collect royalties. or better still get your members to write chapters and collect theirs. before you know it you will be a catholic.

 

 

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 16:40 | 1260464 tao400
tao400's picture

I am going to go buy a BMW. Why? Because I want to spend my money on a good quality product. I don't want dollars or anything they can confiscate. It's gotten that bad.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 17:13 | 1260609 Troublehoff
Troublehoff's picture

Good point..

if you want a good quality product, I'd recomend a (European) Ford... depreciate like stink though :)

Ideally if I could purchase a lifetime supply of diesel now, that would be my purchase.

Any of you traders know how I might go about doing that without taking delivery?

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 18:11 | 1260784 cxl9
cxl9's picture

Ideally if I could purchase a lifetime supply of diesel now, that would be my purchase.

Any of you traders know how I might go about doing that without taking delivery?

http://www.mygallons.com/

Google: Learn it. Use it. Love it.

 

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 19:07 | 1260924 Troublehoff
Troublehoff's picture

That looks brilliant - unfortunately, I live in the UK :(

 

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 16:05 | 1260318 Cone of Uncertainty
Cone of Uncertainty's picture

This is like a little fucking crystal ball.

Americans everywhere are seeing their future.

This is so great!!!

I see my future, I see my future!!!!

This is fucking magic!!

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 16:26 | 1260406 subscriptionblocker
subscriptionblocker's picture

-1 for telling the truth.

 

It's coming. Here. And I'll bet a lot of these "jailables" will still roam free.

 

We'll have our impotence rubbed in our face. Fate of pussies.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 16:36 | 1260458 tao400
tao400's picture

and what is the solution. that's the big question.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 16:20 | 1260381 QQQBall
QQQBall's picture

What fucking jobs? Some very, very slow learners at ZH.  The stolen pension funds will recapitalize the bank, the banks will reduce loan loss reserves due to "improved financial condition" and report increasing profits. The relabeled loan loss reserves will be paid as bonuses to the genius bank executives, who needed to be bailed out. Wash, rine, fucking repeat.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 16:21 | 1260382 QQQBall
QQQBall's picture

What fucking jobs? Some very, very slow learners at ZH.  The stolen pension funds will recapitalize the banks, the banks will reduce loan loss reserves due to "improved financial condition" and report increasing profits. The relabeled loan loss reserves will be paid as bonuses to the genius bank executives, who screwed the pooch in the first place. Wash, rinse, fucking repeat.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 16:30 | 1260414 IdioTsincracY
IdioTsincracY's picture

+1

That's a Service economy for you!

The country has managed to rise beyond its agricultural dependencies and become a modern trade dependant economy...

http://www.economywatch.com/world_economy/ireland/

What a joke!!

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