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Ireland Proposes To Tax Pensions
Ireland just floated another proposal that is sure to be another big hit with the general population:
The various tax reduction and additional expenditure measures which I am announcing today will be funded by way of a temporary levy on funded pension schemes and personal pension plans. I propose that the levy will apply at a rate of 0.6% to the capital value of assets under management in pension funds established in the State.
It will apply for a period of 4 years commencing this year and is intended to raise about €470 million in each of those years. The levy will not apply to pension funds established here and providing services and benefits solely to non-resident employers and members. Further details regarding the proposed application of the levy are set out in the Summary of Initiative Measures.
I am conscious of the concerns of the pensions industry about the impact of a levy in circumstances where the pensions sector, in common with other sectors in our economy and society, is finding the current economic and financial environment very challenging. However, the imposition of the levy is for a relatively short period and its purpose is to improve that environment by providing the means to encourage job creation in areas of our economy most likely to deliver that employment quickly.
The levy is being confined to pension funds because I believe that the alternatives for increases in taxation elsewhere at this time would be more damaging to the economy. I will be glad to consult with the pensions industry on the legislative provisions which will give effect to the levy so as to seek to minimise, where possible, any unnecessary difficulties which this measure may give rise to.
The pension levy represents a very significant contribution by the pensions industry and the many individual savers it represents to our commitment to getting the economy moving again. I am aware that the pensions sector is also concerned, given the temporary levy, about the commitment in our agreement with the EU/IMF to reduce the tax relief on pension contributions starting next year. I will examine this issue in the context of the results of the Comprehensive Review of Expenditure currently being undertaken by the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, and any resulting scope for fiscally neutral changes to the EU/IMF agreement.
While the debate of how much €470 million a year will bring to the economy at the expense of pensioners, as well as just how "relatively short term" this development will be is one thing, this latest scramble to raise funding (in lieu of Ireland's stubborn refusal to hike corporate tax rates... for now), is likely a precursor to what may and likely will happen to other "austere regimes" both in Europe, and soon in the US. We can just see it: soon enough pension funds will become demonized as being the sole beneficiaries of monetary largesse, and as a result will be forced to do their Robin Hood duty of funding various federal, state and local government empty coffers in a comparable taxation method. Ultimately, it presents the Chairman with yet one more reason to inflate risk assets as high as possible, before this "capital raising" process becomes a reality not only in Dublin, but in D.C. as well.
As for the alternative, the proposal of a financial transaction tax.... crickets.
h/t John
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HA HA HA HA AHHA
Consumers are the Krill at the bottom of the food chain,
Without their revenue the whales die.
You're probably thinking of phytoplankton, which krill feed on.
Your metaphor is good, but we do see the same behavior in the natural world, with humans doing things that kill off the phytoplankton, setting us up for long-term failure:
http://www.seakeepers.org/featured-plankton.php
TPOG
Now I understand an old saying that Irishmen are a missing link between a man and a monkey.
"the imposition of the levy is for a relatively short period"
LOL. That's right, and I'll only stick it in a little ways -- just the pink part. So be a good lad and grab your ankles . . .
You know it.
There is no such thing as a temporary tax on anything.
This true, but they will never get me pot of gold.
HAHAHAHAHA...
Only way to get out of debt is to tax the debt.
Actually this is a tax on the Irish equivalents of the 401K / IRA programs.
Basically it boils down to the .gov stealing your retirement account piecemeal under color of law.
I think that's "colour" of law laddie.
Actually the correct word is 'color'...
yeah, right. once it's in, it's in forever.
thanks, Mick. now we'll try it out over here on our sheeple
Reminds me of a recent attempt by our own U.S. Senators to introduce a tax on our 401(k) and IRAs. They were laughed out of Dodge, but determined people looking to take your money always find their way back to try again.
There is no way that any government will default rather than steal pension fund assets. Or leave precious metals investors with their gold either, simply because they were so smart...
.
To right! In the UK our private pensions funds just about match the national debt. As it does in the US. Now, with the furore over public sector pensions, it will be easy to distract the unwashed masses with an assault on the public sector. With the other hand they take private savings and hand over a few coupons for the soup kitchen.
Most people are so dumb they will actually THANK the scum bags for doing it and the sense of schadenfreude will assuage most.
IRELAND WONT TAX CORPORATES BUT THEY WILL PENSIONS!
That was one large leg on the map that got them to their current position, after all. Why change something that's workin' so well, I guess.
You are comparing an income tax with a wealth/property tax, which is not quite on target. The neat and dirty trick is that by taxing the assets, rather than income from the assets, the government is assured a steady stream of money. I wonder if they got the idea from the hedge funds 2+20 fee structure. If so, yet another reason to hate the hedgies.
Correct, an income tax is dependent on these funds making money whereas a direct tax on assets such as this indicates that they know for certain that when the defaults arrive and the value of these funds plummets, they will still take their 'tax'. These funds are not going to make any profits.
The good thing about all of this is that after the collapse and ensuing revolution we will all have a system that protects individuals rights of ownership and prevents governments simply levying any old claim against some one's assets. That is more commonly known as stealing. Income is a different matter...
IRELAND WON'T TAX CORPORATES BUT THEY WILL PENSIONS ! ...........
BINGO !!! throw the bums out / take back our countries .
HA!
longer range. now im thinking of retiring to ireland instead of Canada.
The Emerald Isle has been good for pensioners for a long time Bigwavedave as found out by UK mainstream media back in the summer of 96 http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/retiring-try-a-move-to-ir... Maybe not quite so much now after this latest ruse but there's still many a Molly to keep you feeling alive alive o even after the Guiness.
Just don't tax the whiskey, all hell would break loose...
Don't laugh. That is the first step in confiscation of private assets by the state. Anyone who does not think this can extend to the US and to physical gold is a fool. The state/government will do whatever it damn well wants to do. This to me is beyond scary. They have moved from cutting the value of money/dollar to an outright confiscation.
Anyone who buys gold and silver is a fool, unless you've taken care of the tax issue first.
They will simply demand it from you and you will have no option but to pay.
Why don't they just grab citizens at random by the ankles, lift them up, shake them, and take whatever money falls out of their pockets?
Why dont we just grab bankers, put a rope around their necks and haul them up lamp posts?
Oh my no. You can't tax corporations or bankers. They might stop laundering their money there. Just make the peons pay. If they don't throw them in debtors prison.
I've heard you can be jailed for not paying your mortgage there.
You can, but that would cause a substantial drop in tax revenues in Ireland, as they're all there to take advantage of the low rates.
And if you were to force all countries to have the same tax regulation, you'd effectively land in world government, and there's fuck all chance I'd trust any politician with that kind of power.
OK, but who would continue paying-off the politicians if we snuffed-out all the bankers?
Who cares?
double post
Well you see, we let COMEX handle our hemp reserves, and when we went to take delivery...
pay per view of gangsters (banksters) getting Mayan heart extraction
The Irish gov is doing that before smashing them against the wall.
What is interesting is that the Irish population seems to like it.
they better exectute 20-30% of "non-performing" population for start
I think it's time for them to put down their pints, stop fucking sheep, and get on the ball.
What's that? I've just been informed that it is in fact the Welsh, and not the Irish, who are a bunch of sheep fuckers. Apologies to all parties concerned.
LMFAO ! excellent
Spooz on highs.
How is this news? This has been talked about for months now, of course pensions will be looted by the fat pigs in the banks!
Allied Irish Banks and Anglo-Irish Bank.
In this context Sean FitzPatrick is tried for:
David Drumm is tried for:
Willie McAteer is tried for:
Peter Fitzpatrick is tried for:
I wonder if it applies to those who keep there pension in Krugerlands?
;-)
Middle Classes Destroyed...thanks.
governments absolutely despise savers. Stealing it through inflation is not enough for them, now they must tax it too.
To spend on special interests and the politically connected to obtain faster "growth."
If you save, they can't sell you a bond either directly or through your pension fund...
No no - they love savers. It's so easy to steal from savers!
Wow, they are simply hollowing out that country (as they are many others). They need to simply default on the banksters, and let the healing process begin.
http://silverliberationarmy.blogspot.com/
spot on. let the banksters and gamblers faceplant. otherwise the sheeple will be paying for this "bailout" for a very long time, with a war thrown in for good measure
OFF with their HEADS Ireland - where are my drunken two fisted fightin' Irish of yore at ?
Here I am!
Irish as ever, and a wee bit peeved.
Tho' I don't get skunked-drunk (I like to know where to successfully throw my punches).
So, now, just point me in th' di-rection of them nasty banksters...
Spread the word - give 'em hell Brother! Max Keiser did some epic appearances o Irish TV recently - hopefully it opened some eyes
This taking of 470 million euros per year is a taking of property from pension holders because the government thinks they can get faster growth by subsidizing specific areas of the economy.
When will people learn that central planning is the least efficient growth mechanism?
Unfortunately "people" don't care if it is not a reality TV show.
The interesting issue here in pensioners tend to show up and vote (being part of a generation that got educated).
This may not end well for the government (fingers crossed).
It's the ultimate reality show.
Never.
Socialist rhetoric is so much more pleasing to the ear, than fiscal responsibility.
In that case, I had better get my ears checked.
Good quote though. Is it yours?
Yep. Called it. The capital in the pension is not sitting in cash under a mattress. It's deployed to yield a rate of return. If whatever doesn't yield a high enough rate of return, the capital manager will deploy it to something that does. So if there a venture that needs capital, mixed with labor, the ventures that yield the the most efficient use of both will be used.
Because the government doesn't give a rat's shit about this thing called profit, they can never know what the most efficient deployment of capital is. Stealing from a pension to create jobs that will generate greater tax revenues for the state is just dumb. Take to the streets, Ireland! It's neither temporary or cheap to do this. They'll give you a million excuses why they're never going to stop or why they have to raise it over and over again.
your missing the bigger picture...
your asking old people in wheelchairs to march (wheel) against young people without jobs.
who is gonna win that street fight? face it. anyone with a pension lived to high too long and is gonna get fucked for it.
violence is not a bigger picture. Old people vote and pay into the discounted airline miles club (AARP). Young people have no jobs, no education, no pension, no savings, no votes, and no voice. They don't take to the streets. They just leave.
Vampire squids are getting hungrier!
So am I, and I love calamari!
Dya know what, I couldn't be arsed anymore..
The world is fucked, prepare accordingly
Spot-on, pappa. Spot, freaking, on.
why not use the proper verb: lift, steal, loot... be a man and say what you are doing.
Soon enough it will be an "investment" in the future.
When I turned in my car off of a lease, i was assessed a fee on "excessive wear and tear" on 2 of the tires. NY State taxed the wear and tear.
Tea Time
Same thing here:
I have a lease. State issues annual property tax coded as "highway tax." The bill is sent to my car lender, who in turn sends to me to pay. Not only am I paying tax on property I don't own, the State has previously added sales tax ontop of the property tax. Although, I didn't see this last time I paid.
Big ole cup of Tea Time
Yeah, what was FICA when it was debuted....something like 50/50 at a rate of .45%?
They like to play a little game called Just the Tip.
pods
Irish bankers can still live inside the Irish Republic without fear of lynch mobs appearing at their front doors? How very strange!
Yeah.
And that includes some bankers who are obviously guilty of accounting fraud.
Still the wheels of Justice grind slowly.
In Ireland it is now nearly 2 and 1/2 years since this accounting fraud became public knowledge. At least 20 people are implicated.
The Garda are still "considering" whether they will make arrests.
There's no corruption here.
Yep and the judge involved with the case lost the plot with them this avo and basically told them to hurry things up or I'll throw the case out. Long and the short of it is that no-one will hang. Who says the yanks have a monopoly on corruption? Everything is going to plan.
On a more important note the population will be ignoring the news again and instead cheering on Jedward in the Eurovision song contest tonight. Bread and plenty of circuses.. Never fails does it?
Long Jedward then.
:)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wRCe_4QUrM
Fascist Entertainment Gulag.
Look Lord Wellington - the game was up when they socialised all the bank losses - this is just one of the mechanisms.
For what its worth I suggested they transfer all the term deposits to the post office and break the link between money and bank balance sheets - I think that is a logical response , but they continue to do this micro management thingy - they just can't help themselves as it gives our executive something to do.
Honestly though I think the fairest socialisation of the costs for the state is that the Troika themselves pay for the Irish executive.
This separation of our /their executive from their running costs is simply inefficient and downright immoral - I am sure we / they can save some money via synergistic cost saving measures between our EU partners and Atlantic best friends - its only fair is it not ?
It is of course impossible to disagree with that reality.
Not the Japanese one I hope.
Not sure I agree.
It is not so much "something to do" as it is "something to take"
Witness the theft of private pensions by Fine Gale and Labour.
These fuckers don't care.
Fianna Fail / Fine Gale / Labour / Green / Sinn Fein / ULA
These fuckers are not "about "something to do".
Their entire purpose in life it to "take".
And they "own" the universities.
They are breeding self-replicating scum.
Just my two worthless euro cents worth.
@Lord Wellington
I simply think that the problem is simply that the Irish do not own their own debt in pensions or deposits so therefore the money supply is being exported using tax as a mechanism of austerity.
And in the event of another double cross people should also own a shit load of Gold.
Memo to U.S. pensioners and future retirees: Get your money out while you still can. They are coming for it soon.
yep.
at this point it is a balance between the .6% annual "property tax" and the income tax they fuck you with to withdraw it
Or (c) Both.
Which is *exactly* why I finally stopped throwing more FRNs into the black hole of my 401(k) - which probably won't be worth jack diddly if hyperinflation kicks in - and have been buying physical instead.
Pre-1965s and SAEs. Easily buried.
HERE IT COMES!
Deep in our hearts we KNOW this is where the U.S. is headed.
All those millions upon millions of accounts fretted over daily for their lack of grwoth over ten years as we toil away - banks bailed out - and NOW they will hold it, limit withdrawals, double or treble the taxes, or confiscate it altogether to be replaced by empty promises.
GET YOUR MONEY OUT NOW BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE IF YOU HAVE A CHOICE!
Outright theft.
Not even a mention of a sunset clause.
Also likely to be unconstitutional.
Pity the funds industry is in pocket of the government.
Maybe some independent Trustee will take up the cudgels.
There are so many creative ways to default on your obligations. I look forward to seeing them all!
These fucking idiots need to default and get it over with. Let the Eurozone implode and move on with life.
"levy will not apply to (foreign) pension funds" established here for the sole purpose of avoiding taxation.
Is this the shape of things to come?
I've often wondered when some "genius" on the US side would propse -
"Why don't we just force all federal and state pension funds to invest 80% of their holdings in T-bills?
Ha! Just solved about 4 different problems in one shot, now let's order lunch."
In short, we're doomed.
Allied Irish Banks and Anglo-Irish Bank
Sean FitzPatrick is tried for:
David Drumm is tried for:
Willie McAteer is tried for:
Peter Fitzpatrick is tried for:
Franken-Stein
You are largely correct.
Just one thing.
Nobody is being tried for anything.
In fact most of the people involved have walked away with hush money and enhanced pensions.
The above text was copied and pasted from Wikipedia.
They deserve the credit for it, not me.
Tax me once shame on you, Tax me twice shame on me...
"Tax me once shame on you, Tax me twice . . . "
Then I must be a corporate shareholder.
History has shown time and time again that after looting the treasury, corrupt governments will go after peoples pensions and savings (should they have any). Coming soon to the U.S. This is bullish for black markets for sure!
I'm sure this will be the most temporary wealth confiscation program any government has ever thought up ever.
Silver says:
I aaaaaam the one and only.
Can't take that away from me.
(Written by Nik Kershaw, Performed by Chesney Hawkes)
lol +1
Ireland's getting off pretty easy. In America they will eventually just seize the pensions entirely and "invest" them (for your own protection, of course) into U.S. Treasuries. And Americans will welcome this when it happens, since most of them think they'll get something for nothing - the bedrock of the scam of modern democracies.
In America they will just manipulate the value of the instruments inside the pensions and 401(k)'s.
If it moves tax it!!!
With Love
The Bankers
If they can tax it, move it.
With contempt,
The rest of us.
Time to behead some politicians in public! With all the Irish Grannies throwing rotten tomatos at them
There is no stone left unturned, there is no hiding place left concealed, there is no limit to what they will stoop when they come for your riches. But like mosquitos, they only want a bit at a time, until all those bites leave you red, scratching and strangely, swooning from a lack of blood.
Pesticides for the pests!
I think PMs are pesticide...
Yep, physical PMs and black markets.
Wow, just wow. These EU cleptocrats have no limits. They steal EVERYTHING from the people to feed the ponzischeme so that bankers can have one more record bonus year. Are the irish people down with this? Would appreciate comments if there's some irish guys around.
The Irish aren't what they were.
Soylent green 'em and ship to Chinese pig farmers......
Bonuses for bankers paid from the pockets of pensioners.
That is what the establishment and politicians stand for. Think I'll go long rope.
I don't understand why we don't cut all the BS and just have a global debt accord where everyone's debt is given a giant haircut. Obviously debtholders are going to feel that pain, and it's unfortunate. But it seems to me that collectively everyone, including the debt holders, will benefit from this through a much more prosperous period ahead. Without it, resolution on these matters are going to drag out, perhaps as long as 10 years. 10 years of upheaval, war, recession, inflation/deflation/stagflation, and all the problems that come with this. Or reach a global debt haircut agreement now, feel some initial pain, but avoid a long drawn out process of resolution and be able to grow and move forward much, much more quickly.
Nickle and diming penioners for money that won't come close to fixing the problems is just laughable.
when you where 9 or 10 years old did you never go around selling you older neighbours raffle tickets for prizes that did not exist?.... No? In that case you will never truly understand.
I had the same idea some time ago.
But it makes too much sense in order to become reality.
Not with these politicians, not with these bankers.
That's not a quick fix. When you give universal debt haircut, you make owing money meaningless. You break any bond between debtor and creditor. The result is political pressure on governments to ensure other ways for banks to make money, which results in the schzophrenic economy we have now, where speculators make out and the real economy of goods and services dies. This describes what I am talking about here, and the trends that reinforce it.
http://willanystand.blogspot.com/2009/11/when-owing-money-means-nothing-and.html
where is the Irish Republican Army when you really need them?
Until we rise up and start executing politicians and bankers, nothing will change.
presumably they would be easier targets than english politicians and english bankers. no? so much for the 'real' IRA
Northern Ireland?
The mattress is looking better every day.
Unless they are a bunch of docile sheep (like here in the U.S.....this could get pretty ugly.
Now that the banks and their collection agencies (also known as the gov't) realize that they can steal directly from the masses (without even trying to hide it as something else) They will just keep coming back and back and back to the watering hole until the thing runs completely dry or until the the herd decides to stand up and beat the living shit out of them...wonder which one will happen? hmmmmm
Things that make you go hmmmmm.
...
Hmmmmm.
(Scratching my really nice moustache)
now i know why there are no more good Irish boxers......bunch of drunk pussies
yeah. LOL. like Barry McGuigan.... "ok gov'.... so i fight a texan dude named Cruz in the desert in 40 degrees c and under flood lights.... sounds good. oh.... and here is the signed pension forms you wanted..."
Hey: when the banker-gangsters need bailing out, the people just have to step up and foot the bill. That's rule #1 of Monopoly Finance Capitalism.
Just ask the people of Wisconsin.
Un f*&king believable! An annual net worth tax might make more sense...tax the high net worth bankster f*cks that stole all of the wealth in the first place!
that's just crazy talk.
transfer it all to trust and you have no net worth. That's been the case for hundreds of years. Problem is that poor people can't afford a trust, so they are the ones who always pay tax.
THIS IS THE SIGN THAT ALL GOVERNMENTS IN THE WEST WILL HAVE ONY ONE REMAINING OPTION : TO TAX YOUR PENSIONS; TO RAPE YOU IN YOUR ONLY REMAINING NEST EGG. 401K....
I stopped contributing 2 yrs ago when I woke up..... however I've got a good amount still there..contemplating removing it but you get raped 40% doing that as well!
Did Krugman write this? So taxation and government creates a favorable economic climate? Only by less of both does that happen!
It takes the breath away to see that much ignorance in a couple of sentences.
Re read that third paragraph again, because these bureaucrats think they are more efficient allocators of investment capital than private investors.
I can prove they are not.
Anybody who understands efficient capital allocation that well could generate huge alpha as a hedge fund manager. Lets take a look at their personal investment portfolios and see how good they are at outguessing the market in terms of capital allocation.
I'd imagine their personal portfolios have done just fine - it's imposible for these guys to lose. They have the inside knowledge and the power.
The only way these guys can lose is if one of their fellow powerbrokers decides it's expedient to thow the wolves a little meat.
If you had the luck o' the Irish...you would wish you was English instead.
And they cut out the non citizen - pensions. WTF?
Rich cats from outside Ire can still hide their money.
No need to worry, the head of irish genocide is on the central radio telling you "it's all good".
05-10 15:14: Irish finance minister says Irish situation is sustainablefunny that at the time the irish made this announcement, there was a nationwide 2 for 1 guinness special going on at all the pubs...hmmmm
Since I got my first job my family have been nagging at me to get a pension.
The family are quite amused that instead I choose to buy PM's. My boss is amused that I'm not driving an Audi or BMW and drive the smallest most fuel efficient moms shopping cart I could find. He doesn't understand why I don't want to manage a bunch of underlings or go and give PowerPoint presentations. My mate is amused that I don't have <insert gizmo here> and instead choose to watch a standard definition CRT.
All I want to do is try to save enough money to buy myself a little freedom from this fucking treadmill and here are TPTB again trying to fuck responsible savers in the ass. The only person you can really trust is yourself.
I don't even trust myself. I've caught me lying to myself too many times.
well i think your going to make it mr consumer # -1
you should set up a local and get people to join. pay you fees. then you can write a book and collect royalties. or better still get your members to write chapters and collect theirs. before you know it you will be a catholic.
I am going to go buy a BMW. Why? Because I want to spend my money on a good quality product. I don't want dollars or anything they can confiscate. It's gotten that bad.
Good point..
if you want a good quality product, I'd recomend a (European) Ford... depreciate like stink though :)
Ideally if I could purchase a lifetime supply of diesel now, that would be my purchase.
Any of you traders know how I might go about doing that without taking delivery?
http://www.mygallons.com/
Google: Learn it. Use it. Love it.
That looks brilliant - unfortunately, I live in the UK :(
This is like a little fucking crystal ball.
Americans everywhere are seeing their future.
This is so great!!!
I see my future, I see my future!!!!
This is fucking magic!!
-1 for telling the truth.
It's coming. Here. And I'll bet a lot of these "jailables" will still roam free.
We'll have our impotence rubbed in our face. Fate of pussies.
and what is the solution. that's the big question.
What fucking jobs? Some very, very slow learners at ZH. The stolen pension funds will recapitalize the bank, the banks will reduce loan loss reserves due to "improved financial condition" and report increasing profits. The relabeled loan loss reserves will be paid as bonuses to the genius bank executives, who needed to be bailed out. Wash, rine, fucking repeat.
What fucking jobs? Some very, very slow learners at ZH. The stolen pension funds will recapitalize the banks, the banks will reduce loan loss reserves due to "improved financial condition" and report increasing profits. The relabeled loan loss reserves will be paid as bonuses to the genius bank executives, who screwed the pooch in the first place. Wash, rinse, fucking repeat.
+1
That's a Service economy for you!
What a joke!!