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Ireland Sells Out Its People To UK, Germany Bankers, Will Apply For Rescue Tonight
And so the can has been kicked down the road one more time as Ireland's Brian Lenihan has just sold out his country to the IMF, the ECB and the Fed for a few extra years of puppet control. RTE reports
that EU Finance Ministers are due to hold a conference call later this
evening during which Ireland is expected to make a formal request for a
financial rescue package. What is not discussed is how the Irish people,
now likely furious at being manipulated over a lost cause will express
their anger over being the latest sheep used to bail out Europe's ever
more insolvent banking system. They can at least sleep soundly, that
they won't be the last. After today's rescue of Ireland, the vigilantes
will focus their undivided attention on Portugal and Spain - perhaps
these two countries will be a little less timid when it comes to
rescuing Germany's banking oligarchy.
From RTE:
EU Finance Ministers are due to hold a conference call later this evening during which Ireland is expected to make a formal request for a financial rescue package.
An EU source said the request would be approved during the call.
It follows confirmation by Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan that he would be recommending to the Cabinet this afternoon that an application be made to the European Union and the International Monetary Fund.
Speaking on RTÉ's This Week, Mr Lenihan said he will propose the application to this afternoon's meeting of the Cabinet.
The Minister confirmed that discussions with the agencies had concluded yesterday evening.
Ireland will now be formally applying for a rescue programme and formal negotiations will begin.
He confirmed that the amount of money involved amounted to 'tens of billions' of euros but denied suggestions it would be as much as €70 or €80bn.
Also, remember Paulson's bazooka dud? It's baaack.
He suggested most of the money would be used to cover the Government
deficit for the next few years, while most of the money assigned to the
banks would be from what he called a 'demonstration of firepower' that
would only be drawn down if required.
Lenihan seems to realize that allegations of his treacherous nature are about to kick into high gear, accompanied by violent demonstrations, riots and strikes.
The Minister said he had not misled the country over the past week nor did any of his Cabinet colleagues intend to mislead people.
He said it would the height of irresponsibility to have a General Election now, and that the priorities for the country were having the four-year plan and Budget in place.
Mr Lenihan said no concrete figure had been arrived at and that figure would be the subject of negotiations.
Of course it would be "highly irresponsible" to hold an election just after the Minister of Finance has been exposed to be the latest puppet in the global banker arsenal. After all, the people may actually let him know how they feel about betrayal.
One thing that apparently was not discusses was the imminent austerity that would grip the country far over and above what the country would do on its own theatrical ways. After all, Ireland has just ceded complete sovereign control over to the tyrranical trio of Jean Claude Trichet, Dominique Strauss-Khan and Ben Bernanke. Welcome to the club.
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Lo siento. No jobs here.
It is very interesting to observe the present pan-European globalization trend when an individual country elite overwhelmingly cares only about its own position and privileges outside its own country and, at the same time, has very little respect or concern about their own countrymen welfare. Pan-European ideology totally overwhelmed common people well-being.
This situation very much reminds the historical situation in Russia just before the WWI.
So ... now they are not those bastards who spent beyond their means and built up debt levels that are not servicable?
The Irish people are now 'sold out' because german taxpayers are forced to bail out Irish debt, which the Irish people have previously lent and spent?
Please, pretty please, would someone please 'sell me out' as well and bail out my debt?? :-)
Also, ZH is nothing if masterfully inconsistent intellectually when we compare the Irish coverage to the Greek coverage a year ago: then the situation in Greece was portrayed as excessive spending coupled with the poor core EU countries having to bail out Greece.
Wow!
The greeks have astoundingly inefficient tax collection, to the extent that the term should probably be put in quotes to adequately represent it. They have ridiculously generous terms for beginning retirement. They've outrageously lied about their government's fiscal standing over and over again. The structure of the greek government is a failure.
The irish have reasonable tax collection and sincerely adopted austerity measures to ensure that their spending was also reasonable. They were the poster boys for responsible austerity. The irish government is fine. The problem is that they stupidly guaranteed the debts of their banks, which should have been taken over and restructured.
The two situations are quite different. One involved an insolvent government everything about which, from tax collection to its spending was a fraud. The other involves a nation that was fairly well run but whose banks have been killed by the bursting of a real estate bubble. The former is a hopelessly irresponsible liarocracy. The latter is a nation that simply should have taken over its banks.
Oh, you mean they should have done what Iceland has done? What a brilliant suggestion ... :-)
Seriously, had they not guaranteed deposits in late 2008 when every other european country was racing to guarantee deposits, Ireland would have been a spectacular bank run and failure right in 2008, and would have needed an even bigger bail-out on the order of magnitude of their external debt: 1-2 trillion dollars ...
Also, I'd not call Ireland 'healthy' by any measure - it ended up not being able to pay its own debt black and white, right?
It's not like germans have gone into Ireland, have borrowed there, spent it and left the bill for Ireland, right? That debt was created and spent by the Irish people, directly or indirectly. Now the rest of the EU is bailing them out.
The mistake of Ireland was that it did not create a safety cushion in prosperous years, so it was hit in the groin by the (largely external) 2008 financial crisis. The other mistake was that it started cutting spending instead of trying to out-grow their debt.
That Ireland had/has a disproportionately large and over-leveraged banking sector, partly fueled by tax evading US corporations who use the tax loopholes of Ireland (to the detriment of US, german and french taxpayers) probably did not help either.
Some real economic activity with quality local production capacity (like Germany has) would be far more recession-proof.
So Ireland has turned from conservative low-tax low-regulation musterchild into a bailout nightmare. What a difference two short years of reality make!
Btw., I agree with you regarding Greece - I just think that something similar played in Ireland as well (just there the tax evasion was done by corporations, not individuals), with fewer outrageous excesses but on a grander scale. Too much low-tax no-government cool-aid and the 'Celtic Tiger' went poof with no financial cushion left but the rest of Europe.
Well said.
Yes. Blame the people, the herd, the sheep, for doing exactly as expected. But lay zero accountability onto that small handful, literally a dozen or so, who are in a position of authority and more than eager to be bribed.
Do you blame an obese child if the mother feeds it a diet of sugar and fat.
Well said:
Here is what Ireland should do: default, default, default.
Roll out the Punt and start over.
Let the UK, French and German banks fail.
"Take less pain now, than eternal pain later."
So you are suggesting that they should default like Iceland did, and let themselves be essentially bombed back into the economic stone ages?
Good luck with that ...
Well, let's be fair about this. You posit that the pain now will be absolutely intolerable. Okay, but what will the pain be from your alternative? Will they all be ruined just the same?
I'm not positing anything. I'm saying that the suggested "simple" solution of default is not so simple at all, as the example of Iceland has shown it.
So the whole posturing here on ZH that the Irish people have been 'sold out' is false. They have debt - it is money the Irish have spent - they followed bad advice via their low-tax low-regulation economic policy, they are now out of national reserves and yes now they are in an even worse situation.
There is no easy advice there. I'd suggest them to not listen to the same stupid people who got you into this mess (more austerity, anyone?).
Icelanders aren't starving in the streets, so they are hardly in the "economic stone ages".
If bailing out bankers is modern, then Oog want be caveman.
They aren't in the streets starving, instead they staged the biggest mass protests in Iceland's history, they are suffering an unemployment rate rise 4x, and they have switched government once or twice already.
Does not give me the impression of happiness.
And note that Iceland has vast natural resources (on a per capita basis) on which it can base future growth, once the dust settles. It is also an isolated spot to begin with and being isolated means they have no deep structural problems from being isolated some more.
Consider Ireland: no significant natural resources (the brits have cut off the oil-rich northern parts smartly) and an economy that is based on integration not on isolation - plus baseline unemployment that is higher than that of Iceland's already. Defaulting would have much more severe consequences.
So the 'simple' solution of Ireland defaulting is not so simple after all.
yes, better that the roads, the oil reserves, Air Lingus, and the national pensions should go to the bankers in exchange for their jew confetti in exchange for a few more years of kicking the can.
Just like how Chicago sold the effing parking meters. I mean, wtf did the average Chicagoan do to deserve this? The "representatives" freaking SELL the assets of the People?? For what, to balance THIS year's budget?
And where did all the spending go? Did it make the little people rich? Are they REALLY responsible? Or was it to build shit nobody needed, crony contracts, bribes, waste, fraud, dead relatives collecting paychecks in bloated administrative workforces...
You're absolutely right, all this didn't make the little people in Ireland richer. But it did make the Irish elites (corporocracy and corrupt politicians) much much richer. They were the ones who pushed for all these nonsensical policies, lowering the corporate tax rate to the lowest possible so as to attract foreign capital (German, British banks) and become a tool of these mega corporations to avoid paying taxes in their homeland via a series of transfer pricing mechanisms..
Because Irish financial institutions didn't just invest in Irish real estate : with 2.5 trillion in foreign assets and 2.6 in foreign liabilities which dwarfs the Irish real estate market (a couple of hundred billion Euros) they became a low tax haven for european wide real estate investment.
Sure, the German and British banks are to blame. But the Irish elites are the prime responsible for this mess. Noone forced them to turn their country into a european real estate speculating entity and tax haven for the big banking cartels.
And I completely agree with More Critical T's overall assessment.
Exactly. This is the game the IMF and other banks play.
And said Irish elites will also benefit from a further Irish-taxpayer-funded bailout of their investments in the Irish banks. Karl Otto Pöhl explained the game back in May. This is a reason to restructure the Irish bank debt, not to rescue it further with public money.
Pohl makes an excellent argument for Greece defaulting or restructuring their debt and leaving the EU. Common sense IMO.
Let me try to answer your questions
Do you blame an obese child if the mother feeds it a diet of sugar and fat? The answer is YES. A rotten apple falls near the rotten tree. They are all rotten and deserve their miserable destiny.
As for hillary clinton, in my book, she is the third biggest scumbag and a liar in America just after Obama and her husband
Don't forget Greenspan. Or Bush, and his cadre, for that matter.
There are always two sides responsible for a failed relationship. There are
Since both sides are responsible for the present lender/borrowing catastrophe, the both sides must to pay for their greed and stupidity as well as to find a mutually acceptable solution. After all, German banksters can always foreclose on the real estate they put stupidly money in.
In a case of Ireland, Irish people must to pay for everything and German banksters are getting bailouts? No, it is not a fair and/or honest way to conduct business!
Granted, Irish people elected the corrupt and stupid government (just look at a picture of its PM) that decided to guaranty all bank deposits. WOW!
Well, to be fair you need to be aware of the historic context. In late 2008 every other european country was racing to reassure depositors that they are guaranteeing deposits. Germany, UK, France, Italy - everyone, you name it.
Had Ireland decided back then to not do that, had they decided to go the route of Iceland, they'd have faced Iceland's fate: the mother of all bank runs on the order of magnitude of 1-2 trillion dollars, and an economic isolation (and kicking out of the eurozone) that would have brought them back into the economic stone ages.
The Irish government, I think rightfully, thought that they had no other alternative. In hindsight, a $100 billion bailout today is still cheaper - especially as it's taxpayers of Germany and France who are paying for Irish debt ... (out of self interest, of course - their institutions are deeply present in Ireland.)
Regardless of what they do, the Pan-European socialist ponzi paradise will collapse. It is just matter of time.
It is just like plugging holes in a poorly designed and poorly built leaking dam.
Well, as an economic block the EU is certainly productive and its biggest economies are producing surpluses (i.e. can be financed forever even under most restrictive gold standard type dark-ages economics). There is nothing Ponzi about Germany or about northern European countries - they are massively productive.
The only question is whether core EU countries continue to be willing to bail out the over-leveraged debt of the EU periphery. Their politicians might go for that, as that is the path of least resistance, but their electorate might eventually stop them. That effect remains to be seen.
These things should always be fair both ways. In that if there are no rules regarding the lending of money there should be NO RULES regarding it being paid back. The banks that are shoveling the money out hand over fist know there are no rules on their lending hence they should expect NO RULES on it being paid back. It's only fair right?
What do you mean there are no rules on the lending of money and no rules on paying it back?
This has always been the same rule for mortgages:
creditor lends money to debtor against collateral (the house). If debtor can't pay back the loan, creditor keeps collateral.
It is a geopolitical issue for Germany, France, etc. For their economies, they need temporary on-demand immigrants to do dirty jobs but instead of permanent Muslims they would rather prefer in & out Irish or Spanish immigrants.
Presently, a major geopolitical realignment takes place. Unfortunately for the USA, G.W. Bush, Obama, Clinton, and "friends of Israel" guiding our foreign and domestic agendas & policies at this junction.
To be honest, while immigrants play an important role in Germany's economy, it's not like there are no germans willing to do those jobs.
Also, while immigrants doing cheap jobs is an economic benefit, immigrants using social benefits is a drag on the economy. It's probably still a net positive effect, but not a very clear one.
Also, there are EU countries with very few immigrants (Finland - it's way too cold), and they have no productivity problems at all - and all jobs are being filled.
Say what you will about the ZH coverage of each country........The facts still remain the same---the elites in both countries sold out their taxpayer in order to benefit themselves. We are in the midst of the greatest consolidation of power that the world has ever seen.
It is only inconsistent if you do not apply the appropriate intellectual framework.
The proper intellectual framework to apply is gang mentality. This gives a consistent treatment of data.
This site is populated mainly by people from the anglocore gang.
While being vastly different from the anglocore in terms of virtues, the Irishcore gang is still closer to the anglo gang than the Greek. This by an ocean. Not even sure that Greeks are white people...
Gangs like to censor similar behaviours displayed by other gangs. Greeks are censored in their behaviour, not because of their behaviour but because they are Greek.
While Irish are not censored in their behaviour because they are a closer gang. Especially in the context of the EU, where their new allegiance can be interpretated as them moving out of their old colonial master to some shared colonial master partnership.
That is gang mentality. And intellectually consistent.
For people who operate outside the gang mentality framework, the Irish reaction and treatment is not a surprise. The Irish want to be bailed out but they want to be at the best terms. They simply negociated the best terms.
The reality is that everyone in the western world will accept the bailout, but this similar behaviour will be interpretated differently.
The kind of proud last stand for sovereignty the Irish were supposed to deliver is to be found in some third world shit holes. In the gang mentality though, this is not a proud stand to forge or maintain sovereignty, this is because the third worlders are retarded and hateful to the benevolent West.
Bottom line: this site is consistent as soon as you use the correct framework: the gang mentality.
bailing out to gain more control is easy. just print money and lend it as expected.
before all of this, it is important to create a debt-based monetary system and perpetuate a major bond market to support a ponzi scheme welfare state. once the collapse ensues, then more power can be consolidated and indigenous Irish people can be exterminated for their property.
simple.
Irish cunts
I kind of feel sorry for the Irish.
They didn't want this to happen.
you think that because it happens in another country far far away that's it all okay and funny.
And if our governments that don't listen to the common people mess thing up even more the same will happen all over the western world.
But that's where the proof is that people like you are to stupid to enjoy the fruits of freedom.
The Irish have been so stupid to give away the right to print.
In the long run printing will not save us, but being dependent seems to inflict more pain in the short run.
That's like giving a alcoholic the key to the liquid cabinet.
Sure it's fun for the first few times because it's fun to be arround somebody who drinks.
But once he starts drinking to much and become dependent on it, it becomes something else.
And how many alcoholics call themselves in the beginning a alcoholic?
NONE!
But there goes the liver!
That's like giving a alcoholic the key to the liquid cabinet.
Sure it's fun for the first few times because it's fun to be arround somebody who drinks.
But once he starts drinking to much and become dependent on it, it becomes something else.
And how many alcoholics call themselves in the beginning a alcoholic?
NONE!
But there goes the liver!
It happens to all countries. The people dont want it, but the politicos pass it anyway. Business as usuall here in the US. If anyone here thinks the new republicans are different from the old, just watch the teary eyed plea to pass TARP by the future speaker of the house.
God save the Queen, huh?
Overnight Futures= Moonshoot
PM's epic parabolic move
Gold +55
Silver +2.25
Palladium +48
Platinum +60
from your fingertips to my ears!
even with options expiry right around the corner?
yeah, i was hoping silver prices would fall a little further...
what will happen to the EUR/USD ? up or down on this news???
eur/usd up 70 pips on open 1.3740
CCE - Silver Price: I think you misplaced the decimal point. That should read +22.5,
shouldn't it?
the ? is how much silver will a loaf of bread buy?
all things equal i would think this development would strenghten the dollar...i would think that would be a headwind to the PM's
Europeans and asians buy PM's, too. If I were an irishman or german or frenchman or . . . I'd see what was happening to my currency and leap for some PM's.
So, you say that this might make the dollar temporarily stronger and think that would be bad for PM's. But americans are far from the only market for PM's.
Where does one get this data? I was not aware that futures were traded over the weekend.
Or is this speculation about what will happen once the exchanges open this afternoon?
just speculation.
I don't know if they're just German... if Ireland weren't to take the bailout, British banks would be in dire straits. One would imagine quite a considerable amount of the pressure applied came from 'ole Blighty.
Having said that, I think its crazy anyone can even question whether it'll be inflation or deflation given these developments; no-one is stopping the central banks printing and distributing, which so obviously will be the solution as well when Portugal and eventually Spain show signs of collapsing.
You forget that printed money replaces money destroyed by a decline in housing price and consequent defaulted mortgage.
I know there is perpetual debate about when money is created and if a mortgage creates money (it certainly creates the closing costs), but the point here is that "printing" is how money has been created for 100 years. When it is printed to replace destroyed money, it's not clearly dilutive.
Just as the FRB couldn't control the huge inflow of money which fueled the housing bubble, they won't be able to control the huge inflow of cash from the bailouts. We already see across-the-board rises in food, transportation, health, education, clothes, fuel... if you think the printing of another 120bn Euros will work to drive down prices, then invest accordingly.
I'll keep my PM's however.
clearly the absence of deflation (decrease in currency supply) is a practical similarity to inflation (increase in currency supply).
money is absolutely not created by humans, it is only dug out of the ground.
money is a representation of labor; and therefore atp expenditure, which moves ugly rocks out of the way for pretty ones.
until joe 6-pack gets that currency is a promise to deliver money this game will siphon more purchasing power to fewer hands. maybe when the mathematic end arrives, and one dude has all the money in the world, people will ask themselves... how the fuck did we get here?
but it will have all been legal.
sanctioned by the government, yes. "legal"? there is a "dual mandate"--and according to your logic "one is undermining the other." in short "two men say they're Jesus...one of them must be wrong...
"how the fuck did we get here?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1wg1DNHbNU
the 'letter' of the law is being used to circumvent a Constitutional Republic.
mistakes? of course, there will be a few. even silver-spooned ivy league twats get it wrong every thousand times in a while. just as long as you're not in the wrong group of livestock, then its no big deal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor
why even criticize our ruling elite? Senator Rockefeller says there is no debate, and folks should just 'trust their government'. we should all just get back on the hampster wheel, pay our taxes, and shut up!
http://hotair.com/archives/2010/11/18/sen-rockefeller-fcc-should-shut-down-fox-news-and-msnbc/
Of course, when you control national newspapers and mainstream television, such dissention in cable TV and the internet cannot be tolerated. This subversion cannot go unchecked!! Central command must get this free flow of information under control!!!!
http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2010/11/coica-web-censorship-bill/
And, why shouldn't King Rockefeller and other Feudal Lords not be upset? a 100-year United States trading monopoly on their beloved corporate currency, the private federal reserve note, may be in jeopardy someday if this continues.
http://www.save-a-patriot.org/files/view/whofed.html
They may actually have to stop causing world wars and work like everyone else!!! And everyone else may actually benefit from their own free trade instead of always enduring the financial terrorism from the private Federal Reserve Gosbank corporation: namely,
(1) that they have arranged it so that we can only pay our 'temple tax' to the un-Constitutional Internal Revenue with their private fiat (faith-based) paper money, upon which we actually pay them an interest rate to circulate within their self-serving debt-based monetary system, which allows them to sit at the top, siphon wealth upward, keep there boots on the backs of our necks, and entirely manipulate our lives,
(2) that they have arranged it so as "bankers", these seemingly 'special' men, and everyone in their cartel and inner circle, enjoy all the fruitful benefits of 'legal' counterfeiting through both the printing press and further through 'fractional reserve lending' which allows bankers to create 'legal tender' out of thin air and then loan it to your reckless borrowing neighbor so he can drive up food, energy, and real estate prices so you've got to work harder to earn yours by providing productive goods and services.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_fractional-reserve_banking
You, see, bankers and their buddies always get to spend the newly printed money on such things as milk and bread at today's prices, but when the privately counterfeited money finally makes it into the hands of the little old ladies scrubbing toilets for a living, they must always pay the full upwardly adjusted price for their milk and bread. Oh, well, fuck 'em, bankers have yachts to buy.
After all, we only had a Gilded Age when there were competing currencies with real assets, such as gold and silver, backing them in America, so why would we ever wish to decentralize this counterfeiting paper monopoly which has incrementally destroyed small-town agrarian American and stripped States of their sovereignty?
i'm just waiting for the private Federal Reserve Note to become the monopoly corporate currency of the world so that we can continue to live as serfs and peasants under the superior families of the Rockefellers, Rothschilds, Morgans, and Lazards. After all, the survival of their sloth offspring is much more important than our children who will probably be starved or bombed when they decide that it is time to cull the herd.
my question is, in a "faith-based" paper debt monetary system,
...what happens when people lose faith?
one quibble...the bankers' exhorbitant privilege is that they get to earn INTEREST on their counterfeiting. How fuckin amazing is that?
They get to lend capital that doesn't exist and earn real interest off the fiction!
good work if you can get it.
Pump up the supply (inflation), then write off the currrent hidden losses (deflation), TPTB break even . . . with wholescale transfer of hard asset ownership along the way and tax slaves holding the bag for those hidden nominal losses (once realized) in the end?
Millions starve along the way, authoritarianism imposed worldwide, maybe even a profitable world war for entertainment.
The future is so bright I'm long on shades.
GREAT POST.
this is exactly what the game is.
People talk about the banks taking haircuts...WHAT haircuts? They never HAD THE DAMNED CAPITAL THEY LENT. It was conjured.
And now they get basically the entire NATION of Ireland in exchange. Hell, it's not that hard these days to BRIBE a "representative" to bankrupt and then liquidate his own State.
right, self-absorbed politicians always sellout liberty in exchange for short-term gains for themselves and their cronies. As for the International Banking Cartel, bailing out to gain more control is easy; just print money and lend it as planned.before all of this, however, it is essential to create a fiat debt-based monetary system and perpetuate a major bond market in order to support a ponzi scheme welfare state and subsequent culture of dependency. When the inevitable collapse ensues by design, more power can be consolidated and indigenous Irish people can be relieved of their property.
.A trillion plus lost in home values over the last 4 years but that's not deflationary. QE1 and QE2 are just bringing us up to the break even point. Print away Ben.
the "trillion lost in home values" is a coiled spring. you could get "the worst of all worlds" where home values explode higher as all that "foreign money comes home to roost" and "10 million Americans are immediately put out into the streets." Hence the importance of "the foreclosure process" as first reported on ZH.
Don't worry all those billions are back in banksters possession (thanks to Ben) and they just wait for reset. Then they will unleash all that money to bring another frenzy of buying shit and blow up new and bigger balloon.
Money is not destroyed when housing prices decline. Price discovery is marked downward as a reflection of malinvestment. When you print new money, you do not replace what is lost, you merely dilute the value of the remainder.
Printing may have created more money for the last hundred years, but it has not created value, which is a result of the production of goods and services. Money is not value- thus we have had inflation for the last hundred years that has destroyed the value of the dollar to it's present representation of about 3 cents.
Well said.
only until it starts chasing the loss of production and supply. that could happen as fast as it takes to empty a stores shelves. not long at all.
WTF, I mean,,, WTF! Now we see EUR trade through 1.40 again??
Of course.
I'll take the other side of that bet.
:D
Same here! I'll follow Orly in taking the other side of that bet. USD may very well be setting up to rally off this piece of news early in the week.
The USD also has exposure through the IMF. Yen rally, instead?
:D
Ha! Might give that a punt too.. But long EURUSD? How long will that trade work...
To be clear, I said short the EURUSD. If I said the opposite, it was a mistake (I will check...), but my recommendation is to short EURUSD. 1.288 could come in a rapid hurry.
sorry, was referring to Rubearish10's post. Personally Im thinking about going short too.. And long goldi!
dooo-dooo-doo-do-do-dah-dooo-dooo-doo-do-do-dah-dooo-dooo-doo-do-do-d
New Flash
This just in from DailyFX, analysis of the Euro situation...
http://www.dailyfx.com/forex/fundamental/forecast/weekly/eur/2010/11/20/
Euro_How_will_Traders_React_to_an_Irish_Bailout.html
The take-out: Trend: Bearish
"Had it been only one, it could be written off as anomaly. Yet, with two, there are the makings of a trend."
and...
"Germany’s push for sovereign bond investors to accept a portion of future potential losses will curb demand in an already restrictive time. Furthermore, risk aversion can be stoked by factors outside the European bubble (by say US housing market concerns or the application of emerging market capital curbs); but the effect would be the same on Europe’s pained financial system. As a global sore thumb, yields differentials would continued to balloon and force EU members deeper into trouble." - Kicklighter
We now return you to your regularly scheduled Fed bashing...
Thanks for the link Orly.
Kicklighter is a very smart analyst/writer for both fundamentals/technicals.
The Euro Dollar battle is nothing more then a mirrage.
Both currency's are going down and becoming shit.
Today there where the inflation talks in the Eurozone.
What a joke to listen to.
No inflation here people! Only food, energy and other essential have gone up, but if you would have bought a porche, you would have seen that those where cheaper SO there is a equilibrium and no inflation.
Yeah... so many people buy porches...
I'd love to have a nice screened front or back porch.
<giggle>
LOL
I'd love to have you on a screened porch. :)
with your penis??
Why is it just a tad unsurprising that "Rot"*wang* and "Banana"american are exchanging "barb"s on this topic?
Children! We are discussing intercontinental monetary domination...
ahem ... also known as whole population @$$ !!!!ing.
Well, I guess under the circumstances you are permitted a small amount of such fun and games.
hey...the dude propositioned an avatar...in public!
Or I just threw a line at some stuckup, that was conflating the 'screened' and 'roadable' material, because someone earlier didn't bow down to Ferdinand. That would be Porshe (in case you can't reach). And who knows from what native language domain the poster that made the fatal mistake of mistaking a mosquito free enclosure for a roadable German built steel (perhaps composite) cage originates.
That is a valid point about the native language issue.
Hi. Friend
PORSCHE!!!! For Heaven's sake!
And alloy wheels too. It's amazing what chum in the water will do.
There's a law : You have to be able to spell it before you can buy one. :-)
Just couldn't pass up the screened porch. Parlor games take all kinds of turns. Actually I think we are discussing a narrow segment of a multi-pronged attempt at slavery (disguised of course). The discourse at the best of times is far reaching, but the 1 day or 1 week look ahead is disappointing. The distortions (and redirects) are everywhere, and they are smoothly embedded within the culture (if it can be called that)
Fritz Lang
Evil villain in the great film, Metropolis.
Hi. I won't proposition another avatar. :)
That would be wise.
:D
LOL
What a zoo! Aw, Aw, Awhooooooooooo!
I know what you talking about, it's nothing new, just history shows you how it will end up. Poland, late 70's and 80's (I know it was commie country but economic laws apply everywhere) food, cigarettes, clothing, energy and all necessities sky rocketed in price but, tanks, bridges and airplanes were much cheaper so inflation was tame until they started to add zeros to the bills. It will happen in America and Europe any way, just kick the can down the road.
And the markets will rally on another sovereign failure from the financial system. It amazes me all the markets in the world are near year highs as the problems keep getting worse.
These are whole countries not companies buckling and breaking.
Are we going to see Irish riots?
Yes.
There is no scenario by which this "bailout" will work. The austerity will destroy the people and society, who are indentured slaves for all eternity until they overthrow their government and reverse this "agreement".
And, they *will* overthrow, just as Iceland did. It's only a matter of precipitating event, which is now inevitable.
From the article:
That is the crux. People will not accept unjust slavery for eternity. These debts can never be repaid, and as soon as the Irish people figure that out, they will refuse these agreements.
actually, your "from the article" snippet is zh commentary and not really from the article, but your point is still valid.
f*ck the queen... and the german banks... and the bernanke.
That is one ugly orgy, greased up deaf guy.
no sexual connotation intended, ma'am :).
the first segment is a common toast in ireland. the latter two were added with a smattering of artistic license. lol
I think we have been to the same licensing board!! I like to laugh.
Get it right.
It's "Fook the Queen" etc.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYLmptz_r_o
Irelands biggest export is their youth. And they have no problem packing up and leaving this island to rot.
The sick part is we will see banks rally and the whole world saved rally come Monday.
Don't be so certain...
+1
Id like to see more spotlight now on Spain - who is clearly 3x MORE fucked than Ireland, in notional terms of course.
Have to agree with Orly here. It is one thing to accept a bailout to benefit the banks. It is another to actually collect on the deed. This is becoming a common theme in most countries and it appears to me at least, that more and more people are questioning the wisdom of these actions.
In the US, we continue to create debt, but have yet to be asked to pay for it-thus the huge balance sheet at the FED. As the Polibuttfuckers begin to roll out their austerity measures: loss of entitlements, Vat, tax increases, military cuts and other costs to the economy and unemployment worsens; that is when you find out if a program works.
In Iceland, the answer became very clear, very fast. Iceland is still on the map. How long until more nations stand up an be counted? Uncollected debt will not benefit markets. With the long line of countries waiting in the wings?
The government will fall on a "no confidence" vote when the new budget is submitted on December 7.
are we going to see American riots because of Ireland?
maybe in the Woodlawn section of The Bronx....
"are we going to see American riots because of Ireland?"
"ireland broke our flatscreens?"
Pfft. Right. Riots to get the refurb $399 ipads on black friday.
On high interest credit card of course. Got more money when you don't pay your mortgage.
Rally on, em risk on...oh whatever
I will be rioting. We will see what these cuts are, already announced they will lower the minimum wage, the poor get shafted again, apparently it grew faster than inflation. Hmm, we all know what is coming with food and fuel costs, this is shortsighted in the extreme.
So yes, there WILL be riots.
You are correct, the US markets should rally hard on this news. Short week with light volume could rocket SPX IMO.
There should be European money coming out of European bonds and into UST two to tens. US bond prices rise, yields drop, the USD tanks and the SPX gets cheaper by the minute.
You may be on to something there, Mr. Wanger.
It should be a great week for precious metals
That would be cool. I went all in for the Crash JP Morgan silver buying campaign.
Demonstration of firepower was about the worst choice of words I can think of with the Irish. I certainly would not be hanging around any of the banks on the off chance they may be explosively deconstructed. Irish politicians may find people standing a little further away too.
+1916
+1916! The Irish Easter uprising! Ha, brilliant!
A good time to again view that great film, Michael Collins, about that bold Irish revolutionary of 1916.
Here's the terrific opening of the film - that immensely moving battle at the downtown Dublin main post office -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aq7bcY9tuao
There's a Michael Collins pub on Avenue Louise in Brussels. Maybe that's where the revolution agains the EU is being plotted.
Good movie.
Wow! Bailouts after bailouts.
Unlimited supply of money.
Too many people had the suss
Too many people support us
Un unlimited amount
Too many outlets in and out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjbie1O1jxc
US v. Ireland, et al. Different governments, same game.
Final score: Banksters $1 Trillion, People ($1 Trillion).
That's only the half-time score... soon to be: Banksters - $1tn, People - Pitchforks and rope.
Don't call it that fast. Remember the Banksters spent generations building the mil/industrial complex. Can't just ignore their team of loyal attack dog murderers armed with the latest toys. Just slap the label "Terroris" or "Rebel" on the people and watch the killers go to work!
I'm not sure you will have to slap a label on them. The police and military have come to identify with their agencies as the final arbitrators of law. Isn't curious that the Oathmakers are being identified as right wing militias? These are people who have served their country and still serve the Constitution.
If they use the same tactics the Soviets did to suppress populations, by bringing in other ethnic groups without real ties to the people involved- I think they will choose allegiance to the military over allegiance to their Constitution.
We fought a war over this once before. The people danced to the tune as called by each group of power brokers and the North won. They decimated their wealth and families, when all they had to do was accept the natural rights of man embodied in the Constitution and let the Black, the Indian and the indentured European people live free.
I am not of the opinion that the people today are any more learned or intelligent than those of the 1860's.
Ah you need to do more homework. The Civil War was over taxes. Read up on the Corwin amendment. Slavery was an afterthought, a PR move. After all a long war to brutally suppress your citizens over taxes needs a spin put on it. Read up on Lincolns views of Africans, hell check this out http://www.lib.niu.edu/2006/ih060934.html
It's all there in the history, just everyone accepts the PR as truth.
Here I expect the same, if there is riots or a revolt against the oligarchs they will raise the troops us as little PR and commence with oppresion.
Unless your point was all we need to do to avoid war is give up all rights, liberty, and property, and act only as slaves to the state/oligarchy. And then yes no need for local troops at all then.
Actually, the Civil War was fought for a number of reasons. Mainly, it was a power struggle between the wealthy classes of two types of merchantilists: manufacturers and commodity farmers. It was inflamed by European central bankers still stinging from the Jacksonian rebuke that destroyed their central bank.
Yes. Lincoln fought for the manufacturers and would have preferred to send the slaves back to Africa- further weakening the commodity farmers position, whom were dependent on cheap labor.
My point being, that all people had to do was say no to participating. If people do not participate- there can be no war, because wealthy people will never put themselves on the firing line. They require proxies. The people retain all the power, they are just incapable of marshaling the insight and courage to use it. They get worked up with the patriotic fervor and excitement their regular lives fail to provide or even employment and let the blood lust lead them to death and poverty.
Further, many in the south were well aware of the problems with attempting to continue slavery, as the costs had begun to eat into the benefits to such a degree, the threat to security was diminishing it's appeal.
What a war is fought over is always different than the real issues involved. Still, the people are sold by using an argument that appeals to their sensibilities : for the south- being told what to do and how to live by the yankees, for the north- the abolition of slavery. As people rarely understand the real arguments for a war- they are only important to historians.
Our only protection in the present is our ability to see through these attempts at propaganda and brainwashing and protect ourselves from the vile elite that would use us as cannon fodder in their little games.
But people will always play the game. It does not take many to get the ball rolling and can be done in all manner of ways. Hiring mercs like what was done in the old days, forced conscription, propaganda to get volunteers. All methods that are tried and true. After all only need to raise the attacking force, the defender must raise his own or perish. Humanity does not change (not in the time frames I'm talking about), so what has happened before will happen again.
War never benefits the common person, but he still falls for the trick every time. Why should the future be any different? The only real benefit to being informed is getting out of dodge. A wise rich man in the South would have done well to sell his assets and move before the war. Wealth isn't preserved by staying in a war-zone.
nope-this time it's different-it's total war.the banks and their allies will push and push. i do not think the old tricks will work.there is a time when a man is starving that he will "give in" for food. but then there's a point where all he wants is vengence.the crimes perpetrated by this group are so foul they must be destroyed. they where sitting pretty but it wasn't enough-they want it all but will end up with none.
The Civil War was fought because slavery stood in the way of economic progress, ahem, that is to say, the coming industrial revolution.
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[Ah you need to do more homework. The Civil War was over taxes. Read up on the Corwin amendment. Slavery was an afterthought, a PR move.]--Shameful
More homework indeed.
I find it helpful to take a long view of history as opposed to a snap shot, e.g. Corwin Amendment.
The common misperception of the Civil War is as follows: Lincoln was elected president of the U.S., Lincoln announced the Emancipation Proclamation to free slaves, war ensued.
I was surprised to learn the deep south had formally seceded from the Union (February 1861) before Lincoln even took office in March 1861. President James Buchanan was in office at this time. Secession from the Union had been brewing for years prior to 1860. The specter of Lincoln, a northerner lacking southern ideals, as winner of the 1860 presidential election was too great a threat. Secession during the "lame duck" session was sort of a way the South pre-empted the new administration—before the SHTF.
Secession, and thereby the Civil War, was indeed about slavery. In a sense, the primary cause of the Civil War was the South's wish to keep slavery, as opposed to the North's hope to one day abolish it. Southern soldiers took over "Federal" offices, and the war escalated from there. The nation was basically in a state of emergency when Lincoln took office.
Secession started in 1860. The Emancipation Proclamation was not written until 1862, publically announced in September 1862, and enacted January 1863.
As to the matter of Lincoln. After the Proclamation, Frederick Douglass said of Lincoln, "From the genuine abolition view, Mr. Lincoln seemed tardy, cold, dull, and indifferent, but measuring him by the sentiment of his country–a sentiment he was bound as a statesman to consult–he was swift, zealous, radical, and determined."
I believe the South forced Lincoln’s hand.
In the long view of history, Lincoln completed what our Founding Fathers left undone–necessarily so–in the Constitution.
[Isn't curious that the Oathmakers are being identified as right wing militias? These are people who have served their country and still serve the Constitution.]--Sean7k
Not sure I follow your thinking in your post #744576. I'm sorry I missed your point. Seemed important.
(I think you meant "Oath Keepers" instead of "Oathmakers.")
My bad. Thanks for the correction.
That was just the banks - next year it's going to be bonds again. The only thing that I can think of to really stop this is inflation...
Ireland didn't sell out, rather the MP's did. Despotism strikes again. What is about to unfold is worth the wait in gold/silver.
World Wide fascism.
Rubbish. French banks have almost as much to lose as Germans.
Why single out the Germans to pound on?
Any recent updates on the situation in the Baltic region? It has gone eerily quiet over there...