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Ireland Given 24 Hour Ultimatum To Take Bailout Or Be Responsible For Pan-European Contagion

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Domino 2 is done. Europe's banks are about to be rescued again as Europe's taxpayers foot the bill. In other news, former SAC star money manager Ron Insana says Ireland does not seem to be that much of an issue.

From the Guardian:

An increasingly isolated Irish government was coming under mounting pressure tonight to seek a European or International Monetary Fund bailout within 24 hours amid fears that contagion from its crippled banking sector might spread through the weaker eurozone countries.

Portugal, Spain, the European Central Bank and opposition parties all urged Brian Cowen's coalition government to remove the threat of a second crisis in six months by putting a firewall between Ireland and its partners in the 16-nation single currency.

With finance ministers from the eurozone due to hold emergency talks tomorrow night, financial markets were expecting Dublin to finalise negotiations with the EU over the terms of a deal to allow Ireland to rescue banks laid low by the collapse of the country's construction boom.

"The Irish problem is spreading, but it could get more volatile," said Ashok Shah, chief investment officer at London Capital, a fund management firm. "They have to get this bailout, they have a period of time before it gets impossible, before nasty things happen. The longer they leave it, the more difficult it will get."

Portugal has seen its borrowing costs rocket along with Ireland's as speculation has grown that it too may have to consider a bailout. Its finance minister, Fernando Teixeira dos Santos, told the Wall Street Journal his country had been hit by a contagion effect caused by fears about Ireland's ability to pay its debts.

"I would not want to lecture the Irish government on that," he said. "I want to believe they will decide to do what is most appropriate for Ireland and the euro. I want to believe they have the vision to take the right decision.

Continue reading here.

And some other front pages for tomorrow:

h/t @Lizzie363

 

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Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:04 | 728730 John McCloy
John McCloy's picture

  The Irish are proud.Let's hope they tell the ECB, IMF, Fed and bankers to kick rocks.

Meanwhile here are the current Time Person of the Year Results:

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,2028734_20290... you can see Lady Gaga  & Jon Stewart rocking the vote...Why is Tyler not nominated?

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:09 | 728747 docj
docj's picture

+1  Let's all hope for the best here.

I'm not Irish, but were I my answer would be a hearty, brogue filled, "F*CK YOU!!!!!" to the banksters.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:14 | 728769 John McCloy
John McCloy's picture

  The I.R.A. already stated their position on how they perceive the bankers 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/8003234/Real-...

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:36 | 728835 Sabibaby
Sabibaby's picture

They're saying what everyone's thinking (or has thought for a long time now)

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 22:24 | 729325 barkster
barkster's picture

Ireland should stand with Iceland!

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 23:05 | 729429 Ragnarok
Ragnarok's picture

A little music perhaps:

 

Flogging Molly - What's left of the flag

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qlym4eLWHFA

  

Dropkick Murphys - Fields of Athenry

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rplbo1Uw0Xo

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 23:14 | 729450 Vampyroteuthis ...
Vampyroteuthis infernalis's picture

I dig Flogging Molly and the Dropkick Murphys, but they are actually American bands.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 23:57 | 729732 erik
erik's picture

Flogging Molly's lead singer and songwriter is from Ireland.  They are the greatest live band going right now.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:44 | 728850 macholatte
macholatte's picture

OK!  Game on!

Let's hope they get it right, do a little ZH and You Tube research, and leave the branch managers and assorted low level workers alone.

The history of the last century shows, as we shall see later, that the advice given to governments by bankers, like the advice they gave to industrialists, was consistently good for bankers, but was often disastrous for governments, businessmen, and the people generally.
Carroll Quigley

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:53 | 728884 LeBalance
LeBalance's picture

Carroll doesn't tell the whole story, the banks already own the governments, business, and the people.  They are telling the same what to do.  The hand ringing by policy hacks is to make it seem that there is an alternative and that "freedom" exists.

It does not, slavery exists.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 20:39 | 729024 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

It's not nice to be owned and not even know when you were bought or who sold you.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 21:14 | 729118 stewie
stewie's picture

No-one is more hopelessly enslaved, than the one who falsely believe he is free.

 

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 21:34 | 729167 BigJim
BigJim's picture

So why isn't gold going apeshit on news like this?

Strange times.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 22:59 | 729418 nuinut
nuinut's picture

Because that ain't the price of gold you're looking at, it's the price of paper gold.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 22:19 | 729311 TwoShortPlanks
TwoShortPlanks's picture

Ain't that the damn truth!

"If War is an extention of Politics by other means then, Politics is an extention of Economics by other means and further, Economics is an extention of Servitude by other means."

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 22:17 | 729302 Fred Hayek
Fred Hayek's picture

My mortgage comes to mind.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 20:03 | 728923 samsara
samsara's picture

Thanks for the quigley quote.  I've quoted a few of his myself.  He laid it out. (then taught Bill Clinton)

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 20:16 | 728958 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

"Having flirted with insolvency until it was rescued by the International Monetary Fund and EU in May, Greece on Monday sought to reassure its partners that despite the latest figures, it remained on course." 

Rescued!  Rescued? HA!  All their problems were solved by offering them more debt?!!


Greece admits breach of bailout terms as audit begins.

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/afp/20101115/tts-eu-eurozone-imf-ecb-bank-greec...

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 23:33 | 729544 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

Totally OT:  Your handle reminds me of an old Bob Metcalfe joke.  Searching...dang, Google has it:

http://books.google.com/books?id=qk4EAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA132&lpg=PA132&dq=%22b...

"Some people laugh off Gore's claim to have invented the Internet.  But I'll have you know, to this very day, the internet runs on many of its original ALGORithms."

- Ned

Tue, 11/16/2010 - 01:13 | 729896 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

Let it be known that the imposter, Algorithm, is no relation of mine. When it comes down to relatives, he does not fit into the equation. DNA evidence of his claim to blood ties does not add up.

Tue, 11/16/2010 - 00:31 | 729819 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Don't forget that billions upon billions of our tax dollars go into the IMF as well!!!

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 20:40 | 729030 HellFish
HellFish's picture

Freakin sweet.  I'm impressed.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 21:30 | 729156 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

My prayers and hopes are with the people of Ireland. 

Fuck the banks...socialize the losses amongst their collective arses.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:19 | 728785 mikla
mikla's picture

+1

We *LOVE* the Irish and stand with them in this time of trial.

To save their souls from an eternity of Indentured Servitude, they should reject any offers from the IMF.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:22 | 728789 MaldelBot
MaldelBot's picture

Why? It worked so well for the Baltics.

 

:::falls to knees:::

 

SOOOOOROOOOOOSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 20:20 | 728966 UGrev
UGrev's picture

There was a fire fiiiiiiiggghhht!!!

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:41 | 728840 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

OH, so the EU is trying to pin it ALL on Ireland? What about France, England, Portugal, Spain, Greece? Theyre all OK now? Patently ridiculous...if I were Ireland I'd certainly tell them to go to hell.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:55 | 728897 LeBalance
LeBalance's picture

Tonight is an "I" night, the rest of the bankrupt alphabet will wait in the wings to "surprise" you (scary!) tommorrow!

Short term memory and all that.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 22:22 | 729318 Fred Hayek
Fred Hayek's picture

Amen.

The irish should realize.  It's not they who have no leverage, who have to come begging.  They have ALL the leverage.  How many British, German and French banks would be fucked if the irish default or even force big haircuts on bonds?  And what would that do to those countries' economies? 

If Ireland had baseball player agent Scott Boras representing them here they'd come away owing 25% of what they seem to owe. 

 

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 20:55 | 729074 tickhound
tickhound's picture

The Irish should take the bailout... Haven't they heard the age old American adage "the more you owe, the more you're worth?" 

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 21:50 | 729166 Village Idiot
Village Idiot's picture

dupe.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 21:39 | 729190 Village Idiot
Village Idiot's picture

"I'm not Irish, but were I my answer would be a hearty, brogue filled, "F*CK YOU!!!!!" to the banksters."

 

There's a song for that.  Hasn't been posted in a while, but so fitting. Click on the link and select song - "FUCK YOU"

 

 

http://www.ceelogreen.com/videos,fuck-you-official-video_16.htm?loc=

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 22:26 | 729331 Eternal Student
Eternal Student's picture

No, no, no! Saying FU to the banksters is the wrong approach at this time!

If there were a shred of truth to what the banksters are saying, the correct approach would be to say: "Fine. We'll take your money. No problem. But it's on OUR terms and not yours. 0% interest. Take this offer, or you Bankers be the ones responsible for contagion".

Which is a different way of saying F U. But a heck of a lot more profitable, and much better spin.

Tue, 11/16/2010 - 07:57 | 730172 OldTrooper
OldTrooper's picture

Kinda like paying your bankruptcy lawyer with a credit card.  There's some appeal to it.

Tue, 11/16/2010 - 00:33 | 729824 caconhma
caconhma's picture

At the end, like always, Germany will lose.

Tue, 11/16/2010 - 07:20 | 730155 M.B. Drapier
M.B. Drapier's picture

Whatever about the Irish as a whole, our political leaders are craven. Watch them sign up to this piece of work.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:04 | 728734 myztix
myztix's picture

Looks like financials is the play for tomorrow.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 20:06 | 728931 Cleanclog
Cleanclog's picture

Irish Times reported last week that when the Irish banks can find someone to "lend" to them as in buy bonds, it is at a rate of at least 8%.  Meanwhile, they lend mortgages at 5% so as not to have housing prices fall further.  

Really? A 300 bp differential the WRONG WAY?  And the ECB has been "supporting" the Irish banks and Irish bonds so the UK, French and German banks don't have to take losses on their bondholdings.  

So F-U taxpayers - the bondholders are saved and you get to foot the bill.  

The sequel will be coming to a theater near you soon enough.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:04 | 728739 FunkyMonkeyBoy
FunkyMonkeyBoy's picture

Banksters blackmail.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:06 | 728744 John McCloy
John McCloy's picture

What happens when people tell the banksters to go fuck themselves and the world does not end? Check with Iceland.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 20:43 | 729041 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

They are still owned by the banks...

15 NOV, 2010, 02.08AM IST,AGENCIES 

The International Monetary Fund said Sunday it planned to release the fifth installment of an Iceland aid package late this year or early next year, noting the country's economy was further stabilizing (bullshit).

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international-business/IMF-plans-fresh-Iceland-aid-says-economy-stabilizing/articleshow/6926911.cms

Tue, 11/16/2010 - 01:55 | 729961 MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

Mishkin notes discrepancy: proper title is

IMF Plans Fresh Iceland Aid says Economy Instabilizing [sic]

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:06 | 728743 Bonesetter Brown
Bonesetter Brown's picture

So is the ECB's message basically, "Sovereigns, one-at-a-time now, please get under our thumb, so that when this finally blows containment, we will at least have as many of you under our thumb as possible to 'help us out' when we get there?"

Default is not the problem, default is the solution.

 

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:34 | 728828 zelter
zelter's picture

Default is not the problem, default is the solution.

+999999

I hope they really do it and save the whole of Europe while at it.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:45 | 728853 Rainman
Rainman's picture

When/If the Irish hold a burn the mortgage party, Californicators can't be far behind. CMF crushed today.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 21:02 | 729093 Orly
Orly's picture

Barrett?

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:07 | 728745 I am more equal...
I am more equal than others's picture

Take it or you have to eat Haggish.....yum

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:09 | 728751 goldmiddelfinger
goldmiddelfinger's picture

Haggis is the reason chickens have no lips.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 20:55 | 729071 Orly
Orly's picture

It's Scotch anyway, isn't it?

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 21:44 | 729207 goldmiddelfinger
goldmiddelfinger's picture

yeah it is

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 23:37 | 729553 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

Eat more haggish. - Ned

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:07 | 728746 tmosley
tmosley's picture

The obvious solution is a 95% tax on the wealthy.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:09 | 728750 sabra1
sabra1's picture

DIREland should become the 53rd state, fit right in!

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 20:38 | 729018 squexx
squexx's picture

53rd state?!?! I thought there were 57! That's how many Obama has visited!

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 23:37 | 729562 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

or 58--he was confused then. - Ned

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:10 | 728754 El Gato
El Gato's picture

Goldman to recommend clients go long the Euro on this

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:11 | 728757 Coldfire
Coldfire's picture

Crisis? For banksters, yes. The sky is falling for them. These riverboat gamblers deserve to be - must be - taken out. Crisis? Bring it the fuck on.

 

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:12 | 728761 goldmiddelfinger
goldmiddelfinger's picture

Will tommorrow be the day the world discovers the euro isn't the deutche mark

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:15 | 728770 Quintus
Quintus's picture

Doubt it.  Some can-kicking strategy or other will be deployed, but the Euro will limp on for a while yet.  Unfortunately.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:17 | 728781 doolittlegeorge
doolittlegeorge's picture

haven't heard much from the Belgium front.  Word was "resignations in Italy with the plan being to dissolve the government."

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 20:52 | 729060 flacon
flacon's picture

How does Italy's resignations relate to the situation in Belgium?

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 21:37 | 729183 doolittlegeorge
doolittlegeorge's picture

it's called a "political contagion." the French have already shown themselves to be ruthless btw.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 22:25 | 729329 Fred Hayek
Fred Hayek's picture

Well, you could see that from the way they taunted King Arthur.

Tue, 11/16/2010 - 08:04 | 730180 OldTrooper
OldTrooper's picture

LMAO!

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:16 | 728775 lynnybee
lynnybee's picture

TELL THE ANGLO-EUROPEAN BANKERS TO GO TO HELL FOR ME, TOO ~~ !!   I'd sooner be on the streets than to be in debt to those people & commit my own children's future to never ending debt.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:16 | 728777 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

How many times does Lucy have to pull the football away before Charlie Brown tells her to fuck off? Seriously, do the bankers really think the people are that stupid to not see that an IMF "bailout" is simply a transfer of wealth from the people to the bankers. Come on, Irish, tell them to Fuck Off.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:41 | 728837 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

Amerikans fall for Left Handed Lucy then Right Handed Lucy pulling that football out every time...

Time and time again without fail...

That said ElvisDog... I'm with you:
Listen up Irish I'm giving you the Knute Rockne speech:

Now go out there and burn and blow one up for the Reagan... I mean the Gipper...

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:48 | 728867 szjon
szjon's picture

I'm sick of this idea of 'aid' and 'bailout'. It's a fucking loan at 5%, lets not beat around the bush. Predatory fuckers bet against us then lend us the cash to get deeper in.

 

I've taken to writing 'hang the bankers' on every frn I spend, my own little mini protest.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 20:08 | 728936 samsara
samsara's picture

Someone (:-) has been writing

www.zerohedge.com on the FRN margins.

Your quote will go on the top margin.

 

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 20:41 | 729032 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

At some point, very soon, the home addresses of every bank executive on Wall Street will appear on some websites.

 

Let's keep in mind that the traditional venues for riots are inner cities and poor areas.  With decent transport, the 21st century style of riots need not remain consistent with that historical norm.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 21:23 | 729132 szjon
szjon's picture

I find myself looking at sean fitzpatricks house on google earth, nice house, street view is the tool of the rebellion to come. ;-)

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 23:07 | 729433 samsara
samsara's picture

At some point, very soon, the home addresses of every bank executive on Wall Street will appear on some websites.

Yes, I believe someone said,

"Homes of the Stars, merged with, Board Member Directory data base, merged with, Child Molester Alert List, Merged with, Google Earth, merged with , Twitter/ipod/ipad/ieverything"

 

 

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 23:40 | 729605 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

then feed the list to Meet-UP and let 'er rip.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:17 | 728782 doomandbloom
doomandbloom's picture

You may take our lives, but you'll never take our freedom! 


Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:23 | 728793 MaldelBot
MaldelBot's picture

OMG people enough with the Scottish jokes. There is enough to make fun of w/ the Irish, me lads.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:17 | 728784 King_of_simpletons
King_of_simpletons's picture

I vote for contagion.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 20:20 | 728967 Chris Jusset
Chris Jusset's picture

BRING IT ON!

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:20 | 728786 monmick
monmick's picture

What do you have against Silvio?

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:26 | 728806 MaldelBot
MaldelBot's picture

That he never called when he said he would. : /

 

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:51 | 728876 goldmiddelfinger
goldmiddelfinger's picture

AT least Javier Bardem hasn't portrayed him in a 9 hour movie.

Tue, 11/16/2010 - 01:19 | 729916 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

He won't share the 17-year-old Morrocan Belly Dancers! :>D

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:23 | 728790 pigpen
pigpen's picture

Irish bailouts would keep the Irish people indentured to those who recklessly fund their banks: EFSF funds must, after all, be paid back by taxpayers. It would also give an official EU imprimatur on Europe’s dirty secret: public treasuries will do anything to make private bank creditors whole. 

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:24 | 728797 MaldelBot
MaldelBot's picture

Then what do you suggest? Bondholders take a haircut? How ever will they live? Do you KNOW how expensive filling up a yacht is? I mean, really...

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 22:20 | 729313 RECISION
RECISION's picture

I know that it is more fuel than I will every put in my car.

So, on one cruise they get to blow more CO2 than I ever will.

 

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:23 | 728794 RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

The Irish are not going to buckle.

They will chug more beer and just dig in their heels.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:26 | 728807 John McCloy
John McCloy's picture

Pretty much. They should just cut their corporate tax rate in half to 6%, tell the paper pushers to screw and watch the resurgence of their economy.

Tue, 11/16/2010 - 16:51 | 732206 ConfederateH
ConfederateH's picture

Great idea, but the entitlement parasites and the socialist bloodsuckers would never allow it.  After all, envy of success overpowers shame of mediocrity.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:29 | 728818 ihedgemyhedges
ihedgemyhedges's picture

Given the pressure, I'm bettin' they hit the Jameson pretty hard.......

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:42 | 728844 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

I hope so! SOMEONE needs to dig in their heels here quick!

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:46 | 728856 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

A real Irish Guinness gives a person a lot of courage...

Of course you have to stop rioting to piss a lot...

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:50 | 728872 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

Nice sentiment, but the shots are not being called by the average Joe standing in a pub or in a local council ... professional politicians are calling the shots. Forgive the reference to Scotland, but the same "pragmatic types" who sold William Wallace down the river are the types who will lead Ireland to its "salvation."

 

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:24 | 728796 Thunder Dome
Thunder Dome's picture

Luck o' the Irish.  F*** Notre Dame Football.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:24 | 728799 the not so migh...
the not so mighty maximiza's picture

How subtle "Borrow money from us or die!!"

 

 

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:24 | 728800 doggis
doggis's picture

you gotta love the hype.....who writes this stuff - best day time drama at the emmy's for sure!!!!   i love the part where ireland has been emasculated and collapses in a heaving pile of blubbering tears!!! 

come on ireland - get some balls!!!!!! its called having the bond holders take responsibility for their risk taking !!!! put the banks and the bondholders in a room and tell them to go at it!!! 

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:25 | 728802 bugs_
bugs_'s picture

What a choice, take the bailout or take the blame

 

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 21:09 | 729109 snowball777
snowball777's picture

The Irish are used to the latter...bring it.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:27 | 728808 HarryWanger
HarryWanger's picture

Headlines sell papers, I suppose. So dire the Euro hardly budging and off its low.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:55 | 728895 goldmiddelfinger
goldmiddelfinger's picture

especially when they raise the age of reirement to 32

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:27 | 728809 Mr. Anonymous
Mr. Anonymous's picture

Contagion, bitchez!

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:30 | 728811 Jason T
Jason T's picture

I sincerely hope they decline.  

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:27 | 728812 Comrade de Chaos
Comrade de Chaos's picture

Ultimatums ..rarely work in the long run.

 

p.s.

Chinese state news agency says death toll in Shanghai apartment building fire rises to 42 - BNO   wouldn't want to be in one of those poorly constructed building breaking any fire code possible, if any.
Mon, 11/15/2010 - 20:00 | 728913 vs an army all alone
vs an army all alone's picture

At least their buildings don't collapse with a fire!

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 22:11 | 729287 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

That's right Rosie and fire does not melt steel and rockets on the roof accelerated the wreckage faster than one gee..  That is you, right Rosie..

Tue, 11/16/2010 - 02:09 | 729983 MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

Rosie doesn't live here anymore...

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 21:10 | 729110 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Tell it to Comrade Paulson and the idiot congress.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:28 | 728815 goldstandard
goldstandard's picture

i sincerely hope the Irish tell their banking buddies to kiss their ass in Macy's window. Iceland survived and so will others. Go ahead and make my day.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:58 | 728868 Spalding_Smailes
Spalding_Smailes's picture

If Ireland was to default on her debt the banks of the country will collapse immediately. At that event their will be no way for the government to save the depositors of the banks. They will not be able to print or borrow money. The implications to the credit markets for such an event will be enormous since no bank will want to lend to any bank in Portugal, Italy, Greece, Spain and maybe others. Since this will be the first time since the crisis began in 2007 that depositors lost money it will cause a panic and it is very likely that  there  will be an immediate run on the banks of Portugal, Italy, Spain and Greece.

The credit default swap/counterparty risk issue would also loom large just like it did with Lehman.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 21:30 | 729157 Withdrawn Sanction
Withdrawn Sanction's picture

So, let's see, from the Irish citizen's perspective, (A) I pay through the nose in the form of austerity and get to save the rest of the world (incl. the CDS counterparties), or (B) I see my deposits evaporate?  Some choice.

Calling Mr. Hobson.  (choose B...either way you're hosed, and you might as well take the ingrates down w/you)

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 21:33 | 729163 Eternal Student
Eternal Student's picture

Yep. Dollar goes up, Treasury rates go down. Which solves one of  Ben's problems for a while.

 

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 22:14 | 729296 Orly
Orly's picture

Greetings, Mr. Smailes.  :D

Are we sure that President Hu isn't on the trunk line even as we speak?

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 23:11 | 729439 Spalding_Smailes
Spalding_Smailes's picture

Ben is not the only one with a helicopter ..... ?

Tue, 11/16/2010 - 04:32 | 730077 fredquimby
fredquimby's picture

And where will all that money go??

Gold.

And then where will the Euro-bank balance sheets be? In the black by suddenly a VERY big margin.

The Eurocrats are just waiting for a guinea-pig default to unleash FREEGOLD which will write off all their debts and flick the bird at the USD and the IMF simulataneously....

 

 

Tue, 11/16/2010 - 04:36 | 730085 Orly
Orly's picture

Why is there nothng on the internet about this, Mr. Quimby?

Tue, 11/16/2010 - 07:22 | 730157 fredquimby
fredquimby's picture

http://fofoa.blogspot.com

Check the comments of the latest piece.

P.S Not everthing is reported, or thought about, by the likes of you, google or the MSM Ms.Orly ...... (P.S nice avatar you have there)

Sat, 11/20/2010 - 09:46 | 743001 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

I have gold, but I think that's wishful thinking.

They're not as smart as some say. There's no backup plan, there's no big conspiracy, there's nothing out of obvious. It's just a bunch of clueless people struggling to remain afloat in a collapsing wellfare state environment.

Tue, 11/16/2010 - 09:19 | 730276 OldTrooper
OldTrooper's picture

At that event their will be no way for the government to save the depositors of the banks. They will not be able to print or borrow money.

You'll have to explain why the Irish government couldn't just issue the 'Irish Pound', 'Celtic Mark' or whatever and make that the legal tender in Ireland.  And a country that can issue its own currency wouldn't need to borrow.  They could certainly make most of their citizens whole with such a scheme and keep the local economies running.  Clearly there would be problems with such a course, but it might be preferable to perpetual debt-slavery.

As to the rest of the EU - well, any system that would collapse upon the defection or default of a minor member isn't much of a 'system' to begin with and will collapse eventually anyway.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 20:30 | 728816 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

It feels like deja vu all over again.

TARP: Bankers to US people: If you don't go deeper into debt, we will create a market crisis. One way or the other, we will make you poorer.

Government's Reply: Great Idea. Here, have some money on us.

Irish Bailout: IMF and EU to Irish people: If you don't go deeper into debt, we will create a market crisis. One way or the other, we will make you poorer.

Government's Reply: It's not our money we're spending. Thank you for the offer.

Two ways that bankers raise the debt levels of nations.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:34 | 728820 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

Since the Irish Political Elite Ass-Hole Class had to force the vote on the Lisbon Treaty down the Irish public's throat 3 times...

I say Irishmen:
Sack the Banksters...

  • I bet the City of London stands to scam some of your money on this one... I know how you Irish love Brit Banksters and their ever needy Queen...

Go Icelander on their fractional reserve asses...

We Amerikans will play that lame Notre Dame fight song for you...

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:29 | 728821 beastie
beastie's picture

C'mon Ireland time to take back the country. 

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:44 | 728824 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

I thought it was the American (IMF) taxpayer footing the bill?

"The currentsea race to the bottom".....

I saw this as a title in an Economist, that was when I knew the full extent that the site was influencing the mainstream.  TD has been using that term for years now.

Any who, Yen weakness causing dollar strength, and the Chinese Yuan snakes around sending PMs all which ways.  Also, during the last European Contagion (sounds like a sexually transmitted virus) the Euro had an upside.  IMF too buy their bonds again? 

In related news the moves in gold show selling with prompt buying, but for this to continue, there would have to be a very large seller.  Is it possible the Fed is selling (leasing) gold to the IMF/World Bank as collateral to keep from anyone (the Chinese) from ditching the dollar?

If the IMF/World Bank are buying gold and bonds, what does that say?  Is it these organizations that are the actual lenders of last resort? If so, should attention be focused onto other institutions (not discounting the Fed at all) for manipulating prices/policies?

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:44 | 728847 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Is it possible the Fed is selling (leasing) gold to the IMF/World Bank as collateral to keep from anyone (the Chinese) from ditching the dollar?

Well, since that's what's kept this game afloat until now, you can be sure they are least selling them gold-plated tungsten.

If the IMF/World Bank are buying gold and bonds, what does that say?

Globo (I'll bet the BIS is in on it too)

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 22:56 | 728864 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

So they are holding paper rights on the entities currently issuing, bonds and stocks....

That would mean then that these entities are preparing for what?

Who is the lender of last resort?  The Fed??

Then not.

The question then is, does Ireland understand the implications of the next bailout?  And the next?  Does any sovereign nation for that matter?  And that is the matter, and what matters.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:33 | 728826 jmc8888
jmc8888's picture

The powers that be say.....Blame the irish....not the already dead system.  ROFL. 

Like any bankster in the world is not the pot calling the kettle black at this point.

Ireland is not a scapegoat, but whoever they can get the people to convince them someone other than the banksters 'is responsible' serves a useful purpose for them.  3rd grade mentality, but it's worked for millenia.  Be on guard.  If not ireland, or any of the other so called 'PIIGS', or us here in U.S.A., or somewhere else....it will be attempted to make somebody the illegitimate reason why it 'ALL' failed.  Pay no attention to the facts, just blame whoever it was that stood up and said no, no more bs, and broke the cog that breaks ALL markets.

It's just Ireland is on the clock right now.

Tue, 11/16/2010 - 05:54 | 730128 destiny
destiny's picture

THE DEVIL WENT DOWN TO IRELAND

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDm_ZHyYTrg&feature=related

 

GO IRELAND, DO'NT SELL YOUR SOUL TO THESE FREAKEN BANK CROOKS !!!

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:36 | 728832 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

USA Today ran an article today stating that the Irish said "thanks, but no thanks" to the bailout.

 

My, what fine looking potatoes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GO-irf4ZP4

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:47 | 728862 CitizenPete
CitizenPete's picture

LMFAO

 

beehp!

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:36 | 728834 Bigger Dickus
Bigger Dickus's picture

In a few months' time, any non-cowards left in Ireland will make the IRA look like Paris Hilton's chihuahua.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:38 | 728838 Al89
Al89's picture

I'm surprised no one is talking about Italy. Sure Portugal are bad, and I know the focus is on Ireland right now. But if one country is horribly run and massively corrupt it has to be Italy. I wonder how long they'll be able to keep their heads above water. 

I love how Greece, Portugal, Spain, Ireland and Italy all have one thing in common, other than a propensity to run up massive debts- populations who get fucking angry, very easily. Unlike here in Britain, where the people in general are idiots without any spine whatsoever.

 

 

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:46 | 728858 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Meh, idiots with spines aren't any better.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 20:22 | 728969 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

"I'm surprised no one is talking about Italy."

I'm surprised no one is talking about the United States!

$13.731 Trillion and counting.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 21:14 | 729117 snowball777
snowball777's picture

I don't think it makes sense to categorize a country with a national debt of 115% of GDP as "able to keep their heads above water".

 

Tue, 11/16/2010 - 04:40 | 730094 fredquimby
fredquimby's picture

Italy have 3,000 tons of gold reserves. That's why. Too difficult to take down with that kinda back-up....Ireland has only 6 tons of gold so an easier target

Sat, 11/20/2010 - 09:59 | 743007 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

Or is it 2,500 tons (according to most resources on the Web)?

The problem is, that's not a lot of money (€38 billion or so).

Why would that matter?

 

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:41 | 728842 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

Ireland, Iceland ... whatever.  They spent and spent and bubbled up their economy, and now they are reaping what they sowed.  What is truly amazing is that the average German taxpayer will once again be asked to pick up the tab ... and probably will.

 

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:44 | 728848 Fraud-Esq
Fraud-Esq's picture

In Ireland, there are entire communities of brand new homes without a single buyer. It was identical to the Empire Savings fraud with unused homes on the 1-94 corridor.

Bankers getting kickbacks from developers.

The fraud bankers took down Ireland, not the Irish.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:57 | 728902 szjon
szjon's picture

+1 bailout @5%

Tue, 11/16/2010 - 07:30 | 730161 M.B. Drapier
M.B. Drapier's picture

You're much too kind. We couldn't have done it without our own ranks of fraud bankers, goon property developers, rancid politicians and housebuying eejits. Oh, and the public-sector unions.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:46 | 728859 Al89
Al89's picture

Europe will soon have another Spring of Nations.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:55 | 728890 RumCurrency
RumCurrency's picture

Continuing to pick up the tab for losing WWII.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 20:18 | 728961 goldmiddelfinger
goldmiddelfinger's picture

They've been the only europeans with guts in the last 150 years.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:56 | 728900 szjon
szjon's picture

Some of us didn't spend, that's a big brush you're wielding there fella!

Tue, 11/16/2010 - 18:52 | 732641 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

OK, so I should have said "Borrow-Borrow-Spend-Spend" ... all I know is that I didn't borrow, and I spent when I could afford, and in the end I am paying on two continents for someone else's reckless borrowing and spending on two continents.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:44 | 728846 Al89
Al89's picture

http://www.businessinsider.com/european-debt-maturity-profile-2010-5

EU double dip and debt crisis getting worse, combined with these figures for Italian debt maturities.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:45 | 728857 max2205
max2205's picture

Ron I is a tool

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:51 | 728873 belogical
belogical's picture

F them!

These countries our partly in this situation because people were willing to lend these countries money. If they can't pay it back then that's the responsibility of the lender. They should not have lent that level of debt to a country it was irresponsible.

They made an investment decision and it was wrong. they should take major hair cuts.

 

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:54 | 728889 TheGreatPonzi
TheGreatPonzi's picture

Of course, on a morality standpoint.

But morality and finance don't mix.

If lenders have to support the losses, the Ponzi will quickly run out of steam.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 21:00 | 729085 TWORIVER
TWORIVER's picture

like putting tourniquet on a beheading victim perhaps.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 19:53 | 728881 goldmiddelfinger
goldmiddelfinger's picture

Ireland was Europe's miracle just 5 years ago !! WTF ?

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