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Irish Member of Parliament Foresaw The Truth: "We Are Screwed As A Country Because Of The Wrongdoing Of Others"

Tyler Durden's picture


A year ago Irish Green Party politician Paul Nicholas Gogarty told Irish Labor Party TD "With all due respect, in the most unparliamentary language; Fuck you, Deputy Stagg, fuck you!... We Are Screwed As A Country Because Of The Wrongdoing Of Others." It took a year for Gogarty to be proven correct. Now that the "others" have been identified as virtually every UK and German bank, not to mention every insolvent financial institution in the world, and of course, the Fed's banking buddies, one wonders: just how will Ireland respond? Also, when will America finally see one of its pathetic excuses for representatives finally do the right thing and actually speak the truth. InTrade over/under: never. 

h/t Karl Denninger


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Sun, 11/21/2010 - 22:27 | 745314 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Screwed bitchez...with an irish accent

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 00:06 | 745511 caconhma
caconhma's picture

These welfare politicians and banking ruling elite have betrayed the people and their country. These corrupt Irish bastards had to resign and conduct the country referendum.

Ireland is not a single guilty party in this situation. It is always both sides responsible for any failed relationship. Consequently, greedy Germans and British banks who irresponsibly provided loans to borrowers incapable of or unwilling to pay their debts must also take responsibilities for their actions.

Hard-working Irish people must force their banks to take full responsibility for their actions. If these banks cannot pay, they must go bankrupt with their leaders going to jail.

Irish politicians betrayed their people and must be treated as traitors without any mercy.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 01:21 | 745614 trav7777
trav7777's picture

the banks and bankers have a vested interest in running ponzis.

This is precisely WHY they lent to dead people and NINJAs.  Nobody gave a fuck because it was all just toxic shit for the bank to hustle, package, and sell.

Inflation/deflation is an old racket.  There are 200+ year old quotes about it

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 03:32 | 745754 chrisina
chrisina's picture

So Ireland is screwed and it's all the fault of "others". Others being foreign banks of course. No Irish?

Ireland has foreign liabilities of Euros 2.65 trillion and foreign assets of Euros 2.5 trillion. That's about 15 times the Irish GDP. World record!

And why is that? Because Ireland has the lowest corporate tax rate in Europe : if a British or German bank wanted to invest in Spain, it's do it via its Irish subsidiary, like this it paid less taxes. Good for the British or German bank, Good for the Irish tax payer who can afford to pay less taxes, Bad for the British or German tax payer.

When real estate assets all over Europe were bubbling up, Ireland reaped immense profits from being one of the major hubs of this parasitic spiderweb that are international financial cartels. Now that real estate assets all over Europe are dwindling down Ireland is set to lose massive amounts. But of course this is all the fault of "others". It's "others" who forced Ireland to adopt the lowest corporate tax rate in Europe. It's "others" who decided for the Irish that they should become this parasitic spiderweb's hub.


I'm all for blaming German and British banks, but let's not forget that the Irish, and especially their corrupt politicians must share a big chunk of this blame. The Irish didn't complain during the bonanza years, they didn't say, let's resist this easy money and the temptation of fake prosperity. They actually facilitated it. And now of course, it's all everyone else's fault.


Mon, 11/22/2010 - 05:07 | 745808 szjon
szjon's picture

We keep hearing about these 'good' years here in Ireland, we keep being told that we had it good and now it is time to pay for it.


Me and my family seem to have missed that, we just saved and worked and worked and saved and now we have to pay for it.


Some of us didn't buy ridiculous housing, new cars every year and 3 foreign holidays. One of the big eye openers for me was seeing a civil servant on the news complaining he couldn't make ends meet on €55000 a year.


When you consider my wife and I don't make that between us and have 3 kids and plenty savings then it gives you an indication of what life has been like here for the past few years. Yes, others are to blame for this mess, (from where I am standing) but there are a lot of folks here in Ireland who would tell you otherwise.


Mon, 11/22/2010 - 08:05 | 745828 chrisina
chrisina's picture

Of course, you're absolutely right, not everyone is to blame in Ireland. There are many many Irish families who lived a responsible life and refrained form participating in this bubblicious nonsense and taking advantage of this easy money.


All I'm saying is that it's a bit easy to blame everything on the "others" (foreign bankers) when there are also many in the Irish elite  (corporocracy and especially Irish politicians) who are to blame, who thought they could get wealthy easily by selling their souls to the devil (ie trying to attract foreign capital at all cost by lowering the corporate tax rate to the lowest in Europe).


I think it's completely unfair that those who lived a responsible frugal life and saved for a rainy day are going to get fucked by those who accumulated mountains of debt. Because that will be the consequence when Ireland finally defaults, debts are reset to zero, savers ruined, debtors free. Why do so many commentators here seem to think this will be a just "solution" to Ireland's problems?

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 06:52 | 745869 terranstyler
terranstyler's picture

I think you can generalize your case: Screw or get screwed.

Be it stupidity or malevolence, these guys are the majority and Democracy remains metaphorically the decision of three wolves and one sheep about what to have for lunch.

Paradoxically, those being honest and farsighted will sooner or later have to face the consequences of their responsible behaviour!

But the irony of it all is: The more responsible you behave, the longer the scam will continue; much in the same way you can bring the system down by becoming a part of it. So adapt: Buy PM on credit / margin and if it works out, you're rich; if not default. 

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 07:39 | 745890 ReeferMac
ReeferMac's picture

Buy PM on credit / margin and if it works out, you're rich; if not default.

Ahh... The old PIMCO shuffle. I remember seeing that somewhere's before?

I agree that unfortunately, responsible persons will not be rewarded for their behaviour, while those that partook in the recklessness, will be absolved of all commitments. It's just a repetition of what's been going on in big business for years. GM ran their company into the ground, BAILOUT! How many banks received bailout money due to poor management?Where's my check for screwing up my checkbook?

Without debating the merits or purposes, we are fighting nature on a fundamental level, and we are going to lose. You can't beat Mother Nature. She's got some pretty simple rules, but you HAVE to follow them. Darwin was the first to put them to paper, but we all know them pretty well. When the Water buffalo makes a poor decision and gets a drink at the watering hole WITHOUT looking for the Alligator first, he gets eaten by the alligator. The rest of the herd says "Did you see what happened to Liam?", and moves along. When a corporation makes poor decisions, they are eaten up by their competition for pennies on the dollar. The rest of the herd says "Did you see what happened to Lehman?", and moves along. Executives are supposed to go broke and be shunned from ever working in the industry again ("So, your last job was running who into the ground for the shareholders?"), workers lose their jobs, and the bigger company makes oodles of money off the other company's fuck-ups. Pretty simple, really, just like a watering hole.

Why are so many trying to fight mother nature? Alligator's gotta eat too....

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 08:57 | 745951 Red Neck Repugnicant
Red Neck Repugnicant's picture

Darwin was the first to put them to paper...

Oh, great.  Another "science" guy.

And I suppose the Earth is over 6000 years old, too. 

Whatever. I ain't no monkey, so you can take your Darwin crap and go back to Huffington.  

Here me now - May the spirit of our Father Lord Jesus impart your soul with heavenly wisdom and guidance to defeat the devil's workshop that has put monkey-thoughts in your mind.  Prepare for Revelation!  All those in agreement, say AMEN!

Don't get me preachin'.  I can preach like no buddy's business. Lord have mercy!   

Conservatives/Bible/Republicans/Palin  2012

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 09:38 | 746024 terranstyler
terranstyler's picture


Right now we have a buffalo shaman that resurrects the eaten by draining life from the non-eaten. So drink whenever you want, as long as the shaman is alive.

Back to reality: The only thing to stop this madness is default default default. Enjoy the free money, spend it wisely and then default. It's your money anyway that you steal from the banks, so who cares?

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 08:12 | 745914 El Hosel
El Hosel's picture

  "The blame is on others".   For all "others" who have been allowed to screw and rig the "system", its too late for blame... and apparently it is too early for any form of justice.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 10:53 | 746223 skipjack
skipjack's picture

There is no reason for the Irish public to bail out the banks.  That's the essential point.  Saying that Irish people participated is just an abdication of responsiblity of those who were the wrong-doers, the banks and the politicians who enabled them.


If you are going to lend money to people who can't repay you, then YOU take the loss and don't force your neighbors to fork it over.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 13:51 | 746882 chrisina
chrisina's picture

Sure I take the loss. But I also take the colateral.


Or are you suggesting that mortgages were contracted with no form of colateral? That if I can't pay back the mortgage, no problem, I get to keep my house. That if a real estate developper can't pay back his loan to the bank, no problem, he gets to keep the real estate developement and gets to sell it later at 50 cents on the dollar and it's all profit for him?



Mon, 11/22/2010 - 06:13 | 745849 breezer1
breezer1's picture


Sun, 11/21/2010 - 22:34 | 745325 papaswamp
papaswamp's picture

I think when you have to get bailed out by another country, you are indeed screwed. This deal went through on a Sunday night...Monday in Ireland will be very interesting.

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 22:36 | 745330 HarryWanger
HarryWanger's picture

Doubtful that anything will happen. A few of the "informed/educated" will grumble and stomp their feet. For everyone else, it'll be a pub topic after work.

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 22:51 | 745350 Tortfeasor
Tortfeasor's picture

And that will last how long?  Forever?  A week?  Seven years?

We are laying the groundwork for a new dark ages here and now.  Short term stock market gains come at the price of long term destruction of wealth and, eventually, societal demise for many countries.

TPTB are happy for you to make a few coins off of trading their stocks...they'll take it back from you ten fold through inflation, taxation and wealth destruction.

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 23:15 | 745429 HarryWanger
HarryWanger's picture

It can go on for decades really. At some point it ends in tears but we're nowhere close to that happening. As long as they can keep this going, and we're just in the early innings here, market will rise, people will get giddy and there will be a new bubble creating more jobs. Always works that way.

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 23:23 | 745445 SteveNYC
SteveNYC's picture

"Always works that way"


Harry, you need a lesson in impermanence.

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 23:26 | 745451 HarryWanger
HarryWanger's picture

All I'm saying is according to the majority here by this time we were all going to be living in bunkers eating Glen Beck sponsored dried foods and wearing three firearms everywhere.

Interesting. Didn't see that at all at the mall today. Saw lots of smiling faces buying shit. Same as always. We're decades and multiple bubbles away from any "implosion". Sorry, just the way it works.

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 23:56 | 745499 Bob Sponge
Bob Sponge's picture

Does the USA's high debt/GDP ratio cause you any alarm at all?

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 00:14 | 745516 Aristarchan
Aristarchan's picture


Mon, 11/22/2010 - 00:19 | 745522 Aristarchan
Aristarchan's picture

I think you may be right...I was out at the local gun emporium a few days ago to buy a case of shotgun shells, and hell, people were in there buying ammo and handguns like crazy. Of course, just by looking at that crowd, most of them couldn't hit the inside of a room if they were standing in it. Pseudo survivalists and conspiracy theorists mostly....not serious people.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 02:28 | 745723 LowProfile
LowProfile's picture

Your ignorance of the current economic situation in the US is eclipsed only by that of your ignorance on the history and nature of the Irish people.

In case you didn't get that, your a perfect dumb fuck.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 02:29 | 745726 Chito Campo
Chito Campo's picture

Harry, your comments are being roundly rejected through the junk button.  It's not a matter of people not understanding you -- people see what they want to see.  In the case of a majority of ZHers, predicting the econolypse and thoroughly convincing themselves it is imminent gives them the feeling they have the power to understand the world around them.  Perhaps more significantly, they feel they are capable of seeing things average people cannot.  If you disagree, then it's because of your inferior intellect and, in that way, it's a self-reinforcing delusion.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 03:02 | 745736 Bob Sponge
Bob Sponge's picture

I think you are seeing what you want to see.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 07:50 | 745899 ReeferMac
ReeferMac's picture

+100! Indeed, I got up early today to make sure the Sun was going to rise like yesterday (I heard Ireland took the money, so I wasn't sure!)

I think a dramatic and powerful change would be very refreshing, but so long as Dancing With the Stars is on, you haven't a chance (more Soma please)!

Let me show my power through the internet by clicking a button and showing YOU how silly you are, trying to argue intelligently against a mass of hysterical myopic trolls from the lunatict fringe! I'll 'junk' you, you ignorant bastard.


People will always see what they want to see. It's "easier" to go through life w/o complications and confrontations. That's what makes drug addicts, addicts! It's easier to take another hit than go on living Sober! So you spend your days hanging around with other potheads, and before you know it, it seems perfectly believeable that everyone gets high (gubermint statistics lie man, there's way more smokers out there man...), and those tin-foil-hat types are starting to make some real sense. Of course they do, if that's all you listen to, or read, or choose to believe! Next up on ZH, logical arguments in support of Religion (you pick, they're all the same, really)!!

(shakes head, sighs).....

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 17:42 | 747709 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

Change your handle to Frog Soup. 

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 09:10 | 745968 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Nice one.

Most of Irish are also plentifully aware they have got a good deal. Their protest is a rhetorical one, just not to overjoy.

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 23:10 | 745420 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

Bord Gáis and the Electricity Supply Board, Ireland's motorways, CIE, the national oil reserves, our stake in Aer Lingus as well as the best parts of the Dublin banks and the whole of the national pension fund are likely to be pledged as security in return for the tens of billions of euro in loans the government will receive from the IMF, the European Community and the European Central Bank.

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 23:19 | 745437 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

That is too high a price to pay to bail out irresponsible bankers. I hope the people shoot every member of the ruling party.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 00:16 | 745518 Rome is burining
Rome is burining's picture

Silly boy - they have no guns over there.  Only in America - land of the armed!  And when we fall, the only people who will have guns will be big brother!

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 01:26 | 745623 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Harry Wanger says that this is no problem and everyone will just shrug and kiss the Blarney Stone and life goes on.

They have pledged the mfing ROADS underneath the Irish motorist and the national pension fund.

How does this NOT end up like Argentina, where the foreign banks that lent capital that did not exist will end up owning the land underneath their feet?

This is EXACTLY what Jefferson meant in that famous letter to the Treasury Secretary in 1802.  People act like we are in a new world or some kind of NEW economy where we simply HAVE to have a central bank and debtmoney...the reality is that this banking scam is hundreds of years old.  It is NOT new in any way.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 08:16 | 745919 Bolweevil
Bolweevil's picture

Lending capital that didn't exist. That part still blows me away. Some people (me) are so naive.

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 23:17 | 745434 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Man you do not know the Irish at all; that BS logic might fly with American sheeple, but these folk are not shy about use of force to express themselves.

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 23:20 | 745439 HarryWanger
HarryWanger's picture

They express themselves with force over being a Catholic or Protestant. There will be no "use of force" for a problem most of the population doesn't understand or really care about.

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 23:32 | 745459 Big Red
Big Red's picture

"Bord Gáis and the Electricity Supply Board, Ireland's motorways, CIE, the national oil reserves, our stake in Aer Lingus as well as the best parts of the Dublin banks and the whole of the national pension fund are likely to be pledged as security in return for the tens of billions of euro in loans the government will receive from the IMF, the European Community and the European Central Bank."

"The talks were focusing on ways of limiting the amount of the private banking debts that a generation of Irish citizens will be made to pay for."

So, the Irish citizenry "won't understand" nor "really care", eh?

What's so hard to understand?

BTW, since the IMF is involved, that's means dollars that ultimately come out of the US citizenry's pocket will be more-or-less going into private bankers' pockets (AGAIN!), doesn't it? I'm having a hard time trying to understand, see...

Lastly, it seems that many of our fine USA Corporations have just been giving the "OK sign" that corporate tax rates won't have to go up, how wonderful for those bastards.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 01:33 | 745633 trav7777
trav7777's picture

GFD why can't people see what's happening?

the big countries are using their banks JUST LIKE THE BOE DID for CENTURIES, as a tool of EMPIRE, to go in and lend into ponzis of their own creation, and then via deflation, literally deprive the people of their property.

They are going to RENT Ireland to the Irish...this is the great famine era all over again. 

Jesus Christ, am I ALONE in seeing this?  The capital lent DID NOT EXIST and the debt COULD NOT ever be repaid!  This is fucking precisely WHY USURY has been ILLEGAL for MOST of the last 2000 years!  It's why even the usury clan had a regular jubilee!

The notion that ANYONE has any obligation to repay bullshit capital conjured from thin air is absurd.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 02:12 | 745708 OldTrooper
OldTrooper's picture

BLASPHEMER!  How dare you say that the Fed Ponzi Certificates carefully spun by master alchemist Greenspan and his young apprentice Bernank, of only the very finest electrons mind you - building blocks of the very universe, do not exist!

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 05:40 | 745833 Peace is the x-axis
Peace is the x-axis's picture

"...of the very finest electrons mind you - building blocks of the very universe, do not exist!"

Irony alert.

It's all just "waves".



Mon, 11/22/2010 - 20:20 | 748123 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

"It's all just "waves"."


Hmm, that jogs the memory. When I was a young man, I went through a week or so of profound clarity, an "epiphany" or "vision" came to my conscience. I could see that everything was waves, my minds eye could see how things really were. My buddy, who was a border line genius, thought that I had lost my marbles when I began explaining the thoughts that were entering my mind, so, I never mentioned it again...till now.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 00:52 | 748558 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Each of us is a wave. We're not a fixed entity.

Molecules are being added to us all the time, while others are being shed. Not unlike a sand dune ... where grains of sand are added by the wind on one side, while others are being blow off the other side. In this way, the dune appears to "move" as a single entity across the desert.

Interesting concept.

Tue, 11/23/2010 - 02:11 | 748671 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture



"The Sun is 333,000 times as massive as Earth is. Despite its large mass, the Sun has a lower density, or mass per unit volume, than Earth. The Sun's average density is only 1.409 g/cu cm (1.188 oz/cu in), which is a quarter of the average density of Earth."

 - see any problems with this?



Mon, 11/22/2010 - 05:31 | 745823 Peace is the x-axis
Peace is the x-axis's picture

"They are going to RENT Ireland to the Irish... am I ALONE in seeing this?"

No, you're not alone Trav. You're 100% correct. As per my lengthy post in an earlier thread re Ireland -

"To-day I may tell you that our goal is now only a few steps off. There remains a small space to cross and the whole long path we have trodden is ready now to close its cycle of the Symbolic Snake, by which we symbolize our people. When this ring closes, all the States of Europe will be locked in its coil as in a powerful vice...


We shall soon begin to establish huge monopolies, reservoirs of colossal riches, upon which even large fortunes... will depend to such an extent that they will go to the bottom together with the credit of the States on the day after the political smash...


It is essential therefore for us at whatever cost to deprive them of their land. This object will be best attained by increasing the burdens upon landed property - in loading lands with debts...


What we want is that industry should drain off from the land both labor and capital and by means of speculation transfer into our hands all the money of the world, and thereby throw all the GOYIM into the ranks of the proletariat. Then the GOYIM will bow down before us, if for no other reason but to get the right to exist...


Economic crises have been produced by us ... by no other means than the withdrawal of money from circulation. Huge capitals have stagnated, withdrawing money from States, which were constantly obliged to apply to those same stagnant capitals for loans. These loans burdened the finances of the State with the payment of interest and made them the bond slaves of these capitals ... The concentration of industry in the hands of capitalists out of the hands of small masters has drained away all the juices of the peoples and with them also the States..."


Mon, 11/22/2010 - 06:58 | 745850 chrisina
chrisina's picture


The notion that ANYONE has any obligation to repay bullshit capital conjured from thin air is absurd.

So if I understand you well, one gets to buy a house from a 100% mortgage (capital conjured from thin air) and even better get to buy a car, swimming pool , granite counter top etc.. .from remortgaging the house at a higher value (more capital from thin air) and when the whole thing goes bust, get to keep the house, swimming pool, car, granite counter top, etc... and one is free from any obligation to repay anything?

hmmm too bad I didn't get to participate in that sweet deal. Silly me.

Are you suggesting that it's only fair that debtors get free from repaying anything, keep the stuff they bought entirely at credit and those who saved for a rainy day (like me) get ruined?

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 08:16 | 745918 BurningFuld
BurningFuld's picture

The money was loaned with full knowledge it could never be paid back. Meaning there were no rules regarding the lending of money. This is actually fine with me. BUT, if there are no rules on lending there should be no rules on paying it back either.   That would probably slow the lending down a bit wouldn't you think??

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 09:02 | 745932 chrisina
chrisina's picture

What do you mean with "full knowledge it could never be paid back"? You mean banks actually knew when they granted those mortgages that they would all default? And the families who signed those mortgages actually knew they wouldn't be able to pay them back. They all knew that house prices would eventually plummet and that they would all lose their jobs. They all did that with actual prior knowledge of the future, that they would NEVER be able to pay back those loans but despite this all took the decision to do so?


There are no rules on lending and no rules on paying back loans? Which planet do you live on?

The basic rule of lending has always been the same: you sign a mortgage against a house as collateral. If you can't pay back the mortgage, the creditor gets to repossess the collateral. Are you saying that it's not valid any longer?


Gee, if only I had known, I should have signed this mortgage for this five million dollar home in Beverley Hills. I knew I couldn't pay it back. The bank also knew. But it doesn't matter, the bank would have still given me the money, I wouldn't have paid back anything, and because "there are no rules", I would have gotten to keep the house.


Silly me, why didn't I think about it?


Let me correct your alternate version of reality with what actually happened :

Instead of 

"the money was loaned with full knowledge that it would never get paid back"

correct with

"the money was loaned with full knowledge that if it could not get paid back the creditor would reposess the collateral".

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 09:27 | 745996 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Not as simple as that.

The possibility to repeat over and over again the same consumption act (one possible definition of debt) is thinning out.

Quite a lot of people are aware of this fact and are busy with trying to consume the most possible.

Banks definitively loan knowing the issue. Put straightforwardly and oversimplisticly, when one borrows to build a house, sometimes, in a near future, the possibility to build a second similar house must exist.

This is the primary condition to trigger a debt procedure.

If that possibility does not exist, the house is automatically repossessed as the lender can not acquire a similar house for himself and the borrower is unable to provide the resources needed to build that second house.

In a close universe, where there is just enough to build one house, lending to someone for the house to be built makes no sense. Either the guy who owns the resources to build the house (and he is supposed to own them to lend them) is able to build it for himself or he does not build it. 

This is of course worsens when you add interest in the making.

In a very smithian economics approach, some people in the US and elsewhere (including Ireland) were only used as vectors of demand to increase the consumption level.

People who are able to transfer the resources to build houses would generate a much lesser demand than if they offer other people to build the houses for them.

If a guy owns enough to build 10 millions houses, he is unlikely to generate enough to build those 10.

If he sells the project to 10 million people, he knows that the houses will get built. And if there is not enough resources to built the 10 million more needed to fill the gap of debt, the 10 million houses are automatically repossessed.


Defaulting can be a progressive process. We are already defaulting on the debt as some Irish people have discovered.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 11:10 | 746269 jaiball
jaiball's picture

From what I heard there was quite a mad rush to give a mortgage to anyone who could sign their name, as they could not get enough of them to throw into the MBS's. The whole deal with the liar loans, NINJAs etc it was evident that there was massive fraud in giving alot of people who shouldn't have qualified for loans a loan. Now whose fault is that? Are we saying that the average joe with very little knowledge of how these funky mortgages worked(regular people have lives where they don't have much time to read up on this sort of stuff, and usually trust people who say they are experts). Are they as culpable as the moneychangers would duped them into a loan they KNEW wasn't going to be paid back? Who's the one who forged the paperwork?

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 23:36 | 745466 beaufou
beaufou's picture

If this is what you truly believe, I suggest you post a real photo of yourself with your address. So you can show the Irish what a true man looks like and where to find him.

Who needs kneecaps anyhow.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 00:37 | 745544 Hedge Jobs
Hedge Jobs's picture

HarryWanker you are assuming the Irish are as stupid as Americans and they are not.

As history clearly demonstartes when they get shafted by their governments they dont just riot they start blowing things up.

I cant see why this latest and greatest shafting would be any different.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 01:31 | 745632 iconoclast63
iconoclast63's picture

You must have missed the story a few days ago about the "Real IRA" making a comeback to declare war on the banksters.

Your handle should be HarryWanker.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 01:34 | 745635 trav7777
trav7777's picture

this type of nation on nation usury leads to inevitable hitlers

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 05:23 | 745814 szjon
szjon's picture

Protests began last night outside the dail, ministers cars were blocked, one man was arrested, later the ministers cars were attacked by protestors resulting in scuffles with the garda. Nothing serious yet but there is a nationwide demo this saturday and they haven't told us what the cuts are yet. Will you please give us a chance!


And also, it is not me sitting here watching my currency being debased. When are YOU going to get up and get on with it. Seeing NOTHING coming out of America. Land of the fondled traveller and embroiled in the 4th expensive war you haven't won.


to take criticism from over the pond on our protesting credentials really takes the biscuit.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 06:50 | 745867 JJJones
JJJones's picture

Yes, Americans need to look in the mirror... although many of them will deny what they are seeing.

Listen to the commentary.  "they let you have just enough to keep you happy..."  "the owners are laughing at you..."  Perhaps that half-naked fat guy who is dancing around at the football game has found nirvana?

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 23:56 | 745500 samsara
samsara's picture

Not to worry Wang,

Just some more Financial "Chemtrails" 

No Financial "ICBM's" here.

Everyone,  "Don't Panic, Don't take off your shoes"


Sun, 11/21/2010 - 22:41 | 745328 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

Please change you avatar, Harry. A hammer and sickle may be more appropriate.

God save our Republic from the likes of you.

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 22:43 | 745339 nmewn
nmewn's picture


Sun, 11/21/2010 - 23:13 | 745424 Everyman
Everyman's picture

+1000  Good retort horseman.

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 23:27 | 745452 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

There's a difference?

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 22:56 | 745386 VeryDumbMoney
VeryDumbMoney's picture

What's a little sovereignty among friends?

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 22:58 | 745389 tmosley
tmosley's picture

"Life goes on" in North Korea too.  Everyone is working there too.  Sounds like your kind of paradise, eh Wang?

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 23:11 | 745422 Jake3463
Jake3463's picture

You should be disgusted with yourself. 

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 23:23 | 745446 HarryWanger
HarryWanger's picture

Why? I hear you guys whine every time there's a situation in Europe and listen to everyone tell us "just wait until the riots start here, blah, blah, blah..." And every time I post the same thing whenever anyone is rioting. Two days later it'll be forgotten. And they all end that way recently. 

BTW: You should have seen all the people at the packed mall today talking about QE2 and Ireland and tax hikes and.... 

Actually the only thing they all cared about was whether they should buy their iGadgets today or wait until Black Friday. 

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 23:46 | 745484 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Next time, ask them if they are charging up their credit cards in anticipation of strategic default.  This is what I am hearing from those who are actually spending.

Some buy the propaganda, but not many.  Honest men can't exist in a dishonest system.  People are rapidly realizing that.

Enjoy your stocks as they continuously devalue against specie.

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 23:48 | 745487 CD
CD's picture

Right... And thus all is as it should be, eh Harry? Nothing BAD can ever come of mindless overconsumption, because nothing HAS, especially not in the recent past, right?


On another note, a friend sent me an interesting gift idea (though I will NOT buy one, it's pretty funny):


BANCLOCK - An alarm clock and a coin bank all in one, it's a fun reminder of not-so-fun times. Designed to look like the national debt ticker, it cannot be shut off in the morning unless you deposit money into it.


Mon, 11/22/2010 - 00:10 | 745510 RoRoTrader
RoRoTrader's picture

Lots of flack up here Harry, but my take is you have an intuitive talent for accurately reading the thinking of the lower social common denominator - that is not a slight against you at all........more of a compliment since it is obviuos you have the ability to fly high - ZH - and low, among the mall people who care not for esoterics.

Nice range in your ability to analyse across socio/economic/intellectual classes.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 01:17 | 745608 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

I can think of $14Trillion reasons why denying reality is NOT gonna work in the long run -- wish I could still be optimistic, but I have two adult children to care about.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 01:36 | 745640 trav7777
trav7777's picture

You STUPID fucking fool.

I've been lots of places...the average Colombian has NO CLUE whatsoever that European banks RENT their fucking nation to them.

The average Argentine has NO IDEA how the State lost all their pensions, the banks were locked, and a lot of people's money vaporized. 

They're still getting FUCKED and you will be too.

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 22:36 | 745324 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

the universal legislative address (I noticed Harry's economic health meter has very low thresholds)

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 22:35 | 745327 Convolved Man
Convolved Man's picture

Everything is proceeding as planned.

Now get back to creating wealth and prosperity.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 05:42 | 745835 Peace is the x-axis
Peace is the x-axis's picture

For whom?

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 22:40 | 745334 Fred Hayek
Fred Hayek's picture

I want the over.

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 22:46 | 745346 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

I will take some of that action.  Never is a long time. 

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 22:41 | 745335 Cow
Cow's picture

This clip says it's from 12/11/09

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 22:42 | 745337 Tyler Durden
Tyler Durden's picture

"A year ago..."

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 22:49 | 745360 Cow
Cow's picture



Sun, 11/21/2010 - 22:49 | 745361 MonkeyMan
Sun, 11/21/2010 - 22:59 | 745392 Id fight Gandhi
Id fight Gandhi's picture

I saw that too. WTF?

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 01:25 | 745622 RockyRacoon
Mon, 11/22/2010 - 01:53 | 745668 MonkeyMan
MonkeyMan's picture

Dr. Evil must be up to some mischief. He shouldn't be fucking with the Kiwi's though - those guys will give him the bash!

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 07:15 | 745879 revenue_anticip...
revenue_anticipation_believer's picture

shows up better on the 5 minute....this kind of 'engineered technical glitch' getting to be routine....just long enough for someone/somewhere to make a winning bet, perhaps on another exchange, other side of the World - say 'cancelled' trades...


Sun, 11/21/2010 - 22:43 | 745342 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture
Irish Member of Parliament Foresaw The Truth: "We Are Screwed As A Country Because Of The Wrongdoing Of Others"


Sun, 11/21/2010 - 22:42 | 745338 PolishHammer
PolishHammer's picture

What can they do?  Nothing.  They can do nothing.


And nothing will happen in the US -- like Denninger with his millions would ever risk anything -- he's just ranting from his Florida mansion.


Unless people are starving or at risk of death, nothing will be done.  And there's enough food for everyone, TPTB will make sure of that.  And plenty of rifle butts for anyone who's complaining.


Enough with the "rise people" crap.  This is new normal.

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 22:48 | 745355 Eally Ucked
Eally Ucked's picture

Maybe you are a Hammer but for sure not Polish. Maybe some transplant!

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 22:57 | 745378 PolishHammer
PolishHammer's picture

Go see Poland these days, they are the biggest sheep in the world.


Hey and if you disagree with anything I wrote, please say what it is.

People need Dancing with the Stars and McDonalds.  As long as they get both they will not riot.

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 22:59 | 745393 Alienated Serf
Alienated Serf's picture

bigger sheep then 'merikans!?!

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 23:03 | 745403 PolishHammer
PolishHammer's picture

Yes, they actually are AGAINST private ownership of firearms.


I guess that really speaks for itself.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 05:30 | 745822 szjon
szjon's picture

Must be a different Poland from the one I used to live in, funny that, I was there this summer. They were just the same as before, making ends meet trying to get out of the blocks. Every one I spoke to knew what was going on, much more than the Irish or the Brits who I speak to on a daily basis.


Anti-semitism is growing fast in Poland, they seem to think this is a jewish conspiracy over there. I don't agree but when you see the names of people in high places it is hard to deny.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 06:43 | 745864 iota
iota's picture

I think there may be a serious spread of anti-semitism throughout Europe in the coming years.

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 23:11 | 745357 ViewfromUnderth...
ViewfromUndertheBridge's picture

I hope you are a way.

"Most people can see the picture: the bankers grease the politicians' palms, the politicians bail out the bankers with public funds, the bankers pay themselves fat bonuses and loan the money back to the public with interest. It's essentially a crime spree that benefits a social elite at the expense of many millions of victims."

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 23:15 | 745427 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

That must be the reason the nazi banksters are trembling on alleged intel reports of something going on over there. It's not moslem terrorists they fear, but Irish revenge squads.

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 23:13 | 745423 HarryWanger
HarryWanger's picture

I've been saying this for months. Every time there is something going on in Europe we see posts here saying, "shit's gonna hit the fan when....". Or "just wait until those riots start happening here.."

But nothing happens. And it won't until you take away the entertainment and cheap eats. As long as Joe Blow can buy cheap beer, drive thru McDonald's and turn the game on, he's fine. Take all of that away and maybe, just maybe something happens. Until then it won't.

And even if there would be a riot in a town near you, you only need to look toward Greece, France and the UK for the results of their recent riots. Back to business as usual in all three cases.

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 23:18 | 745436 PolishHammer
PolishHammer's picture

Thanks for keeping the place honest Harry.

One needs to take the world AS IT IS.

The only reason Lenin succeeded was that people were hungry.  People are not hungry now, and Dancing with the Stars is coming up.  No revolution now or ever.

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 23:38 | 745471 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Do you ever say anything that's actually true?

And I suppose the planned "Eric Cantona bank run" doesn't count in your world?

Go back to sleep, fool.

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 23:51 | 745492 tmosley
tmosley's picture

It hasn't happened, therefore it can never happen.

Here's hoping he's right.  If he is, that means we're all immortal!

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 00:30 | 745533 macholatte
macholatte's picture

Who could imagine that they'd freak out somewhere in Kansas



Mon, 11/22/2010 - 01:23 | 745618 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

America thought the same thing about Facism -- until Joseph McCarthy proved that it could.  Stanley Milgram's psychological experiment has proven that it can and will happen to any group of people, large or small.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 03:19 | 745743 revenue_anticip...
revenue_anticipation_believer's picture

Harry, "but nothing happens"... Tragic Sense of Life - Miguel De Unamuno

Faustian bargain?  in Denial, They 'junked' you over and over...the probable Cassandra/wrong sex...

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 03:47 | 745767 pyite
pyite's picture

But nothing happens. And it won't until you take away the entertainment and cheap eats.

People usually over-estimate change in the short term (but underestimate in the long term).  This stuff is quite abstract for just about everyone.

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 22:45 | 745345 lizzy36
lizzy36's picture

Portugal has alread come out and denied that they will need a bailout:

Portuguese President Anibal Cavaco Silva believes his country won't need a rescue package from the European Union nor from the International Monetary Fund, reports Spanish newspaper El Pais in its Monday Internet edition, without citing any sources.

Over/Under on Portugal bailout package:christmas.

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 22:56 | 745381 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

The Irish PM claimed the same thing just a few short days ago.

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 22:59 | 745391 nonclaim
nonclaim's picture

They have received money regularly since they joined the community. So, what is a little extra?... It seems, at this point, that it doesn't matter if a country is bankrupt or not. It's all Monopoly money, but not a game anymore.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 00:43 | 745558 Milestones
Milestones's picture

Lizzy, ever hear of the fishing term "chumming" the waters?  I like the way ya think on the over/under.   Milestones

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 07:49 | 745897 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 22:49 | 745359 lunaticfringe
lunaticfringe's picture

Man, I must be intellectually challenged. I keep having to solve math riddles to get on here. Fight club. Dude, where do you get these clips. That is some funny shit. I just wished the chamber had been full. Ireland is indeed fucked. The rape victims are always released to make the bankers more dough.

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 22:51 | 745364 Ignorance is bliss
Ignorance is bliss's picture

So when will China start offering Quid pro Quo bailouts. Kinda like the devil giving a free pass. By the time this gets to Spain and Italy. The Devil will look a whole lot more appealing then the austerity that Ireland and Greece will be subjected too.

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 22:53 | 745372 Clapham Junction
Clapham Junction's picture

I like the first part of your post better.  The second paragraph lacks clarity.

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 23:00 | 745397 lunaticfringe
lunaticfringe's picture


Mon, 11/22/2010 - 00:18 | 745520 Clapham Junction
Clapham Junction's picture

I'm beginning to sober up.

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 23:06 | 745411 fuu
fuu's picture

Well played.

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 23:16 | 745432 Everyman
Everyman's picture

Junction, I think you got it on the green and very close to the pin with that shot.

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 23:41 | 745476 snowball777
snowball777's picture

"The memorandum was one of 13 bilateral agreements signed by Greece and China on Saturday, after the arrival of the Chinese premier Wen Jiabao in Athens. The deal is part of a bilateral agreement for economic, industrial and technological cooperation and aims to support existing investments but also encourage new investments by both sides that introduce new areas of economic activity."

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 23:42 | 745477 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Enough with the shitty animation and text-to-speech dialogue, dingleberry.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 03:37 | 745758 revenue_anticip...
revenue_anticipation_believer's picture

i liked it...cute, just like the original....but nobody remembers the 2nd man to walk on the Moon...a great new genre
to work with...

thanks, (snowball has no sense of humor...)

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 22:53 | 745368 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

 "You can go to Hell, Hell, Hell"


Grow a fucking Pair.

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 22:52 | 745369 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

1. Iceland

2. Ireland

3. our land

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 22:55 | 745382 Tyler Durden
Tyler Durden's picture

iLand first. Apple will first get into the feudal business now that they have a green card to either repatriate the billions in cash or buy up bankrupt countries

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 23:05 | 745410 nonclaim
nonclaim's picture

Repatriation as corporate sponsored bail-out... interesting.

Welcome to the land of the iFree.

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 23:10 | 745417 BigDuke6
BigDuke6's picture

Aye , feudalism.

This is what the elites want a return to. 

With them at the top.

Frank Herbert's visions of the future still hold.

Semuta anyone?

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 01:43 | 745653 trav7777
trav7777's picture


How do people think GB got all the trappings of war without the war?  They used banking as an imperial tool to gut countries.

Out of the ashes of this always come strongman leaders of varying persuasions of genocidality.

So this is really IT?  A nation of moron "payment buyers" is going to submit to being rentier serfs to their homeland?

Really people should go to South America and see how the european corporations and banks own whole fucking countries.  They rent the nation to the people who live there.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 05:45 | 745836 Peace is the x-axis
Peace is the x-axis's picture


Sun, 11/21/2010 - 23:14 | 745426 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Thanks for all of your hard work Tyler. Hope we meet in person one day.


Sun, 11/21/2010 - 23:21 | 745442 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

Looking like they'll need a 2.0 on this one

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 22:52 | 745371 Ignorance is bliss
Ignorance is bliss's picture

So when will China start offering Quid pro Quo bailouts? Kind of like the devil giving a free pass. By the time this gets to Spain and Italy. The Devil will look a whole lot more appealing then the austerity that Ireland and Greece will be subjected to.

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 22:54 | 745377 BigDuke6
BigDuke6's picture

Little thing they say about great britain and ireland....

i'm sure you've got the similar guy in USA, except he's driving a pick up and packing a magnum .44....

the guy is the white van guy.  he drives about in his van doing his work and he's quite happy and will put up with a lot of crap as long as his beer is cheap, his wife doesn't nag him too much about the price of groceries and his fuel doesn't cost enough to affect the first two.

there are millions of these guys driving about.

and when they cant afford these things they will fucking cut the head off somebody.

a banker and politician would be their first target.

then immigrants and marxists.

then its deep shit.

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 23:21 | 745441 Everyman
Everyman's picture

BigDuke you got it right, and what amuses me the most is that the majority of American's don't see that either.

Payback will get ugly.  They will take shit, but only so much and then we get the "Going Postal" which is American as apple pie.

There are MILLIONS.

Bankers and Politicans lives aren't worth a boot full of warm piss if the crapola hits the air circulation device.  They will be taken out.

I am betting on the formation of a national militia.


Oh, and whoever junked you, probably has one of those "white van" guys in their close proxmity or need the "white van guy" when something breaks around the house.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 11:45 | 746362 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

funny, I'm thinking the warm piss analogy works in good times AND bad

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 00:04 | 745509 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

I know alot of these guys, in some parts of the US realize that he also has an AR-15 and a large stack of ammo at home as well as the 44 in the truck and a high powered scoped rifle that he is pretty good with. Im in the south where there are many millions of them.

They may change the order- the illegals and leftists first then the bankers and politicians but they are definitely getting pissed off.  I had to get to the rifle range at 7 am yesterday to be sure of a spot as its so crowded lately, its hunting season but most of what was being shot damn sure werent deer rifles.  Made my kids day when a friendly shooter in the next lane asked him if he would like to burn a clip with his new AR.

Johnny Reb 6 pack knows that something isnt right and is loading up accordingly out here. Its like forest creatures- they know when a storm is coming.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 02:28 | 745724 Mentaliusanything
Mentaliusanything's picture

Funny you should say that ...... I live about as South as you can get .... In Australia .. No guns except by permission (the crooks don't ask). The Belmont rifle range, Belmont Queensland was a sleepy hollow. Now its packed night and day. I mean Thousands a week keep in practice, Strange days indeed. I have to book 2 weeks in advance.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 03:28 | 745751 AUD
AUD's picture

Ranges are good for sighting in your scope but accurate shooting in the field cannot be compared to off of a bench rest.

Plus, shooting targets cannot be compared to actually killing an animal. The military trains its people using realistic shoot-em up computer game type systems since it has been found that those trained using 'un-lifelike' targets are often hesitant to 'pull the trigger'.

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 22:54 | 745379 Clapham Junction
Clapham Junction's picture

I'm telling you guys, Prechter is going to be right............

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 22:56 | 745387 putbuyer
putbuyer's picture

About what?

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 23:01 | 745400 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Very little.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 00:15 | 745517 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

A broken clock is always right twice a day.

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 22:55 | 745383 putbuyer
putbuyer's picture

There are kill switches, but no one in doing them except Max K. All the bloggers must be on board for these things to work. I have always said that BAC is the head of the snake. Cut it's head and we have victory. We need to have a run on BAC.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 00:26 | 745529 bonin006
bonin006's picture

Be careful. The head can still bite you for an hour after you cut it off. Maybe much longer than an hour for something as large as BAC.


Sun, 11/21/2010 - 22:59 | 745395 Eureka Springs
Eureka Springs's picture

So how much did we give the IMF to bail out Irish banksters?

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 23:06 | 745408 Id fight Gandhi
Id fight Gandhi's picture

Irish? This isn't the irish as the video said....

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 23:04 | 745405 malalingua
malalingua's picture

say these words outloud:  whale, oil, beef, hooked!

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 23:08 | 745413 Wily Wonka
Wily Wonka's picture

Futures rally on the news... LOL


The Mayans, The Romans, The French Revolution....


The end games nears Zerohedge!

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 23:10 | 745415 Wily Wonka
Wily Wonka's picture

HarryWanger please stop posting every 2 minutes on every topic. Seriously son, go enjoy life while you can!

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 23:10 | 745418 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Your not screwed. Your awake and aware of the next chess move. This same playbook will arrive in the US soon. Heads up lemmings.


Sun, 11/21/2010 - 23:14 | 745428 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

The EU takes over another country without a vote or a shot fired. Amazing ... going along as if this were the plqn all along.

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 23:15 | 745430 JimboJammer
JimboJammer's picture

It  is  not  safe  anymore  working  at  a  major bank ...

If  you  do  work  at  one  of  these  major  banks,

you  should  quit ,  and  work  somewhere  else..

these  big  banks  that  caused  these  problems

are  the  target ....

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 01:05 | 745589 Treason Season
Treason Season's picture

It appears Lenihan and Cowen have pinned targets on their backs. 

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 23:16 | 745431 max2205
max2205's picture

Fu k the TSA and IMF.

500 bullets is all it takes

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 23:24 | 745448 doolittlegeorge
doolittlegeorge's picture

Welcome to "Black Friday week."  What a surprising start to our holiday season.

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 23:28 | 745453 PolishHammer
PolishHammer's picture

In before Robot and parabolic BESTBUY etc. graphs.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!