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Irony: Our Huge Military Is What Made Us an Empire ... But Our Huge Military is What Is Bankrupting Us, Thus DESTROYING Our Status as an Empire
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As I've previously pointed
out, America's military-industrial complex is ruining our economy.
And
U.S. military and intelligence leaders say that the economic crisis is
the biggest national security threat to the United States. See this,
this
and this.
As
RT points out, it is ironic that America's huge military spending is
what made us an empire ... but our huge military is what is bankrupting
us ... thus destroying our status as an empire:
No
wonder people from opposite ends of the political spectrum like Barney Frank
and Ron Paul are calling for a reduction in military spending.
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You could say that about anything. Even our conversation.
Humans want to live a rich, satisfying life beyond food, clothing, shelter. To do that, humans need resources, mostly energy.
I'm telling you that U.S. Military spending directly improves the quality of life in your home; it directly provides you with wealth. The U.S. Military does this through exploration and aqusition of resources. However, you, along with an increasing number of Americans, completly disregard any notion that the DOD might do something in your best interest. This reciprocating anomosity towards your watchmen does absolutely nothing but further deteroirates the effectiveness of U.S. military operations.
I also like how you observe that 100% "U.S. military spending" is simply weapons production. Historians know it's a lot more then bombs and bullets so I won't provide a laundry list of humanitarian and technological advancements U.S Military spending has provided to the world.
Try going a day without products aquired by the U.S. Military. Show me how that Juche thing is working out for you...
Extremely good point. The history of human technological invention has been driven by the desire for military advantage over other people.
For a very relevant example, we wouldn't have an internet if not for ARPENET, funded by DARPA, to create a robust network of computers capable of sharing information and surviving an attack on any one node of that network. So none of us would be posting these comments right now if not for the military/industrial complex.
I've been on this Internet ride since way before it got popular. And I can assure you that the biggest reason it has taken off isn't defense spending. It's good old PORN spending.
Most of the supporting technology that makes up the web isn't from DARPA, it's from people who were able to "monetize" the warm, steamy stream of porno.
Forget war, give masturbation the recognition it deserves for making the web part of our lives.
It is funny you mention the DRRK's Juche Idea while essentially advocating Songun, Kim Jong-Il's military first policy.Are you trying to be hilarious in a gnostic way?If so kudos!
If not, a truly Epic Fail.
C'mon now.
The concept of Juche, as taught to citizens of North Korea, and the policies and practical application of the regime are quite different.
Kinda like "central banking" and "free-market".
I'm not advocating Kim Jong-Il's military first policy, because I don't appreciate the lifestyle North Koreans live. Nor do I like fighting. I'm advocating the acceptance of the United States Military policy because it provides us with resources to grow our economy.
You live in the developed world. The U.S. military was a major actor (probably the leading role) in developing that world.
My point still stands. If you really don't like U.S. global hedgemony through military operations, then try Juche (self-reliance) and see what it's like.
The most direct benefit of our military is the military industrial complex.I am including big oil in that.Notice that we have exported most of our industrial capacity?The short term profit to do this was large and it also enabled a tiny group of people to get rich in the long term from it.Please look at our current unemployment rate as well as the bread lines(oops, I meant food stamps).The actions of the military help the "little guy" only in the most indirect sense.The "little guy" would like a job.It would be nice if it had good benefits and only one person in the house working could easily support the family.
But no worries.The very wealthiest segment of the population is doing great!Make no mistake...they are your masters, not some guy like me.I am a slave just like you.In the military, a very important part of your job is to follow orders.I do too.I have to pay my taxes...or else.Our Treasury secretary is exempt from this rule, because he is a part of the ruling class.We don't have a representative republic anymore.We live under a oligarchy...make no mistake, that is the power you most directly serve.
And that fact makes your protestations seem as irrelevant and empty as they are.
And you don't directly benefit from massively subsidized food, energy, and amazing purchasing power?
I know the politicians/industrial complex/big oil/corporations have it better then you and I. They probably worked harder, were smarter, or just got luckier then us. But Developed Nationals still got it pretty fucking good. Keep those troops deployed and those capesize tankers sailing. Sorry, I don't want to go back to 1700.
Myzery, you claim that we are all beneficiaries of our military, but I don't see where you actually prove this by looking at claims and counter-claims and assessing each. You assert something that seems plausible to you (and even to me in a limited sense), but plausibility is not proof. You might start by explaining why the other so-called prosperous first world countries in the world seem to enjoy a standard of living equal to ours and better than ours in many respects. (I'm sure you will say that their prosperity is due to our military.) The other salient thing you seem to ignore is that our economy has fallen/is falling off a cliff and we can no longer afford trillion dollar wars.
Furthermore, how precisely have we gotten loot from Iraq? Do we even get our oil from Iraq? I'm not an expert in geopolitics by any means, but I fail to see that you've done any more than assert something that seems plausible on the surface, may have been true for a limited period after WWII, but is increasingly doubtful now. Indeed, it may be inferred from your argument that there would be no real point in doing a cost/benefit analysis of military spending. Almost similar to the position of those who might make a similar argument that we have benefited from having the Fed and there is no real point in conducting an audit of the Fed.
My apologies. I post my thoughts on a brutal truth most people can't seem to accept as the basis for why our economic/military/political system are structured as such and I'm supposed to respond to every comment?
What do wars cost? How many dollars does it take to build an aircraft carrier? Is it cheaper, or more expensive to build an aircraft carrier once you already have one? (I'm using figurative aircraft carriers here)
No, we don't. =( Why do you think we sent troops over there?
(BRUTAL TRUTH: If political support, i.e. defense budget for the middle east efforts, Developed Nations might not get any.)
If it appears that way then, I've been unclear. I'm still busy trying to find out the numerators and the denominators in this equation.
All of the research GW posted specifically focuses only on the cost aspect (flaw #1). It measures this cost in U.S. Dollars, a direct descendant of military hegemony (flaw #2). I believe these two fundamentals flaws make the body of research entirely ineffective at answering the question how big should our military be?
Until you accept that everything you are, your culture, your education, your car/house, your family, is a product of excess oil reserves (mostly exploited by American military hegemony) then the quicker and more accurately you'll be able to perform cost/benefit analysis.
Yuri Orlov: There are over 550 million firearms in worldwide circulation. That's one firearm for every twelve people on the planet. The only question is: How do we arm the other 11?
Think how much more iPad crap we could make instead!
BTW, GW All I love your informative posts. Your a great aggregator of facts. Keep it up.
I just happen to disagree that "U.S. Military spending is destroying our country."
Rather, I'm of the mindset, "U.S. Military spending is the last thing holding our economy together."
This PhD makes a HUGE assumption:
These 'standard' models assume ALL defense spending provides ZERO returns. I'm questioning this assumption because clearly U.S. Policy makers do not make this same assumption. We aren't in Iraq for the fuck of it. We are there to bring back loot.
There are massive leveraged returns provided by energy, markets, and resource deposits 'aquired' by U.S. Military. Almost impossible to quantify in dollars, but real nonetheless.
(Soldiers and contractors get paid in dollars, so there is that multiplier fact too.)
All the soldiers who died in Vietnam 40 years ago are providing us with cheap south-east asian sweat shop labor today. (I feel total evil for even observing this phenomon but it's true.)
The second flawed assumption is that he measures in dollars, when it should be measured in purchasing power (or more practically, energy). Does anyone actually think that global military presence decreases the purchasing power of the dollar?
Note: I think we can 'spend' less on the military, and still achive similar gains. We just need to be smart about it, and make sure the best and brightest people are running this country.
How much oil do we import again?
You simply cannot deny the ERoEI of U.S. Military 'exports'. It's the greatest 'product' ever made.
"We just need to be smart about it, and make sure the best and brightest people are running this country."
Sorry, but I don't want any of YOUR puppets "running this country."
Just your own puppets, eh? I luuurve Washington's threads - if RED meat is raw, then BLUE meat is ripe and then some. GW, you are talented enough for a Gold Glove, no doubt, but you do have a tendency to drop the ball as soon as you step out of left field. As much as ZH draws attention to the futility of the left/right paradigm, it still serves up a hell of a mudpit to mosh in every so often.
Have at it proggies - here's my parting shot and I'm out. DEFENSE WILL BE CUT (Yea!), but so will every farkin' little Great Society POS that you hold near & dear. ALL OF IT. The math hath decreed. Read today's Denninger, this is one of those occasions where he is concise and irrefutable. Everyone's cows will be slaughtered. But we know which way the wind will blow the inevitable false flags...
Denninger is a pleasure to read and I appreciate his views. The only thing that bothers me is his incessant desire for the world to do right and for people to be fair and act rationally. It is not and they won't -- ever.
The fallacy that others will act in MY best interest must be exposed. I found a clearly laid out proposal for allowing for these delusions.
Edward Harrison then goes on to lay out these ideas. Here are the main points, but the details are worth reading.
Assume an unlevel playing field:
Assume regulations are inadequate:
Assume markets fail.
Assume regulators will be captures:
double penetration
Your use of "our" is interesting. Your inclusiveness of others into the "our" without their consent is also interesting. It might surprise you that others do not wish to be assets of a corporation whose SOP is world poisoning and destruction. They would much rather live a life at arms length, rather than one that is projected around the world. Be that as it may we are here and now, so we are searching for not the "now" (which is failing), but the future.
You are correct when you say that our big swinging dick is the only thing keeping it together. It is also not a way that many would choose as a lifestyle. To have bread on my table as a result of a gun in the back of the rest of the world. I guess you do, so please have a great day.
I apologize. I guess your either not 'one of us', or I wasn't clear so I'll attempt to define. "Our" is anyone who benefits from U.S. global hedgemony.
Then 'others' shouldn't reap the benefits, nor complain when they do. You CAN have your cake, and eat it too... but then don't tell me the cake sucks and you didn't want it.
I highly dispute the U.S.'s SOP is 'poison and destruction' but this is clearly a matter of perspective, isn't it? Military operations would be A LOT less expensive if that was the case. (We'd fire and forget instead of occupy and influence.) Regardless of your moral viewpoint, my point stands fast. The U.S. economy is better off because of continued U.S. military hedgemony. This correlation is certainly having diminishing returns and won't last forever but it's still positive.
I'm intrgued. Are you saying theres a better way to exploit world resources for 'our' gain? Please do share.
Thanks. I really do enjoy cheap gas, freedom of information over the internet, an abundance of fresh agriculture, lack of regular terroist threats, and my iPhone.
I know there's a better way. It just requires too many sacrafices from too many individuals. Our economy can't sacrafice. It's built on the premise of exponetial growth. Human nature dictates that we'd all rather drive a flaming bus full of strippers and coke off a cliff then slowly waddle off the cliff in a horse cart.
Your gripe isn't with U.S. Military. Your gripe is with human nature, and the constraints of living on a spherical planet.
Sorry, for a moment there I thought you were talking about Canada.
Since poverty is defined as some lowest level percentile of the population, the bottom 17 per cent let's say, the Biblical injunction of blessed are the poor for they shall always be with you is now a governmental statistical certainty by definition and therefore the War on Poverty can never be "won".
what bible???? you mean "blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs is the kingdom of heaven?" Matt 5:3; that refers to spiritual humility, not material wealth.
More likely this:
Matthew 19:24 "And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."
Yuri Orlov: You know who's going to inherit the world? Arms dealers. Because everyone else is too busy killing each other.
Last I checked the defense budget grew linearly and was voted on every single year. Medicare, Social Security and other entitlement programs are growing exponentially and are not even subject to discretionary vote.
GW you fail.
dashingdwl, you've asserted the main relevant fact. All can be trimmed, but the runaway imbalance between FICA taxes payed and benefits received is what has broken the bank. Of course the average guy wants the Medicare and Social Security in excess of payments (plus time value of the money) to come out of the "general" fund. You know, the fund the other guy pays for. Sweden taxes much more for social programs, but it hits the little guy too. No "40% don't pay any tax" in Sweden. Rates get steep very low on the income ladder. They do triage, too. And you don't get every medicine or operation, just the ones they think are "justifiable," cost-effective. That's not a criticism. They are sensible.
yes and their army isn't half way round the world growing "terrorists" far faster than it can kill them (debt to d. rumsfeld acknowledged)
No their armies aren't, agreed. They stopped sending armies abroad when they started losing, early in the 19th century. However, they accepted (secretly until 1991) US nuclear-missile submarines in their western bays, so long as the US promised to launch when the Soviets were still in Finland and Estonia. They sell more weapons per capita than the US does. They sold to both sides of the last world war. They shot down US reconaissance planes during WWII, while lending their west coest railroad to the Germans occupying Norway. Life is complicated. And now al Quaeda tries to attack the Norwegians, Swedes, Danes, and Dutch anyway. Lovely countries, all, underserving of terror attacks. War is the baseline state of human cultures. Who knows that better than the Afghans? Imperial intrusions only serve, there, to interrupt the endless battles between incredibly barbaric brutal local war-lords.
These wars are not going to stop until the parasites (politicians/military industrial complex) have killed their host (taxpayers/USA).
Technically a parasite that kills it's host is more like a cancer, irrational growth that kills itself because it kills it's host
defense only approx 20 % of budget
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=1258
if you view FICA withdrawals from paycheck and Soc Security and Medicare payments as a closed, trust fund system...and then look at both current military costs, plus the long-term costs of services to Veterans etc....then Defense is more 50 percent of where Federal income taxes go
And the interest payments on the national debt go to the rentier class. Have we got a good thing going, or what?
more guns than butter equals empire collapse.
The forever wars have made a small number of people enormously wealthy. Ike tried to warn us.
I love seeing the squeeky clean actors on the Boeing commercial on PBS----"We know what we're doing for America..." Sexy pix of expensive weapons/technology---smiling faces, soldiers with their game faces on.
How are we getting our asses kicked so handily? The average American wont understand how foolhardy this has become until he/she loses their job, home, family. Tragic.
Exactly. Hundred billion dollar weapon systems abound but we're losing to illiterate teenagers with AKs.
If you've ever seen those videos of the Peshwar weapon shops, that same AK probably contains some iron from spearheads carried by Alexander's armies. This place has been nothing but a dark stone upon which empires have been broken for centuries now.
Whenever a general talks about doing a 'surge', I always think: you could surge a million men for a century and it wouldn't make a bit of difference in the eventual outcome.
harry reid and mr kerry have requested your phone #
Just a simple question for you, then, should be answerable in one sentence: What are the victory conditions for Afghanistan and Iraq?
ZackAttack,
I'll answer for NotW777: Probably thinks it has something to do with 'freeing' the Afghanis from the Taliban, and Iraq from, um, well he's not exactly sure. IE he's a domeless wonderboy.
To quote NotW777 from a previous comment:
"...but that fact is inconvenient to the point he is trying to make." Inane though it may be.
Regards
I'm with you on that, Mr. G You reap what you sow. Ironic that we followed the same road that did in the once mighty Soviet Union. I feel sorry for the youth of America.
The World's explosive population growth during a period of resource depletion was partly to blame, but American's willingness to 'buy in' to conspicuous consumption (and that seems to be our sole export) and this maniacal 'war on terror' has hastened Global economic demise.
your "with him?" where are you guys - in a mosque?
"maniacal [sic] war on terror?"
why sic on maniacal? dictionary: wildly disordered, frenzied. sounds utterly convincing. and probably no as to the mosque. and therein lies the problem for you and your allies (only dependable mideast, etc.). more and more "regular" even "redneck" americans are beginning to understand the horrific price we have paid, are paying and, without real "change" will pay for our blind subservience to the world view of the neo-cons/likudniks/israel firsters.
Everything below defense, Medicaid/Medicare and social security is just noise.
You could add up every cabinet-level department and they wouldn't equal any of these.
Pick one. To me, defense is a no-brainer to cut.
The Forever Wars have accomplished absolutely nothing. I can't even remember the last time anyone even tried to articulate what would constitute 'victory' anymore.
Pac Rim is easy to cut. $18b to defend Japan against what, exactly? They don't want us there and we have no need whatsoever to be there. While we're at it, let China worry about Korea. Hell, cut the Chinese a deal - debt forgiveness in return for Taiwan.
DHS. $45b annually going to $60b, for exactly how many arrests? So that a Nigerian on the no-fly list, whose father warned us about him, can buy a one-way ticket to Detroit with cash, get on a plane without luggage or a passport and only be stopped by a stewardess and a Dutch student. Waste of time and money, useless jobs. Cut it off at the knees.
I think it's a good thing that the "empire" is being destroyed. An empire was definitely NOT what the Constitution or the guys who wrote it intended. Indeed, they were themselves fleeing from one!
USA = British Empire Part II
Simple as that.
There is some beauty in the system, GG. It is designed to fall apart when it deviates from its intended function/structure/goal. And it is falling apart.
The only ones who benefit from imperialism are the same fascist scum who print the money: the international bakster elite.
Every one of the CIAs coups overseas have been tied to money (usually Rockefeller money) not "communism".
yeah, we took out the popular, rational, not-overly religious leader of Iran, Mossadeq because he was nationalizing oil in his country...he wasn't even asking foreign oil companies to leave, just to give more of the oil money to the country that owned the reserves...we put in the Shah, who repressed, and then Iranian Revolution was a reaction to that, the hardline religious folks hijacked that revolution and committed way more tyranny than Shah could have dreamed of...this, of course, has all worked out so well for Americans in general, and for Iranians also (sarcasm)....
however, Americans have benefitted greatly form imperialism...check out US econ. stats and per capita levels of wealth before and after WWII compared to UK..., after WWII, we essentially inherited Europes and Japan's colonies and got their natural resources for cheap...look at how much more US consumes per capita compared to rest of world...we benefitted, materially, at least, of course...not as much now, but still, most Americans way better off than most of world and a good bit of that is due to our imperialism
There's a term for this: "imperial overstretch".
And it's absolutely true. We seem to be headed down the same well trodden road of other fallen empires.
Social programs are a pretty big part of the budget too! Add 'em all up and understand the current reality.