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Israeli Defense Forces Release Video Of Violence Aboard Turkish Ship
The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) - Naval Forces has released a recording, and their summarized version of events that transpired in real-time on board the assaulted Turkish ship early this morning. Obviously, this is just one side of the story - we would certainly appreciate Wikileaks' or some other independent arbiter's perspective on how the other side was interpreting the situation as it was developing, and resulting in over 16 casualties so far. One wonders how many Israeli soldiers were killed during the clash? Warning: video is graphic.
Here is the official statement from the IDF NF on the tragic events from last night:
Early this morning, IDF Naval Forces boarded six ships attempting to break the maritime closure of the Gaza Strip. This happened after numerous warnings from Israel and the Israeli Navy that were issued prior to the action. The Israel Navy requested the ships to redirect toward Ashdod where they would be able to unload their aid supplies which would then be transferred over land after undergoing security inspections.
During the boarding of the ships, the demonstrators onboard attacked the IDF Naval personnel with live fire and light weaponry including knives and clubs. Additionally one of the weapons used was grabbed from an IDF soldier. The demonstrators had clearly prepared their weapons in advance for this specific purpose.
As a result of this life-threatening and violent activity, naval forces employed riot dispersal means, as well as live fire.
According to initial reports, these events resulted in the deaths of nine demonstrators and seven naval personnel were injured, some from gunfire and some from various other weapons. Two of the soldiers are moderately wounded and the remainder sustained light injuries. All of the injured, Israelis and foreigners have been evacuated by helicopter to hospitals in Israel.
Reports from IDF forces on the scene are that it seems as if part of the participants onboard the ships were planning to lynch the forces.
The interception of the flotilla followed numerous warnings given to the organizers of the flotilla before leaving their ports as well as while sailing towards the Gaza Strip. In these warnings, it was made clear to the organizers that they could dock in the Ashdod sea port and unload the equipment they are carrying in order to deliver it to the Gaza Strip in an orderly manner, following the appropriate security checks. Upon expressing their unwillingness to cooperate and arrive at the port, it was decided to board the ships and lead them to Ashdod.
IDF naval personnel encountered severe violence, including use of weaponry prepared in advance in order to attack and to harm them. The forces operated in adherence with operational commands and took all necessary actions in order to avoid violence, but to no avail.
Early this morning, IDF Naval Forces boarded six ships attempting to break the maritime closure of the Gaza Strip. This happened after numerous warnings from Israel and the Israeli Navy that were issued prior to the action. The Israel Navy requested the ships to redirect toward Ashdod where they would be able to unload their aid supplies which would then be transferred over land after undergoing security inspections.
During the boarding of the ships, the demonstrators onboard attacked the IDF Naval personnel with live fire and light weaponry including knives and clubs. Additionally one of the weapons used was grabbed from an IDF soldier. The demonstrators had clearly prepared their weapons in advance for this specific purpose.
As a result of this life-threatening and violent activity, naval forces employed riot dispersal means, as well as live fire.
According to initial reports, these events resulted in the deaths of nine demonstrators and seven naval personnel were injured, some from gunfire and some from various other weapons. Two of the soldiers are moderately wounded and the remainder sustained light injuries. All of the injured, Israelis and foreigners have been evacuated by helicopter to hospitals in Israel.
?Reports from IDF forces on the scene are that it seems as if part of the participants onboard the ships were planning to lynch the forces.??The interception of the flotilla followed numerous warnings given to the organizers of the flotilla before leaving their ports as well as while sailing towards the Gaza Strip. In these warnings, it was made clear to the organizers that they could dock in the Ashdod sea port and unload the equipment they are carrying in order to deliver it to the Gaza Strip in an orderly manner, following the appropriate security checks. Upon expressing their unwillingness to cooperate and arrive at the port, it was decided to board the ships and lead them to Ashdod.??
IDF naval personnel encountered severe violence, including use of weaponry prepared in advance in order to attack and to harm them. The forces operated in adherence with operational commands and took all necessary actions in order to avoid violence, but to no avail.
Full video:
An "on the ground" perspective provided by Al Jazeera indicates a materially different interpretation of events:
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The world needs a radical Israel-ectomy. Cut out the cancer!
You need a lobotomy. Cut out teh stupid.
Hey, stupid, you misspelled 'The stupid'. Fracking moron.
enjoy dbag
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teh
This reminds me a bit of the tactics of many libertarian and radical left-wing protesters.
Provoking the state into attacking you is a wretched strategy.
When I meet with cops or other bureaucrats, I'm just unfailingly polite and deferential. Fucking with the brutes just gets you sent to the pokey.
+ 1
There it is, spot on comment. Don't mess with the big rhino.
Are you people really this simple? It must be nice being so obliviously naive.
No, Israel never provokes or attacks. It is always--ALWAYS--reacting to a provocation or attack from the otherside.
Hasbara 101.
I am Chumbawamba.
Chumba, are you of the opinion that Israel provoked these Activists to run a blokade of Gaza? And if past actions are the "reason", then how far in history does one go? Thanks for your thoughtful and eloquent, if not venomous, answer.
Let's see: Israel has blockaded Gaza for over two years now, starving its inhabitants, killing thousands with direct bombardment and attrition, restricted all manner of building materials and day to day necessities. Yeah, you'd pretty much have to be brain-dead to not see that as a provocation.
History goes back to 1948 when the White Man carved Israel out of Palestines and gave it to the Jews fleeing the holocaust in Europe.
I am Chumbawamba.
I never said Israel has clean hands. I never said Israel never provokes or attacks. History is clear that Israel has done all of that.
My point of agreement with Apostate is that when in non-critical procedures with .gov, it is best to be polite. Get all huffy at DMV? May not get your registration that day. Get into an argument when the cop stops you? Might not end well.
Common sense. Just like buying gold is common sense.
A foreign army occupies your land, kills your family, demolishes your home. But be polite or else you won't get through the checkpoints in the morning.
You don't understand the issue. Stop digging.
I am Chumbawamba.
Hmmm...libertarian and left-wing protesters wrapped into the same sentence. I see what you are saying... that John Stossel fellow and his cohort Judge Napolitano are a WHACKOs. Watch out for those crazy libertarians!!! Or did you mean to say anarchists?
I'm at least 10x more radical than John Stossel or Napalitano.
I disagree on the tactics. I've seen it backfire too many times to advocate them. It's about philosophy, not street-fighting.
Sadly, it always seems to end in the street fighting. Before they were streetfighting with chariots. Big improvement: now we can streetfight with Iphones. I feel much better now.
The advance of mankind:
Start Brutal murderers
Middle Brutal murderers
End Brutal murderers
Hmmm.....looks like a pattern.
Pretty much.
"And now back to our regularly scheduled programming."
The advance of mankind:
Start Brutal murderers
Middle Brutal murderers
End Brutal murderers
Hmmm.....looks like a pattern.
+1000
"Provoking the state into attacking you is a wretched strategy."
I would say that depends on your desired outcome. Any event that has 10+ "peaceful" protesters getting waxed public like, that usually is labelled _______ massacre, can be pretty useful in manipulating the actions of a mass of people.
Boston Massacre
'Bloody Sunday' massacre
September Massacres
etc...
Turkey just bonded with Iran ..they must comply with their standards!!!
Yeah.
I'm a moral person. I'd have to be a sociopath to advocate that other people die for me and my ideology. You give up the moral high ground when you send teenagers to die for you.
My Irish ancestors did the smart thing when confronted with English imperialism - they got the fuck out of town.
+1
Hi folks any updates on the Koreas?
I just heard BB some stealth fighter jets were sent to that region...
The President of Tristan da Cunha has just declared war on the Shetland Islands over an old fishing claim to take advantage of the other theatres of conflict while the world is distracted. Pitcairn Island has fallen into the Non-Aligned fold with the ZOMBIE nations, i.e. Zambia, Oman, Mauritius, Bhutan, Iceland and Ecuador. Tuvalu's parliament is split on which way they will vote. Sao Tome and Principe has not received any of this news yet. In any case they are likely to side with Cape Verde in any larger alliance. Kim Jong Il has just shot another record 32 under par round of golf and is working out his next step.
Why is it that I feel like I'm watching a pre-scripted show, with the master puppeteers pulling strings behind the curtains...
"I say we take off and nuke the site from orbit, it's the only way to be sure."
This world's "rulebook" is being tossed out the window. Everywhere you look you see the niceties (like contract law, prompt corrective action, law enforcement in general, the concept of international waters, NATO etc...) are melting like snow in the sun.
Soon, the only rules left will be survival and power. This world is descending into chaos, and war/civil unrest/rebellion are coming on a scale not seen before.
Excellent point, CC. So much for the calm before the storm.
Ah... one can only hope. Back to more important stuff Who won the Indy 500 and were there any cool wrecks?
And so, the search for Intelligent life in outer space continues to be fruitless (hint: You have to recognize what you're looking for!) -- "The Politicians say, 'More Taxes' will solve everything!" ["Ball of Confusion"]
So the kids they dance and shake their bones, 'cause it's all too clear we're on our own -- Ashes to ashes all fall down" - Grateful Dead
Junkers gone wild on this post. WTF?
Food fight!
We have a Level 5 Zionist infestation. Quick! Someone threaten to take away their foreign aid. That will repel them until we come up with a better plan.
I am Chumbawamba.
damn , Howard you got junked just for being here. Dont any of us dare have an opinion or say about it. But it highlights how strong emotions are running. Whatever feelings i may have, its common sense and facts i base decisions on. Facts indicate Israel is in practice an enemy of the USA and the USA gives Israel more support than california .
So who own/runs the USA? GS,Bildeburg or Israel? It sure aint us, the people! The more i learn, the more it lights a fire under my ass.
Just so all you folks know...I have never hated in my entire life because i see an underlying unity in all of us and have seen the peoples of the world as my family. The survival instinkts in me are rising and i am becoming a mere human in my views. All as it should be.
Buy food to last at least a year. Know your neighbors.
You don't know what you are missing on the HATE scene. We are talking REAL passions here. Try it some time. I can get you a beginners list if you need it.
As far as I can tell, any post on ZH containing any or all of the words "Jews", "Zionists" or "Israel" is almost guaranteed to be junked to hell, regardless of the actual content (including which "side" it's on). It's an extremely divisive issue, and one on which many people really believe everyone who disagrees with them to be despicable. I have no interest in passing judgment. It's perfectly obvious to me both that over the course of the last half-century a considerable assortment of war crimes have been committed by both Israelis and Palestinians towards one another, and that a genuine two state solution is the only one with any chance of being sustainable. I also fear that the suspicion and in some cases hatred on both sides may have become so entrenched as to make it impossible for either side to make the concessions that it clearly must for lasting peace to be a possibility. That is a tragedy, and arguing about who is most to blame for it will exacerbate the situation, not ameliorate it.
I wish it were that simple, but the fact remains that Israel is a colonial outpost established by Western powers to be an attack dog when the A-rabs get out of line. A two-state solution will never work because Israel doesn't want that. They want it all. They're God's Chosen People after all. Why the hell should they share THEIR land with those dirty heathen A-rabs?
I wish I had a nickel for everytime someone posts a message like yours, because then I'd own all of you ten times over.
Look, you've all been had. In this case, the history is not hidden away in government archives waiting for the obligatory 50 year period to elapse so we can all learn the dirty secrets. The reality of the matter is as plain as day, and all the information you need to understand that Israel is a cancer on humanity is out in the open for you to read. Anyone in this day and age, with all the information available, who still sides with Israel is either a) retarded, b) evil or c) both.
I am Chumbawamba.
+1.
When pirates attack a vessel they expect to have a friendly greeting?
The people on the ships were within their legal rights to use all force necessary to repel these criminals from the IDF.
LOL yes Gilligan
I love the Israeli video highlighting the fact that the Turks threw an IDF stun grenade at the boarders.
No one can match Israelis for hubris and hypocrisy on this planet.
Except for their supporters.
I am Chumbawamba.
That was an idiotic move by Israeli propaganda apparatchiks.
But I would not compare the IDF to pirates... they are much better equiped and trained.
In the US, the point of view that some have a legitimate right to defense when attacked and others dont is common.
Duplicity is the legacy of the US to the world.
Is that anything like resisiting in Waco or Ruby Ridge. Just asking.
Pro-Hamas "peace activists" in action. What apparently was supposed to be a propaganda stunt against Israel by an alliance of islamists and European "left" anti-zionists ends deadly. This can happen if you are a lynch mob and attack IDF-soldiers with ion pipes, knives, and guns. Bad PR for Israel, though.
Ion pipes? Iron pipes.
I bet one could do some real damage with Ion pipes.
So, trying to bring food and supplies to a destroyed country under the brutal oppression and occupation of a foreign invader is a "stunt".
Look, douche, Tony Karon is the Rootless Cosmopolitan. You're just a douchebag with a bad haircut and body odor.
I am Chumbawamba.
Do you KNOW what's on those ships?! No, you are assuming and guessing. All the Israilies said they wanted was to inspect the cargo. Once you bring history into the discussion, how far back do you have to go to find "root cause"?
Look at all the videos, there are about 15 total, one of them shows the soldiers pulling warheads out of one of the crates. He holds it in his hands for the camera to see. Kinda fishy if you are an aid ship, and you got warheads onboard.
If PR wasn't at least a significant part of the objective, why not simply land the supplies at Ashdod and submit to inspection?
And can you really not contemplate the notion that someone might disagree with you without necessarily being an asshat?
Because I've seen this game played over and over and over again, and that's a red herring issue.
Disagree all you want, but you'd be wrong. The reason they're asshats is because they are egregiously wrong, and a little time spent researching and reading up on Palestine will make that painfully obvious.
I am Chumbawamba.
LOL. You bring some really convincing arguments.
1. Barely any people in crisis and war zones in this world get as much humanitarian aid by the UN, the EU and international organization as the Palestinians in Gaza. Humanitarian goods are delivered from Israel to Gaza all the time. Compare this with other crisis zones in this world (e.g., Sudan), where the human suffering is of magnitudes larger than the one of the Palestinians in Hamastan (whose rulers openly pursue the goal to eliminate Israel by force, violence, and war).
2. Israel offered that the humanitarian goods on the ships can get unloaded in an Israeli port and be transfered to Gaza.
3. The "humanitarian fleet" was organized by an alliance of groups with islamist affiliation and left "Anti-Zionists". Hamas-sympathisers, Jew- and Israel haters.
If it really had been about some altruist humanitarian aid, they wouldn't have sought the confrontation with the IDF, since there was an alternative. So the "humanitarian aid" has just been the pretext for a planned propaganda stunt.
As for the "brutal oppression and occupation". Who is supposed to be the "foreign invader"? Jews living in a swath of land some call "Palestine"? BTW: Have you ever read the Hamas charter?
Why don't the Israelis just invite everyone to ship bomb making equipment directly to Gaza?
The ships were attempting to provoke a public relations incident, and they got what they wanted. Now the genocidal turks feel they have the moral high ground. There has as yet been no turkish statement on their slaughter of armenians, violence against their non-muslim minorities, etc. but never mind that.
If you are stupid enough to fight a military team that boards your vessel, expect to be shot.
Don't hijack this thread by dispelling already very inflammatory matter; No documents perscribe any slaughter of Armenians sanctioned by Ottoman government, but Jews indisputably collect Arab aborigines with violence and slaughter into death camps. Name the Gaza or West Bank death camps in Turkey. Yes, thought as much.
I agree with you. The Turks are very capable of blind hate and Israel is public enemy #1 over there.
Their PM returning from Chile to deal with this incident is likely to signal Turkish escalation of this event.
Israelis are a distant 3rd behind kurds and armenians.
Think of KKK in a black neighbourhood? You just came to a different conclusion.
Calm down everybody....from AP: Obama has invited both leaders to WH for a beer makeup fest!!!
Bwahaha! I love a good sense of humor, especially when it's viciously true!
Well well. Shit erupts everywhere.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig11/means1.1.1.html
Counting Coup – Lakota Citizens Stop US Helicopters from Landing at Wounded Knee
by Russell Means
In answer to today’s United States Government and its Colonial Corporation, the Oglala Sioux Tribal Government’s press conference:
“We the Lakotah People, do not want our massacred dead bodies of Men, Women and Children at the mass grave at Wounded Knee used for publicity by the United States Government nor their colonial corporation, the Oglala Sioux Tribal Government.”
On May 1, 2010, two young men, the Camp brothers counted coup on the first 7th Cavalry helicopter and Debbie White Plume, an elder and grandmother who charged the second helicopter preventing it from landing. By running under the blades and touching them without harming the enemy and getting away is how the Lakotah counted coup on this eventful day.
May 2, 2010 at 9:35am
Dakota.
To the Original Peoples of the Fourth World and all International Press Services:
At high noon today US Army helicopters of the US Seventh Cavalry air division attempted to land their Blackhawk aircraft upon Lakota Sacred Burial grounds in South Dakota. The presence of military aircraft from this unit is a sad and insulting reminder of the slaughter of more than 300 American Aboriginals on December 29, 1890 when soldiers of the US 7th Cavalry gunned down more than 300 Aboriginal Minneconjou Lakota refugee children, women, infants and the elderly at what is now called Wounded Knee in South Dakota Indian Country. The military then left the bodies of their victims to decay unburied in the driving snow.
According to reports from Indigenous Rights Movement Radio host Wanblee this afternoon, Lakota resident Theresa TwoBulls was given less than 24 hours notice that three US Army 7th Cavalry helicopters would make a landing on the sacred burial grounds at Wounded Knee. As of this writing, the US military was confronted by angry but peaceful and steadfast community resistance as the Aboriginal people of the area have so far, according to reports from Lakota people on the ground, managed to prevent the aircraft from touching Indigenous ground.
For all American Aboriginals of the Americas, this is a sacred area. This is the place where the promise of a people died while fleeing from a genocidal US military unit hell-bent on liquidating the continent of its Indigenous population. There has never been any official apology offered for this massacre and the military awards bestowed upon the genocidal aggressors involved in this conflict still stand, as does a physical monument in honor of the US Army killed during Custer’s “last stand” against a defiant and united Indigenous resistance to their own demise.
The history of the US Army 7th Cavalry is important to understanding the level of violence used against Indigenous peoples. It is important to remember that after the US Seventh Cavalry officially ended the “Indian Wars” at home, they were then dispatched to do battle against Indigenous Filipinos struggling to maintain their hard-won national independence from the colonialist Spanish. In other words, the US War Department sent this very same unit to do overseas what was done here to the Indigenous peoples of the Americas. In this historical light, it is only logical for Indigenous peoples to assume that the Obama administration is attempting to make a political point out of this spectacle. Only, what sort of message are you sending by insulting and humiliating a people already suffering from five centuries of continuous pro-Europocentric, anti-Indigenous genocide?
This domestic military action is a deliberate insult and an obvious message of ongoing colonialism, state-sponsored racism and apathetic Indigenous genocide to all Indigenous peoples across the Fourth World; to the whole of the Lakota/Dakota Nation; and to the Indigenous residents of Pine Ridge and Wounded Knee. The symbolism of dispatching the Seventh Cavalry to Wounded Knee in an attempt to land weapons of mass destruction on Aboriginal sacred ground tells us how little this government, and this particular administration, respects the people of Indian Country and our significant historical perspective as survivors of the racist Euro-settler xenophobic purges waged against the Indian in the Americas.
To make matters worse, this action comes on the heels of newly-passed legislation in Arizona state that requires law officers to racially-profile anyone they believe “looks,” “sounds” or “dresses” like an illegal immigrant, a thinly veiled “race law” that directly effects both our Indigenous sisters and brothers native to Occupied Mexico as well as the Native American population of Arizona in the United States. Given that most Indigenous peoples of the Americas share the same general physiotype and more often than not, similar Spanish last names, the passage of this guideline will without a doubt lead to widespread abuses against that state’s brown-skinned population. The legal door now opened, Texas and other states led by neo-confederate constituencies are moving to pass their own anti-immigrant/anti-Indigenous directives that will broadly effect anyone and everyone who could be perceived by the colonial European majority as a “foreign invader.”
The Obama administration has shown America and the world that they are no different than any other previous US government in their view that the American Indian on both sides of the US border is nothing more than a prop or a tool to be displayed only when it is useful to promote the “contemporary” 21st-century neo-colonialist capitalist agenda. The Obama administration, an office headed by a man of African descent, has shamed itself and all those who have supported his candidacy in arrogantly dismissing the memory of our people interred at Wounded Knee by rubbing the military might of the historically anti-Indigenous 7th Cavalry in our faces by forcibly entering Indian Country in an attempt to land their machines of war on top of the bodies of our ancestral dead.
Clearly, the culture war against the American Indian is not over. Welcome to the new American century.
Pass this on. We must get the word out…. Let everyone know.... Contact your local media…. Tell them the Local Media in (Rapid City, SD) haven’t even mentioned this in the news…. So typical for Rapid City, SD media…. and if they did post it, it would not be the truth.... I tried to contact the Rapid City Urinal…. LOL. They won't return my calls or post any of the comments I have made in defense of our people.
~ James ( Magaska) Swan AIM Black Hills South Dakota
iReport – CNN news 5/3/2010
Today at just past Noon Central Time; Three US Army Helicopters attempted to land on Lakota Sacred Burial grounds at Wounded Knee, South Dakota.
The Helicopters were from the Seventh Cavalry which were Historically remnants of General G.A. Custer whose troops were defeated at Little Big Horn in one of the many battles of the United States as they waged a war of attrition and Genocide on Native Americans after the Civil War.
On Dec 28, 1890 remnants of the Seventh Cavalry mowed down more than 300 Babies, Children, Women, Old People and Men; at what is now called Wounded Knee, South Dakota and left their victims bodies unburied and frozen.
Theresa TwoBulls was given less than 24 hours notice that three US Army 7th Cav helicopters would land on the burial grounds at Wounded Knee today.
They were met with peaceful but firm resistance, as Lakota (Sioux) women and children stood immobile on that sacred ground, preventing the gross, unspeakable insult of 7th Cavalry choppers to land on the same ground where more than 300 murder victims lay buried.
A Lakota mother said.... ”I cannot believe they are doing this, have they (7th Cav) NO respect for our dead”?
Evidently the 3 helicopters and brass in charge did not know their history..and what a unspeakable insult it was to the residents of Pine Ridge, Wounded Knee and the Lakota people; to have the ACTUAL Seventh Cavalry choppers attempt to land on this sacred ground.
This was Broadcast Live on Blogtalkradio, Indigenous People Rights today. Reprinted from the Republic of Lakotah website.
May 31, 2010
A scuffle over deaf Black Coyote's rifle and they lit them all up (even some of the 7th) with 5 barrel machine guns.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLjrD-oXkhA
The entire Middle East should just be nuked and erased.
Nothing but troublemakers.
Actually, I would say the entire Western world should be nuked and erased. The White Man causes no end of grief to everyone else.
I am Chumbawamba.
Why stop there? Homo Consumerus are a blight world over. Those that survive should live back in the bush!
seriously? really? the broke white man in the trailer park is holding back the broke black man in the hood? really? seriously?
Better run and go see your boy in the White House!
Obama is white, not black. Carried by a white woman for 9 months, raised by a white family. Acts and speaks like a white man, educated as a white man.
The fact that millions of Americans consider him black, simply because of the color of his skin, truly highlights the myopic idiocy of the U.S.
divide and conquer bitchez!
can I get a cost benefit analysis? PLEASE!!!??
Enough of this back and forth already... either they want to trade or don't...
Either they are Oil rich or a nieghbor close enough to be a problem or they are not....
Fucking section them off and do what needs to be done already..
Oops... public opinion... have to be able to maintain the herds direction...
Israel has figured out a while back, what the American intelligentsia is slowly coming to terms with, Mr. Obama is just a hollow figurehead with good oratory skills. when it comes to policy both domestic/international, he has no say but has to listen to his powerful masters whoever they are?.. and Israel not being one of 'em. (BP and Goldman fall into to tier III masters)...so with that background Israel feels it can longer count on the US, at least not for the next few years, and given the volatile conditions in ME, in the interest of self preservation, Israeli powers are most likely looking to consolidate and increase their position in ME. Having said that, Israel needs Turkey, and definitely Europe, so this attack on the flotilla maybe a folly of a low rung officer in the military, who is being groomed for the imminent conflict and went overboard with the operation entrusted to him, without proper approval or realizing the strategic mistake he/she was making.
This attack for sure did not have the approval of the upper echelon, especially given the timing of Mr. Netanyahu's visit to the White house.
Although one might argue that Israel might have planned this particular incident to initiate the process that would help achieve its larger goal, it seems unlikely, for given enough time, they would have a better reason courtesy of Iran and they would have had the world community backing them, including Mr. Obama, who given the reason would have had more flexibility with his masters...
But now that the ball is in motion, I see a 60% chance that this could escalate forcing decisive actions by the powers in ME. -IB
I posted the same thing in another thread, but I see same racist bullshit going on in here as well so once again:
by macroeconomist
on Mon, 05/31/2010 - 16:51
#383927
First things first: I am an atheist that hates all religions equally..
And then, shame on those calling Palestinians 'a bunch of lazy retards living on aid' and thinking Israel is defending itself. Sudden Debt has put the issue very clearly in a post above but I will repeat many more times. To all of those ignorant dumbasses with no historical knowledge, answer these questions.
I write a religious book and claim that God has sent me this instructions and I am the messenger. I call this new religion 'whateverish'
In my book , I argue that Texas is the promised land for followers of my religion.
I find 1 million followers that believe in my book and this new religion.
We all move to a small town in Texas and buy land.
After a while, we declare independence and say this town is called Whateverael from now on.
We tell everybody else living in this town to fuck off or start killing them.
We begin to move out of our town to other towns in Texas and invade them, telling everyone living there it is our land. (read the enlargement of Israel from the day of its foundation before you spit your racist Anti-Muslim vomit)
We kill whoever resists. We put blockade for any help coming to those people from abroad. When anyone tries to send help, we say we will take the aid and give them to the previous residents ourselves.
We call it self-defense.
What would you do as Americans?
Surprised? This is the history of Israel-Palestine war. Read history before you talk.
LOL. Me thinks you need to learn your history.
Please tell us - when exactly was the Gaza strip it's own nation, or part of another nation, after which the Israelis came in and took over?
Then go back farther.
Then farther.
Etc.
And then, after you're done with that - remember who was here in North American before the Europeans (from which peoples the U.S. and Texas were begotten) were.
And think about it for a while. If you have a kernel of sense, you'll then realize how foolish the above post is.
when exactly was the Gaza strip it's own nation, or part of another nation, after which the Israelis came in and took over?
Gaza was never a 'strip' until it was given that designation. It is akin to what was done here in North America to the Indians when we gave them 'reserves'. The Gaza 'strip' was indeed part of nation, and that nation was called Palestine.
In November 1947, the United Nations voted in favor of the partition of Palestine proposing the creation of a Jewish state, an Arab state, and a UN-administered Jerusalem.
"Palestine" was part of the Ottoman Empire until 1917. Then the swath of land was administered by Great Britain under a mandate of the League of Nations. From 1948 to 1967, Gaza was controlled by Egypt. From 1967 until the withdrawal of Israel in 2005 from Gaza, it was controlled by the Israel military. When was Gaza supposed to be part of a nation "Palestine", except as a figment in the heads of Palestinian nationalist, retrospectively projected in time? There has never been a state "Palestine". "The Palestinians" as distinguishable "ethnic" group with their own "identity" were invented in the 60-ies of the 20th century by the PLO.
If you mention the partition plan, you also should mention then that the Arabs states and Arab nationalists were the ones who rejected the partition of the mandate territory and the opportunity to found yet another Arab state. They choose to wage a war against Israel to eliminate it, instead. And large factions haven't given up on this goal yet.
As for the equalization of native Americans and Palestinians. "Palestinians" aren't an indigenous people. Many Palestinian people are equally descendants of immigrants as many Jewish people living in Israel.
Bingo.
As to this:
Gaza was never a 'strip' until it was given that designation. It is akin to what was done here in North America to the Indians when we gave them 'reserves'. The Gaza 'strip' was indeed part of nation, and that nation was called Palestine.
O...K... As rc stated - there never was a nation called "Palestaine". And while technically the term "Gaza Strip" is fairly new - that area has always existed as an entity in some form - sometimes independent sometimes not. Perhaps you've heard of "Canaan"? That would be it.
Exactly packman. In the above post, replace "Whatevereal" with "The New World" and replace "Texas" with "pre-Colombian North America", and you have your answer as to what "Americans" would do. The Americans with guns and smallpox blankets kill the Americans with with tomahawks and scalps. Nothing new here.
Why was the boarding carried out before dawn? - Israel wanted an international reaction. ..and do you imagine that Arabs and muslims wouldn't have given medical treatment to jewish people?!
Her friend, Neish - a pro-Palestinian activist - was on board the six-ship protest flotilla that was raided as it tried to run a blockade off the Gaza coast.
---
"Since the Israeli military always tries to seize the media first to destroy evidence, my job is to non-violently get in the way of the Israeli commandos in a narrow passageway for about 30 seconds so the journalists can up load their reports." The Canadian continues: "It should be interesting to say the least. I guess all my young years spent playing rugby and football are going to come in handy, IE: being able take a hard hit and keep standing and not lose my temper, but this time there's no referees."
But Neish apparently didn't see what was coming.
"I don't think the Israeli's are going to attack us as the bad press coming from this would be enormous, but everyone is ready for them," he wrote.
"Retired US Army Col. Ann Wright is on our ship, so I can't imagine what the Israelis are going to do with her."
http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2010/05/31/14199386.html
it is a great read, really... and I thank you, for taking the time to share... but big picture and common sense, tells us?
Even though I am no supporter of Isreal there aren't enough facts here to support a judgement either way. Would Isreal really allow aid shipments to be cleared and sent after going through their customs? If so then why wouldn't these people accept this. I am inclined to distrust Isreal, but what are the purposes of the embargo? If they are to make sure weapons don't get to Gaza and everything else would be cleared then why wouldn't peaceful protesters accept this?
Would Isreal really allow aid shipments to be cleared and sent after going through their customs?
In a word, 'NO'.
I am inclined to distrust Isreal, but what are the purposes of the embargo?
To starve the people of Gaza.
If they are to make sure weapons don't get to Gaza and everything else would be cleared then why wouldn't peaceful protesters accept this?
Because it has never been about the stoppage of weapons, and might I add that these flotillas are not ferrying weapons. That is a North American lamestream media myth. These blockades are solely about strangling the people of Gaza.
This is a story by the WP on the embargo's impact on Palistinians. It seems like the embargo is an attempt to unseat Hamas at the expense of the citizens.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/28/AR2010052800212.html
That's the pretense at least.
Look, I've watch this same script play out over and over. Israel always demands a "partner in peace". Then once they get one, and just when hopes arise that a peace treaty is at hand, the Israelis find some reason to bomb the shit out of Palestine and set the whole enterprise back to the beginning. Like I said, this has happened over and over again. But don't take my word for it. Go back and do 60 years of reading and research and judge for yourself. I'll wait.
I am Chumbawamba.
I agree totally, and have researched it. I was just trying to approach this particular incident with an unbiased opinion, but that is impossible when you look at the history of Israeli supression and aggressive takeover of the land.
Crank out the propaganda machine. The flotilla has now been associated, and ties made, to AL-CIA-duh by Israel's foreign minstrel.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/10196628.stm
We are missing the big event:
Unofficial cheese rolling race held in GloucestershireWhile we are all bent out of shape over such scripted and staged distractions the puppet masters continue to fleece........
Agreed.
Watch what the other hand is doing. This is cover for something.
International jewry is pushing for yet another war where there is none. They like to watch others bleed while they stand aside. Let us make sure that this time around it is them who bleed while others watch.
dude, can you at least be like chumba (hateful motherfucker that he is) and try to post some facts.
but i actually ran into one of these jews you speak of, he told me their hurricane machine was broken so they had to storm the ship. the thing was made in china, what they expect?
Not many folks have avoided being junked! I'm going to post here because I've never had a junk that I know of. I think if I posted that flowers smell great somebody would junk me. I feel left out.
Flowers do smell great. Just wanted to make my position clear.
+ 1
Yeah, I have smelled some nice flowers too.
My position is clear.
Oh, boy! Junks. You love me, you really love me!
Yes , you are loved, now get the heck off our porch before the sleeping dogs notice you.
+1 to you both. Finally some humor.
Rocky, the sweetest smelling flowers are grown in fields fertilized by bulldozed Palestinians. I want me some junkage too!
There! I've junked you, Rocky, because not ALL flowers smell great! Your broad generalization is inappropriate and unfounded. Get your facts straight! LOL!
Zerohedge? If in fact International Waters, could you please provide your analysis as to why Israel felt they could take over a ship?
Interested on both sides of this argument.
and this ...human life. what is it in relation to
institutional momentum? urgently needed. not the
conditioned canned responses, the creative, imaginative
and divergent thinking part. our better, or best. imo.
.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident
.
"From the start, the veracity of the Israeli claims of mistaken identity ranged between frank disbelief and unquestioning acceptance, within the administration in Washington. A communication to the Israeli Ambassador on June 10, by Secretary Rusk stated, among other things: “At the time of the attack, the USS Liberty was flying the American flag and its identification was clearly indicated in large white letters and numerals on its hull. … Experience demonstrates that both the flag and the identification number of the vessel were readily visible from the air…. Accordingly, there is every reason to believe that that the USS Liberty was identified, or at least her nationality determined, by Israeli aircraft approximately one hour before the attack. … The subsequent attack by the torpedo boats, substantially after the vessel was or should have been identified by Israeli military forces, manifests the same reckless disregard for human life.”[29]
George Lenczowski notes: “It was significant that, in contrast to his secretary of state, President Johnson fully accepted the Israeli version of the tragic incident.” He notes that Johnson himself only included one small paragraph about the Liberty in his autobiography,[30] in which he accepted the Israeli explanation of “error”, but also minimized the whole affair and distorted the actual number of dead and wounded, by lowering them from 34 to 10 and 171 to 100, respectively. Lenczowski further states: “It seems Johnson was more interested in avoiding a possible confrontation with the Soviet Union, …than in restraining Israel."
.
And our flyboys on the way to aid the USS Liberty were ordered to return.
Lots of shame to go around. Presently we have our boys in 2 conflicts needlessly. Its all about the MONEY. Meanwhile our sons and daughters die and we STILL clap and cheer when the president(puppet) speaks. We should be booing and disobeying on account of us being raped and plundered. Most americans still dont see the crime in progress or the cliff before us.
"International jewry is pushing for yet another war where there is none"
Although contrary to popular belief, logic and not emotions lead to wars, although you may be emotional govts are not, and this event flies against logic..IB
Interesting how Israel stormed the ship with commandos - in international waters -and killed people in 'self defense'. You've got to be some kind of die-hard zionist to get behind that story.
I'm not defending anyone, I agree Israel would like to dominate the Bedouins, however, given their brain trust, this looks like a wrong move..that is all
So much heat, so little light. Must rate as the most contentious, acrimonious thread in ZH history. Without passing opinion on either side, what does seem clear is that with this much passion, bigotry , prejudice ( you name it...) , there will be NO HAPPY ENDINGS and this part of the world is destined for considerable bloodshed and destruction....sooner, rather than later. If Israel feels the need to carry out this operation, what do we all speculate will be the end game with Iran ! ( and that's not a question)
On a side note, who else suspects this has Turkish domestic political undertones ! (military must be shuffling their feet restively)
It's heated and I imagine most of the posters here are neither Jewish/Zionist or Arab/Muslim. Imagine how hot runs their blood on the topic. Hence, peace is probably out of the question.
THAT is a good point. If there is this heat here, the hate over there would seem to put peace out of the picture for another 100 years.
Looking back at history, given the current ecomomic undercurrents US needs a war..given the oil in ME I would look towards Asia..far and away and limted oil and nor Isreal
Seriously, what do you expects from people who would worship this war mongering, vain, spoiled child of a deity? Jews, Muslims and the old testament luvin', fire n brimstone spewin', white trash Christians.
These Zionist genocidal maniacs coninue to murder innocent people using weapons paid for with US tax dollars. The US politicians continue to support genocide while holding a gun to the head of tax payers who ostensibly "vote" them into office. I predict, as this system falls apart, those who lost everything will demand politicians' heads to roll. I will be in the guillotine sales department if my services are needed :)
Divide and conquer.
This thread is living proof of how sheep are kept brainwashed by the elite.
>90% of you here getting your panties in a twist taking sides to this clusterfk are a lost cause.
You're an idiot. Israel is not the one firing rockets at gaza schools trying to kill kids. Israel went to great lengths to try to avoid civilian casualties and the chicken shit hamas and hezbollah hide behind them.
Israel is our only allie in the region and you side with terrorists who have murdered Americans repeatedly.
Pathetic.
Of course our corrupt government supports them. Bloodthirsty birds of a feather....
As I understand it, an allie (sic) is a friendly nation by mutual treaty. Isreal has no treaties.
Th USA has only one non-NATO Treatied ally in the ME and it is Egypt.
Wag a finger in our face-we will launch a nuke down your throat- Thank God our boys know how to fight and defend themselves-try to pummel me-you are dead
Daniel from Israel
Holy Sweet Lord, Turkey has announced they will send another flotilla to Gaza—escorted by the Turkish Navy!
At some point in time, they will likely cross into Israeli territorial waters which would then be considered an act of war. And an unprovoked one at that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_waters
A state's territorial sea extends up to 12 nautical miles (22 km) from its baseline. If this would overlap with another state's territorial sea, the border is taken as the median point between the states' baselines, unless the states in question agree otherwise. A state can also choose to claim a smaller territorial sea.
Conflicts still occur whenever a coastal nation claims an entire gulf as its territorial waters while other nations only recognize the more restrictive definitions of the UN convention. Two recent conflicts occurred in the Gulf of Sidra where Libya has claimed the entire gulf as its territorial waters and the U.S. has twice enforced freedom of navigation rights, in the 1981 and 1989 Gulf of Sidra incidents.
Verifiable source/link please.
Naturally Turkey would allow cargo inspections by Israel as a NATO courtesy. I suspect Israel could induce Turkey to provide liason with IDF to ensure that the blockade is respected. NATO would not want a member state escalating the situation, especially since Egypt also has a blockade with Gaza.
If Turkey went awol, NATO would be forced to pull Turkey's leash. I suspect we are about to see the end of any dreams of Turkish integration with the West; economically or politically.
That's a good observation!
Turkey may have to choose:
1) Sign up with the Islamists or
2) Join Europe and the West
Let's see which way they go.
Join on which terms?
Somebody told that they called for NATO. If there is no answer, it means that Turkey is a special member who has to respect his committment while expecting other members dont.
If confirmed, the statement is let's see wich way they are pushed to go.
This is just another example of two peoples fighting for control of a chunk of territory. Nothing new about that; every form of life on earth has to fight for territory. So, since MY people are not involved in this fight, I find it hard to get particularly worked up about it. Both sides can argue about how unjust the other side is and make reasonable-sounding arguments. But the bottom line remains that they both want the same territory, and one of them is going to end up holding it - the one that is stronger/has stronger allies/is more clever/whatever.
If there's anything to learn from this, it's that you want your people to be as strong and rich and united as possible, so you can hold on to your territory. Because the only thing you can count on from others is that they will act in their own interest, not yours.
True. With enough nationalism you can accomplish anything. But you have to elect 'der fuher' first.
Worldwide protests over Israeli raid
People of the U.S. and the World Must End Israeli Impunity Now!
Israeli Raid Triggers Worldwide Outcry
Israeli attack on Gaza aid flotilla outrages world
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1282802/Israeli-forces-kill-19-people-carrying-aid-ship-Gaza.html
Israeli commandos kill 19 in attack on flotilla trying to break Gaza blockade
Claim and counterclaim after deadly flotilla raid
Australians on aid flotilla are safe
US-Israel links at risk over deadly aid convoy attack
Israel condemned as anger grows over flotilla raid
Fury follows deadly attack
Worldwide protests over Israeli raid
People of the U.S. and the World Must End Israeli Impunity Now!
Israeli Raid Triggers Worldwide Outcry
Israeli attack on Gaza aid flotilla outrages world
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1282802/Israeli-forces-kill-19-people-carrying-aid-ship-Gaza.html
Israeli commandos kill 19 in attack on flotilla trying to break Gaza blockade
Claim and counterclaim after deadly flotilla raid
Australians on aid flotilla are safe
US-Israel links at risk over deadly aid convoy attack
Israel condemned as anger grows over flotilla raid
Fury follows deadly attack
Can I get this for Wii?
seriously folks nobody will care about this incident in another week. this is just fodder for selling papers; why does ZH even care?
Israel is a terrorist nation. *Watch Core of Corruption*
It is always the same religion BS. Just do it like the old times, let then fight and the strongest will survive. Just end with this shi**t. Who gives a fck? It is all about money. The world in the brick of colapse and the same old religion clash. Just wake up, we are in 21st century. Who cares about some one did (if it is true) 2 or 3 thousand years ago. If everybody is right about their own religion, then no one is right. I bet GS is behind it...
Oh? And what did the Israelis find when they violently commandeered a ship carrying peace activists?
You're an idiot.
I am Chumbawamba
Just because you are Chumbawamba does not mean you are not an idiot. In fact, your comments have outed you.
One thing for sure...plenty of cards thrown on the table today & everyone thinks they've got the winning hand. What now? I use to think that my convictions were strong on certain matters but after reading through all this vitriol I am now humbled. If all this hatred doesn't raise people's awareness to the serious state of affairs the world faces then most are too blinded with hatred. Please do not turn this site into a war zone as before today it did resemble a democracy. Remember whom the God's want to destroy they first send mad.
tyler, you are walking on fine lines here allowing such discussions as it seems anything to do with anti israel gets yanked on the net quickly these days then again you never did give a flying fuck...im surprised all your goldman posts was never labelled anti semitic and the site shut down
kudos to freedom
One thing for sure...plenty of cards thrown on the table today & everyone thinks they've got the winning hand. What now? I use to think that my convictions were strong on certain matters but after reading through all this vitriol I am now humbled. If all this hatred doesn't raise people's awareness to the serious state of affairs the world faces then most are too blinded with hatred. Please do not turn this site into a war zone as before today it did resemble a democracy. Remember whom the God's want to destroy they first send mad.
Chill, abalone. Democracy is a war of sorts. Disagreements do not have to be considered personal attacks. That attitude is for the womenfolk.
What's wrong with taking a suffragette point of view anyway?
Chumbawamba has made some valid points, Jews have way too much power in the USA, however the Muslims will not be happy until every jew and jesus are converted or killed. It looks quite clear to me that the world is moving closer to a large hot war. If not here many other places are heating up, People seem to be getting less civil and more violent and stupid. Almost everywhere. Remember what ended the great depression? The future looks bleak to me.
I don't have the time to sift through Chumbawamba crap looking for gold nuggets.
b
Anyone who supports Israel on this is a rank moron and immoral. But, I might still respect your financial advice. Carry on
Why would it make someone a "rank moron" to believe it is reasonable that the Israelis insist on searching ships headed for Gaza so weapons aren't imported that can be used against them? It doesn't seem reasonable to me to believe that the Israelis just arbitrarily started shooting people when they landed on the ship to take it to port to be searched. The most reasonable explanation is that they were attacked and responded by shooting back.
It seems perfectly moral to me for the Israelis to prevent weapons from being imported into Gaza. The muslims have a long record of attacks on Israel. Self-defense is moral. If you're going to insist on sailing ships full of supplies into Israeli-controlled territory, you have to expect them to be opposed or at least searched.
F-'ing shoot at a NATO ALLY with Americans on board. Israel has jumped the shark. Emergency NATO meeting tomorrow.
The Likud is toast.
Religious wars aside, what would America do if missles were being lobbed over our border? Would we just take it? Obviously within 24 hours the launch area would be bombed to a cinder, and commandos and drones would kill everything moving. Israel has been a lot more tolerant than the US would.