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Israeli, Saudi and American Leaders Say Arabs Are Not Ready for Democracy
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said on Friday:
I'm not sure the time is right for the Arab region to go through the democratic process.
Also on Friday, Saudi King Abdullah said he support Egyptian president Mubarak and called the protesters troublemakers for calling for freedom of expression:
Saudi
King Abdullah has expressed his support for embattled President Hosni
Mubarak and slammed those "tampering" with Egypt's security and
stability, state news agency SPA reported on Saturday.The Saudi
ruler, in Morocco recovering from back surgery performed in the United
States, telephoned Mubarak early Saturday, the report said.During
the conversation, Abdullah condemned "intruders" he said were
"tampering with Egypt's security and stability ... in the name of
freedom of expression."
As FireDogLake notes, the U.S. State Department has taken a similar position.
As a large group of well-respected American academics wrote in an open letter today to President Obama:
As
political scientists, historians, and researchers in related fields
who have studied the Middle East and U.S. foreign policy, we the
undersigned believe you have a chance to move beyond rhetoric to support
the democratic movement sweeping over Egypt. As citizens, we expect
our president to uphold those values.
For thirty years, our
government has spent billions of dollars to help build and sustain the
system the Egyptian people are now trying to dismantle. Tens if not
hundreds of thousands of demonstrators in Egypt and around the world
have spoken. We believe their message is bold and clear: Mubarak should
resign from office and allow Egyptians to establish a new government
free of his and his family’s influence. It is also clear to us that if
you seek, as you said Friday 'political, social, and economic reforms
that meet the aspirations of the Egyptian people,' your administration
should publicly acknowledge those reforms will not be advanced by
Mubarak or any of his adjutants.
There is another lesson
from this crisis, a lesson not for the Egyptian government but for our
own. In order for the United States to stand with the Egyptian people
it must approach Egypt through a framework of shared values and hopes,
not the prism of geostrategy. On Friday you rightly said that
“suppressing ideas never succeeds in making them go away.” For that
reason we urge your administration to seize this chance, turn away from
the policies that brought us here, and embark on a new course toward peace, democracy and
prosperity for the people of the Middle East. And we call on you to
undertake a comprehensive review of US foreign policy on the major
grievances voiced by the democratic opposition in Egypt and all other
societies of the region.
As Agence France-Presse reports:
"Egypt
remains a major pawn in the Middle East," said [Didier Billion, an
expert at Institute for International and Strategic Relations (IRIS) in
Paris]. The West fears "a domino effect if Mubarak falls, with a
protest movement that could grow across the world." [And the Egyptian
situation is already affecting the Saudi stock market.]
***
"One
of the lessons here is that we need to be on the right side of
history in these countries," said US Senator John McCain, who lost his
2008 White House bid to Obama.
"We need to do a better job of emphasizing and arguing strenuously for human rights," he said on the CNN news channel.
"You can't have autocratic regimes last forever. The longer they last, the more explosive the results."
Indeed, the U.S. is now becoming concerned that continuing to back Mubarak will ensure that it is on the losing side of history.
For that reason, Obama changed his tune today, saying
that he supports an "orderly transition" in Egypt. This is not a
change in America's foreign policy so as to embrace democracy in the
Middle East. Rather, it is simply a realization that America's puppet in Egypt has lost his grip on power and is impossible to save. And see this.
As a prominent writer told me:
We really should
be embarrassed. TE Lawrence promised the Arabs democracy in return for
their support in WWI (it was critical to Allied victory) and Great
Britain welched on the promise. This is more of the same BS.
Indeed, Wikipedia notes:
Britain had promised, through British intelligence officer T. E. Lawrence (aka: Lawrence of Arabia),
independence for a united Arab state covering most of the Arab Middle
East in exchange for Arab support of the British during the war.
It
goes without saying that the hostility of the State Department and our
"allies" in the War on Terror Israel and Saudi Arabia towards democracy
in Egypt gives lie to the claim that the War on Terror is about bringing
"democracy" to the Middle East.
»
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Fuck you stupid yank. It is gonna be nice to watch your shithole country collapsing soon. Don't come to us for help, you fucks.
Puppet states are much easier to control in pursuit of your own nationalistic interests than are democracies. It is no surprise that Middle Eastern states are terrified of change in Egypt. Israel is comfortable with the known quantity that Egypt is now, and The House of Saud is palpitating at the possibility of Egypt's disease spreading to their own Royal sandbox. That great bastion of democracy - the US State Department, sees no benefit in a democratic system in such a turn-key state in the Middle Eastern region.....democracies are messy when it comes to purchasing their good-will and strategic direction....they will take your money, but they may not return the favor by doing your bidding.
The US government still has their collective heads stuck in a power-centric 20th century geopolitical model that like Ptolemy's Earth centered universe, that has the US in the middle of all human activities - marketing itself as a shining beacon of freedom and a kind of benign, benevolent grandfather who from time-to-time can have a murderous temper if things don't go his way.
The Western media let themselves become too consumed by their own collective slow death at the hands of the Internet, and their "breaking news" marketing insanity around a warped reality involving some kind of ratings menage-a-trois orgy involving Michelle Bachmann and Sarah Palin and Justin Bieber.
There are a lot of forces out there that are signalling a change in how geopolitics and geoeconomics may work in the future. A lot of countries out there are very tired of being lectured by the US on how they should run their political and economic systems...something we have been failing at in an embarrassing manner. At some point, we need to understand that giving a nationalistic entity billions of dollars in bribes to do our bidding is likely to come back to haunt us. They are no more thieves for telling us to piss-off, than we are for the initial bribery. There really is no honor amongst thieves, or between countries who steal from their taxpayers to arm other countries with weapons that the other country will - in time, use against their own people.
The US government is trying to deal in a very narrow and very ancient way with a slowly building hurricane of changing ideas, alliances and power centers. The old system where the US could hold sway with economic snobbery, military might and bribery, is coming to and end. That jack-ass has left the barn and is running through the corn stalks of all the edifices that our high-minded global blackmail has built and sustained since World War ll. The old system has discovered a black swan. How we react to it will define us in the years to come.
My hat as well Ari.
I might add the practice of blackmail for a vote in the UN is well past it's prime.
That is, if you do not vote for X with us we will withdraw the US taxpayer stipend to your nation and your people will become...well, unruly.
There is a very large book that can be written on these things. I do not particularly like bashing the US, but...I think we are in trouble unless we change our mindset. Thanks for the hat, bud.
"I do not particularly like bashing the US, but..."
I don't either...but yes we do need to change...my opinion it should start with Europe and the closing of our military bases there.
Again, nice post.
SeeYa
Double post.
That is probably one of the new ideas that is going to be difficult. The Pentagon's budget, and a awful lot of contractors and weapons producers depend on that wide area deployment for profits. Politicians and Statesmen consider it a valuable presence into other countries. The original intent was to stop warring Europe from embroiling the world via another of their internecine squabbles, and to enhance the efficiency of the Marshall plan. Both of those requirements are long dead. After that, it became the projection of power and military budgets. Every time the subject comes up, it is shot down by cries of isolationism. The US bases in Europe will go away when (and if) the European Union sees a union beyond just monetary ( not likely to happen). Or, possibly if the US goes through one of its isolationist periods. If the UN was not simply a means of fostering the winning WW2 powers influence over other countries, it might could broker an international treaty that requires reciprocity for military bases...i.e., if the US has a base in Italy, then the Italians must have a base in the US. That would not only stop foreign military bases, it might even help prevent war.
close all the fucking bases. What did Ben Franklin say? trade and intercourse with every country. Alliances with none. I'm all over that intercourse thingy. So was Ben.
But, Ben Franklin signed the Treaty of Alliance and the Treaty of Amity and Commerce with France in 1778.
He was totally pussy whipped, french style. Oh and I misread the date. 1778? There was this minor little problem of getting our asses beaten by the British and needing a teensy bit of help from the French. Could you pretty please send over a few ships? Maybe some supplies or something? Please. I will be your best friend forever. He made his statement about alliances afterward, that little hypocrite.
Maybe he learned something from that initial alliance that changed his stance...would have to go back and read the history on it to be sure. Or maybe he would have done it again if conditions warranted...sometimes people lose the strength of their own convictions when the practical need arises.
a shotgun toting paranoid philosopher with impressive knowledge of booby traps. Now I have seen everything. I know you are fully prepped and know the lingo I got all the booby trap books too. And probably just like you, all I need is a knife, and I can fucking make one out of a rock. Dogbane makes great cordage, but so does a lot of other things. I'm flexible.
I am not really paranoid, I just like to role-play sometimes to shake the dog fleas out of my hair. Uncle Sam introduced me to booby traps years ago when he sent me on vacation to the tropics....and, I studied them afterwards, just trying to keep up with the technology. Ok...I like shotguns. and to quote Phill Gramm (I hate to quote this prick, but even a blind pig finds an acorn now and then) "I have more shotguns than I need, but less than I want." I have a Kriss I made out of an old file and a toilet brush handle...don't ask me why, just because.
with due respect such BS, though I am partial to Berber architecture
Due respect noted.
Hat tip in your general direction, sir.
Well put...Bravo!
second that motion
Thank you.
No. Thank you! :)
the soft bigotry of low expectations
Indeed.
This is how elites think...they're not ready...what about the lights staying on?...the IMF cash flow?...the tourism?...etc. ad nauseum.
Sometimes I could just scream.
And you get junked yet again.
Odd...especially since you are being truthy.
Cistercian,
"And you get junked yet again.
Odd...especially since you are being truthy."
It's my little troll(s)...(two confirmed) always anonymous, always cowards, never able to offer a cogent thought or opinion, they belong in the dark and unheard because of what they are. All I can do is offer examples that they are in fact there. CD has also picked up a few.
Of mine, one is virulent who would no doubt like to see me dead...which speaks to the mindset, a weak little poser ;-)...one is, just confused, about who I am and what I believe...but an observant ZH'r can pick it up.
It's kind of a little fight within the fight club...LOL...it doesn't bother me, cause they know they can't take me here or anywhere else.
Yeah, some micro cephalopod here junks every thing I post, even my "double posts." I don't have a problem with it, since they obviously don't have the intellectual ability or courage to use the Fight Club ethos and take me on mano-a-mano. Probably some kid with pimples and coke-bottle glasses who likes to jerk-off while pin-pricking his intellectual, physical, social and financial superiors while they do their normal thing and make him feel like a turd that would do the world a favor by committing suicide.
I junked you too, cause I thought maybe you'd really feel left out after I bothered to throw the guy above you a pity junk.
Junks are on me tonight.
Somehow I don't think anonymously junking people is one of the rules of fight club, and since the voting system is obviously broken on ZH, I say we just start junking everyone as a sign of solidarity!
Unified against the trolls, .GOV autobots and the mindless apparatchik (US based or not)...
Junk away!
P.S. I even junked myself...lol
Alright, you talked me into it. junked.
But now I feel all dirty.
Hmm, not bad.
Huminah huminah...you said dirty...a junk for you sweet thang ;-)
True enough, the microcephalids are tedious.
I got junked twice just for supporting you!
Bugs is spot on too.
The Egyptians can be as great a people as they want to be.
Luxor shows they have done it before.And, comically, no one is precisely certain on how the pyramids were built in the first place.
Which should give one pause when listening to today's "experts".
Rock on dudes!
I saw that nobody had junked you yet, and I didn't want you to feel left out so I junked you.
I always claim my junks.
If you're not pissing enough people off to have a "fan club," then you're not saying things plain enough for the thinking impaired.
I too have a pair of "fans." I note that a couple of times when I have responded to one of your comments, my own junk count doubled.
It feels good to be loved!
Just give the lds (little dick syndrome) folks the pinky finger wave they so richly deserve. A junk or two just means you're rubbing someone the right way. Chain junks simply reflect the basis of the "reasonable middle" and the continuation of the ponzi. Punk pos's.
Hella great observation Bugs_ & rock on nmewn
well i liked it but theres no way to mark it, so i am sayen it .
PS action is the only answer.
.
Hey merehuman - good to see you buddy.
Are you making Jewelry? Out here, they have some beautiful heavy silver belts. I may get another one today.
FYI, nmewn thinks we should go to war with "evil" Iran. Which is kind of funny when he talks the evil banker talk at the same time.
on Mon, 01/31/2011 - 02:12
#919525
Hey merehuman - good to see you buddy.
Are you making Jewelry? Out here, they have some beautiful heavy silver belts. I may get another one today.
FYI, nmewn thinks we should go to war with "evil" Iran. Which is kind of funny when he talks the evil banker talk at the same time.
;-)
GW,
Not to worry, 80 million Egyptians just went into the Dark Ages based on a scam just like America did 2 years ago.
http://www.dore-gold.com/2010/01/hatreds-kingdom-how-saudi-arabia-supports-the-new-global-terrorism.php http://www.amazon.com/Hatreds-Kingdom-Arabia-Supports-Terrorism/dp/0895261359 The Muslim Brotherhood is spawned in Saudi Arabia and Wahhabbi. The worst Theocratic freaks on the planet just were awarded Egypt and now border Israel. Dr. Ayman al-Zawahiri,an Egyptian member of the Muslim Brotherhood , is Osama Bin Ladens right hand man, sentenced to death in absentia in Egypt and was instrumental in the Ayatollah Khomeini's 1979 Iranian "revolution". There will be no Democracy in Egypt. Further PROOF that America is bankrupt and completely powerless , with our creditors not only calling the shots but operating behind a curtain that was once called the United States of America.and another thing. Have you ever read anything that al Zawahiri has written? He comes across more like an american revolutionary islamic style than anything elsem, at least his first book. Granted he did get a little more radical after the government of egypt imprisoned him and tortured him for a while. I might too. Let's say I was tortured by an oppressive government that I knew a great power was backing. I might also go after the great power too. We can work with Zawahiri. maybe the zionists can't, but he has nothing against america as long as we butt out of the middle east. Deal.
If you have been watching the brotherhood closely they have been awfully moderate. They are backing el baradei or however you spell him. But it really doesn't matter, if they are moderate or not they have to make their own mistakes and evolve their own way. It is not our place to tell them how to run their government. Only Israel has the right to do that.
The Muslim Brotherhood fearmongering thing is bullshit.
They are not that influential in present-day Egypt, and are hardly poised to grab the power in a vacuum. The demonstrations are mostly secular -- are for human rights, they aren't demanding Sharia, etc.
[moved]
Obama supporters were quite supportive of his approach to Middle Eastern relations back in June of 2009.
HuffPo's article on the speech at this link - but go to the comment section to get a real idea of what Obama and his supporters thought to be relevant with respect to Egypt and the Muslim world.
comments at HuffPo - from one of their Superusers reads as follows in repsonse to the Obama Cairo Speech:
and another HuffPo superuser
you get the idea - more at:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/04/obama-speech-in-cairo-vid_n_211...
(and to think these guys own Business Insider, actually upon reflection it's pretty obvious that they do)
It's impossible to tell the difference between subtle sarcasm and an over-dose on Koolaid -- I'm bettin' on the Koolaid in these instances, though!
hilarious. the left changes its positions like the wind and thinks nothing of it.
the great uniter?
I'm sorry you misunderstand. There is no left.
I'm sorry you misunderstand. There is no left.
Almost as funny as the Wall St. Journal Editorial page.
Cake?
Anyone?
"It's freedom, baby, yeah!" A.P.
All we need here is for one pissed-off traveler to pop a TSA "agent" in the chops, and the game will be on--the whole fucking world is ready for regime change...
"Yeah, baby, yeah " - A.P.