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It Begins: France Commences Military Action Over Libya

Tyler Durden's picture


It has begun - From the AP: "Top officials from the United States, Europe and the Arab world have announced immediate military action to protect civilians amid combat between Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi's forces and rebel fighters. French President Nicolas Sarkozy said after an emergency summit in Paris on Saturday that France has already taken military action against Libya. Sarkozy said "our determination is total." Earlier Saturday, Libyan government troops forces stormed into the rebel capital of Benghazi, apparently ignoring a proclaimed cease-fire and potentially complicating any allied military action."

The photo below shows what happens when a Libyan jet takes on a French fighter jet:

More from Al Arabiya:

Several French Rafale fighter jets on Saturday overflew "all Libyan territory" on reconnaissance mission, ready to enforce an air-exclusion zone to halt Muammar Qaddafi’s attacks on opposition, a French military source said, as Western leaders met in Paris to consider their next steps.

The planes were in the air not far from Libya this afternoon and were ready to carry out air strikes if there are orders from President Nicolas Sarkozy, a military official with knowledge of the preparations said on condition of anonymity.

World leaders gathered in Paris on Saturday to discuss a coordinated military intervention in Libya, where Muammar Gaddafi defied the West with an advance into the rebel stronghold of Benghazi.

A witness from the western town of Zintin has told Al Arabiya that Gaddafi forces were pounding the town with artillery and residents, including women and children, were taking refuge hideouts in the city.

The witness added that Gaddafi forces were attempting to subdue the opposition-held town because of its strategic location west of the capital Tripoli.

An unnamed U.S. official has said the ongoing violence against Libyan civilians "obviously has an impact" on the international community's next steps

U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, British Prime Minister David Cameron and French President Sarkozy met privately and then sat down with Arab leaders, an African Union representative, European Union representatives and European heads of state to prepare rapid U.N.-mandated action.

After Gaddafi broke his pledge of a ceasefire overnight, sources close to the Paris talks said military strikes could start as soon as the meeting ends on Saturday afternoon, with France, Britain and Canada in an initial operation and any participation by the United States or Arab nations coming later.

"The strikes could start around 3 or 4 o'clock (1400-1500 GMT)," one source said, adding that Gaddafi's advance into the eastern city of Benghazi had increased pressure to act fast.

A second source said it was "certainly possible" that strikes would start straight after the meeting.

Sarkozy will address the media after the meeting wraps up at around 3:30 p.m. (1430 GMT) and Clinton, Cameron and Merkel are also expected to make statements.

Iraq's foreign minister was at the talks, as was the Qatari prime minister and United Nations Secretary General Ban Ki-moon and German Chancellor Angela Merkel, even though Germany is not expected to participate in any action for now.

Determined to prove its diplomatic clout after its clumsy handling of the revolt in Tunisia, Paris has been at the forefront of coordinating a world response to the crisis in Libya, where Gaddafi's troops outgun rag-tag and poorly armed rebel forces. Sarkozy was the first foreign leader to recognize the opposition and drop support for Gaddafi.

Backed by Cameron, Sarkozy convened Saturday's talks in a matter of hours after pushing France's U.N. Security Council partners hard this week to back a resolution allowing possible military action and a no-fly zone over Libya.

NATO ambassadors met in Brussels earlier on Saturday to discuss involvement by the 28-member military alliance in enforcing a no-fly zone, but no decision was taken.

A NATO diplomat said Britain, the United States and Canada were in favour of NATO taking a lead in any operation but said Paris was lukewarm on the idea.

"There could be a decision tomorrow saying that NATO will engage in a no-fly zone, but it's still not clear whether it will be a coalition of the willing, or a NATO operation," the diplomat said.

"France seems to have some problem with it being a NATO operation, given NATO's reputation in the Arab world as a result of Afghanistan and given that NATO is seen as an alliance dominated by the United States."

He added: "What is certain is that time is pressing. A delay of 12 hours of so could be very harmful."

Gaddafi's push into Libya's second city of 670,000 people, in spite of the ceasefire pledged on Friday, appeared to be an attempt to pre-empt Western military action.

France and Britain declined to react to the latest attacks ahead of the Paris talks, but a French government source said the international community must act fast.

"Everything is ready (to act) but the decision is now a political one. It's clear we have to move quickly," he said.

French Foreign Minister Alain Juppe met EU Foreign Minister Catherine Ashton earlier on Saturday to discuss the EU's role.

In the meantime pro Gaddafi forces in Tripoli threaten all out civil war, as per Al Jazeera (watch live coverage after the jump).


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Sat, 03/19/2011 - 11:14 | 1075017 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Oh great. The French leading the way. This will end well.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 11:19 | 1075038 CH1
CH1's picture

Very interesting commentary from a businessman who has lived on and off in Libya for a long time:

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 11:46 | 1075175 SRV - ES339
SRV - ES339's picture

Interesting take... I'd have to hear (many) more with the same view before I could take it seriously, but it is interesting. Of course, the elite of the west are on board with the Fed's destruction of the middle class too... a bit of "I'm alright Jack" in both cases I suspect (my guess is he's right, but his percentages are skewed to support his case).

However, we do hear rumblings about just who the rebels are (most likely mercenaries on both sides), but not much detail. Of course we'll find out... long after the fighting concludes... as usual.

Thanks for the link CH1!

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 14:44 | 1075921 Imminent Crucible
Imminent Crucible's picture

I don't believe a word of this story.  Mad High Flatulence Trader said that all the bad stuff was in for 2011.

Here are the top five headlines on MarketWatch:

Air Strikes Over Libya Begin

French Jets Hit Gadhafi Fighters Near Benghazi

Hamas Fires 50-plus Rockets At Israel

Gunmen Kill 45 Protestors in Yemen

Radiation Found In Japanese Crops

Every bit of it's a lie.  Or else, MHFT is a nitwit.  Your call.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 16:55 | 1076307 What does it al...
What does it all mean's picture


I agree, most of this is manufactured.

1.  The plane is from the Rebels, a CLEAR violation of the no-fly-zone.

2.  Khaddfy is smarter than US, and even more so than Hosni, if it escalates, it will be bloddy.  (He has been in power for 40 years!, lunatic, he might be.)  We started becoming their friend after they give up WMD in 2003.

3.  Watch German, China, Russia and even Brazil voting no on this...  

4.  North Korea will never give up their nukes now..

5.  Where are the Japan Nuclear news?  People die and people lives, Nuclear Radiation is forever...

6.  The hypocrisy of our policy toward Bahrain, Yemen and Syria...  At least made up a fear factor like a WMD and take one for the team like Bush did...  

Bottomline, there is so much we don't know and it is not because we are trying to protect the civiliians..  we can't even get his name right.  Quaddfi, Khaddfy, Qaddfy... Come on...

I pick Quahddafhy.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 17:19 | 1076555 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

each tomahawk missile cost 3,202,857.10

so we just fired over 358 million dollars of missiles at a man whose name we cant even spell



may be a slow start to WW3, but it'll do

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 17:28 | 1076601 KinorSensase
KinorSensase's picture

hahahahaha.  good observation.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 17:31 | 1076618 Yes We Can. But...
Yes We Can. But Lets Not.'s picture

Hey, Obooba has been saying that he has a laser-like focus on jobs jobs jobs, and making munitions is a job

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 20:44 | 1077218 clymer
clymer's picture

Tyler, Sacrilege, Marla, et al


Is it me, or does attacking other Nations seem to raise the number of posts from the usual 83 - 176 to the >1000 range?

God forbid these donkeys get hip to PM's, and actually make a dent in this global scam

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 20:52 | 1077236 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

Finally!  A true Crusader who can cut through the shit and get the paydirt!

God damn...I admire you.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 17:34 | 1076649 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

I thought they were $575,000 each. 

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 17:47 | 1076685 What does it al...
What does it all mean's picture

Inflation or military accounting... pick one.

Seriously, ZH readers, on a long enough timeline, the survival rate of the Mox fuel will outlast all of us!  Let's spend this money to help the Japanese....  Now, that deserves a Nobel peace prize...

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 18:46 | 1076890 Don Birnam
Don Birnam's picture

A Tomahawk strike wave consisting of 112 targets ? French jocks taking out some ( likely antiquated ) Libyan armored assets ?

...All well and good, but the most important question is,

"How are the S&P futures holding up ? No fly zone ? BTFD !"

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 20:06 | 1077130 What does it al...
What does it all mean's picture

112 missles, more like 20 targets.  

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 22:47 | 1077507 nmewn
nmewn's picture

So, what you're saying is Reagan was more efficient (45 aircraft & 227 hits) as well as correct in trying to take out a known terrorist supporter and dictator (even with having to fly around "allied" countries airspace...France, Spain and Italy) all those years ago.

On some astral plane somewhere Ronnie grins that shit eatin grin of his ;-)

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 04:58 | 1078142 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

The current version of the Tomahawk has multiple warheads.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 21:40 | 1077350 kita27
kita27's picture

I agree, Im with Gaddaffi, this is the most obvious  conspiracy i have ever seen. I dont think the powers that be can even be bothered hiding it anymore.

"We want to protect the citizens", we want to spend billions of dollars, break international law and the sovereignty of Libya, risk the lives and equipment of western forces, risk escalation to full fledged war.

Meanwhile Saudi Arabia invades Bahrain, Yemen civilians are being slaughtered.

Al Jazeera is so biased in their coverage i cannot watch. They were biased also with Egypt but at least Egypt was a geniune revolution.

i hope western forces get bogged in a quagmire, Gaddafi needs to take Benghazi and disperse forces amongst the population and hide. All forces need to make themselves hidden to neutralise western technological superiority.

im neither here nor there for Gaddafi personally, but i am against lies, manipulation, greed, the the potential ramifications from the total disregard for Libyan sovereignty. There is no doubt this is all part of the larger strategic plan toward tackling Iran.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 22:44 | 1077505 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

you know things will be perking right along when the first "allied" truck hits the first ied.  how exactly will the fight to retake benghazi play to the strengths of this "air only" allied offensive?  seem to remember a similar "no-fly zone" didn't work toward a quick endgame with ol' saddam.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 22:53 | 1077514 nmewn
nmewn's picture

It's a European problem...let europeons send in the ground troops...they're big boys, so they say.

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 04:36 | 1078132 Dave
Dave's picture

Yeah, so they say. Just watch.

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 05:03 | 1078146 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

I wasn't alive for the last time that was stated, but I have read how that played out. The question is who else is going to be forced onto the other side? Iran and who? I can tell from first hand experience that the only European troop's worth a damn are the ones from the Ukraine. So I know that this fight will end up long and protracted.

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 07:46 | 1078225 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"The question is who else is going to be forced onto the other side? Iran and who?"

For myself, with China & Russia abstaining on the UN vote, it won't be them. The only real advantage of having the UN around is it forces a "tell" on these things ;-)

As for Iran, she has isolated herself as one of the lone brigand states (not her people, the state itself). I found it interesting that Iran found Saudi troops in Bahrain "unacceptable"...Shiite vs. Sunni again?, possibly...but probably not IMHO.

Let the record show here I am no friend of the House of Saud.

On the two Iranian warships that passed through the Suez recently...many believe they were dropping off arms meant for Gaza (as Hezbollah, in Lebanon, can get theirs easily through Syria). These arms were subsequently confiscated by the IDF on a Liberian flagged freighter whose last port of call was Turkey...doubtful the transfer was made in Turkey...probably an open sea transfer.

Point being, Iran is an isolated violent menace just like Syria. The other large nations may trade with her but that's not the hill they will ultimately choose to fight & die on. 

We in the west should familiarize ourselves with how they go about speaking with the west from time to time...humbly submitted;

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 22:25 | 1077476 Whoa Dammit
Whoa Dammit's picture

QEddaffy Bitchez!

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 03:39 | 1078094 thegr8whorebabylon
thegr8whorebabylon's picture

lol +1

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 19:40 | 1077077 avonaltendorf
avonaltendorf's picture

@Tyler, very sincere thanks for covering the continuing Fukushima story, G7 float, and MENA. I check a lot of sources and Zero Hedge is head and shoulders above everything else, partly because you host this discussion forum. Between all the blue-faced monkey shit, there is an esrtwhile group effort to sift facts, post data, and define the essential questions.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 12:23 | 1075333 avonaltendorf
avonaltendorf's picture

I lived in Tripoli long enough to be disgusted and angry as hell. Saw plenty of these asshole "businessmen." The death penalty is not strong enough punishment for Kaddafi and the vicious scum who function as bagmen and kept him in absolute power for 40 years. If you haven't seen Libya, you don't know how filthy and corrupt it is.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 12:36 | 1075376 cossack55
cossack55's picture

I've seen Wall St. and Pennsylvania Ave. Libya has a ways to go on corruption and filth.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 12:56 | 1075449 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

Toss in London, Frankfurt, Tokyo, Paris, Rome, et al.  Then you have a valid point.

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 04:02 | 1078116 Tail Dogging The Wag
Tail Dogging The Wag's picture

You missed Moscow! How could you?

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 13:15 | 1075556 avonaltendorf
avonaltendorf's picture

You have no idea of what you're saying, don't know anything about Libya, or being deliberately obtuse. The United States is almost unique among the world's nations past and present. By our example of secular liberty, free speech, fair and frequent elections, state jurisdictions, adversarial justice and due process -- and our willingness to defend and promote civil institutions conducive to freedom -- the U.S. is a gentle giant. You want an example of corruption? Russia.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 13:19 | 1075581 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

I agree 100%.  That said, we should work on our own levels of corruption.  It's not how great the USA is.  It's how much better we can be relative only to ourselves.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 20:25 | 1077172 clymer
clymer's picture


BWAAAAHAHAHAhahaha *tear* hahahahaha*sniff* hahahaha *choke* ha* cough ha hmph heehee


"gentle Giant"


You shills have been watching too many mattress commercials.


Hint: The annoying frequency of your posts is a dead give away

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 20:29 | 1077178 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

Hint:  I have no fucking idea what you are talking about.

Request:  If you know of a way I can get paid for this, please forward along the contact information.  Otherwise, I'm sitting here watching NCAA basketball, eating Doritos and a tuna melt for free and that sucks.


Sun, 03/20/2011 - 08:04 | 1078239 clymer
clymer's picture

Umm.. Boiler? I believe I was responding to mr. 'red-eye' above you. Hence the words "gentle giant"

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 13:30 | 1075639 vxpatel
vxpatel's picture

The US is a gentle giant?

I guess native americans killed, africans enslaved/killed, 2 nuclear detonations in civilian cities, millions of dead rice farmers in vietnam, countless dead in iraq and afghanistan are just part of our peace process...?

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 13:40 | 1075701 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

Exactly, just think of how bad it could have been if we didn't handle things gently.

We should have taken Europes approach to 'gentleness' when it was the superpower of the world.  They really were civilized gentlemen.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 15:49 | 1076162 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

We should have taken Europes approach to 'gentleness' when it was the superpower of the world.


You mean like King George who enforced the Indians' right to property and kept his word on Black Loyalists?

A different time indeed.

Extortion is nice but has limitation: you can only cull the cattle you live off.

The US could not have done worse, they've managed their best.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 18:34 | 1076852 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture



Colonisation of Africa and Asia...a different time indeed

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 02:12 | 1078013 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

What about the colonization of the US?

No difference between Europeans and US citizens. Only Europeans wish to see themselves different from the US and the US citizens'wish to see themselves different from the US.

They are the same gang.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 17:55 | 1076700 GDE
GDE's picture


You mean Europe, that place you are now destroying with massive immigrations and islamisation, and also your ugly and violent American melting-pot to definitely
mix the Europeans and lower their IQ ?

We call it the great cultural and ethnic genocide by population replacement of the native Europeans. Soon we will be parcked like native Americans in a Third-World continent in our own lands. Thanks, yankees.


Sat, 03/19/2011 - 18:37 | 1076866 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

Blame your own selves. You voted for your politicians. Especially the English

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 14:19 | 1075844 Abitdodgie
Abitdodgie's picture

Amerika has been at war continually since 1960

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 15:59 | 1076212 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Actually, the US have been much more at war since inception than they have been at peace.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 16:10 | 1076267 reader2010
reader2010's picture

War is Peace. Long live warz.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 18:36 | 1076857 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Try 1689.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 13:51 | 1075747 Rusty_Shackleford
Rusty_Shackleford's picture



Gentle Giant


Now that's funny.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 16:00 | 1076217 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

US citizens have large troubles in self perception. They cant picture themselves as they are.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 16:31 | 1076360 Richard Head
Richard Head's picture

Uh, more like we don't picture ourselves the way you do.  And frankly, we don't care.  Because whatever country you're from is probably an even more filthy sewer than anything you can pin on us.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 16:35 | 1076377 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Huh, no.

The US citizens can not picture themselves as they are.

It is no surprise a propagandist can grow wealthy in the US as the demand for flattery, or more distorted report of the US citizens is high.

This starts with the birth of the US, that was a slaver nation and yet is kept perceived as a freedom loving country by the US citizens etc

It has nothing to do with what others might say about the US. It has all to do with facts and how the common US citizen can not face them.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 16:51 | 1076437 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

Don't you love a good Euro view?  Seriously, it's priceless.  You just can't make that shit up.

Jealously...just make shit up to overcome it.  It's kinda like black dudes liking fat chicks.  Just adjust your 'desires' to match availability.  Works like a charm.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 17:13 | 1076534 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

If those black persons are US citizens, I see no reason they do not share the US trouble of self perception.

They are US citizens after all. They might be even more US citizens as they worship the free country that maintains them in slavery while guaranteeing it for human beings. Meaning these Black folks have accepted not to perceive themselves as human beings.

Speaking of submission...

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 16:51 | 1076446 Iam_Silverman
Iam_Silverman's picture

"This starts with the birth of the US, that was a slaver nation and yet is kept perceived as a freedom loving country by the US citizens etc"

Hey, during their down time, those slaves were free to do as they wished (within reason)!

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 18:17 | 1076801 avonaltendorf
avonaltendorf's picture

Whoa. Britain was the slave trader, brought them in British ships to British colonies.

The Declaration of Independence said no to slavery. The Federal Convention of 1787 debated slavery, the North abhored it and the Southern States said either allow it or we won't agree to Union. It was settled two generations later. All men are created equal, one man one vote, except in England.

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 02:18 | 1078015 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

How Britain was the slave trader? Slavery was a popular movement in the US, no government coercion needed to get the US citizens to participate.

The US started in 1776 and a century later, the emancipation act came by coincidence. Lincoln's hand was forced by circumstances.

English the slave trader, another good example of the impossibility for US citizens to picture as they are.

England also did the massive land grabbing from the Indians. It is well known, US citizens can not do harm.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 18:54 | 1076917 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

Ha Another limey loser upset that he lost his widdle kingdom? Maybe a canuck who stole the frozen wasteland from the natives? No, you are not perfect or even more moral than the US citizen. Look in the mirror

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 20:15 | 1077151 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Canadians & Europeans have this frenetic habit of stopping...starting...and skipping historical time lines.

Amusing sometimes, but always less than candid.

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 02:21 | 1078020 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Debating the morality of the Europeans and the US citizens is indeed vain. The great congregation of crime... It is funny how US citizens are naturally drawn to that behaviour. When confronted with their actions and the propaganda they wish people to believe in, they naturally tend to track others' actions in hope they did worse.

However, how hard they try, they can change the nature of their actions. Others' doings are others'doings.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 16:51 | 1076430 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

Nazi Germany had a benign image of itself as well and further more, they didn't care about international image as well. It's called imperialism or "might is always right".

Now the US may not be Nazis but it sure has imperialist group think firmly embedded in its culture.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 16:56 | 1076443 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

The holocaust was a lie.  We all know that.  So were the two world wars on the European continent that cost the lives of tens of millions. 

Now, can we get back to subtle innuendo about American imperialism, obesity, pollution, slavery, and general incompetence?

Yes, yes, yes...I know, we are the military and economic superpower of the world.  But, you have to understand, that was all just luck.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 17:17 | 1076557 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

The Holocaust was not a lie.

The US funded the eugenics policies of Germany between the two wars.

The US had all an arsenal of funny ideas on how the issue of poverty, of dangerous classes should be treated, reservation camps, neutering campaign and all.

Germany was a perfect test field to run a few experiments on the practicability of the policies.

With the coming of the US, came the idea of non humans, the only way the US found to resolve its inner contradictions. Every human being is entitled to rights, if some are not, that is because they are not human beings.

Wonderful ideas that found their echo chamber in Europe with the adequate fundings with that.

Ungrateful Europeans...

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 17:39 | 1076665 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

Mega-Tard Alert!

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 18:55 | 1076928 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

So now Hitler was America's fault. LOL

Has there ever been anything bad that has occurred that is not AmeriKKKa's fault? I'm sure the world was one big orgasm of happiness, peace, prosperity, and well-being before AmeriKKKA came into existence.

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 02:26 | 1078029 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Of course,many things happened that are not of the US responsibility.

The US has nothing to do with events that happened before 1500.

So funny how US citizens when pinpointed on their responsibility, are fond of fallacies like putting words in people's mouth. US citizens are so adverse to responsibility.

On Germany, in order to dilute their responsibility in the making of Nazi Germany, the US had to craft a tale that a nation crushed by debt repaiments is abler to build a military than a nation that receives fundings to do so.

That is the act of faith required to be a full US citizen.

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 00:02 | 1077665 SparkyvonBellagio
SparkyvonBellagio's picture

Question: Why is it that nearly the Entire World seems to hate the Jews???????????

I find it very odd indeed.

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 04:49 | 1078136 Dave
Dave's picture

Only the Western world. Asians don't give a shit about that.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 18:59 | 1076947 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

Yes, American groupthink. That's why there is never any debate in America. Everyone thinks the same way. Liberals, Conservative, Libertarians, Socialists - they all think the same way.

Now Europe, that's a bastion of independent thinkers who lopve freedom. Napoleon, Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Franco etc. They are proof that the superior Europeans love their freedom and are not into groupthink.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 20:27 | 1077182 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

What the fuck?

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 02:28 | 1078036 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Everyone thinks the same way. Liberals, Conservative, Libertarians, Socialists - they all think the same way.


Thinking the same, it is very hard. Thinking a different way does not cost much.

Acting different, that is a whole different story.

The US is very monolithic in terms of actions, being on a one track course of actions.

Not many differences between the Black Bush and the White Obama in terms of actions. But they are of different skin colours. So to speak, it is US diversity.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 22:04 | 1077426 Shock and Aweful
Shock and Aweful's picture

This guy has "butthead" from Bevis and Butthead as his avatar...nuff said.


To all you who honestly believe the U.S. is the ..."Gentle Giant" (which quite honestly has to be the most foolish thing I have read on here since Harry Wanger's last post) I have some avice...Flush that propaganda out of your head and do some rational and independent thinking about the way the world works, and has worked for the last 70 years. 

True, the U.S. was built on a grand concept...which has,  over the last 250 years been systematicaly sold out to the corporations, banks, and the ultra-rich.

The U.S. does what is in the interest of the rich only..nothing more, nothing less. 


I would honestly suggest anyone beliving this "defender of freedom bullshit" read a GOOD history book - and not that shit that passes for American history that is taught in our public education system here in the U.S.


"Gentle Giant"...hahaha...that shit is still making me laugh.  More like a the local bully or a shake-down artist.


Keep on drinking the Kool-Aid.....


"You think we're wasting Arabs to help build freedom...flush our your headgear new guy...this is a fucking slaughter...and if I'm gonna get my balls blown off for a word in POONTANG"   - (From Full Metal Jacket with a little poetic license )


Sun, 03/20/2011 - 04:57 | 1078141 Dave
Dave's picture

You need to add 2 zeros on the way the world works. And it ain't gonna change.

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 05:00 | 1078144 ik999
ik999's picture

"america was built on a grand concept"


if you think freemasonry is grand.


everything the USA is today was planned before its inception.



Sun, 03/20/2011 - 05:02 | 1078145 ik999
ik999's picture

"america was built on a grand concept"


if you think freemasonry is grand.


everything the USA is today was planned before its inception.



Sat, 03/19/2011 - 17:59 | 1076726 JohnG
JohnG's picture

I don't think so, and here's why:

A recent Gallup poll (one of the more reputable polling firms) found that over 70% of respondents did not believe that the government represented the citizens.

I certainly agree with this, it's a kleptocracy.


The only thing we have here for the people are sham "elections" once in a while and more new crooks are installed.  The people have no say other than that.  It's a farce.

To put it plainly, it's not the American people; it's the goverment.

Our government lies.  Plain and simple.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 18:03 | 1076741 NOTW777
NOTW777's picture

these days considering the infected flow of deranged comments, you should feel honored to have 28 junks.  evil hisses and screams at truth

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 08:12 | 1078248 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Go hump 200+lbs up a mountain looking for goat header's, then come back and preach about truth. You might know what it mean's then.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 18:41 | 1076875 reader2010
reader2010's picture

They are gentle because they kill you slowly through GM foods?

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 05:08 | 1078149 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Having been on the sharp end of the Wall Street pointy stick, I can honestly say that you are either ignoring reality, or delusional. Libya may have been corrupt, but so is every nation in the world. However the US Federal Government is the only one that has outpost's in 160+ countries, and project's it's market with the threat of force.


If the US Federal Government were so peaceful and great, why did we watch Sudan, Mayamar, and so many other countries implode just like Libya, yet Libya is the only one we are drumming up with missiles? How about Iraq? Afghanistan? I've been to 14 countries in the name of defending freedom. I have yet to see that Freedom actually happen anywhere. All I see is the reinforcement of the Corporate hegemony around the world. Yeah, the US Federal Government is such a great institution.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 16:27 | 1076339 What does it al...
What does it all mean's picture

What is worse than plain corruptions, like Russia, China and India... is fake democracy and meritocracy like US.  I agree with you 100% on Wall Street.  And then sad thing is that only < 10 people in each organization make up the rules.  (Jaime, Lloyd..)  Most are just getting paid shut-up money 300k to 750k range and play ball.  


Wich is far more demoralizing, if you ask me..

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 16:41 | 1076399 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

It depends.

US is all about duplicity. This is how they started. They preached freedom and maintained slavery. They claimed property rights and robbed an entire continent.

US citizens could not be pleased in living in a honest, sincere, genuine world.

The taste of fake democracy, fake freedom, fake truth, fake justice is just too sweeter for them to give up on them.

Better to bury your good old straightforward dictator, you've got the US modern times model: the freedom loving, truth seeker, justice enforcer leader. Worse than the old and a denier at that.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 16:57 | 1076472 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture


I like the litany of 'fake' stuff we enjoy.

This smells German to me.  Maybe Dutch...but, I'm leaning German.  They love to play the moral police of humanity.  They just need an audience that won't instantly blow them off.  It's a tough gig.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 17:19 | 1076563 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Fake is the story of the US, a nation that preached freedom and maintained slavery.

But maybe, for US citizens, there can not be freedom if one cannot enslave another.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 20:11 | 1077137 KinorSensase
KinorSensase's picture

Well said.  The hypocrasy runs deep and it's very grating on the nerves.  I could ask you to forgive my countrymen for their arrogance, as they're peaking on empire right now, but I really shouldn't.  One would think that being in a position of great power would call for humility and grace, but that rarely seems to be the response, as evidenced by Boilmaker.  The lack of empathy is astounding, and not without consequences.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 20:31 | 1077190 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

I just pissed myself.

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 05:13 | 1078151 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

You can't really blame the people, look at the educational system. My Nephew is going into high-school this year, and he's never once been taught anything about Liberty, or what Freedom really is. He know's all about Man-Made Global Warming though. I promtly slapped the idea that men could warm the planet through breathing out of his head.

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 07:52 | 1078229 Borrowed Merkin
Borrowed Merkin's picture

Okay Barry, you had you little rant. Now go back to your brackets.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 16:59 | 1076473 What does it al...
What does it all mean's picture

Democracy broke down when Bush won on electoral votes and not popular vote.  

I am an American but I find the irony of Obama receiving Nobel Peace prize to be embarassing.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 17:07 | 1076515 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

You find it embarrassing for the Americans that he accepted it or for the Europeans who gave it to him....or, as a human being and in general.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 17:19 | 1076562 What does it al...
What does it all mean's picture

Pretty much ALL of it, the prize itself, his actions after the prize and the meaning of Peace in general.

I am also a New Yorker and works on Wall Street.  The hypocrisy goes deep, but I expected more from our first minority, change oriented, US president, Barack Hussein Obama.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 17:40 | 1076673 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

You actually believed he was anything but another politician?  Dang, that can be disappointing.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 17:09 | 1076519 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Consider it the Anti-American prize, and it will make sense.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 17:18 | 1076559 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

Ah, the jealousy medal.  Got it.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 13:20 | 1075583 Hexus
Hexus's picture

It's also the most developed country in Africa, I suppose that's why we need to put them in their place isn't it? This reactionary war mongering coming from ZeroHedge recently is sickening.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 13:25 | 1075606 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

It's also the most developed country in Africa

Is that like being the smartest person with down's syndrome?

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 14:34 | 1075893 Hexus
Hexus's picture

Did you used to bully the kid with down's syndrome at school? you seem like that type.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 14:49 | 1075925 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

Actually, I'd be the one fighting in his defense.  Keep the fucking context, asswipe.

If I would have said "the tallest midget in the room" then I'd be a bigot against 'little people' or if I would have said "the least stinky turd in the bowl" then I would have been anti-turd.

You seem like THAT kind of guy.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 19:03 | 1076958 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Nah, he was the one copying their answers.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 20:34 | 1077193 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

To be fair, I did try.  But, none of the answers made sense.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 21:02 | 1077253 Jump The Shark
Jump The Shark's picture

It's more like being the tallest midget

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 14:08 | 1075803 Meme Iamfurst
Meme Iamfurst's picture

let me guess, you are in business with Moammar Gadhafi's friend Buckroo Banzii  at the top of the page.

Cowards, both of you, are a stooge for Moammar Gadhafi's crimes against living women, children, the sick, the innocent, torchered and beaten men and someone's God will get your type sooner or later.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 14:38 | 1075900 Hexus
Hexus's picture

You are a parrot, chirping the line given to you by the MSM. Are you trying to tell me that war is peace? I'm the evil one for not wanting to bomb yet another country?

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 15:50 | 1076171 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

LOL, how did I get lumped in with "friends of Gadhafi"??

I love the interwebs.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 16:00 | 1076214 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

This site has went from a collection of 90% intelligent & clever college graduates to...well, a good cross section of society.  Enjoy the degradation.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 16:26 | 1076337 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Of course, the common US citizen's spirit does not reek of elitism... Nope.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 16:29 | 1076348 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

You ain't braggin' if you've done it.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 19:04 | 1076962 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Your job here is done.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 20:17 | 1077153 trav7777
trav7777's picture

yeah it "has went" that way since you showed up

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 22:41 | 1077501 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

Wet and Juicy. Ripe like a red decended POMOgranite. Smiles.

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 05:16 | 1078153 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Being a college Graduate myself, I can say that most of you aren't as intelligent and clever as you think you are. Arrogance of that piece of paper will often make you a lot of fiat, but in the real world, it will get you punched for being an idiot.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 16:04 | 1076233 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

living women, children, the sick, the innocent, torchered and beaten men and someone's God will get your type sooner or later.


All illegal combatants...

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 11:46 | 1075161 Tater Salad
Tater Salad's picture

Yeah, tells you something when the French are the ones leading...Obama is a disaster, my 8 year old could do a better job leading than this bafoon!

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 11:50 | 1075185 I am a Man I am...
I am a Man I am Forty's picture

only 3% of the oil exports from Libya go to the US; France, China, and Italy are the largest recipients, and it's all about the oil

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 12:36 | 1075378 dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

for those interested, a list of each country's military assets in the area.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 19:05 | 1076968 snowball777
snowball777's picture

I was wondering why it wasn't Italian planes doing the Red Baron thing...did the French get lost on their way to Algiers again?


Sat, 03/19/2011 - 22:33 | 1077490 NotAlwaysSo
NotAlwaysSo's picture


Oil you don't use, right?

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 23:00 | 1077522 SheHunter
SheHunter's picture

Thus the reason Vive La france led the air charge? we have been fighting a war somewhere with someone for every moment since I was born.  MIC

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 11:51 | 1075193 BeerGoggles
BeerGoggles's picture

Better than the US leading anything.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 13:05 | 1075487 tj3
tj3's picture

It's not us this time, about time someonelse gets shit on their shoes.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 13:09 | 1075532 Gene Parmesan
Gene Parmesan's picture

It's just getting started.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 13:29 | 1075645 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture


Yes, it will be interesting to see how well the French handle this.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 16:06 | 1075722 Pegasus Muse
Pegasus Muse's picture

I want to see if the French Foreign Legion is still a competent fighting force.  Maybe they can take out that psychotic camel jockey.  

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 12:37 | 1075379 SamThomas
SamThomas's picture

Not ridiculous at all, the French have maintained a very competent and professional military complete with the only non-American big-deck nuclear carrier (not without its problems), a full complement of boomer and attack subs, and fighter and attack aircraft sourced nearly 100% domestically. 

They can benefit from co-ordination with the U.S., of course, particularly satellite intelligence, but given their proximity to Libya and the long French history in north Africa, it makes sense for them to be leading this initiative.  Frankly, I am glad somebody besides the U.S. is willing to take charge for a change.  Aren't we all a little tired of having to be up to our necks in the problems of other countries?

Good for the French.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 13:01 | 1075478 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

Open mic night?

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 13:12 | 1075544 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Try the veal.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 14:50 | 1075936 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture kind of clever humor.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 13:17 | 1075572 avonaltendorf
avonaltendorf's picture

Sam is right on the facts and analysis.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 20:31 | 1077191 clymer
clymer's picture

You mean it looks like the globalists have finally gotten the French to bite at the dangling carrot. Boy are they in for a rude awakening; Sarkozy = fail


no good can come from this

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 05:19 | 1078155 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Yeah, sure until reality kick's in and everyone realizes that air strikes do no good without boot's on the ground. Have fun sending your children off to die for a banker's account.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 14:28 | 1075869 chubbar
chubbar's picture

It can't be WW111 without, you know, other countries fighting each other. Don't you think that is the point of it being someone other than the U.S. leading the charge here?

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 14:58 | 1075965 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

We're just going to skip over the other 109 world wars? 

I'm signing you up for the Nobel Peace Prize.  You truly are building bridges of peace.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 16:00 | 1076218 edotabin
edotabin's picture

Yes, but to act in such a fashion without the approval of Van Rompuy? I mean come on..... What is this world coming to?

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 13:16 | 1075563 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

Go away or I shall taunt you a second time!


Sat, 03/19/2011 - 14:01 | 1075776 Meme Iamfurst
Meme Iamfurst's picture

Golly, gee Mr. Buckaroo Banzai sound like your are a big supporter of Mr. Moammar Gadhafi's terror squads.  Bet you make a lot of money in Libya with him in control, and now your world collides with the French republic.

Here is hoping they eat your lunch and dinner too and put you in your place.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 16:39 | 1076347 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

do you think Gadhafi is any worse, either short or long term, than the propped up Western Govt of Afghanistan? As soon as America exits its 'policing' of Afghan' the sham regime the US supports there will be legging it (100% guaranteed) what's the end-game here? Maybe have the whole of Arabia and Africa propped up Western approved regimes yes? the peoples have any say in this???

The delusional eaton educated village idiot David Cameron, British PM, said today about Libya it must "comply with the will of the United Nations". Quite apart from the global Govt overtones that get up my nose there's just the little fact the UN are an unelected undemocratic cabal of crones (see also the EU, IMF etc).

At what point has anyone in the world ever given the UN the mandate to "inforce its will" on any countries affairs?  

In fact has the UN any mandate from any of the people of the waring factions in Libya itself?

We've reached the stage of being ruled by unaccountable cabals, unelected 'leaders', with policies on how another soveriegn nation should settle its affairs that's got no citizens consent anywhere on the planet ...including the citizens of the country in question! 

Cameron (a clown who wears a suit and ex-Barclays Bank) himself was only elected by 24% of the British electorate. I doubt his views would even hit single figure approval in Libya itself for what he's gibbering on about! The Western elite are delusional, dangerous and an ever more expensive liability 'policing the world' with no democratic mandate to do so

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 16:47 | 1076427 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Cameron (a clown who wears a suit and ex-Barclays Bank) himself was only elected by 24% of the British electorate.


Dont worry about that. On this site, plenty are ready to support that 24pc is a majority, that democracy is mobrule and that the 24pc is going to vote themselves the wealth of the minority, the 66 pc other, the ten left being rag tag that must be eradicated.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 18:14 | 1076787 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

it would only take 5% or 10% of the population to refuse to pay The Parsite Club (Govt) a slice of their income (taxes) to collapse the entire State.

the State was a fabricated fantasy construct by a bunch of parasites in a room. America had no national and very little local Govt in the beginning. It never needed it.  People don't nee Govt. But the parasites constructed the myth, funded by parsites and then the peoples own money step by step.

We simply don't realise what a fantasy Govt is. We also don't realise just how simple and easy it is to 'deconstruct' this delusional human realm. All we need is 5% to 10% of the populace (more than the State can jail or police) to refuse taxation. Once you refuse to give these parasites a slice of your income the whole fantasy world of Washongton implodes in on its vacuous fantasy self. 

No tax. No Govt. Simple as

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 19:12 | 1076990 Ima anal sphincter
Ima anal sphincter's picture

Totally agree. Could we ever get that 5-10%? Keep pissing off the people and you'll get A LOT worse events than just not paying taxes.


Sun, 03/20/2011 - 06:44 | 1078182 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

Yes we could get 5-10% signing up to a 'Zero Tax' public mandate. Remember nearly 50% of the electorate don't vote. Why? Most of them have contempt for politics and most of them believe voting "makes no difference... nothing will change". They are absolutely correct. In fact the non-voters are the sane ones because they have learnt voting does make no difference. The Govt parasite machine does not and will not change.

It is the sane 50% of voters we need to appeal to, not the insane zombie sheep that vote, lambs to the slaughter to endorse the parasites with a public mandate... having said that the Tea Party 'small Govt' is a good target group to get signaturies 

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 05:32 | 1078160 Dave
Dave's picture

I would like to see that happen. However there's one minor detail that needs to be dealt with. Since +/- 40% of the population lives off the gov't. what do you think the result would be if it crashed? Ugly would be a grave understatement and those who were perceived to have caused it would perish in the maelstrom.

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 07:15 | 1078186 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

Who cares what happens to the 40% that lives off the Govt?'s the same liberal idealism by extension that leads to this ongoing farce of 'policing' Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya or pissing $1 Trillion of our wealth away in foreign aid to Africa over the decades (which even they don't want anymore). None of it works, ever.

We have one duty only, to look after ourselves. Support your family, friends sometimes and drop the odd change in a charity box. That's it.

As soon as you start down the line of 'helping society' you're back in the shit that robs your pockets for Govt doing this and Govt intervening in that. Charity creates dependency. Social security encourages the expansion of sloth and leeches using our money. Like socialism it weakens the able, encourages the disabled and drags both sides down into the toilet (an ever decreasing circle of liberal ignorance)   

The 40% have to be weened off our money and have to deal with it themselves. Like responsible self-sufficient adults. Pelosi and Barney Frank have no right to our money to bailout losers and leeches. Sort your own fuking lives out. Charity does not work. Bailouts do not work. Govt intervention does not work, it's a vast liberal idea failure zone

Individual self-suffeciency (take care of yourself) is how life and society has always worked best... in fact it's the ONLY way that works

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 14:49 | 1075943 ToNYC
ToNYC's picture


Viva La France!

Qaddafi has a choice between exiting stage left as Allende or Sadat, but visions of Bush I sticks attack on the Iraqis in DW One comes to mind as well.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 15:08 | 1076012 msohn
msohn's picture

Thank you to our French (and British) allies for showing leadership in defending the Libyan freedom fighters from certain slaughter. Shame on our administration for failing to show any leadership at all in this pivotal moment in modern Middle Eastern history!

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 15:29 | 1076072 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

Right, and if the American would have went in first we would be imperialistic bullies slaughtering innocent civilians with oppressive force.

I've seen this movie.

The French will be outta there quickly and leave the heavy lifting to the Yankees, as usual.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 17:22 | 1076574 NOTW777
NOTW777's picture


Sat, 03/19/2011 - 17:44 | 1076678 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

And, just as I thought.  The French fly a sortie, shoot at a tank, and the US (and UK) launch $63M worth of tomahawk missles (110) immediately thereafter.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 19:30 | 1077050 PeterB
PeterB's picture

Are you a welder? I thought you went to college

Sat, 03/19/2011 - 20:36 | 1077199 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

I actually did have a course (metallurgy) where I did some arc and acetylene welding in a lab once.  Thanks for asking!

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