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Italian Scientists Claim To Have Discovered Nickel-Hydrogen Cold Fusion, Create Copper As Byproduct
According to PhysOrg.com, two Italian scientists from the University of Bologna have taken on one of physics' historically most discredited concepts, cold fusion, and have actually succeeded in creating a sustainable reaction. Aside from the major implications of the energy market should this be validated and recreated (an issue that buried the original Cold Fusion discovery by Stanley Pons and Martin Fleishmann), one of the more economically important side effects of this purported rediscovery is that one of the byproducts of the reaction is none other than recently uber-bubbleicious copper. One wonders what the implications for the copper supply and demand curves (and equilibrium price) would be should the reaction documented by Andrea Rossi and Sergio Focardi be proven to not be a hoax. Is modern day alchemy the only thing that can dethrone copper from its historic price highs?
From Physorg:
Few areas of science are more controversial than cold fusion, the hypothetical near-room-temperature reaction in which two smaller nuclei join together to form a single larger nucleus while releasing large amounts of energy. In the 1980s, Stanley Pons and Martin Fleishmann claimed to have demonstrated cold fusion - which could potentially provide the world with a cheap, clean energy source - but their experiment could not be reproduced. Since then, all other claims of cold fusion have been illegitimate, and studies have shown that cold fusion is theoretically implausible, causing mainstream science to become highly speculative of the field in general.
Despite the intense skepticism, a small community of scientists is still investigating near-room-temperature fusion reactions. The latest news occurred last week, when Italian scientists Andrea Rossi and Sergio Focardi of the University of Bologna announced that they developed a cold fusion device capable of producing 12,400 W of heat power with an input of just 400 W. Last Friday, the scientists held a private invitation press conference in Bologna, attended by about 50 people, where they demonstrated what they claim is a nickel-hydrogen fusion reactor. Further, the scientists say that the reactor is well beyond the research phase; they plan to start shipping commercial devices within the next three months and start mass production by the end of 2011.
Rossi and Focardi say that, when the atomic nuclei of nickel and hydrogen are fused in their reactor, the reaction produces copper and a large amount of energy. The reactor uses less than 1 gram of hydrogen and starts with about 1,000 W of electricity, which is reduced to 400 W after a few minutes. Every minute, the reaction can convert 292 grams of 20°C water into dry steam at about 101°C. Since raising the temperature of water by 80°C and converting it to steam requires about 12,400 W of power, the experiment provides a power gain of 12,400/400 = 31. As for costs, the scientists estimate that electricity can be generated at a cost of less than 1 cent/kWh, which is significantly less than coal or natural gas plants.
Several videos highlighting and supposedly validating the discovery have been released which we reproduce below, primarily for the benefit of our Italian-speaking readers, as they have yet to be translated in other languages.
And before the skeptics scream this is nothing but another scientific fraud, here are some of the third party reactions to the finding.
- Hope Grows as Journals Weigh in on Italian Cold Fusion Breakthrough (link)
- Specifics of Andrea Rossi’s “Energy Catalyzer” Test, University of Bologna, 1/14/2001 (link)
- Directory:Andrea A. Rossi Cold Fusion Generator (link)
- Rossi and Focardi LENR Device: Probably Real, With Credit to Piantelli (link)
- Rossi Discovery – What to Say? (link)
- Rossi and Focardi LENR Device: The Melich and Macy Reports (link)
- Focardi and Rossi Energy Catalyzer first jan 14 demo videos and summary of an online Question and Answer session from Jan 15 (link)
Obviously, should this discovery be validated by the global community and should wholesale cheap energy production based on this principle be adopted, the implications for the global economy will be unparalleled.
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You need to leave. This place is full of rednecks and secretaries and waitresses and you have gold to short.
Let me guess. Are you a Jersey guido?
No just yesterday you were complaining about how dumb we are and you were going to leave.
I hope you didn't take offense and run home to mommy.
Why would that make you...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLnWf1sQkjY&ob=av3el
Everyone knows the Cartel controls energy. These Italians should stick with Pizza & Pasta if they know what’s good for them. As for the copper… not to worry.
Seriously. They refuse to use plastic cards for all of their purchases and now cold fusion? I think that it is time for the NWO to poison a few more Italian rivers and dump some more radioactive waste into the sea until these guys finally get it.
Yeah – those Italian scientists just don’t get it...but they will. Maybe the cartel will poison em up some more but right now its full bore on the U.S. livestock who are pretty much going down without a whimper. Some men you just can’t reach…. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnO9Jyz82Ps&feature=related
Cold fusion? Italian scientists? Thats all.the info i need. Go long.the options now on margin! Hurry before it is too late!
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I was thinking of how I could fire off a funny reply. Thanks for doing it for me.
I take you believe Fermi was american?
i just posted this link in your earlier post ....how strange...!
http://www.fullmoon.nu/articles/art.php?id=tal
"Your potential paths to this bonanza include the control of nuclear fusion - which you only began to explore in the context of potential mass extinction weapons and nano engineered solar energy harvesting or hydrogen cycling. "
Only problem is the fuel is aborted fetuses...let the drama commence.
If there was any truth to their claims, world markets would have collapsed by now. But alas, all is well, nothing to see here.
The guy in the red sweater looks very disturbed. I wouldn't trust him to make me a sandwich at the deli, much less CF.
That's because he has been up for days doing math equations you moran!
And when he finally hit the right formula, it felt like winning the lotto. Of course he is going to look distrubed,
It's the Einstein look. I wouldn'y buy a sandwich from Einstine either, OK maybe a bagel. LOL
I agree, it's a total waste to engage scientists in making sandwiches.
It's more likely the cold fusion breakthrough will be based on palladium than nickel. Keep an eye on the other, more credible researchers. lenr-canr.org is a good resource.
LENR does not seem to be cold fusion...
In the 1930s, engineers and physicists "persuasively" demonstrated (theoretically, w/equations and fancy proofs) that it was physically impossible to fly faster than the speed of sound...i.e., to break the sound "barrier."
Im not saying these guys have done it, but neither would I be so quick to dismiss it either.
Lots of things we think we know to be demonstrably true...just aren't. In the fullness of time some crank/iconoclast overturns accepted scientific dogma.
Here's a link from a year or so ago on the same topic:
http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=XNC1WRBQ2SY14QSNDLSCKHA?articleID=216200272no, they didn't.
Bullets had been breaking the sound barrier for decades
The end of a bullwhip also goes faster than the speed of sound, hence the cracking sound.
old story, many times replicated!
latest example out of Germany here:
http://pesn.com/2010/12/25/9501743_Anton_HHO_self-running_in_elevator/
It's really simple to reproduce that. Today you can buy most of the parts prefabricated. I guess necessity is the mother of all inventions. Withing a year America will transform dramatically, I guess out of necessity.
I love when scientists cover their experiments with aluminum foil to obviously hide the process. Come on, I can't take that seriously, at least show me the bubbles of the generator!
An input of 400W to produce 12,400W?
I assume that takes into account converting potential energy during the process, otherwise you're violating conservation of energy. Not that I'm a scientist, but I find that when something irks your common sense, there's something wrong.
People don't usually talk about the "potential energy" inherent to the mass of an atom, but we all know what it is.
e = mc^2
If it's fusion, there'd be no violation. The mass of a Cu atom is less than the mass of 1Ni + 5H, so it all makes sense.
But I'm pretty skeptical. It's very easy to settle this stuff, which always concerns me. Give access to the hardware to someone else to run the same experiment. Duh.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
So here is a question that recently started bugging me. i'm sure enough ZHers with physics degrees will tell me.
isn't a nuclear bomb an example of a massively over-unity reaction?
Energy in is a few kilo's of explosives. Energy is a few kilotons (at least).
ORI
http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2011/01/21/accidental-lives/
yes, it is such an example. So is that giant nuclear fireball in the sky we call Mr. Sun.
Energy is not measured in kilotons.
Multiply it by the speed of light squared, and it can be.
Google "Zero point energy".
Tom Bearden's website has a wealth of information. http://www.cheniere.org/
"There is enough energy inside the space in this empty cup to
boil all the oceans of the world. This is a fact well known to
the scientific community, and was, for example, a favorite
quote of Nobel Prize winning physicist Richard Feynman.
Two Nobel prizes were awarded in 1957 to Lee and Yang for
substantiating the extraction process for this energy."
— Tom Bearden
As a scientific concept, the existence of zero point energy is not controversial although the ability to harness it is. In particular, perpetual motion machines and other power generating devices supposedly based on zero point energy are highly controversial and, in many cases, in violation of some of the fundamental laws of physics. No device claimed to operate using zero point energy has been demonstrated to operate as claimed. No plausible description of a device drawing useful power from a source of zero point energy has been given. Thus, current claims to zero point energy-based power generation systems have the status of pseudoscience.[9]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-point_energy
yah, good stuff. feynman had the idea, he had the groove.
them oxygen thieves in power need us all to suck the fossilboob for awhile longer....they knew that back in tesla's day. then we he passed, they were in his office faster'n shit thru a goose grabbing all his papers/folder/notes/doodles then POOF!
if ya wanna take an interesting, entertaining rabbit-hole journey/read/digression, read up on adam trombly. star prodigy of the BUCK....bucky fuller that is,...he developed/built/ran a cold fusion machine years ago....then the goons show up, take his stuff and give him that look of"shut up or die"......and his pappy was .gov or company and he's got thrilling stories of alien tech and what they've been up to. freaky. and there aint no wikipedia entree on him .....and i kinda believe it all. bucky liked him and ya cant mess with his balls.
yah, good stuff. feynman had the idea, he had the groove.
them oxygen thieves in power need us all to suck the fossilboob for awhile longer....they knew that back in tesla's day. then we he passed, they were in his office faster'n shit thru a goose grabbing all his papers/folder/notes/doodles then POOF!
if ya wanna take an interesting, entertaining rabbit-hole journey/read/digression, read up on adam trombly. star prodigy of the BUCK....bucky fuller that is,...he developed/built/ran a cold fusion machine years ago....then the goons show up, take his stuff and give him that look of"shut up or die"......and his pappy was .gov or company and he's got thrilling stories of alien tech and what they've been up to. freaky. and there aint no wikipedia entree on him .....and i kinda believe it all. bucky liked him and ya cant mess with his balls.
It wouldn't be the first time Italians started a renaissance...
+++
The Roman empire was built on many incredible discoveries. The most important was probably hydraulic-setting cement which they could use in and underwater. It must have been viewed as something like magic. What they were able to build and accomplish was staggering. Another army thought they were safe because of a wide and fairly fast running river. The Romans could build a bridge in a day or two that you could probably drive a light tank over.
The Dark Ages occurred when Rome fell and much of that knowledge was lost. The western world recovered when the Holy Roman Empire grew. I would never underestimate what the Italians can come up with especially knowing the technology in Formula 1 and road going Ferraris.
The construction of the dome in the Florence Cathedral finished in 1436 AD pretty much defies physics. It has been sitting there and has held up for about 600 years. I would never sell the Italians short.
I think that civilizations have always been like that. I think that the Egyptian elite had technology that was far beyond what we think that they had. I believe that they had superconductors, batteries, exotic matter, lights and all kinds of cool stuff. If our society collapsed then within two generations how many people would know how to make a stealth bomber or a gravity resistant device?
superconductors? The Egyptians?
Dude, I dunno what the egyptians had, but I do know what you have, and that's a metric assload of crack that you've been smoking.
Look up the baghdad battery.. If the Egyptians used torches and candles to light up the tombs they were decorating there would be remnant of soot from the flames.
That, and the fact that the torches and people doing the wall carvings would consume so much oxygen that they'd both go "out"..
LOL. Trav you always give me a good laugh.
Interesting, brilliant... but generations away.
"dry steam" ...?
LOL wut???
Dry steam = superheated. It's pressurized, so it's actually above atmospheric boiling point. The excess thermal can be converted into mechanical energy, example, via turbine. For more details contact a local Machinist Mate or Boiler Tech.
Dry steam is necessay for turbines. If the steam turns into wet steam at any point in it's conversion from converting heat to work the water droplets turn the turbine into a break your turbine soup.
a/k/a "live steam"
I've often wondered whether a "steam chair" execution method wouldn't be a powerful deterrent.
If it is recreated by peers and it can be done cheaply then it will be a huge deal...until then..
I almost bought a buttload of copper awhile back....glad I held off....just in case.....
I thought copper was about 1/3 the price of nickel, so if nickel is converted to some isotope of copper, then it's a loss, like converting gold to lead, reverse alchemy. But that's a small price to pay for unlimited energy.
I hope it's real. I mean, for example Nixon canceled funding for fantastic nuclear technologies like clean[er] thorium based reactors back in the 70's because, well, he wanted plutonium nukes, 10s of thousands of plutonium nukes, and those huge expensive breeder reactors that converted U235 to Pu239. Now India is picking up that thorium research and pushing it forward.
Its almost as if the US is not investing in new paradigms that could change the way that things are done. Ooops, I forgot about military drones.
Assuming it works(unlikely) wonder how much energy is available from converting a gram of nickel?
Please...you got to be shittting me..... cold fusion.. I think JMK thought this up, along with his economic theories
I am very sceptical about this one . Let them try to publish a peer reviewed paper in a serious scientific magazine first .
This is the first post on ZH.com that I have felt a bit embarrassed about. I understand that it's tough to be a jack-of-all-trades and not come across with a bit of egg on your face, on occasion, but, TD, you oughta take this foolishness off of your website ASAP. It's not about credibility, mind you, it's about credulousness.
Quick view of the obvious:
1. Everything is a secret. Big warning.
2. Why even have a public "demonstration" if the technology is a secret? What's the point? Any competent sophomore chem E major could replicate their "demonstration" with a few days of preparation. It's scientifically inane to "demonstrate" something that is secret.
3. They are going to "start production" within a few months but the image of the device has aluminum foil wrapped all over the place? Is anybody else surprised that the researchers aren't wearing bras on their heads (nod to Weird Science).
4. The links TD provided are laughable. Three are from the same website. At least one is from a cold-fusion dedicated site. These are "3rd party reactions"?
5. Seriously, it's quite bizarre to me that the folks running this website are cognitively acute enough to understand the myriad details of the great economic scam that is going on, but are willing to even consider that the snake oil posted above could be real.
Folks, it's a fantasy, just like perpetual 4% GDP growth.
Just . . . . . . .WOW.
+1 (see my post below).
Maybe Tyler assumes that his readers will be rational enough to work things out for themselves. Critical thinking should be encouraged.
What? That's like arguing that the guy in the machine shop cut off his fingers as a warning to his peers. Come out of the dream.
Re-read the conflicts/full-disclosure policy of ZH.
Suck my balls, Frankie Boy. Good luck with your censorship crusade.
I must admit that the rearrangement of my name did make me chuckle.
Ya ! That's why Tyler has the math problem thing before you can post, to stretch that muscle in your head exercising.
Where do I go to cancel my membership ?
You might live longer if you switched to decaf and stopped taking the minutia so seriously, pal
Well, if TD meant this as a joke post, then it's not within my scope to appreciate. If TD had added a "We're saved!" at the end, I would have found it quite hilarious. Seems like quite a bit of work for a joke that nobody seems to be getting. Maybe it's an inside joke and Marla is laughing her hot ass off somewhere. On the other hand, you've got guys on this thread imagining these scientists will be assassinated and the technology buried. I hear that they invented grass that stops growing at the perfect height, but the lawnmower companies killed it. BTW, it says "patent pending" for the cold fusion technology, which means a full disclosure is already sitting at, presumably, the Italian patent office. Might might it a bit tough to suppress.
And uh, living longer isn't high on my priority list. Jack Lalane died today. 94.
Could not have articulated it better , especially #4 . There are also rumours that these guys are associated with Randel Mills (blacklightpower.com) who has scammed more than 1 investor
"The Company recently released the finalized Grand-Unified Theory of Classical Physics"
???
It's known as "the long con" ... you could look it up.
Yep, ZeroHedge reaching new lows today. Sad to see the total demise of a site that was doing good work just a couple of years ago. This looks like either a "made you click" article to produce revenue for the site (ala Joe Wiesenthal over at clusterstock), or else the lunatics are truly in charge of the asylum.
I think this guy has it right:
http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1964112&cid=34983290
+1
occasisonally tyler needs to get clicks per page up. the site has overhead.
The global warming articles are starting next week; the funniest thing of all is the occasional poster remonstrating with someone to the effect that this is a blog for intelligent people. I don't even bother anymore; if you tell the readers the simple facts of any matter whatsoever, you just get jumped on by nineteen sub-literate morons.
Tyler - this is a new low for you. I mean really - come on.
I'd hate to give up watching ZH, because there's occasionally some really good info that comes from this site. But it's getting increasingly hard to find it having to weed through all the garbage like this.
Why is it garbage? I don't think TD is giving any credence to the story, he's simply reporting it. And why? Because regardless of whether or not it's a hoax, it has an implicit connection to the financial markets. And lest we forget, this is a site dedicated to investing.
Well said. Even if there's only a 1% chance that this is for real, the implications are staggering enough to make it worth reporting.
Not really. The chances are a lot less than 1% (like 0%, which is technically infinitely less).
When ZH goes off-topic the Tylers should probably only re-post things from reputable journals. And press appearances would be banned as a rule. Anybody can say anything they want at a press conference, it's totally 100% meaningless until someone else says the same thing.
Sorry, but that "news" item has about as much implicit connection to financial markets as does my Grandma emptying her giant plastic penny jug.
(and she died about 20 years ago)
As I say - ZH occasionally has some good info in it. But just because ZH readers are assumed to be able to sift through the garbage doesn't mean that we actually want to. Part of the appeal of any given blog or news source is the authors' ability to do the sifting beforehand and only put out information that's meaningful and correct. If I wanted to sift through every piece of information in the world I'd just do a Google search on "the" and browse through the results.
if you dont see the connection to the financial markets of something like this, as
absurd as it is, you should perhaps research "surplus energy" and "complex societies"
before getting back to your "hunting and gathering"
Tyler doesn't believe a word of it. He just posts stuff like this so all the ZHers can have a field day kicking it and laughing their asses off.
+
Take that, you favored trading human rights violators!
I can already see Ferrari car, zero emission and copper producing..how nice.
Great. More copper for meth heads to steal.
I see Blythe on the phone now setting up an "accident" to happen to those scientists. Or perhaps a payoff to see the discovery "go away".
The only issue Ni is less abundant than Co. But hey, be the above true, it would be wonderful, especially for us.
The more there are alternatives to 'C' based energy sources, the better :)
ref:
http://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/pubs/commodity/#N
Hydrogen nucleii? That's different from dry steam. I'm no chemist, but it might require fission power to get the hydogen to decouple from Oxygen in the water. no?
You don't need nuclear power to break a chemical bond. Electrolysis is very well known.
This is something like Petrovoltaics and how gold can be created through material-mutation. Watch the video around 3:00 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTpqx620Am4
In another video from the documentry he talks about how the CIA confronted him and told him that he'd be dead if he produced gold. No wonder why the gov hates gold.
-- yeah, I read a research paper a few years ago, apparently three nuclear physicist were making gold in their lab back in the 1950's, they all died "early". I'll see if I can locate that paper.
Unshielded nuclear reactors will do that to you.
oy gevalt
sounds like someone wants to load up copper...
Time to go long nickel and short copper?
One of the two has a criminal record for apparently trying to illegally export gold... Coincidence?
Is he from Tunisia?
Given the state of Italian finances, it is a definite sign of his intelligence.
lol nice one
Well, I bet they will be selling stock in no time and looking for homes in countries with no extradition treaties!
On the miniscule chance it turns out to be true, I would take out large insurance policies on both of them. Great investment. The word "assasin" is an Arabic word...from the land of oil!
Did you see the picture of their device? It looks like something a kid brought to school for show and tell.
That's why it's called COLD FUSION.
I have a container of cold liquid bubbling away on my desk right this minute. No inputs of any kind. I just popped the lid off and it started bubbling away. But there is no way I'm telling you what brand of soda pop it is.
Come on Tyler. Do some research before posting tinfoil wrapped in a thin veneer of believability.
This is shite, and anyone with the slightest understanding the complexity of measuring energy gain/loss in these types of reactions will tell you why it's easy to jump to a positive conclusion. The margin of error in reactions involving the measurement of volume of wet steam is insanely high. And Rossi knows this *well*.
The onus of proof lies with the team in Bologna, and they have not come close yet. Furthermore they have seemingly chosen methodologies with high margins of error -- and different, superior methodologies could have been utilized which have higher rates of accuracy.
And while ad hominem reactions may be inappropriate -- I believe it is warranted to note that Rossi has a criminal record and has lied under oath more than once.
This is almost assuredly crap. Does the possibility of a proof exist? Yes. Is it likely? IMHO - You are more likely to get hit by lighting while sleeping in your bed.
The publicity of making such claims however, is enormous. ...As is the traffic which results from relaying such claims on one's blog.
Right Tyler?
I am not sure, but I think this post is in the area of comic relief and not a serious technical announcement of any sort. I like it for that reason, anyway.
The guy running this site walks the same line all news places do. Accuracy and reasonable thought vs advertising revenue.
He is getting a lot of comments with this story and clicks are a part of that, but he has to date shown fairly solid commitment to accuracy and reasonableness. I think he stepped over the wacko line with this story, too, but it's a rare mistake so shrug.
"but he has to date shown fairly solid commitment to accuracy and reasonableness"
This is very debatable, and is core to the criticism of his work.
LOL as if US made cars are reliable
Amazing how full of themselves so many here are - yet don't understand that if they do have a reaction such as described it would have to run years to make enough copper for a penny. The nickel will just be slightly polluted with copper when removed after 6 months. That's really going to move the market folks.
Could you show your work on that calculation? XD
The way I see it, 1g of hydrogen should fuse about 5g of Ni into Cu.
I'm rusty, but that's the way I'd mole it out...
Close enough - but how much of the hydrogen is actually converted? Any significant amount would create far more energy than they are talking about.
The prediction would be that you'd convert it ALL but that the actual mass change would be miniscule. The protons of the hydrogen don't "go away"--they are what get added to the nuclei of the Ni to form the Cu.
The energy released is from the very tiny change in mass that occurs because you're screwing around with nuclei and strong/weak attraction forces and neutrinos emission and a whole bunch of stuff that PhDs talk about.
For a layman such as myself, I just know this: the difference between the mass of 4 H atoms and 1 He atom is very small, but there is one, and that's where the energy from the conversion occurs.
Eh, I think the copper byproduct is cu-59 which degrades into radioactive nickel, so don't get too excited!
I don't believe in the "accidently version" of history. Therefore I am quick to search for motive s in any unfolding event of the day, regardless of weather said event of the day is true or false. In this case, my first imagined thought was, .........next month some US scientist will claim that they created gold bullion out of silver/ copper and creptininat mix.
You the type, from Harvard , employed by JPM. Thought dismissed.
Off topic.
I am very pleased of Tyler's hour by hour coverage of the Julian Assange story that unfolded this month. Generally I come to ZH to get it first, or in most cases, only get it here. So when I seen Julian Assange, on the cover of time magizine that week with some bs story about America's 90,000 classified secrets, .....I come to realize that Julian is a pawn of the establishmnet. Nuh said.
If you "know" how to read TIME magazine, you will find snippets, in which the future is accuately predicted! That is because TIME is the establishmnets biggest piece of brain washing/ propagnada, tool available.
I dont have the time to give examples, right now, but turst me, do yourself a favor and pick up a hard copy from 7-11 and read it, with this mind set in mind. This "feeling" i have experienced several times, the last being with the issue with Julian on the Cover!
A massive leak, and no attempt to keep it off the cover of TIME! What a fucking joke.
LOL as if US made cars are reliable
Thanks for this, Tyler, and f- the critics. I they want to display their awesome critical thinking skills, ask them to explain who Treasury sold $2 Trillion in debt to last year. You want to talk about over unity, start there. If you believe the Chinese have morphed into Brits, maybe you shouldn't laugh at nickel morphing into copper.
You see folks, this is just a STORY right now, you'll have plenty of time to display you're ignorance later.
In the meantime, you'd do well to look back at the history of electro-chemistry. The repeatable results are more impressive than you know. You can even duplicate them in your garage if you are so inclined. Of course, scoffing makes you look so much smarter.....
Some quick napkin math, and I get something like 15,000-25,000 tons of nickel converted to copper would yield as much energy as the US consumes each year. About 1% of world nickel production and 0.1% of world copper production. Such a process would have a far bigger impact on Oil/Coal/Nat Gas that it would ever have on Copper or Nickel prices.
Thanks for crunching some numbers, Ninja. Too many people claim to "know" stuff without actually checking the math.
OMG you're funny ! Crunching the numbers ! The number is zero ! Zero; do you get it ? No copper will be produced. Wake up for Christ's sake. Ask a competent junior college student to explain it to you.
I'm just hoping for that huge fucking explosion in Chain Reaction.
http://www.grindtv.com/surf/video/alana_blanchard_1/#46335
Whoops that isn't it.. (really good at the 40 second mark though)
Here it is..
http://movieclips.com/aQqEm-chain-reaction-movie-outrunning-the-explosion/
Oh those heady days back in '89 with star-in-a-jar and all the implications therein. We thought the established order had been dealt a mortal wound. Things began to unravel into '93 when I was at ICCF4 in wounderfull Maui sharing a condo with non-other than Steven Jones (co-discoverer, recanter, un-recanter, and 9/11 truther). OMG those days were incredible.
Now there WERE some anomolous fusion byproduct claims - particularly at Texas A&M. None of this panned out or survived any critical peer review process.
There have been a number of other guys that have stepped forward with alternative cold fusion devices (even using nickle and light water). Nothing after 30 years.
i hear they are FURIOUS over at jpm. the lamestreamers they pay off got the headline wrong. the by-product created is SILVER goddammit, SILVER!
Big deal. Doesn't our president have a unicorn that shits gold?
I predict that anyone who drinks a bottle of Focardi & Rossi will end up with a bad hangover.
Not yet, but there is a funny story, dating back to the renaissance, about Bertoldo, an ingenious character living off expedients, who wanted to sell to a farmer a donkey who could shit gold coins. The farmer obviously would not believe this so Bertoldo told him to wait and see for himself, some talk and some wine after, the donkey eventually relieved himself and -oh, wonder!- it proved true, the wonder donkey would shit gold coins! The farmer paid a huge sum to get ownership of this wonder of the nature. Some days later he came back upset to Bertoldo, wanting to kill him, for the donkey had quit shitting gold coins immediately after being purchased so Bertoldo asked him "yes, but what are you feeding him?" and the farmer "Hay and the best oat, of course!" "That's the problem!"-told him Bertoldo-"you need to feed him on gold coins, of course, if you want him to shit gold coins!"... Maybe worth to tell to Bernie before sleep?
Karpen's cell is another device that seems to put out more energy out than went in. It's a battery in a Romanian museum that has been putting out 1v for 60 years.
they developed a cold fusion device capable of producing 12,400 W of heat power with an input of just 400 W.
Reminds me of that friend in Nigeria who just needed a little money to give me access to millions in unclaimed cash.
There is a higher probability of spontaneous nuclear fusion occurring in my ass than there is that this claim is legit.
If you're going to try and put one over on us, you couldn't come up with anything more original, credible, and pleasing? Cold-Angelina-Jolie-magically-appears-naked-in-my-cubicle-after-lunch or something like that?
Skepticism is understandable but unfounded refusal without first considering the facts is nothing but small minded ignorance. Do you have any idea how much power is locked into physical matter? Ever read any of Einstein's work?
Yep, special relativity is amazing. His work on photoelectric effect is actually probably more important, but doesn't get top billing because it isn't as cool. Never really could get general that well. I couldn't come up with the stress-energy tensor even for anything as simple as the neighborhood around a black hole, I'm afraid.
In any case, I'll be glad to lay whatever odds you choose to name that this is not cold fusion. I try never to let my education get in the way of common sense.
unfortunately, due to the Downing Effect, those who would latch onto these coldfusion discoveries cannot discern the credibility of those who authoritatively dismiss them.
Ordinary people have no understanding of SR or GR beyond E=mc2. Really, if "they" would just figure out how to directly convert mass to energy, we would have all our energy problems solved and could promptly begin warp driving all over the fuckin galaxy
These are the facts:
Some guys claim they have a world changing source of energy.
They have provided zero evidence.
They are likely desirous of funding.
Those are the facts. Considering the facts, there is nothing to see here, so rejection out of hand is not only reasonable, it's the only reasonable action.
That is speculation, not fact. I looked and didn't see any evidence of them asking for money (although absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, the scam might already be finished, and they are just bilking their investors now), rather they were only claiming that they are going ahead with a commercial rollout. If this is a scam, it's a new one by me, though it certainly has many elements of the old one.
They have filed a patent, which lends SOME credence to their claim. I don't know much about the European patent system. You can certainly patent any kind of bullshit in America though.
I thought it was a joke at first. ".....from the University of (Baloney.)"??
During the first Cold Fusion hype I bought Paladium futures....
My first ever trip into the futures market.... In the end I held on a bit too long
and made just enought to take my girl friend out to a really nice dinner!
Interestingly, in one of the links provided:
http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2011/01/19/rossi-and-focardi-lenr-device-...
The Italian scientists do not call their reaction "cold fusion." Rather, their device is an energy catalyzer. Don't ask me how it works. If the thing produces more energy than it consumes as they claim, big oil will want them dead. Them and every other single eco-fascist who believe that humans are bad and that we should all be riding bicycles to live sustainably with Mother Earth. F%ck them. The eco-fascists hate innovation and anything else that might have a chance to lift the world out of poverty. The oligarchs will hate this because it will likely mean people getting off the grid and running their cars and houses on tap water. There's no money to be made in that because they don't control it.
I'm sceptical, but there is always the off chance they've stumbled onto something that actually works. If it does, I'll be sure to be one of their first customers.
Tesla made a prototype power plant that transmitted power to customers' homes using a radio tower. George Westinghouse, his patron saw a demo and asked how Tesla was coming along on the metering. "What metering?" Westinghouse shut him down on the spot...
Um no.
Tesla invented the world's largest microwave oven, that's all.
Good luck with one of those broadcasting direct into your living room to power up the 72". You'll become the popcorn.
Those guys better check underneath their cars from now on...
Nah. Once someone checks their math they'll be fine. Embarrassed and academically ruined, but fine.
be real nice if it were true, but it most probably isn't.
And even if it were, then what happens with nickel? We turn it all into copper? Back to square one
You clearly don't understand the magnitude of energy held in matter. If we turned all the world's nickel into copper with hydrogen, the Earth would be spread among nearby galaxies in short order, given that a good deal of the core is made out of nickel. The amount in circulation as US coins right now would be enough to run the world for a few decades at least.
That does not mean this is real. It only means the fusion is basically unlimited energy, so long as it does not require rare feedstock, like tritium.
sigh...listen, douche, a RAT could understand einstein's famous equation.
However, neither it nor you can apparently understand much else. You simply do not grasp the cold, unflinching reality of the mathematics of growth.
We're going to fucking mine the core of the earth now? jfc...
Or better yet, we will simply convert ALL of the coin nickel mass into energy and run the world for a few decades. I've got a suggestion for ya, man...how about shut up? You're foolish
If not for the nickel then why not for the oil?
/sarc
Considering one US nickel contains enough energy when used in this manner to power a home for a month, yeah, we will. We produce 740,000 metric tons of nickel per year. That's 740,000,000,000 grams. In one year. 58 grams of nickel produces 0.003758 grams of transmuted matter. This gives us 60,690,517 grams of converted matter per year. One gram of transmuted matter produces 25 million kW hours. Our yearly production of nickel thus produces 1,517,000 terawatt hours That's 100,000 years at current consumption levels.
So shut the fuck up.
Trav777,
I luv ya bro... but you got bitch smacked...
PREACH TMOSLEY!!!
http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=convert+740e9%2F58*.003758+g+to+exa...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_energy_resources_and_consumption
...10 years at current rates ?
Suerly we know the difference between a "TWh" and a "TW" judging by all the cursing. Yes 1,517,000 TWh divided by 15 TW (consumption rate, W = Joule / second) is 100,000 (h). Sadly, you still need to remove that pesky "h" (how many hours are in a year?).
Then again, are we really talking about cold fusion? And to travs point - Do you really think we would do anything with that extra energy besides hump like rabits?
Fine, you got me. I was in a hurry, and I saw watts and thought it was watt-hours. Still, that is 11 years worth of energy produced in one year without us thinking of nickel as energy.
No, we do not simply "breed like rabbits". That is the dumbshit Malthusian death worshipper view. We make a rocket using the stuff as fuel and go to the stars. The energy density of the feedstock for this reaction is higher than anything else known to man by many orders of magnitude. We mine asteroids for the stuff. It is well worth the energy input. Hell, the energy required to mine planets in other systems makes it worth it. With the amount of energy made available by commercialization of this reaction, if real, we will be able to construct Dyson spheres. This reaction would, in fact, assure the permanent survival of the human species, or at least, ensure survival until the stars themselves start to die out. But then, I guess we should just give up now because the stars will die one day too?
100 years ago, people would've thought nuclear fission or fusion impossible.
Independent verification, its a Biatch...
Wait. Isn't nickel quite a lot more expensive than copper? And the only real practical source of hydrogen is...a... oil.
So even if it weren't a fraud (which it is), I still don't see how it pays.
Yikes. Where'd ya learn that?
This could really turn things around for Charles Ponzi's decendants.
it is said that cold fusion reactions depend on the purity of the atoms. since our science hasn't quite learned how to differentiate between grades of atoms (are all water molecules equal?), we have a series of successful cold fusion reactions which are only intermittently repeatable. of course it will be rejected by the mainstream. those who out of hand dismiss cold fusion as impossible are no different than those flat earthers of the 19th century who set about to mathematically prove that manned aircraft flight was impossible.
cynicism is a psychological and spiritual dead end designed to shield oneself from one's own fears of responsibility for life. it's far more comfortable psychologically to think you've got reality pinned down than to admit that modern science describes but a rough approximation of the laws governing this reality. our ignorance far outpaces our knowledge. if you don't believe me, allow the ramifications of the insanity of systemic human behaviour to sink in.
cold fusion is the key transformative technology for humans here and now. polar ice will become the new oil.
Yeah, yeah. Another press conference where scientists demonstrate a cold fusion device (details to be revealed later ...) which will supposedly solve all of the world's energy problems. First there was Fleishman/Pons, then George Miley, then that Cravens guy, so this is number four, five? I stopped keeping count more than a decade ago. If something sounds too good to be true ...
(Of course if it really does work, then it would serve as the perfect power source for my antigravity propulsion device which NASA and the airlines have been trying to supress for years.)
What's the fiat banker's wet dream?
A scientific breakthrough on the endless reproduction of finite commodities and energy.
If there's no more finite measure against a diluted paper currency, the playing field is level.
Print away!
Until such time, regard these and other news of "scientific breakthroughs" with much scepticism.
Why did Kings and Queens of old always have some alchemist on staff to find them a way to new riches? Because they all spend more than their slaves could produce them or pay them.
we at our Kitco Labs also made a discovery which can turn any metal to gold. We're in the process of making tonnes, many many tonnes of gold which will drve the price down, like my good friend Kass said to 250
Kass your rear end good bye gold bugs