This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

It's Getting Plain Silly: MF Global Hikes Silver Margin To 175% Of CME, Or Over 10% Of Contract

Tyler Durden's picture


Now it's just getting plain silly. Following two margin hikes by the CME, one for 9% and one for 10% this week, now MF Global, run by former Goldman CEO Jon Corzine has joined the fray, and has hiked its silver margin to $25,397. As a reminder, the latest CME margin is $14,513, or about 6% of the contract value of $241,750 assuming a silver price of $48.35. So MF Global's is 175% of the CME! It is obvious that everyone is now hell bent on destroying the parabolic move higher in gold and silver, which is happening for a very good reason: deranged money printing. Although, as yesterday, we very much doubt MF Global, or anyone else for that matter will hike ES margins any time soon. After all, doing anything to stop the Weimar rallyTM in its tracks is treason of the highest degree under Bernanke's dictatorship and is punishable appropriately. In the meantime, can the exchange just make margin trading in commodities illegal and move to all cash? At least that way all the weak momo hands can be relegated to chasing Netflix and other bubbles, making their eventual pop all the more memorable.

h/t @gptrading


- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Fri, 04/29/2011 - 16:56 | 1222072 critical_mass_soon
critical_mass_soon's picture

silver bitchez! yeah!

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:05 | 1222110 dlmaniac
dlmaniac's picture

Definition of insanity at its plainest.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 18:15 | 1222377 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

following the crowd?

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 18:23 | 1222403 dlmaniac
dlmaniac's picture

Raising margin requirement again & again and expecting a different result.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 18:32 | 1222429 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

that result being lower pm prices or higher?  i mean "how is MF global's views different from the CME's"?

Sat, 04/30/2011 - 01:02 | 1223311 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

Max Kaiser Report Silver JPM TALF Goldman Sanders Report

It is time for Americans to take back our Country from the Lobby Whore Government that is OWNED By Wall Street Banks / AAA Rated Corporations! "We the People" need to take back our Country. It is to Bad the Broader Populace is watching Danzig wiff da starz and completely ignorant of the Truth! You can fix Stupid and the Broader Populace is Stupid or Blissfully Ignorant and does NOT! want to know the Truth! America will be a Privatized Corporate Police State Very Soon! Because of the Stupidity! Max Kaiser Report Silver JPM TALF Goldman Sanders Report with a Zero Hedge pat on the back for Tyler!


Fri, 04/29/2011 - 19:01 | 1222517 duncecap rack
duncecap rack's picture

I just read something that turned my perception of the silver battle on it's head. I read it from a link on Jesse's cafe american. If anyone had a view on this I would like to hear it.


Fri, 04/29/2011 - 21:18 | 1222894 narapoiddyslexia
narapoiddyslexia's picture

One of the Metal Augmentor's core arguments is this quote - ""Of course the background support of a sickly dollar and strong gold along with high commodity prices is definitely a big part of this as well, but these easy conditions for silver will not last forever. "

This is from today's blog entry at

If he is wrong on this, he is wrong on everything. Personally, my belief in the opposite reality is why I bought physical silver. I hope he is right, and I hope I lose money on the silver. But I'm afraid he has his head up his ass and we are all in for a shit storm.

Pick your reality and live in it.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 21:33 | 1222923 duncecap rack
duncecap rack's picture

I was just kind of wondering about the point he made that the shorts were in a stronger position than the longs because they could bail and choose to settle for cash at first settlement. That flew in the face of what I thought which was once they went short they were forced to pony up the physical at the choice of the long. Can they settle at "market" price or do they have to pay a premium? What happens if a long wants his silver and the short wants to settle cash? Is it negotiated? Is it arbitrated? Anyone have experience on settlement rules?

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 22:01 | 1222977 narapoiddyslexia
narapoiddyslexia's picture

I'm not familiar with the Comex rules. To me, they are irrelevant. What is happening in the greater world is that the monetary structures that have obtained for decades are coming apart and the entire world is realigning. I strongly suspect we are headed back to a metal standard currency, and I think all the sovereigns think the same thing. Hence, China and Russia have stopped exporting silver and gold and China is raping the earth extracting more gold from its own mines as fast as it can. The captive Chinese miners produce gold for ~$500/oz and are forced to sell it to the state for ~$1000 and it disappears. Moreover, China, Russian, Brazil, India, and South Africa meet in China and start to organize another currency regime and the US is not going to be allowed to play. The odd man in that combo is South Africa, which has a minute economy compared to the others; so why is South Africa invited? Gold, plain and simple. China and the US are the 800-pound gorillas, and they are circling in the ring. Everything that happens on the Comex is as important as a piss in a hurricane. Sideshow, plain and simple. 

Sat, 04/30/2011 - 09:47 | 1223712 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture
by duncecap rack
on Fri, 04/29/2011 - 21:33


I was just kind of wondering about the point he made that the shorts were in a stronger position than the longs because they could bail and choose to settle for cash at first settlement. That flew in the face of what I thought which was once they went short they were forced to pony up the physical at the choice of the long. Can they settle at "market" price or do they have to pay a premium? What happens if a long wants his silver and the short wants to settle cash? Is it negotiated? Is it arbitrated? Anyone have experience on settlement rules?


If the house can deliver and it is cheaper for the house to settle in metal.. whatever the house wants.. that is the easy answer.

in almost all circumstances, to be clear everyone has heard of a guy who was settled in metal.. but none of us have ever been able to speak to him directly and see the slip.. so expect cash as the rule.

Given the higer margin with no premium on the backside for non-delivery you may want to review a chart to see what the ratio is.

Silver is safe.. silver is used.. not stock piled.. and executive order 11110 makes me smile.. can you find counter points? non that out wiegh the FED's Printing Presses.

Good Luck!

Sat, 04/30/2011 - 11:24 | 1223943 narapoiddyslexia
narapoiddyslexia's picture

I had never heard of EO 11110. Wiki has a decent article on it. Looks like it was a good source of conspiracy theories.

Silver is fairly safe, especially if you bought it before last summer at a decent price. Even now, though, its ok to buy as long as you don't need to spend the fiat to live.

As to counterpoints, I will look. I know a guy who used to work at the comex so I'll ask him about it.

Sat, 04/30/2011 - 07:30 | 1223549 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Ya it turned my perception of the silver battle on it's head too. I'm going to start cycling my gun every 3 days to make sure it's not sticky and will chamber without a problem. When they start using nomenclature and procedure excuses along with an army of pants pisser trolls. It's the first lady that said enron was a scam time.

Sat, 04/30/2011 - 09:42 | 1223698 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

I would rather you find a dry gun...

Think AK reliable but m-4 accurate.



FN SCAR .308


Hand gun? FN 5 and 7

If you dont know why the 5 & 7? becuase your wife / kids / grandma can use it easily. As well it defeats body armor with regular ammo (check which Commie State you live in to be sure).


God Bless You and Yours Fine Sir!



Fri, 04/29/2011 - 20:16 | 1222740 greenbear
greenbear's picture

That would a mark of insanity.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 21:08 | 1222880 Cash_is_Trash
Cash_is_Trash's picture

Seems to be priced into market. Hell, even the end of the world is.

Beat-down and BTFD if the gradient even decreses slightly.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:07 | 1222121 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

they are just tightening the spring. the tension is great. they now ,cannot stop it. they are desperate.  all this does is strengthen the long term bull market.........


its on, bitchez......its on..........

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:26 | 1222191 Harmonious_Diss...
Harmonious_Dissonance's picture


Fri, 04/29/2011 - 18:49 | 1222487 scatterbrains
scatterbrains's picture

At this point I'd like to think there are 100x more people praying for a pull back to get long the physical.. all this does is reveal them to be backed into a corner and panicking. If we don't get nice pull back after all their tinkering then the panic will go the other way. I can imagine massive run away gaps up with powerful follow through if they don't stop this  bullshit.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 18:03 | 1222344 Banjo
Banjo's picture



Don't forget to get your hands on the physical. Purchased another 64oz silver two days ago (Australia) 4-5 week wait 2kg bullion bars.

I went to the bullion store at lunch and the queue I estimate to be at least 2 hours  duration. I had to go back to the office and place an order by the phone. I much rather talk the to guys and girls in the office that have been looking after me since 2008.

I had a chat about the queue and joked they should be expanding and they informed me they have purchased additional office space on the same floor.  This thing is just getting started.

A year ago I was able to walk in and walk out with 10kg-15kg silver no problem.

I do accept that we could have violent pullbacks heck $49.5 to $44-45 is a huge swing we experienced recently. I remember piling in about 10kg around January 2011 and it dropped 10% (not happy at that time but Im hanging on riding this raging bull)

Aussie dollar rising has limited my upside gains in the physical metal, the upside is I can buy with a stronger currency as I accumulate.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 18:35 | 1222442 knowless
knowless's picture

silver, artfully crafted, will always bring a high return.. jewelery will always be in demand, even if the market deals you a bad hand, craftsmen are still going to need a benefactor, and what better way to pay but in raw materials?


just a thought.

("always" as in, if everything doesn't crash and burn, but in that case you're still set)

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 21:05 | 1222871 narapoiddyslexia
narapoiddyslexia's picture

Very true. True even if the fellow at Metal Augmentor is right - - and the longs have fled the comex. He predicts a downward trend for silver, but his argument is at its core the following statement - "Of course the background support of a sickly dollar and strong gold along with high commodity prices is definitely a big part of this as well, but these easy conditions for silver will not last forever."

I hope he is right, but my fear that he has his head up is ass, is why I own several hundred pounds of physical silver.

I would rather lose money on silver than go thru what is probably coming. "sickly dollar" may not begin to describe it.

Sat, 04/30/2011 - 01:32 | 1223338 Goldenhands57
Goldenhands57's picture

Banjo.. got a question for one Down Under. Hows the Perth Mint holding up under this pressure on the AG Market? I know the Aussie have the advantage of placing their physical in the vault with other investors metal and up to now the Perth has been as solid as they get for secure storage and actually holding the bullion. Just wondering if you see any changes in perceptions. I live in the Pacific Northwest area of the States and see similar interest but not long que. So far dealers in physical Gold and Silver are not expanding space here. What is noticed is a remarkable increase in homeless on the streets. It's been miserable here this Winter and even so it's quite obvious many more are already hurting from Inflation than Media are reporting.  I agree the recent "Put" in prices sent a few to the Market. That drop was very short lived, recovery to near $50US was swift indeed. Your doing well holding on. Wow!  A month wait for 2 Kg! That'll make a SilverBack sit up and think!        

Sat, 04/30/2011 - 05:28 | 1223503 Banjo
Banjo's picture

Goldenhands57: I am on the eastern side and deal with the Australian Bullion Company they have offices in Sydney.

I do not have any detailed knowledge regards the Perth mint.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:15 | 1222155 Ergo
Ergo's picture

MF Global who??  Maybe someone can explain what this will accomplish.  And if the CME were to raise anymore, the time to do so would've been before option expiry/first notice.


Gold rocketed up, and the dollar is on life support.  I won't be scared out of my silver longs!

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:21 | 1222169 tiger7905
tiger7905's picture

Looks like silver backwardation is coming to an end and eliminated if you only look at 2013 contracts.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:20 | 1222162 rich_maverick
rich_maverick's picture

Since silver broke out above $42, I've moved into accumulating more gold.  Figured we may have a pullback which may or may not give me another opportunity to accumulate more silver.  Yes, I was early.  But, while the PTB are doing their best to keep silver down, gold has been on a stealth run.  Guess when they focus on gold again, silver will resume it's run.  Don't care...  Have been accumulating both, not selling until a new monetary system comes to existence... 


Fri, 04/29/2011 - 18:09 | 1222362 bbq on whitehou...
bbq on whitehouse lawn's picture

Extractable gold to silver runs between 30-40 silver gram to one gram of gold. Ive seen in run under 10 to 1 but its rare. If the SGR drops to under 25 i would sell for gold (marry gold date silver).

Now processed and available silver runs maybe 10 to one. Some would say silver is rarer then gold but most of the gold is unavailable for any price.

So its all ballpark and stupid to even think of pricing either silver or gold.

Still its a market and its open for trade.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 18:26 | 1222416 Lets Hang Parliament
Lets Hang Parliament's picture

If you are going for physical delivery then "margin" is irrelevant or am I missing something?

All is not well in the state of Denmark...

All the best from the UK which is still in wedding mode but hey dont we do pageantry well or what? Although I expect CNBC fcked it up for y'all?!

Turd - I didnt see you in the Abbey - you must have been invited surely Silver Shirley?!

Sat, 04/30/2011 - 05:00 | 1223492 theprofromdover
theprofromdover's picture


As far as I can see, this hiking of margins is designed to slow down speculator idiocy; and actually benefits the rest of us in the real world who will only value physical PMs.

Even the greedy idiots in the paper markets must know they are in for a rough landing one day soon. But like all money-worshippers, they think they are smart enough to safely get out 5 milliseconds before the rest of the dung beetles. I think their shamans are trying to put the steam catapault in reverse a little at a time.


Here's another initiative -why don't they lock in all prices (stocks, commodities, CDS, whatever) for 1 second at a time. That way the speed-of-light robot traders nearest to the market's servers don't get any advantage over the rest of us. Wouldn't be expensive to do, and would slow down the mania (even though most of us really want the purge when it comes, to be cathartic).

They would maybe move off into the dark pools and eat each other.

One day soon...........

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 19:03 | 1222518 In Fed We Trust
In Fed We Trust's picture

I say close all the exchanges.

Let Vegas take over. If you want to bet on price moves, you bet in Vegas.

No Market makers . Period.


Fri, 04/29/2011 - 19:30 | 1222604 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

building the pink sheet slot machines right now!

Sat, 04/30/2011 - 01:45 | 1223350 Goldenhands57
Goldenhands57's picture

Haha.. I'll go for that one if the Free drinks keep comin my way when in a Day Trade! Got spanked earlier this week..sure coulda used a CR & 7 after that beating!  But, made the loss back by today Noon. Jeez!! No wonder I have grey hair..havta work my ass off just to stay in a positive frame of mind. Vegas it is baby!! 

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 16:58 | 1222076 gorillaonyourback
gorillaonyourback's picture

let them hike the margins, its getting to the point where a hike in the margins means silver is going higher lololol

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:00 | 1222081 Gubbmint Cheese
Gubbmint Cheese's picture

"Do you hear that Mr. Anderson? That is the sound of inevitability.. It is the sound of your death."

will be glad when this manipulative BS is torched once and for all.


Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:06 | 1222107 Gene Parmesan
Gene Parmesan's picture

Someone needs to pull a class action suit together.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:15 | 1222157 LiquidBrick
LiquidBrick's picture

Someon needs to pull a class action suit together.


Why bother? By the time you get the judgment there won't be any physical left to buy. The paper judgment and fiat is already worthless. Shit.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 22:51 | 1223067 CD
CD's picture

There are several underway. Don't hold your breath for a) timely or b) equitable and just resolutions.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:00 | 1222082 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

These margin increases are not going to impact the truly big guns...they just make it harder on the little guy...which seems to be the long standing game plan. Push everyone into equities and away from PM's.

All hail the ponzi.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:09 | 1222132 rosiescenario
rosiescenario's picture

Right you are....get back to those Cdn penny stocks where you belong!!!

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 16:59 | 1222084 Texas Gunslinger
Texas Gunslinger's picture

Do not worry about this news!  Yesterday there was a margin hike, and silver did not crash.

We need to think like long term investors, rather than short term traders.  This is how the big fish make money.

Think like a CEO (chief executive officer), not like a sheep.  

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:07 | 1222109 Josh Randall
Josh Randall's picture

I liked it better when you were pretending to be Judge Judy - thanks for clarifying what CEO stood for D-Bag

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:52 | 1222284 Slartebartfast
Slartebartfast's picture

LMAO with beer shooting out of my nose!!!

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 18:17 | 1222397 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

is someone who pretends to be smart better than the opposite?

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 18:46 | 1222474 knowless
knowless's picture

sometimes, when first encountering truth, the filters of reality which have suited over time fall apart, and in the awakening, there is a delay in the ability to fully comprehend what others know.

this new truth, one which has subverted a long held line, undermines judgement, and makes a once proud man a fool in his own eyes, attempting to assertain the knowledge of others, he shows that which he does not know, so as to attempt to still enlighten, even though he has shown even himself that his knowledge was sadly lacking.


it is a great man fallen, who comes before us, and hope be that he sees that which before was obscured, and can emerge from his cave of wonder, into the infinite chaos, and again find his determinination to seek and distribute truth.


basic: I don't know, but I would guess either is equally corrosive.


Fri, 04/29/2011 - 23:07 | 1222588 piceridu
piceridu's picture

LOL, me thinks Texas Gunslinger is slinging a yellow squirt-gun that he got for sitting quietly at his desk. After reading some of his comments in other threads, I'm guessing he's in 1st or 2nd grade?

Sat, 04/30/2011 - 00:15 | 1223245 McPoopypants
McPoopypants's picture

actually, that seems about right. not even joking.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:06 | 1222117 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

CEO = chief executive officer?

Wow, thanks.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:35 | 1222231 gravitas
gravitas's picture

It was, at best, semi-humerous. No?

I must admit, I gave a quiet chuckle when I read that bit.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:37 | 1222239 LongSoupLine
LongSoupLine's picture

Creamy Energized Oranges?

Crazy Elephant Odor?

Camper's Eating Oatmeal?

Cheap Eyelid Operations?

Corrugated Egg Opener?

Cat Entrails Omelete?

Catastrophic Empire Obliteration (read: Bernanke plan)

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 18:05 | 1222355 Dollar Damocles
Dollar Damocles's picture

+55k for insanely random hilariousness.  But seriously though LSL.  Enough with the multiple choice stuff.  What does CEO mean?  I'm going for cat entrails omelete because it sounds yummy.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 19:25 | 1222575 Strider52
Strider52's picture

You forgot Chicks Eating Oranges

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 20:57 | 1222806 akak
akak's picture

Colostomy Enhanced Origami

Chronic Eczema Orthopedics

Colombianos Especiales Olympicos

Crocodilian Excretory Ointment

Contageous Estonian Oligarchs

Crispy Elliptical Orifices


Sat, 04/30/2011 - 00:08 | 1223236 Dollar Damocles
Dollar Damocles's picture

You guys are killing me!

Sat, 04/30/2011 - 00:30 | 1223274 Bolweevil
Bolweevil's picture

Crystalized ecru oncogene

Sat, 04/30/2011 - 01:01 | 1223297 akak
akak's picture

Constipated echinoderm orgasms

Cubic epidermal opals

Cantankerous elephant orgies

Crazed ethiopean orthodontists

Collateralized eggplant obligations

Conspicuously engorged organs

Criminally enraged obstetricians

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:06 | 1222119 redpill
redpill's picture

Hey I know you're new, but just a heads up, it's pretty safe to assume folks on ZH are going to know what CEO stands for.  You can use as many acronyms or technical terms as you like, if anyone doesn't know what you mean they'll look it up or ask.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:22 | 1222175 knukles
knukles's picture

Or they'll tell you what it really means. 
Maybe even correct you.
Possibly chastise and ridicule you.
But they will attempt to ensure you have a reasonable portion of the sample set necessary.
You may not have all your marbles, but you'll at least have enough to play the game.


Fri, 04/29/2011 - 23:57 | 1223215 msamour
msamour's picture

Let us not forget this is fight clus after all!

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:29 | 1222209's picture

You can use as many acronyms or technical terms as you like, if anyone doesn't know what you mean they'll look it up or ask.



Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:56 | 1222294 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

I Know What You Mean...(I'm lost)

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:58 | 1222309 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

I Know What You Mean...(I'm lost)

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 19:17 | 1222553 Central Bankster
Central Bankster's picture

I KnowWhat You Mean I Really Think That Part Would ............?

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 20:23 | 1222759 Mentaliusanything
Mentaliusanything's picture

Congratulations you have created a new search page on Google.

Printing money is just as easy.

Mining silver not so much

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:13 | 1222137 Creed
Creed's picture

lol @ Tex


you're coming along fast there

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:39 | 1222248 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

Texas   .."We need to think like long term investors, rather than short term traders.."

While you've got your CEO hat on the average hold for stocks is down from 36 months to 6-8 months in the past 3 years. That's because long term holding, like value investing, is a bloody speculative disaster! Most CEO's cannot plan accurately to the year end because of speed of change in every aspect of operations, so what chance investors predicting better than the CEO the companies fortunes a year or more out?

I feel 'organised' if i can tell you my plans for tomorrow so don't advise me to invest longer than a month again ok bud 

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:55 | 1222308 blindman
blindman's picture

i have heard the average hold time for
stocks is 26 seconds. ?

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 18:54 | 1222495 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

same as my attention span then!

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:58 | 1222313 blindman
blindman's picture

i have heard the average hold time for
stocks is 26 seconds. ?

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:15 | 1222153 fuu
fuu's picture


Fri, 04/29/2011 - 22:01 | 1222975 KinorSensase
KinorSensase's picture

Jesus...20 junks that's pretty harsh.  Have some mercy on the man...just cause he's new doesn't mean he's an asshole/troll.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 22:39 | 1223051 1100-TACTICAL-12
1100-TACTICAL-12's picture


Dude WTF? You moved to Tx from where? Shut your trap, you are not  talking to a bunch of third graders here.

Sat, 04/30/2011 - 09:44 | 1223701 Pool Shark
Pool Shark's picture


" are not  talking to a bunch of third graders here."

Well, actually, you forgot about MethMan, Hamy, Robo, and Dangertime...


Fri, 04/29/2011 - 16:59 | 1222085 Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

The FED buys MBS at face value.  The CME hikes margin.  Next, FED reserve will announce it is selling gold.  This is so predicatable when you understand TBTF is behind the 8-ball.  OT: is my entourage junker here?  How long will you take?

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:05 | 1222102 narapoiddyslexia
narapoiddyslexia's picture

Buy as much physical silver as you can. If only 500k people owned as much physical silver as I have stashed in bank boxes, it would all be gone, and production is going down. And believe me, I don't have that much. One million people, people who are not even in the options or commodities market, can bring the fuk ers down. Just keep buying 20 ounces at a times, or as much as you can. It will never evaporate, and it will always be good for making bullets.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:07 | 1222122 Hearst
Hearst's picture

Yes as most who read here know that physical ownership is the Silver bullet.  These cocksuckers are trying via the spot Silver price to shake weak (or all if they can) hands out of this market.  


These desperate antics are futile as premiums on physical Silver continue to rise.  I can't wait for the day the comex defaults.  Then and only then will the CFTC conclude that the CME / comex via the bullion banks are complicit in the precious metal manipulation.  There is no way the CFTC will rule until TSHTF.  They do want to be blamed for what we all know is comming.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:21 | 1222181 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Good. If you don't think you can go 15 rounds, don't get into the freakin' ring.  All those weak hands need to go back to CONgress where they belong.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 18:25 | 1222406 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

"price discovery" meets "how is one to know when an irrational exuberance has taken hold?".  seems pretty straight-forward.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:08 | 1222129 Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

From the sound of it, you "have been around." so I am sure you are well aware.  So this is for others who may have have not thought it through: there is risk in keeping all your valuables in bank boxes (assuming at the bank).  It is prudent to keep a fair amount in your possession.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:15 | 1222158 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Fair amount, my ass. If you ain't holdin', you ain't ownin'.  4" PVC, 3' long, double capped, plenty of desicant and spoof the hell out of the area.  Fuck banks.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:31 | 1222216 silvertrain
silvertrain's picture

If you have 1 mercury Dime in a fucking bank you are crazy..After a Bnak Holiday an official will get with you on what would be a good time for you guys to meet up where the contents of that bank box can be documented..Many things will be considered contraband..

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 18:14 | 1222380 Dollar Damocles
Dollar Damocles's picture

In 1933 when the gold nationalization took place they sealed all safety deposit boxes and you were not allowed to open it without a bank rep and an IRS rep present.  If there was gold there, you left with cash.  The only thing dumber than keeping gold in a bank deposit box would be buying physical bullion and then throwing it of a pier with a blind-fold on.

Not to mention the fraudulent theft of safety deposit boxes in CA, or the massive police raid of deposit boxes in the UK for the purposes of confiscating money from organized crime.  But the people who were totally innocent were also fucked, not to mention they had to show up and explain the contents of the boxes and where they got it from.

If you have gold in a bank, you HAVEN'T BEEN PAYING ATTENTION.

Oh and one more thing...  Go watch a documentary on the hyperinflation in Argentina.  Maybe you will notice something... oh yeah, that is it, all the boarded up banks that people are protesting outside of.  Got gold in there?  Good luck.  Or how about the bank holiday here in the US on 9/11?  Fucking a you get the damn picture yet?

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 18:50 | 1222493 The Grip
The Grip's picture

DD - First with the omlette and now with the blindfold. You are an f-in riot!

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 19:06 | 1222528 knowless
knowless's picture

there was an awesome blog/essay from a proffessor at a university in argentina that solidified my perceptions. I wish i could remember his name.. he described honestly his transformation from a common citizen, to someone who would survive. he spoke of the necessity of concealed carry, and disobeying laws when it was sane to do so (that stop sign? an ambush).. wish I could find it now, but all that comes up is dead links.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 23:00 | 1223090 CD
CD's picture

He apparently just built a whole site:

"Premise: USA is headed for a similar economic meltdown to the one you and your family experienced.

Given: I have had little or no success trying to warn friends and family who continue to think their lives will go on the same way forever.

QUESTION: What was your most important need/concern in the first few days after TSHTF, and what advice do you have for the rest of us regarding your answer?"

Sat, 04/30/2011 - 00:03 | 1223228 msamour
msamour's picture

Could it have been Adrian Salbucci? he's got a you tube channel.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 20:30 | 1222771 Rainyday_man
Rainyday_man's picture

+100 Got gold in there? Love it!

Sat, 04/30/2011 - 03:24 | 1223427 HyperinflatmyNutts
HyperinflatmyNutts's picture


According to in-house memos now circulating, the DHS has issued orders to banks across America which announce to them that "under the Patriot Act" the DHS has the absolute right to seize, without any warrant whatsoever, any and all customer bank accounts, to make "periodic and unannounced" visits to any bank to open and inspect the contents of "selected safe deposit boxes."

Here is the link if you care to read the rest.   NO BANKS!!  Stay out side the system

Sat, 04/30/2011 - 06:07 | 1223519 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Plus they can steal pizza too.

Quit yer pizza steallin or immma cut you bitch!!

Sat, 04/30/2011 - 11:34 | 1223968 narapoiddyslexia
narapoiddyslexia's picture

The story that DHS has warned banks is way, way too similar to the story debunked by Snopes years ago. 



Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:17 | 1222161 rosiescenario
rosiescenario's picture

"... production is going down."


Careful there....during periods of high metal prices many mines (the well managed ones, that is) mine more of their lower grade ores thereby extending mine life.


On the surface as the numbers get reported that leads to an inaccurate conclusion that production is declining, whereas what is actually happening is that higher grade ore bodies are in a sense "expanding'.


The scrap market for silver is also booming with those refiners adding to their melt capacity....another source of silver coming into the market. In addition any company using silver in its products is scrambling to reduce that usage and / or replace silver wherever possible.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 20:44 | 1222805 narapoiddyslexia
narapoiddyslexia's picture

Good points. I don't have to be overly careful for some time, though, as my average cost to date is below $18 per ounce. I can keep buying and still come out ahead even if silver plummets 50%.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:29 | 1222215 Tedster
Tedster's picture

Believe it or not, silver is just about impossible to fabricate bullets with.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 20:53 | 1222830 narapoiddyslexia
narapoiddyslexia's picture

Get 'em while they got 'em -

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:04 | 1222086's picture

APMEX just sent me an offer for a Platinum Platypus 1 oz the offer it mentions how Platypus's swim with there eye's closed but the coin depicts the Platypus with its EYES OPEN UNDERWATER!  Collectable, mistake? Don't know if its worth 2k to find out....btw...that is the most times I used the word Platypus in a day ever.....

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:08 | 1222127 Cinfultreat
Cinfultreat's picture

or in a 10 year span

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:25 | 1222195 Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

Or, APMEX could be taking a page out of the FED playbook, you know, the "Kansas City Shuffle".  They said they want to "recall" the coin because of some artistic defect and will "eat the cost" of the transaction because they are a good corprate citizen.  Instead of saying, "we need that coin back because we got inside information the metal is going through the roof."

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:38 | 1222246 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

The silliness from the email-

RE: Move Over Eagles, The Platypus Has Arrived!

If all you have owned is Silver, or even if you have diversified with Gold, now is your chance to further diversify with Platinum.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 19:15 | 1222547 seek
seek's picture

In other words, they're selling what they have.

We're out of silver? Sell gold! We're out of that too? Look at that pile of platinum we have!

I'll take this as a sign. 1) don't deal with them and 2) things are about to go higher.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 19:21 | 1222564 sterling effort
sterling effort's picture

ornithorhynchus, bitchez.

In primary school in Oz in the 60's they made us learn to spell it. Bastards.


Fri, 04/29/2011 - 16:59 | 1222087 Chuck Bone
Chuck Bone's picture

Get everyone into equities and away from PMs so your banker buddies can btfd. They know damn well what they are doing.  Remember the GS crude downgrade? How is this any different.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:00 | 1222089 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

this sounds "serious" not "silly."  If it is "silly" however--how is it so for I can see if "no one has the silver to take delivery" that this could be very serious indeed.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:03 | 1222092 medicalstudent
medicalstudent's picture

gusher of endless liquidity.


say it with me...



Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:04 | 1222095 Wakanda
Wakanda's picture

Soon we will have to pay for silver with...   (wait for it!)

physical GOLD!

imagine a world with honest exchange

it's easy if you try...

(apologies to John and Yoko)

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:04 | 1222097 Trillax
Trillax's picture

Round-and-round we go,
where we stop only Bernake knows!

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:02 | 1222100 johngaltfla
johngaltfla's picture

Good luck with that. It's worked well since, uh, er, $22.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:02 | 1222101 That Peak Oil Guy
That Peak Oil Guy's picture

A very interesting observation in "Fiat Inflation in France," written in 1896, was the disappearance of metals of value from the market to the extent that coins could not be kept in circulation:

To supply silver and copper and hold it in circulation everything was tried. Citizens had been spurred on by law to send their silverware and jewels to the mint. Even the king sent his silver and gold plate, and the churches and convents were required by law to send to the government melting pot all silver and gold vessels not absolutely necessary for public worship. For copper money the church bells were melted down. But silver and even copper continued to become more and more scarce.


Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:09 | 1222131 Bam_Man
Bam_Man's picture

Gresham's Law in action.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 18:37 | 1222443 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Or Gresham Law's inaction.  I hear he was a real couch potato.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 19:55 | 1222668 Dejean Splicer
Dejean Splicer's picture

Fiat this fiat that. I for one am sick to death of the peak fiat conspiracy theories.



Sat, 04/30/2011 - 00:11 | 1223237 msamour
msamour's picture

In 1896, there was no king in France, so I imagine either the person who wrote this article made a mistake, or it's a fraud. Never believe anything, or anyone from France that tells you there was a King in 1896! LOL.

Sat, 04/30/2011 - 00:47 | 1223294 That Peak Oil Guy
That Peak Oil Guy's picture

Written in 1896, but it was about the inflation in the late 1700's.

Perhaps read some of the link before commenting.  ;-)


Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:05 | 1222104 greased up deaf guy
greased up deaf guy's picture

slightly ot... did anyone see this from yesterday? wow. just... wow.

the first line pretty much sums it up:

"Ben Bernanke continues to be one of the only economic voices of reason in the United States."

believe it or not, it actually gets progressively funnier from there.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:17 | 1222149 N_Jones
N_Jones's picture


heres another good line from that article.

...The majority of people who buy gold are the same people who think JFK was killed by the CIA and that 9/11 was a conspiracy...

good stuff lol

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:18 | 1222166 cossack55
cossack55's picture

So ALPHA = Propaganda?  Always wondered what their definition of Alpha was.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:28 | 1222202 rosiescenario
rosiescenario's picture

no, this guy is just one out of many contributors and Seeking Alpha has some very good ones, unlike the present subject...for example 'Sold At The Top' is usually right on the mark when it comes to housing and the bs surrounding the gubbermint #'s.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:25 | 1222167 cossack55
cossack55's picture

ooops. dupe.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:29 | 1222218 smlbizman
smlbizman's picture

his blog is totally "transitory"..........what the  fuck has happened to free thinking our education system that good at indoctrination...

so alpha pussy i challenage you to create your own thought...


or is he one of these placed shills?

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:22 | 1222183 Creed
Creed's picture

...The majority of people who buy gold are the same people who think JFK was killed by the CIA and that 9/11 was a conspiracy...


ignore/laugh/fight; you win- looks like they are laughing

what's going to happen in the fighting stage?

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 19:01 | 1222520 BanksterSlayer
BanksterSlayer's picture

RE: "...The majority of people who buy gold are the same people who think JFK was killed by the CIA and that 9/11 was a conspiracy..."

And my reply to Ben Bernanke would be: "yeah, so what's your point?"

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 19:15 | 1222557 Tedster
Tedster's picture

The people who admonished you for twenty years against buying gold and called you a neandarthal, will demand that the government confiscate it.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 18:39 | 1222452 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

there is a "minority of people" who buy gold and they believe in the same thing.  they also happen to have it.  gold that is.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 18:44 | 1222464 Island_Dweller
Island_Dweller's picture

I found the last line to be the funniest....


I am short GLD!   


Ha! How's that working out for you?

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:26 | 1222188 rosiescenario
rosiescenario's picture

". Gold prices are transitory. We know that oil prices are transitory -- or in other words temporary because of geopolitical concerns-- but the same is true of gold. This is a fad. This is what happens when the system allows a commodity to be priced independent of supply and demand."


...maybe FIAT is more of a 'Fad'??????? Maybe the $$$$ is getting re-priced based on supply (infinite) and demand (faltering)???

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 18:58 | 1222510 Captain Benny
Captain Benny's picture

In reply to the SeekingAlpha article, because I refuse to create an account there:


Can you say oblivious and ignorant to the facts?  That continual short gold position this fool has certainly will continue to burn him as he re-enters after getting stopped out.

What a fool... trying to paint those on the long side of silver and gold as conspiracy theorists.  Maybe the dumb turd should catch up on reading FACTUAL information instead of Faux News.  Starting at GATA... its perfect for this golden idiot.


Fri, 04/29/2011 - 19:50 | 1222664 MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

835 word post, supposedly about investing and he manages to work the word EXTREMIST in there four fucking times?  What a putz.  So transparent...

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 22:02 | 1222986 riley martini
riley martini's picture

 Must of had a mortgage payment due. Sold out for food or will lie for food.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:08 | 1222113 apberusdisvet
apberusdisvet's picture

This is actually a great signal that the banksters are fucked and that, short of mad max armageddon or a new announced find of 3 billion "misplaced" silver ounces, the end is close.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:08 | 1222116 SoccerDad
SoccerDad's picture

They need to give the TBTF another 2 months to get their Silver too, before the stealth QE3 is realized by the market and finally shoots through All-time highs for good.  

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:09 | 1222120 tmosley
tmosley's picture


Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:10 | 1222126 Bansters-in-my-...
Bansters-in-my- feces's picture

I love the smell of fear and blood in the water...

This is like waiting for the end of a thriller,you know is going to end bad.


Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:08 | 1222130 Josh Randall
Josh Randall's picture

Love the late Friday announcements, as always trying to smak it down like a boxer getting beat-up for 2 mins and 50 secs of a round, and then throwing a bunch of fast unphasing punches for the last 10 secs to try and sway the judges and steal the round. Not working fellas..

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:12 | 1222133 PY-129-20
PY-129-20's picture

The whole fury and might of the enemy must very soon be turned on us. Bernanke knows that he will have to break us in this margin hike or lose the war. If we can stand up to him, all may be freed and the life of the world may move forward into broad, sunlit uplands.

But if we fail, then the whole world, including the United States, including all that we have known and cared for, will sink into the abyss of a new dark fiat money age made more sinister, and perhaps more protracted, by the lights of perverted science. Let us therefore brace ourselves to our duties, and so bear ourselves, that if the PM Empire last for a thousand years, men will still say, This was their finest hour.

You ask, what is our aim? I can answer in one word: Victory. Victory at all costs — Victory in spite of all terror — Victory, however long and hard the road may be, for without victory there is no survival.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:20 | 1222163 Josh Randall
Josh Randall's picture

"the fewer men, the greater share of honour" - Saint Crispin's Day, B!tches!

Sat, 04/30/2011 - 02:47 | 1223402 akak
akak's picture

We shall fight on the CME, we shall fight on the LBMA, we shall fight in the COMEX pits and in the bullion banks, we shall fight in the local coin shops; we shall never surrender ....

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:53 | 1222293 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

But if we fail, then the whole world, including the United States, including all that we have known and cared for, will sink into the abyss of a new dark fiat money age made more sinister, and perhaps more protracted, by the lights of perverted science.

The whole world? Don't be so melodramatic. The rich people will be fine.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 18:10 | 1222370 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

The rich people will be fine.....

with some fava beans and a nice chianti

Sat, 04/30/2011 - 09:22 | 1223676 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

.9999 fine, that is.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 19:10 | 1222542 BanksterSlayer
BanksterSlayer's picture

I wonder if Winston Churchill would have been more of a gold bug or a silver bug? Thanks for posting his quote; those were the days, huh? Pre-Teleprompters.

Sat, 04/30/2011 - 02:15 | 1223369 Gadocat99
Gadocat99's picture

This is not the end.  It is not even the beginning of the end, but perhaps, it is the end of the beginning...

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:10 | 1222135 newbee
newbee's picture

Anyone like to offer their wisdom why silver and SLV ramp higher while Silver Wheaton rolled over a few weeks back.  They've been running in tandem quite a while 'till now. (hope I don't get my head bit off for asking ...)

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:37 | 1222236 rosiescenario
rosiescenario's picture

Keep in mind Silver Wheaton is an odd duck....they sell other people's silver. I wrongly avoided their stock from their beginning because I thought we might be entering a world wide recession which means that the silver available to them would decline because it is a byproduct coming from the production and sale of other metals such as lead and zinc.

In other words....reduced demand for copper, lead, and zinc = reduced silver for Silver Wheaton.

I bought other purse silver miners instead, but wish I had also bought some of this company, too.

Maybe what we are beginning to see is a reduced demand for copper, lead, and zinc. Maybe China is full up on these???? If that is the case, then Silver Wheaton is going to have reduced amounts of silver.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 18:52 | 1222488 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

interesting.  "as the price rose so did supply" until supply didn't.  then "silver wheaton got crushed."  i've always wondered from day one:  if the US housing market got annihilated (as it did and still is since 2008) and they are by far the largest consumer of copper on the planet--how can the price of copper continue to rise?  i mean "the entire state of Arizona is copper."  it's as if "all of sudden a hoarding mentality took hold" after 2008.  but this would run counter to all policy papers "blasting out of the Fed at a mile a minute" so it can't possibly be correct.  indeed "even the price of paper is rising"--thank God for electronic mail!  oh look!  molycorp!

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 19:56 | 1222684 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Speaking of copper why has it not been mentioned in the news more about JP Morgan cornering 80-90% of the copper market that was brought up a few months back?  It can't all be fair and even now.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 18:32 | 1222439 geminiRX
geminiRX's picture

One thing that everyone who owns Canadian mining or Canadian oil and gas stocks should know is that Canadians are on the eve of a potential catastrophic election on Monday. As of now, our NDP party (pretty much as socialist/communist as it gets) is in position to take its place as official opposition. Worse yet, they could actually form the government if they can get a coalition with another party. The NDP wants to raise corporate taxes by 18% and implement a cap-and-trade system on pollution. This will absolutely decimate corporate earnings for the mining and energy sectors. Tuesday morning could be an absolute bloodbath on the TSX pending election outcome. Never in Canadian history has NDP ever come in 2nd place or formed a government. The implications are disastrous. If anyone is wondering why mining companies trading on the TSX have been weak this week - this is why.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 18:51 | 1222496 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

i'm an American.  can i come to your country and vote communist?

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 19:20 | 1222562 web bot
web bot's picture

You know - you get the government you deserve.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 20:20 | 1222755 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

Deserved's got nothing to do with it.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!