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It's Getting Plain Silly: MF Global Hikes Silver Margin To 175% Of CME, Or Over 10% Of Contract
Now it's just getting plain silly. Following two margin hikes by the CME, one for 9% and one for 10% this week, now MF Global, run by former Goldman CEO Jon Corzine has joined the fray, and has hiked its silver margin to $25,397. As a reminder, the latest CME margin is $14,513, or about 6% of the contract value of $241,750 assuming a silver price of $48.35. So MF Global's is 175% of the CME! It is obvious that everyone is now hell bent on destroying the parabolic move higher in gold and silver, which is happening for a very good reason: deranged money printing. Although, as yesterday, we very much doubt MF Global, or anyone else for that matter will hike ES margins any time soon. After all, doing anything to stop the Weimar rallyTM in its tracks is treason of the highest degree under Bernanke's dictatorship and is punishable appropriately. In the meantime, can the exchange just make margin trading in commodities illegal and move to all cash? At least that way all the weak momo hands can be relegated to chasing Netflix and other bubbles, making their eventual pop all the more memorable.
h/t @gptrading
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Yes they are trying to push that "Tax on Life" thing downunder. All the big polluters want full exemptions - really - go figure. Its a tax on carbon on a carbon based life form ergo a "Tax on Life". When I was young my Father joked that one day the Government would Tax breathing. Now they have it. Will fly like a Kiwi bird
The problem with the Canadian election is you have no realy choice:
Harper? Fascist, douchebag, yankee scrotum licker
Ignatieff? Royalist, imperialist, elitest fuckwad
Layton? Communist screwball with no understanding of economics
May? Need I say anything?
Duceppe? destroyer of countries and minority crybaby
...
Go ahead, choose the person who will destroy our country...
If we don't get another minority government it will be bad for us.
I looked at Silver Wheaton It seemed like a big market cap for company with 16 employees or so, it was about a year ago. I think thats the same company. So I passed it seems to easy to duplicate if it was real profitable maybe I was wrong.
they dont call him Corslime in NJ for nothing
Went back to the Wall St. cesspool from which he sprang. Politics wasn't crooked enough for his taste.
.
Endgame for this iteration of "Ponzi Fiat Follies" is clearly within sight.
We'llll they alll sound like they makem dumbmm in Texass,especiallly the Rangers....
Time to sell ?..........................
lol, go for it.
Sell what?
your dollars
And buy what? Or turn your real money in for fiat?
it's Credit Crunch Part II ...these parasites are running out of cash again, they want yours
I am laughing so hard the staff is coming into my office to find out why...
"Weimar rallyTM "
Noticed that, too. It is pretty damn funny.
probably won't be so funny when you need wheelbarows of cash dropped at the Nasdaq doors to buy 1 Apple share ...that's probably sign somethings not quite right!
...although Hamy will probably still be chirpy wrapped in the flag and voting for Bernank as Time magazines 'Man of the Year' ....another sign to panic!
so rather than raise margins to an appopriate level, MF Global would be better off taking the risk of getting destroyed by overleveraged silver gamblers?
If the punters don't like it, they should switch to another firm that will allow them to blow up their accounts sooner.
I like you. "silver gamblers" meet "Mr. Greenback." that doesn't spell "MF." Perhaps they could change their name to MG? It certainly doesn't spell "CME."
That Gunslinger really packs an IQ. Hey TG... Tells us the CEO ,One AGAIN...
Thats a good one for the crew,we all loved it.
Hike margins when it's been showing a little resistance and needs slapping down?. You have to love the timing.
It may not make it harder for the big guns, but at what point does the risk/reward equation start to show negative, when these hikes happen? Surely it makes investment decisions less easy to make?
Holiday weekend again in the UK. Let's hope the Asians have a buying frenzy come late Sunday.
As other have pointed out I beleive this is actually silver bullish - it shows that the plutocrats are really getting worried.
They committed to this path years ago. If we knew the playbook, they know the playbook. And they're about as worried as we are, which of course depends on the individual. Anyway, I agree -- it's bullish for silver and doom.
At this point, margin increases will be expected and traders who are serious about taking delivery will hold extra cash on expectations. If there is a run on silver, you will see the big money flow to gold, not silver. Big money will want assurance that physical exists behind their paper contracts.
Did anyone notice the lease rate spike in Gold? http://www.kitco.com/charts/g_leaserates.html
I hope the Asians do not continue the sell off, as was the case when (according to ZH) Apmex announced they would buy your silver eagles back..
Selling UST's maybe.
Selling UST's maybe.
Bank run bitchez!
I've been following the silver thing for awhile now, but one thing I don't understand is this whole 'margin hike' thing. Could someone please explain this to a newb? Thanks.
When you're trading at COMEX you just have to post a part of the total nominal e.g a 10% as margin (10x leverage). Let's say you buy 500oz of Silver which has a total nominal of 25,000 you just need to post cash of 2,500 for the initial margin. If the margin requirements now rise from 10% to 20% you can only get into a long position of 250oz (12,500) with the same amount of cash. Accordingly, there are less long positon traded in the markets which gives a downward pressure on the market price.
Buying on margin is what got a lot of people jumping out of windows durring the great depression. It's great if the stock goes up but if it goes down and you've bought on margin you stand to loose a whole lot more than your principal investment.
Buy physical. Keep it safe. Keep it secret.
for exchange traded futures contracts you don't have to put up the entire contract price upfront, you only have to put margin up.
The 'trigger' price of when you'd have to submit more margin = price you bought in at x (1-initial margin) / (1 - maintenance margin).
e.g. if you buy at $40/oz x 5000oz per contract, with 10% initial margin required, you'd have to pay $20,000 to the futures exchange to keep your contract open.
If the maintenance margin was 5% then when silver drops to $38 (40x(1-0.1)/(1-0.05) you'd have to pay in more money to 'top up' your margin. This is assuming you are long futures (basically your $20,000 in 'equity' has decreased in value to $10,000 {$2 loss per oz x 5000 oz per contract}, so you need to top up to keep it at a minimum of $10,000 which is the maintenance margin).
Of course this is only looking at the paper settlement side of the futures market. If you stand for delivery and tell the CME, fk the money, I want my 5,000 oz, they have to make good on that delivery (after you pay the difference of $200k contract price- $20k initial margin you paid).
By hiking margin requirements they are trying to kill longs to stop them out of their futures contract so that they no longer have an 'open interest' to stand for delivery.
In the above example, if they increase margin to 20%, all of a sudden you have to find another $20,000 even if silver stays at $40/oz. If you intended to stand for delivery this won't affect you, since you would already have to have 40 x 5000 = $200k ready (including the margin you already deposited) for when delivery occurs.
However if you really are speculating, and you only had $10,000 to begin with, a margin hike will stop you out very quickly (hence the initial price drop after margin hikes).
What's happening in silver though is, as soon as the price drops, longs, who intend to stand for delivery (and have that cash on hand) will open additional contracts. And whoever the market makers are, are continuing to take the short end of the futures contract. Normally the 'shorts' (sellers) are the miners and producers of the commodity, but it doesn't look that way anymore. Miners will still sell short, but only to hedge and only up to the amount of their production.
This is the canary in the coal mine, when open interest (net longs) are greater than production it means someone is fudging numbers somewhere.
but i thought "the banks are the short sellers" and "when silver soars we break the bank"? by this logic "the bank is doing whatever the producer tells him to do" and acting accordingly. unless of course there's..."hanky panky" at the....
I don't even understand your point.
The market makers are the banks.
Market makers typically only make the bid/ask spread by matching (roughly equal) buyers and sellers. Once sellers (i.e. miners) run out of stuff to sell, the supply shortfall should lead to price increases.
But to suppress prices someone is selling MORE than is being produced (the banks). The market maker has to match whoever wants to sell (the banks, and sometimes the market maker themselves if they take a prop position), to whoever wants to buy (the longs). It's all fine and dandy, until contract expiration and the longs ask for delivery. The shorts cannot mine additional supply (the miner's can) to make that delivery. However there's no distinction between a miner who goes short a future and a bank who goes short a future.
Thanks for taking the time, L777
A little supplement to swissinv's good forensics.
The intensity/frequency of the margin hikes is a signal of how distressed the exchanges and the short position holders are (i.e., JPMorgue). The short positions are highly leveraged, Ss the margin value - which the shorts are monitoring as their liquidity obligation - represents the (1/margin rate) fraction of the actual pain. And everyone knows they don't have the goods to cover the position.
Tactically, the margin hiking provides the exchange greater securitization of the liquidity deficit faced by the short holders. It also buys the short more time to attempt to improve their situation.
It is clear that a complex of big shorts is desperate to keep from going off a cliff. But they will eventually pay the piper, particularly as the buy side is increasingly demanding physical delivery. It's David (masses) v. Goliath, an we know how that went...
I read somewhere the Morgue goes rigor mortis at $47 - seems like the exchanges are pulling out all the stops to defend something in that area.
From 2003-2008 MF Global Inc. was also involved in natural gas price manipulation:
http://www.cftc.gov/PressRoom/PressReleases/pr5763-09.html
"Man Financial." Is that "you da' man" Financial or does Man mean something else?
I got a check for $500 as a result of the class action lawsuit about that manipulation. It's a good thing that I hadn't gotten rid of the old trading records!
just got 500 more silver maples delivered today, the price drop will encourage people to buy physical over the weekend.
All that is happening is that they are giving people that missed the boat time to get on board.
disclosure: 50% silver 50% gold
Silver is up 20percent this month so why shouldn't margins go up?1 contract moves over $7000 p/l per day.There is no conspiracy,especially when u consider shorts margins are raised too!
...a rather good, obvious, point no one else mentioned here.
Personally I only deal in mining stocks...that is my background...and I have been investing in various ones for 40 years. Unlike about everyone else here, I like the leverage I get from owning the producers and from buying mine reserves at big discounts.
Of course there is added risk to be shouldered versus just buying the metal....sorry, no free lunch here. Plus, one is advised to keep in mind Samuel Clemens observation about gold mines: "A hole in the ground with a liar sitting on top."
Danimal
the reason the margin hikes look iffy is because a professional organisation, as you mention might hike rates as Silver climbs 20% in 1 month... but they'd do it in one hit ...doing it twice in 1 week looks like the Board of Directors are a bunch of incompetent, can't-make-their-minds-up, fuk-the-market-around idiots or as is suggested, conspiring to nobble Silvers rise...
....given the shit state of US administrators you couldn't rule out being both!!
Pop or poop???
Silver is up 20percent this month so why shouldn't margins go up?1 contract moves over $7000 p/l per day.There is no conspiracy,especially when u consider shorts margins are raised too!
Silver is up 20percent this month so why shouldn't margins go up?1 contract moves over $7000 p/l per day.There is no conspiracy,especially when u consider shorts margins are raised too!
3 times in 48 hours?
Pull the other one.
Silver is up 20percent this month so why shouldn't margins go up?1 contract moves over $7000 p/l per day.There is no conspiracy,especially when u consider shorts margins are raised too!
exactly. Margin increases are the most overhyped event there is amongst the hard core silver addicts.
This viewpoint is at odds with empirical facts -- prior to the last round of desperate margin hikes, they could be relied on to spike the price downward every time.
Even now I suspect the reason the price does not react is that JPM is buying into the action.
well, "copper prices are going through the roof even though there's no economy to support the price" so "how much silver goes into all those electronic devices sitting in all the stores not moving?" not so much anymore? so again, "why are silver prices rising in the first place?" if i'm MF and i'm a "holding company" for "miners and mfg's" isn't it my job to "get some price discovery here?" i'm speculating of course--and of course if MF is a "banker to the mining industry" then these miners should have "the metal" so to speak if "MF is told to make delivery."
Riiight. Except that it`s likely that the bigger the short the closer you are to having the issuer of FRN`s in your pocket, which means that margin hikes mean about as much to you as the value of the USD to Bernanke (IE not very). Whereas your average small spec long has to actually EARN the margin requirement so if he is `all in` and the margin gets hiked guess what he has to do with his position. Also, illegal or not, I would imagine it is much simpler for some to view who`s position is where, and what sort of ammo is in reserve in everyone`s accounts (this last bit is pure conjecture, granted.)
Again: 3 hikes in a week? C`mon. The last two silver wasn`t even trading at its latest highs. I mean since this happens so regulary with silver the longs were no doubt expecting it, keeping reserves in anticipation of margin hikes, and laughing hard at the first two hikes this week, but this third just REEKS of goalpost shifting, in my humble opinion.
Meh, on a long enough timeline it won`t matter anyway, because as it has been noted these kinds of shenanigans really have become blood in the water for the longs, who are growing in number. A few million people with 50 US bits and bytes each can get this jig up right smartly.
i've always understood "the guns and ammo are for anyone who comes for my silver." what i'm trying to figure out is "what's the abtract equivalent at the Wall Street level?" is it "JP Morgan vs MF Global?"
Meanwhile,
(Reuters) - U.S. stocks rose on Friday on strength from Caterpillar (CAT.N) and other industrials, lifting the Dow and Nasdaq to their best monthly performance since December.
So much for "Let them eat iPads." Caterpillar and other industrials are winning the future now.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/01/21/caterpillar-idUSN2121884220110121
Caterpillar spent decent money to get into this Chinese trade.
Are you dumb, or just missing the grade here?
Excuse me for being dumb and missing the grade. Caterpillar does deserve the award for leading the whole DOW and Nasdaq to their best monthly performance since December. Caterpillar's savvy moves in China do outweigh the other news items I've managed to understand with my inferior intellect, Mr. Use of Weapons.
Just buy physical silver as much as you can. I could not find any SE so bought giant box of phillies,it's all silver baby.
Gold lease rates as per Kitco have jumped 2000% Dont know why but such is life.
I'm picking up a note of crankiness in the ranks today
SUP!
You all made wealth in form or another if you were "in" this week. If you weren't well.... There's always next week.
Have a beer or six and relax. We did great this week. That cynicism though can get you down so lighten up some. The morgue, the hedgies, China, the squid all took cumshots in the teeth this week and that makes all the stress worth it.
Watch silver though..... Something to consider, if you haven't, is to sell a portion and make what's left free.That makes your play or insurance risk free.
You vets know this but the young'ins may not.
Just saying
we may be seeing a correction or the beginnigs of a reversal, in the gold/silver price ratio.
recently, silver has been going up faster, and the ratio has gone into the low 30's. now, it is back above 32, and silver is stalled below 50 for now, while gold took wings, today.
what this means is start looking at gold, here. if this price ratio changes direction and starts increasing, it means gold will be stronger than silver. the other horse may be taking the lead, now.
we shall see.
+1
Keep an eye boys and girls.
+1 ...not for the post but the name, Slewie the Pi-Rat
They don't want your money speculating metals. They want your money back into S&P500, to entice corporations to hire workers because they are profitting from inflation.
what's the connect between buying stocks and companies hiring staff?
Allows management to take more risk....risk of entering new markets, rolling out new products, hiring new staff to try to expand their business, because CEO looks good on paper due to constant demand for the company's stock.
Like bill gates....if you had million dollar trust fund back in the 1980s, wouldn't you quit college to try to hit a grand home run by starting your own company especially with the lead your mother gave you from IBM? The safety net encourages risk taking.
............... double post
In my world of coin collecting we understand that PAPER trades aren't, like FIAT funny money, worth the paper that they are printed on. I have been building up a substantial supply of the real PHYSICAL silver stuff for years... and let me tell you, the margin above the "PAPER" price of silver grows by the week as the PHYSICAL silver becomes harder and harder to come by.
Wall Street can't get its head around the fact that this is a trade it no longer controls. There are a growing army of people around the world buying the real thing; and everytime they do the pressure on the Comex to cover its mature silver trades becomes even more acute.
So who cares what Wall Street does? It is becoming laughable and irrelevant.
Ozzie Scott
Rise up ye little peasants. The Rebellion grows!
Corzine! What a bozo. Goldman Sachs is the mothership of alien pod people. I hope both his legs still ache at night when he tries to sleep.
Gold lease rates as per Kitco have jumped 2000% Dont know why but such is life.
Looks like it's time for a "Performance Bond" futures contract on silver...
Looks like it's time for a "Performance Bond" futures contract on silver...
Damn right people will be buying the dip this weekend. As a note to myself, if the silver market is leveraged 100/1, every ounce I buy takes $4800 of paper money from someone, somewhere. I love it.
It's not a some'one' it's a some'thing', but please don't let that slow you down
double post...
Looks like it's time for a "Performance Bond" futures contract on silver...
I am still laughing about the Texas dude's comment on CEO.
we may be seeing a correction or the beginnigs of a reversal, in the gold/silver price ratio.
recently, silver has been going up faster, and the ratio has gone into the low 30's. now, it is back above 32, and silver is stalled below 50 for now, while gold took wings, today.
what this means is start looking at gold, here. if this price ratio changes direction and starts increasing, it means gold will be stronger than silver. the other horse may be taking the lead, now.
we shall see.
Gold/Silver ratio is a good play if you can time it right for the BIG swings. I shall be watching it closely in the coming days, as there isn't a definite signal yet and I'll still be looking for that elusive 15:1 ratio or better, eventually. The Silver/DJI, Gold/DJI are also ones to watch in conjunction with the Gold/Silver.
earlier, there was an article on goldSeek that as gold drove higher, silver was about to log its best month, ever.
i don't know if that's true or not, but april was a hoot, eh?
there are persisitent reports that there were record option volumes and quite possibly exercises. i've seen some big #s but no analysis. we can see some reports, but i'll bet blythe has a much better picture. i wonder if the margin upskies might be related to what went down in the option markets.
Watch for Adrian Douglas he provided info yesterday about that. They will post something at GATA or Market Force Analysis first I'd imagine if there is something to say (or Harvey Organ too).
Here is something shared by GATA today by Gene Arensberg at www.gotgoldreport.com:
Significant COMEX Commercial Short Covering for Silverhttp://www.gotgoldreport.com/2011/04/significant-comex-commercial-short-...
Whos complaining? I have more physical Silver I wish to buy. These egg heads are doing me a favor. Let's not upset them before we're all done buying up physical. It's either us or the Chinese.....
The margin hikes are just standard procedure, when prices rise they need more margin...perfectly logical. Don't pay attentionto these conspiracy theorists, they probably don't even believe that we have a strong dollar policy and they probably think wtc7 wasn't hit by a plane.
Hey there is a ETF (exchange traded fund) for some precious metals now, they may even have one for silver, so you don't have to worry about all the hassle of storing it.
If you do not have it in your hands you do not own it!
--Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez
Haven't read all the posts, but raising margins is not new, nor is it all bad, unless you are on the losing side.
The result is predictable, new buying is discouraged, particularlly compounding, and losers have to fold.
If you are a winner, you have a even greater stake. You want that contract honored. A trader needs the exchange to survive. So the stupid may blow ignorant smoke, but it should be embarassing. This is not a tea party.
We have just seen what happens to private derivative markets with fake choices and prices. Wake up, the world has real components, not just opinion. You may believe you can jump off tall buildings with no risk, but don't make fun of reality for the sake of others.
@ oldmanagain: We have just seen what happens to private derivative markets with fake choices and prices.
care to tell us wtf yer talkin about?
slewie, i'm surprised. it's called "AIG." No biggie, move along, move along.
that's why i asked!
"just"???
Read the history books on the Weimar folks. The people that profited from the inflation forced upon the native Germans did not fare very well aftewards.
I think you are being downright stupid by continuing to reference the Weimar and now trademarking it.
Weimar inflation will not be good for anyone. It won't matter how many guns you have.
The current rally in Au and Ag is over along with the commodities. Listen to the Bernank, he has said it over and over, inflation is transitory. He will pull the plug and soon if this carry trade speculation continues. It happened in 2008 and it will happen again.
Remember he controls the game not some two bit player in Alaska with his glock and ammo stash.
2008 all the weak hands dumped PM's to pay for other shit. Margin hikes like this are constantly liquidating the weak hands. You're assuming that a new 'liquidity' event will again force precious metal holders to sell for fiat because of similar reasons. I don't buy that premise.
I'm not saying that a 2008 'deflationary' episode can't ever happen again, or that the Bernak wont 'get religion' in 15 minutes. But the preception of Gold and Silver as world reserve currencies is much stronger today. A flight to safety here on out will mean a flight to PM's. And we'll know that we are winning as physical dries up and premiums go up!
I'm inclined to agree.
There are cash buyers of Silver here.
They don't care (ultimately) what price COMEX puts on its derivative concoction.
There is change happening.
But not the change Obama talked about.
Yeah obama gave us change. Unfortunately that is all that's left in many people's pockets.
I saw a bumper sticker yesterday as I was driving home that read in bold letters 'GOT HOPE?' I thought it was from a local church so I drove up behind the car to read the fine print below. Lo and behold it was none other than Obama's website.
Why is my gut telling me that STILL the majority of Americans are clueless and will need shelter from the storm. And speaking of that http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsyqQmnI0gc
Youtube link bocked in my country.
What's your country got against Bob Dylan??
Youtube is considered by some to be a den of Copyright Pirates...
Its not our countries that have something against Bob, its your country and its corporations of greed ;)
unless of course we're on the verge of hyperinflation. just speculating...OF COURSE...but, "there is no money" in a hyperinflation in the sense "the paper it is printed on is VERY valuable" but in reality "it's being used to sell bad art" so it can't be exchanged for any physical good whatsover--at least in terms that seem recognizable to even the most "i'm a friggin' genius when in fact i'm not" type. to be specific "would you exchange your 1 oz of gold for the billion Reichsmarks?" leaving aside the minor logistical issue of course. and "if not, what would you exchange your one ounce of gold for?"
Just wanted to let the bears on slv know, = meth head. Was out on monday at open, jumped into may 50's tuesday and loaded more again thursday with the early London floor closing crash. Was out all cash/fiat within an hour. = enough fiat to get ten more tubes lol.
I love me some physical buying, thank you bears! Keep up the good work, lol.
Sarc off.
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I would also like to thank everyone here for the great post of knowledge on the market's/economy/physical buying.
You all have helped alot of good people see the light with your vast knowledge.
In my opinion, possibly saving lives in the future if we see a massive crash.
Thank you all.
Please enlighten us on how he could "pull the plug" this time? I don't see any way for him to pull it off this time without "killing the patient" in the process.
You might want to give a quick re-read of history, also. Germany did not degrade into a mad max scenario at the peak of hyperinflation. Although there were obviously pockets of areas which got heated between townsfolk and farmers. The banking/political classes are certainly going to take the blame for this one this time.
However, that was a different era and people probably acted much more civil and had a deep sense of community. There is very little of that present in America's urban and suburban populations. I think the only areas that would stay clear would be more rural areas where there is still that sense of a community. The further you live from a major population center, the better(I am guessing).
I know how Ben pulls the plug. One day he's supposed to have a press conference. The world is waiting for him to approach the mic. Minutes pass, then hours. Suddenly phones are rining, twitter is tweeting, facebook is...fooking, emails are being sent and nobody can find the master of the universe.
He will never be seen again. Everything goes black...except for shiney things that are in bubbles.
never mind the patient... what happens to the Fed itself. Maiden Lane 2 with a DV01, as reported by ZH, of $1.5 BILLION, 1% rise in rates = $150 BILLION loss on the portfolio.
After 2% that's $300 billion loss and that only takes the 10 year back to 5%. Maybe Pimco will be buying then?
Volcker took rates to almost 20%. Imagine if Bernake did that... the entire value of ML2 would be written off. Oh wait, my bad, the 'equity' the US taxpayer will have in the Federal Reserve will be -$3 trillion. Awesome deferred tax asset (all US taxpayers should be able to claim a loss on ML 2 then). Ok nevermind. we're fine. move along.
Inflation is permanent, unless there is a period of dis-inflation.
That is the whole point.
If you don't get it you don't get it.
"The people that profited from the inflation" - bothsidesnow Prescott Bush did ok even after he got busted for trading with the enemy right?
Well we are so stupid you probably shouldn't be hanging around here; it might rub off.
The real stupid people around here BTFD in 2008 probably. Ha! Dumbasses.
Oh and incidentally Ben Bernanke said a lot of things and you'd be wise to listen to them all!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QpD64GUoXw
Are you on drugs?!! ... or do they give you internet privileges at the institution now?
Watching gold today off and on - not given to hyperbole but it is looking a little parabolic.
There is no "a little" parabolic - so you are hyperbolic.
++
Long day!
No change here. They can try and knock it down all they want. Not going to happen. We have a long, long way to go. Forget the daily drama. Stay focused and we will be fine.
A non-event http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-04-29/high-frequency-trades-manipulat... With this hike, they want some contracts to go poof, and take lollars instead of physical.
This indeed is going nowhere - quote: “that are potentially manipulative, like quote-stuffing,” LOLz
What about: "Frontrunning" "Skimming/Steeling" "Criminal Charges"
Also not appearing in this list - quote: "Berger said market manipulation was among six of his task force’s priority areas, which include insider trading, Ponzi schemes, accounting fraud, asset forfeiture and structured financial products."
Perhaps someone can help me here.
The more margins are "hiked" the more the Silver market becomes a cash market.
The more Silver becomes a cash market the less the derivative influence.
The less the derivative influence the greater price transparency.
In other words.
The more they hike the margin the higher the cash price of Silver.
Price discovery?
I'd like to hear an answer to this question as well
The answer is 42
With a margin hike like that, it would seem MF Global was on the other side of their clients trade (shorting) and they want them (MF Clients) to pay for their losses as they cover.
Sounds crazy but I dont trust any of these
CEO's = (Con Everyone Officer's)
P.S. Chilton of the cftc is on fauxbusiness news saying he is investigating "those" terrorist commodity speculators.
Chilton Quote to Lou Dobbs: "Those investors have no use for the underlying physical of any commodity"
LOL
Flame thy post not; for I agree with margin hikes on the precious and gold too. Buying such things on time be intolerable.
Currently it is the fiat rules. He who has the fiat, makes the rules. Tide is about to change, gold (i.e. the king) is stepping up.
Modality conversion speak; when thee hear these blokes on the tele talking growth; convert that in thy minds eye to energy consumption. Hence forward growth is energy consumption; and growth does not equate to prosperity.
Wow.....
....that looks like real gains, without breaking a sweat. And the USD is down 1 year 20%, which is biting into equities. But they're a good game if you can play it, Robo.
Hey Robotrader...
If silver represents a given buying power, in terms of currency units, and someone devalues that buying power at say 5% per year, then silver would appear to grow in price exponentially over time. If they suddenly printed trillions of currency units or changed the rate to 10% per year, then silver would appear to rocket in price. It would appear to be a bubble. I can create a chart for you, if you like, perhaps you will then understand.
In fact it's the parachute effect; 2 skydivers jump out of a plane plummeting downwards, one with a video camera attached to his head. They appear to be flying gracefully according to the video camera. The diver without the camera pulls his rip cord, and to the camera he appears to rocket upwards, in reality he has just slowed his descent and the camera continues plummeting downwards.
This is the reality of our situation. Some are just plummeting faster than others. Sliver's rip cord has been pulled. Many, if not most here understand the situation. Stocks, shares, commodities don't increase. The currency simply devalues, taking the nation's citizens with it. The truth is, it is theft on an epic scale. It is treason. The people responsible should be hanging from lamp posts as examples.
100% margin requirements on ALL commodity speculation by non end users would be the beginning of a sensible policy aimed at curbing banker-gangster exploitation of public money.
Tunga wears his Weimar rally Cap in backwardation mode.
.
If the Bernanke (the ChairSatan) wants to take on the commodity market, don't think for a moment, he doesn't have the tools to do so.
All he needs to do is increase the interest paid on bank reserves, instead of
raising interest rates. This way, it starts to take the steam out of
commodities...
Look at the data, the markets are being goosed with the US$ being shorted and silver being hedged.
I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this to you before---or whether you just missed it---but gold and silver are not commodities.
Indeed, until very recent times, they only had ornamental use in addition to their monetary store of value. Unlike pork bellies and corn, gold that was mined 3,000 years ago is still being worn, traded and stored.
You're technically correct...
The narrative however doesn't change.
You can cut their desperation from the air with a knife.
To infinity, and beyond!
+ Q Pork Chop!
Weimar rallyTM
Ahahahahaha!
Thank you, ZH!
Hi Ho, Silver, Away!
It seems that people dont have a clue as to the reason behind having margins on commodities and futures. These exists to protect the custodian agent from losses on large market moves that could wipe out existing collateral. With silver moving 6% on wednesday alone and looking rather parabolic on charts - 6% margin no longer seems enough particularloy with close to 10% roundtrip in the beginning of the week. No conspiracy theories here - just prudent business risk management
Another move in the goalposts.
It's not long before these hikes become BULLISH.
Normally I stay on the sideline for the silver tirades - because arguing over owning PM's or whether their price will move up or down over the next few days, weeks or months is an exercise in futility equaled only by outrage over MARKET OWNERS rigging the game in their favor.
However, we are coming up on the anniversary of Waddell & Reed crashing the markets by selling a staggeringly small percentage of the ES contracts in trade and a stray thought popped into my head ...
A year ago silver was trading below $20/oz and stayed there pretty firmly until the ChairSatan ruled there would be QE forever ...
After which the markets took off but have been led the entire way by PM's and commodities ...
Leading to endless speculation on when the shorts (including proposed market manipulators) would be laid waste by the continuing elevation of PM prices ...
... but isn't the far simpler solution for the shorts to have another flash crash?
barliman
The W&R 'Flash Crash' was directed at Congress. It wasn't meant to scare investors out of the markets. Indeed, every effort has been made since then---by .gov's MSM mouthpieces---to muster the sheep into the market. All the easier to shear them (read: strip clean) there!
It should also be noted that the Dow:Gold ratio has been falling steadily since 1999 (see here) and is yet to fall below the levels of the early '90s, let alone the even lower levels of the roaring '80s.
who's the bigger criminal: Corzine, Paulson, or Soros?
Can't we just hang them all? It's so hard to pick just one!
For the sake of debate, though, I would suggest that Soros is one of the criminal masterminds, Paulson is a capo within the crime family and Corzine is a foot soldier shaking down shopkeepers and little old ladies. So my vote for the noose would be Soros.
If the COMEX and CFTC had put real emphasis on limiting the position size of JPM and their bevy of fund puppets they wouldn’t need to be making these constant adjustments in margin percentages now. A real fair and competitive market in silver would have evolved over the years instead of the circus we are observing now. Like it or not, the price of your physical silver is still primarily governed by what happens in the paper futures market. Much as I would like to take a larger position in physical silver for the long run than I have now, I for one choose not to take any more risky moves on the high trapeze while these a-holes continue to control the lights and hold the net.
FUCK you Bernanke, Fuck you Jamie.
I don't care any more what this means to me. If it hurts the Federal Reserve and the Oligarchs, even if it hurts me too, I'm for it.
Bring it.
And again, my big request is that when the shit really hits the fan here that its obvious even to normal ignorant American's as to who is responsible.
Bring it.
FX spot trade XAG! WQho (pun intended) would even think about buying XAG right now?
Hey it's been a while. I've been tweeting. Anyway, just an update from someone whose been collecting/accumulating gold, silver, platinum and palladium for a couple years now. With a coin collecting background, I starting picking up what I thought were more interesting, lower mintage gold and platinum coins. It's just been recently that not only has the price of gold been going up, but the premiums have been going up too, suggesting supply shortages or increased demand.
Gold coins such as the .99999 Maple Leaf or some of the burnished American Eagles used to sell for about $100 over spot gold. Now it's hundreds over spot, and many are sold out. Just a year ago I was buying silver Eagles and Maple Leafs for $16-20 per coin, any date, now I look and most dates are sold out, and what is available is $5 or more over spot, and spot is $47. Frankly I was shocked.
Even when there was increasing interest in gold and silver over the past decade, the bullion coins were easy to find, with good selection. Within the past few months there has literally been a run on the physical metal. Its still there, but you can't be too picky and you have to pay up. The Austrian Philharmonics are nice gold and silver coins, but not as well known in the US. These are still available and represent a good relative value.
Based on what I'm seeing in the bullion coin market, there has been a big spike in demand for bullion. I think the futures market reflects that. It's not just Americans who are desperately trying to convert their trillions of cash into a store of value like metals, its also Indians, Chinese, Brazilians, Asians, Russians, etc.
I have my account at MF Global and I have NOT received notice as yet but believe it. It is my belief that these actions hurt those trading against the trend. The margin hike puts even more pressure on the shorts IMO. Notice how we have had small selloffs right before the COMEX close the last few days to paint the tape and reduce the margin calls for those short. The clearing firms also have the right to issue a call during the trading day. If you think about it, the CME margin amount is only a $3 move which we have had a few times already this month. MF Global is just covering their rears and you will probably see similar action by others. If the daily ranges get even bigger expect to see more margin increases.
The world was moving
She was right there with it
and she was
Robert DuVall said it BEST!
"I love the smell of margin hikes in the morning... smells like, victory".
question, why wouldnt this be an obvious sign of firm in the know trying to avoid exposure for client losses. for example, lets assume they have confirmed the comex is dry. if a client wants them to buy silver futures and they doi it, dont they expose themselves legally to their clients who may miss out on profits due to default? so to encourage future buyers to go through another firm, dont they minimize their exposure?
just thinking out loud here
turd called it..
another margin hike followed by a concentrated media blitz to whack pm's. i expect to be reading (or ignoring) dozens of such articles over this weekend.
i personally would like to see some of the froth taken out of the silver market. a steady $2-$3 rise per week would be ideal. parabolic jumps are not good for longterm investors.
cash is trash !
Sold my silver earller in the week having made triple digit percentage "gains" and just bought platinum instead. It's been dropped to 1.2 pt/au ratio since the crash, so I think the speculators got kicked out in 08 and also due to reduced catalytic converter production. However, gold and silver lease rates are taking off, while platinum is flat.
Gold lease rates are.. Lets say it's going to be an interesting week next week.
Jon Corzine is well respected and followed on Wall Street,so I would expect other houses to follow in his footsteps and raise their margins also.
Then you have un-informed idiots like Harvey Organ claiming silver margin is Initial plus Maintenence. Just goes to prove that idiot never traded one single contract of any futures contract in his life.
Well, margin for the physical is constant - 100%, so fuck CME or MF Global, jump you fuckers!
and silver opens the week down 13%. sweet.