It's Going To Implode: Buy Physical Gold - NOW
For previous articles by the author go to: Gordon Gekko's Blog
Evidence seems to be mounting that we are headed towards some sort of implosion in the paper Gold market, and perhaps the currency/bond markets in general. Let’s take a look:
Jacksonville, FL based EverBank – a bank with approximately $8 billion in assets and 1800 employees according to the company website – recently sent this notice to customers (courtesy of Warren Bevan):
"Non-FDIC Insured Metals Select Changes" -
Section 6.3.7. General Terms: We have added language clarifying our right to close your account. We may close your Metals Select Account at anytime upon reasonable notice to you. If we believe that it is necessary to close your account immediately in order to limit losses by you or us [GG: We really don’t give a s**t about you; it’s us that we care about], we may close your account prior to providing notice to you. Notice from us to one of you is notice to all of you [GG: the nerve of these people!]. If we close your account, we reserve the right to convert your Precious Metals to U.S. dollars and tender the balance to you by mail [GG: I am willing to bet my entire Gold stash that when you receive these "converted" dollars, they will be nowhere near the market price of physical. What did you think that whole "limit losses" thing meant?] .
If you have a "Non FDIC Insured Metals Select" account with these people, you can pretty much say goodbye to any chances of ever seeing your metal. This is a clear sign that the (already tight) availability of physical metal at the manipulated Comex futures paper price is in danger of vanishing altogether. Think about it. What is the scenario in which they avoid catastrophic losses while at the same time sending you the US dollar value of the metal? When the official or Comex price has fully decoupled from the physical price. Expect to see more such notices from banks offering Metals "Investments".
Citibank recently issued this notice to its checking account (remember the type of account where you thought you could withdraw your money whenever you wanted? Well, not anymore) customers (via Market Ticker):
Withdrawal Notice:
We reserve the right to require seven (7) days advance notice before permitting a withdrawal from all checking, savings and money market accounts. We currently do not exercise this right and have not exercised it in the past.
Hmm…let me see. Why would a bank need to impose withdrawal restrictions? Has this kind of a thing happened before somewhere? Could it be because of the danger of a bank run/capital flight from the United States? Why would Citibank fear bank runs? Why would money flee the US banking system/US? Could it be because the entire US banking system and the US Government is INSOLVENT and people - fearing a collapse in the dollar’s value (in terms of real goods i.e. for all you Prechterites out there) - rush to withdraw money convert it into real goods such as precious metals? You tell me. Also, could they maybe increase this notice period from seven to whatever the hell they want whenever they want? What will you do then? Even if you don’t buy Gold with it, withdrawing your cash from America’s insolvent banks is a very wise strategy at this point.
One of Mish’s readers Construction Insider recently sent him this little nugget:
Hi Mish
I work in the construction business and something has been creeping to the forefront of my attention for the past few weeks and now it seems to be moving full steam ahead.
Banks are forcing developers/builders (especially smaller ones) to give up their properties (unsold homes and lots).
Banks say the reason is that the properties in question are no longer performing assets. I am sure there are some loans out there that are not performing and the owners are going under. I am equally sure that there are plenty of developers that are still selling homes - just not at the pace originally planned on the pro formas.
Having inside information on one of these scenarios that happened today, I cannot help but wonder what is really going on? The bank told a small developer/builder I work for that they were taking back his ongoing subdivision.
He is selling houses and updated pro formas would indicate that the current sales pace would exhaust all remaining lots within 33 months. Yet the bank stated they would only give him until April 15 to find alternative financing. The bank is also willing to let him buy the subdivision at a 33% discount to what is currently owed.
If he is unable to obtain this backing, the bank will let him walk away without penalty or consequence so they can write it off.
I have been on the phone trying to put some of these pieces together. It seems there are many banks doing the same thing. However, there is apparently no interest [or ability - Mish] from anyone wanting to pick up land/lots at 30% - 50% discounts to today's prices.
Another interesting point is that the banks all state that they must have these situations written off or taken care of by the end of Q2.
Looks to me like DaBoyz are calling in the loans while the currency still has some value. Does the government plan some type of overt currency devaluation or expect the dollar to collapse on the currency markets of its own sorry weight? The cracks are already appearing in the Bond market. Foreigners are increasingly fleeing the Treasury auctions. The only thing keeping them going is manufactured "deflation" fears from time-to-time. A recent 30 year auction (10th February, 2010 to be precise) practically failed. This is what Mr. Denninger had to say about it:
Bad. Actually, let's go worse than bad and call it what it is - by any definition this is just one step off from "Failed."
The more-worrying factor here is that we've got this "mystery" direct buyers out here again taking nearly 25% of the offered amount (who is bidding for that undisclosed?) and another 11% taken down by The Fed for the SOMA account.
Yet even with this Treasury had to pay up to get it to go and the bid-to-cover was anemic at best.
Given the Primary Dealer system we have in this country, any BTC under 2.0 is an effective fail. To get an auction that behaves in this sort of fashion, complete with mystery direct bidders and heavy SOMA (Fed) participation, yet Treasury has to pay up in the form of a significantly higher coupon is not a good sign at all.
And this is what happened on 23rd February, 2010 for a 4-week $37 billion Treasury Bill auction (Per Graham Summers):
There are times in life when one witnesses something so outside the scope of normal experience, that at first you don’t see it.
Captain Cook’s diaries tell us that upon first seeing his ships offshore in Australia, the aborigines expressed “neither surprise nor concern.” Cook notes that it was not until he and his men approached the shore in smaller, more familiar vessels that the villagers reacted, arming themselves as “the sight of men in small boats was comprehensible to them: it meant invasion.”
Well, I had a similar experience during yesterday’s bond auction.
Roughly, 27% of the auction took place at the highest rate. This means nearly one third of the demand from competitive bidders (those who care about yield) came at the HIGHEST yield that was accepted. In plain terms, this alone tells you that investors want higher yields from Treasuries since nearly a full third of the debt issuance took place at the highest REQUIRED yield.
Of the competitive bids (meaning those bids coming from folks who care about yield), roughly 70% went to Primary Dealers (investors who HAVE to buy the debt and who usually turn around and try to sell it afterwards). To put this number into perspective here is the percentage of competitive purchases made by Primary Dealers in the last four 4-week Treasury issuances:
...yesterday’s auction featured MORE buys from Primary Dealers than almost any of those occurring in 2010. Remember, Primary Dealers HAVE to buy Treasuries. So to see them buying a high percentage of Treasuries at debt auctions means that few investors who can pick and choose what to buy are actually looking to buy US debt.
Of the remaining competitive buys (about $8.86 billion), only 32% came from Direct Bidders or those who bought debt directly from the Treasury: orders that can easily be tracked. The other 68% ($5.9 billion) came from Indirect Bidders: folks who we cannot track.
Even more bizarre, only $5.9 billion in Indirect Bidder competitive buys were ACTUALLY OFFERED. So we had a 100% acceptance rate for Indirect Bidder competitive buys.
Let’s put this in perspective:
This means that the Treasury took up EVERY single cent of competitive bids coming from indirect buyers. Remember, indirect buyers are usually assumed to be foreign governments (even the Treasury website admits this).
If this was the case yesterday, then foreign governments barely bought much of anything in yesterday’s auction (only 19% of total debt issued). Moreover, it implies that Primary Dealers (those having to buy) had to gorge on the auction to make up for the fact that few if any foreign governments are interested in buying our debt anymore (including even short-term debt).
So basically the demand from the indirects (i.e. foreigners) for US Debt is drying up and the Treasury is taking all of whatever miniscule amounts they are offering. As if that was not enough, we had another similar auction on 9th Match, 2010 (via zerohedge):
Two weeks after the indirect hit ratio in the 4 week auction came at a record 100%, today it was once again at almost at the all time possible high, with Indirect Bids of just $6.744 billion taking down $6.683 billion, resulting in a 99.1% hit ratio. The chart of the recent Indirect hit ratio in recent 4 week bill auctions is attached:
What’s more, the yield doubled from two weeks ago. What we are witnessing here, in my opinion, is the beginning moves of a complete and total repudiation of the US Bond market, and indeed, all dollar denominated paper financial assets.
Jim Sinclair recently had two gentlemen from Poland and Russia speak up at his Toronto meeting. This is what they had to say (in Jim’s words):
Dear Extended Family,I believe the most important event at our Toronto CIGA meeting was the testimony of two attendees.Two men spoke independently. One is a Canadian resident from Russia and the other from Poland.Both said the same thing, "All the signs that preceded our inflation of more than 100% per year are here now in the West."What more do you need to know?Regards,Jim
Any unbiased observer who knows how to put two and two together will be able to tell that something very fishy is going on. The urgency with which trillions in debt is being shoved down the market's throat at the worst possible time for the US Economy has the distinct smell of the government trying to extract every last bit of money from those stupid enough to buy the bonds before it all blows up. Rest assured, a huge chunk of this money is being funneled to the insiders who are most likely covertly using it up to buy real assets for themselves while keeping the crowds distracted with the stock market circus.
The bond market is the backbone of the US Ponzi Finance system. When it goes – and the day is not far in my opinion - the whole enchilada will come crashing down. Any type of financial asset that has a counterparty – which is pretty much all the paper assets in the world – bonds, futures, any and all derivatives and yes, even the paper currency – will crash. What will they crash against? Yes, that’s right - Gold. All the world’s capital – trillions, perhaps quadrillions of it - will come rushing into the very tiny physical (NOT paper) Gold market. Remember, the world’s real physical capital – real assets such as land, oil-refineries, mines, infrastructure, etc. will not vanish, only it will be re-priced in terms of Gold and its ownership transferred to those who hold it. Since everything stays on this planet, it is a zero-sum game and the winner will be Gold. In other words, an ounce of physical Gold will command a lot more in real purchasing power than it does today. Just like a national currency is a claim on goods and assets within that country, Gold will be a claim on global goods and assets worldwide.
Paper Gold Will FAIL
Today what you think of the price of Gold is nothing but the price of paper Gold. "What is the difference between the two? We are still getting the metal at the price we see on the COMEX, are we not?", you may ask. Sure, but the key word is still. Even today you have to pay "premium" to the futures price to get physical ranging from about $50 for some coins to about $10 for bars. When it all blows, these “premiums” will skyrocket and the price of physical WILL decouple from the official paper price (this is what the guys at EverBank are scared s--tless about), as we already witnessed in 2008 – and this is the good scenario. Indeed, we may have a situation where there is no physical available at any paper price.
1. The GLD ETF
The problems with the GLD ETF are too numerous to enlist here but why bother when they have already mentioned 'em all in their prospectus! It is simply another Wall Street scam designed to rip off the retail investor and rest assured, when the SHTF, you will be the last in line since the insiders need somebody to hold the bag in order for them to get bailed out. YOU will be the one left holding the bag. Unless you have a direct line to Ben Bernanke, I suggest you get the hell out of any paper ETF’s such as GLD, SLV, etc. Remember AIG? It’s all good until it isn’t.
2. The Gold Futures Market
The futures market is nothing but a tool for the dollar managers (US Government/Fed/Bullion banks) to manage/control the price of Gold. Any rational observer with an iota of brain who has watched the gold market for any reasonable length of time can tell that the price is intentionally driven down during the Comex trading hours. If you don’t believe this, either you’re in denial or worse – collusion - and IT WILL end up costing you big time. Given the massive, concentrated and long-term (the entire past decade - they haven't been net-long - not once - during that time period) nature of their short positions, it really isn’t that hard to deduce that the banks do not nearly have enough metal to cover their shorts and that the sole intention of the massive short position is to control the price. Whenever the price rises (or threatens to rise) the big bullion banks ala JP Morgan create massive naked shorts introducing fake supply of Gold in the market, thus driving the price down. “But the price has been rising for the past decade, hasn’t it? So how can you say they are driving it down?”, many people ask. Well, the constraint on the bullion banks has been the availability of the physical metal. If the metal is not available, the fraud of the paper market is exposed and they lose their price managing ability. So they allow the price rise to a level at which there are some weak hands willing to sell and then they hold it there till all the sellers have been exhausted (I am assuming the Fed has already sold all the US Gold during the past decade). So strong are Gold’s fundamentals that despite the massive rigging, all they have been able to do is slow its rise. The weak hands who sell the physical metal at every price rise have helped them in this endeavor. But soon, as the bond market implodes, they will run out of sellers. Treat the availability of real metal at today's paper price a gift and buy as much as you can.
To those who think that the Comex shorts will be crushed one day and the price of paper Gold will do a moonshot, to them I will say that you are dreaming. The Comex shorts will be crushed, but not in their own casino! If and when a majority of paper Gold longs demand delivery a force majure (who do you think the US Government will side with?) will be declared with cash settlements and/or offers of equally worthless GLD shares (don’t tell me you didn’t know about this). By some accounts, this is already happening. What will happen to the paper price then? That’s right – it will utterly collapse even as the physical’s price is rocketing. Paper gold holders will dump it all to buy the physical – which, unfortunately – will most likely not be available at all. Yes, yours truly has been trading the paper [Gold] markets himself, but only with the objective of converting the paper profits onto the metal. Having said that, in light of the sum total of the recent developments mentioned in this update I think it is too risky to be trading right now and one should just sit 100% in physical Gold and some currency for day-to-day needs.
Additionally, there is increasing evidence that the Europeans have withdrawn support from Wall Street’s paper Gold market (COMEX and the LBMA, which also operates on a fractional reserve basis as documented here) and are in favor of setting up a physical only Gold market (this is quite a long story - for details, I suggest you go through FOFOA’s blog). Jim Willie had this to say in a recent piece (he’s been accurate on many things so far, so I at least pay attention when he has something to say):
Fast approaching is the event of GAME OVER for London, a condition that has already reached critical level, according to a key reliable source of information with London connections and direct experience with its market events. How long can a major metals exchange sell contracts but have miniscule supply of gold in their vaulted possession? The paper gold market and the physical gold bullion market have finally separated in a practical manner, meaning actual gold has almost no role anymore in London paper contract settlement. The absence of gold in London requires extraordinary tactics to settle contracts and to obtain gold bullion. Red tape procedures delay delivery for individuals, and bribes accompany gold delivery demands as standard practice. The London Bullion Market Assn has almost zero gold, its supply having been drained in high volumes since early December, a process currently in acceleration. The opportunity to convert fiat money into precious metal at prices considered reasonable is also vanishing. The London gold banker said,"There is going on a lot more than meets the eye. The physical system is actually consolidating bigtime and is organizing itself with lightning speed, totally hidden from pretty much anyone, even the so-called insiders. The paper precious metal market and the physical precious metal market have defacto disconnected. The paper and physical gold markets currently operate in parallel universes. The outflow of physical metal from bank vaults is happening at a mind bending pace."
Wall Street and the US Dollar are being increasingly marginalized at the global level with China having instructed its companies to renege on Wall Street’s derivative contracts last year; Russia, Middle-East and China setting up their regional currency blocs; Germany calling for an end to the CDS casino and the recent exclusion of Wall Street banks from European Government bond market. For obvious reasons, none of this is getting much play in the lapdog US media.
Physical Gold in your personal possession is the only thing that will survive the coming financial Armageddon. What we are witnessing right now is nothing but the calm before the storm. Keen observers are hearing rumblings beneath the ground signaling an imminent volcanic eruption. Once it blows it will be too late to take action. Trading paper markets for paper gains is like picking up pennies in front of the steamroller. It’s time to stop trading and just buy the physical metal. The window of opportunity to convert your casino chips (fiat money) into real money, i.e. Gold, is getting smaller by the hour. He who panics first, panics best.
GET. GOLD. NOW.
Disclaimer: Nothing in this commentary should be construed as investment advice or guidance or any recommendation to buy or sell any financial instrument. It is not intended as investment advice or guidance, nor is it offerred as such. It is solely the opinion of the writer, who is NOT an investment counselor/professional. All content of this commentary is solely an expression of his personal interests and is posted as free-of-charge commentary and is subject to error and change without notice. Please do your own due diligence before investing in ANYTHING. The presence of link to a website does not indicate approval or endorsement of that website or any services, products or opinions that may be offerred by them.
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on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 07:53
#261590
GG: The global economy is headed for a disaster of biblical proportions.
Chopper Ben: What do you mean, "biblical"?Tyler Durden: What he means is Old Testament, Benny, real wrath of God type stuff.
Marla: Exactly. Tyler Durden: Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling!Marla: Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes...Mish: The dead rising from the grave!GG: Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!Chopper Ben: You better buy physical gold then, I'll have Timmy fix you up round the back ... not!
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 09:11
#261641
The dead rising from the grave........interesting proposition....my years of fake zombie killing have not been entirely wasted.......my shelves of double aught and .45 acp will come in handy.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 09:49
#261690
WHO YA GONNA CALL - GOLD BUSTERS!
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 23:22
#262810
Another excellent article GG.
GLD paper gold:
Excerpt from recent FOFOA post:
The problem is very simple indeed. This week alone the U.S. Treasury is borrowing 1 1/2 times the entire annual global production of Gold. And how much have they borrowed the week before that and the week before that...? The math is impossible and the lifeboat far too small to accommodate anyone even 1 second too late! What could "never happen" 2 or 3 years ago has already happened and then some. Now we wait for sovereigns, U.S. states and cities, even the U.S. Treasury to default...........or hyperinflate.
Beware believing the illusion:
The control grid includes the media, banking, education system, cross corporate initiatives (CFR), and the entertainment industry. These often promote propaganda/specific agendas meant to mold public opinion and make them receptive to change and provide direction from a handful of powerful individuals. Fear and greed, the carrot and the stick are used to motivate human behavior.
Santa Claus is a good figment of the imagination for children, while grown "adults" are afraid of people living in Aristotles cave in the middle east convinced that they are trying to kill us because they "hate our freedom". Kissinger stated, "Today Americans would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order; tomorrow they will be grateful. This is especially true if they were told there was an outside threat from beyond, whether real or promulgated, that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will plead with world leaders to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well being granted to them by their world government."
As honest money leaves the system (going into physical as trust in paper logically falters due to irresponsible monetary and fiscal policies) they will change the system to be based on reduced consumption using the false global warming argument and CO2 tracking/carbon credits which is just another tool to control the masses (requires transaction information on all your activities - of course so that we can "save the world").
All the information will be on an implantable microchip, they will continue to plan events (PRS) to justify moving to this system. National health care fits into this agenda, property rights on your own body. Likewise, global H1N1, global warming, and a global financial system (IFM calling for one currency and IBS global oversight power grab) are all "global" problems created to justify a centrally controlled solution, operative word control. Tyranny can take any apparent form of governance regardless of what it is called dictatorship, republic, communism, socailism, fascism as long as power is centralized.
Don't listen to individuals telling you how you should think, feel, or respond but trust your gut (not your fear or greed, ask your head a question and your heart a question). GG's statement that the market is a distraction of moving numbers resonates, it looks like the biggest money laundering scheme ever created. What is imagination and what is real? Those things that require multiple senses to experience are real (physical). Rothschild recently stated he was in gold bars and secure (military) government bonds, and I think he knows a thing or two about real wealth.
Where we are and why implosion is possible:
Take a look at this shocking chart, it would appear this metric has led GDP:
http://link.businessinsider.com/view/bir.5gb/480303dc
http://dshort.com/charts/bears/four-bears-large.gif
http://dshort.com/charts/guest/gold-fibonacci-100311.gif
The most valuable commodity of all
"This thing all things devours: Birds, beasts, trees, flowers; Gnaws iron, bites steel; Grinds hard stones to meal; Slays king, ruins town, And beats high mountain down,"
The answer is time, I'm sure Warren Buffett would trade it all to be 20 again. You and your time are more valuable than gold, you can never get one minute of your life back. The richest man in the graveyard (gold or other asset) can't take it with him. How is this relevant to the discussion about gold? Because dear friend, you have traded your labor (time) in exchange for something. The reason people value gold is because they value their time and personal property, and they want to have a sense of control regardless of irresponsible political policies.
It is disrespectful to not honor the contributions of laborers by reducing the value of what they agreed to exchange their labor for ($). That is a violation of the political contract between the government and the people. This is how a republic falls, through high taxes and inflation - it reduces production because of natural behavioral motivation.
Research on happiness shows that marginal increases in happiness are small for increasing incomes over $50k ($50k is enough to make most people "happy"). Enjoy your life, protect what you traded your time for, and focus on real things. On death beds, people rarely talk about their wealth, they talk about their experiences and the people they love. Carlos Slim, now the world's wealthiest man, stated in some ways wealth is a burden and that the more wealth you have, the more you worry about it losing value and what to invest in.
Balance is necessary and obsessing over gold or any other inanimate object, and guarding a gold stash with weapons is a waste of time. Focus on needs including food and shelter. At the same time, leaving wealth in a form that can be easily stolen legally through legaleze contracts and questionable investments is a recipe for disaster and dishonors your parents or their memory, your siblings, your children, and yourself. Your time is meaningful, there is nothing more meaningful.
In short, gold is freedom and debt notes are slavery.
on Fri, 03/12/2010 - 03:42
#263021
AN, thank you.
Your comment was as good as GGs' post.
I'd be very keen to read more of your thoughts, and those of a few other regulars here.
Exonomic Halfbreed has some very interesting thoughts added, way, way further down the comments.
We need to start GETTING REAL, in every sense.
on Fri, 03/12/2010 - 07:51
#263081
+100
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 08:40
#261611
Must be nice to be smarter than John Paulson, George Soros and other who own GLD. They certainly have deeper resources than you and therefore have a more informed edge than you. And in Paulson's case, the credibility to say they called the crisis.
Do you seriously think you know more than these guys? All I read here is stridently expressed opinions.
My money is with the guy plunking down $3 billion on GLD - not the guy with the Michael Douglas avatar.
Sorry.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 09:08
#261638
These guys are leveraged gamblers, with loads of cash to put to work. They couldnt' get $3Bn of "physical" exposure if they tried, I would vouch.
Therefore, paper leverage is the way to go, with a direct bailout guaranteed by the Fed, for "systemic" reasons of course, in the case of failure.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 09:11
#261642
Kinda defeats the argument of GG dontcha think?
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 09:58
#261708
Not if you're not named ONE OF THOSE GUYS. You think they don't hold some physical? Really? You think they are "smarter" than Jim Rickards? Jim Rogers? Marc Faber? Really? Don't confuse greed with intelligence.
on Sat, 03/13/2010 - 13:32
#264403
"You think they are "smarter" than Jim Rickards? Jim Rogers? Marc Faber? Really? "
Unfortunately, I must answer "Yes".
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 20:04
#262599
No it does not.
GG is right: Buy.Gold.Now.
In these awful and weird times, anyone who does not have, say, AT LEAST 3% of his net worth in gold, better yet the 5% - 10% commonly advocated, is unwise. Physical gold only under your own possession.
on Fri, 03/12/2010 - 18:16
#263806
3% ??? You must be kidding, right? Even 5% to 10%... you must be kidding. Beyond what you need for spending money, why hold totally bogus worthless pieces of paper when you can hold real, physical, eternally valuable yellow metal? Those low numbers for gold were invented by stock brokers who, when faced by an investor who ***demanded*** to hold gold, wanted access to at least 95% of his suckers wealth when he couldn't get 100%.
What is the appropriate precentage to have in physical gold today? At least 100%.
on Fri, 03/12/2010 - 21:46
#264015
"What is the appropriate precentage to have in physical gold today? At least 100%."
Really?! That's your MINIMUM? What's your maximum then I wonder?
on Fri, 03/12/2010 - 14:21
#263510
Paulson converted his GLD position into physical.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 09:28
#261667
They will be made whole, or nearly so. You will not!
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 09:42
#261682
David Einhorn sold his GLD stake and bought physical (I forget when). You can expect these guys to switch at a moments notice too - unless they have CB guarantees on the metal - without giving you any advance notice, mentioning it in some obscure corner of some filing long after the s--t has hit the fan.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 10:18
#261740
What about CEF which I believe actually purchase 60% gold and 40% silver?
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 10:59
#261832
From what I've heard, it might be better than GLD, although I can't say for sure. Still doesn't beat personal possession IMHO.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 22:22
#262771
Any take on IAU?
I've actually read the entire prospectus and they do say that the agreement with the custodian is to have no more than 400 ounces unallocated at the end of the day, and any sub-custodians used must have adhere to the same requirements (if I recall, GLD didn't really care what happened with those).
Thanks.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 11:08
#261855
CEF is my only paper holding for my Roth 401K. I believe it will be one of the few paper gold securities to stand up to this coming divergence that GG speaks about.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 11:23
#261887
make sure you have some physical first.. but yes, CEF seems like you can trade as it rises more than the rest.. at least for a while
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 20:25
#262624
What about the Aussie one?
http://www.asx.com.au/products/pdf/etfs_fact_sheet_physical_gold.pdf
http://thelastcanary.blogspot.com
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 17:59
#262452
Hey GG, not to rain on your parade, I like the idea of some phisical...But David Einhorn is the same who bought himself a good chunk of New Century and sat on his board just right before it crashed and burned. J.P. Paulson was on the other side of that trade...I wouldn't quote Einhorn as an unfettered, unblemished genius...in MHO.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 09:51
#261696
Paulson and Soros can effectively control GLD and if there's any shortage they will certainly be paid first. If you're also a billionaire, go ahead.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 11:11
#261864
As has been said before--- Soros is going to do his famous grab onto the last tree branch as he leads all of you stupid little lemmings right off the clif!!
Have fun with that!!
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 11:21
#261885
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA FAG!
I am Chumbawamba.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 11:36
#261917
Show me the guy plunking down 3 billion on gold.
Soros has 487 MILLION, or 1/6, or 16.6% of what you claim.
Less than 2% of his assets...
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 14:21
#262236
Soros dips his balls in gold for fun.
on Sat, 03/13/2010 - 19:46
#264680
that would make golden sacks wouldn't it?
on Sun, 03/14/2010 - 00:38
#264846
HAHAHAHA! I'll set 'em up, you knock 'em down! sheeet.........
on Fri, 03/12/2010 - 06:14
#263053
I've got a great investment tip for you MB. Convert ALL of your holdings to pound sterling, take possession, and stuff them in your mattress.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 11:38
#261924
Do you think Paulson and Soros never made a wrong call?
Do you think they actually do not have any Physical?
I also remind you that most of the heavyweights didn't see our
current crisis coming. let alone the one currently building up.
I have found that the big boys are strictly in the box thinkers,
which has served them well in the past, but no longer works,
because this time, it is different. I also sense that the in the box
thinkers are just now coming to the realization that this time,
it really is different.Gov't RFC on confiscation of retirement funds
has awaken a few that I know... The current budget deficit just can't be ignored, and I fully expect it to increase as the financial load on our welfare state continues to get bigger. I see no sign
of Congress becoming fiscally responsible, none at all....
Congress is spending like Drunken Sailors.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 12:05
#261994
So, have you decided to ignore the first part of the essay regarding banking and Treasuries?
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 12:47
#262120
Anon-
Do you really think Sorros and J Paulson arent on Geithners speed-dial list?
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 18:14
#262470
Do you honestly think these parties don't have physical too? If they have 30% physical and 70% paper gold, and they lose all their paper in the rise, they're still going to do VERY well. Also, note that through the manipulation of paper, they can ensure physical rises to the moon. You're right, they aren't dumb. They have strategies you've not thought of.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 20:58
#262660
Do not equate wealth with intelligence, if that were the case the Australian Aborigine and the Canadian Inuit would be the smartest races on earth. While I am definitely not insulting their intelligence by any means, they do not stick out with their per capita intelligence as much as they do with their per capita wealth
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 21:12
#262677
Do not equate wealth with intelligence, if that were the case the Australian Aborigine and the Canadian Inuit would be the smartest races on earth. While I am definitely not insulting their intelligence by any means, they do not stick out with their per capita intelligence as much as they do with their per capita wealth
on Fri, 03/12/2010 - 01:16
#262944
And do you not think Soros and all are not going to jump off the train when it heads off the cliff? They'll ride this thing to the very end. Put two and two together, you see. Soros thinks gold is in bubble state, and goes in feet first-why would he? Aha, there is much to gain while the train is a movin and you know when to jump off...
on Sun, 03/14/2010 - 09:45
#264993
Soros never said gold was in a bubble, he said gold is the Ultimate Bubble.
ul·ti·mate
1.
last; furthest or farthest; ending a process or series: the ultimate point in a journey; the ultimate style in hats.
2.
maximum; decisive; conclusive: the ultimate authority; the ultimate weapon.
3.
highest; not subsidiary: ultimate goal in life.
4.
basic; fundamental; representing a limit beyond which further progress, as in investigation or analysis, is impossible: the ultimate particle; ultimate principles.
5.
final; total: the ultimate consequences; the ultimate cost of a project.
6.
not to be improved upon or surpassed; greatest; unsurpassed: the ultimate vacation spot; the ultimate stupidity.
In lizard speak, he's saying the same thing as GG/AN/FOFOA.
on Sun, 03/14/2010 - 12:32
#265055
Crowd stands and applauds.
Won der ful catch Anon.
on Fri, 03/12/2010 - 02:45
#262999
Mr. Paulson owns more GLD than is required to have "a basket" (from the GLD prospectus). Owning a basket or several baskets allows MR Paulson to convert his "baskets to the real gold in the GLD warehouse. Do you own enough GLD to convert to real gold? If you don't then perhaps you might want to consider the tip of John Exeter's pyramid. The less counterparty risk in this time might be a better choice.
PTAUAG
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 08:43
#261612
If paper precious metals are at such risk, why do we read here at Zero Hedge about Paulson and Soros (among other "astute" investors) being long GLD?
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 08:52
#261620
Do you have a direct line to the Fed? Din't think so. And just because you see people at ZH saying something doesn't mean you should follow it blindly without doing due diligence.
on Fri, 03/12/2010 - 01:19
#262948
Good Point!
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 08:59
#261625
Because if the paper failed,
They are connected enough to get bailed,
While we the public are black-mailed,
Until we grow a set of balls and get the crooks jailed,
Before they arrive at their private island on their yacht having sailed,
All the while leaving our nation failed.
It's almost the weekend.......
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 15:26
#262259
Your failed nation will still have a shitload of rather lethal weapons.
Do you really think their islands will be equipped with anti-missile defenses?
Or that you won't be able to find them?
Just saying.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 17:13
#262384
I'm of the opinion that yes, their islands will in fact be equipped with anti-missile defenses, of one sort or another.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 18:38
#262507
What's the endgame? Do they inbreed on these islands? Do they just die out after x years?
on Fri, 03/12/2010 - 19:27
#263877
Are you implying that inbreeding would be new to them?
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 18:43
#262517
yep, a whole lot of people will become lead farmers.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 09:47
#261688
because a lot of times, a poker player never lets you know what he is holding. these men probably have been accumulating pm for a very long time. they don't go around broadcasting that fact because they derive their sustainence from the very system they are helping to bring down.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 08:50
#261617
Good post. That EverBank item is definitely eerie. Gold is dropping right now as we speak, but I expect some folks to be selling stuff (any stuff) to cover. They ain't been schooled better not to sell their gold!
Keep the Gold
Let the rest implode!
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 08:53
#261622
Thanks for your kind words MsCreant. Remember don't look at the paper price and keep buying the physical!
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 12:58
#262136
Same sentiments here... I don't always agree with your positions, GG, but this is very good work indeed.
You certainly provide a whole lot of food for thought... and it's much appreciated!
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 13:16
#262155
GG - I agree with most of your points, any thoughts on silver? SLV? I understand that the same "game" is played there as well.
on Fri, 03/12/2010 - 00:18
#262880
JPM administers slv, need I say more?
on Sun, 03/14/2010 - 12:35
#265057
ishares silver trust a la Barclays; Barclays is the last remaining Bank officially owned by the deRotheschildes. Warren Buffett (worlds biggest pawn) bought 90% of the silver off of COMEX in the early 2000s then turned and sold it directly to Barclays. JPM does do their bidding.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 09:28
#261665
I agree MsC, paper gold sellers are wallpapering their asses with legalese. Not a confidence-producing development, is it?
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 20:13
#262608
Ah, good. We have most of our friends (pro-gold) and our friends who do not like it (MB).
Carry on the conversation!
But, I will buy MORE gold when I get back to the USA.
Gold is a bargain, IMO, at under $1500. Physical possession only. I will take the other precious metals (silver and platinum as well), but the bulk of new income for em is for GOLD!
fofoa.blogspot.com is a mine full of information on the surprising roles of gold now and through time.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 08:50
#261618
Hyperinflation, here it comes?!
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 08:53
#261621
Gold bugs to lose their jobs and puke gold for cash on the low in 3... 2... 1...
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 09:23
#261656
http://www.catsforgold.com/
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 10:37
#261782
LMAO
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 11:04
#261843
Litter for glitter! That's awesome.
I've been shredding my fiatscos for my catbox anyway.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 09:25
#261658
Got it covered, pal. I anticipate a forced sag to force the little guy to liquidate anything of value just to stay alive, and THEN we get a currency explosion. Net result? No job, no assets, and everything we need costs more than we can afford. A perfect setup for implementing a new totalitarian state.
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/hand-hand-combat-options-pits#comment-2...
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 10:54
#261822
The current price is ANYTHING but a low.
My personal cost basis is about $800 for gold, and $13 for silver (including premiums). Lots of people have a much better basis.
Also, 99% of those who lose their jobs own NO gold. Just do like they do and get unemployment compensation. I, for one, will never sell my gold or silver for dollars. Instead, I plan to SPEND IT once it becomes money again, and gains that huge monetary premium. Barring that, I will take it and flee the country, and trade it for a strong local currency AS I NEED IT.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 20:16
#262614
Plus 93 (foreign keyboards...)
I plan to quietly give it away in the future. Quietly.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 08:58
#261624
Can anyone offer their opinion on the safety of CEF, the big gold fund in Canada? (I switched to it from GLD last year because of the fears expressed in this article.) TKS!
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 09:51
#261697
Check the website of Jesse's Cafe Americain - I believe he follows the Canadian fund options.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 19:14
#262550
@ Anonymous:
CEF is far safer and far superior to GLD or SLV; all of the investment banks on Wall St. are experts at fraudulent activity. At least the custodians of CEF are not also short-sellers of either metal.
GLD & SLV are Fractional Reserve Frauds:
Most people do not realize that the biggest shorts of these paper gold and paper silver ETFs are the custodians of these ETFs!!!
Custodian of the SLV ETF: JP Morgan
JPM is currently holding approx. 300 million oz of "net" short silver on the COMEX. Additionally, they hold approx. 70% of the paper gold shorts! A pure conflict of interest here; yet it has US government approval, because our government wants the price of gold and silver to be depressed (so that money which leaves the stock market will flow into bonds, instead of into gold & silver, which are the true Safe Havens).
Custodian of the GLD ETF: HSBC
HSBC has the second largest short positions in silver, and is one of the leading shorts in paper gold. Another pure conflict of interest here; yet is also has government approval.
Bottom Line:
These facts alone should constitute "ample warning" for the astute investor.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 20:35
#262638
My understanding if CEF is 100% (or very, very close) physical, is not traded or leased (very important).
It is 100% unencumbered ! Just site there, in vaults. Just the way I like it !
I have half my net worth in gold of which 1/2 is physical (in my possession), 1/4 is CEF and 1/4 is levered ETF.
When gold takes off the ETF goes first, then CEF. I hold the physical until the "endgame" plays out.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 22:08
#262763
The only concern I have with CEF is that from time to time they do additional share offerings. I have not tracked it for a while though. It may be of no concern but it is noteworthy.
on Fri, 03/12/2010 - 00:15
#262878
They only offer new shares when the share price trades at a premium to net asset value, ensuring no dilution of existing shareholders.
They do this to reduce their overall operating expenses by increasing their total metal holdings:
http://www.centralfund.com/pressrel_files/2009/CFOC%20PR%20-%20Closing%20%20-%2017%20Nov%2009.pdf
The underwritten price of U.S.$13.56 per Class A Share was non-dilutive and accretive for the existing Shareholders
of Central Fund. Substantially all of the net proceeds of the offering have been invested in gold and silver bullion in
international banker bar denominations, in keeping with the asset allocation requirements in the constating documents
of Central Fund and the policies established by the Board of Directors of Central Fund, with the balance of the net
proceeds reserved for working capital purposes. The additional capital raised by this underwriting is expected to
assist in reducing the annual expense ratio in favour of the Shareholders of Central Fund.
NB. I have around 33% of my net worth in gold, and a third of it physical and 2\3rds of it in Central Fund. The fund was founded in 1961. The founder is a gold bug.
on Fri, 03/12/2010 - 06:22
#263055
I thought HSBC was the primary gold shorter?
JPM is definitely known for fucking with the silver markets, but I haven't heard about them being deep into gold.
on Fri, 03/12/2010 - 13:18
#263425
Sprott also has a new fund that would be worthy of a look. Also, Goldmoney.com should be an option as well.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 20:36
#262640
http://www.centralfund.com
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 21:42
#262730
However, I believe that CEF does not offer the option of taking delivery. Also you must purchase through a broker, not directly from them. In a crisis, your broker and thus you may have a problem, therefore, I decided to withdraw from CEF, not because of their integrity, but because of these possible problems. Please correct me if Im mistaken.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 22:09
#262764
Keep away from all paper.
Buy physical.
If you want some paper gold for future leverage, buy it later, when the price of paper gold drops. Same $$ will probably get you many more shares then than now.
GGs' metaphor of picking up pennies in front of a steamroller seems bloody accurate to me.
I ditched all my paper a few weeks back, and bought more physical. I may buy a small dollar value of favourite mining stock back if/when they dip with paper gold, but only a small value, and only for shits n giggles. May pay off; if not, who cares? Got plenty of the real deal while it was being given away. ;)
on Fri, 03/12/2010 - 01:30
#262952
CEF is Silver and gold.
Look int 'PHYS'. It is Eric Sprott's 100% allocated gold bullion option. YOU CAN EVEN TAKE DELIVERY if you like - of a 100(?) oz bar.
Maybe you can trust this guy when it comes to gold. Do your own homework though.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 09:00
#261627
I could not agree more with the financial implosion thing.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 11:27
#261895
OK, the whole system comes crashing down, now what? Do you really think TPTB will sit back and let a few "hoarders" control wealth in the form of physical gold? Hell no, they will either outlaw it or tax the transactions to make widespread use meaningless. And if we ever get to true Mad Max territory, the people with guns will simply kill you and steal your food and gold.
In-duh-vidual investors are being gamed big time. The only wealth we can really count on anymore is the knowledge between our ears, or for some, the slippery spot between their legs. Everything else is subject to confiscation or loss.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 17:06
#262379
A) Laws only keep the honest people honest.
B) There is alsways silver...in legal tender form.
C) Zombies want brains, not gold
D) Many people investing in physical AG/AU are also the type to invest in brass/lead
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 18:42
#262513
Based on your screed, I can tell which one you're counting on...
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 19:28
#262563
the middle one?
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 09:04
#261632
AWSOME post Gordon, really fantastic. I just bought more gold eagles, and cleared my bofa bank account, TAKE OUT your cash and hide it NOW.
LBMA and crimex are gonna blow up very soon.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 09:04
#261633
At $1,100+ per ounce, I am too poor to buy gold. Could I buy silver or palladium to protect against a dollar meltdown?
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 10:43
#261798
Gold is divisible. You are not thinking about this very well.
Anyway, silver is good too.
Palladium seems like a bet on future production of catalytic converters. It's a specialty item.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 18:52
#262528
you can buy 1 gram bars (1/31 of a troy ounce).
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 23:37
#262846
If you can't afford gold, buy silver. Go to Americangoldeneagle.com and buy some Mercury dimes.
on Fri, 03/12/2010 - 00:38
#262904
I prefer silver, for lots of reasons. Yes, silver will protect you during hyperinflation, and is a better metal if TSHTF. Silver will become comparatively scarcer than gold over the next 30 years, and stands to gain if the economy improves. And silver costs are low enough that they are approachable. You can buy a few ounces here and there. Use Apmex.
on Fri, 03/12/2010 - 06:54
#263060
+31.1034768
Agreed. HOWEVER, if you can buy both then you should, IMO.
Gold's primary role is a store of wealth and it does it better than silver in that it is less volatile. So if you're looking for highly portable wealth storage, gold it is (unless you're Master Bates, then Negotiable Greek Bonds are the way to go).
But I do like silver. It's fundamentals are sound for a long-term investment. The downside risk is if a huge reserve is discovered. If so, then it's value industrially will stagnate and gold will win out as the wealth storage vehicle.
What's nice about Ag, silver, Argentum, is that it's denomination is small. If you need to use PMs for transactions, then Ag is a nice way to go. IF the geological data regarding Argentum holds (i.e. no massive reserve discoveries, China's not lying about it's holdings, ect) then silver could skyrocket due to re-pricing once the manipulation is broken.
Of course, on a day-to-day investment schedule, other downsides are the nerve-wrecking volatility and the possibility of global industrial decline.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 09:07
#261635
So, any PRACTICAL advise on how to own and store physical gold, in my personal possession? Out here in the boonies of upstate NY there is no local "gold store", only a stock broker in the village. Do folks actualy ship the stuff UPS or US mail??
Should i bury it out back? I guess safe deposit boxes are NG?
But, I think it would be better to own a farm.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 09:53
#261700
You can buy from a dozen or more mail-order places, which ship via USPS or FedEx, often included in the sale price. There have been various options posted. FWIW, the more a place advertises, the less likely you want to buy from them.
For storage you will have to decide for yourself. But you might start by researching "TL-30 safe" to get one set of ideas. Obviously safety deposit boxes are an option, but if things start collapsing, or if government steps in, the contents may be gone forever.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 10:18
#261739
The two places I have bought from are APMEX and Tulving. Both are good, and if you are looking at big buys Tulving is the place for you, fast and great prices. Do some research and read some reviews the info for dealers is out here and go with reputable companies.
As for hiding a good safe is great. But even without an estate it is possible to hide. Think about where you would hide a silver dollar or roll of silver dollars where a thief would not look or would miss it. And for the love of God do not tell people where you are stashing your gold!
A farm might be nice but I happen to be in the camp that thinks Uncle Sugar and his Local Underlings will seize land via outrageous property taxes. Having a farm might be nice but if you got to move in a hurry you can carry your gold with you.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 10:45
#261803
Very pessimistic, though not necessarily unrealistic. Seems like an absolute guarantee for civil war and famine though. Farming requires so much expertise and there is very little of it left. Look at the sad history of Rhodesia/Zimbabwe for the natural outcome of land grabs.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 11:20
#261880
Completely agree, will lead to unrest in the farmers and future starvation. But here is my rational. You will have a mass of hunger people in the cities, the vast majority. The farmers will not want to sell them food because we will have price controls or simply the people will not be able to afford the market rate for food. The gov has options. It can let the majority starve, leading to mass unrest. It can seize the crops and probably the land while they are at it. OR they can pass special taxes on the land to make it not a taking under the Constitution so it would be legal to seize the land and the crops for "back taxes" and not qualify as a taking since they failed to pay taxes.
Now with our looter government which is willing to burn the house to stay warm I know that they will do the most politically expedient thing that will also line their pockets. You will never lose betting on that, it's like betting on whether the sun will rise or not, it's a certainty, assuming there is a collapse.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 11:52
#261961
I wouldn't be surprised by your scenario Shameful, but I don't think the government could handle a war that large.Not only are the farmers
well armed themselves, but the surrounding communities they service
are also well armed and often loyal...
And even though the locals may not have money, they can and do barter. We currently barter with our poor customers. (one cooks for us, for instance)
And the current attitude of the Farmers is already very pissed off,
especially the under a thousand acres type farmer...
Extremely pissed off actually...
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 12:08
#262000
No offense but what will farmers do against Striker combat vehicles and attack helicopters? And of course the media will film it and cast the farmers who are protecting what is theirs as the villains "See those evil farmers are trying to hoard that food so you and your children can't eat!"
Seizing farms and crops would require less forces then trying to suppress the cities, no way they could keep the cities quite without food and they would melt down. And like I said I expect it through taxation first, so those who do not hand it over will be criminals in the eyes of the court as well as having public opinion against them. After all the fat unprepared masses will not want ot be deprived of food. Further spin can be made of "Well we are only going after the big farmers" and have the taxes on plots over 20 acres. Most city dwellers will marvel at how big 20 acres is and not realize how small it really is for a farm. Remember to feed these cities we need an elaborate supply and distribution system. A city dweller would be in now way able to negotiate with a rural farmer directly without a transport system and so barter would largely be off the table without having to pass through intermediaries.
Also by the Gov seizing the food and farmland they become the arbiter of who eats and who starves. I'm in no way wanting this to happen, I'm disgusted by what I know the Gov is capable of. I have distant relations who are rural fruit farmers who have even refused gov handouts because they want to make it on their own. But in the end the Gov will do what is good for the Gov and will change laws to make it legal, or at least give it the air of legitimacy.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 12:20
#262036
In Rhodesia when the farms were seized the farm owners went and practiced their golf swing rather than cultivate crops. The farmers aren't going to work for free.
on Sat, 03/13/2010 - 19:59
#264683
My sister-in-law's parents had 20,000 acres of ranchland in Rhodesia...they lost it all.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 12:51
#262127
I just don't think they will have the resources to pull it off.
Too much is overseas, permanetly.The country will need to
confiscate gold, like the Nazis did, to field an army..
Which presents yet another problem
And I don't know a single Marine who would fire on his own people.
(BTW, in your scenario, which I would not disregard, a Military coup
would become a distinct possibility)
Certainly there would be no defense against a direct air attack...
But it was essentially farmers that beat the British, appalachian farmers. They may be called on one more time!
You are correct though, government are capable of ruthless behaviour, always have been...
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 13:17
#262157
Hope I am wrong!
But you would be surprised what propaganda can do. You start beating the drum of White Al-Quida and that these farmers are helping terrorists then you might get a few marines to do it. Have a few incidents where these people attack and shoot marines and then maybe a few more marines would be on board(whether real or stated). What about mercenaries? Can always bring in contractors who might have less then pristine moral code. They are simply not going ot order marines to murder Americans outright, they would finesse it a little. And of course it would start with the cops and IRS trying to seize it and then the mil would be brought in when the others were killed or repulsed. And God knows the CIA is more then willing to use drones on innocent civilians, and there is no defense that people have against that.
"We have to go in men, they have been killing Federal agents! We think they are terrorists and secessionists. Now I know you won't want to shoot Americans but we need this food to feed Americans, and the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few!"
on Fri, 03/12/2010 - 01:42
#262959
You obviously haven't heard of the Milgram experiment which proved that given the right circumstances that the vast majority of people will kill their fellow countrymen. This is not the only experiment that proves this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment
Milgram summarized the experiment in his 1974 article, "The Perils of Obedience", writing:
The legal and philosophic aspects of obedience are of enormous importance, but they say very little about how most people behave in concrete situations. I set up a simple experiment at Yale University to test how much pain an ordinary citizen would inflict on another person simply because he was ordered to by an experimental scientist. Stark authority was pitted against the subjects' [participants'] strongest moral imperatives against hurting others, and, with the subjects' [participants'] ears ringing with the screams of the victims, authority won more often than not. The extreme willingness of adults to go to almost any lengths on the command of an authority constitutes the chief finding of the study and the fact most urgently demanding explanation.
Ordinary people, simply doing their jobs, and without any particular hostility on their part, can become agents in a terrible destructive process. Moreover, even when the destructive effects of their work become patently clear, and they are asked to carry out actions incompatible with fundamental standards of morality, relatively few people have the resources needed to resist authority.[3]
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 17:12
#262383
Well the Afghan poppy farmers mine their fields, kill Marines and all kinds of terrible things.
Farmers aroung here all have scoped 30-06s ... some are very good with them.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 19:00
#262538
And when you approach those farmers with 30.06 rifles to trade for food, don't bring your TD Ameritrade statement showing 1,000 shares of GLD.
Stock up on your basics first: water, food, first aid and weapons. Then buy your gold and silver (I still think brass and lead will outperform).
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 21:03
#262663
I think you have that assbackwards. Trying to seize the farms (at least in the South) would be a mistake of such epic proportions, you cannot imagine. If you've never been, take a stroll through a southern gun show and see what the locals are arming themselves with. Anyone who's never been will most likely be shocked. And with regards to taking over the land, unless the govt is willing to risk the lives of many thousands of soldiers, many of whom will most likely be less than thrilled at the prospect of killing their own friends and families, the success of any such action would be marginal.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 12:22
#262049
Shameful, the scenario you lay out is horrible, yet plausible since variations of it have played out many times in recent and older history. Disturbing.
I would however agree 100% with Hulk on every aspect, and I would add that the armored vehicles you refer to are surprisingly vulnerable to people who have various common items, all of them perfectly legal at present, and know a thing or two. And I would further add that a lot of the 20-somethings in rural areas did a stint in the military, especially in infantry or armor.
Further, it doesn't require any war for this to be a calamity. All it requires is for the farmers to stop producing at maximum levels and instead focus on feeding themselves and trying to keep their farms. That alone could starve much of the population.
Finally, I highly recommend Tom Baugh's book Starving the Monkeys.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 12:44
#262109
History repeats itself because we are people, and as humanity we really don't change much "This time is different, I mean it!"
I have no doubt that these vehicles have vulnerabilities to cunning individuals. The Styker vehicle has the armered cage on it because people in the field found that RPGs did naughty things to them IIRC.
The problem with destroying the vehicles is a pile of dead troops and burning ruined armored vehicles makes for great propaganda for the city dwellers. This "conflict" would be a war for hearts and minds as much as anything else, and the property owners are on the wrong end of the stick.
Doubtlessly the farmers would not produce or lower production, and this would tip the hunger scales. I think history might end up laughing at us. Much of America is fat or obese, and many on diets. Fate may deliver us a harsh diet, and perhaps those in the future will find it humorous that the fattest nation in Earth's history could endure a food crisis.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 12:44
#262108
"The farmers will not want to sell them food because we will have price controls or simply the people will not be able to afford the market rate for food."
This played out in Weimar Germany. Many farmers simply said "Piss off, we don't need your worthless paper money, we're self-sufficient here." In response to the growing rebellion among farmers, the government passed anti-hoarding laws that forced farmers to sell their crops and livestock at controlled prices, or face confiscation and jail.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 13:12
#262146
whoa this is the most informative thread i have read, thanks. thanks for opening up how, where and can ideas. i was going to buy a bar but now think coins make more sense. shameful, you seem to be down with our rights and wonder what you think about our vulnerabilities owning a winery and having the federal government alcohol licensing and powerful scrutiny they have over us. they know the combinations of our locks and can make a random visit 24/7. they could just shut us down and take all contents. could they? phuck yes probably, wineries would be the first so give all the wine to the military. it's a tough business to be in run by the feds.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 13:29
#262171
I honestly don't know much about the winery biz and have not researched it. I looked into farming because of family and my parents thought about buying a parcel of land.
My get tells me that they would not seize it but they might price control you or control your distribution. If things do start going bad they will do their damnedest to keep booze flowing to keep at least some of the people distracted. So I think you would have business but like I said my instruct is they might try to force you into a price control scheme or possibly sell directly to them for distribution. The problem is with a totally criminal government there is not much you can do. They can even effectively nullify Constitutional clauses with cunning use of laws, like my example of property/farms taken by taking instead of an outright taking. Or it might end up a odd situation where you can bride the inspector to keep some of it aside or not sell at price controls. And I see price and wage controls in the future. We saw it in the 70s and the 30s I see no reason why they will not try it again.
When you have a load of crooks and looters running the show the process is for them to consolidate property and assets among themselves and the politically connected and away from the true owners and the producers. Owning real producing assets will get harder and harder in the US because taxes will go up and all levels of the Gov, Fed, State, Local. All get more viscous with their taxes and fees as they scramble to get money to keep their beaks wet. As a business person if you are doing well you might want to move a portion of your wealth overseas and possibly look at what are the steps to establish a getaway if things get to hot for you. I'm not saying run for the hills, but can't hurt to know what the lay of the land is, and having assets overseas would be nice if you got robbed here.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 14:02
#262194
thanks shame. i do have a lot of US$, don't know what to do. i asked my cousin about his swiss bank account and he said after 20 yrs @ banking institution he received the “madoff” (he called it) to come and get his millions and take them home. so he told me the privacy laws are killing us with a little ¢'s. i went all cash in fall 08, phuck that sucks money is huge cause it only comes in $100 bills. i heard their is a reason that the gov stopped $500.bills, lot easier to hoard less bulk.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 14:18
#262224
Cash will rot in the long term. We should have deflation but the Fed Reserve will fight it with every fiber of their being. If he has to Zimbabwe Ben will drop it out of helicopters to get inflation.
If you have big money and are in the winery biz maybe look at NZ? I know they have some winery stuff there and you can effectively buy a way into the country. NZ might now be perfect but it will likely be better then a lot of places even though I hear they still have a bit of a property bubble. But in truth I think the US will end up with 3rd world status, a banana republic with nukes. I cannot accurately project what people will do when they wake up paupers but odds are we will at the very least see an increase of crime here, and additional corruption on all levels of government. I know I'm looking at exits because this will not be the land of opportunity soon and will not return to being hte land of opportunity till we get the oligarchs off of us.
I would definitely get out of cash and own tangible things though. If it is foreign property/land/assets or coins. I think we going into a time where a lot of people will lose fortunes and those who can preserve them will end up ahead of the game. Those who hoard cash will get killed. Look at the lose of purchasing power of the past decade, it's not likely to get any better with all money printing and there is a big risk of a downside of paper money rapidly losing value, especially if the world rejects the dollars reserve status.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 18:31
#262494
Cash will rot in the long term.
The Loonie (and some others?) are soon to be plasticized...
Four options for one's life:
1) Work for the empire;
2) Farm, and be subject to the dictates of the empire (but at least you're assured of food, plus, it's a morally good labor- remember that the meek shall inherit the earth);
3) Be a renegade/survivalist type (a life on the run);
4) Be one of the swarms in cities, hoping that food comes.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 22:55
#262807
Wineries here in NZ going bust; too much capacity, too little demand.
Contracts not being renewed. Only the big players looking OK at this time.
Maybe get in cheap on distressed assets currently if you got the bucks.
Most here live in a bubble full of green shoots though, so they wouldn't know a good offer if it bit them on the ass.
on Fri, 03/12/2010 - 00:43
#262905
supplement your production, with grape juice, and table grapes, maybe research raisin production. put together a backup solar power system. get a pot belly stove. electric golf cart, and lots of tools. don't worry about the government, it can't take care of itself, but you can. if they make a move, you will be limited, in your options.be smart, better to give up 30% of your stuff, than to have 70% taken.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 15:47
#262278
The other problem with holding physical cash is that anyone who has more than a couple hundred in cash at home is basically presumed to be a drug dealer or other heinous criminal, so if the police can find any reason to get into your house, it will all be confiscated and you will experience the farcical theft game referred to as forfeiture hearings. Obviously save all your bank transaction receipts to try and prove lawful ownership in case of this eventuality.
On the other hand, if you don't have cash at home, you are totally screwed whenever the ATMs stop working and we have that sexy sounding "bank holiday."
Damned if you do, damned if you don't, etc.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 16:29
#262332
"anyone who has more than a couple hundred in cash at home is basically presumed to be a drug dealer or other heinous criminal" Look that is not true. If you don't know what you are talking about, don't.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 18:38
#262506
You're not understanding the discussion here...
It's a future tense thing. And, consider:
People are currently being primed to believe that folks are hauling off lots of cash. There will be social pressures/stigmas (thanks to a misguided "populist" campaign) such that people will demand that those "hoarding" money are committing acts against the welfare of the people. Lots of plausibility here. We all pretty much feel that way about the BIG boys; they will escape, but the residual resentment will be programmed in for future control of regular folks...
We've come to this point because of social associations. Unless you're the Mountain Man*, social grouping is the only thing that's going to save your butt in the future. * Nothing against these folks, my hat is off to them, but it's just not a viable solution for more than just a few of them.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 19:15
#262552
?
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 19:22
#262559
I understand the discussion perfectly
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 22:38
#262787
Bang on! Social grouping is exactly what people would gravitate towards, whether it be along racial; religious or political grounds, and with that would come the scapegoats and the militia tyrants.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 22:39
#262788
Bang on! Social grouping is exactly what people would gravitate towards, whether it be along racial; religious or political grounds, and with that would come the scapegoats and the militia tyrants.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 19:22
#262557
Keep your best bottles behind the others. Keep buying great wine. There are far fewer fluid ounces of burgundy than troy ounces of gold, and that ratio will never change.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 12:22
#262046
Never, ever underestimate the stupidity of the people in power.
Everything they believe is bullshit.
I mean, look at the liberal agenda or the "conservative" one, for that matter...look at the things these talking idiots say. Look at what they believe. They exist in a state of cognitively dissonanced delusion.
Some "economist" will say that they should tax land more to get more stimulus or something. This is actually how Rome ended up paving the way to the feudal dark ages...raise those taxes, debase the currency. The lesser-wealthed had to sell themselves into serfdom to be protected from the land taxes. The policies of the empire destroyed all the weaker hands until you ended up with massive feudal duchies.
It's very clear when you argue with a liberal or conservative that you get an internally irreconcilable DOGMA. They believe things with every fiber which are very obviously and provably bullshit. Gun control or military policy, Patriot Act, Deficits don't matter, and on and on
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 23:01
#262814
"They exist in a state of cognitively dissonanced delusion."
Succinct.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 17:20
#262393
"Farming requires so much expertise."
Currently, perhaps. Plants did in fact grow on their own before we got here
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 18:41
#262512
Unfortunately that would the be hunter-gatherer era. Not possible with the numbers of people today (one reason why TPTB see the train wreck dead ahead- their food system is collapsing).
on Fri, 03/12/2010 - 19:10
#263861
Clearly you have never farmed. Clearly you have never
worked tractors over 45hp, gang-plows, cultivators, mower
conditioners, balers, combine harvesters, drillers and
every other kind of mechanized piece of equipment to farm
on a scale that can provide ALL the food for a family,
let alone a community. What do you think, that we will
have 302 million hunter-gatherers? Hell 40% are too fat
to hunt or gather without a 4 Wheeler!
Quite bluntly, you have no clue given the ignorance of such
a statement. Where will you get all your seed products,
your fertilizer, lime, herbicides etc?
Real farming requires a mind-boggling level of expertise
and ability plow, plant and harvest at optimal times to
insure an adequate harvest. Oh and you will need around
a minimum of $100k to just buy enough equipment, seed,
fertilizer, diesel and spare parts to even begin farming on a bare level to provide ALL the food for just a few families.
While this entire thread has been a good review of one
possible (and very sad) fall along a chaos continuum,
farming expertise AND the land, will be one of the most valuable assets. Since only 3% of our population are
farmers providing most of our foods, expertise to step
in for pissed off farmers will be very limited. This is
not the Depression when 37% of the population farmed.
Best not to complain about farmers with your mouth full,
let alone when you do not have enough to eat.
on Sun, 03/14/2010 - 13:19
#265081
Where you getting that gas?
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 10:22
#261745
I buy from American Gold Eagle. Reasonable prices. They make money, but aren't nearly as bad as Gold Line, for example.
Put the stash into a coffee can and bury it. Nobody will ever find it.
I probably have more silver than I need, and not enough gold, but I'm satisfied.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 11:37
#261922
I just bought a gold bar today.. I was just in silver but what they hell.. add some color to the pile!
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 11:31
#261904
There are gold sellers that will ship through UPS or US mail, yes.
Bury it out back: not necessarily.
Owning a farm could also be interesting.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 12:23
#262052
get with united precious metal refiners in albany.
great prices on 10 oz jewelry 9999 gold bars.
i'm in florida, you can drive there,lucky!
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 13:20
#262137
No safe deposit boxes! I expect bank runs and even if you can get to the bank, that will be the least likely "safe" place to be. The Feds might outlaw physical gold like they did in the 30's and get to your box before you do.
You need to find a creative nook someone on your property, to hide stash that you can defend, if required. Purchase and know how to safely use a hand gun or shotgun. (Being in NY, that means a long gun for you.) Buy that first and use your soon to be worthless cash. You will also need to have some cash on hand, in anticipation of bank closings...a la bank "holidays" from the 1930's. You are right to be thinking about growing some of your own food. Just do it! It is easy to have a big yielding garden but you must plan for preserving your bounty over the winter months. (Solar food dryer...google it) Get into survival mode. Even if we don't get into a total meltdown, nothing here will hurt. If we do, you get to survive a little longer than your friends and family.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 22:32
#262779
Right! In the joint, when we needed to get our shanks out to the yard, we'd "keister" them. Just sayin . . . "
;-
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 17:14
#262388
First 2 rules of Fight Club...
on Fri, 03/12/2010 - 19:32
#263882
8 Rules of Fight Club:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agi8PUmlAKU
on Fri, 03/12/2010 - 06:55
#263062
Bank of Folgers. Develop your gold thumb and learn about midnight gardening.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 09:07
#261636
Good piece GG - I may decide to blow the rest of my paper on a long holiday in France and Italy and enjoy whats left of civilisation while it is still civilised.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 09:09
#261639
Anyone have thoughts on the precious metal stocks? What will happen to the Newmonts, Goldcorps, Iamgolds, etc, of the PM World? If the rest of the equities tank, will the gold stocks go with them? Seems logical, Captain…
Or, once everything tanks, will the Gold Stocks be the "last man standing", whilst the flood to physical gold reaches biblical proportions, and the miners reap the whirlwind of huge share price increases on the back of the physical explosion?
Thoughts?
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 09:19
#261651
"Or, once everything tanks, will the Gold Stocks be the "last man standing", whilst the flood to physical gold reaches biblical proportions, and the miners reap the whirlwind of huge share price increases on the back of the physical explosion?
Thoughts?"
Pretty much the way I see it playing out.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 09:51
#261698
Baldy:
I think you answered your own question. Everything truly tied (not paper gold) to the value of physical gold will follow the price.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 10:16
#261737
If GG's predictions are correct, then all gold mines risk being nationalized for the "greater good" or "national security" or "economic stability" or whatever. Nationalization=syndicate theft.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 10:27
#261754
BINGO!
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 13:20
#262161
Own foreign miners, and spread out as much as possible. I like Canada and China myself, but I own some in Oz, and other places. I only own one domestic miner, and it will be the first thing I sell if I smell anything fishy.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 10:23
#261748
Gold stocks might be good but keep 3 things in mind.
1. Many of these gold producers have forward sold production so price increases will not help them, indeed rising paper costs of goods and services but having them locked into a price could bankrupt them.
2. Not all miners have good properties and might be overvalued. Have to do your homework.
3. Your brokerage firm holds the shares not you. If prices go nutty then you might see weird legal chicanery as teh system breaks down. Where their might be a computer "error" and your stock is sold. We are going into a place were it will be a wild ride anything can happen.
Not saying it's a bad investment, but it has risks and you need to do your homework on the companies.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 13:32
#262177
no i bought $20,000 worth of junior miner stocks not in africa, south america and canada, in spring 08. boom, penny stocks by fall 08. they are so thinly traded i heard so very difficult for share price to raise. never buy into miner stocks.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 16:59
#262373
buy the miners that have not forward sold
take delivery of shares
a share will be valued at gold in the ground ,
an instrument redeemable any where in the world .a gold backed piece of paper
all the what ifs. . most have done nothing ,, and even over the last ten years evidence of this happining has been ignored , gold wouda coulda shoulda been bought at 300,, silver at 4.00 plus
now we have the late to the party people giving their two bit opinions, and the left handed hand movers giving advice with zero understanding ,,
and mostly merkin like ,, dream in circles of muck
on Fri, 03/12/2010 - 00:52
#262913
http://www.pdegraaf.com/
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 16:59
#262374
buy the miners that have not forward sold
take delivery of shares
a share will be valued at gold in the ground ,
an instrument redeemable any where in the world .a gold backed piece of paper
all the what ifs. . most have done nothing ,, and even over the last ten years evidence of this happining has been ignored , gold wouda coulda shoulda been bought at 300,, silver at 4.00 plus
now we have the late to the party people giving their two bit opinions, and the left handed hand movers giving advice with zero understanding ,,
and mostly merkin like ,, dream in circles of muck
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 16:59
#262375
buy the miners that have not forward sold
take delivery of shares
a share will be valued at gold in the ground ,
an instrument redeemable any where in the world .a gold backed piece of paper
all the what ifs. . most have done nothing ,, and even over the last ten years evidence of this happining has been ignored , gold wouda coulda shoulda been bought at 300,, silver at 4.00 plus
now we have the late to the party people giving their two bit opinions, and the left handed hand movers giving advice with zero understanding ,,
and mostly merkin like ,, dream in circles of muck
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 09:15
#261644
Good post thanks Gordon... I've been thinking recently that I'll bury some metal on the family lot, late at night, where no one sees me. You never know what the government will do in its death throes. NO ONE gets my metal.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 09:26
#261660
Bank of Gaea has been the goldbug's friend for thousands of years.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 09:36
#261674
Haha - yeah...
on Sat, 03/13/2010 - 15:01
#264453
Eh, can you please elaborate, kind sir? I googled the bank, but still seek insight from you. Thanks in advance!
on Sun, 03/14/2010 - 18:56
#265316
GAEA or GE (Gaia or Gê), the personification of the earth. As in, dig a hole while no one is looking and bury it.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 09:17
#261647
Go GATA !
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 09:26
#261661
Re: Physical Gold Purchase: From what I understand about CEF, they are almost 50/50 gold and silver with possession of the physical. I could be wrong, but this is what I am lead to believe…that being said, who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men…
As far as delivery of the physical, there is one company, "goldandsilverexchange.info" that will deliver in three to four days, right to your door, insured, certified, etc. This company recommends pre-1933 US gold coins in all the denominations - $2.50, $5, $10, and $20. Silver is also top on their list.
The other one I have done business with is "Centennial Precious Metals", aka USAGold.com" out of Denver. Thye have all of the above, as well as foreign and all the bullion as well. Their turnaround time is a couple (1.5 - 2) of weeks. I am going to try the first company soon for my next purchase…
Bank safety deposit boxes are good in good times. In bad, they can get confiscated and your goods can "disappear"…"Gee, you had your life savings in there? I'm sooooo sorry, My. Hooplehead".
A good gun safe that you can bolt to your floor, wall, or imbed in concrete is the way to go. Fireproofed to stand a few hours of incendiary heat, your stash is well protected. For the really paranoid, you can bury it in 6" white or black PVC pipes with the threaded ends. Wrap the goods up well, throw in some anti-moisture dessicant stuff, and bury it somewhere that you'll be able to recover either quickly or easily. Without forgetting where you put it, so that that land developer 50 years from now won't dig it up and suddenly inherit your fortune in gold.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 09:56
#261704
Pre-33 US gold coins are usually sold under bogus legal theories. They are fine if the premium is reasonable, but I would not pay an extra premium for them.
"Gun safes" vary widely in security, from little boxes that can be opened in 30 seconds with common hand tools, to much heavier duty "safes" that are genuinely theft resistant. A lot of buyer's research is needed to get something good. If it's going to be mostly for PMs I would skip the gun safe and get a real TL-15 or TL-30 safe in a small and concealable size. Much higher security, won't cost that much more.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 09:36
#261676
I hear you, you GG, and agree gold is a partial solution to this "end of days" scenario you paint, and that a percentage of holdings devoted to the shiny metal objects is smart risk management. However, if the end of days comes, gold won't save you from that attack from heavily armed rogues who decide your house looks like it might have food and booze in it. Forget about it. Put another way, the thing that holds up paper money is the same thing that holds up "imaginary" things like laws, civil obedience and other concepts which while not "real" or "physical," make it possible for each of us to walk around without getting shot at on any given day.
If you really believe in the imminency of TEOTWAWKI, you are compelled to go long The Other Metal: Glocks, Remington pumps, deer rifles with scopes, and plenty of bullets. I'd also suggest other forms of currency that will be held in much higher regard than gold, such as food, liquor and toilet paper. Otherwise, those long The Other Metal will soon be pulling your metal out of your cold, dead (but accurately prophetic) hands.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 09:39
#261681
Another "end of world" currency, that few people ever mention will be anti-biotics. If there is anything that civilization has given us, and anything whose lack will be felt acutely when civilization falls apart - antibiotics (and maybe pain meds) are it.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 11:34
#261912
You can get bulk antibiotics cheap from the pet store. Penicillin/amoxycillin for fish? Sure. I keep mine in the fridge.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 12:30
#262064
LOL...said the same thing on one of the million madmax threads on TF.
Stockpile medicine. A simple infection is life threatening without antibiotics. You have them, you name your price to a dying man or the parents of a dying child. THAT is pricing power.
Even aspirin or NSAIDs to control a fever.
The people who stockpile guns for the EOW are fools; better to learn skills like how to make opium or something. Find something that sells well in collapsed societies.
And, the FRNbugs would be wise to understand the paradox of their idiocy - as society "collapses," and becomes more primitive and less "enlightened," what does that do to the value of shiny things? Seems to me that more primitive societies place a higher value on worthless yellow metals. We are not going to revert back to the "dark ages" but maintain all of our modern sensibilities.
on Fri, 03/12/2010 - 00:56
#262919
Oh, look, it's Trav. The guy that thinks its foolish to own guns because an armed person would have no chance against the military or police. Who plans on fighting the military or police, Trav? No one. Weapons are for protecting your family from criminals, and most criminals are inept.
By the way, since you whine about antibiotics as well, the answers are: veterinary supplies and colloidal silver generators. Come to think of it, two pure pieces of silver, wire, leads, a glass jar, and three nine volt batteries are all you need for a colloidal silver generator.
Now that your questions have definitively answered, please feel free to post less.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 10:16
#261736
Antiobiotics would be incredibly valuable - watch their storage life though.
"the other metal" is important, but useless without training and practice. And a couple dozen friends with guns if you actually want to deter a violent gang looking to raid your place.
I would suggest a balanced approach. I would also suggest reading survivalblog.com and FerFAL's surviving in Argentina blog. Two quite different perspectives, but I think both useful.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 23:50
#262859
viagra... how much per oz?
heh
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 10:33
#261769
I'm all the way pro gun but people need to ask themselves a few questions. Like are they willing to take a life, if so what are they going to do with a body? If there are still cops what are you going to tell the cops? If things are 3rd world and the cops are crooked how will you deal with the cops who show up? After all cops can be crooked now, in a bad situation what is to prevent them from seizing your valuables if you look well stocked and well armed?
All for guns for protection and I love target shooting so I highly recommend them, but people also need to ask questions about what could happen and how they will respond. Now is the time to plan.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 12:02
#261987
you know how some people buy lottery tickets just so they can dream about being rich... i think this place buys gold so they can dream about armageddon
there is no reason to over think it unless you are writing a book/screenplay - if/when it happens there will be so much chaos (think katrina) that all your planning will be devoured unless you got lots of friends...
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 12:14
#262017
Well I buy gold and dread Armageddon. I've said it before and I'll say it again I hope I'm wrong. I hope I take a bath on my preparations and we are at the start of a golden age of unlimited prosperity. I'm horrified about what could happen! I simply prepare because I plan on living even if I have to live in a shitty situation or a shitty place.
I think these questions need to be asked because I don't think it will be a full Armageddon and breakdown of society. I think it will be a slow grinding march into a 3rd world hellhole. They have crooked cops in Argentina, what is to make us think we won't have crooked cops here? In a total collapse then it might look like the road in which case of course you would not worry about the cops robbing you under color of law, because anyone could rob you and there is no law. Regardless I still think most people should at least think about these situations. Failure to plan is a plan to fail.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 12:08
#261998
If it comes down to folks on this forum taking a life, its probably safe to assume that law enforcement is no longer a reality.
looking around right now, we can already observer this by the massive number of law enforcement layoffs going on all around us.
That part of this mess is already happening.
If its crooked cops you are worried about,(and I don't think
there are that many actually, but then I have never been to Chicago!)
they will be just like anyone else and go where there is minimal
o no resistance.
As far as taking a life goes, just make sure you don't keep staring at the body. First timers always get fixated on the body and their
situational awareness goes to shit. So, NO STARING PLEASE!
Head up, keep looking around....no kidding.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 12:22
#262047
If anyone initiates force against me, or any other innocent party, it will result in the assailant's immediate incapacitation/death. Threating with a deadly weapon will result in the same:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justifiable_homicide
If one is unwilling to defend innocent life at all cost, then they are already a slave.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 21:09
#262672
Here, here. I pledged my life to humanity some time ago. Living for one's self is an empty pursuit.
on Fri, 03/12/2010 - 10:02
#263163
a noble and fulfilling sentiment, but it doesn't work if you have young children
on Fri, 03/12/2010 - 00:59
#262922
make sure you used a disposable gun, and don't leave any prints, when you load the clip. and don't forget to pick up your brass. shooting 1 attacker, is not enough. if you shoot 1 you have to shoot them all. better to avoid that scenario. your brain is more powerful than a gun, use it first.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 11:04
#261844
Store some wealth in you mind and body as well.
I spend money on the the highest quality food I can. A plague seems likely to me. I think Celente came out and said the same to me. MMA and gun training. Engineering, medicine, electronics technician will be useful in multiple scenarios.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 22:54
#262802
A guy who calls himself Ferfal writes about living through Argentina's currency collapse. For the last several years he has been saying that we should expect the same as he has endured. That's both good news and bad news. Good in the sense that it's not Mad Max; bad in the sense that it still sounds like it sucks.
His post called Thoughts on Urban Survival was extremely well received. It has been reposted numerous places, including here: http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=349477 I highly recommend it.
He now writes a blog called Surviving in Argentina.
http://ferfal.blogspot.com/
It too is worth a read.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 09:38
#261678
Is Reggie bankrupt yet, with his "short banks" trade?
Banks continue to look STRONG and open UP on this down day.
-BBH
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 10:34
#261773
"Banks continue to look STRONG"
Wait till the morticians get done, you'll swear they are alive!
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 16:54
#262363
our military "looks strong" from the outside too. Doesn't mean much
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 12:36
#262079
Reggie doesn't recommend trades, my friend. I also notice you were absent in the mortgage performance thread where I dumped all of that FDIC and NY Fed data to chew on. Plenty of facts so we don't have debate "he said, she said".
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 09:39
#261679
The Everbank notice is very, very telling. As far as Soros: remember, he was dissing the hell out of gold, all the while purchasing it. Just because he or the "papers" say he is long GLD, I would take it with a grain of salt. In fact, I would assume the exact opposite. But hey, if you want to "own" fiat gold or silver, it's a "free" market...
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 09:56
#261703
Just to clarify - Soros didn't say gold was in the "ultimate bubble" - he said it was going to be the "ultimate bubble". The press completely soundbited his words and made it into an anti-gold headline, when in fact he was at davos and he was putting money in.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 14:32
#262251
What he said was that gold is the ultimate bubble. As in the last bubble. The final bubble.
I agree that the press (and most people) misinterpreted what he actually said and meant.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 10:47
#261813
Soros' gold (GLD) holdings are less than TWO PERCENT of his entire portfolio.
487 million out of 25 billion.
It doesn't sound like he's bullish to me! A bullish bet would likely involve more than two percent of his portfolio.
on Fri, 03/12/2010 - 01:02
#262930
Since I slammed you on a thread earlier this week, let me commend you for this post. You provided one post, with a succinct, cogent, rational argument. You added value. Keep it up.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 09:39
#261680
http://www.wegelin.ch/download/medien/presse/kom_265en.pdf
Geneva paper speculated IRS to impose a 30% w/h tax on foreigners y'day
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 09:44
#261686
our process servers have been looking for you lately. would you mind please staying in one place so that we can hand you some very nice papers.
signed
citibank (south dakota) n. a.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 10:04
#261717
Someone HAS been playing around with the paper gold Comex price all week. Grubbily, almost DESPERATELY driving it down.
Someone, somewhere, screams in pain lately every time the Comex price exceeds about $1135.
Why, with cracks appearing and wheels falling off all around, does it keep FALLING? Does this have something to do with options expiry? Or, more likely, with this week's bond offerings?
In any case, do I care? (Liberty head Double Eagles (0.9675 oz.) have been going for $1400+ on eBay.) But this price manipulating gamesmanship just means I can still buy physical metal at the absurdly low Comex price tomorrow!
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 10:05
#261720
This issue about paper vs physical seems to be somewhat distorted. Users and producers of commodities including Gold and Silver have used futures markets as a hedge since 1974 on the COMEX. Speculators use it as well. Overall, less than 5% of the value of contracts traded are actually delivered/converted to physical form. GLD is probably the same in its ratio if not even smaller.
Market forces will drive the price should we see more demand for the metal. If you're that paranoid of the scam taking place, sure, then buy as much of the physical metal you can. It's expensive and difficult to store. If the shorts need to cover, they better identify the supply, perhaps the US Treasury, Russia, China, wherever. JPM or other market makers will have to participate in futures and even GLD/SLV to acquire shares or physical.
I think we're talking about general functions of the marketplace. In other words, it's not unusual that open interest in commodities is excessively higher than physical product. Same with Oil, Cotton, Soybeans and OJ for example.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 10:13
#261732
"If paper precious metals are at such risk, why do we read here at Zero Hedge about Paulson and Soros (among other "astute" investors) being long GLD?"
Only the naive base decisions on the public positions of "astute" traders.
If they are "long" it probably means they feel exposed and want
to sell to those who feel comforted knowing their positions.
Yeah right! Long as in long gone!
on Fri, 03/12/2010 - 01:06
#262933
didn't your mom ever ask you, if your best friend jumps off a cliff, are you going to jump off a cliff too. who gives a fuck what soros, says he's doing. think for yourself, and make your own decision,oh if its wrong, you won't be able to blame soros.
on Sun, 03/14/2010 - 10:52
#265025
the real question is to ask oneself why soros would bother making a statement, and then backtrace the logic to the real intent.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 10:15
#261734
everytime i see the name "denniger" mentioned it brings back bad memories of gold and silver bugs being constantly harrassed, lambasted, and verbally assaulted by this man on a continuing and daily basis, on his "forum" (if you want to call it that). since zerohedge opened up, i have not been back to his "forum" since the air around here is a tad more clear and less opaque. one day mr denniger, about the middle of last year, out of the blue, decided he wanted to humbug with jim willie....mr willie, after suffering the verbal barbs of said miscreant, opened up a can of whoop ass on the man from sunny niceville. what is the golden jackass said one time about mr denniger....oh that's right....he never has had a original idea in his life.....ha ha
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 11:56
#261971
+100
on Fri, 03/12/2010 - 00:31
#262893
You must not read him then. His Tickers are one of the few reflections of critical thought that exist in this sphere. He is clearly a megalomaniac, but that doesn't make him wrong.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 10:17
#261738
by the way gordo. how many of these "doorstops" do you think karl denniger has in his possession today? care to guess? i say zip, zero nada. he is a deflationista....just like mish shedlock and their little buddy over at kitco, nadler.....
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 11:06
#261849
I know, but he's good at reporting stuff which is why I referred to him.
on Thu, 03/11/2010 - 11:18
#261871
Denninger is definitely a big douche. If you don't agree with him, he calls you stupid and bans you from his forum. He thinks it is impossible for the U.S. to print money, so it isn't going to happen. If you disagree you are stupid and banished.