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"It's Not A Market, It's An HFT 'Crop Circle' Crime Scene" - Further Evidence Of Quote Stuffing Manipulation By HFT

Tyler Durden's picture


Recently we posted a required reading analysis by Nanex in which the market trading analytics firm presented irrefutable evidence of quote stuffing by HFT algorithms in tens of stocks, in which thousands of cancelled quotes would reappear each second with a definitive periodicity and regularity, around the time of the May 6 flash crash. Aside from the fact that it is illegal to indicate a quote without a trade intent, this form of quote stuffing is in fact manipulative when conducted by HFT repeaters in specific "shapes" as it actually moves the NBBO actively higher or lower, in cases pushing the bid/offer range up to 10% higher without even one trade ever having occurred, simply by masking a big block order which other algos interpret as bid interest and pull all offers progressively or step function higher (or vice versa, although we have rarely if ever seen the walking down of a stock over the past 18 months). It is as if the HFT lobby has been given the green light by the powers that be that it is safe to activate merely the bid-size quote stuffing algorithms, and not worry: the fact that the market is so one sided in its quote stuffing patterns is sufficient reason to worry of a concerted effort to push stocks higher, initiated from the very top, and effected by not only the Primary Dealer community but by the end-market "liquidity providers." Today, courtesy of Nanex we demonstrate that this type of illegal stock manipulation continues rampant to this very day, and the SEC still fails to acknowledge that it is precisely the HFT market participants that persist in destabilizing stock prices, which have given up responding to fundamentals and merely move up or down based on quote stuffing interventions by those who plead innocence and claim to only be providing liquidity. Well take a look at the millions in fake, and thus illegal, bids demonstrated below and tell us just how any of this manipulation is "providing liquidity" - the second the patterns break, the algos responsible for the churn pattern disappear, thus eliminating numerous levels of so called bid liquidity below the NBBO: break enough patterns and you have another flash crash as the market once again goes bidless.

So while the SEC continues to pander merely to the interests of the market manipulation lobby, and is now doing it in more style than ever by refusing to answer to FOIA requests going forward, here is Nanex with yet more evidence that we no longer have a market, but merely a daily recurring crime scene.

In our original Flash Crash
Analysis report
, we dedicated a section to an observed phenomena we termed
", in which bursts of quotes (at very high rates) with
extremely unusual characteristics were observed.

As we continue to monitor the markets for evidence of Quote Stuffing and
Strange Sequences (Crop Circles), we find that there are dozens if not
hundreds of examples to choose from on any given day. As such, this page will
be updated often with charts demonstrating this activity.

The common theme with the charts shown on this page is they are obviously all
generated in code and are algorithmic. Some demonstrate bizarre price or size
cycling, some demonstrate large burst of quotes in extremely short time frames
and some will demonstrate both. In most cases these sequences are from a single
exchange with no other exchange quoting in the same time frame.

And here, for your viewing pleasure, are the illegal market manipulative churn patterns conducted exclusively by various HFT algos:

BATS "Flag Repeater". 15,000 quotes in 11 seconds, dropping the ASK
price 1 penny each quote from $9.36 to $8.58 and back up again.

"The Crown". While not a large number of quotes, this NASDAQ/BATS
Bidsize sequence was just too unusual to bypass.

BATS "Batsicles". BATS price cycling through a large price range,
each intermittent with a stub quote, drop it down and start over.

NASDAQ "Blotter". One of the more unusual repeating Asksize

BATS "Stubby Triangles". Drop the quote from a valid price to 0.001
and then back up to a lower price level. When the new price level hits 0.001 as
well, do it all over again at approx. 380 times a second.

NASDAQ "Flutter". 4000 quotes in 2 seconds, alternating the bid
price/size in 3 increments and effecting the Best Bid along the way.

BATS "Periscopes". 8000 quotes in 3 seconds, alternating the bid
price each quote. Pop the size up 1 every second or so.

NASDAQ "Double Dip". Symbol SH. 10,000 Quotes in 4 seconds, each
affecting the Best Bid.

NASDAQ "Racing Stripe". Symbol WYNN. 2000 Quotes in one second, each
affecting the Best Ask.

PACIFIC "Puzzle Pieces". Symbol IIC.

NASDAQ "Blue Bandsaw". Symbol SHG. (760 quotes in 1 second, taken
from a total sampling of 10,000 quotes in 12 seconds)

BATS "60-Step". Symbol SAH. Take sixty steps up (a penny at a time)
and one step down (0.60), reset and do it all over again (at approx. 700 times
per second).

NASDAQ "Ask Mountain". Symbol IAU. Over 56,000 quotes in 10 seconds,
all with same Ask Price and the Ask Size increasing or decreasing by 1 (to
almost 40,000!

h/t Dan


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Sat, 07/31/2010 - 07:00 | 497581 Popo
Popo's picture

Ok, so who's going to jail? one?  Oh... I see...  Well apparently all these "laws" aren't really "laws" after all.  

Apparently, this is a giant free for all.  

So I guess the lesson here is:  Lie... Cheat... Steal...  Stop paying taxes.  Do whatever you like folks, because there are no cops!  The proof is right up there for everyone to see.

On a daily basis the SEC shows us that there are no repercussions, and will be no repercussions for breaking the law.  


Until we see 1000's (yes *thousands*) of bankers sentenced -- this will continue to be a complete and utter joke.






Sat, 07/31/2010 - 07:21 | 497592 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

Well now, in the first place this isn't real until a Gretchen Morgenson or an AEP runs with it. A Tyler Durden or a Matt Taibbi type can only serve as keen pointers for the guys (and gals) with shotguns. Of course, since ZH picked it up from a relatively obscure analytical source, it does demonstrate an information food chain in action. Deja vu. Did you just see that cat shudder twice?  

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 12:20 | 497815 MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

Two shudders and a hairball...

Look -- there's five-score monkeys over there reading ZH!

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 15:18 | 498006 caconhma
caconhma's picture

America loks more and more like Russia.

Yes, we got a black president but he is just an incompetent, lying, marxist puppet in the hands of his masters.   Our political landscape is becoming no different from Russia:
  • Terrible corruption here in America and there in Russia
  • Oligarchy is running country here and there
  • Russian president Medvedev is just Putin's puppet and Obama is just WallStreet banksters puppet
  • Russia has no democracy and America is losing it in a hurry (thanks to the staged 9/11 Patriot Act)
  • Russia cannot get by without a war ( Chechnya, Georgia, etc.,) and America cannot (Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia, etc.,)
  • Russian secret police controls their Parliament and WallStreet Hebrew mafia controls our Congress
  Yes, we are in a deep shit!
Sat, 07/31/2010 - 18:03 | 498166 drwells
drwells's picture

I don't buy the Hebrew bit but other than that, dead on. The country I grew up in is dead and gone.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 18:15 | 498171 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

doc--+1 on the joo thingie, please yourself, but I'd say don't loose faith -- there are kids and old farts alike who have not been heard from.

or despair your ass off-your call.

- Ned

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 22:00 | 498285 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Concentrate the loot in a few small piles and it makes the job of the smart amoral scumbags that much easier.   Centralize any organization - with lots of loot - and the sociopaths will run it.   We've been centralizing power in the US since before WW2 but, on a big scale - continuously after WW2.    No going back now though.   It's very easy for sociopaths to destroy a democracy (after all, our government has already destroyed a few in the name of "freedom").  


Sat, 07/31/2010 - 13:15 | 497869 French Frog
French Frog's picture

Is there really no politician left in America who is willing to take this on and at least get some sort of answer from the SEC?

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 14:19 | 497933 scratch_and_sniff
scratch_and_sniff's picture

Not really. Its financial warfare-kill or be killed. I would love to see them take this shit into the forex markets.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 22:08 | 498287 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

For the last 50+ years, the political system in the US is nothing but a sociopath vetting process.  The entry points into the system -  at the local level - is where new politicians prove they are sociopaths (will say anything and lie in exchange for campaign contributions, called bribes in most countries).    The owners of the combined Republicrat Party (there's two teams: a Blue Team and Red Team - our dumbass peasants are VERY easy to fool, the Party owners) allow the newbie politicians to advance if they don't threaten the nobility families that own the country.   Very simple system; has worked very well.  The nobility owns almost everything now.

Sun, 08/01/2010 - 00:25 | 498357 andy55
andy55's picture


Sun, 08/01/2010 - 01:00 | 498372 Bringin It
Bringin It's picture


People talking about change in November are fooling themselves.  All the new faces I see, those who've been tasked with wrestling the Tea Partiers into line, talk tough about spending money. 

But when you look a little deeper, the Scot Brown-s, Michelle Bachman-s, Shara Palin have a big hard-on for Zionist causes and are more than willing to spend your money and shed blood to prove it.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 07:20 | 497593 LeBalance
LeBalance's picture

Oh there are cops all right, but you need to determine which side of the law you are on.  Do you have permission to conduct all of the activities that you do during the day?  If so and you continue in the good graces of your clan or master, then all is well.  One of your set might come to you one day and ask that you do a turn in stir to mollify the populace (Milkin, Madoff, etc), but no worries, you will just make more bones with the boss.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 16:31 | 498094 AnonymousAnarchist
AnonymousAnarchist's picture

I've been gone for a week so I'm not sure if this was posted on ZH but I saw this a couple days ago on the ICYMI RSS Feed....

High-Frequency Programmers Revolt Over Pay

Pity the programmers toiling away at Wall Street's secretive high-frequency trading shops -- places like Goldman Sachs, Citadel and Getco. They wrote algorithms that take advantage of fleeting trading opportunities and bring in up to $100,000 a day. In return, they received a fraction of the pay doled out to their bosses. Now some programmers feel used and are instigating a revolt.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 22:10 | 498289 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Programmers revolting?  HA!   In their dreams maybe.   When it comes time to guard the re-education camps, the programmers and engineers will be the guards; probably the accountants too.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 22:50 | 498310 Oligarchs Gone Wild
Oligarchs Gone Wild's picture

Last summer, a programmer named Sergey Aleynikov left Goldman Sachs for a newly formed Chicago trading company called Teza Technologies. In February U.S. prosecutors indicted Aleynikov for allegedly stealing hundreds of thousands of lines of source code from Goldman's high-speed trading platform as part of a move from a $400,000 job to a $1 million one.

God's code is God's code.   In the Ark of the Covenant the code must remain, only the high preists are able to ssh into "those" servers...

Mon, 08/02/2010 - 01:05 | 499198 Ura Bonehead
Ura Bonehead's picture

Yes, I enjoyed that irony.  Sort of like an accountant for the mob going to jail for shaving a few grand from the drug operations.

America is truly screwed.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 07:28 | 497598 Sunshine Down t...
Sunshine Down the Road's picture

This is what the 'new normal' looks like... Got to keep the top 20% happy or the house falls... Distract the remaining 80% and get reelected. It seems too easy.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 09:39 | 497685 Whatta
Whatta's picture

"distract the remaining 80%"


You mean like terrorists are, we are bored with that...

you mean like global, we are bored with that...

You mean like...a big environmental disaster in the GOM...except now there is no oil to be found, and we are becoming bored with that...

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 14:34 | 497949 doublethink
doublethink's picture

How about a wedding?

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 18:38 | 498186 SuperBull
SuperBull's picture

You mean Chelsea Clinton?

She has her mother's beautiful smile... Isn't she adorable!  **cute**

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 22:23 | 498295 Almost Solvent
Almost Solvent's picture

Bethenny getting married wayyyyy better.
Plus she had a baby.
Love those Real Housewives of NYC!

Sun, 08/01/2010 - 15:25 | 498764 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

how 'bout another World Cup?

those sport tourney's keep the team spirit alive - go RED, go BLUE, go NATIONS!

when's the next Super BAwl partay?

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 14:57 | 497979 MrPalladium
MrPalladium's picture

"Got to keep the top 20% happy or the house falls... Distract the remaining 80% and get reelected. It seems too easy."

A cryptic reference to Vilfredo Pareto's law of social control; to wit, the top half of one percent run the show and reap most the benefits, but they must keep the next 20% of the population happy (those with the skills to replace them), and the bottom 80% don't matter.

Thus keeping prices elevated without having to spend real money is the establishment's wet dream. In a manner of speaking they are providing "liquidity" in that it is easier and less painful to sell into higher prices than lower prices.

But it is a sop to the next 20% - the group that should know better but that still wants to believe in the system.

And as Tyler so eloquently notes, risk just keeps rising through it all.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 20:54 | 498240 lewy14
lewy14's picture

Given these premis - I'd say personally that the critical "19.5%" is getting mighty fed up, and this is much more consequential than whatever the 80% is thinking.

Revolutions can and do occur within the elite.

In the context of Walter Russell Mead's taxonomy of American political classes, I'd call what's going on now a Hamiltonian civil war.

Coldish, for now, but heating up.

Sun, 08/01/2010 - 09:58 | 498468 fThis
fThis's picture

By "Hamiltonian civil war," I hope the Jeffersonians win out...doubtful, yet hope worthy, imho.  But then again, "hope in one hand & spit in the other, see which hand fills faster."  The ever expanding coercive and compulsive power of the national government has its centralizing foundation with Hamilton & others.

Politicians who make waves or attempt to actually do something about it are branded "moon-bats," to wit, Ron Paul.

Its every man for himself, so you better align yourself with the strongest gang if you want some measure of (political/economic) safety & security.  Sad, but (risk of redundancy) imho, true.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 21:21 | 498255 caconhma
caconhma's picture

Back in 1920, Lenin had problems with his fellows Jewish member of his Bolshevik Party.

So, what did he do? Lenin expanded his Ruling Party Politburo with totally illiterate workers. Why? When one of them was asked whether they understand issues they are voting for, he gave a perfect reply: "No we don't understand  the issues we are voting on but we ALWAYS vote ways Lenin instructs us to vote."


Do the Congressmen read the financial reforms bill (or for this matter most of other bills)? The answer is "NO" but they are allowed to add something for themselves. This is how American politics works. It is that simple.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 22:00 | 498284 MacedonianGlory
MacedonianGlory's picture

The same thing happens in Greece.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 08:02 | 497613 megatoxic
megatoxic's picture

Completely agree. 

We need to find a nice little coastal island somewhere and turn it into a prison isle for criminal bankers.  Barring that, it may be time for some vigilante justice, since the authorities clearly have no intention of stopping these crooks.

No, I'm not joking.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 13:08 | 497859 Cistercian
Cistercian's picture

I strongly disagree.We should throw them into a volcano.Katla demands a sacrifice!

 Yes, throw them into the lake of fire.....before it is too late!

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 14:24 | 497941 scratch_and_sniff
scratch_and_sniff's picture

Strap the fuckers to the electric chair and let the algos determine the amplitute.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 23:46 | 498334 BurritoGas
BurritoGas's picture



Sorry. Couldn't resist.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 14:49 | 497969 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

I like it, it is a way to bail out Iceland, they could charge (not too much either) for each event. - Ned

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 15:27 | 498015 Noah Vail
Noah Vail's picture

I am most fond of gullotines. It takes one to two minutes for the brain to die after the head is severed.

I wonder what they think about in the interim, LOL.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 16:10 | 498081 scratch_and_sniff
scratch_and_sniff's picture

Probably about how they could scam you in 2 minutes.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 20:12 | 498228 superman07
superman07's picture

High powered rifles are cheap. 338LM will end any bankers tyranny.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 20:18 | 498229 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

you bet. misguided children think "one round-one target"

Line 'em up and knock 'em down.

- Ned

Sun, 08/01/2010 - 15:33 | 498784 Ardent Spirits
Ardent Spirits's picture

Like the Nazis did. One bullet can go thru four or five people when they're lined up.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 09:12 | 497659 breezer1
breezer1's picture

a joke? whats wrong with you people? these machines are the only thing keeping the markets up. do you want a complete collapse? do you want chaos? the next thing would be a real estate crash, gdp would plummet, unemployment would be 20% instead of 9%.

wake up will ya , they are doing all this for us.

oh shit i gotta go , the president is on a talk show, gee he has such a nice smile. later.   

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 15:33 | 498021 Bartanist
Bartanist's picture

Your questions are actually serious questions:

I do not want a collapse, but want a fair and real market and from there we can start to progress. If to get there, the current bag holders have to get a 70% haircut, well so be it.

No, I do not want chaos.

Unemployment is already at 20% and climbing. With real and trustworthy markets unemployment would 20% and declining.

Yeah, the Manchurian (err Kenyan) Candidate blew off a prior commitment with the Boy Scouts to be on "The View".

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 17:33 | 498144 Rainman
Rainman's picture

Barry will no doubt get wind of this particular ZH article. It is linked into from Huff Po, average readership IQ of 91. I'll be damned. 

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 21:04 | 498244 Sisyphus
Sisyphus's picture

As of 9:00 PM EST, Saturday, guess how many comments has this article generated on HF (41). Next, guess how many comments has Chelsea marrying Marc has generated (313). Now, do you have any reason to ask why 'they' have been able to pull it off? I don't.


We have seen the enemy and he is us.


Sat, 07/31/2010 - 22:26 | 498297 Village Idiot
Village Idiot's picture

"We have seen the enemy and he is us."


I just happened across this quote the other day - everything happens for a reason. bwahahaha.  Seriously, what a disgraceful commentary. Time to pull collective head out of ass.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 23:00 | 498317 Sisyphus
Sisyphus's picture


VI, it is kinda strange to call you that. I have read your commentary and your moniker doesn't do you justice. You are much smarter than the most of us here. However, not knowing your real name, I guess I'll have to address you using your nom de plume.

Yes, I do agree, what a disgraceful commentary. You know what, it's much worse out there in the real world. I 'experiment' with my friends, colleagues and acquaintances and leave the encounter stunned, worried, saddened and concerned. I ask them the most basic question - 'what is money' - and am utterly stunned by their responses. These are the same people who are managers and directors at fortune 500 companies. I was in Chicago once and an executive from UBS happened to be sitting next to me at the hotel bar. And I asked him about his views on the economy. His response was, he doesn't know, he doesn't care, he doesn't think about it, and as long as he has a job it doesn't matter. The stock market is coming back and that's all that is important to him. Rest is inconsequential.

I am sure, most people in the U.S. would share his view. Revolution? What revolution? Keep the indexes rising and the rest will be forgotten by the masses.

Sun, 08/01/2010 - 02:12 | 498391 Village Idiot
Village Idiot's picture

Thank you for the compliment, Sisyphus. And the guy you refer to, was me.  Still safe, but not feeling secure.  Take care.

Sun, 08/01/2010 - 09:57 | 498476 fThis
fThis's picture

Sarcasm noted, and appreciated. +11 to counter "junks."

Sun, 08/01/2010 - 16:02 | 498820 merehuman
merehuman's picture

i recognize sarcasm when i see it. Well done and never mind the junkers, they are impervious to sublety.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 09:20 | 497664 Gordon Freeman
Gordon Freeman's picture

No, Popo, there are PLENTY of cops, lots and lots of cops, SWATs, soldiers, detectives, prosecutors, and so forth--this is a POLICE STATE, after all.

The problem is that all that enforcement we pay through the nose for is to keep the sheeple in line, particularly the upper middle-class, who have something to lose, thus are easy to terrorize, and holding a bit of coin to shake down at every opportunity.  Wall Street is off the hook, my friend.

Nothing will change until the system changes.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 09:32 | 497673 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

The upper middle class is the dangerous parties to the fraud.  They are typically educated, informed, and well read but, moreover, they are close enough to the elite to see and understand the fraud.  When they get the feeling that their comfortable yet less than opulent life is going into the shitter then they mobilize and organize.  That's the danger.  When I see my ability to provide for my family going the hell-in-a-handbasket and my kids future in jeopardy...I get a wee bit pissed.


Sat, 07/31/2010 - 10:39 | 497732 Carl Marks
Carl Marks's picture

Right you are. The UMC works for the Oligarchy. Like all workers, their loyalty is rented.Obama is gambling that the lower classes will coalesce around him while he fleeces the UMC, but my money says otherwise.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 11:15 | 497755 Village Idiot
Village Idiot's picture

Anger within the ranks of the UMC. I'm seeing it every day.  Refreshing.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 14:35 | 497950 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

VI, THIS member of the UMC is pissed too.  I do not work for the Oligarchy because I don't (for the most part) work.  What work I do is for our own little Peruvian bearing company.

Like all of you above, what more do the Regulators need to see to get their d**n investigations going?

They have to be in on it, as someone above suggested.  They know it's going to crash and get very ugly.  And then we line the whole lot of 'em up: politicians, HFTs, "Regulators", banksters and throw them into Katla.  Trial could take place in Reykyevik (sp?), would merely take an afternoon to prove them ALL guilty, put them into a fleet of dump trucks, and into the volcano they go.  On the other hand, that lot might not be tasty, Katla might blow up after feeding her THAT garbage.

Yeah, burns my butt too.  THERE is the evidence (great work Tyler), now let's get 'em.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 13:10 | 497861 PatsPal
PatsPal's picture

We shout and scream in anger and nothing changes. What we need is action. We need to unit together against the banksters. Do you think they will hear us if millions of us on a single day marched into our banks and closed every account we have withdrawing all of our money?  If we can organize that movement which is completely legal it would shut them down in a single day. Lets get it going.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 16:50 | 498110 rapunzel
rapunzel's picture

just do it.

i did it.

bank of rapunzel Ω

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 22:34 | 498302 Village Idiot
Village Idiot's picture


"We shout and scream in anger and nothing changes. What we need is action"


lets keep it rolling.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 10:38 | 497730 Number 156
Number 156's picture

Its obviously a free for all, considering these algos are throwing thousands upon thousands of quottes per second.

The next trading I am more interested in doing is bartering.

The sudden stop is comming.


Sat, 07/31/2010 - 10:46 | 497737 Calculated_Risk
Calculated_Risk's picture

 Well apparently all these "laws" aren't really "laws" after all. 





Welcome to Arizona...

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 13:42 | 497892 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

Even the folks who handle the crime scene are a crime scene. Signs of collapse

Sun, 08/01/2010 - 16:10 | 498830 merehuman
merehuman's picture

Bps crime scene in the gulf. And they are still in charge, 2 million gallons of poison to prove it. Now folks are showing up with internal bleeding. Meanwhile i keep seeing major blowouts on the seafloor last few days.


But folks arent being warned and few know of the oilrain killing plants and how birds and bugs are reported as scarce to none.

If we had a government of the people they would be warning us instead of hiding reality. This is government by criminals, financial pirates.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 13:53 | 497904 scatterbrains
scatterbrains's picture

Could they be adding fluff to the pricing in order to sell calls and crush everyone just before option expirey ? fluff and crush, rinse repeat

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 14:06 | 497918 laughing_swordfish
laughing_swordfish's picture

+ 100

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 16:39 | 498102 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

Here it is, market manipulation.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 19:30 | 498212 russki standart
russki standart's picture

Popo, No one will go to jail. The system is corrupted beyond hope, the regulators are captured and will not go against their future HFT employers. As in any fascist society, the small to save (about 99% of americans) and the weak will be hammered, bullied and threatened into submission.  We will be fined, jailed, subjected to oppressive taxation whilst the  banksters will buy their way out of trouble; for the recalcitrant few politicians who cannot be bought or blackmailed,  they can always be suicided. Our only hope is to overthrow these bastards before we become completely enslaved.




Sat, 07/31/2010 - 06:56 | 497582 newstreet
newstreet's picture


Sat, 07/31/2010 - 09:32 | 497674 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture


Sat, 07/31/2010 - 10:23 | 497716 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

Mark 12:17 (2010 translation)

Then Jesus said to them, "Give to Blankfein what is Blankfein's and to God what is God's." And they were amazed at him.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 11:32 | 497767 freshman
freshman's picture

Luke 21:20

But when you see _<fill the blank>_ surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near.


Sat, 07/31/2010 - 10:26 | 497720 e_goldstein
e_goldstein's picture


Sat, 07/31/2010 - 07:04 | 497584 plocequ1
plocequ1's picture

So what do you recommend , Go long, Go short or get the fuck out of the market?

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 07:27 | 497597 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

#3 - this market is a haunt for vipers, demons and professionals (yes you need a scorecard to differentiate). Unless you are a wunderkind chartist of Johnny Bravo caliber, I suggest you act defensively as the scheme will ultimately unravel and devolve to B9K9's last resort...

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 08:18 | 497628 MarketTruth
MarketTruth's picture

Agree, get the fuck out of the market now!

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 09:06 | 497656 wyosteven
wyosteven's picture

Nonsense, Skynet is not self-aware.

What you do is put your big-girl panties back on and stop trading and start investing.  Given the widespread (and only increasing) use of HFT your horizon may have to increase from seconds to months.

Oh, the last catch is to invest in companies making money, not lies and profits based off the giant government mammary gland in the sky.

Good luck traders, this is the writing on the wall for most. 

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 09:34 | 497675 outamyeffinway
outamyeffinway's picture

If you can't touch it, don't own it. Why play their game and be an enabler? Still trying to get rich? That's the mentality that's destroying the moral fabric of the world. Everyone wants to be rich I won't lie (unless your a monk), but one must draw a line.

edit: Upon reflection, most people I know don't want to be rich, they want to be left the fuck alone and being rich allows for that.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 14:29 | 497945 scratch_and_sniff
scratch_and_sniff's picture

"most people I know don't want to be rich, they want to be left the fuck alone and being rich allows for that."


I second that motion. I really do. The only reason i am in this game is to get out of it.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 15:43 | 498051 Bartanist
Bartanist's picture

That is not the ruling class philosophy. They want to be the popular kids and will sell their soul to feel that their worthless lives are actually good lives ... they need constant reinforcement.

Sun, 08/01/2010 - 02:15 | 498392 Village Idiot
Village Idiot's picture

"most people I know don't want to be rich, they want to be left the fuck alone and being rich allows for that."


I second that motion. I really do. The only reason i am in this game is to get out of it.


Beat me to it.

Sun, 08/01/2010 - 03:33 | 498402 i.knoknot
i.knoknot's picture


your statement has been made in many different ways in here, but seldom as well.

it's my litmus test on new laws and ideologies:

 "will your 'proposal' allow me more distance from the 'system', or force me closer to it?"



Sun, 08/01/2010 - 15:46 | 498801 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

++ many awareness points to be divided with y'all above.

"will your 'proposal' allow me more distance for the 'system,' or force me closer to it?"

that's my litmus.  "are you gathering yet more information about me, to be used against me?  yes? then GTFO"

Sun, 08/01/2010 - 01:20 | 498380 Battleaxe
Battleaxe's picture

They use every $1 that is invested/deposited and apply their 10-100 times leverage and use it to game the markets. So if you put 10k into a position, they have 100k-1M new money to play with. Go short short short! There are signs of desperation in their market manipulations. Arch Crawford is right. There is going to be a big dump in the market in the next week or two. Go SHORT.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 14:27 | 497930 B9K9
B9K9's picture

You rang? The reason there's so much vitriol & pure emotional reaction resulting from these revelations is due to the vast majority of people failing to realize that the last resort was executed long ago. OK boys & girls, I'm going to say it once again, very slowly this time - please repeat after me:

The USA is a fascist oligarchy which utilizes military power to control critical strategic resources that supports a fiat money system used to manage a global empire.

This system (aka the "MIC") was placed in service @ the end of WWII. Since that time, we have always lived in a managed war-time economy. It only appeared to function as a free-market system that followed basic rules of law as a mere convenience. That's because it was easier to control the herd than to admit the underlying Constitutional system had been upturned.

Btw, this isn't some deep seated secret conspiracy either. Millions (10s of millions?) of people have, and continue to, benefited from this arrangement with perfect awareness. I had a great UMC upbringing and knew it the entire time. The father (a wealthy MD) of my first girl-friend was perfectly frank in declaring we needed another war after Viet Nam to get the economy going. This is how people thought & still think in intelligent circles.

Now that the power-elite are faced with the most critical challenge to their control & power, the trappings that were merely for show are being ripped away. After all, maintaining an illusion of this scale is a luxury they just cannot afford during this kind of emergency.

So now everyone (that is, the clueless) are waking up and are shocked, shocked I tell you! Denninger would have to be among the most pathetic. His constant braying about the law would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

Let me summarize how this is going to play out: the power-elite are either going to pull off blowing another bubble, or they aren't. If they do, this outrage will quickly be forgotten as everyone makes a mad dash to catch the gravy train. If they don't, then we're either going to have a military coup or (series of) secession.

Either way, the USA as we have experienced it during our entire lives is done, kaput, all pau.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 15:07 | 497993 RichardP
RichardP's picture

... we're either going to have a military coup or (series of) secession.

Will Arizona be the first one out?


Sat, 07/31/2010 - 16:50 | 498111 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

Rickards actually mentioned AZ and the threat to the Central Power command in his latest KWN interview. The cure for complexity bloat is simplification and decentralization, either embraced or imposed. Think locally, act locally.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 22:19 | 498294 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Yes,  but the myth isn't dead in the peasants yet.

I think TPTB can still use the natural peasant fear of "those people" too keep them in line for many decades.    And, with enough eagles and flags (in slow motion) the dumbasses will still think they are REAL Mericans.  

Look out, "they" are gonna git yer daughter!  "They" are right behind ya.   Only a powerful Merica can save you now.   "Those people" are using your "rights" to git yer daughter.  Give us those rights and we'll protect you!  

Works every time.   Same clowns, different circus.  

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 22:40 | 498306 MeTarzanUjane
MeTarzanUjane's picture

Funny to see that you have such a black and white perspective. Reality may be in the gray areas.

What happens if a semi-bubble is blown up taking 10 years to do so? How much ad revenue will bilda-bear websites earn during this period? And while we're talking about periods....

Just thinkin out loud, dawg.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 23:00 | 498316 Blankman
Blankman's picture

Here is some interesting reading as to how they did it:


I would love to hear hear from some lawyers confirming the above 

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 09:08 | 497657 Everyman
Everyman's picture

Explosives. LOL.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 07:07 | 497585 Debtless
Debtless's picture

So, don't play a rigged casino.

Invest in baseball cards or Star Trek chit.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 07:09 | 497586 masterdjm
masterdjm's picture


Sat, 07/31/2010 - 08:30 | 497634 ShankyS
ShankyS's picture

They have figured out how to salvage the recources of the PPT via HFT, and you can throw in the illegal rumormill of speculated M&A and other various "news" driven moves that are no more than market pump at our expense.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 09:35 | 497678 outamyeffinway
outamyeffinway's picture

EXCELLENT! Now they can surf porn too and the job will still get done! Life is good. Really good.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 07:11 | 497588 VK
VK's picture

Look at the pretty pictures... Do algos do 3D?

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 14:21 | 497934 thesapein
thesapein's picture

I was thinking more like musical notes. Such beautiful scores.

These markets not only fly, they sing, as well.

Hey, look, that server is putting out a mating call! 

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 07:13 | 497589 Sunshine Down t...
Sunshine Down the Road's picture

If you can't beat them... join them?  What if everyone got into the HFT game?

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 07:31 | 497600 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

Not everyone can get into the colocation game, so just how fast do you think you can be? Faster than the next guy? It would be a painful lesson to find out that your hardware/software investment was in vain - but thanks for supporting the economy there Mr. Quixote!

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 10:49 | 497739 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

I think I've seen this movie before.   When the market has another "flash crash" and cannot recover, there will be incredulous statements from the SEC, "We could not have seen THAT coming!".   Right, like nobody saw the housing market crash.  Uh-huh.  Now is the time for action, not later with deniability.  Wonder how much money can be driven to bonds with a really scary market crash?  What we see in the charts above are the trial runs and tests to see which of the systems will create the most/least damage while maintaining some semblance of control. 

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 12:53 | 497842 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

Rocky, I like your thinking.  We do the same thing, put in 1% step and characterize the system and control system response.  I'd bet these folks are assuming linear time-invariant response (remember, they assume Gaussian distributions in B-S and other "predictive" equations).

So does the system function stay the same?  I doubt it for big moves and for moves more than say a month out.

- Ned

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 13:00 | 497851 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

It might turn out like the early experiments in making meth, it works until it blows the shed all to hell.   These guys are playing in real markets.  Imagine what mayhem they are doing in closed-system synthetic market models.  What appears like the graphs above are what escapes from the lab!

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 13:54 | 497906 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

Meth is a good analogy including those burglaries to steal chemicals for the big jobs

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 15:05 | 497990 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

I'd say that these are early experiments as well.  And the small-signal nature is the meth pot cooking along, until something goes exothermic and the "reaction" gets out of the previously controllable condition.  I've been thinking the flash-crash was something like that.  Not sure that these are escapees, maybe .spx price on millisecond or microsecond scale is the escapee.

- Ned

(p.s.--there was a time when I could use the word "ergodic" correctly in an English sentence; alas, no more).

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 17:03 | 498116 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Hey, Meat!  You sound like you know way too much about cookin' meth.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 18:28 | 498173 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

every time I've peed into the bottle, THEY COULD NOT FIND ANYTHING.

i have no idea what you are talking about.

- Ned

OT-my bunkmate at an exclusive boys summer camp buried himself into Nimitz ass and left behind two little girls.  Navy started the pee-in-the-bottle thing and found, well ... "grass" 'board a grey boat.

- still Ned


Sat, 07/31/2010 - 07:13 | 497590 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Whoa! The Unravelling the HFT mystery. 

How can the average investor even stand a chance. 

But even this will blow over. There is not enough angst left in us, no vitality left to fight, even the most egregious crimes against us.

We're happy enough venting with words.

We'll end with a whimper at this rate.




Sat, 07/31/2010 - 07:22 | 497595 LeBalance
LeBalance's picture

Those in complete surrender have taken the position of ultimate power by shirking all responsibility.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 10:22 | 497715 Neo
Neo's picture

Those in complete surrender have taken the position of ultimate power by shirking all responsibility.


That is f'ing brilliant.


Sat, 07/31/2010 - 11:47 | 497781 SteveNYC
SteveNYC's picture

Brilliant. The true power of "surrender" could not possibly be understood by the sheep at large. Most sheep see "surrender" in the context of "surrender, and the terrorists win...." or some other false description of the word that has been implanted into their simple, washed brains.

One must surrender, accept what is, in order to be master of one's self and attain ultimate power.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 12:38 | 497830 MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

Most people have to survive some sort of end-of-the-road or near-death experience to crossover into this viewpoint / existence.

Seems that the opportunities for such experiences are on the increase.

Sun, 08/01/2010 - 16:06 | 498824 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

One must surrender, accept what is, in order to be master of one's self and attain ultimate power.

the acceptance of what IS includes surrendering the illusion of control over All That IS. . .

the "ultimate power" wordage has too many "meanings" and can be con-fusing when not defined. . .when truly embodying a full surrender, one acts, observes, and surrenders the outcome, simultaneously.


Mon, 08/02/2010 - 05:46 | 499259 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture


Well said CA. Spot on.


Sat, 07/31/2010 - 11:31 | 497759 Village Idiot
Village Idiot's picture

you must have missed the "bumper sticker" memo.  getting a voice back - it's a start.


Originally Posted July 30, 2010

Anyone interested in taking a step, albeit very small, to get something off the drawing board?

I've been thinking about a sticker, bumper size, that identifies American Patriots. I think that includes a large majority of the ZH community. But wouldn't directly identify said patriot as a member of ZH.

Personally, I'd like to be driving down the road and give a thumbs up to the person next to me.  It's a start.

keep it simple, but identify two main themes - "patriot" (someone who cares and understands what is happening in this country) and one other word.  A word that tells the oligarchy that we are on to them (I could use some help here).  I'm thinking of some reverse psyops like, "dumb" perhaps.  Dumb Patriot.  Dumb may not be the word, but "they" do consider us as some form of dumb.

I use the the avatar "Village Idiot" because it acknowledges right up front that I may be, and sometimes am, the VI.  But you can't use it against me because I am the VI, after all.  We both know.  That is the key - one word that represents the power of the people, and another word that signifies a mutual understanding that, to the contrary, we aren't dumb.

I need a little help developing this, though, but hopefully you get the idea.  I would be privileged to contribute any way I can, financially or otherwise. 

I hope this idea gets some traction - I really would like to be running down the road and give a big thumbs up to my fellow Dumb? Patriot.


I'll probably post this around the site and see what happens.  Cheers.


 EDIT:  For you "Oligarchy" may not be the defining word or group that is taking us down.  Feel free to replace with something else.  Also, a poster was kind enough to point out that this is not just an "American" issue.  A global translation would be even bigger.



Sat, 07/31/2010 - 11:48 | 497783 SteveNYC
SteveNYC's picture

How about "Being:Aware"



Sat, 07/31/2010 - 11:54 | 497794 Village Idiot
Village Idiot's picture

thanks for the reply steve.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 15:46 | 498013 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Good plan VI. It does need to start somewhere.

But given where things are and where we (as in everyman) have reached as beings, something more substantial will cause the shake-up needed.

Now a strike is aggression (it's in the name/word/symbol, regardless of it being a peaceful "strike", I'm sure the oxymoron is clear to behold.

Eye for eye and the whole world.....etc.

So first we need to intelligently re-language what word to use in an act of subverting the system without violence, implied or real.

Also, violent actions bring about violent change, quite needless. We do not need more violence.

I have a solution. It is the most graceful way to pull the system back. An effortless and face saving return to the saddle. A way to reach a place where HAL will always remain a piece of fiction. A path for us, individually and collectively regain our "selves".

The first step is the hardest one. That's no cheap cliche.

I was given a key, six years ago, almost to the day. 

I'm absolutely and completely serious. If a 1000 people were to co-ordinatedly do and document their practice of what I call Luddite Karate, we could seed a shift of something, perhaps just perspective. 

Often, that's all it really takes.

Can I find them here? Or here and within six degrees? 

My sixth sense always goes into "high" mode on ZH, particularly in my interactions with people on certain topics.

Resonance is just a 1000 people clapping together.


It's how they built the pyramids in Egypt and the monasteries in Tibet.

Through the largely lost art of directed acoustic resonance. 


 I'd like this community to help me find the 1000, with due kudos to ZH for creating this mind-bending community in the first place.


Remember too, that we are coming into the age of Aquarius,

From Wikipedia:

Ages are believed by some astrologers to affect mankind while other astrologers believe the ages correlate to the rise and fall of mighty civilizations and cultural tendencies. Aquarius traditionally "rules" electricity, computers, flight, democracy, freedom, humanitarianism, idealists, modernization, rebels and rebellion, mental diseases, nervous disorders, and astrology.[4] Other keywords and ideas believed associated with Aquarius are nonconformity, philanthropy, veracity, perseverance, mankind and irresolution.[5] The appearance or elevation in status of many of these Aquarian developments over the last few centuries is considered by many astrologers to indicate the proximity of the Aquarian age. There is no uniform agreement about the relationship of these recent Aquarian developments and the Age of Aquarius. Some astrologers believe that the influence of a New Age is experienced before it arrives because of a cuspal effect or Orb of Influence. Other astrologers believe the appearance of Aquarian developments indicate the actual arrival of the Age of Aquarius.

Well, I'd say this is an Aquarian group. We have all the characteristics, save irresolution, which I did not quite understand.

Come on by....



Sat, 07/31/2010 - 22:02 | 498210 Village Idiot
Village Idiot's picture

"Resonance is just a 1000 people clapping together."


that's easy, i'm in.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 22:44 | 498307 MeTarzanUjane
MeTarzanUjane's picture


Sun, 08/01/2010 - 02:18 | 498393 Village Idiot
Village Idiot's picture

I'm clapping.

Sun, 08/01/2010 - 11:16 | 498524 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture




Sun, 08/01/2010 - 16:34 | 498852 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

. . . and what was thought, is now shared, holding the space begins with intent.

I'll add that the Aquarian archetype has two planetary rulers, Saturn (of old) and Uranus ("discovered" more recently). . . Saturn represents the "status quo" or the structures built to contain the intent / vision / beliefs, including personal and the collection of persons known as "cultures". . . when the structures are outgrown, there can be a "breakout" - which is Uranian, the overthrow of systems that are now limiting further growth. . . Uranus was the first planet to be "seen" with a telescope (technology invented which furthers the culture - Saturn). . . Uranus was "seen" a few years before the American, and French Revolutions. . .

I'd agree that the ZeroHedge community embodies both sides of the Aquarian archetype, with some still holding their cultural positions, and others breaking out of the accepted "reality," turning around to point fingers and mock. . . here's hoping more will apply the need for "change" to works that further a new "vision" - a personal revolution embodied for cultural shift. . .

Resonance.  It's how we "find" each other. . .


Mon, 08/02/2010 - 05:50 | 499261 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

"Resonance.  It's how we "find" each other. . ."


Anyone resonating?


Sat, 07/31/2010 - 15:11 | 497999 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

Village not an--I have refined my business case, here goes.  Team with: .

It will sell like hotcakes, both the removal and the new sticker.  Especially after the training video is viewed:

No affiliation, dang.

- Ned

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 22:36 | 498213 Village Idiot
Village Idiot's picture

Village not an--I have refined my business case, here goes.  Team with: .

It will sell like hotcakes, both the removal and the new sticker.  Especially after the training video is viewed:

No affiliation, dang.

- Ned



Joint product launch, my pig! 



I hope that 75.9% of this site see's the first link. The bestest.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 13:23 | 497875 PatsPal
PatsPal's picture

I don't agree. I believe that there are millions and millions of people willing to act and act now. We need to unite with a cause. We need a way to to create a single granuality to push a wave in one direction or another. The teachers union can control the outcome of an election, why can't we unite and take the banksters down in a single day? We can. Its easy. We just need to set a date in the future and spread the cause. A national bank run on a single day. Let's freaking do it.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 13:54 | 497905 Village Idiot
Village Idiot's picture

your post has merit for sure. whether it be a bumper sticker, or something else, the awareness level has got to come up. What is that symbol of awarness going to be? all in the spirit of peace, of course.  thanks for responding.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 14:54 | 497967 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Let's pick a day and make this easy for everyone.  How about Thursday, August 12?

EVERYONE goes to their ATM (early enough during the day) and pulls out the max you can.  When the machine runs out of money, go into the bank and ask for $1000 (sort of a fine on them for not having enough money in the machine).

I pick Thurs, Aug 12 because it gives a little time to organize and get the word out.  Then Thursday's and Friday's market action would be REAL INTERESTING, hmm?

I'm ready, let's do it.  Thanks again VI for your call to action yesterday.


EDIT: I think I am going to repost this a few times in similar upcoming threads.  Alternative ideas welcome (as VI has said).  Oh, and buy some gold too.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 15:23 | 498010 RichardP
RichardP's picture

Most banks have limits on how much a person can withdraw in cash on one day.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 15:39 | 498035 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

ANY bank will let you take out a lousy $1000, perhaps until August 12.

Oh, and send the SEC / HFTrs / banksters / politicians, etc. for a quick trial in Iceland, put 'em all in dump trucks, and throw them into Katla.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 20:03 | 498219 Village Idiot
Village Idiot's picture

by DoChenRollingBearing
on Sat, 07/31/2010 - 11:54


"Let's pick a day and make this easy for everyone.  How about Thursday, August 12?

EVERYONE goes to their ATM (early enough during the day) and pulls out the max you can.  When the machine runs out of money, go into the bank and ask for $1000 (sort of a fine on them for not having enough money in the machine).

I pick Thurs, Aug 12 because it gives a little time to organize and get the word out.  Then Thursday's and Friday's market action would be REAL INTERESTING, hmm?

I'm ready, let's do it.  Thanks again VI for your call to action yesterday.


EDIT: I think I am going to repost this a few times in similar upcoming threads.  Alternative ideas welcome (as VI has said).  Oh, and buy some gold too."



I'm feelin' the juices starting to flow!


I just put "PULL MAXIMUM AMOUNT FROM ATM AUG 12" in my Outlook (microsoft).



How about a weekly/bi-monthly/monthly action plan? an idea, doesn't need to be a "majority vote" kind of thing - just the most passionate (and legal) idea to come forward that draws people together.

If you commit to this idea/plan, then you do your best to follow through. Encourage friends to follow along. Keep it rolling.


The ATM idea would be a great place to start.


PS - with the right PR assistance something like this could get coverage.  And with the right people up front...a new political force, perhaps?

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 21:16 | 498254 PatsPal
PatsPal's picture

I think a successful protest requires coordination. We need to determine the medium of communication. I think it is clear the internet as it is free and not under the control of our facist government. I like the idea of a bumber sticker. What if we had a bumber sticker "Withdraw $$ Or Government Will - March 10 2011" 

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 22:15 | 498291 Village Idiot
Village Idiot's picture

"I think a successful protest requires coordination. We need to determine the medium of communication."


Agreed - Coordination isn't my strongest suit, but I would venture to guess we need a meeting place (forum) that is dedicated to the project.  And some sort of bulletin board.  Any thoughts out there?

Sun, 08/01/2010 - 01:54 | 498386 RichardP
RichardP's picture


Sun, 08/01/2010 - 02:21 | 498394 Village Idiot
Village Idiot's picture

Never used it.  If it works, so be it.

Sun, 08/01/2010 - 03:20 | 498399 RichardP
RichardP's picture

Word will spread the fastest on Twitter.  Find someone who will tweet their friends, who will then tweet their friends, who will tweet their friends, and so on.  Date, time, and amount of withdrawal.  You could actually reach critical mass with Twitter.  Other blogs would pick up on it, and maybe the MSM.  Good social experiment.  It is your idea.  Make it happen.

Sun, 08/01/2010 - 09:26 | 498455 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

Google: "meetup" and get

About 6,330,000 results (0.11 seconds)

Iranians were using twitter and meetup.

But, thanks to suzie and olie, Our Dear President now has internet kill switch.

What does that do to FX and futures traders who are monitoring trades minute by min...?

- Ned

Sun, 08/01/2010 - 11:07 | 498513 Village Idiot
Village Idiot's picture

"It is your idea.  Make it happen."

Good input, thanks. However, this little gem is not my idea - my calendar is marked for august 12th, though.

Sun, 08/01/2010 - 13:37 | 498664 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture



Twitter and Google meetup are two technologies I know nothing about.  But I have a Google account so I will start learning right away.

I have posted my $500 out the ATM 5 times here at ZH, once over at fofoa and emailed it to all my financially literate friends and family.

Sun, 08/01/2010 - 16:31 | 498848 merehuman
merehuman's picture

There are groups that do spontaneous things en masse. seen it but forgot names. This can be done. Be aware NSA has an eye on all of us. (ear)

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 07:22 | 497594 Chunkton
Chunkton's picture

Seems the market is well and truly rigged and a game for those that think they can outmanuever a computer. Just when you think there are limits to the crime and corruption the government endorses for its friends another one comes along.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 10:42 | 497723 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

My father-in-law was the managing partner at a large regional brokerage firm in the 50's, 60's and early 70's.  This is nothing new, folks.  The markets have always been rigged.  The digitalization of trade data just makes it easier to see. 

Do you disagree?  Please point to a time period that you believe the financial markets of the USA were not rigged. 

Sidebar: On slow summer afternoons my father-in-law would run a small trade on a stock at the very top of the (chalk) board just to get the girl wearing a skirt to climb the ladder and change the quote.  Good times...good times. 

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 11:22 | 497760 ZeroPower
ZeroPower's picture

Haha, i guess pasty faced male interns are a thing of the present :/ 

(Thanks for the illustration hh)


Sat, 07/31/2010 - 12:46 | 497838 MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

Today that gal would be going up and down the ladder several THOUSAND times per second. 

Why wear clothes?

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 17:17 | 498128 rapunzel
rapunzel's picture

speaking of ladder tricks, mine didn't quite work out, that trick i mean. fell 15 feet down. ladders are very very very dangerous.

F A I L ‡

Sun, 08/01/2010 - 12:16 | 498583 Iam Rich
Iam Rich's picture

Up a ladder and down a pole...perfect.  Where's robo, we need pics.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 07:28 | 497599 Phat Stax
Phat Stax's picture

Call me naive but print this off and send a well-written letter to Mary Shapiro, with a cc: to your congressmen and senators.  Will it do anything?  Probably not, but at least the issue will be on record....

You can't begin to hold people accountable without a record of trying.


Sat, 07/31/2010 - 07:37 | 497604 papaswamp
papaswamp's picture

The issue is on record and they know it...but the masses don't understand and don't care as long as the cable TV still works and fast food flows.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 11:27 | 497762 ZeroPower
ZeroPower's picture

Are you kidding?

About 95.4% of the people here don't understand this post.  My guess is a place like EliteTrader or maybe the Wilmott forums about 1/2 the people would understand it. Sending this to any sort of government agency unless theres a new one called 'US Dept of Quants' will simply have this mistaken for spam and be put in the trash.


Sat, 07/31/2010 - 11:53 | 497791 mark mchugh
mark mchugh's picture

Yeah, using computers to generate phony prices,  slow down Einstein...

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 12:10 | 497808 ZeroPower
ZeroPower's picture

My argument with you doesnt extend beyond the CSCO circuit breaker thread. I see no reason for your attack here, so i assume youre still bitter about your un-printed market order fill at an unfavorable price.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 12:40 | 497834 mark mchugh
mark mchugh's picture

Um, you just insulted the vast majority of readers here (about 95.4%, I think), and you're the victim?

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 13:35 | 497884 ZeroPower
ZeroPower's picture

Oh really. Are insults only supposed to be false accusations? Or do you want to tell me every person posting in this thread, you included, could explain to me what said quote stuffing is? For the record, if it wasnt for some quant friends, this post would have been over my head too. Luckily for me, i dont shy away from learning new stuff from forums, blogs, friends; anyone more knowledgeable than me. It seems like you however simply don't want to admit youre wrong on many, many topics so far. I guess it would suck to delete all those blog posts of failed info huh. Its a good thing HFT is given spotlight by places like ZH and Themis - after which ultimately the MSM catches on to.

Since youre incapable of any interesting discussion, i suggest you educated yourself with some excellent white papers and books on the markets just a quick goog search away.

Sat, 07/31/2010 - 14:49 | 497968 mark mchugh
mark mchugh's picture

Since you won't stop, yes I will explain this to you.

Our stock market has become one giant turd sandwich (that's the essence of this post).  What passes in your mind as "interesting discussion" is chattering on about the composition and nutritional value of said sandwich.  Oooh look, you found a kernel of corn!

Honestly, I don't care how much you and your "friends" know about turd sandwiches, because at the end of the day, it's still a turd sandwich your describing.  It's when you try to sell it as anything else, I've got a problem.

But please, keep refering to my posts capturing snapshots of price manipulation.  I know you and all the rest of the turd sandwich vendors would just love to see them deleted.

Your friend,


Sat, 07/31/2010 - 16:13 | 498082 ZeroPower
ZeroPower's picture

Theres too much wrong in your post to comment on it again and again so just enjoy trading in this turd sandwich, good luck.

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