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It's Official- Greek Debtor In Possession Loan Now €100-125 Billion; US Contribution To Greek Bailout: At Least $7 Billion
It's Official: Greek Bailout Expanded To €100-€120 billion over three years (40 billion a year) according to Strauss-Khan, which would eliminate Greek funding needs for the next 3 years via a primed DIP funded by Europe and the US. German contribution to be no less than €25 billion. IMF role will likely be at least €25 billion if not more. At about 20% US contribution to the IMF, the US taxpayers just got hit with a $7 billion bailout fee to make sure French and German banks don't have to Mark-to-Bankruptcy their Greek exposure. This is definitely not a done deal: Germany's SPD says they will not vote for the aid, which according to preliminary rumors will make all eurozone member states subordinate creditors to the new "DIP" facility. All those buying this rally are assuming that Germans will go quietly with the new proposal even though they threw up all over the old "only" €10 billion demand. Oh, and wait until Greeks realize what the "austerity" terms of the new IMF package are. We are sure the Greek airforce will just call in sick for the rest of the century at that point.
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What is this plan #10?
Hahahaha
Yeah, it's official until you don't hear anything for a few days.
Time to start planning Portugal because Greece is already toast.
Before responding to the virtually ubiquitous ZH poster "HarryWanger", please be aware of just whom and what you are dealing with in this person:
http://www.minyanville.com/businessmarkets/articles/AAPL-apple-gm-psycho...
His real name is James Kostorhyz, and he is here posing as a troll in dishonesty and in disregard for the fundamental purposes of this forum. He is NOT posting here in good faith, but is purposely antagonizing those with independent, anti-establishment views and opinions for his own selfish and cynical purposes, as part of a study on "the psychology of permabears".
He believes that anyone who opposes the current widespread fraud, corruption and rampant lies within our societies and governments are "utopian" and unrealistic, pollyannish dreamers.
And for those ZeroHedgers who are advocates of sound money backed by gold, this bankster shill is already out there with one of the most disingenuous, dishonest pieces of pro-establishment propaganda on the topic, expounding on how such financial integrity is "impossible", and merely "the rants of an ideological fringe":
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/The-Gold-Standard-Solid-as-minyanville-285...
Please do NOT respond to this reprehensible troll, here or anywhere else on ZeroHedge. He is NOT here in good faith, and should be shunned!
Like I said yesterday - pretty much a one day sell off and forgotten.
You are so oblivious you must be one of our "the best and the smartest" doing "God's work".
I never understand why people get so mad at him, he is trading. Eventually their will be no trade but until then "party away" Garth.
Eventually there will be less and less chairs in the game of musical chairs, until everyone is without a chair.
I think this guy used to hang around over at the Daily Reckoning. Used the same name Harry along with the same American flag.
Would stalk Bill Bonner and lambast him every time he even dared mention that there was a possibility the economy was in a depression.
When ever there was a down period in the market he would disappear, only to reapper when the market shot back up and make snide remarks on Bill Bonners articles and publish ridiculous comments about how the economoy was bouncing back because the market bounced back that day.
His favorite ploy was to ridicule Bill Bonner on days the market was up, but you never saw him post comments on down days like yesterday.
I'm amazed he hasn't taken Tyler to task for Tyler's pessimistic attitude toward the economy, the stock markets, the SEC, the Federal Reserve, the Vampire Squid, the Obama administration, pure unadulterated evil, and the corrupt politicians running this serfdom.
He's nothing more than a pollyanna cheerleading the supposedly resurging economy and markets and he probably originates right out of Cass Sunsteins propaganda war room, eh Comrade Goebbles.
Well, all I am saying is cycles within cycles so you will be able to trade until there is no trade.
If he is saying there is a such thing as an infinite up cycle well on that I would say he is a retard.
He is free to trade while the credit market is slowly collapsing. I for one expected huge bounces and huge falls.
+1
I don't think so, unless the trading day ends at 10:00am today.
You also said S&P wouldn't close under 1200.
+1 "Her Angry War". I love you Harry! Keep up the positive stuff!
I have noticed since the fall of 2008, when our fiat money syetem started to unravel, that certain people I knew would argue vehemently against my explanations of the unfolding crisis.
It seemed strange at the time. Several different unrelated people would become very angry during discussions about the inherent flaws in our fiat money. This wasn't a normal disagreement about theory when someone would refute your argument with their views and then ignore you. This was serious anger.
I have finally come to the conclusion that people who place their trust in the money systems of this world are actually very scared and that fear sometimes reveals itself as anger.
It is much better in the long run to seek the truth and face reality than to get mad at the truth.
The lie is their comfortable blanket... their Snuggie if you will.
They will defend it until the end. If everyone believed what you did, the system would crease to exist this second.
Morpheus : You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to
be unplugged. And many of them are so inert, so hopelessly
dependant on the system, that they will fight to protect it.
Were you listening to me, Neo? Or were you looking at the
woman in the red dress?
........
Morpheus : No. It's another program, designed to teach you one thing :
If you are not one of us, you are one of them.
Neo looks at the frozen agent.
Was one of your friends Karl Douchinger?
Doesn't the Doche believe you can just let the bad ones go under and the rest will just some how magically survive?
They don't call them a death spiral for nothing.
Yep...seems to believe we can just "default" and everything will be fine.
The basis of all negative emotions is fear. Fear = anger
Yeah but not all things are emotion, sometimes they are facts that people interupt as emotion.
So if my kids spill kool aid all over the couch, I am actually afraid??? Learn somethin new every day around here
Good trick question. Depends, if it makes you so angry you beat your kid, it quickly turns to fear when child services rocks up at the door.
And where do you get your data Mr. HarryWanker?
"all in sick for the rest of the century"
You can do that?! That's like 7 days weekends like FOREVER?!
WOW
Trichet says absolutely necessary we decide very rapidly...
um, yeah and how long have you been trying to decide rapidly?
"Hurry and make up your mind, because I have several other buyers lined up if you don't want it."
Yes, where have I heard this before... Give us billions, now, or the world will end. We will hammer out all the details later.
A common bond market for eurozone countries would solve most of the problems Europe currently face, yields spread, contagions risks etc
would give Greece, Spain, Italy the keys for further milking unsuspecting creditors
Sure, but if the common bond market comes with Stability Pact reform (automatic penalties for extensive deficits, better data verifying, kick-out possibility for laggards etc), than, in medium term, eurozone would become structuraly healthier and probably also slimmer (without some current southern countries)
Tyler
I'm confused by why you always say the money in the IMF comes from US taxpayers
I thought ALL banks create loans out of thin air
thus maybe the us tax payer is only on the line when the loan defaults or am I missing something?
US contributes 17% of IMF funds, so of course it´s nonsense to claim that IMF bailout equals US bailout. Actually, european countries contribute more than the US.
http://www.imf.org/external/np/sec/memdir/members.htm
+1
About time someone mentioned this on ZH
FINALLY I am starting to hear about Greece, etc. here in Italy. I guess they now know that for awhile at least they get to help Greece...
are you serious? so media sux everywhere?
Silvarouvres
Been brought up here before, you just missed it.
Why should US taxpayers give even a single penny to Grease? The Frog banks shouold take it in the shorts. Its a Euro"peon" Union - let them unite and hold hands as they jump off the cliff. I shoose not to particpate.
US taxpayers? European tax payers? By what miracle?
I am certain that somebody can manage to show that US/European tax payers money is involved in some sort of way but presenting US/European tax money in that obvious way is fraudulous.
+10
You are not missing a thing.
Stop saying it's the US taxpayer. It's Uncle Ben's printing press.
Great point! Keep those computers chugging and keep the free money coming!
Providing electricity to keep up computers is one of the few ways US tax payers money is involved in the business.
Maybe even not. Maybe the bill is paid with emitted credits.
Ok, lets start another 3 week campaign upward baby!!! no volume-march towards 36,000
There will be a lot of Californians asking why they cannot get a similar deal.
The 50 states already got that deal. It was the 787B stimulus
Are you referring to the 16% of the workforce currently enjoying a Greek retirement?
"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself the accomplice of liars and forgers" Charles Peguy
Do we wake up one day when "fiat currency" is declared worthless? Is that how this ends? Otherwise, I see no sign of resolution and we keep playing this "YO YO CHARADE".
It ends for a lot of people when fiat money doesn't buy enough oil to keep all of them fed. They'll work very hard to keep it from becoming worthless, but it may not be worth "enough."
Then, "Blood on the Streets".
Bingo, give this man a cigar. Until fiat currencies are recognized as worthless this charade will continue. All else is noise.
never declared, but when you are using a wheelbarrow of cash for a loaf of bread, its pretty much dead.
there aren't going to be any austerity measures, the whole thing was a sham. They will spend the money until it is gone, and the same thing will repeat itself in twenty years, long after anyone remembers that this all happened before.
As soon as it looked like that banks might go down, the bailouts were made. because of the derivitives web, no major international banks will be allowed to fail. EVER. I hope you all made a killing selling CDS into the slide.
The united states has decided it will bail out the world at 6% interest on money we borrow from china at 1.4%. I'll only say it once. Told ya so.
and this DOES soothe the markets
how gullibel is the market?
How many times have we heard about this non bailout. Its confimred, oh no its not, yes it is, oh no its not
its like a sick pantomime
They are trying to keep the plates spinning
Surely the Air Force can be outsourced like Europe's ferry crews. Philipinos and Nigerians are cheap.
Seriously, this means class war in Greece, in which the most peaceful outcome would be to elect a Communist government and simply repudiate the debt. Barring that, shooting war once a bit of time passes to get organized.
What's hard to disentangle is the impact of public corruption vs. generosity to workers. Some would argue that this is the same thing I suppose. But to me it seems that the elites thought to buy off the working class and there's not enough candy to go around. Now it is escalating, instead of shared pain there will be war if the IMF heavies do their typical year's work.
A great shame, a lovely country destroyed by greed and lack of simple (2,000 years of irony here) POLITICAL abilities.
Is Portugal contributing to the bailout?
They will need it themselves in a few days
I gues then Greece chips in with a bailout for Portugal
what chirade
It's a cycle jerk... I lend to you, then you lend it back to me... there that will work. :)
Hope they are lining up the ATMs because Portugal, Italy, Spain, and Ireland will be waiting.
If I were Greece, I would agree to make cuts, take the money, spend it and not cut a thing. There is no difference between this plan and all the other plans. I lost count of the plans to be honest.
+1, that is the plan.
Anyone that doesn't think that's the plan is a moron.
smells a lot like kiting doesn't it...the only thing missing are the checks!
Why only 110B??
Why not ELEVENTY HUNDRED BILLION?
+1, My personal number is a gazillion... it's just a ballpark estimate though.
Mako
I think its more Like Madoff lending to Ponzi and then Ponzi lending back to Madeoff
I guess the next phase will be known not as sub prime but as sub sovereign.
If you give a Piig a loan you may as well call it a hand out. No way is this 100 billion going to be paid back
No, call it "Sub Crime"! And,,, of course they'll pay it back just like GM claims it paid its loans back. By drawing from another free pile of doo doo shit FIAT Crap!
Greece has a giant pile of debt it cannot servive/pay back. So what do we do? Well, we make the debt pile waaaaay bigger. Do these morons trully believe that Greece will be able to service this even larger debt in 3 years? I understand bullishness and confidence, but this is fucking insanity.
Look; it's really this simple.
The growth system is dead. We can't grow, the Era is over.
So right now they are kicking the can with even more debt until and unless people lose total faith in the currency. Then shit will implode overnight.
But there is no alternative. Nobody wants to admit that Growth is over. This is hailmary can-kicking and wishing that Deus Ex Machina will bail us out.
As long as confidence in the paper does not wane totally, they can extend and buy more time. A massive, massive reset is coming in the way "things are done" and I don't see how wars don't erupt as a result.
espcicially in europe/japan with AWFUL demographics
Their plan is just to spread the risk. The problem is, there is too much risk in the Eurozone for the surplus members (France, Germany) to bear. In addition, giving shitty governments more money doesn't ensure that they use it properly.
there aren't enough "shells" to hide this under, there never were, and that's the core of the problem. No one is solvent enough to absorb the problem without themselves becoming insolvent...this is what happens when everyone is excessively levered.
well we all get the situation perfectly how come
the rest of the market and population in general doesn't? I have mentioned to many people that it is MATHEMATICALLY impossible to recover from this in the present system and people look at me as I'm crazy and I wouldn't class myself as a genius at all