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It's Official: Iran Says It Will Send 2 Warships Through Suez Canal

Tyler Durden's picture





 

After nothing happened last night, following Egypt's statement that it had not received a request to allow Iranian warships through the canal, PressTV has just announced that an Iran Navy official says the 2 warships are in fact on their way to the Canal and will pass shortly. Per Reuters, "the Iran state TV says Egypt sees nothing wrong with passage of Iranian warships through Suez Canal." The vessels in question are the Alvand frigate and the Kharg, a supply vessel.

Photo of the Alvand:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c3/IS_Alvand_%28F-71%29_1977.jpg

Look for kneejerk reaction in crude.

Some more perspectives from Information Dissemination:

The two Iranian ships are the corvette Alvand and supply ship Kharg, both pictured in this blog post. The Alvand
is the flagship of the Iranian Navy. Displacing around 1,500 tons, the
ship comes armed with 4 C-802 anti-ship missiles, a 4.5in gun, torpedo
launchers, and various smaller machine guns and mortars. The US Navy has
seen this class of ship before, in battle. During Operation Preying
Mantis in 1988, the Iranian corvette Sabalan was left paralyzed and on fire from a 500 lb bomb from an A-6, while another pair of A-6s crippled the Sahand where she later sunk southwest of Larak Island following a Harpoon strike from the USS Joseph Strauss (DDG-16). For the sake of symmetry, I'll note the A-6s involved in Operation Preying Mantis that slapped around the sister ships of Alvand were from the VA-95 "Green Lizards" and flown off none other than the USS Enterprise (CVN 65).

The Iranian flagship Alvand
is not a naval threat to anyone in the region, and is not why Israel is
raising concern. The ship has terrible anti-air capabilities that are
no match against the capabilities of the Egyptian Air Force, the Royal
Saudi Air Force, the Israeli Air Force, or Carrier Air Wing One on the
USS Enterprise (CVN 65). While the media portrayal of the Iranian Navy
near the Suez is one of distressing concern, the reality is that
corvette represents the biggest regional target at sea for thousands of
nautical miles. The media may describe the presence of the Iranian
corvette in the context of doubt, fear, and concern; but given Israel's
outrage and tendency to be trigger happy - allow me to suggest the
scariest place to be in the Red Sea today is anywhere near that ship. I
note the irony between how the news narrative represents a complete
disconnect between perception and reality.

Speaking of Israeli concern, assuming it is legitimate and not parochial; it likely has to do with the supply ship Kharg and not the corvette Alvand.

The supply ship Kharg is much more interesting. The Kharg
is the largest ship in the Iranian Navy displacing around 33,000 tons
and is a modified Olwen class fast fleet tanker. This is a big ship, and
with the current tensions between Israel and Hezbollah,
Israel is likely very concerned about what the ship is carrying. As a
Navy ship rather than a commercial ship, the ship will not be searched
for cargo so the concern by the Israeli's is that the ship could carry
weapons to Syria where weapons can be unloaded and sent to Lebanon.
There are rumors that go back several years that the Kharg has been often been observed in the Gulf of Aden delivering weapons from Iran to destinations like Eritrea and the Sudan.

If you follow the Wikileaks cables you will note that this known arms
smuggling connection between Iran and Eritrea was how the Government of
Yemen believed the Houthis were being armed, although the cables
actually reveal that is not how the Houthis are being armed based on
different intelligence.

Are the Israeli's being paranoid? Probably not. The Kharg
is the best choice of vessel to move substantial arms from Iran to
Hezbollah quickly and without harassment. It is around 2,150nm from
Bandar Abbas, Iran to Jeddah, Saudi Arabia - where these Iranian ships made port
last week. While I understand that a little corvette might have to make
stops every few thousand nautical miles - even a corvette with the
range of the Alvand - why does a fast fleet tanker like Kharg need a fill up after only a few thousand miles travel?

Probably because the tanker is carrying more than fuel.

What To Do

The
Israeli's can get trigger happy in a hurry, so I have no idea what they
will do. However, I noted with interest that PJ Crowley described the
US position on the presence of the Iranian ships approaching the Suez
Canal as one of "curiosity." OK, I buy that, I'm certainly curious as
well. But the real question is what if anything should the United States
do?

Well, if you are the US it depends if you think the Israel
will attack the ships. If you do think Israel is going to get trigger
happy, we should do nothing. However, if the US does not believe the
Israeli's are going to attack the Iranian ships, this is what I believe
the US should do.

It is more than a little disturbing to me that a
~1,500 ton Iranian corvette built in 1971 with 4 ASMs and no air
defenses escorted by an old oil tanker can send the price of US oil up 1.8%
for simply sailing on the ocean. Iran just significantly shifted an
economic market in the US with a piece of shit corvette even though the
USS Enterprise (CVN 65) was literally right there. Think about that a
second...

An increase of 1.8% comes to $.67 per bbl of oil, and
the United States uses 21,000,000 bbls of oil per day. That means that
through soft power presence alone the Iranian Navy flagship, which by
every modern naval standard is nothing more than a ~1,500 ton unrated
corvette with a questionably trained crew and supported an old tanker,
and yet the Iranian Navy just sent a $14 million shiver down the spine
of the energy economy of the United States. To add insult to injury,
that bump in oil cost could potentially sustain itself for several days
while the Iranian Navy operates in that region.

How do we
reconcile the ability of an Iranian corvette half way around the world
to influence a US economic market with the rhetoric by the United States
Navy leadership who attempts to link US naval power with US economy?
How can observers not draw the conclusion that investors in this country
have lost all association with American naval power and the
sustainability of regional peace when an Iranian corvette can make this
kind of economic impact while operating right next to a US aircraft
carrier strike group? Investors in the US oil futures market must not
even associate US naval power as a deterrent to economic disruption when
oil shoots up 1.8% based on presence alone, and in this case the US
naval power present is a carrier strike group. Is this a matter of
stupidity or ignorance on the part of the investors, or does this say
something about the US Navy's ability to articulate it's own value to
the nation?

So, clearly the Navy has a communication problem...
How can the US Navy address this? Well, if I was given 5-star rank for a
day I would sail my Arleigh Burke class destroyer along side the
Iranian Navy flagship for a "wave and hello" and take a photograph of
the two ships side by side while underway. I realize that strategic
communication is a forgotten, and perhaps lost art in the US Navy, but
if you put a photograph on Navy.mil with the two warships in near
proximity that illustrates the sheer size difference between the
flagship of the Iranian Navy and a US Navy Arleigh Burke class
destroyer, I will predict that the unofficial PASSEX is worth several
thousand words to a great many reporters and Americans while also being a
photograph worth about $14 million in savings to the US energy economy a
day.

 


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Thu, 02/17/2011 - 09:48 | Link to Comment Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

There are only two types of ships:
Fast Attack submarines, and targets.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 09:52 | Link to Comment papaswamp
papaswamp's picture

Spoken like a true bubblehead..

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 09:56 | Link to Comment Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Qualified on 688s.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 10:13 | Link to Comment jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

i'm not sure what a 688 is, possibly some kind of water craft, but it doesn't much matter.  the u.s. does not have global geostrategic advantage at this point.  any additional trouble of any sort (and the recent double murder of pakistani intelligence officers with the u.s. shooter in their custody doesn't help) will make "our" overextension and lack of strategic reserve more apparent.  see below for if they're sunk in the canal, if iran decides to destabilize iraq (further), or somehow do anything to raise the price of oil (which with parabolic money supply and the growing realization of overstated saudi reserves and pumping capacity wants to go up).  it ain't all "battleship". 

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 10:15 | Link to Comment Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

So, if we just destroy Iran in nuclear fire, problem solved?

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 10:57 | Link to Comment Azannoth
Azannoth's picture

No but, It would solve 10x more problems by doing that to Israel

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 11:06 | Link to Comment tmosley
tmosley's picture

1000 more problems created, some of which will be nuclear armed themselves, with submarines.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 11:13 | Link to Comment Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Only the Soviets mattered. Europe is no longer anything but brown water sailors.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 11:14 | Link to Comment caconhma
caconhma's picture

You fking Zionists and their American lackeys are driving America to a nuclear Holocaust. Do you really want to see millions of Americans dead? Do you fking idiots think it will be without terrible retributions to America and its people?

It will not be very pretty with nightmarish consequences for you warmongers.

As for Iranians, any military provocation/confrontation against Iran will be welcome by their leaders helping unite Iranian people and squash any internal decent.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 11:17 | Link to Comment Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Obama stood around with his thumb in his ass during the Green Revolution, and Iran squashed all dissent, and rather brutally. What's the diff?

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 10:32 | Link to Comment Rick Masters
Rick Masters's picture

The U.S. controls the world: its oceans, its atmosphere, its resources. The only thing anyone has on us is the Chinese with their geographic luck of sitting on all the world's REEs. We are basically a soft power. If we so desired, we could make the world tremble with absolute fear. The only reason we are overextended is cause of our lack of a conscript army. That can be solved with one executive order.  Peopl forget here and elsewhere that even though we are in debt and have big deficits we also have 10s of trillions in assets. The end is nowhere near. If the economic seas become rougher, and people are deprived of their cable (and I love cable) and other luxuries, and war ensues, We will win. I don't see who could defeat us. Well maybe Chna will send their Navy to invade us. Oh wait they dont have a Navy of any respectable size.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 10:50 | Link to Comment Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

1. The US Navy is the undisputed lord of its domain. That is @72% of the Earth's surface. And any beach you care to name.

2. Selective Service, Bitches. All y'all who took student loans should remember that.

3. I keep telling folks they would hate it if the US became a real empire.

4. A real empire would kill your armies, take your stuff, AND exact tribute.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 14:50 | Link to Comment kaiten
kaiten's picture

"US Navy is the undisputed lord of its domain"

 

Somali pirates didnt get the memo, it seems ...

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 15:12 | Link to Comment Rick Masters
Rick Masters's picture

Pirates took over a US navy ship! Oh wait no they didn't. Did you ever notice how there has only been one US merchant ship hijacked. Maybe it's cause we killed all the pirates except for one and then sent him to the depths of the federal penal system: probably Florence, Colo. Super Max.

Fri, 02/18/2011 - 07:45 | Link to Comment jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

a draft would be an absolute sure sign of the endgame.  didn't work at all well last time and we were far more naive.  

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 11:02 | Link to Comment chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Feel free to go fight this war on your own.  I'm sure you'll be happy to offer up any children you managed to conceive as fodder for the cause.  Good luck with it.  We'll maybe put up a memorial of you somewhere.  Perhaps right next to the one we erected for General Custer.

I am Chumbawamba.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 11:48 | Link to Comment Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

Native americans won the battle at Little Big Horn but lost the war. Was that the point you were trying to make, deadbeat? lulz.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 12:55 | Link to Comment chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

I guess I was making the point that you're as irrelevant as Ariel Sharon and that your mother was likely a crack whore.  Yep, bingo:

http://www.pornpornmovies.com/0391-5023-beat-down-junkie-whore-tells-her...

I'd be a sad junkie, too, if I had to fuck your father to conceive you.

I am Chumbawamba.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 12:57 | Link to Comment chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

P.S. Ask any of the palefaces who spend all day feeding nickels into a slot machine at an Indian casino who won the war.

And by the way, thanks for covering my tax liability.  Are you also going to contribute a dollar towards the general election fund?

I am Chumbawambhahahahahahaha.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 13:28 | Link to Comment chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

That's all you can do?  Junk me?  Talk about lack of personal empowerment.

Sad.

I am Chumbawamba.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 13:41 | Link to Comment Arthor Bearing
Arthor Bearing's picture

I really enjoyed all of those posts, but I junked you just for the thrill of it

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 13:53 | Link to Comment chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Ah, thanks!

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 14:08 | Link to Comment Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

You seem upset, flim flam. All those creditor lawsuits and upcoming trials must be wearing on you. Still, I'm touched that you took time away from grifting your creditors to reply to my message. I look forward to many more laughs at your expense, unless they won't let you post from Club Fed. :)

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 14:11 | Link to Comment chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Seriously, is that all you got?

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 14:15 | Link to Comment Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

Isn't there a game of three card monte somewhere with your name on it, shady?

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 14:47 | Link to Comment chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Dude, you're a fricking zionist.  What makes you think anything you say matters?

Fri, 02/18/2011 - 07:48 | Link to Comment jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

as the berlin wall's demise was the foreshadow of the ussr's demise, so too the breakup of the middle east autocratic/u.s. petrodollar/zionist entity protectorate.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 11:03 | Link to Comment nicholforest
nicholforest's picture

The US controls:

the world - hmm - no!

the oceans - hmm - no!

the atmosphere - hmm no!

the resources - hmm no!

These are complex, dynamical systems and as such completely out of any control. The desire to control such things is simply a delusion of power and will only hasten the already precipitate decline of the American empire.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 12:21 | Link to Comment Rick Masters
Rick Masters's picture

If the U.S. goes back to the Monroe Doctrine, the world would beg us to return and all you have to do is look at who would fill the vacuum: China. How do they behave? Poorly is the answer. Just ask the workers who demanded better wages in Angola and were shot.

Also, to say we don't control the sea is, imho, absurd. You can use some abstract argument that no one can and I get it but we are the world's foremost naval power. So, if it aint us then who? And I meant the atmosphere as in we have the world's best air force. I don't want the U.S. to be an empire by any stratch and BTW, I did try and join the army but i had a medical condition at the time that precluded me from joining. If I was called up, I would serve.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 14:14 | Link to Comment Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

"If the U.S. goes back to the Monroe Doctrine, the world would beg us to return and all you have to do is look at who would fill the vacuum: China"

 

Beg us to return? NOT.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 14:37 | Link to Comment andybev01
andybev01's picture

I think that you meant to say that the US controls other nations access to and use of, the seas.

Some people are waaaaaay to literal.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 15:16 | Link to Comment Rick Masters
Rick Masters's picture

That is what I meant. I try to add a bit of nuance and flare to my posts and hope that people take sarcasm as sarcasm and take bold statements, like the I made, as having some nuance behind it. I don't mean we own the seas or some such garbage. And yes, the world begs us to do something everythime something bad happens to the poster above. I guess you're not American though. Not saying you're unamerican saying you send like your from a different country by your words.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 15:16 | Link to Comment Rick Masters
Rick Masters's picture

That is what I meant. I try to add a bit of nuance and flare to my posts and hope that people take sarcasm as sarcasm and take bold statements, like the I made, as having some nuance behind it. I don't mean we own the seas or some such garbage. And yes, the world begs us to do something everythime something bad happens to the poster above. I guess you're not American though. Not saying you're unamerican saying you send like your from a different country by your words.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 15:16 | Link to Comment Rick Masters
Rick Masters's picture

That is what I meant. I try to add a bit of nuance and flare to my posts and hope that people take sarcasm as sarcasm and take bold statements, like the I made, as having some nuance behind it. I don't mean we own the seas or some such garbage. And yes, the world begs us to do something everythime something bad happens to the poster above. I guess you're not American though. Not saying you're unamerican saying you send like your from a different country by your words.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 15:01 | Link to Comment kaiten
kaiten's picture

"If the U.S. goes back to the Monroe Doctrine, the world would beg us to return...."

 

So you prefer US bakrupting itself while policing the world. Uhm, yes, that makes sense.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 16:03 | Link to Comment Rick Masters
Rick Masters's picture

Did I say that? Uh, no. I didn't. I said the world wouldn't like it and would soon find out they need us more than we need them. But, ys, i think we should trade with other countries and protect our interests where necessary. bases in germany. get rid of em. bases in Djhibouti. keep em.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 11:18 | Link to Comment Pants McPants
Pants McPants's picture

Except that this mighty, mighty war machine you speak of is incapable of holding a narrow strip of land in Baghdad.  Not to mention it is bogged down in Afghanistan in another unwinnable situation.

Could the US bomb everyone into obscurity?  Sure.  But what would that solve?  Nothing...outside of giving a few pro-military jackasses on this site a military boner.

Why would any nation fight the US on a traditional battlefield when asymmetric warfare is a proven success?

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 12:13 | Link to Comment A tumor named Marla
A tumor named Marla's picture

Mis-assumption -- the incapability you mentioned is not a military issue.

Our issues in Iraq and Afghanistan are the result of trying to force the military to do what it should NOT be doing -- namely, "nation-building" and reconstruction of a war zone.  If we took the gloves off our military and allowed it to do its job (kill people and break things, which leads to domination of the local population), there would be an enforced peace overnight in both sandboxes.

By tying our hands together via political correctness and inappropriate missions, our military has no chance, and the desired outcome has odds greatly stacked against it.

If we allowed the Marines to go kick ass and create some order without having to worry about DC bureaucrats bringing them up on charges, the MidEast changes forever.  Until then, we have a waffling policy that serves no one and unnecessarily exposes our fine military personnel to injury, stress, and death.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 12:23 | Link to Comment Rick Masters
Rick Masters's picture

Thank you TMC, those are my sentiments precisely. If we wanted to, we coulda wiped out those insurgents in a flash. But D.C. put shackle on our soldiers and our military.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 13:30 | Link to Comment Pants McPants
Pants McPants's picture

LOL. Seriously? 

Does the phrase "cutting off your nose to spite your face" mean anything to you jackasses?

So there's no downside to carpet bombing the Middle East?  (hint: ME contains a valuable resource upon which the US 'economy' depends)

Man if only the bureaurcracy would remove the shackles that prevents the US from killing thousands of people - THEN we'd win the war!

Time for a cold shower, guys.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 13:52 | Link to Comment A tumor named Marla
A tumor named Marla's picture

A.  calling names is juvenile and has no place in serious discussion -- grow up.

B.  no mention was made to downside of carpet bombing anything.  The challenge was to the statement about military ineffectiveness, not the good/bad of being there at all. 

The point is that our failures in Iraq/Afghanistan are not from military weakness or inability to deliver force -- look back at the invasions where we cut through their best defenses like a laser through butter.  If we were to cut all roads, rails, bridges, and airstrips in and out of major cities while bombing the daylights out of the capital and having boots at the borders, the nonsense would stop.

If we're going to be there, we need to flex and conquer.  Being there in our current mode is the reason for the ineffectiveness in your original post.  Frankly, I agree that we shouldn't be there -- should have pulled out long ago.  However, we ARE there, placed by a Republican president and continued by a Democrat president.  To not allow our military to dominate is a crime to all concerned.

 

 

 

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 14:20 | Link to Comment Pants McPants
Pants McPants's picture

Re-read my earlier comment.  No one is disputing US military superiority.

So...since we're there we "might as well" let the military do what it does: flex and conquer?  But you think the US shouldn't be there?

Sorry, but I don't follow.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 14:46 | Link to Comment A tumor named Marla
A tumor named Marla's picture

Your first statement disputed US military superiority.

Dunno about you, but there have been plenty of situations in my life that "shouldn't have" been present, but the only choice is to work through it and succeed as best you can given the circumstances.  That is the situation we are in in Iraq/Afghanistan -- I disagree strongly that we went in (I will admit to supporting at the time but that is another discussion).  Once we were in, the choice was to either dominate militarily (empire, takeover) or garrison places/people that were not defeated sufficiently in the invasion phase.  The garrison was further hamstrung by Byzantine rule of engagement, UN/DC prosecutions of soldiers, and general media hostility to the entire exercise (whipping up the populace into a false outrage).

Make sense now?  We shouldn't be there.  However we are.  The choices are success (dominate) or failure (status quo); I'll take success, please.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 15:02 | Link to Comment Pants McPants
Pants McPants's picture

No, you make no sense.  Hence my calling you a jackass.  

But hey, the "aww shucks" approach to US militarism is all the rage.  What's a few (hundred thousand) dead brown people and a bankrupt empire anyway?  Your ethnocentrism is appalling.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 15:06 | Link to Comment A tumor named Marla
A tumor named Marla's picture

Predictably, the name-calling is back.  See ya.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 15:09 | Link to Comment Snake
Snake's picture

To conquer and/or to dominate ... is one thing.  Holding power is different, I think.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 15:37 | Link to Comment A tumor named Marla
A tumor named Marla's picture

Agreed -- I was taking exception to the "our military can't hold a strip of sand" comment.

We cannot realistically hold power at this time because we have not quelled the population and established that we are running the show.  Leadership was handed to the Iraqis before they were ready, and now there is a huge confused mess, with no one really in charge and US soldiers getting snuffed every day.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 15:06 | Link to Comment kaiten
kaiten's picture

"If we took the gloves off our military and allowed it to do its job (kill people and break things, which leads to domination of the local population), there would be an enforced peace overnight in both sandboxes."

 

Soviet Union killed people* and broke things and they lost the afghan war. Same for US in Vietnam. What you say is nonsense.

 

* it´s estimated they killed 1million afghanis

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 15:48 | Link to Comment A tumor named Marla
A tumor named Marla's picture

The Soviets lost Afgahnistan partially because they had serious issues with disease breaking out amongst their troops and were never at 100% effective.  At the time, their government was also in the process of beginning to topple over due to their own unmanageable communist society and the US began to spend them into obilivion.

The afghanis did not win that war; the Soviets lost it.

Again, not caused directly by military weakness -- the decimated forces were certainly a factor, but political and economic facets were the reason they lost.

Anytime a nation sets out to invade another for any reason, success requires a clearly stated goal, executed by competent leaders and soldiers, with the support of the citizens and should be undertaken MOST reluctantly, under the idea that there is literally no other option -- war is a horrible event that is nonetheless part of the human condition and is occasionally necessary.  It also tends to backfire badly if not handled correctly -- any history book is filled with examples. 

This business of going in under fuzzy circumstances, around the constitution, with no real plan after the target gov't is toppled, is a lock for confusion and failure.  The military is more than capable of doing its mission; it is the civilian "leadership" and lack of attention and/or misleading information from media sources that cut the legs out from our armed forces.  Worrying about PR in the target country is way down on the list in terms of effectiveness, but it gets placed very high by modern leaders -- bad idea that gets in the way of the business of doing what is necessary.  

The lessons of Viet Nam being ignored is EXACTLY at the heart of this discussion -- another war that the US won from a military standpoint but lost politically due to a lack of will in leadership.  The Soviets didn't heed the lesson and it cost them Afghanistan.  We have never heeded the lesson since, and now we find ourselves entangled in conflicts that we either should stay away from or get in with determination and win.

I think Hiroshima, Berlin, and Paris would all like a word with both of your ID's regarding what happens when someone comes in and whips you so badly that you have no alternative but to bend to their will.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 18:02 | Link to Comment naughtius maximus
naughtius maximus's picture

If you have no intentions of winning then why fight?

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 12:23 | Link to Comment Batty Koda
Batty Koda's picture

Or just use nukes.

China has plenty of spare meatbags to sacrifice, Russia has a fairly decentralised population apat from a few big cities like Moscow which have extensive networks of bunkers. These bunkers are so big they contain industrial equiptment to sustain the war effort after the initial bombardment.

So lets not start WW3 shall we.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 12:42 | Link to Comment Rick Masters
Rick Masters's picture

How do you know that the Chinese and Russian ICBMs will work and not blow up in their silos? But in any event, if you're speaking to me, I am not advocating any war; I'm simply saying we are and will remain the dominant military power for the next decade. After that, UGH!

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 14:21 | Link to Comment Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

Our military is into drugs and oil, hell they even sent Botanist over to inspect the Poppy fields, and to make recommendations on how to increase production.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbIFmPBsN7Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dR3EZq1TKU8

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 14:28 | Link to Comment Rusty Shorts
Thu, 02/17/2011 - 15:09 | Link to Comment kaiten
kaiten's picture

They also have SLBMs. Lots of them.

Fri, 02/18/2011 - 14:02 | Link to Comment Batty Koda
Batty Koda's picture

.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 12:25 | Link to Comment Rick Masters
Rick Masters's picture

Could you list some xamples, not exceptions, of the proven successes of assymetric warfare.  I can think of one that is tactical. But name one strategic success this type of warfare has had in this century. Thanks.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 18:04 | Link to Comment naughtius maximus
naughtius maximus's picture

Vietnam?

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 14:37 | Link to Comment creviceCaress
creviceCaress's picture

 

 

eh?...."we" are over there to win?......oh

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 11:45 | Link to Comment MolotovCockhead
MolotovCockhead's picture

Did you hear that the US military pay off the Taliban so that they could continue to pretend that they are doing good there. So much for being in control!

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 11:50 | Link to Comment Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

We have civilian control. Kind of like muzzling your pit bull before sending it off to fight.

Eventually we will get a commander in chief who is not a piece of shit.

The only order given will be kill them, and come home.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 12:13 | Link to Comment ExpendableOne
ExpendableOne's picture

Aye!

Send all the damn JAG officers to Thule Greenland for the duration.  Then tell the Army and Marines to get it done.  No questions asked, no quarter given.  Just kill until there's nothing left.

We are not so much at war as we are attempting to use an Army to do police work.  I'd also add that we should require ALL congressional dependants to be drafted into active combat units.  Then if we go to war, it will be quick, brutal and over.  None of this sending someone elses progeny off as canon fodder while quibling over who they shoot in a war zone.  

Kill them all, let Al Jazzera figure it out....

 

 

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 13:32 | Link to Comment Pants McPants
Pants McPants's picture

Well what are you waiting for?  Sign up!  Go fight, pillage, bomb, murder, to your heart's content.

Wait, you don't want to volunteer?  You'd rather be a keyboard killer?

That's what a thought.

Coward.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 13:36 | Link to Comment I Told YOU So
I Told YOU So's picture

What an incredibly IDIOTIC attitude, its people like you that keep feeding the lunatic people in charge in the US with grandiose ideas of "Invincibility", i take it back you're not an idiot YOU ARE A MORON>

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 14:33 | Link to Comment JR
JR's picture

The U.S. defense budget (or the war department budget as it used to be called before political correctness) is larger than the military budgets of the next 14 nations ranked below it.  In spite of its shock and awe failures, the U.S. continues to use military threats to keep its puppet governments in control over their citizens.  Oh wait…that is not working.  Egypt, Tunisia, Yemen, Libya, Bahrain…seem less impressed with shock and awe as the weeks of 2011 roll by.  If we have learned anything from watching Al Jezeera, it is that the “we can conquer the world” motto of the Dick Cheneys is not going to work.

With all its military might, the United States has never been weaker.  And the reason?  It has turned its back on its founding princiiple of... Liberty.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 16:30 | Link to Comment sushi
sushi's picture

the United States has never been weaker.  And the reason?  It has turned its back on its founding princiiple of... Liberty.

 

Add in rule of law which is essential to Liberty and its + 3600.

 

Otherwise its just Mad-Max-Men fighting over bits of pretty glass.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 16:40 | Link to Comment Shrimp Head
Shrimp Head's picture

we were less imperialistic when we had a "war department" - oh, the irony

Fri, 02/18/2011 - 00:29 | Link to Comment pslater
pslater's picture

 "the u.s. does not have global geostrategic advantage at this point."

Are u kidding me?  What are two carrier strike forces within a few hundred miles?  These two carrier strike forces are capable of wiping out ALL Muslim Mideast airforces in a matter of hours.  Rule the air and you rule the battle.....of course with Obummer being a Muslim, I doubt the oder will ever be given.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 10:12 | Link to Comment papaswamp
papaswamp's picture

LA Class...nice!

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 10:28 | Link to Comment Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

And I was just a "damned rider."

Submariners are good people. Warped, but good people.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 10:03 | Link to Comment eigenvalue
eigenvalue's picture

Hopefully the two ships are still in good condition after years of US sanctions. Otherwise if they sank in the canal,  we would face more trouble...

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 10:58 | Link to Comment Azannoth
Azannoth's picture

That would be the best strategy, to have a small accident in the Canal and plug it for a few weeks :) good thinking

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 10:07 | Link to Comment quintago
Thu, 02/17/2011 - 10:13 | Link to Comment mtomato2
mtomato2's picture

Good link.  What say you, Tyler?

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 11:09 | Link to Comment just_looking
just_looking's picture

you have old news.  scheduled yesterday, cancelled, then on again today.  It is a go as of now.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 10:38 | Link to Comment BobPaulson
BobPaulson's picture

Depends on your objective. In terms of fighting at sea, agreed. No defence against them and hard to hit em.

In terms of strategic extension of power, the attack subs haven't done much other than lay there waiting for the day to be used.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 11:29 | Link to Comment bankonzhongguo
bankonzhongguo's picture

Sadly the Suez Canal Authority operates as an open waterway for all parties even during times of war between those parties.  This includes Israeli ships as much as Iranian ships, regardless of maritime maneuvers.

This is more hysterical Israeli press to keep the blind retarded 800 lbs Amerikan gorilla on a lease.

Remember the USS Liberty.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 12:13 | Link to Comment critical_mass_soon
critical_mass_soon's picture

you mean like the chinese one that fired a missile off the west coast of the US not to long ago?

yes people that was a chinese sub with a warning shot for the administration to respect chinese terratorial waters. but according to all media networks in the US that reported on it, it was an explained phenomenon and made to be some sort of prank.....it does trully amaze me!

Well anyways im sorted! got my bullion and crossbow! bring it!

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 12:27 | Link to Comment Rick Masters
Rick Masters's picture

Could you provide some insight beyond conjecture on how you know it was the Chinese? I mean I have had my moments were I think it was them but the explanation by the military was pretty thorough. Also, why were the no witnesses?

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 13:19 | Link to Comment critical_mass_soon
critical_mass_soon's picture

sure have a listen, it interesting from about 3.20 in the timeline.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gNlrDeRcMk

there is so much that we don't know and won't know, also in my view there is no such thing as a leak its intentional, its all about perception.

 

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 09:50 | Link to Comment AN0NYM0US
AN0NYM0US's picture

pressTV??? the Iranian CNN

 

http://www.presstv.ir/live/llnw/

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 09:49 | Link to Comment I think I need ...
I think I need to buy a gun's picture

i guess world war 3 started a few weeks ago we just don't know it yet.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 10:02 | Link to Comment EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Right on plan. With serious questions overhanging the ability of the COMEX to deliver physical silver in the upcoming month, this could be the "unforeseen circumstance" which "forces the hand of the government" in the matter of keeping the delivery promise.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 10:09 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

(Intentionally planned) force majeure bitches.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force_majeure

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 10:07 | Link to Comment Arch Duke Ferdinand
Arch Duke Ferdinand's picture

""i guess world war 3 started a few weeks ago we just don't know it yet.""

 

Why Canada's four Western Provinces, w/ only 12.5 million citizens, a plethora of Natural Resources, and led by Gateway city Vancouver BC is the safest quadrant in the world....

 

http://seenoevilspeaknoevilhearnoevil.blogspot.com/2011/01/why-vancouver-bc-is-worlds-safe-haven.html

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 10:14 | Link to Comment EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

a plethora of Natural Resources

Right, so it'd be the safest place WHILE the war is ongoing, only to be annexed immediately afterwards.

I hope the captors take a shine to the locals.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 10:19 | Link to Comment Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Global cooling is gonna make Canada the suck.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 09:50 | Link to Comment HamyWanger
HamyWanger's picture

More and more doom.

In the meantime, stocks are reaching new highs

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 10:00 | Link to Comment Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Troll, you think stocks matter in this scenario? Potential WWIII flash point stuff here..

Joik! 

ORI

http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2011/02/16/truth-about-america-truth-about-us/

 

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 10:42 | Link to Comment papaswamp
papaswamp's picture

pssst sarcastic humor...roll with the Ham...roll

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 10:56 | Link to Comment Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

If you say so papaS. I thought he was a single minded, stock pumping troll.

At least cousin HarryW said intelligent things. Wrong but intelligent.

ORI

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 11:15 | Link to Comment Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

The funniest thing currently on ZH.  The inability to recognize hamy..

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 14:23 | Link to Comment Cpl Hicks
Cpl Hicks's picture

"wrong but intelligent"...lol

you're a funny indian

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 10:35 | Link to Comment Rick Masters
Rick Masters's picture

I get sick of the doom too harry; its such a turn off. BTW, how do you feel about shorting LZB after its record gains yesterday? Do you think they hold at 10.50, go up, or come back down? I have a virtual protfolio that I play with; i thought it would be a good idea before I actually invest in stocks and commodities and some ETFs so I could see what I am good and bad in real time without losing any real cash. Thanks.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 10:43 | Link to Comment snowball777
snowball777's picture

What is this "real cash" you speak of?

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 12:39 | Link to Comment Rick Masters
Rick Masters's picture

I beleive they are called FRNs which will all hold their value in th event of a crash or gain value if 2008 is any example. Everyone flees to the safe haven of the dollar when there is a panic. It's kinda like an election: it's the lesser of the evils.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 14:27 | Link to Comment Cpl Hicks
Cpl Hicks's picture

 I have a virtual protfolio that I play with

All hat and no cattle, right?

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 16:31 | Link to Comment Rick Masters
Rick Masters's picture

I don't even know what that means...all hat and no cattle? I guess it means I don't have the balls to get in the game but want to appear as if i am?

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 10:39 | Link to Comment curbyourrisk
curbyourrisk's picture

Again...you are automatically junked just for existing.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 12:00 | Link to Comment SilverFiend
SilverFiend's picture

Junked for existing or because the zh'ers want

the real Wanger back to junk instead?

Tue, 02/22/2011 - 01:56 | Link to Comment gorillaonyourback
gorillaonyourback's picture

show me the money right hamy,  so i dont get why you spew propaganda for the kleptocracy and shortly the money they pay u will be worthless. Is there a promise for you to be a high ranking NWO OFFICIAL?  Have you considered being rolled under the bus when your usefullness is up?

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 09:49 | Link to Comment BeerGoggles
BeerGoggles's picture

The EUR jumped on the CPI not your made up "freak" news story that you are trying to publish to get your trades done.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 09:51 | Link to Comment equity_momo
equity_momo's picture

147 was the magic number to crater the global economy in 2008 , whats it going to take this time?

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 09:52 | Link to Comment cossack55
cossack55's picture

With Rudolf von Bernankenstein in the drivers seat, I would guess about $2174.00/brl

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 09:59 | Link to Comment equity_momo
equity_momo's picture

Given consumers are worse off now than they were in 2007-8 , i was thinking a smaller number.  Until Ben gets in his actual helicoper and drops actual confetti onto actual real people , i dont see how oil gets much higher without the economy imploding.  No?

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 13:19 | Link to Comment Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

Judenfetzen.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 14:13 | Link to Comment equity_momo
equity_momo's picture

Nice.    I wonder what Americans will call the dollar - the same thing?

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 10:48 | Link to Comment unununium
unununium's picture

You'll know the high is hit when Goldman sets its target 50% higher.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 09:51 | Link to Comment dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

the saudi's are starting to freak out. bahrain has got them nervous. bahrain will play out much differently than egypt me thinks.

 

http://nakedempire.wordpress.com/

 

 

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 09:57 | Link to Comment PY-129-20
PY-129-20's picture

It already does play out differently. I guess the guys in the armored vehicles aren't Shias. :) So they better do not protest in front of them. Meanwhile Roboclinton will speak about universal rights and stuff.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 10:02 | Link to Comment Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

We need  Madeleine Albright back. She was such concentrated, primordial ugly, foreign leaders would surrender rather than sit across a table from her.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 10:09 | Link to Comment SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

and the beautiful and mesmerizing Mrs. Clinton will have them eating out of her hand?

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 10:20 | Link to Comment Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Come on. It takes at least a few minutes even for Shillary to induce nausea.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 10:45 | Link to Comment snowball777
snowball777's picture

Not her hand.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 10:20 | Link to Comment Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

Yup, the beautiful "your blood, my guts" albright....eck!

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 10:31 | Link to Comment velobabe
velobabe's picture

she lifts iron every day, to stay in shape†

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 10:44 | Link to Comment snowball777
snowball777's picture

Only in her Centrum Silver.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 11:26 | Link to Comment Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

Theres silver in Centrum?  Imma go hoard some of that too!!

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 11:00 | Link to Comment MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

A Serbian told me that Madeline Albright walked into a room full of men prior to the bombings in 1995. 

She said "Gentlemen, shall we make love or make war?"  They all took one more look at her and history was decided.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 09:51 | Link to Comment cossack55
cossack55's picture

How dare those pesky Persians.  Next thing you know, they will want to transit the Panama Canal on their way to the People's Democratic Republic of California.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 10:00 | Link to Comment PY-129-20
PY-129-20's picture

People's Democratic Republic of California? *lol* That's priceless. And Larry David is the new chairman?

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 10:29 | Link to Comment pazmaker
pazmaker's picture

Actually they will dock in Venezuela without having to go through the Panama Canal.  They already have a  Iranian presence in Venezuela with the direct flight from Tehran to Caracas.

 

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 10:47 | Link to Comment Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

No. Someone else has dibs on that.

 

LONDON - CHINA is in talks to build a 'dry canal' linking Colombia's Atlantic and Pacific coasts by rail, Colombian President Juan Manuel Santos was quoted as saying on Sunday.

The 220km project, dubbed as an alternative to the Panama canal, is one of a series of Chinese proposals that would boost transport links with Asia and improve Colombia's infrastructure, the Financial Times said, citing documents it has seen.

China, Colombia in talks over Panama canal rival

 

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 11:09 | Link to Comment pazmaker
pazmaker's picture

Atomizer,  Thanks for the link. I am always interested in keeping up with the happenings in South America.

Since this thread was about Iran I was referring to Iraninan Intelligence presence in Venezuela or maybe it's Hezbollah...

I have family in Venezuela ..Caracas specifically.... and I know there is some type of presence there.

I'm sure one could argue whether or not it is Iranian business men and not Iranian Intelligence, but they are there.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 09:51 | Link to Comment Quintus
Quintus's picture

Seems like that was yesterday's news as far as Crude prices are concerned.  Yesterday - panic price spikes in crude as Iran sends ships through Suez.  Today - Market yawns as Iran sends ships though Suez.  It's a funny old world.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 09:57 | Link to Comment overmedicatedun...
overmedicatedundersexed's picture

might be OT, but with all the glorifying of the rioters in Cairo perhaps the female members of ZH should read this.

   this is about our great democratic Egyptian muslims and how women need to understand in the Muslim world your liberal ideology will not protect you.

 

http://frontpagemag.com/2011/02/17/islam-and-the-brutal-sex-assault-of-lara-logan/

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 10:08 | Link to Comment Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

NAG: Nat'l Association of Gals strangely silent on the issue of Muslim women being only worth half a man. At least, being American, her family won't kill her for the shame she represents.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 10:25 | Link to Comment psychobilly
Thu, 02/17/2011 - 10:40 | Link to Comment SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

3/3'rds are skanks.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 10:46 | Link to Comment snowball777
snowball777's picture

I told you those gays would cause nothing but trouble.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 10:55 | Link to Comment Aerows
Aerows's picture

"Liberal ideology", whatever that is, might not protect me, but my .357 certainly will.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 11:25 | Link to Comment tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

You're welcome on the Georgia compound anytime.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 09:54 | Link to Comment eckart
eckart's picture

Bernanke has just set the printing press to Weimer level...now wait for the usual price action

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 09:55 | Link to Comment John McCloy
John McCloy's picture

Now pretty much confirmed why after Iraq we decided to just double down on Afghanistan. Last year I was saying Israel has no intentions of allowing the U.S. To leave the region in mass. There has been so much rhetoric at home from the citizens and even more politicians to leave the region but the shadow CIA and their defense contractors cannot allow that.
If forces pulled out and then there was trouble in the Middle East in the next few years there is not enough political will to redeploy. So when people ask why we are spinning the wheels in Afghanistan and are in a holding pattern this is why.
No coincidence between the flotilla, google assisted protests and rampant street protests and all of this. They are throwing shot against every wall and waiting for something to stick. Somebody wants a war and America is not being permitted to leave the region.
This frightens me into believing a staged terror event is in the menu in the near future. These troops need to be brought home immeadietly before it is too late.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 10:03 | Link to Comment Pants McPants
Pants McPants's picture

Is there a need for a staged terror event?  To paraphrase Tom Joad, the US already acts like a whipped bitch.  I see no need for the US to endure another staged terror event.

Besides, the US has all the terror it needs within the Eccles building.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 10:12 | Link to Comment Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

How do you suppose the Israelis managed to make the Iranians ramp up the tension?

Those Jews. Is there anything they can't do?

The Iranians are Jew puppets, as well? Damn.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 10:16 | Link to Comment Max Hunter
Max Hunter's picture

Agreed JM.. In addition, I have this gut feeling that TPTB need an event to marginalize the impending economic turmoil that would have revealed criminal intent. But instead, the "event" will produce an object of interest for the schools of fish to abruptly set course for..

I agree, get these troops home.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 09:55 | Link to Comment GerritB
GerritB's picture

Oeps....AEX just experienced a flash crash....

 

In other news, I though there were no volcanos in Germany....

 

http://theextinctionprotocol.wordpress.com/2011/02/15/is-germanys-super-...

 

 

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 10:04 | Link to Comment snowball777
snowball777's picture

"See pages 134-135 in my book..."

LAME.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 10:05 | Link to Comment taraxias
taraxias's picture

I hope you realize "any time" in geology lingo means 10,000 years give or take a few hundred centuries.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 10:32 | Link to Comment PY-129-20
PY-129-20's picture

Seems to be unlikely (according to the latest scientific observation (made by US-German scientists in Jan-2011). But I live next to it. So if anything happens, I will send you a warning email, okay? :)

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 09:58 | Link to Comment jobs1234
jobs1234's picture

Wake me up when the Dow is up 100 today.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 10:19 | Link to Comment SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Probably will be, dollar to plunge about that much so stock holders can sell their stocks for ever more worthless dollars or hold hoping stock rise can keep pace.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 10:00 | Link to Comment BeeTee
BeeTee's picture

Iran cancels plans to pass two warchips through Suez (from Reuters)...

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/17/us-egypt-idUSTRE70O3UW20110217

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 10:06 | Link to Comment taraxias
taraxias's picture

The market knew, it always does.

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 10:18 | Link to Comment BeeTee
BeeTee's picture
Breaking News: Iran state TV confirms two warships are to cross the Suez Canal

Reuters have changed their mind!  This is their new banner headline

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 10:28 | Link to Comment palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

I don't think they have approval from the Egyptians, which is required

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/165696.html

nor, it appears, will they probably get it.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/world/egypt-blocks-plans-by-iran-to-send...

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 11:11 | Link to Comment MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

It is a quantum geopolitical event -- the Iranians are simultaneously transiting the Suez and also NOT transiting the Suez.

It will remain this way as long as no one looks at them. ;)

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 12:20 | Link to Comment ExpendableOne
ExpendableOne's picture

+10 for physics reference.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!