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It's Official: Wisconsin Gov. Walker Signs Bill Taking Away Public Worker Collective Bargaining Rights.

Tyler Durden's picture


While the signature of Governor Walker to the Bill that had passed both the Senate and the Assembly, was inevitable, it is now also history. The first shot across the bow at America's unions is now official. What happens in Wisconsin next is anyone's guess. Probably nothing much. And any union member who may consider protesting today should carefully evaluate whether they should be doing so at the Senate building or on Wall Street/D.C. where the root of America's insolvency, and all of its financial problems stems from.


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Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:00 | 1040604 pazmaker
pazmaker's picture

get ready for a 4000 comment thread from union whiners.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:02 | 1040609 LowProfile
LowProfile's picture

+ lmao

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:23 | 1040682 66Sexy
66Sexy's picture

funny how that works. all the "pain" tends to roll downhill to the shit shovelers. the eye in the sky? kickin' it, and collecting tax payer bailouts like huge doses of morphine.

what used to be 'fuck the poor', now its 'fuck the middle class', all reflective of a declining dollar losing purchasing power. the problem is not just overpaid union workers, and wall street. its that we have become maladaptive, and cannot compete in a true market. we need stimulus, credit, and bailouts to exist day to day.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:37 | 1040751 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

This is the inevitable conclusion of the nanny state.

Sat, 03/12/2011 - 02:34 | 1043540 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

Executive Order 11110 AMENDMENT OF EXECUTIVE ORDER NO. 10289


By virtue of the authority vested in me by section 301 of title 3 of the United States Code, it is ordered as follows:

Section 1. Executive Order No. 10289 of September 19, 1951, as amended, is hereby further amended-

By adding at the end of paragraph 1 thereof the following subparagraph (j):

(j) The authority vested in the President by paragraph (b) of section 43 of the Act of May 12,1933, as amended (31 U.S.C.821(b)), to issue silver certificates against any silver bullion, silver, or standard silver dollars in the Treasury not then held for redemption of any outstanding silver certificates, to prescribe the denomination of such silver certificates, and to coin standard silver dollars and subsidiary silver currency for their redemption

and --

Byrevoking subparagraphs (b) and (c) of paragraph 2 thereof.

Sec. 2. The amendments made by this Order shall not affect any act done, or any right accruing or accrued or any suit or proceeding had or commenced in any civil or criminal cause prior to the date of this Order but all such liabilities shall continue and may be enforced as if said amendments had not been made.

John F. Kennedy The White House, June 4, 1963.

Of course, the fact that both JFK and Lincoln met the the same end is a mere coincidence.

Abraham Lincoln's Monetary Policy, 1865 (Page 91 of Senate document 23.)

Money is the creature of law and the creation of the original issue of money should be maintained as the exclusive monopoly of national Government.

Sat, 03/12/2011 - 15:37 | 1044850 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

To ALL Republicans on this Thread Bitching about the Union(s)...


To all wanna be Hawks / wanna be Conservatives...


$440,781,045,961.00 <----- got NO! Fucking Air Time... No Picket Signs... NOTHING!!!!




Anger as JP Morgan bankers get $10bn pay and bonus pot



JP Morgans Bonus Monies Last Year.. when no real work was completed.. could have paid for Wisconsin in TOTAL which includes the Unions...




When you wanna be motherfuckers take the time to post 700 plus times on the 102 Billion that "We the People" are getting Fucked for next Month.. I will stop calling you Poser / Wanna Be's.. but until then, you are fucking banker puppets paying attention to what you are told to pay attention too.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:38 | 1040755 flattrader
flattrader's picture

Walker is a dead politician walking.

He's lost his conservative margin vote that put him in office according to numerous polls.

The recall movement is well-funded.

The recent state legislative action violated numerous state statutes and is heading to court.  It will likely be overturned.  (Shades of Walker's attempt to steamroll an end to collective bargaining in Milwaukee County during a self-declared so-called budget emergency as county exec which was then overturned by a judge and cost the county millions.)

The naked power grab is being seen for what it is...a looting of state assets, pension, forests, energy producing for his wealthy Billionaire Backers the Koch Bros. and the banking interests that put him in power.

Now the governor of Michigan is trying the same crap.

It's amusing that many libertarians support this.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:52 | 1040833 gringo28
gringo28's picture

wtf is this? Arianna Huffington's troll bitch avatar posting on ZH? anyone who thinks that public employees shouldn't be compensated on the same level as the private sector is a shill, no way around it.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 13:08 | 1040911 Richard Head
Richard Head's picture

I think you meant public employees should be compensated LESS THAN private sector employees.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 13:33 | 1041080 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

If they can even be paid the "same", then it necessarily means the government has already intruded into the private sector...  in other words, we should not even be able to compare the two.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 21:35 | 1043038 Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

Maybe read Tyler's write-up here before spewing your nonsense.  The Wall Street "external advisors" (who by the way cost the state of Wisconsin $194 million dollars last year) gifted the state with a net $10 billion dollar loss to it's primary pension fund over the last three years.  The state would have been in great financial shape without these fucking jackals.


Fri, 03/11/2011 - 13:12 | 1040840 flattrader
flattrader's picture

This my pro-billionaire/bankster so-called libertarian friends is your bright future…(and when Walker and his Koch backed deluded Tea Party friends are done looting state assets, they’ll come after your assets.

Scott Walkers Real Agenda in Wisconsin

The Republican governor's budget plan would open the state up to a corporate asset-grab not seen since robber baron capitalism

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 13:59 | 1041277 DFCtomm
DFCtomm's picture

We have six bus drivers in Wisconsin who made over 100k a year, and one who made over 150k one year. If that's not public unions hosing the taxpayer then what is. Public unions are evil. When a union negotiates with the Democrat they helped elect, then who represents the taxpayer?

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 14:36 | 1041488 flattrader
flattrader's picture

From the article--

>>>Concern about bus drivers being among the city's highest earners isn't new. The issue surfaced after Metro changed from a Downtown hub to a transfer station system in 1998.

In 1997, before the change, no driver made more than $70,000. But two years later, as Metro struggled to fill vacancies, two drivers topped $100,000 and seven more made more than $70,000.<<<

Sounds like supply demand.

Couldn't find (or retain?) qualified drivers.  Senior drivers took the overtime.

Private businesses are subject to the same labor supply issues as public employeers.

So, go drive a bus for $25,000 a year late at night, in the wee hours of the morning, in the ice, snow and minus zero degrees and ease the burden on the taxpayer.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 15:02 | 1041628 DFCtomm
DFCtomm's picture

If you would care to read the article then you would realize that the union negotiated restrictions on part time drives, and other methods that might have been used to reduce overtime. You know those very collective bargaining rights that have been stripped.



Also, the union contract limits part-timers to 15 percent of the number full-time drivers, and part-timers can only drive morning and afternoon school routes. Those rules create opportunities for overtime and other special pay for full-time workers.

The city negotiated more flexibility for using part timers in 2002-03, but a state audit last year recommended Metro seek even more flexibility and noted that some pay premiums, such as those for evening and Sunday shifts, are uncommon in the industry. <<<<<<<<<


That strangely enough was just after the quote you used, but I'm sure it was just an oversight. You wouldn't attempt to mislead anybody.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 18:44 | 1042450 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture


Fri, 03/11/2011 - 13:10 | 1040893 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

It is hilarious how if the white collar bank labor were unionized the elite left opinion on bank bailouts would be completely different. Would have been 100% behind them just like they were 100% behind GM as a country needs a car maker but not a banking system to function.

Whereas the right opinion against the bailouts regardless would not change.




It is not Wall St/banks why the country is bankrupt,

it is the Ivy league educated brainwashed governmental leftists bailing them out that is at fault.

Is is the gov'ts insane barriers to entry, endless regulators, ludicrous conditions that enable them.  Blame fractional reserves? Smart idea, keep 100% reserves locked in a closet somewhere, ultra efficient and not oppressive in the slightest.


Fri, 03/11/2011 - 13:53 | 1041224 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

Jesus, flattrader, give it up already. What Walker and the WI republicans did was perfectly legal according to the tenants of a representative democracy. They proposed a bill, they voted on the bill, the governor signed the bill. Just get over it. Even if your union pals and the brave Democrats who fled to Illinois had carried the day, the public union retirees still wouldn't have gotten their retirement benefits because there is no money.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 13:58 | 1041262 rustybenelli
rustybenelli's picture

I live in wi. and have family members that work for the state.  I have a brother who has stated for years "I really dont do anything at work",he is protesting now.  I have a sister in law who has been so busy at work she does not have time to go grocery shopping(on the taxpayers dime). I do not like what is happening now,but as a taxpayer-I think it is not too much to expect a full days work for a full days pay.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 21:08 | 1042976 downwiththebanks
downwiththebanks's picture

Tell that to AIG.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 20:06 | 1042769 steelhead23
steelhead23's picture

Even if we place the collective bargaining issue on the shelf, the bill as passed will damage Wisconsin.  All you union haters out there - WAKE UP.  Yeah, this bill kicks the unionists in the balls - but if you happen to make something in Wisconsin - watch out, Scott Walker just sold you down the river.  If, as authorized in this bill, Walker decides to sell off state-owned powerplants, you can kiss your profits goodbye.  Does anyone at ZH remember Enron, 2001, and the West Coast energy crisis?  At the pleading of "conservative" activists, California forced its utilities to divest their generation resources and enter into competitive contracts for energy, mostly on the day-ahead market.  This unleashing of the genius of the market was certain to save their customers money.  I won't go into all of the machinations Enron and others engaged in once they opened the "free market" door, but I can say this, wholesale electricity, which had virtually never exceeded $75 per megaWatt-hour was priced in the hundreds much of the spring of 2001 and at peak demand, often exceeded $1500 per MWh.  California lost about $9 Billion (and Gray Davis lost his job).  You're all a bunch of fairy-tale believing children if you believe that the state would obtain fair market value for its resources and won't suffer stunning and economically strangling electricity costs as a result.  Herr Walker finagled getting YOU to support legislation aimed at putting a knife to your throats by offering to kill those detestable public employee unions and you took the bait, hook, line, and sinker.  Idiots.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 21:08 | 1042970 downwiththebanks
downwiththebanks's picture

The governor of Michigan wants to be able to fire mayors and put a CEO into office.

Jamie Dimon's class warriors will be giddy at such a prospect!

More than well-funded, the movement against the Koch Head is well staffed.  Let's see how he does when a couple dozen tractors roll up to his doorstep this weekend.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:44 | 1040775 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

Fukk the poor and middle class, they didn't just have unabridged access to capital at historically low interest,

that was all my imagination.

The current 0% lint on savings is really killing them vs the rich too.

They don't really live like royalty does elswhere around the globe, another figment of my deluded mind. The concept of unattainable luxury really isn't dead, the ultra rich have personal spacecraft or something.


They need to  cut taxes for these people, oh right can't cut $0.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 21:13 | 1042989 downwiththebanks
downwiththebanks's picture

Savings accounts pay about 0% these days, too.  That's a real incentive, isn't it?

Workers pay SALES TAX, which is more than the banker-gangsters pay to loot the world and blow up the economy with their trillion dollar derivative schemes.

The Keyboard Cowboys get bailed out, though.  Because they went to private school!

Either you're disingenuous or you're stupid.  Regardless, you're serving the Morgue.  

Good job.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 22:09 | 1043090 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

A lot of state sales tax going to that $14,000,000,000,000

federal deficit class warfare/union bot.

$0.THe poor will pay nothing towards the economic calamity and the middle class pretty close to nothing-that is what happens when 50% pay no federal income tax and/or have no savings to be penalized with the 100% tax on interest income called 0% interest on savings.


I am stupid, a total idiotic moronic imbecile

and I get it, so why don't you?



Sat, 03/12/2011 - 00:05 | 1043315 downwiththebanks
downwiththebanks's picture


There are many ways to erase huge amounts of debt, starting with actually TAXING those people who have looted our treasury.

Does that, specifically, solve the problem of Fractional Reserve Banking?  Of course not.

But the whole "debt" game is a sham to compel extortion of government by the bailed-out the banker-gangsters to whose defense you've come.

Sat, 03/12/2011 - 11:24 | 1044218 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

Atta boy stand up for the biggest criminals in the world, the governments. They take and take and take some more and keep on taking. The banks are an extension of the government afterall they have made it almost impossible for any normal to get into the banking industry. They would adore full reserves, making capital even less accessable to the normals and making it even more difficult for a normal to get into the banking industry.



Taxing the poor is never a solution to federal debt but keep beating that ignorant drum.


The problem isn't fractional banking as if taking resources out of circulation and putting them in a closet somewhere doesn't hurt the poor and middle class imbecile. That is what they want you idiot, even less access to capital for the normals.


I get it though, you are a fanatic of titanic proportions and will latch onto any old bullshit to support that fanatacism.


Public unions,bankers, insurance companies, welfare, any industry who games the government, the government itself et al all on one side vs the normals   on the other.


Not sure why figuring out whom is on their team is so difficult for the neo marxist.


Fri, 03/11/2011 - 14:18 | 1041359 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

The problem with pensions is simple, unfortunately, the understanding is not. We are not educated in economics and therefore don't realize what a pension is.

Pensions are a loan. We loan our present earnings to the government in the hope we receive it back (and a little more) at a future date. What no one understands is that there is risk involved when you loan money. There is a chance you will not receive it as the receiver may go bankrupt or you may take a haircut as assets can only pay a portion of what you invested.

These public workers are ignorant of risk, just as GM workers and any number of other pension plans that have gone bust. They assumed they would be paid in full. This is as dangerous as banks thinking they would be made whole (of course, they have more influence than a worker, thus, they are being made whole). 

People can whine and complain and dance around crying how they are being cheated, and they are. Unfortunately, this is the nature of risk. You have to make an assessment of the borrowers ability to repay a loan. 

This is complicated by a union that required your participation. There was no way to opt out and receive your benefits at the time you earned them. Further, there is no mechanism to hedge your risk- meaning, your union screwed you.

There is a price paid for ignorance of economics and how money works. If nothing else, people hopefully will learn this lesson and make adjustments.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 21:20 | 1043000 downwiththebanks
downwiththebanks's picture

The risk is especially high when that 'loan' from the pensioner (that's what you call this obligation constituting one part of a negotiated CONTRACT) gets handed over to the banker-gangsters for 'risk management'.

The Keyboard Cowboys then steal it from you, claim they lost it, and get bailed out.

And if you were dumb enough to believe the word of Capitalists bearing Contracts, you just get the shaft.

Then they attack you on ZeroHedge.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 22:12 | 1043100 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

Sure last time I actually looked at one,

it was New Mexico's state pension fund,

being managed by financial professor from Arizona State in 2006,

guess what he was invested in?

every mortgage fraud know to mankind from Novastar to COuntrywide and back again.


How much better off would they have been actually letting Wall St manage it instead of some academic theoretical pack animal?


You play the victim well whiny bitch, now try actually finding the state pension holdings and who actually is managing them next time.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:25 | 1040695 Careless Whisper
Careless Whisper's picture

never mind the unions, (a diversion), what about secret no-bid deals to sell off state owned utilities?  anyone know if this language made it in to the final bill?

(1) Notwithstanding ss. 13.48 (14) (am) and 16.705 (1), the department may sell any state−owned heating, cooling, and power plant or may contract with a private entity for the operation of any such plant, with or without solicitation of bids, for any amount


Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:35 | 1040723 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture


 O/U on times Koch appears below 100,000 1/2.

America 1 Soros 0.

Afterall bank CEOS are vastly overpaid so government servants should be too.

 Maybe they should just raise taxes, oh wait Europe has higher taxes and most of it is broke too.

 The new normal acccording to the union bots=

uneducated labor making $150K a year, retiring at 50yo with a pension and full benefits.

 Oh but people died for these labor laws 50yrs ago, so make it $200K and retire at 40yo.

Unions are so congruent with government, earn as much money as possible for as little work as possible, really jives well with government providing as much services as possible for as inexpensively as possible.


Green Bay the model for all cities, bus drivers earn $150K/yr,

fresh out of school physicians with $250K in med school debyt earn $80K.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:39 | 1040765 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

One of the reasons my city has not been more affected by the downturn is because we have agreements with/own part of a nuclear reactor...  the city run electricity is very cheap and, as a result, very attractive to prospective manufacturers, etc.  Not to mention bending backward in other ways to get them here...  needless to say, selling ownership interest in energy generation facilities might not be a good strategic decision...

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 21:23 | 1043013 downwiththebanks
downwiththebanks's picture

The Vikram Pandit Brigade has arrived.  It's time to smash those who do REAL work.

All hands on deck for the class war.  Keyboard Cowboys, ATTACK!

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 19:07 | 1042559 DaBernank
DaBernank's picture

Teach some kids to do differential equations or STFU, bitchez.

Sat, 03/12/2011 - 15:37 | 1044848 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

To ALL Republicans on this Thread Bitching about the Union(s)...


To all wanna be Hawks / wanna be Conservatives...


$440,781,045,961.00 <----- got NO! Fucking Air Time... No Picket Signs... NOTHING!!!!




Anger as JP Morgan bankers get $10bn pay and bonus pot



JP Morgans Bonus Monies Last Year.. when no real work was completed.. could have paid for Wisconsin in TOTAL which includes the Unions...




When you wanna be motherfuckers take the time to post 700 plus times on the 102 Billion that "We the People" are getting Fucked for next Month.. I will stop calling you Poser / Wanna Be's.. but until then, you are fucking banker puppets paying attention to what you are told to pay attention too.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:20 | 1040677 treemagnet
treemagnet's picture

you got that right, its "rage against the machine time" once more. 

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 13:00 | 1040867 alangreedspank
alangreedspank's picture


Yeah. Amazing right ? The tit has been sucked dry and yet they manage to turn this into a "the elite is cracking down on the middle class!" argument.

How about the middle class that was paying for their insanely good conditions comparing to the shit sandwich the "other" middle class was eating meanwhile ?


Fri, 03/11/2011 - 13:43 | 1041173 boooyaaaah
boooyaaaah's picture

To Me

The Banksters on Wall Street

And the Public Unions are the Same

Both sucking me dry

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 21:25 | 1043020 downwiththebanks
downwiththebanks's picture

Right now, on this issue, you're standing with Jamie Dimon and against librarians.

Good job. 

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 13:17 | 1040966 Vergeltung
Vergeltung's picture

you got that right Paz!

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 13:49 | 1041201 Carl Spackler
Carl Spackler's picture

I nominate pazmaker for the ZH "Reader Post of the Day" award !!!

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 17:15 | 1041337 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture


"get ready for a 4000 comment thread..."

214 posts in 2 hours.  can we keep up this torrid pace for 35 hours?

- Ned

[ed. I think that all of the junks mean "go with the Under." ;-) ]

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 21:03 | 1042959 downwiththebanks
downwiththebanks's picture

And 10,000 more from the Keyboard Cowboys lining up to beat-off Jamie Dimon right after beating on people who actually do REAL work.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:04 | 1040614 Mister Rumbles
Mister Rumbles's picture

"America's" union? Hardly...

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:06 | 1040619 NOTW777
NOTW777's picture

great news.

sad performance by cnbc carl in attacking walker this morning

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:08 | 1040625 duo
duo's picture

Gov. Walker had better stay out of his hot tub.  You never know what the union thugs are capable of.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:10 | 1040637 NOTW777
NOTW777's picture

rahm and chicago mob right across the border like al qaeda

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:06 | 1040620 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

a general strike may be in the making in well as a campaign to recall the Governor.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:09 | 1040624 NOTW777
NOTW777's picture

how about a strike by the people that pay the bills

carpetbaggers leave, jesse go home, dc union thugs - u lost

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:09 | 1040633 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

with all due respect...Go fuck yourself.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:11 | 1040642 NOTW777
NOTW777's picture

yes, the voice of the erudite left - scream away

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:13 | 1040647 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

I'll bet your a big fan of Mussolini aren't you?

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:20 | 1040676 william the bastard
william the bastard's picture

Viva el Duce !

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:31 | 1040725 equity_momo
equity_momo's picture

Well, whilst we are throwing around poo like monkeys : you're probably a big fan of Stalin.


Oh this is fun! Your turn.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 13:31 | 1041067 Biggvs
Biggvs's picture

+1 lmao

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 13:04 | 1040887 Cow
Cow's picture

Mussolini?  How about let's go right to the Hitler argument and Godwins Law.  Why wait?


Fri, 03/11/2011 - 13:25 | 1041018 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

Cow: who knew it was a law?  I did remember the phrase from old UUNet "Flame Wars."

WB7--here's what I mentioned to you a while ago.

"Four legs good!"

- Ned

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 13:09 | 1040904 Cow
Cow's picture



Fri, 03/11/2011 - 15:34 | 1041778 Irwin M Fletcher
Irwin M Fletcher's picture

tsk tsk tsk.  Somebody doesn't know their history.  Il Duce was a Fascist (capital F), which was the party of the trade unions in turn of the century Italy.  So, in reality, Mussolini would have more likely been one of the protestors.

Scott Walker Forever!  Michigan State in the Final Four never!

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:15 | 1040649 yabyum
yabyum's picture

Well said alien: The power elite and bankers won this one, the folks who get up in the AM and go to work have lost. Gov Walker is a Koch sucker.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:16 | 1040662 Gene Parmesan
Gene Parmesan's picture

the folks who get up in the AM and go to work have lost


You mean the taxpayers? I think they won here, actually.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:28 | 1040710 Arseclown
Arseclown's picture

+14,228,973,000 (debt as of 11:27am)

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:31 | 1040726 Arseclown
Arseclown's picture

OOPS, my bad.  Forgot a few more zeros. And an extra million.  But, hey, what's a mil here and there?


Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:27 | 1040712 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Enjoy your future minimum wage teachers, tax payer.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:34 | 1040741 DB Cooper
DB Cooper's picture

I'm all for paying teachers well, but not to the point of ridiculously inflating their wages the last few years before retirement to screw the taxpayers.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:43 | 1040789 Gene Parmesan
Gene Parmesan's picture

Baseless hysteria. Next!

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 13:30 | 1041069 Ms. Erable
Ms. Erable's picture

If their salary was based on job performance, they'd be paid less than minimum wage.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 15:32 | 1041763 Thisson
Thisson's picture

Government-employed teachers should be making minimum wage.  Private-sector-employed teachers should be making market wages.  Problem solved.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:30 | 1040717 r101958
r101958's picture

Unions now thrive on class warfare. Funny how you lump the power elite and bankers in with the taxpayers. Not very smart.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:45 | 1040802 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Actually, the power elite, banksters, and teachers are all on the same team AGAINST the taxpayers...  What the union folks on here are advocating is that the "bankers won"...  well, they only won in so far as they get to keep more of their welfare.  They fail to see they're actually in the same boat as the banksters.  Some animals are more equal than others.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:49 | 1040820 yabyum
yabyum's picture

R101, The class war is OVER! The bankers and billionairs won.The Librertarians fiddled why the middle class burned.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:36 | 1040750 equity_momo
equity_momo's picture

Majority of public sector jobs are just a form of welfare. But its all just a distraction , public sector workers are just going to have to deal with how shit the REAL economy has been for the last 10 years. This isnt a banking v public sector fight , its just part of the banking v society fight.  Public sector expansion was fuelled with cheap credit - the bankers designed it. Now theyre taking the punch bowl away because they have no choice. Dont you get it. Its game fucking over. Stop crying and start coping.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:56 | 1040852 yabyum
yabyum's picture

Tell that to a fireman going into a burning building. Tell that to a paramedic fighting to save your sorry ass.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 13:09 | 1040915 alangreedspank
alangreedspank's picture


You are confusing essential services we all want to have versus violent monopolization of those services the government/unions are imposing on the tax cattle.

Nobody ever said they are against firefighting and healthcare, troll.


Fri, 03/11/2011 - 17:29 | 1042168 equity_momo
equity_momo's picture

Exactly. I wrongly assumed it goes without saying those at the FRONT of frontline services  - fireman , health(ie those performing life saving functions NOT pushing paper in the background) - probably require a pay RAISE. Everyone else can suck a donkey cock. Vastly overpaid , self important and entitled.

You could cut 90% of public sector paper pushers and the only difference society would notice is the UE stats. That in itself though is a whole nother matter. What to do with them. 

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 13:15 | 1040951 Richard Head
Richard Head's picture

A soldier or Marine on patrol in Iraq or Afghanistan takes 1000x the risk of a firefighter.  Soldiers and Marines get paid shit.  Supply and demand mean anything to you?

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 13:02 | 1040874 Gene Parmesan
Gene Parmesan's picture

...and anyone who thinks that your average union shill is the best example of a member of "the working class" needs to get their head out of their ass. Don't work too hard trying to get it out, though - you don't want to work yourself out of a job or anything.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 13:11 | 1040927 alangreedspank
alangreedspank's picture


They do have a point though, the only middle class remaining in the most modern countries are these public sector workers. In that sense, they are a "good example" if not "only example"


Fri, 03/11/2011 - 15:37 | 1041751 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

... the folks who get up in the AM and go to work and fuck off all day, and look down their noses at taxpayers all day, and screw taxpayers all day, have lost.

Fixed it.

Junk away you slimy union slugs.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:38 | 1040761 solgundy
solgundy's picture

a member of the privileged elite,,,no doubt

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:19 | 1040665 JR
JR's picture

Well, they’ve gotta have a “general” union strike that includes, say, the transportation workers – if they want to hurt anything.  A lone public employee union strike wouldn’t hurt much of anything.   They can’t make their point unless they can hurt private business.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 13:55 | 1041240 Carl Spackler
Carl Spackler's picture

Walker cannot be recalled. 

He hasn't served long enough for that law to kick in.

Knowing the law is important, if you should want people to believe your rant or think you credible.



Fri, 03/11/2011 - 14:01 | 1041278 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

So, alien-IQ, have you sat down and considered that this noble effort that you and your supporters are advocating boils down to a fight to give public servants a better retirement package than 99% of working class private-sector Americans will ever see. You think you are fighting for the common man against the elite, but public sector unions are the elite in every sense of the word.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 17:49 | 1042247 Arkadaba
Arkadaba's picture

A better question might be why do 99% of Americans have no decent retirement package? Oh yes forgot - Walmart greeters - the new retirement package.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:08 | 1040623 Concentrated po...
Concentrated power has always been the enemy of liberty.'s picture

I want my ipod, and free everything and to retire at 50 and get paid for sick days I don't take and get a check forever even if I take another job and I want someone else to pay for it!  Oh, and I want someone give me a foot massage at taxpayer expense!  Oh, and someone thank me for doing a great job too.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:16 | 1040650 razorthin
razorthin's picture

Anyone who using a fukking credit card or takes a bank loan is essentially doing the same fukking thing.  Who do you think is paying for the banksta bailouts and currency debasement?  Fight the fukking REAL enemy, will you all please!

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:23 | 1040687 Concentrated po...
Concentrated power has always been the enemy of liberty.'s picture

umm, no one is paying for the banksta bailouts.  We borrowed all the money for the bailouts.  We aren't going to pay it back.  We are making the "minimum payment" on the credit card statement.  It'll take 12345422 years to pay it back, meaning never.  The union argument doesn't hold up any better than the banksta bailout argument.  The enemy is us.  We borrowed to buy what we wanted and don't want to pay it back.  It's the American way.

Oh, and we want to borrow some more because the Ipad2 is out and stuff.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:34 | 1040733 razorthin
razorthin's picture

Bleoww me, miscreant.  I'm no union supporter.  But I aim to destroy the ultimate enabler of deficit spending - war and entitlements.  What's your point in being on this site anyway?  Haven't you been paying attention?  Go to Hannity's blog, won't you.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:44 | 1040794 Concentrated po...
Concentrated power has always been the enemy of liberty.'s picture

You need to take a tranquilizer or a rabies shot.  Have a nice day.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:50 | 1040815 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

THe people foregoing trillions in interest on savings with the new normal of 0% savings rates or 100% tax on interest income are the only ones currently paying.

and when they inevitably raise taxes to pay for it,

the people paying $0 won't be paying then either.

Try again with the idiomatic class warfare bullshit.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 19:59 | 1042770 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

"Public" Employees:

There is a class war...

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 13:12 | 1040882 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

I agree end the most costly never ending and non winnable wars,

the one's against drugs and poverty.


Spent endless trillions and getting less than zero results.



Fri, 03/11/2011 - 15:35 | 1041781 Thisson
Thisson's picture

The "ultimate enabler" is fractional reserve banking, not war and entitlements.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 16:51 | 1041996 Vagabond
Vagabond's picture

More like fiat currency.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:15 | 1040653 bbaez
bbaez's picture

You have to work for Gvt Sachs for all of that

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:33 | 1040736 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

and viagra! I want my taxpayer paid health care plan to give me free viagra!

Teacher's union fights for Viagra

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:08 | 1040627 cxl9
cxl9's picture

Government employment is nothing but disguised welfare. They show up for some make-work job shuffling papers around or sending out emails or writing traffic tickets, and get a check every few weeks. The problem is that the welfare benefits have grown too expensive. People forgot that it is welfare and started to think of government as providing useful, necessary services. Government employees should not be living better than the private-sector workers who are paying for their benefits. At most, they should receive a SNAP card and a housing voucher in exchange for their valuable "services". If they're not happy with that, they can move on to other employment. I seriously doubt many of them would be missed.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:16 | 1040654 Rick Masters
Rick Masters's picture

your an ass. This site used to be so good til it was hijacked by partisans with no interst in economics or finance just politics. its really sad. all day, every day. Its your blog Tyler but I feel what once was a long-term site will now go gently into the trash heap of Cyber space just like Myspace and no one will remember because it lost its focus...and instead focused on short term problems and catered to long term demagogery.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:29 | 1040720 Slartebartfast
Slartebartfast's picture

I think you're right.  You should go find somewhere else to post your rants.  Bye.  Don't let the digital door hit 'ya in the ass on the way out!

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:49 | 1040722 Mercury
Mercury's picture

If you had been paying attention you might have noticed that pretty much all big league finance these days is politically determined.

Real estate, banking, health care, energy all lurch in response to one government mandate after another.  You can't even tell where Wall St. ends Pennsylvania Ave. begins since its all covered by a rich, fluffy, 1000 thread-count duvet cover and sheets.

I wish it weren't the case too but that's the reality.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 13:33 | 1041084 robobbob
robobbob's picture

I would say "that pretty much all big league political policy these days is financially determined."

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 13:41 | 1041140 Mercury
Mercury's picture

If by that you mean that Wall St. is in bed with government then (as indicated in my above post) yes, I agree.

If you mean that politicians, when designing government programs, begin by asking "How much will this really cost and how are we going to pay for this?"  then...not so much.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:34 | 1040735 malikai
malikai's picture

It would be folly to try to isolate politics from economics.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:37 | 1040759 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Freedom of speech, if I like it or not. I think Ty(s)'s focus is fine. You are free to say it isn't, Tyler(s) can consider it, I am free to say it is.

My truth is that the unions used to be wonderful and if they are outlawed, they will be needed again because abuses will be started again. But right now, they function like a monopoly and that isn't going to work.

Plan A:

1. We need to do arrest folks.

2. We need to do clawbacks on all the ill gotten gains.

3. We need to downsize (some of our gains are ill gotten too, yes?).

4. We need simultaneously less legislation, and a few laws in place that make it explicitly clear, you don't hurt people, you don't steal.

None of what I outlined is going to happen, innertia prevents it. We must resort to plan B:

1. Crash the system.

2. Crash the system again because the first one will be exploited/engineered.

3. Crash the system.

4. Live vigilant, knowing that the process is always a dialectic between chaos and order. Always be in the process of crashing the system.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:58 | 1040861 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Lord Acton would be proud. Well said.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 13:31 | 1041065 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

Ms, 1 unjunk on ya.

Plan B, though.  I don't think your imperative of "Crash the System" can be achieved.  It will be passive on our side, no individual control.

- Ned

{and, well, you can't catch a break can ya?  Get junked here, got junked for a post with zero content... }

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 16:52 | 1042003 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

We all got trunk junk now!! It's a real junky day.

Tiny Tim (AKA The Prick): "BUY U.S. JUNK BONDS!"

Uncle Bin (AKA Trash Bin of History): "WE WANT YOU!"


Say, New_Meat (AKA Not So New_Meat), have you ever had senators fighting over you? I heard they all want you and can't stop themselves.

Stay away from barrels.

Junque humor, junk away, if you like.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 18:03 | 1042311 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

senators?  want me? Mais non, Madame.

But we all know that they can't control themselves.  At least here in the PRMa.  Kennedy? non.  Kerry?  Well, he could control himself before he couldn't.  Brown?  I remain hopeful--he's traversing a razor-edge.

And really, you are so accusatory and judgmental!  To think that the Nevada "Cowboy Poets Fesitval" is <shudder> so-called 'Pork Barrel' spending?  I'll have you know that, until recently, 'Pork Barrel' spending was of the finest Pork!  This stuff that they have been spending on, well, it is swill.

And another thing!  Please do remind everyone that I'm Not So any more.  Maybe that ol' Rusty guy won't keep trying to invite me over for a 'smoke.'  I've been trying to toughen up, but really, I'm still just a (not-so tiny any more) little piglet. ;-)

- Ned

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 18:12 | 1042347 Arkadaba
Arkadaba's picture

No dissing of cowboy poetry - it is too cool (and I'm somewhat serious!)

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 19:19 | 1042608 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

I'm a Robert Service kinda' guy, esp. back when I was ... er ... well, kinda' "stranded" for a while.  Only written thing available, but it spoke to my situation.

And, nay, no never dissing 'cowboy poetry.'  Never.  Have at it.  Please disentangle ol' Harry from funding would be my point.

- Ned

Sat, 03/12/2011 - 06:30 | 1043735 Arkadaba
Arkadaba's picture

Very first poem I memorized was The Cremation of Sam McGee ;)

Just re- reading -  apropos:


Fri, 03/11/2011 - 16:32 | 1041942 SRV - ES339
SRV - ES339's picture

You're right Ms... lots of negative aspects of unions, but I believe you underestimate the "immediate" positives to the average non-union worker. If this right wing  assault on unions is allowed to continue, it's over, they win and it may not be possible to reverse the damage.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 16:44 | 1041977 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

I am honestly torn. The women's movement and unions supported each other. There were real abuses of children as well that unions put a stop to. The truth of it is that all institutions seem to drift to dishonesty and become out of balance. Too big seems to drift into too big to fail and then it does, colossally. The Zen folks have the right idea. Some of them disband their communities after 10 years. If there is a leadership structure, they disband that too. They know this happens. So did our founding fathers and mothers.

It seems all our debates become bifurcated when the truth is located somewhere in the middle. We fight because neither side of the debate contains all the elements that a real solution needs.

Your heart is clearly good. Good luck.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 18:49 | 1042465 SRV - ES339
SRV - ES339's picture

Thanks Ms.

Peeling the onion of this debate... my frustration peaks as I begin to realize most debating the other side have the most to lose (I'm retired early, and well off, so it doesn't affect me personally)... the elite backed Tea Party (the backers, not the rank & file) wedge issue rabble rousing is very effective, I must give them credit for that.

Best wishes.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 19:13 | 1042580 Arkadaba
Arkadaba's picture

Always read your comments because the element of truth.

I too am a little bit torn. One of my favourite pictures is me at three-months old on the picket line with my dad. He brought the union into his workplace so I kind of grew up with it. Did they get greedy, did they get corrupt - absolutely. You wouldn't believe how many things that found their way into our house because they "fell off the truck". 

In spite of that I still think that good outweighs the bad. At the time the company he worked for had an abysmal health and safety record. No pension. And no recourse if fired unjustly. 

My sister is part of a public union and may be moving into management soon. I helped her with her application. Her point of few is that very few take undue advantage of union benefits - most people work hard.

I do see this entire thread as divide and conquer (not you).  Keeping an open mind

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 20:43 | 1042899 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Thanks. I'm keeping an open mind too, I hope. I would be fine with asking union folks to make concessions or more, IF WE HAD ALREADY ARRESTED A BUNCH OF BANKERS AND POLITICIANS AND HAD SOME CLAWBACK IN OUR HANDS. Most of us have benefited from having our hand in the cookie jar (while I have paid back all my loans, I can assure you, I stretched the truth to get them in the first place. And they helped me do it [dare I say, told me how to do it]). If we get the big cheats, we will have an easier time reeling in all the spending. The dollar would rise in value, we could purchase more with it, and we might be able to start businesses with it, create jobs, etc.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:38 | 1040763 eddiebe
eddiebe's picture

Rick, I look at it this way: The more voices we hear here the better off we are. What good is a preacher preaching to the choir? Also the old adage holds: Keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer.

 As long as we have some freedoms left, none of us should discourage discourse, even if at times what we read makes our blood boil.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:53 | 1040836 equity_momo
equity_momo's picture

Instead of throwing insults why dont you tell the OP why he is wrong? And tell me why im wrong at the same time. I think he made a perfectly valid point.  You on the other hand didnt make a point , just had a bit of a hissy fit because you cant control the discourse. Youre probably a moderator at Huf-Po.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 13:40 | 1041136 robobbob
robobbob's picture

The reason I come to ZH is because most political sites  go round and round in circles playing team red and blue because they can't come to grips with the fact that big money donations and future consulting gigs are driving everything and run both parties. We elected Mr B, but things didn't work out like we thought. So then we elected Mr O, but nothing changed. If only we could elect Mr X, then maybe it will be ok.

Its like listening to people trying to predict ocean tides who have never heard of lunar gravitation. Once you add $ signs to the discussion, suddenly, everything makes sense

I don't think that TD is here to run just another money site. If you think Fight Club was a movie about boxing, then I think you're missing his intent.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 17:40 | 1042205 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

... er ... the firs...

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 21:02 | 1042950 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

For your consideration:

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:26 | 1040701 oldmanofthesee
oldmanofthesee's picture


Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:31 | 1040724 InconvenientCou...
InconvenientCounterParty's picture

"People forgot that it is welfare and started to think of government as providing useful, necessary services."

turn off the TV. you'll put yourself at risk for an intelligent thought.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:41 | 1040776 cxl9
cxl9's picture

Try travelling the world and living in a place with a minimally-functioning government, and see how much you miss those valuable government services. My guess is that, unless you're getting a government check, you'll miss them a lot less than you think.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 13:00 | 1040854 notadouche
notadouche's picture

We already live in a minimally functioning government although they get maximally funded.  

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 13:15 | 1040963 piceridu
piceridu's picture

+++++ coming from someone who travels extensively to countries with minimally functioning govs...refreshing to see and experience

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 13:24 | 1041013 Richard Head
Richard Head's picture

"Valuable government services", HAHAHAHA!  90% of it is fraud, waste and abuse.  See the recent GAO report.

The U.S. government has 15 different agencies overseeing food-safety laws, more than 20 separate programs to help the homeless and 80 programs for economic development.  The agency found 82 federal programs to improve teacher quality; 80 to help disadvantaged people with transportation; 47 for job training and employment; and 56 to help people understand finances.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:08 | 1040628 terryg999
terryg999's picture

Its the first time, I believe, in my life that Republicians have shown a backbone.


Strange days indeed!

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:09 | 1040630 Gene Parmesan
Gene Parmesan's picture

One down...

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:09 | 1040631 wherewasi
wherewasi's picture


Governor Walker, sir.... you are my hero.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 13:59 | 1041270 Carl Spackler
Carl Spackler's picture

My hero, too.

He is now a symbol of courage and character.

Need more executives in government like him, rather than the spineless politicians we are so often shackled with.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:11 | 1040636 Ancona
Ancona's picture

It's abou ttime. These fucking unholy groups of thugs have held a knife at the throat of America for long enough. These coddled whiners will now get what the rest of us do.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:17 | 1040660 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

"These coddled whiners will now get what the rest of us do."

And what may that be? Slave wages and an ass fucking?

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:23 | 1040670 Gene Parmesan
Gene Parmesan's picture

You nailed it - we all sit here every day earning a slave's wage while getting ass fucked. Your grasp of reality is impressive.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:32 | 1040730 r101958
r101958's picture

A lay-off you @$$hat!

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 13:12 | 1040934 Milestones
Milestones's picture

Of the 154,000,000 in the USA workforce 12% are union members, or about 18.5 million. Wow! that sure be a mighty big knife there little fella. Next goal take over the world. Oops, Bankers already have a claim on that.      Milestones

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:11 | 1040639 kinetik
kinetik's picture

This ludicrous law won't survive its first challenge in court.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:21 | 1040683 Northeaster
Northeaster's picture

Yes it will. It is an established State Right, of which can be enacted or recinded (as we're seeing now) at the whim of any State Legislature.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:25 | 1040696 reescher
reescher's picture

While somehow collective thuggery and pillaging of those pulling the cart has continued to survive?

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:17 | 1040652 AN0NYM0US
AN0NYM0US's picture

Public sector unions have been been engaged in legalized extortion for decades and in that context this development is good. Having said that, this new era of austerity has in large part been brought on not by some garbageman retired at age 50 enjoying a pension @ 80% of his final three overtime filled years but by the dumping of trillions of bankster toxic waste onto the government's balance sheet and related policies to recapitalize the banks. To that end both Walker and the unions should have been headed to Wall Street from the get go.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:26 | 1040699 SME MOFO
SME MOFO's picture

NO Banker ever shoveled my street, picked up my garbage, or drove a hundred miles an hour on the Dan Ryan to sew my fingers back on. 

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:29 | 1040718 Gene Parmesan
Gene Parmesan's picture

Another brilliantly cogent, well-formed argument from the union supporters. How anybody can disagree with this logic is beyond me.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 13:14 | 1040952 Cow
Cow's picture


Fri, 03/11/2011 - 21:05 | 1042966 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Try this on for size:  None of these services have to be provided by Govt!

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:36 | 1040740 SME MOFO
SME MOFO's picture

what kind of asshole junked me.  someone who likes garbage and doesn't like fingers?

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 12:59 | 1040860 SME MOFO
SME MOFO's picture

Junked again! amazing.  Let's review the boot on your face.  Plenty of money for wars and 24/7 surveillance and fraudulent portfolio repair, but goddamn it if you get to pay risk free rates for govt guaranteed student loans or to see a doctor to get that rash looked at.  Nope, no money for that.  But plenty of money to park rows and rows and rows of jet planes in the desert outside of Tuscon waiting to be shredded into inch square aluminum foil.  This is the boot on your face, I know it's hard to read the label from that perspective but come on people, THIMK.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 13:06 | 1040909 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

This is the end result of democracy: once people realize they can vote themselves funding and jobs- they will. The problem is government funding. Whether bankers or public sector union jobs. It is all largess and at odds with the the discipline necessary for a productive economy.

Enjoy your present position, it will all turn to poverty as the productive members of the economy begin to enforce Gresham's law. They will withdraw from the system, live on less and leave you all hanging. 

People whom are accustomed to making a profit on their own, know how to protect themselves from the government. 

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 13:55 | 1040865 SME MOFO
SME MOFO's picture

All you hardy homesteaders can lick my balls.  They are smashing ants and they just haven't gotten to you yet.

Fri, 03/11/2011 - 13:24 | 1041028 Vergeltung
Vergeltung's picture

^^^  (look at him. aren't libtards wonderful!?)

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!