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It's Official: Wisconsin Gov. Walker Signs Bill Taking Away Public Worker Collective Bargaining Rights.
While the signature of Governor Walker to the Bill that had passed both the Senate and the Assembly, was inevitable, it is now also history. The first shot across the bow at America's unions is now official. What happens in Wisconsin next is anyone's guess. Probably nothing much. And any union member who may consider protesting today should carefully evaluate whether they should be doing so at the Senate building or on Wall Street/D.C. where the root of America's insolvency, and all of its financial problems stems from.
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Due to that crack, I'm not sharing my soup with you when all ZH readers end up in the FEMA camp. mmm soup
Our work, or Your (Big Brother) guns: Choose one, you cannot have both!
that's the point, the auterity being forced on the public sector unions is not due to their outrageous benefits but by the bankrupting of America by the banksters. Ireland is a great example where its government is insolvent and is enforcing auterity on its citizens when the insolvency is due to the actions of its banks and the transfer of their toxic crap from the banks' balance sheets to the government's balance sheet.
As many here are delighted (me included) that the public sector unions are now on notice most miss the big picture that they will be next as the banksters keep plundering.
To mix metaphors, Wisconsin was the beginning of a Tsunami generated by the corruption and fraud of Wall Street.
I'm with you anony. Workers beware! This is a warning in the age old struggle of the haves against the have nots. You as the individual, if you are working for a living have no chance against corporations, or any type of organized entity public or private.
This is not a fight to reduce taxes, this is a power grab.
Pensions are next, including social security.
Unless you are fortunate enough to have plenty stashed away, better choose sides carefully.
dude, what's a "pension"? wholly unfamiliar concept to those of us in the "Dreaded Private Sector."
Choosing sides? There ain't no more money to be had.
- Ned
You can't see past your nose. Fine, if you want to make a hypertechnical argument, then the bulk of the present printing, in an immediate sense, is due to support for financial institutions. However, what you are failing to recognize is that there are structural problems within states and municipalities that require the austerity measures already being implemented and a whole lot more. In other words, the two are not mutually exclusive and you're arguing form over substance. Arguing that the bankers are bigger welfare queens is not a sufficient response to the allegation that public employees, especially those unionized, are welfare queens. In the end, you both are and what is left of the private middle class is sick of paying for your sorry asses.
I'm with you anony. Workers beware! This is a warning in the age old struggle of the haves against the have nots. You as the individual, if you are working for a living have no chance against corporations, or any type of organized entity public or private.
This is not a fight to reduce taxes, this is a power grab.
Pensions are next, including social security.
Unless you are fortunate enough to have plenty stashed away, better choose sides carefully.
dude, what's a "pension"? wholly unfamiliar concept to those of us in the "Dreaded Private Sector."
Choosing sides? There ain't no more money to be had.
- Ned
the majority of non-union workers do those tasks everyday without taxpayer funds or bribing politicians
Oi... are you kidding me?
The issue isn't the services provided. The issue (to me anyway) is how we arrive at the amount of compensation for those services. And I'm pretty sure that allowing the guys that have no 'skin' in the game (the politicians) to negotiate these deals is what got us into this mess in the first place.
It might work to have these contracts put up on state ballots for a vote by the general electorate. At least "Management" would be involved. But to allow the politicians to do this and then let the unions contribute to their campaigns... are you serious? It's criminal and nothing less.
Your common sense approach to the situation isn't welcome here! Go for a long flight in your G4 over the open ocean with an empty fuel tank, banker scum!
Good news, Gene! The Govt is nationalizing your industry next in order to bring some o' that world-famous Govt efficiency and benevolence forward -- you lucky dog!
"The first shot across the bow at America's unions is now official. What happens in Wisconsin next is anyone's guess."
When the political process is corrupt, when a government ceases to represent the common man, and when the politicians demonstrate by their actions they are completely owned by billionaires and other statists, the people will move the debate from the capital and the court house to the streets. There are lessons to be learned from the events unfolding in the ME. Politicians better start paying attention.
Whocouldanode? The dance should commence fairly shortly. Milestones
Promises, promises! Just be sure to take the riot to Wall St. or Washington DC, where your real enemies reside!
"The first shot across the bow at America's unions is now official."
what do you mean? American workers union died along with manufacturing sector in the 20th century. Only union remaining are toothless tigers of janitors, grave-diggers, doorman, taxi-drivers, etc and oh, the federal/state workers.
While the phrase "general strike" causes the Left's collective heart to flutter, the actual event will only harden opposition to all unions, rather than just the PEUs. Also, a "recall" merely invites a repeat of the recent election, it does not actually recall the official involved. When the winners of the lsat election win again, where will that leave the Left?
In leftfield?
Walker has "dead eyes."
And kind of a wide stance, now that I look closely...
the howling you hear is partly politicians who worry about future bribe flow
Exactly! 50 years of money flow from taxpayers through corrupt public unions and into the pockets of corrupt politicians just ended. Sadly, it didn't happen for the right reasons. It happened because there just is nothing left to steal.
exactly, nothing left to steal.. well maybe there are a few things: private pensions perhaps, a few more years of ZIRP, a currency getting weaker and weaker, continued pressure on home prices, higher food costs, higher energy costs...
When I think about it, there's lots left to steal and plunder
Slart, you obviously have no idea what nothing means.
Look out, they are coming for what you have left.
Do you have a job? Are you making more than the average 3rd world worker? Do you get the drift yet?
Oh, don't worry, I am sure the Koch Bros will be generous.
13. Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it. In conflict tactics there are certain rules that [should be regarded] as universalities. One is that the opposition must be singled out as the target and 'frozen.'...
Fucking commies.
I see this thread is going to spin into the realm of the ridiculous. No point in reading or posting any further.
Trash away ladies.
I wonder how many protesters missed work.....
Gov. Walker must be relieved that the Koch Bros will be removing their fat paws from his Upper G.I. tract. A Ventrloquist's dummy is a hard gig.
The beginning of the end of union thuggery.
Kudos to Gov. Walker for having the ballz to do the right thing.
For you SMF's out there who think that the unions are right, may your pension fail, and may your taxes rise accordingly.
Unions CAN NOT collectively bargain with politicians because they sit on the same side of the table. If you see it any other way, then you fail to understand the root of the problem.
+1
Thanks for the props, treemagnet! It's good to know that some common sense about CB with unions is alive and well.
I will wear my 'junks' as a badge of honor from the mentally challenged union trolls proudly!
+1 Walker showed a lot of courage
"The first shot across the bow at America's unions is now official."
Actually the first was not at the unions but at any who hold American currency and counted on a fair rate of return. The problem is that few heard that shot that was fired sometime in early 2009.
This most recent "shot across the bow" at the unions (well deserved but not for the obvious reasons) will be followed by yet another aimed at any who have a stake in America's bankrupt entitlement programs.
The first skirmish in a upcoming, long, hand-to-hand class war. Many deserving (politicians, bankers, etc) and very many undeserving citizens of this country will suffer.
Hopefully the US will survive and be better in the end.
Fascism needs an existential threat. External works best but internal enemies ae quite useful.
Unions? really? that's the playbook from 1890. Ignorance is a commodity we'll never run out of. It's one hell of a cash cow. Ask news corp.
Pay attention people, this is low grade divide and conquer.
+ 1 incon!
I see that Divide and Conquer is working well here today.
Carry on, if you must.
My only problem with any sort of reform is that it is the Republicans doing it. Somehow money will leave my pocket and go to a big corporation and I will end up eating more poisoned food.
Quin, you are much more right than you realize.
Corporations insulated by government, also known as wrapped in an American flag.
You can bet your ass that fraud street will get a refund while the rest of middle class suckers pay and pay and pay.
There is only one way out, stop doing business with the Fortune 500 and quit paying taxes.
The insurance business is entrenched in the law, next is agriculture (carbon credit bingo) and 401k giveaways to the same thugs.
Peace.
Let em strike. Fire them and hire in replacements.
20+% real unemployment and fucktards think a strike is going to WORK?
Private unions are debatable but I'm still not too fond of them.
Public unions are a taxpayers assfuck tool. FLUSH them.
Amen and amen!
Police and Fire were exempt. Keep the cops (trigger) happy and put out fires when people riot?
In all fairness, they should certainly be included because they have some of the most costly benefits.
Police and Fire should be downsized along w/ everything else.
And that way, when the people show up in an annoyed frame of mind at the homes of the elite, well ...
The Punk fascist, should resign and go work for Ben Bernanke.
Why?
They're on the same fucking side!
Cut ---> Reduce salaries, wages, (and benefits...say a teacher benefit would be....smaller class sizes, better textbooks...that's part of collective bargaining you know)---> Now they can pay more off (now and future)
So when the next round of bailouts hits....they have the 'mechanism' in place to push more austerity on them.
So more bailouts ---> more inflation --> more fucked up budget --> more 'cuts' to wages and benefits ---> pay off more fruaudlent debt.
You know like that old 'Koch' commercial...I work harder...so I get paid more money...so I can snort more 'koch', so I can work harder....so I get paid more...so I can do more 'koch'.
A fascist traitor, on ben bernanke and the banksters side, complicit with the fraud, and a complete dumbshit.
That's Gov. Hosni Mubarak Walker. Get to know the new reality. Tea Party? What good is it, and how patriotic is it (it isn't) if it puts nothing but fascist banksters in power? Lucy!!!! The Tea party has some 'splaining to do.
Do socialist state employees work for taxpayers or do the taxpayers work for them?
Do state employees vote for Democrats? Yes.
Do Democrats then provide largess (great pensions/benefits) to state employees? Yes.
Get a grip, comrade.
Wow, that made a lot of sense. I can rant like an idiot, and make no cogent point either.
The tea party is about lower taxes (more money in the hands of th PEOPLE that you are talking about), smaller government (less money in the hands of the fascist traitors that you are talking about), and a return to Constitutional law (you know, actually following the laws that are stated). Quit being a schill for the media and leftist idiots and THINK for once.
Well said.
The tea party is just a mob remote controlled by the Koch brothers.
They are the "useful idiots" as Lenin would say.
They pretend to be an opposition while in reality they are not.
Their revolutionary spirit has been totally hijacked by the Koch brothers and now they are fighting for the goals of the very establishment they originally wanted to remove from office.
And secretly the Koch Brothers are meeting with Wallstreet billionaires like Stephen Schwarzman.
They want to create a global oligarchy, with you and me as slaves.
The only way to get rid of the oligarchy will probably be the hard way, like it or not.
Sooo, anarchy? Is that our option? With people like Al Gore, Michael Moore, Nancy Pelosi, and Harry Reid leading the charge? Or maybe a crazy idiot conspiracy theorist such as yourself?
Why don't you just say that you are an astroturfer, probably working for "Americans for prosperity" or "FreedomWorks" ?
Dick Armey is a worthless asshole, by the way.
Had we still the SS here in Germany, they would have known how to deal with these kinds of people like the Koch brothers or Armey.
They would have both lined up against the wall and eliminated in the blink of an eye.
A-hahahahaha !
Quit posting the same marxist bullshit twice. Once is enough.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_argument
Your knowledge of American politics wouldnt fill a bottle cap.
German resentment against paying for the entitlements of Greeks and others is also on the rise- I suppose those in your country who are growing tired of paying for the early and comfortable retirements of civil servants in Athens in your country are also the astroturf funded slaves of the Koch brothers?
Someone who leads-off with a "Koch Bros." reference has a lot of nerve accusing someone else of astroturfing.
Why don't you just say that you are an astroturfer, probably working for "Americans for prosperity" or "FreedomWorks" ?
Dick Armey is a worthless asshole, by the way.
Had we still the SS here in Germany, they would have known how to deal with these kinds of people like the Koch brothers or Armey.
They would have both lined up against the wall and eliminated in the blink of an eye.
A-hahahahaha !
it gets stupider when it is double posted. - Ned
Alinsky would be sad at how amateurish the useful idiots have become.
u pickin' up on the tell too?
They're leaving too many of the same fingerprints.
Amateurs.
Unions will continue to lose power as the general public increasingly realizes how corrupt they really are.
bargaining with the collective , not sure why the root of the problem is not addressed, get the state out of education.
Any funding ran through the state is a politicians wet dream and is wasted.
Education is at most a county affair, if the gov had any backbone and was not a corporate shill and thus wishing to maintain control over the taxpayer funded rape via "the chillins" he would dump the whole sordid cesspool.
If corruption must be and it must then at least keep it face to face at the most local level.
tempest in a teapot, instead of unions thugs getting money it will just go to some corporate "private" interest.
Same ol same ol.
I have heard the bill mainly gets rid of tenure enabling the system to keep the best teachers?
The parasite, speaking of the government as a whole, has grown larger than the host.
consider the arguments of the left: name calling, cursing and personal attacks - right out of the soros playbook
...........................
as opposed to what, your total foolishness!
Worry less about the playbook and more about the players.
Pox on both of ya!
Alinsky's Rules For Radicals is their playbook. Soros is just their sugar daddy.
Good thing Jim Rogers broke away from that Communist.
George Soros has no nation. No one wants his thieving tentacles!
God bless
Would somebody on here who's bashing the Koch brothers be so kind as to share their views on George Soros? Is he OK, or just as bad?
As I read through the posts it is instructive to point out that this argument (Public workers get something for nothing and should suffer like private workers) is EXACTLY what the elites want labor to do. It is the old "divide and conquer" strategy. WAKE UP people. Unless you are one of the filty rich elites, you need to see through this strategy. Labor needs to support itself across the board. Workers Unite!!!
El Dupe
You sound like a simpleton, you really do not think in these terms do you?
What does just as bad mean, do you know any of the people you wish to see others compare?
have you done any fact finding of your own beyond some blow-dried talking head on one of the owned media outlets?
Maybe you should share your knowledge as it may help others to see the error of their thinking.
I sound like a simpleton because I'm trying to get down to the level of the folks pointing fingers at the Kochs so I can try to understand their perspective. Is it hypocrisy? Are they against meddling by the ultra-elite on both sides?
I can't believe I'm explaining myself to someone who went with the name "karzai_luver."
And if you don't mind, would you share your view of Soros with us? Is he cool, or part of the problem?
It would have been far easier politically for Walker and the legislature to kick the can down the road some more or heavily compromise. But they didn't. And it's tough to blame that all on the demon-of-the-week Koch brothers.
The fat pay and benefit packages secured by public employee unions across the country are simply not sustainable given economic reality. Despite what they claim, they won't get off that gravy train voluntarily.
The heart of the injustice is when politicians cave to unions and guarantee contracts well into the future that they will no longer be in office to deal with. Finally someone has to be the "bad guy" and say enough is enough, we can't afford it, and it's not fair to pass on the debt to the next generation just so public employee union members can get free health care. Time to grow up and face reality.
After Wisconsin Senate Democrats tried to thwart the bill by running away from home like angst-swollen adolescents, the dripping hypocrisy of the union folks talking about violations of the democratic process is utterly laughable.
For those who think this is just a matter of divide and conquer, succombing to the desires of bankers and politicians that we fight amongst ourselves instead of directing rage at them, I see the point. However, the broader issue here is that when there are entire groups of people who are dependent upon and encouraging the continuance of the financial ponzi scheme of inflating fiat currency and bailouts in order to save their own asses, they in essence are becoming the foot soldiers for the bankers. And thus, standing against their demands that they should be treated as a privileged class and benefit from an endless firehose of public funds is consistent with standing against the bankers themselves. Both are the enemy of the liberty-loving individual who wants to operate in a free market without endless confiscation of their wealth and freedom.
+1
so you advocate placing your head FIRST on the chopping block inhopes that the next to arrive would be those who benefited first and most from the crimes you outline OR do I mistake your sentiments?
If not YOU first I will be RIGHT behind you and meangene although the time may be delayed just a wee bit.
your sacrifce will be noted. cheers now off with their heads boys.
p.s. those who confiscate first do it best.
Where did he say he wanted his head on the block first? Your reading comprehension sucks.
mean gene , he didn't say that, do you have any clue?
Did your 6th grader have to pull up this site for you?
The question is since he wanted OTHERS heads on the chopping block under this system why would it not be fair to ask him to go there since he is a beneficiary of the same corrupt system.
You really are as dense as I thought.
P.s. still waiting on your elucidation of the Kochs v Soros.
I will caution you that some have worked with one or the other.
Did the captcha malfunction?
The entire point is that for the rest of society, our heads ARE on the chopping block. We can be fired at any time if we don't do a good job, or our business can fold if we are sole proprieters. Our health care premiums can be raised by our employers if financial conditions require it, or for business owners the cost can increase and there is no going to steal from fellow citizens to pay for it. That is the real world, where people struggle through difficult economic times.
And what a stark comparison that economic reality is compared to the cushy world of guaranteed public sector union jobs and benefits. And oh how the little piggies squeel if a single spoonful of slop is removed from their government trough.
The illusion is finally starting to evaporate, and if it wasn't Walker that did it, it would have been someone else down the line who was forced to, when conditions would have been worse.
Do all you rich right wing assholes who post here, know the French Revolution was carried out by less than 10% of the population of France? All we need are 35 million pissed off people and we will be lighting our torches and sharpening the tines of our pitchforks so we can stick your fat asses easier! How many pissed off unemployed do we have already?
1) You don't need to be a rich ring-wing asshole to love liberty and be opposed to the government confiscating your wealth so they can pass it out to mediocre union workers
2) The legislation in question will actually result in fewer job losses for WI public employees than would have otherwise been necessary.
to advocate fair play under a corrupt system is well, just mediocre thinking or childish.
Try a blue or black pill, your red ones are not helping.
I see redpillboy and meangene have hit the wall so to speak.
try agin over at YAHOO.
:)
Grow up already. That there are a plethora of other problems with our society and economy do not justify public sector employee unions looting public coffers in a never ending spiral of debt and over-obligation. You're attempting to deflect the issue instead of confronting the immorality of fiscally enslaving future taxpayers with obligations they never would have a chance to vote for or against.
You're a breath of fresh air in this thread, redpill. Thanks.
Purple
Bravo, baldski. Well said, comrade !
This is a war of the oligarchy against the rest of the population.
Beware of "astroturfers" on these blogs, they are also on the Daily telegraph !
If you don't know what "astroturfing" is, google for it.
Bravo, baldski. Well said, comrade !
This is a war of the oligarchy against the rest of the population.
Beware of "astroturfers" on these blogs, they are also on the Daily telegraph !
If you don't know what "astroturfing" is, google for it.
Frankie, ya got the double-post-Jones-thing goin' on. Please clean up after yourself. - Ned
Yeah, you're right. The ones leading the charge to cut off heads would be those evil taxpayers. Those darn productive people who actually work. Don't blame the union leaders who have 5 houses and live like total fatcats off you sheep who think you need a union and give 6% of your income to those crooks. If you want a "revolution", start with the union leaders who have been using you so they don't have to work.
You are crazy!
And remember the Great Reign of Terror after the French Revolution if you did not conform to the new whims of Robespierre?
and some quotes:
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/maximilien_robespierre.html
One can be anti Marxist-unions AND anti Corpratist-banksters - I would be willing to bet that most of us here are both, and that does not make anyone "right wing" - it makes some of us Minarchist Libertarians (yours truly) and others Anarcho-Capitalists (similar to Murray Rothbard) and neither left or right; they are both upward/north. So keep spewing the "left wing" and "ring wing" garbage, but all of that just leads you further downward/south towards the misery of authoritarianism and collectivism. But you are better off spewing this garbage on either huffington post and/or politico... you will fit in either way. Good luck with that you drone.
Oh yes, and this is America... no one is affraid of you and your torches or pitchforks (whether you are a Marxist "worker" or a Corpratist bankster).
+14,000,000,000,000
As I read through the posts it is instructive to point out that this argument (Public workers get something for nothing and should suffer like private workers) is EXACTLY what the elites want labor to do. It is the old "divide and conquer" strategy. WAKE UP people. Unless you are one of the filty rich elites, you need to see through this strategy. Labor needs to support itself across the board. Workers Unite!!!
Governments / public unions / Fed-CBs. Pretty much one in the same, they are the problem.
I wanna be an "elite". Are there good benefits?
Someone above wrote about the filty elite - sounds intriguing.
If we joined your ranks, the state would be bankrupt since no one was left to produce. As a result, we cannot unite. (the fact that the state is bankrupt anyway aside).
It has nothing to do with a divide and conquer strategy. Rather, the banksters (TBTF) are the last of the welfare queens to get the boot. Ultimately, all will given rudimentary math... it's not an either or proposition. It only appears that way because one is on the chopping block before the other...
Real labor will not unite when jobs are scarce... and scarce because of structural issues that do not require their labor to meet society's needs... or, at the very least, need their labor at previous levels, entitlements/retirements included.
I know, I know, we aren't allowed to call you "communists" anymore.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workers_of_the_world,_unite!
The union thugs in my state are filthy rich elites ...
Title incorrect.
It's Official: Wisconsin Gov. Walker Signs Bill Taking Away Public Worker Collective Bargaining.
There, I fixed it for you.
+1--was thinking along those lines. AP, Bloomberg, other MSM also using the "rights" meme.
How can any legislation take away "rights?"
- Ned
In general, all legislation either takes or grants a right... take speed limits for example... without a speed limit, you have a right to drive as fast as you want... with a speed limit you only have a right to drive as fast as the speed limit... or otherwise face jail/batton rape (in other words, you lose the right to peaceably drive between as fast as your suicide machine will take you and the speed limit). In the present case, the legislation takes away the right for public employees to collectively bargain... am I missing something here?
Just because it is not in the bill of rights or our inherent rights as man, does not mean that people were previously granted a right... through statute... or the lack thereof... and this right has been withdrawn by the state...
Anyone have a link to the actual bill (text of legislation) passed? I'm tired of getting MSM extracts and interpretations, I want to see what is actually there.
I did not know that the ability to collective bargain was a "right".
of course that's true as there are NO RIGHTS beyond what you are willing to take by any means that may be required.
It's false to think anyone or thing gives you rights.
If our legal system allows us to do it, then it is a right... this is as basic of a definition as you can get... different types of rights have different levels of importance, hence the need to make some constitutionally mandated. Whether they're legal rights or natural rights, they're rights the same...
On Wisconsin! Well done, gov.
this is a great moment. love it!!
And a book of Death threats, families and all.
These folks act like the world came to an end for them.
Fancy of them to FINALLY have to bargain for raises,and buy all the things WE HAVE forever,instead of FREEBIES.
Cry me a river of tears....................
These supposed threats are as phony as the ones the Democrats conjured up in the aftermath of Obozocare.
the real question for zh'rs is whether or not public unions' hold on their collective bargaining priveleges will help counteract or entrench the powers' wielded by the banksters in the long run.
ook at europe and look at the u.k. it's not an easy question to answer as black and white. there ARE shades of gray in it.
for one, they are middle class who tend to vote democrat. gut them and you gut a political party that supports the banks, but that also apparently acts as a counterweight to the republican's who would sell their unborn fetuses to the banks so long as there was a free market for fetuses, i'm sorry , i meant for future generations of americans, woops.
on the other hand, public unions are , on average, composed of people of below average intelligence and motivation, and above average violence and short tempers. these are precisely the type of people that would riot against the government if they actually went hungry, as opposed to the kind of lame resistance they put up towards being stripped of their collective bargaining rights. these useful peons could be more threatening to the banksers if they were violent and angry due to unemployment and impoverishment.
really, this is a question about the 'system'.
within the context of an ongoing system that some of we may believe is necessary to remain stable and 'amerikan' , the unions existence helps apparently counterbalance the banks by empowering the party of socially liberal politicaly correct banksters (democrats).
. however, if you believe the only way to bring an end to the criminal banking system that has captured the treasury, known as the federal reserve and wall street, is to bring an end to the entire establishment , including the dollar system and the government as a whole, then more deep revolutionary minded malcontents are necessary. Public unions' continued power actually props up this system by contuining to support a zombie class of employees that will fight tooth and nail against anyone calling for an end to the system at large.unknowingly protecting the banksters who keep them on welfare hostage support, they develop a class version of stockholm syndrome. a modern version of medieval patronage/feudalism.
My personal position on this issue should be apprent, however i genuinely believe there is room for doubt as to whether my position is correct in the long run. Anyone who gives you an answer of certainty on this one is full of crap. Only the long run results of this situation will reveal the truth. however, in taking a 'side' on this issue. one must way the risks to being wrong. and the decision to accept those risks really is characterized by personality traits.
if you are wrong about supporting public unions, you will drag out a long term painful process by which an increasingly diminishing group of people (public union employees)gain larger and larger amounts of income relative to the rest of us. if, eventually, the system collapses, this group will eventually be funneled into the next recreation of government and society, attempting to re-establish their place in the next republic.
if you are wrong about gutting public unions, you are helping accelerate a total demolishin of the middle class, a process, which by all accounts, is well into the advanced stage. it would be like pushing a boulder that is already travelling down hill (in my humble opinion).
you also would be weakening the grip of ACKNOWLEDGED CRIMINAL UNION BOSSES, at the expense of the banksters who thrive on cheap labor and on criminal behavior. while union bosses probably cut deals with wall street , they also make most activity in america more expensive. if you are wrong about going against public unions, you will also be helping advance the destruction of private unions. on one hand the security of the american working classes depends on unions in large part. on the other, unions have done nothing to prevent outsourcing of non-service sector employment, and the service sector is precisely what is DESTROYING american productivity, which is rooted in the tech and manufacturing sectors.
i am more comfortable with being wrong about gutting unions than i am about being wrong in supporting them. i am not your average person. i would rather see a world where angelo mozillo is hung on a gallows and the rockefellers are brought to justice, than a world where they get their way and americans continue to get welfare, but then wind up in another series of wars.
it's really about how comfortable you are with the risks of being wrong.
i know this is a giant ramble. feel free to edit it and repost somewhere as your own.
@bklawr
"i would rather see a world where angelo mozillo is hung on a gallows and the rockefellers are brought to justice, than a world where they get their way and americans continue to get welfare, but then wind up in another series of wars."
I could pick and choose points among your thoughts, but I am willing to take your above line as a just outcome on all sides.
BRING IT!
you miss entirely that publlic workers who work for the government are the government and public unions in essence are the goveernment as well. Your whole argument is based on a false pretense that the government workers and the government are a seperate entity. Another fales prentense.. the Democratic party and the public unions are a seperate entity.
ah the red blue game again.
amazing many who are stuck there forever it seems.
Speak for yourself as anyone who thinks that any political party is not one and the same with it's bankrollers is delusional.
You are stuck at the point of thinking that the gvt is the system it seems.
you assume too much looking through those blue glasses of yours. I have disdain for either party that wants to hand out tax dollars to leeches wether they be rich leeches(banksters) or union leeches and public employees.
The elites love this little show... the plebes bickering over scraps while they inflate your money into a mere wisp of a currency. Even the commenters at ZH, who have seen the man behind the curtain get sucked in.
Go to the FED and raise hell. Tahrir Square style.
One small win for the tax payers. Abolish collective bargaining.
One small win for the tax payers. Abolish collective bargaining.
bwahahahaha
get a real job paying $15 bucks an hour while paying half of your medical, dental & vision with no family discounting & with an employer match 401K retirement account, then you can whine
Better yet, then they can stop voting for the party perpetuating the entitlement/welfare state like the rest of us.
....and people from China, India & the other 3rd world shitholes lining up to underbid you
...and treacherous corporate owners who love money ready to hand it all over to them...
now you can whine
Our long national nightmare is over!
Or just begun, take your pick.
for those who know any real changes have to come from events such as these and they are only JUST starting and more and bigger ones to come, this is not a nightmare , but a sunrise.
A true "Morning in America" finally.
America is bankrupt and it is understandable that a broke government is going after public sector workers. I would support these efforts if some government agency/official/party would go after and jail just one fucking banker that trashed the economy. Instead we have governments extending the tax increase to the wealthiest Americans and the US taxpayer expected to eat the TBTF bank mess while they are back to record bonuses.
That anybody is left in America to blame unions for the mess means that stupidity still abounds amongst the serfs. They are either too stupid to recognize they are being bent over and f@#ked or they are astroturfing. Can people be that stupid to not recognize how the wealthy are using them?
Anybody who supports Walker is either 'stupid man walking' or paid to post.
Americans trashed the economy as they were sheep to the bankers swill.
But , Americans did it, not some terrorist group or CHina or Greece or the FED.
Americans did it.
Some will have to pay for it and sooner the better.
I don't think it really matters at the beginning of the pain as it will all work back to the top or bottom.
Stupid, huh? Let's break down your first two sentences.
Your first sentence seems to say that the attack on public sector workers is understandable (leaving alone the fact that the government is only following through with the Wisconsin voters' mandate of November - this isn't the government acting out of spite). I assume you're talking about Wisonsin's state government, because Obama is trying to dig the hole deeper with his support of unionizing the TSA goons.
Your second sentence says that you would support the move if some other government agency or official (at the federal level, presumably) would go after the banks.
The federal government has made it abundantly clear that they have no interest in going after the banks, so, by your logic, that means that a state shouldn't then be able to take other steps to protect the overwhelming majority of its own taxpaying citizens? Huh? What the hell does one have to do with the other? Nobody is allowed to address fiscal issues at a state level until the feds crack down on Wall St? And you're calling us stupid?
Ah, I see, Washington's not going to lift a finger against the banks so it's automagically happy fun time?
That seems to be the union supporters' position. Doesn't seem to make much sense though.
Well said.
How about one fucking banker for every one fucking union thug.
Walker will not survive this attack on unions... this is ideological class warfare, and those that support him are complicit... 70% of the WI electorate strongly disagree with this action, and democracy will win in the end.
This stale old "divide and conquer" Rove playbook move has sealed the 2012 election for President Obama, and has awakened the silent Democratic base in America... it's game on Ladies and Gentlemen.
You're out of your mind.
Silent Democratic base in America? You mean the unions? Because I'm pretty sure you're not talking about the black panthers.
Loony left, indeed.
The taxpayers in Wisconsin are breaking up a monopoly and taking back their state from the union robberbarons, who have abused their taxpayer-given privilege to collectively bargin.
Walker will thrive now that this is law. The polls show that the voters were unhappy with the status quo and no real action by the new governor. Now the state got action, and the polls will change back.
The governor's real worry was if he didn't get a budget-cutting bill enacted into law.
Useful idiots all... and the Koch sucking Governor thanks you... fortunately, 70% of the people who actually live, and vote, in WI do not agree with you.
BTW... hate to let the facts get in the way, but he did not pass his budget (you may want to get that straight before you comment on it publicly... not great for your credibility). This bill removes collective bargaining only (the goal of the national GOP all along) it has zero affect regarding the budget gap he "created" through gifting his corporate handlers.
Useful, illinformed idiots (we're countin' on ya)... thanks!
Killing collective bargaining is a fantastic start. Hopefully it catches on.
(I hope I don't get deleted.)
I LOVE THIS DRAMA!
MAKE THEM ALL SUFFER!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5Hv0tsvpyU
FDR was right about the public sector.
At least these commies FIGHT BACK! Got to respect them.
RULE OF LAW!
It is inherently America to take to the streets and demand change in the government!
God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, & always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. - Thomas Jefferson
Let us start the revolution, here and now.
Remember> an internet blogger set Tunisia off...
http://ahumanright.org/blog/2011/01/tunisia-how-the-internet-overthrow-a...
Get ready folks. Buckle up.
Total economic collapse is coming!
Governments have always had to buy support with their public sector. The fact that states are so broke that they are attacking the public sector illustrates how bad the situation is. Once you lose support of your staff, you're doomed. Once the public sector throughout America understand that they are next in line for a haircut from the politicians, the revolution starts. Walker didn't go after the police and the firemen (two of the highest paid and costly groups of public sector workers) because the government needs the baton squad. Watch the G20 riot footage from Toronto on Youtube to see how the police follow orders when they are paid to. Once you are too broke to pay the police, you might as well pack up and catch the first jet out of the country.
Gene Parmesan perfect example of 'stupid man walking'.
Back to the name calling I see. I suppose it is easier than trying to hold up the losing end of an intellectual debate.
well there is always the junk meangene!
ha ha.
intel , i laugh, you kill me!
Gene, there is no point trying to explain things to a stupid man. They just don't get it. If you can't figure out that the middle class, both public and private sector, have every right to be rioting as their government forces them to eat the TBTF bank collapses, while the bankster CEOs are back to handing themselves big bonuses, is just too stupid to understand anything.
If this is your point then we're on the same side. My challenge to your first post above was a statement that the failure of the federal government to prosecute the TBTF banks really has nothing whatsoever to do with Wisconsin rightly stripping collective bargaining rights from public employee unions. I thought I was pretty clear on that, but then again, I'm the stupid one, right?
By the way - if you hit "reply" under a post you can maintain the conversation string. Not bad for somebody as stupid as me, huh?
and prosecution in the states has nothing to do with it?
Yeah right.
Like I said, offering to take the hit to save a failed system is nuts and you would not do it either as you point out in your postings.
So fighting over the spoils that are left and there are some is the only way to go and wanting others to lay down so you can feast isn't and never does cut it.
Prepare if you have not already.
You think by accepting these cuts that the FEDS will spring the cuffs?
Really, so you make your own point moot.
Cutting for some won't change it since the bigger criminals are still on the loose so there is no self-interest in taking your path.
It's totally a symbolic gesture.
I want you to tell me what you expect the state of Wisconsin to do about Wall St, and how that fruit is hanging lower than the public labor union fruit. You've otherwise strung together an impressive set of logic jumps. Keep it up.
Like I said, offering to take the hit to save a failed system is nuts and you would not do it either as you point out in your postings.
So fighting over the spoils that are left and there are some is the only way to go and wanting others to lay down so you can feast isn't and never does cut it.
I'm not sure if you've been asleep for the last three years, but let me explain something as clear as I possibly can (picture me talking to you really slowly)... THE... PRIVATE... SECTOR... HAS... ALREADY... TAKEN... A... HIT... MUCH... MORE... SEVERE... THAN... PUBLIC... EMPLOYEES. In other words, this has nothing to do with "forced altruism" and everything to do with rudimentary math and not being a protected class of american society.
I fully understand that you do not appreciate actually having to face austerity like the rest of us. However, what you have to understand is that we do not care and we pay your salary.
the dollars to pay these public employees come from private pockets, where all productive capacity comes from. The govt only redistributes what they take from others.
In this case the govt. of Wisconsin has said it will no longer take from private wallets as much to support an inflated public sector income with benefits.
For every inflated income there has to be someone else somewhere that lives far below the median.