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It's Really On: JPM Tells CNBC It Is Systematically Reviewing Foreclosures

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Update: BN  *JPMORGAN ASKS JUDGES TO DELAY RULINGS IN `PENDING MATTERS'.

We predict that within a week, all banks will halt every foreclosure currently in process. Within a month, all foreclosures executed within the past 2-3 years will be retried, and millions of existing home sales will be put in jeopardy.

And like that, mortgage fraud goes global. JPM stock down on the news, as the American foreclosure process is now effectively shut down. More as we get it.

 

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Wed, 09/29/2010 - 15:46 | 613328 goldmiddelfinger
goldmiddelfinger's picture

Numerous divergences and trend breaks 15m ES. Way to go Jp Mo

Fri, 08/05/2011 - 05:51 | 1526020 cindycheng
cindycheng's picture

I want to express my admiration of your writing skill and ability to make readers read from the beginning to the end. I would like to read newer posts and to share my thoughts with you. oilseed expeller

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 15:47 | 613330 MrMorden
MrMorden's picture

Squatters, bitchez!  

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 15:54 | 613362 andybev01
andybev01's picture

Squatters with iPods!

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 15:56 | 613368 Vergeltung
Vergeltung's picture

lol

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 17:07 | 613630 The Rock
The Rock's picture

...and iphones and ipads and blackberries and netbooks and 3D LED HDTVs and ...

S.W.A. - Squatters with Attitudes (not Southwest Airlines)... 

Thu, 09/30/2010 - 06:48 | 615006 snowball777
snowball777's picture

And brain cancer, and pancreatic cancer, and...

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 16:18 | 613463 Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

un-junk

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 16:41 | 613538 breezer1
breezer1's picture

i wore a dress to the bar once. i didn't have to buy a beer all night. wife won't let me have it anymore, says i just come home drunk.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 21:29 | 614300 NoVolumeMeltup
NoVolumeMeltup's picture

I am intrigued by your ideas and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 23:33 | 614518 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

Bawney, "Hot Bottom" will be so jealous. ;-0

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 17:09 | 613635 kathy.chamberli...
kathy.chamberlin@gmail.com's picture

is that you cogdog? i never seen you in a dress, but  bet you have one.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 17:32 | 613721 Commander Cody
Commander Cody's picture

Many gays wearing dresses on this site, including a few females I bet.  If you are offended, then leave.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 18:13 | 613829 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

But when you wear a dress life is so free and airy. Plus you can accessorize (not as good in written form without the inflection).

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 18:27 | 613866 kathy.chamberli...
kathy.chamberlin@gmail.com's picture

dresses, skirts and high heel, bitches†

bet a lot of you guyz, seriously, would like to dress up.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 23:35 | 614523 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

what's it like, I've never been that way before.

-- Ned

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 18:26 | 613836 akak
akak's picture

you are gay, flaming homo who wears dresses

And you are clearly a repressed, personalityless drone who wears the prison uniform commonly known as the business suit.

But thank you for the most puerile and inane comment ever posted on ZeroHedge, next to the textual diarrhea of HarryWanger and JohnnyBravo.  I do believe that 45 junks (and counting!) are a new record here.

 

PS: Whatever happened to the virilently pro-Wall Street trolling of HarryWanger?  His few posts lately that I have seen have been positively tepid in comparison to his former radical bullishness.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 21:25 | 614287 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

whoa! and thank you akak for helping some of us late-comers to make sense of this string. . .

tho' of course, not everyone here makes sense even with interps. . .

Thu, 09/30/2010 - 02:46 | 614799 nuinut
nuinut's picture

seconded, on both points.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 23:21 | 614498 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

"Squatters, bitchez!"

Fraudulent MBS and Foreclosures from JPM, bitchez...

      Jail for Jamie Dimon, bitchez...

           Madoff time bitchez...

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 15:49 | 613336 Turd Ferguson
Turd Ferguson's picture

SWEET!

Looks like I'm not going to have to make my October mortgage payment after all.

Daddy's headed to Vegas!

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 15:56 | 613365 Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

What are you talking about?  Vegas?

Vegas.

What Vegas?

We're going to Vegas.

When?

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 16:04 | 613403 Turd Ferguson
Turd Ferguson's picture

Jack Daniels, blackjack & strippers.

Though not necessarily in that order.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 16:40 | 613533 ZackAttack
ZackAttack's picture

Jack Daniels, blackjack & strippers.

Then, the rest of it, you'll just blow.

 

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 17:16 | 613664 Joeman34
Joeman34's picture

Zack, by my estimation, 3/4 of your comments on this site contain some reference to cocaine.  I think it's time to consider you may have a problem...

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 20:32 | 614187 chopper read
chopper read's picture

who junks this?  its a classic.

"i spent most my money on booze and women, and the rest i just sqaundered."

 

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 20:32 | 614189 chopper read
chopper read's picture

who junks this?  its a classic.

"i spent most my money on booze and women, and the rest i just sqaundered."

 

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 20:33 | 614190 chopper read
chopper read's picture

who junks this?  its a classic.

"i spent most my money on booze and women, and the rest i just sqaundered."

 

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 20:33 | 614191 chopper read
chopper read's picture

who junks this?  its a classic.

"i spent most my money on booze and women, and the rest i just sqaundered."

 

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 23:37 | 614526 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

kinda' got it the first time ;-)

Thu, 09/30/2010 - 15:59 | 616471 chopper read
chopper read's picture

me system went 'jihad'.

Thu, 09/30/2010 - 00:15 | 614597 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Whoa. Glitch in the Matrix. Matrix.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 16:43 | 613545 breezer1
breezer1's picture

i thought it was closed.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 17:10 | 613643 kathy.chamberli...
kathy.chamberlin@gmail.com's picture

turd obviously your probaly a dude wanting strippers. but can you tell me what a woman would want. jack daniels/vodka, ...............  &     ??????????????

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 17:29 | 613704 Commander Cody
Commander Cody's picture

$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 18:26 | 613860 Sausagemaker
Sausagemaker's picture

a) Diamonds

b) Shoes

c) Sven the Swole-up Swedish Masseuse 

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 21:33 | 614310 NoVolumeMeltup
NoVolumeMeltup's picture

someone to notice her and pretend her inane ramblings about the Fall TV lineup is interesting.

Thu, 09/30/2010 - 00:16 | 614599 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

ding ding ding

Thu, 09/30/2010 - 00:45 | 614642 MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

I think you may have just explained to me why I'm usually alone.

Thu, 09/30/2010 - 02:04 | 614754 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Most women just want someone to really listen to them and care that they exist -- sorry ladies, I'm already married (coming up on 26 years).

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 17:40 | 613739 still kicking
still kicking's picture

That's actually my preferred order, I like to be drunk and either happy because I won or depressed because I lost before I go see the strippers.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 17:05 | 613621 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Damn, I knew I was being stupid when I paid off my house in cash.

Oh well.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 17:54 | 613773 puckles
puckles's picture

No kidding.  I've been feeling that way for a while now.  Who knew?  And if this doesn't work, there's always hyperinflation...

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 18:25 | 613856 Iam_Silverman
Iam_Silverman's picture

No kidding!  Debt free here, and no iPad, iPod or any iThing!

Maybe I can kid myself about the honor in satisfying my committments and being a man of my word?

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 18:30 | 613872 kathy.chamberli...
kathy.chamberlin@gmail.com's picture

robo has an itit.

or itities.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 19:47 | 614081 undereducated
undereducated's picture

creditline

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 21:30 | 614303 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

can't have "sitting ducks" if they're roamin'. . . ponder the intentions behind the action. . .

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 20:52 | 614229 johngaltfla
johngaltfla's picture

Good luck using the ATM's. The banks should be shuttered for a week while they figure out this con game....

Thu, 09/30/2010 - 00:18 | 614601 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Yep. Grabbed some "holiday" cash today.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 15:50 | 613338 Ragnarok
Ragnarok's picture

Heather Gray Swan?

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 15:50 | 613339 truont
truont's picture

Paying mortgage is for suckers, now...

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 16:13 | 613449 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

And I was just about to post my payment. Seriously.

Maybe I shall wait a few days and see if this actually hits the "hard news" cycle aka the fawning corporate press aka mainstream media.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 16:34 | 613516 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

++++

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 16:39 | 613521 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

Once lapsing on mortgage payments is the new normal, everyone will simply do it without a second thought. If it nukes the banks well that's okay because bailing out banks with fiat dollars is normal too.

This was the real hazard in not keeping standards and allowing "normal" to drift with the political moment; you get to a point where everyone is fine with drift as a principle, then you casually drift into swift waters, then you rapidly drift over a cliff. It's all normal then, all the way down.

We have normal norms for a reason, folks; to survive. Once billion became the new million and backstopping banks was BAU and corporate stock prices disconnected from anything of importance then and truly we fell in over our heads.

The foreclosure thing is not about "doing the right thing" it is about gaming the system, playing by the new rules, and getting through this fun house maze of distortions whole. That's not my opinion, it's the new landscape. Everyone is playing now. There is no place to hide. Over the waterfall in a barrel and no where to hide.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 16:47 | 613561 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Yup, you just described the proverbial slippery slope.

The control system has always been dependant upon those who are being controlled to willingly allow their control. Once the sleeping begin to understand that unplugging is no worse than remaining plugged in, they will begin to lose that all important controlling mechanism, that being fear.

Imagine how may people are still seduced into paying their underwater mortgage by the fear of a falling credit score if they were to default, thus they remain on the hamster wheel. Figure what happens if just another 5% of the population stops paying their mortgage.

Time for another false flag attack to divert attention and remind people of their "patriotic" duty. No, I'm not talking about serving in the army. I'm talking about servicing that debt.

 

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 17:30 | 613707 TheMonetaryRed
TheMonetaryRed's picture

 

"Credit score" - that's funny. 

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 18:07 | 613812 AllegoryOfTheCave
AllegoryOfTheCave's picture

I had a feeling something like this would happen. My parents divorced and each home they had is now in foreclosure and been there for quite some time. The lawyer said he is overwhelmed with foreclosure clients and said in some cases people squatted for up to 3 years. What do you think will happen once students begin to do the same and not pay down those student loans? How far can government enforce students to pay if they don't have jobs?

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 18:29 | 613871 Iam_Silverman
Iam_Silverman's picture

"How far can government enforce students to pay if they don't have jobs?"

Owing the Government can be a bad thing!  They can keep your income tax refund (even EIC for the un/underemployed), garnish any wages, attach liens to real and other property.  Who knows?  Young, unemployed, indebted to Uncle Sam?  Congratulations!  You have been conscripted!  Please immediately report to the nearest Armed Forces/Peace Corps/Obama Brownshirt Brigade recruiting facility.

Thu, 09/30/2010 - 02:09 | 614757 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

That translates to a lot of slackers in the brig/stockade -- just what the Armed forces are pining for! </sarcasm>

Thu, 09/30/2010 - 03:11 | 614851 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

the only thing that got most white people to protest in the '60's was conscription (both 19th and 20th centuries!)

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 18:21 | 613846 11b40
11b40's picture

Totally agree on the slippery slope and what might happen as lack of fear overcomes everyman.

Give this some thought...what will happen to tax collection efforts on every level? 

I started thinking about this after seeing the delinquent tax notices in the newspaper.  Property tax seizures are the easy ones, but what if massive numbers of businesses and independent contractors start cheating big time, or just dropping out?  State & local governments (without printing presses) are already trending up the proverbial creek without a paddle.  Could this little moral hazard thingy, with folks deciding to give themselves a bailout, be the trip wire that sends governments over the cliff?

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 18:31 | 613876 Iam_Silverman
Iam_Silverman's picture

"but what if massive numbers of businesses and independent contractors start cheating big time, or just dropping out? "

Lets watch Greece - it's been happening there for decades.  So far, so good!

Thu, 09/30/2010 - 02:10 | 614758 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

After all, the Govt says that filing Income Tax returns is "voluntary!"

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 23:48 | 614547 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

CD--good point:

"Once the sleeping begin to understand that unplugging is no worse than remaining plugged in, they will begin to lose that all important controlling mechanism, that being fear."

but on that path lies societal collapse.  Look (and I'd like your thoughts about) how Serbia went from something that could host the Olympics (without Salt Lake or current fraud) and what they became.

That veneer is thinner than most consider.  Shock, then "do what you have to do".  U.S. got a glimpse of it with Katrina (actual events, not the political BS coverup afterwards--I'm  in  Houston tonight, still stories of the crime-rate upspike following the influx of the n'oleans refugees--again different culture clashing)

I'd appreciate your thoughts.

- Ned

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 17:18 | 613672 kathy.chamberli...
kathy.chamberlin@gmail.com's picture

JPM was simply in over their heads becoming a mortgage servicier for freddie and frannie. they were front runners. the staff mostly in columbus OHIO. s t u p i d. i got stories but advised not to share. JPM's head is up jamie's ass, and i hope it really really hurts and bleeds. plus, hope you get a horrible std disease or worst. and you can never sit down on your butt.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 17:50 | 613766 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

What a curse. That rocked. The Wyrd Sisters have nothing on you.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 21:02 | 614244 chindit13
chindit13's picture

Cougar, you nailed it.

There's little or no reason to post anything additional on this thread, nor even to read what comes below your post.

That being said, gotta go write something up and get my name on the document, like people who bothered to sign after John Hancock.  Plus, who could miss the many ways velobabe will twist and turn the odd comment here and there into something with carnal implications, drifting in a fog of some unnatural substance.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 21:09 | 614256 kathy.chamberli...
kathy.chamberlin@gmail.com's picture

excuse me, please sir. I just realized what the word carnal knowledge means (what does

f and u mean)? it is fun to learn about sex, chindit13. i just realized about Sodom last night. guess you are either over it or under it. i really am not unnatural. you on the other hand, well, i got my own opinions.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 21:23 | 614282 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

(lending from one of GW's trolls)

"You are diminishing the credibility of this blog."

O K A Y ?

f off

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 21:58 | 614354 kathy.chamberli...
kathy.chamberlin@gmail.com's picture

look here, i am using my real name and persona. WTF, you guyz are probably all, who knows what. least i got some balls to post under my real name. i have some pending issues but i am willing to still try to be myself and not let these unresolved issues defeat me and diminish my true nature and my life. i am worth something to myself, i know not the world. your the fucking troll telling me i am diminishing this blog credibility. who in the fuck are you to comment to me with these words. ok this blog has fucking judgemental assholes like you.

O K A Y ?

U f off

Thu, 09/30/2010 - 00:08 | 614590 _Biggs_
_Biggs_'s picture

I vant to suck your...

Thu, 09/30/2010 - 00:56 | 614662 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

I want the old Velo back. F the N E W u.

Well, funny, but that was back when ZH was a little less serious. As if we ever weren't on the precipice.

If you are the real Velo you will know I am not judgemental and I still want you to fuck off. This isn't cute. This is mass murder. F U C K  O F F.

No need to be polite. Fuck you and move on if you can't add anything of substance.

Thu, 09/30/2010 - 03:22 | 614867 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

"when zh was a little less serious" ...and you call this progress?  how is mortgage fraud mass murder?  booze 'n' babes is a staple of zh; why not the alternative(s)?  relax ("i am not judemental and i still want you to fuck off"). 

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 23:04 | 614455 chindit13
chindit13's picture

Sorry velo, just a little good natured fun.  I did not mean to offend, and apologize if I did.  And lest you be concerned, I'm as "natural" as anybody else.

By the way, since you brought up Sodom (and we all know what act put that town's name on the map), perhaps you could earn a PhD, or even a Nobel, if you could discover what "gomorrah-ing" was.  Must have been something particularly nasty if history has swept it under the proverbial carpet.

Pardon the off topic;  at least it's buried at the beginning of the thread.  Oh, and velo, when posts get filled up with bile and "bitchez"---and I've been away so long I am unaware of the genesis of that term in our popular culture---sometimes a little diversion from the doom and gloom is welcome.  The occasional smile is good for the soul.

Thu, 09/30/2010 - 02:14 | 614760 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

The real sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was being "inhospitable" to strangers -- everything else was just icing on the cake.

Thu, 09/30/2010 - 00:56 | 614664 MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

i just realized about Sodom last night.

<coffee-spurting-out-nose>

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 16:39 | 613532 1100-TACTICAL-12
1100-TACTICAL-12's picture

I have intentionally stayed a month behind, Gut feeling they will do something stupid why miss the gravytrain...

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 16:54 | 613581 Ripped Chunk
Ripped Chunk's picture

Need to go to 90 if you want them to raise an eyebrow friend.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 18:13 | 613828 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

LOL

90 days late is the new 30 days late.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 18:38 | 613907 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Meanwhile last month I forget to click the "confirm & submit mortgage payment" button on the Wells Fargo website, and in less than a week, Warren himself is burning up the phone lines to get my payment.

So, ok, it really wasn't Warren, just some guy from India with a broken Nebraska accent.

As far as strategic default goes, I expect the crime cartel in DC to eventually claim ownership of all broken mortgages in order to make things "fair."

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 20:54 | 614232 johngaltfla
johngaltfla's picture

Rats. I knew I should have taken the liar loan and bought the $900K home on Longboat Key. I could just be watching the surf and ignoring the nastygrams....

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 15:50 | 613340 outamyeffinway
outamyeffinway's picture

We could bring the banking system to it's knees (instead of us for once) if everyone stopped paying their debts. But it would damage your credit score so better not.....

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 16:02 | 613374 andybev01
andybev01's picture

 

 

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 15:58 | 613379 andybev01
andybev01's picture

What credit score?

 

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 16:09 | 613417 Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

There was a piece on NPR yesterday about how foreclosures affect people and finding rent etc.  Turns out a FICO competitor "VantageScore" is tempering a foreclosure a little.  Seems with so many foreclosures now days, you have to accomidate for them in the credit score to get a more accurate picture.  Foreclosures will be like divorces: people think you are wierd if you havent had one.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 16:14 | 613455 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Brings to new meaning to the term "Dragging down the grade curve" doesn't it? :>)

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 16:43 | 613544 1100-TACTICAL-12
1100-TACTICAL-12's picture

Fuckit Im Cashin Out

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 16:43 | 613548 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

I just said it myself, and should have guessed it was already happening:

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/its-really-jpm-tells-cnbc-it-systematic...

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 17:11 | 613646 The Rock
The Rock's picture

how foreclosures affect people and finding rent etc.

you just need a bigger deposit (maybe an extra month)... no big deal...

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 17:08 | 613534 Ripped Chunk
Ripped Chunk's picture

The credit reporting industry was established by the banking community to avoid prosecution & lawsuits under discriminatory lending and other discriminatory and  predetory lending practices laws.

They need to fall as well. They are corrupt lapdogs of the banks.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 17:18 | 613674 The Rock
The Rock's picture

My father filed for bankruptcy protection back in 1995 and he's had a "Tier 1" credit score for the longest time since then.  A couple of years ago he applied for a loan at BofA, in which he was more than qualified.  The fuckers at BofA rejected him and when he asked why they said it was because they were included in his bankruptcy back then.  So when he told them that it has been more than 10years since the bankruptcy and it is not on his credit report anymore, they said "yes sir, but WE keep track".  In other words, they don't forget.  Fuckers...

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 17:26 | 613699 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

Yup.  The credit report banks receive is different (has all the history) than the one your Dad gets. A rigged game

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 17:36 | 613726 TheMonetaryRed
TheMonetaryRed's picture

Yeah, but strangely banks couldn't use those credit reports to find out that borrowers didn't have JOBS - as long as folks were buying their phony mortgage paper. 

I love the idea that the CRA somehow blinded the entire banking community, with all its information sources into making bad loans. 

That's funny. 

 

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 17:32 | 613717 economessed
economessed's picture

So I hope your Dad reminded them that they needed him (and 160 million other taxpayers) in 2008, and that he's never going to forget.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 17:58 | 613784 The Rock
The Rock's picture

The day I'm in heaven is the day I get to remind them of that before they hang from a lamp post...

Thu, 09/30/2010 - 03:26 | 614869 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Go long on hemp

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 17:56 | 613779 Ripped Chunk
Ripped Chunk's picture

7 years is bullshit. These fucks OBEY NO LAWS

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 20:34 | 614193 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

ASYMMETRICAL ETHICS, BITCHES!!

(I miss Chummers)

Thu, 09/30/2010 - 03:27 | 614870 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

me too.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 23:56 | 614558 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

But Larrry King, well, he's been playing the game.  guess most of us have not?

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 17:25 | 613695 kathy.chamberli...
kathy.chamberlin@gmail.com's picture

they sure the hell are. it is all utter nonsense. credit scoring crap. predatory lending by JPM at it's finest. those rules are a joke. GFE, joke. mortgage brokers, joke. title companies, joke. the whole industry can be bought with a greedy smile.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 17:46 | 613756 anonnn
anonnn's picture

 Moodys, Fitch, S&P were the pioneers. It's a form of protection racket. of  

Oh! Wait... RICO?

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 16:09 | 613431 reading
reading's picture

If "everyone" did it, it wouldn't matter much what anyone's credit score was after the fact.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 16:28 | 613494 Village Idiot
Village Idiot's picture

We could bring the banking system to it's knees (instead of us for once) if everyone stopped paying their debts. But it would damage your credit score so better not.....

 

The way things are going, your credit would be clean right about the time RE becomes a buy.

*pure speculation

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 18:03 | 613793 Dburn
Dburn's picture

I wonder if FICO executives lie in bed bathed in sweat when they wake up from a nightmare where the media is writing articles like "No one bothers looking at your FICO score anymore. They know it's all BS."

He walks downstairs and logs on to his executive dashboard and sees big customers have dropped 37% in one month. A note from the worried VP of sales ; "Boss, look at what I got from Citibank the scumbags of scumbags:"  "we are doing a strategic walk-away from our contract as the value of your service is no longer commensurate with our needs".

He almost loses control when he thinks of the 12 million dollar mortgage he just took out on a fine  bank repo . "Hey, I'll just do a strategic walk away. Rent something cheap, you know 5 grand a month. Worse thing that happen is it fucks up my credit score...wait...HAHAHAHA, we really are fucked".

 

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 15:50 | 613344 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

This is beginning to get good. Got fraud?

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 16:00 | 613386 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

People stop paying the mortgage -- is this reverse moral hazard?

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 16:31 | 613506 A_MacLaren
A_MacLaren's picture

There are 2 sides to every coin (excluding wierdly shaped  ones).

The mortgage coin has: Moral Hazard on one side.

And Credit Risk on the other.

Care to give it a flip (as in flip this house)?

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 18:40 | 613915 hidingfromhelis
hidingfromhelis's picture

If it's a tungsten coin, does the outcome of the flip, be it house or coin, really matter?

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 16:03 | 613400 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

As CNBC stated a week ago Monday, 'Oh, forget that, there will be no charges or perp walks on Wall St'.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 16:38 | 613527 Calculated_Risk
Calculated_Risk's picture

perp walks are so 80's.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 16:09 | 613418 nopat
nopat's picture

Here's a thought experiment:

You eliminate mark-to-market on mortgage-backed debt due to the fact that the underlying assets are in a race to zero under the positive assumption that this is a short-term blip, people want to pay their bills, "no price doesn't imply no value", and that if we all collectively think something, it automatically has to be true.  Bonds are priced on cash flow and repayment of principal (among other things; simplifying).  The cash flow stops, so you then have a gov't agency to step in and repay the principal, but only after they take ownership of the asset through a foreclosure, fulfilling the market's requirement for a price in order to have value.  So what happens when you remove the ability for principal to be repaid?  As a bond holder, how do you value the price of an asset you hold that has no cash flow stream and, ultimately, no principal by virtue of no ownership of the asset?  As a government entity guaranteeing a financial instrument, does that guarantee hinge on legal ownership, or can you guarantee the "notional" value of the instrument?  To that point, can the government even legally guarantee a fraudulent document?

Just thinking out loud here.  Man, this is going to be interesting...

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 16:19 | 613467 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Don't like how the massive multiple player game is working out? You change the rules of the game after the fact by way of a National Security Directive. The POTUS does what he's told to do. Congress as well.

Don't like it? You're now officially declared a terrorist. Bye bye sucker. No charges, no trial, no daylight until they decide you're worthy of daylight.

How's that for a thought experiment? It's only a few tango steps away from reality.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 16:37 | 613525 nopat
nopat's picture

Depends on the philosophical leanings of whatever judge happens to be presiding over the case, vis a vis the greater good vs the rights of the individual and whether or not millions of foreclosed homes constitutes "greater good".  I could easily see some of these guys get "disappeared" depending on which way their gavel swung.

In a way this is far worse than subprime.  At least with subprime, there was ownership of an asset; you just didn't know which asset was in what tranche and if it was being priced accordingly, not to mention the asset had an actual value behind it.  This time it does not pass Go, it does not collect $200.  It just goes straight. To.  Zero.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 17:17 | 613665 aerojet
aerojet's picture

I fail to see how "prime" foreclosures is any different than subprime other than the rating that was attached to it.  It all still got split up into impossible to understand bonds and then sold off to investors as AAA good.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 20:16 | 614146 nopat
nopat's picture

Not subprime foreclosures, but the credit squeeze 18 months ago when everyone realized they grossly misunderstood and mispriced default risk on subprime mortgages, and even worse that in each securitized debt offering it was impossible to tell what was in each tranche (not that it mattered, rich and poor were walking away at unprecedented rates). However you sliced and diced your senior claim during a foreclosure/bankruptcy proceeding, there was both a legal claim to an asset and an asset through which liquidation could remedy the claim, if only partially. Take out "legal" (i.e. you have nothing more than a revolving unsecured note) from the equation and you have the financial equivalent of a neutron bomb gutting the shit out of a lot of global (I'm guessing mostly Chinese and European) wealth, on the order of tens of trillions.

Thu, 09/30/2010 - 01:18 | 614694 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

!Jesucristo! That is tight writing.

This is the good stuff.

18 or ~23?

Thu, 09/30/2010 - 02:21 | 614768 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

I bow to your superior logic!  We are NOT worthy!

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 16:41 | 613537 Bob
Bob's picture

Ya gotta admit, "lawlessness" by the morts that threatens to cost the gangster elite their marked to fantasy, fraudulently created/marketed/and sold chits could easily be characterized as a National Emergency. 

It would certainly turn the status quo on its head . . . which is why I like it so. 

Sad when the only real hope you have sends you down what would, under better circumstances, be patently perverse avenues. 

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 17:53 | 613769 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

It was perverse getting here. 80 years of perverse, at all levels but mostly at the top.

The unmaker is coming. And let me tell you, she's pissed.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 18:23 | 613844 Bob
Bob's picture

Let us be grateful for whatever hope providence allows us.  It is what it is. 

And not to be wasted. 

Thu, 09/30/2010 - 02:22 | 614769 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

That would be "Kali!"  In the Age of Kali, you DO whatever Kali demands!

Thu, 09/30/2010 - 00:04 | 614582 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

Bob, I'm all about your "status quo on its head" comment.

We gotta' do a bunch more fixin' of the "status quo".

Saul hated it back when--I'a kinda hatin' it now.

- Ned

Thu, 09/30/2010 - 02:24 | 614770 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Seems like "This Old Mortage" needs to be gutted, sprayed for termites, reroofed, etc.

Thu, 09/30/2010 - 06:20 | 614982 saulysw
saulysw's picture

I hated what? Must have missed that one. Yes, my real name is Saul.

Thu, 09/30/2010 - 07:40 | 615046 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

Alinsky hated the "status quo", can tell his adherents through incessant use of that term today.

I'm not lovin' the "new normal".

- Ned

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 16:54 | 613579 TheMerryPrankster
TheMerryPrankster's picture

It actually is reality, no need to dance. This is the twisted darkly lit corridors of the 21st century we are attempting to navigate. All maps are wrong and the compass never points North, it just spins like a top.

 

This is probably now considered a terrorist statement:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj62jJt_O3k

(Monster)
Once the religious, the hunted and weary
Chasing the promise of freedom and hope
Came to this country to build a new vision
Far from the reaches of kingdom and pope
Like good Christians, some would burn the witches
Later some got slaves to gather riches

But still from near and far to seek America
They came by thousands to court the wild
And she just patiently smiled and bore a child
To be their spirit and guiding light

And once the ties with the crown had been broken
Westward in saddle and wagon it went
And 'til the railroad linked ocean to ocean
Many the lives which had come to an end
While we bullied, stole and bought our a homeland
We began the slaughter of the red man

But still from near and far to seek America
They came by thousands to court the wild
And she just patiently smiled and bore a child
To be their spirit and guiding light

The blue and grey they stomped it
They kicked it just like a dog
And when the war over
They stuffed it just like a hog

And though the past has it's share of injustice
Kind was the spirit in many a way
But it's protectors and friends have been sleeping
Now it's a monster and will not obey

(Suicide)
The spirit was freedom and justice
And it's keepers seem generous and kind
It's leaders were supposed to serve the country
But now they won't pay it no mind
'Cause the people grew fat and got lazy
And now their vote is a meaningless joke
They babble about law and order
But it's all just an echo of what they've been told
Yeah, there's a monster on the loose
It's got our heads into a noose
And it just sits there watchin'

Our cities have turned into jungles
And corruption is stranglin' the land
The police force is watching the people
And the people just can't understand
We don't know how to mind our own business
'Cause the whole worlds got to be just like us
Now we are fighting a war over there
No matter who's the winner
We can't pay the cost
'Cause there's a monster on the loose
It's got our heads into a noose
And it just sits there watching

(America)
America where are you now?
Don't you care about your sons and daughters?
Don't you know we need you now
We can't fight alone against the monster

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 16:24 | 613479 walküre
walküre's picture

Point of no return.

It cannot be fixed - ever.

They need to be starting from zero asap.

IMF needs to step in and shut down the US.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 16:41 | 613540 Vampyroteuthis ...
Vampyroteuthis infernalis's picture

The US is the IMF.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 16:47 | 613559 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

Which means it will be quite entertaining.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 17:02 | 613611 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

US and england is the IMF.

Thu, 09/30/2010 - 02:00 | 614753 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

God save the kveeen.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 17:47 | 613759 The Rock
The Rock's picture

IMF, BIS, World Bank, Frauderal Reserve, Council on Foreign Relations, the Trilateral Commission, Bilderberg Conference, Harvard, Treasury, Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Rockefellers, etc >> ALL THE SAME SHIT!!

All roads lead to Ro(thschild)me!

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 19:00 | 613970 blindman
blindman's picture

red shield.....fka....aka....

Thu, 09/30/2010 - 06:30 | 614991 Mr Poopra
Mr Poopra's picture

I smell what you're cooking, Rock.  Smells like...revolution.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 17:32 | 613720 anonnn
anonnn's picture

Reminds me of s/g related:

If CDSs ,etc are not offficially codified and regulated, the court system should not be available to use for enforcement.

I.e., if the courts refused to review CDSs, there would be no legal recourse of enforcement,. Thus anyone buying/selling a CDS would be a private matter and legally unenforceable. Ya know...like verbal agreements on a hand shake...no witnesses/nothing written.

Solution: Remove the courts from all unregulated and undocumented agreements?

Result: People will learn about the subject of "trust". e.g. How much to trust.

 

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 18:07 | 613811 puckles
puckles's picture

Now THAT is a really interesting observation.  Indeed, what legal dominion do any of these oddball in-securities float in?  I've often wondered about that; my first response was private contract law, yet the imperfections to title as evidenced in the current hullabaloo likely have rendered that byway quite void.  Anybody here know?

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 19:40 | 614069 blindman
blindman's picture

piracy law in the court of smoke and mirrors.

aka whatever you can get away with.  or the imaginary

component implied, assumption and consumption, in any

"rational" construct or concept.  fuzzy stuff law, as in ....

who knows and we'll see? , should we ever arrive in that

fairly fairy land of show time for the stage hands/owners

who have been brought out to explain there is no more

punch folks, it is time to go home where ever that may be. 

and good luck to ya'll as they retreat to their gated, secured and

privately armed compounds. 

ps. they won't really care that you think you own some gold

certificates, coins, jewelry etc. or whatnot.  they will just make a

LAW.  and you will be a terrorist in obsession / possession of

their property.   but then i wolked uppidy andity forgetted thism. ism. jim

never mind.  nothing to see here..... 

ps the point.  the law is so heavy.  complex.  variable and ungrounded

that no one, absolutely no one can possibly know IT.  and it is highly

contaminated and ungrounded, unknowable, as in thousands of pages

of IT are written and enacted daily and those who enact it do NOT even

read it, never mind know it.  consider it, it's implications.  the word is

chaos.  and it serves the cause of freedom, but not responsibility, as

no one can be held responsible for violating IT as no one knows what IT

is.  so we are warped, in a very destructive way that bares unkindly for

something one might call civilization. 

i think of it as a criminal conspiracy, a corporate criminal conspiracy to

enslave, as in the glory days of old, the masses.  perpetrated by a partially

conscious elite, or their dimwitted ancestors, in the attempt to sustain

their social stature through synthetic propping of failed systemic functioning?. (backfiring)...

.

piracy law!  that is the answer.

off hand i don't know where to find the verse of this law, but i believe it

must exist.  perhaps stored in a cave in Pakistan.? 

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 23:49 | 614549 blindman
blindman's picture

it gooesssss.

.

 " yur supposed ta be dead". 

"am i not?"  fellow pirate responds (depp)

sound of steel blades on steel sheaths from 

all directions ensues.  ..

pirate (depp) mutters...

"purlee loo la... ar snip....  par  ..snyp....

par.. sleee..

 parner partner.....

parlay,  that's the one, parlay!"

"parlay?"  ,  "parlay" the pirates respond.

"down to the depths with him, the man who thought of parlay".

.

(depp) "that would be the french".

hmmmm..

.

par·lay

 (pärl, -l)
tr.v. par·layed, par·lay·ing, par·lays
1. To bet (an original wager and its winnings) on a subsequent event. 2. To maneuver (an asset) to great advantage: parlayed some small investments into a large fortune. n.
A bet comprising the sum of a prior wager plus its winnings or a series of bets made in such a manner. [Alteration of paroli, staking of double the sum staked before in faro, from French, from obsolete Italian, probably from Italian parare, to place a bet, from Latin parre, to prepare; see pare.]

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

parlay [?p??l?] US and Canadian vb (tr)
1. (Group Games / Gambling, except Cards) to stake (winnings from one bet) on a subsequent wager Brit equivalent double up 2. to exploit (one's talent) to achieve worldly success n
(Group Games / Gambling, except Cards) a bet in which winnings from one wager are staked on another, or a series of such bets
[variant of paroli, via French from Neapolitan Italian parolo, from paro a pair, from Latin p?r equal, par]

Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003


ThesaurusLegend:  Synonyms Related Words Antonyms Noun 1. parlay - a series of wagers in which the winnings from one wager are used as a stake for the subsequent wagers
wager, bet - the act of gambling; "he did it on a bet" Verb 1. parlay - stake winnings from one bet on a subsequent wager
double up bet on, gage, game, stake, punt, back - place a bet on; "Which horse are you backing?"; "I'm betting on the new horse"

Thu, 09/30/2010 - 02:26 | 614773 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Franz Kafka's got nuthin' on you pal!

Thu, 09/30/2010 - 02:25 | 614771 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Shoot the banksters BEFORE they shoot you!

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 23:44 | 614536 ChevronSky
ChevronSky's picture

Typically, the "verbal agreements on a hand shake...no witnesses/nothing written" can in fact be addressed in courts, through contract and/or equitable theories.  Then, there is the Statute of Frauds (not sure every state has this), which requires certain transactions, over a specified value, to be memorialized in writing.  Absent this defense, i.e. if it cannot be substantiated through a written instrument, you may be on to something...as most mortgages would certainly be over the Statute of Frauds limit.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 15:50 | 613347 Anarchist
Anarchist's picture

The average chump will still walk away without a fight. The amount who show up at the foreclosure hearing is tiny. Judgement by default.......

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 16:11 | 613440 reading
reading's picture

You can't get a judgement by default if you get thrown out cause you have no legal bearing for the proceeding...

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 15:52 | 613353 Turd Ferguson
Turd Ferguson's picture

And....only 36 Dow points to go and the market finishes GREEN on this wonderful news.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 15:57 | 613371 Prof Gulliver
Prof Gulliver's picture

This is wonderful news -- for Ben, Tim and Obama. No more foreclosures = house prices stabilize overnight. Plus more disposable money for those who don't have to leave and pay rent. And if people stop paying their mortgages, that's good too. Even more disposable money. As for the banks, they have no worries -- the Fed will bail 'em out.
It's a perfect plan.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 16:09 | 613429 Gordon Freeman
Gordon Freeman's picture

I was thinking the exact same thing...

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 16:28 | 613496 Battleaxe
Battleaxe's picture

You can't ask people who are current to pay off their mortgages if people who are delinquent don't have to. We'll just have to clear all mortgages and let all of the banks go under. We'll also get rid of a bunch of lawyers, prosecuted for their fraudulent involvement. America will be better than it's been for generations.

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