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It's Really On: JPM Tells CNBC It Is Systematically Reviewing Foreclosures
Update: BN *JPMORGAN ASKS JUDGES TO DELAY RULINGS IN `PENDING MATTERS'.
We predict that within a week, all banks will halt every foreclosure currently in process. Within a month, all foreclosures executed within the past 2-3 years will be retried, and millions of existing home sales will be put in jeopardy.
And like that, mortgage fraud goes global. JPM stock down on the news, as the American foreclosure process is now effectively shut down. More as we get it.
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What chances do you give this actually taking place?
Blame it on "lawyers"?
Happens all the time.
Hell, even Shakespeare thought it good to kill all the lawyers.
Lawyers are lapdogs (attack dogs, whatever) for their clients.
The lawyers' clients are the ones that need to be killed. Then the lawyer has nothing to do! (Unless hired by the estate of the dead client)
i just found out lawyers don't work for you, they work for the court, to uphold the laws of the court.
Lemme guess. Drug-related charges?
Can we prosecute a bunch of financial industry folks, too?
mortgage foreclosure factories. some call them lawyers.
mistake after mistake after mistake. call it their attention, oh it ok we get to make mistakes because your the criminal. you have to take it from us, we have power.
It creates more uncertainty. Real estate market will gridlock (more than it is).
It will nuke the banks and GSEs -- no cash flow.
No banks and no GSEs, no home loans.
No home loans no sales except for cash.
Cash is king so all sales become fire sales.
Home prices fall like lead. Real estate industry implodes entirely. All home sales become barter and hand-shake deals, literally over the fence.
Sounds good to me.
It would bring about Mad Max, though. No property rights at all.
Funny how so many "mainstream thinkers" (sic) automatically equate the fall of the current (fraudulent and corrupt) banking and monetary systems with "Mad Max" and Armageddon. To the extent that this lie is believed, I would suggest that the Establishment's programming was not in vain.
(Double post due to shitty server)
Would not. People like to get along and make deals. They'll deal, and mostly deal fairly, and the few who deal crooked will enjoy the view from the end of a rope.
WTF. 8,000 years of hand-shake dealings regarding property, 80 years of modern "real estate", who wins this in a cage match?
As right as you are, the only problem then becomes: $ <= 0
Ignore--I rolled doubles.
Almost made it. Time just ran out before they could get it into the end zone.
Dow -23
Yeah, but AAPL is green and that's what really counts
Let's see. No docs, no down, no mortgage note. What a country!
Are there any short term repurcussions on the market or is it just going to be in the background until after the election or until 2011?
Tyler, I'll tell you what's gonna happen. All you need is *ONE* attorney to show up directly before a Full Federal APPELLATE Court and seek a temporary emergency injunction to stop all foreclosures, do discovery and hear from everyone ... they MIGHT actually get it ... it would also put the Obama administration [and MANY others] under the microscope because everyone would HAVE to file amici curiaes
Especially if they disclose that the U.S. has in FACT forgiven all mortgage debt. See Reggie Middleton's 9/23 piece.
That is exactly what has happened. It's the only thing that explains the Government's schizophrenic behavior: expanding HAMP eligibility on the one hand, frauding up the foreclosure process on the other.
Meaning? Meaning the U.S. doesn't know how to present its current policy: an individually enforceable right to minimize the risk of housing loss.
That is what is REALLY going on, and you can tell your lawyers that Lindsey v. Normet minimum scrutiny for housing is over because the U.S. now has its OWN policy. And what is that policy?
Strict scrutiny for housing.
Tell your lawyers that. They will hit the roof.
Revolution on, dudes.
Funny thing is if everybody with a mortgage wants to know who exactly holds the title on their home foreclosure or not that is going to seriously put a damper on some peoples books - this could really turn into a a bonfire of banks books - whats the marked to market if you don't own the note on a house ?
Only in America.... well for now, next is UK, then Ireland, then Spain, Portugal, France, China.... oh well, I guess this is 'the way' they do business now-a-days. How sad.
James L. "Jamie" Dimon (born March 13, 1956) is the current CEO and chairman of JPMorgan Chase & Co as well as a Class A director of the Board of Directors of the New York Federal Reserve, a three year term which started January 2007.[1][2] Dimon was named to Time Magazine′s 2006, 2008 and 2009 lists of the world's 100 most influential people.
yeah, well he can fuck himself, stupid SOB.
+1
I'd pay to see that.
No worries, with POMO Thursday and a bad job report, bad GDP number as well, and to top it off with BEN B. speaking at 10AM, all systems ramp will be full steam ahead as usual.
ETCH A SCAM
http://williambanzai7.blogspot.com/2010/09/etch-scam.html
Couldn't happen to a better group of bankers. Should be good for a 10% bonus boost thanks to the taxpayer.
No wonder the Mexicans are breaking down our door to get in! Keynesian Nudist Party Tonight with Jamie Dimon on a borrowed guitar!
+100 belly laughs
Trick from Italian Casino owners in the Caribbean: the bigger the accounting mess the less likely that taxing authorities could ever figure out the extend of skimming and tax evasion going on. Thie CDO system was set up the same way.
I believe that the term is referred to as "The Big Lie."
This will do wounders for stability.
'Wounders', couldnt have set it better myself.
I have a spelling impediemnt
My Daughter can't spell worth a shirt either, but she STILL graduated Summa Cum Laude!
JP and the gang want the FDIC to kick in $6 billion on the $1.9 billion Wapoo purchase. This is better than PBR accounting.
$6 billion of what? The friggin' paper money is completely leveraged against nothing. Not even a title is what its supposed to be.
WTF is holding value against the USD?
This is a nightmare! Ben & Co. can print whatever the hell they want. There's no backing behind the money if real estate titles are completely messed up.
I mean what else is there in the US? Weapons and military perhaps. How much leverage against that realistically?
Which titles are real, which aren't? Why is the next guy living in their mansion for free while the poor sucker just bought a condo with 3.5% down and mortgaged for life?
Complete and utter bullshit. Chaos will ensue soon. Markets won't break down, actually markets will go up. At least a stock certificate is somewhat of a title to something, right? As long as its not paper money. You own 5000 shares of Coca Cola and will be part of Coca Cola's profits all around the world even when the Dollar is going into the toilet. Fuck this is screwed.
What you forget is that a lot of Stocks are Naked Shorted. So, in effect many Stocks have been Counterfited. Saying a Stock Certificate which many People do not have, they have a credit for the Stock in their Account, is a Title to Stock in a Company can also be false.
Remember on CNBC when they were saying that most ETF's have a 500% Short Interest against the ETF. If that is not Counterfitting to the enth Degree I do not know what is.
ETFs are like owning 50 Arizona spec homes in 2007. You go bust.
Buy producers with cash and clear mining rights or titles. Ask for stock certificate if you want to be 100% sure.
This is yet another nail in the coffin of the US economy and real estate.
Who would buy real estate now and take out a loan when all neighbours are living for free?
You'd have to be a complete moron to do anything like that.
This mess cannot be sorted out. Faith in the USD is about to break down completely
Gold to the moon. I can see it now.
Yep, I thought I got a good deal on my apartment in the low income bad side of town for 225 bucks a month. Now I am hearing these bums in the suburbs are not even paying their mortgages collecting 99 weeks of unemployment?
What are we gonna do with these McMansion Monkeys??? they and their fake neighborhoods are an eye sore.
In Europe they are getting pissed because they are bailing out banks with billions but forcing Austerity,
In the U.S. the retarded self flagellating teabaggers are demanding Austerity and totally oblivious to the historic transfer of wealth that just happened.
...the retarded self flagellating teabaggers are demanding Austerity and totally oblivious to the historic transfer of wealth that just happened led by "There's Russia!" Palin and "Vicks" Beck.
Can I get a Donkey Kong download on my Ipad, Iphone, Imoron? Well I'll check into it later.
I am really pissed at that:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2g3P63pv2C0&feature=related
Should I stop paying my mortgage? Or not?
That is the question.
Joker
'We're NOT intimidated by you'!
Yea? Well thats because you havent seen your little future crooks offsprings brains painting the ceiling yet.....you remind me of my father Blankfein! I HATED my father!
Yeah!
...my father was doing too much God's work.
Everybody hates him, now. They nicked him Sucks. But he still schemes dough, though.
guess, you weren't a daddies boy.
look at my eyes.
Am I cuter than Che?
http://pokazywarka.pl/vewpfy/
....And I like you
of course you are, and sexier†
cyber sex, teach me.
Got cyber lube???
i don't know, do U?
This news only means one thing..POMO Thursday will be a ramp in WMT. It will be a squatter's buffet
Till its suddenly and tragically NOT a buffet, and the squatters are suddenly whats for dinner. Lets face it everyone in the world is at their wits end with this bullshit. The decay rate is rapid at this point.
Lets face it everyone in the world is at their wits end with this bullshit.
Many are oblivious, it seems.
Not for too much longer, it seems.
Everyone is thinking the same thought, on some level. The news that mortgage titles are indefensible will spread like wildfire once it hits the streets, even if it isn't true. Everyone is expecting a bailout now. Print me some money, Ben. You did it for the banks now do it for me.
Well, yeah, but what about moral hazzard?
At least when the gangbanksters did it, their motives were pure and their intentions good . . .
Fuck moral hazard. I'm a moral person, so is my neighbor. The banks and realtors are fucking parasites on honest people who invented the concept to keep actually honest people stuck in dishonest deals. I'll deal squarely with my neighbor, and he and I will go lynch a banker to close the deal.
Moral hazard is for people with both feet in a corrupt world that is dying. Get out or go down.
Well said!
yeah, i got a court date.
Cougar, I entirely disagree, and I have no mortgage; paid off the last one in 1992. I'm not a banker, either. But if we are to salvage anything out of the wreckage of what used to be a fine civilization, moral hazard must be reinstituted. It was the lack of it that got us here, both for the damned banks that were to big to fail, as well as for the idiots who took out the liar loans, the flippers, the utter scumbags that populated the early breaking point. This has to stop, all of it. No more slimeball bailouts. No more bailouts, period. And that goes for ALL parties.
It used to be called "relief," during the Great Depression. And that was where the deception began, with that and all the euphemisms that followed: "welfare", "public assistance," etc. This hollowed out the idea that there was any morality in the business of earning a living for individuals, and the banks were there long before, just waiting for more opportunity. They were soon joined by the ghouls that ran the lobbying for the manufacturers, and then everybody else. They were all invited to the big DC bailout roundtable, but it wasn't called that back then. It was called "listening to your constituents." And then those "constituents" got to write their own bailouts into law.
This is what has killed small business. I don't mean to go all Frank Capra on you, but the indecent erosion of public legislative and financial morality has killed the golden goose that once laid the pristine egg of American prosperity. The average small businessman these days, just as a startup, has to navigate a maze of compliance issues that large businesses have entire departments to manage. The formerly prosperous, now more than likely marginal businesses, will be killed by the evaporation of the Bush tax cuts. And there will go more jobs down the drain. What virtually nobody in Congress understands is sthat Subchapter S and LLC businesses declare most of their income on their proprietor's individual tax form (in some states, such as New Jersey, those formerly C corporations who converted to Subchapter S, were only treated as Sub-S on their Federal Tax returns, and thus were even more unfairly treated). In the meantime, big business has cozied up even further to the Feds, and has been virtually assured income and bonuses for the bigwigs involved, even when the entities themselves are throughly bankrupt when federal intervention is taken out of the picture (and occasionally when it is factored in as well).This is demonstrable evidence of SEVERE MORAL HAZARD REALIZED.
Enough of this idiocy. Why would anyone want to start a business here today? They'd have to be out of their minds. The Founders understood this: morality=fairness=small government. There is no room there for Corporatists.
Precisely! I am winding down. Already warned my employees it's not worth the work and stress to keep the biz going. I am cashing in my chips and heading for the bug out bus. I think it is time to go dark.
Kinda hard to have "Moral Hazard" (or even "Moral Relativism"!) mean much when everybody is clustered on one end of the measuring stick! Party on!
If I was China or Japan holding gazillions of worthless US paper.. I'd be freakin' scared out of my bones.
When they read this shit and their translators tell all that the Americans have problems identifying the titles of debt.. the fun stops.
There are all of a sudden way too many fires to put out.
Expect some diversion or black-ops event coming soon.
You know when gold and Euro march up against the USD.. the end is near.
Before Nov. 2nd, book it ...
Something like this, perhaps?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39413455/ns/world_news-europe/
The good thing about this is that just MAYBE the Banks will work with the Borrowers to reduce their interest and maybe their principal.
What does not make sense to me is that the Banks will Forclose and Sell the House which they have a $200,000. Mortgage and after the Forclosure sell the House for $100,000. to someone else. They take a $100,000. hit on the Mortgage, have to pay Realtor Commissions, Property Taxes, Attorney Fees, Transfeer Tax and Stamps and Closing Costs to get $100,000. less. Instead they could work with the current Borrower and give them the same terms without all of the other costs.
Have to reduce the payments to zero, america has no jobs.
The current occupant has completed the life cycle as a debt slave. Couldn't even hold on to the property at 50% off. So they need to get a new sucker to carry the debt of at least 50% for as long as possible. Until that sucker is dry and the next one will maybe, hopefully step up to the plate and take at least 80% of the new balance.
In the end though, the formerly $200,000 "asset" will be worth as much as the ghetto shack around Mexico City's slums.
I can't stress this enough. Once the system is screwing around with title issues, the game is over.
There might be a jubilee, a reset of some sort, a currency reform. Something of that magnitude will be necessary to start from scratch. The IMF needs to step in and oversee the process.
Guess how much faith anyone has in the US currency when this comes out full steam?
The IMF needs to step in and oversee the process
That makes no sense what so ever...
You lost me with the IMF comment. We can fix this with a reset...no IMF needed
Agreed . . . until you say the IMF needs to come in and save us. You know they'll just restructure debt by increasing the load upon the public (backed by blood oaths to never default) to enable payouts to gangbanksters and friends while the common people move back into medieval lifestyles, er, I mean, responsible "austerity." They've run that game everywhere they've ever gone. It's what they're for--and a large part of the Third World remaining "third world."
Fortunately, there's no way Americans will ever accept an IMF intervention.
And where the IMF goes, rates of disease increase.
I got news for you, the IMF acquired the USA in 1933, lock,stock and barrel, thanks to FDR and the Federal Reserve act of 1913.
If that's true, now we're gonna see if they can foreclose.
Change is in the wind.
It is an established fact that the United States Federal Government has been dissolved by the Emergency Banking Act, March 9, 1933, 48 Stat. 1, Public Law 89-719; declared by President Roosevelt, being bankrupt and insolvent. H.J.R. 192, 73rd Congress m session June 5, 1933 – Joint Resolution To Suspend The Gold Standard and Abrogate The Gold Clause dissolved the Sovereign Authority of the United States and the official capacities of all United States Governmental Offices, Officers, and Departments and is further evidence that the United States Federal Government exists today in name only.
The receivers of the United States Bankruptcy are the International Bankers, via the United Nations, the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund. All United States Offices, Officials, and Departments are now operating within a de facto status in name only under Emergency War Powers. With the Constitutional Republican form of Government now dissolved, the receivers of the Bankruptcy have adopted a new form of government for the United States. This new form of government is known as a Democracy, being an established Socialist/Communist order under a new governor for America. This act was instituted and established by transferring and/or placing the Office of the Secretary of Treasury to that of the Governor of the International Monetary Fund. Public Law 94-564, page 8, Section H.R. 13955 reads in part: “The U.S. Secretary of Treasury receives no compensation for representing the United States
http://amghow.wordpress.com/2008/05/13/5-the-june-5-1933-bankruptcy-proceedings-of-the-united-states-declared-by-fdr-cmghow/
This is just a little detail that should be explored here. Seems like this is fairly important to be just a bit sarcastic. Tyler?
I understand the reservations about the IMF.
But.. this is about power. The US clearly has lost its power to woe the rest of the world. The US fucked up financially in the worst possible way. The rest of the world used to look up to the US for guidance and leadership. US investments were considered safe.
Now this is the 2nd fuck up or the extention of the fucked up fuck up. It's all fucked up.
No titles, no debt leverage, no clear appraisals of any assets. What the fuck. C'mon this is too big to be solved by Americans alone. The US needs an international intervention.
Maybe Oprah can have a multi national cry-fest to handle the forgiveness part.
What a fuck up.
Well, it seems clear that fixing it certainly can't be entrusted to Wall Street or the Fed . . . the people who actually created this mess and deservedly ruined our reputations--with our naive cooperation, it's true, yet they were the "innovative" Masters of the Universe who created this shit.
But surely they are not altogether representative of us as a people, government capture notwithstanding.
We are more than our gangster oligarchs. We should be able to sort it out ourselves . . . without the "help" of the banksters' international buddies, don't you think?
yes, this IS about power, it's always about power. . .
read what you posted, and consider that if things are 'fct up' and people clamour for the IMF, there will be "martial law" and NATO troups, and. . .
one step closer to "global rule". . . what comes after collapse?
The rest of the World, especially the IMF, is gonna have a tough time crawling over a 5200+ Nuclear fence!
Don't be too sure about that. Look at what Kerry said today (I'm paraphrasing, because I don't remember the exact words): Most Americans don't look at anything (i.e., understand even less, because they are totally uninformed, and are too busy feeding their faces with burgers and their heads with mindless TV)...The usual regal Kerry attitude in spades, but he has a point.
Do you seriously think the average Joe even knows what the IMF is, never mind that it's mainly US-funded, so it's nearly a complete circle jerk?
This was meant as a reply to your earlier comment about the IMF. For some reason, it was posted below a later post.
I don't thing Joe6 knows a whit about the IMF, etc., but he and his family will understand all they need to know when they find out the cable is going off, etc., and it's all part of being saved by some international banking organization.
The working class is at the breaking point as it is, with many middle classers joining them by the day. The banks are one iota from catching a can of whup ass that they cannot imagine . . . all it will take is a spark.
Austerity just ain't gonna sell. Not when banks have raped, robbed and pillaged, and not when it's to further protect those very banks yet again. Ain't gonna happen.
Go long Pb and high-speed Pb delivery devices!
PREPARE FOR AN ANNOUNCEMENT BY OBAMA THAT HE IS HALTING HOME FORECLOSURES NATIONWIDE.
Holy shit, if that happens, then who in their right mind would keep paying on their mortgage? There is literally no backstop at that point.
I would consider paying an attorney to find out who owns your note, not who services it, but who owns it. If there is no way to find out, then who the fuck are we paying?
If there is no way to find out, then who the fuck are we paying?
Then you're obviously paying con men. Pretty simple . . .
Check your County records, who recorded your mortgage last? That should be the note holder....no attorney needed...save $$$
That should be the note holder, but as I understand it, the banks neglected to maintain the records . . . some would say it was innocent oversight, while others might suspect it was in esssence massive tax evasion (shorting municipalities of registration fees.)
I'm just saying its the first stop your attorney would make.
It's possible no one can unravel this mess. I refinanced ...once to JP Morgan...I think mine is FUBAR...
Yeah, it's good advice. And good luck!
delete double post...
I wonder is this is why FASB caved on mark-to-market....maybe the banks argued successfully that it's not really a matter of insovency if they're forced to mark to the market price, rather---they don't even know for sure WHAT they have title to in the first place, so can't mark it to market without committing de facto fraud.
Think this is a coincidence???? Remember David Kellermann...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30344303/
Better hunker down for the bankowned typhoon to hit? 65% of all sales in California have been either bankowned or short sales orchestrated by the banks..Probably most were done without legal title? Lucky for those who got the $8000 tax credit to boot, thanx for the downpayment and the house, now just let me know if I really own the place? Until then, I'll keep the lawn watered for you.
Ron Insana and David Tepper say printing money will save us. We'll have jobs, have lower US debt, and you can't possibly lose in stocks because they only go up. (place robotroll photo here)
It will be NFLX
It's my new gig at zerohedge. Never read the comments but throw in a what would robotroll say post here and there.
How long did Ron's fund last?
his fund of funds lasted a little longer than his newsletter gig at duh street dot bomb
Stocks will be up because when you buy stocks, at least you own a piece of paper backed by the promise of the DTCC not backed by the promise of the UST!
DTCC can move offshore, UST can't.
You buy a stock in US company, you own piece of their pie.
You buy bond backed by US government, you own piece of their mess.
Bank stocks go down or sideways for a bit. US global players will do fine. Commodities and resource based pub cos. will explode. You haven't seen anything yet.
Get your US cash into hard metal or stocks backed by hard metal - NOW.
The banks didn't look at the paperwork when they made the loans, so why should they look when they go to foreclose.
Nothing to see here. I think Lincoln said it best at Gettysburg, when he concluded his address with : and a government of the banks, by the banks, and for the banks, shall not perish from this earth
What's the mark to model theoretical value on the books if you don't own the mortgage?
HAMP - Helping All Mortgagors Prevaricate
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36x8rTb3jI
What about the people who bought the houses the bank had no right to sell? Shit meet fan.
Wasn't there a story about this couple moving back into their foreclosed mansion and living in it until the cops arrived? Was in Lalaland of OC or somewhere closeby.. Rich folks too.
Could you be referring to Randy Quade, the actor?
Yes, thanks! See how fucked up this is?
I suppose that means the bank has to give the downpayment back and return the home to the person that couldn't afford it.
Will we get an update on all the homesales data accounting for this?
Specific performance. Not too likely. Good question is if the homeowner who defaulted actually was harmed by the foreclosure.
"Notably, the statute provides that loans may be modified “where appropriate” - a phrase that limits the Secretary’s obligation and evinces a Congressional intent to afford discretion in the decision whether to modify loans in certain circumstances."
The way to defeat this (as was done in Huxtable v. Geithner, before the case was settled or abandoned) is to show FACTS which demonstrate that the Government is actually enforcing a different policy. In that case, it doesn't matter what the enabling language says, what decides the policy is what the government is DOING. What OTHER facts show that the Government is pursuing this different policy?
One of those facts is the factual conclusions the government ITSELF has come to. What has it really concluded in the secret, back rooms? We know now that there is an individually enforceable right to a HAMP modification which in FACT minimizes the risk of default (not the ridiculous 31%). It's either on a Fifth Amendment Due Process theory (Huxtable v. Geithner) or a third party beneficiary Federal common law theory (Marques v. Lorenz).
If in addition the Government ITSELF has decided there is no further economic incentive to foreclose, and there are reductions in principal balances owed and adjustments to gross income for those reductions, then all the facts show that the Government's ONLY policy is to prevent foreclosures, because economics and law show no facts in favor of going forward with foreclosing and taking title.
A big change has occurred with Reggie Middleton's (www.boombustblog.com) analysis that considering returns in relations to chargeoffs, there either is now or within a few months will be, no objective economic incentive to foreclose. It will make, in fact, MORE economic sense for banks to simply leave title with the owner.
The current actions of the government--expanding HAMP availability and at the same time submitting phony documents to hurry up foreclosures--reflects the fact that the U.S. has a new policy--minimizing risk of housing loss--but is trying to spin it such that people will continue pay on mortgages. It's a hopeless situation, because with these robo-affidavits, lawsuits are going to bring out all these facts, you are going to have sales set aside, and the whole thing will be litigation for twenty years. Civil discovery alone will reach right into the White House.
Real estate lawyers will soon be our wealthy overlords. Watch out the squid!
The world is a vampire........
Secret destroyers, hold you up to the flames
And what do I get, for my pain?
Betrayed desires, and a piece of the game
Even though I know - I suppose I'll show
All my cool and cold - like old job
Despite all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9a1OtHoJvg
Maybe we'll escape our cage . . .
Live in it like ya stole it
Buying a home is for suckers. Just steal it.
That's the new paradigm in America.
Breaking News: HGTV to start new show on how to live mortgage free in McMansion without paying mortgage.
Nope. My wife an i watch HGTV a bunch of times. I forget the show name but is about a family looking to sell their house. Its a different family each week. The realtor tells them to add some lipstick and rouge to the house and lower the price. They say they cant lower the price becasue they will loose money. THe show ends with them renting out for a loss and everyone is sad. I asked my wife, why didnt they short sale or let them foreclose? these two options make the most sense.
We both figured it out, HGTV is marketing for the banks. They do not want us couch mortgage payers to even think foreclosure is an option. RENT if you cant sell, even if you loose money....but keep paying!!!
EXACTLY!
Just like the Travel Channel is marketing for Vegas and the cruise industry.
"But, gee, I seen it on TeeVee, so it must be what everyone else is doing"
don't own a TV, but I'm betting your HGTV was heavily promoting those "flip yer house" & various "home improvements" for HD / Home Depot not that long ago. .
television is pretty much infomercials and mind entrainment. . .
[edit: junk'd by anonymous TV fan, who'da thunk]
The question I have is MBS. If no one is paying their mortgages, how do the MBS pay out to those who own them? Even with Bennie backing them, the money flow is going to run dry.
Um, badly, very badly, since all were rated AAA or pretty much all. That's the underlying problem with the banks and the reason for all the off balance sheet nonsense, all the accounting rule changes, etc. Well, that and all the CDS that blew up.
Just another sunny moment in our world of corporate feudalism!
Coming to a Fan Near You Soon
JPM up on the news! Goods good, bads good, confusion good.
This is the Black Swan. An event that causes the general population to stop paying their bills.
Yes, I think so too.
When thinking about it in greater debth, it makes me think that Karma really works. Remember when JPM, Mr. Diamond got Washington Mutual for nothing? Wiped out all of the Shareholders and the Bond Holders. Interesting that now his "WIN" has turned into his worst Nightmare.
I am sure the Shareholders and Bondholders that got Sc*rewed out of their Money feel vindicated.
I'll be vindicated when they're taking showers with Bubba.
++
Yes, funny. I am thinking of my sister. Her mortgage was bought by WF from broker. Then sold to WAMU. Then, back to WF. All within the space of a few months in the last few years. I told her to stop paying. She's been too chicken to yet, but I sent her all these headlines and I am hoping she sees the light. I would bet half my PMs they don't have clear title. At least she would get something out of this shit. Stupid me, I paid for my house.
CNBS, late of course. Finally got around to presenting last week's NEWS.
I can hear NerObama, or any republican say, 'this foreclosure thing ties our hands, we must keep the banks capitalized with so much tied up in this...thus QE 2.314159265 (yes that's Pi after the decimal to represent the big circle jerk going on now)
I guess those trillions in excess reserves should tide them over.
And you thought it was hard to get a mortgage last week.
Will be impossible to get one now.
I must be missing something cuz my little brain tells me that when you buy something, borrow the money from the bank, you should pay it back....... otherwise don't buy it.
If you don't make the payments then get the fuck out. What makes people think they can live in a house they knew they couldn't afford, drive cars, vacations and spend beyond their means and the banks are the bad guys? I don't like the banksters just as the next guy but come on.....get real. The whole idea is to live within our means and if you don't and can't pay for the stuff you bought then that's your own fault and not the one who lent you the money.
What about those that have paid off their mortgages.......are we idiots?
Yes, but not for your insane reasons.
Because the banks have been doing alot more than this for 40 years.
This is 1/100000th what the banks have done.
Remember, it was the BANKS that fucked this process up.
Reality kind of sucks doesn't it. But only if you aren't aware of reality. Guess you weren't. Welcome to it.
But I guess it's only the little guy deserves to suffer, in your myopic view.
...and no I do believe in taking out loans you actually want to pay back.
Don't point your finger at your fellow man, point it at the banks that created this fucked up process that now has made a mockery of housing loans. It was THEIR bad. Pointing your fingers at your fellow screwed man is for losers.
Besides what is 'our means', in this fucked up British Monetary system. You may hate the banksters as much as me, but still don't realize how much of the pie they had their hands on, and ate.
It was their rules, their loans, their fuckups.
Now we have a bad solution, or a worse solution. This is bad, allowing them to continue this is worse.
That's why you don't let the whore's in the door to begin with. That's why you fight for REGULATIONS. That's why you make sure there isn't regulatory capture. Because the mess is always worse than doing the right thing to begin with.
This was THEIR system. We're just all along for the ride. This one is for the little guy. Although it ain't perfect, it's better than the alternative. Yes, now we have on one large mfucking scale what (can't think of the god damn word.....it was one of the favorites used after the bailout to describe they had no skin in the game and not taking a risk)
Now you can bet more will not pay. This was predictable, which is why you never let it get here. But I guess my fellow American voters all voted for BS reasons, and never held any of them to account. This is what we get.
Blame the banksters. This is THEIR BAD, and don't you dare forget it.
yes!
i had this same discussion not more than an hour ago with a close
associate. i will say no more on that.
but i will say this system we live by, breath by, dream by ...
of publicly/privately created fiat currency created out of a promise to pay and
exponentially expanded, with more interest and principle due, by primary,
secondary and tertiary dealers,(speculators) with more promises to pay ,
and expanding and consuming more time, energy, resources , attention "education"
he he he, and all of it in an unsustainable mathematically impossible usury clusterfuck.....
will not , as has been said, HOLD THE CENTER> . think about it. we have bigger problems
than the evaporated pipe dreams of stoner children that got fooled into borrowing
enough financial commitment to destroy a feudal King, even with their "bling".
the "system" has an expiration date, a self destruct detonation device implanted in it's heart.
boom. and we are supposed to lay down and die when we hear the sound.
he he he ..... it is the banks that must die. the world and people do not need them to
tell us when we are dead. we create them. see? and it has nothing to do with gold or
mercury or silver or uranium or oxygen or carbon dioxide or calcium or helium etc...
but..... we go on.......fornicating for fun and nothing. ever notice how the best part is when
it is over with? ( that last sentence was a contribution from my demented step child
alter ego ). apologies where called for.
ps. i am not in my prime but past that point. an/or more american/s, signing off.
keyword: denunciation.
i am all for your keyword: denunciation.
power to denunciators.
u crack me up. too funny much! and then some....
The issue is that the banks are taking homes that dont belong to them.
FNM owns the mortgage paper but JPM is taking ownership.
In some cases the banks are just forging court documents, and serving them to people whom have already paid off their mortgage.
This is a big issue.
You have to ask a question. What if the guy I borrowed the money for my house sold the loan and it was sold again and again and you finally figure the guy collecting your money has no right to it anymore than he has a right kick you out if you stop paying. Should you keep on paying him if the courts are thinking like you are: Tough shit, that 200 grand you paid is gone , now start over and pay back your loan.".
You can be the guy who does the right thing at the wrong time and still go bankrupt and no one will ever help you. America has gotten to a place where the populace is downright mean . They are mean to their fellow Americans and they'd kick puppies if they wouldn't get arrested.
No one has been arrested for this shit. Yet these are crimes that don't need indictments anymore than the kid who steals $20 bucks with a fake gun form a 7/11. These were done right out in the open and chances are there is security tapes of it all over the country that are being burned as fast as they can go through them.
We got corrupt law enforcement, corrupt people in power in every area of power stealing as much as they can from the people who can least afford to defend themselves and you want to stand next to them and say "you have to pay the loan back, it's your moral duty".
Good luck with that line with the pitchfork crowd .
You are on my shortlist of "must read". I was less than positive the first time I responded to you, many, many moons ago. Always great stuff.
It means: "Strap yourself in Dorothy, Kansas is going bye-bye!" -- Cypher
So correct me if I am wrong here but the lesson learned is to stop paying your mortgage, save the money, wait a YEAR or so before the folks slammed with paperwork can foreclose, let the property be sold to someone at a silly discounted price, then challenge in court that it wasn't a legitimate sale and buy the property back at that price, owing far less than originally owed to begin with, right?
Sounds like how people pulled together in the first Depression. Penny auctions: http://www.livinghistoryfarm.org/farminginthe30s/money_10.html
no way they'll get to buy back property...but there might be something in there
Until they force me to pay my mortgage in hard currency, I will keep paying it with a smile. Alternatively, when the Fed declares all US homeowners to be PD's and I can repo my house back to them at par. By then, the new Bernanke Bucks should be in circulation.
Long 100 JPM Oct 37 Puts. Almost there...