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Janet Tavakoli On The "Biggest Fraud In The History Of Capital Markets"

Tyler Durden's picture





 

In the following interview with the WaPo's Ezra Klein, Janet Tavakoli shares some more information on why every bank is about to shut down all foreclosures, in what she calls the "biggest fraud in the history of capital markets." Not very surprisingly, we are, so far, spot on in our 29th September projected timeline at this point: "We predict that within a week, all banks will halt every foreclosure currently in process. Within a month, all foreclosures executed within the past 2-3 years will be retried, and millions of existing home sales will be put in jeopardy."

Ezra Klein: What’s happening here? Why are we suddenly faced with a crisis that wasn’t apparent two weeks ago?

Janet Tavakoli: This is the biggest fraud in the history of the
capital markets. And it’s not something that happened last week. It
happened when these loans were originated, in some cases years ago.
Loans have representations and warranties that have to be met. In the
past, you had a certain period of time, 60 to 90 days, where you sort
through these loans and, if they’re bad, you kick them back. If the
documentation wasn’t correct, you’d kick it back. If you found the
incomes of the buyers had been overstated, or the houses had been
appraised at twice their worth, you’d kick it back. But that didn’t
happen here. And it turned out there were loan files that were missing
required documentation. Part of putting the deal together is that the
securitization professional, and in this case that’s banks like Goldman
Sachs and JP Morgan, has to watch for this stuff. It’s called perfecting
the security interest, and it’s not optional.

EK: And how much danger are the banks themselves in?

JT: When we had the financial crisis, the first thing the banks did
was run to Congress and ask for accounting relief. They asked to be able
to avoid pricing this stuff at the price where people would buy them.
So no one can tell you the size of the hole in these balance sheets.
We’ve thrown a lot of money at it. TARP was just the tip of the iceberg.
We’ve given them guarantees on debts, low-cost funding from the Fed.
But a lot of these mortgages just cannot be saved. Had we acknowledged
this problem in 2005, we could’ve cleaned it up for a few hundred
billion dollars. But we didn’t. Banks were lying and committing fraud,
and our regulators were covering them and so a bad problem has become a
hellacious one.

EK: My understanding is that this now pits the banks against
the investors they sold these products too. The investors are going to
court to argue that the products were flawed and the banks need to take
them back.

JT: Many investors now are waking up to the fact that they were
defrauded. Even sophisticated investors. If you did your due diligence
but material information was withheld, you can recover. It’ll be a
case-by-by-case basis.

EK: Given that our financial system is still fragile, isn’t that a disaster for the economy? Will credit freeze again?

JT: I disagree. In order to make the financial system healthy, we
need to recognize the extent of our losses and begin facing the fraud.
Then the market will be trustworthy again and people will start to
participate.

EK: It sounds almost like you’re saying we still need to go through the end of our financial crisis.

JT: Yes, but I wouldn’t say crisis. This can be done with a
resolution trust corporation, the way we cleaned up the S&Ls. The
system got back on its feet faster because we grappled with the
problems. The shareholders would be wiped out and the debt holders would
have to take a discount on their debt and they’d get a debt-for-equity
swap. Instead we poured TARP money into a pit and meanwhile the banks
are paying huge bonuses to some people who should be made accountable
for fraud. The financial crisis was a product of our irrational
reaction, which protected crony capitalism rather than capitalism. In
capitalism, the shareholders who took the risk would be wiped out and
the debt holders would take a discount but banking would go on.

 


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Fri, 10/08/2010 - 14:20 | Link to Comment NOTW777
NOTW777's picture

accountability in this system??  wow thats asking alot

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 14:27 | Link to Comment NOTW777
NOTW777's picture

so, her conclusion: much of the housing and finance market is built on fraud

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 14:32 | Link to Comment Bob
Bob's picture

Shocking, no?

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 15:25 | Link to Comment NOTW777
NOTW777's picture

might be for the general public that listens to MSM

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 16:15 | Link to Comment NOTW777
NOTW777's picture

how many months before the general public hears this?

how long can the MSM ignore zerohedge - a voice calling in the wilderness

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 17:08 | Link to Comment chopper read
chopper read's picture

+1

 

I'll bet "Money Rocks", as part of the MSM, picks up on this story soon.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 15:29 | Link to Comment imapopulistnow
imapopulistnow's picture

Her conclusion is that the evidence needed to prosecute this fraud is finally coming to the surface.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 20:03 | Link to Comment Voodoo Economics
Voodoo Economics's picture

Now that all the top brASS at the various institutions have set up their partnership interests in the "spun out" prop trading desks -

IT IS TIME TO GET RID OF THE UP-TICK RULE AND REINSTATE THE MARK-TO-MARKET RULE (the rule that dumbass Markowitz drones begged for) for the banks, again, so that the masters of the universe can profit once again by shorting these dead banks, and the country can take care of the situation in an orderly manner.

Oh, yeah, since the SEC has taken care of the HFT CASE and issues (Ie. found and categorized the best porn sites on the internet) they should be able to make sure that there is no naked shorting to occur by the former "prop traders" that would improperly enhance their profits during this forced liquidation.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 21:23 | Link to Comment hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

It is people like you that cause unrest.

I love it.  Thank you.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 05:21 | Link to Comment Pondmaster
Pondmaster's picture

Meanwhile..... the shameless charlatans in Congress slip through a bill with no discussion, with NO MEDIA coverage . Why? To let the banks once again slide . If this is not enough evidence to the American sheeple that D.C. and its denizens ,to a man!, are not public enemy #1 , I don't know what will wake us up . I pray November see an outright slaughter of these felons . I am for the first time grateful to our President for making one right decision on behalf of the American people . May the crooks who are robbing us receive 100 fold the grief they have placed on America .     

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 18:33 | Link to Comment Eternal Student
Eternal Student's picture

I think everyone has missed the more important points regarding this bill. At least I haven't seen them discussed.

Far more important than the contents of this bill is the way in which it was done. First, it shows the power that someone out there has. They managed to slip this one by the House with no debate, and no recorded votes, back in April. Then they managed to do the same thing with the Senate in September. This is not only a characteristic of power, but also of skill. They knew exactly what had to be done, and how to do it.

Second, this bill was first introduced back in 2005 IIRC. Someone knew what was going to happen back then. And we've seen other evidence of this, with the Bankruptcy reform bill, which seriously tightened the ways of being able to get out of debt. The Bankers knew back then what was going to come down, and set about protecting themselves quite well.

In short, there is someone (or a group of folks) out there with serious power, skill and knowledge. People talk about such things in passing, but seldom do you see something done so expertly. In the computer biz, this is the sign of a superb cracker. There are very, very few of these; and they are the ones you have to watch out for.

The only saving grace appears to be that they can seriously screw up. They should've gotten this done back in 2006. No one would've thought twice about it then, and it would be a done deal now.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 21:20 | Link to Comment SheHunter
SheHunter's picture

Taking what you are saying as true, yes.  Indeed deeply distubing.  Since 2005?

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 22:07 | Link to Comment Eternal Student
Eternal Student's picture

Yes, the bill was originally introduced in 2005. Here's what the bill's sponser had to say:

http://blog.al.com/breaking/2010/10/obama_vetoes_bill_sponsored_by.html

"... Aderholt said. "I first introduced this legislation in April of 2005, and obviously there was no concern about weakening the foreclosure documentation process at that time. This is a bill that would help people and I am disappointed that it was vetoed."

I agree it wasn't obvioius to most everyone then what the game plan was. It sure is obvious now. And it was apparently obvious to someone back then.

power + skill + knowledge is a very powerful combination, indeed.

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 00:47 | Link to Comment SheHunter
SheHunter's picture

!  Indeed.

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 07:58 | Link to Comment Bringin It
Bringin It's picture

Thanks for the background ES.  Do you know why it failed in 2005?

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 12:32 | Link to Comment Eternal Student
Eternal Student's picture

No idea. Perhaps enough Political Capital had been spent getting the tougher Bankruptcy provisions passed. Far more likely is that someone was being too cheap, and didn't pony up the money to get it passed.

Here's an interesting quote, btw:

"A brief review of the funding of Harry Reid’s campaigns ...: he is one of the top recipients of campaign cash from big banks.

...My bet is that if we thoroughly investigate the process by which this bill reached the White House, we’ll discover it is far better described as a modern Teapot Dome scandal than a tempest in a teapot."

http://www.cnbc.com/id/39574916/

 

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 23:37 | Link to Comment CrackSmokeRepublican
CrackSmokeRepublican's picture

The Jewish Financial Crimes, Ripoffs and Scams are very easy to understand...

Just look at the Jewish Babylonian Talmud -- CSR

-------

Some Teachings of the Jewish Talmud

Where a Jew Should Do Evil

Moed Kattan 17a: If a Jew is tempted to do evil he should go to a city where he is not known and do the evil there.

Penalty for Disobeying Rabbis

Erubin 21b. Whosoever disobeys the rabbis deserves death and will be punished by being boiled in hot excrement in hell.

Hitting a Jew is the same as hitting God

Sanhedrin 58b. If a heathen (gentile) hits a Jew, the gentile must be killed.

O.K. to Cheat Non-Jews

Sanhedrin 57a . A Jew need not pay a gentile ("Cuthean", "Goyim") the wages owed him for work.

Jews Have Superior Legal Status

Baba Kamma 37b. "If an ox of an Israelite gores an ox of a Canaanite there is no liability; but if an ox of a Canaanite gores an ox of an Israelite...the payment is to be in full."

Jews May Steal from Non-Jews

Baba Mezia 24a . If a Jew finds an object lost by a gentile ("heathen") it does not have to be returned. (Affirmed also in Baba Kamma 113b). Sanhedrin 76a. God will not spare a Jew who "marries his daughter to an old man or takes a wife for his infant son or returns a lost article to a Cuthean..."

Jews May Rob and Kill Non-Jews

Sanhedrin 57a . When a Jew murders a gentile ("Cuthean"), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a gentile he may keep.

Baba Kamma 37b. The gentiles are outside the protection of the law and God has "exposed their money to Israel."

Jews May Lie to Non-Jews

Baba Kamma 113a. Jews may use lies ("subterfuges") to circumvent a Gentile.

Non-Jewish Children are Sub-Human

Yebamoth 98a. All gentile children are animals.

Abodah Zarah 36b. Gentile girls are in a state of niddah (filth) from birth.

Abodah Zarah 22a-22b . Gentiles prefer sex with cows.

Insults Against Blessed Mary

Sanhedrin 106a . Says Jesus' mother was a whore: "She who was the descendant of princes and governors played the harlot with carpenters." Also in footnote #2 to Shabbath 104b of the Soncino edition, it is stated that in the "uncensored" text of the Talmud it is written that Jesus mother, "Miriam the hairdresser," had sex with many men.

http://www.revisionisthistory.org/talmudtruth.html

Historian William Popper states: "It was not always that long passages...were censored...but often single words alone were omitted...Often, in these cases, another method of correction was used in place of omission--substitution." (Cf. William Popper, The Censorship of Hebrew Books pp. 58-59).

For example, the translators of the English Soncino version of the Talmud sometimes render the Hebrew word goyim (Gentiles) under any number of disguise words such as "heathen, Cuthean, Kushite, Egyptian, idolater" etc. But these are actually references to Gentiles (all non-Jews). Footnotes for certain passages in the Soncino Talmud translation state: "Cuthean (Samaritan) was here substituted for the original goy..."

The heirs of the Pharisees often deny the existence of the Talmud passages here cited, in order to brazenly claim that such passages are the "fabrications of anti-Semites."

In 1994, the 80 year old Lady Jane Birdwood was arrested and prosecuted in a criminal court in London, England for the "crime" of publishing in her pamphlet, The Longest Hatred, the truthful statement that the Talmud contains anti-Gentile and anti-Christian passages. (She was accused of violating the Public Order Act of 1986).

In the course of her Orwellian thought-crime trial, which was ignored by the U.S. media, a rabbi was called as a prosecution witness. The rabbi proceeded to flatly deny that the Talmud contained anti-Gentile or anti-Christian passages and on the basis of the rabbi's "prestige," this elderly and ailing woman was sentenced to three months in jail and fined the equivalent of $1,000.

Like Madoff, Blankfein, Bernanke or Greenspan, etc.... typical Jew Sh*t... spewed on the "Goyim"...

 

----------

Lady Birdwood's work "The Longest Hatred" --

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/hatred.htm

 

THE BANKING RACKET

HAVE YOU ever wondered where the Banks get all their money from? When they grant you a loan or allow you an overdraft, where does the money come from? According to Frederick Soddy, former eminent Oxford University Professor, Banks are:
      “Institutions which pretend to lend money, and do not lend it, but create it, and when it is repaid to them, de-create it and have achieved the physically impossible miracle thereby, not only of getting something for nothing but also of getting perennial interest from it.”
      So the Banks create money out of nothing and charge you, the customer, over 10% interest to borrow it. And woe betide you if you default.
      It is a delusion promoted by the Banks themselves that they are merely the custodians of their customers’ deposits, that they lend these same deposits, and that their profit consists of the difference in the rate of interest they pay depositors, and the interest they receive from borrowers.
      The truth is that no Bank lends as much as a penny of the money deposited with it. Every Bank loan or overdraft is a creation of entirely new money (credit) and is a clear addition to the amount of money in the community. It is no more than a record in a Bank ledger or computer and is actually the creation of new money out of nothing.
      When an account is drawn on by cheque and the cheque is lodged in another account at the same or another Bank, a deposit is created and the supply of money increased. Thus Bank loans create “deposits” which are not the source of loan money, but rather the other way round—they are the outcome of loans. Banks can create credit virtually without restraint. But usually sound Banking practice limits the creation of credit to nine or ten times the amount of cash or legal tender which a Bank holds.
      When it is said that a particular Bank has so many million in deposits, it is erroneously believed that it actually has this amount of money to lend out. It is a complete delusion. Those deposits are not cash at all—they are nothing but an enormous superstructure of credit.

On June 25th, 1863, the Rothschild Brothers sent a letter to Messrs Ikleheimer, Morton and Vandergould at No. 3 Wall Street, New York, which included the following passage setting out the system by which Banks monopolize the creation, control and distribution of the nation’s money from nothing and charge exorbitant interest to borrow it:
      “The few who understand the system ... will either be so interested in its profits or so dependent on its favours that there will be no opposition from that class, while on the other hand the great body of people mentally incapable of comprehending the tremendous advantages that capital derives from the system, will bear its burdens without complaint and perhaps even without suspecting that the system is inimical to them.”

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 01:54 | Link to Comment tmosley
tmosley's picture

Da JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOS!!!11!@!

Well, at least your name is accurate.  You get bonus points for truth in advertising.

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 08:05 | Link to Comment Bringin It
Bringin It's picture

Your description of the Banking Racket is excellent.  Why don't you put something together as a contributor??

About the Talmud, I believe what you have pointed out.  I believe that some Jews Believe that, But I do not believe that all Jews believe that.

A lot of religions have some crazy skeletons in the closet.

Peace.

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 12:14 | Link to Comment aheady
aheady's picture

Agree.

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 16:14 | Link to Comment Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 23:43 | Link to Comment Bringin It
Bringin It's picture

Good post ET.

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 16:19 | Link to Comment Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

[edit - tried to move this post up where it was a reply to Bringing It & Eternal Student's posts, sorry it's "down" here, sigh]

there is a handy tool to help uncover the origins - and origin-ators - of these bills as they weave their way from through the maze of gov't,

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-3808&tab=related

I've used this for a while now, and it shows how those "elected" drones work on a longer timeline - passing the ball back 'n' forth, from "side" to "side" over years, modify the language slightly as certain words are dropped from vocabulary due to public scrutiny. . . it's actually fascinating to watch the machine at work, in a gut-tightening way. . .

as you can see, this current action against the public has roots in. . . 1998 ^^

(thanks for the posts Eternal Student)

 

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 18:36 | Link to Comment Eternal Student
Eternal Student's picture

You're welcome, and thanks for the link.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 15:53 | Link to Comment G-R-U-N-T
G-R-U-N-T's picture
"Biggest Fraud In The History Of Capital Markets"

Sorry but this pales to the fraud that is being perpetrated by Cap-and-Trade.

What William Black and Harry Markopolos are to the sub prime bank and accounting frauds Hal Lewis is to the Climate Change and Cap-and-Trade frauds...All of these people including Tavakoli who are not afraid to stand up against such ravenous looting frenzies are real American hero's and of course us ZH'rs who have the balls and critical thinking skills to pull the covers off these perverted parasitical cons.

http://thegwpf.org/ipcc-news/1670-hal-lewis-my-resignation-from-the-amer...

 

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 17:25 | Link to Comment chopper read
chopper read's picture

great post. thank you, GRUNT. wow. 

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 19:13 | Link to Comment Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

Thanks Grunt.

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 02:20 | Link to Comment chopper read
chopper read's picture

cheers. 

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 05:31 | Link to Comment i-dog
i-dog's picture

Solid ammo. Thanks.

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 07:36 | Link to Comment Diggintunnels
Diggintunnels's picture

It is to my amazement that this side of the debate is completely smothered.  Another approach to the sheer insanity of the 'man made' climate change disciples is examined in a book called "Cool It" by Borg Lomborg.  Stating, even if climate approach is 'man made' which is highly debatable, the way the climate nuts are going about their 'do good' efforts are totally useless and a waste of resources. 

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 14:08 | Link to Comment G-R-U-N-T
G-R-U-N-T's picture

I like the way Ball runs the analogy in part 4 as he explains how the frauds have convinced the naive and ignorant of the world that if you can show the by-product of these industrialized nations (C02) is destroying the climate, causing run away global warming and now climate change then you can place restrictions on C02 production. I visualize these sick minded perverted parasitical frauds rubbing their filthy greedy hands together thinking deep down inside "let the looting begin" with a deep seated primal devilish laugh!!!!!

http://www.entertonement.com/collections/zqftwsclyg--Scary

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 14:47 | Link to Comment SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

What? The housing and finance market is nothing but a fraud? Shocking news! Oh wait, we knew that all along since the 2008 crash. Why is this 'news' now?

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 15:04 | Link to Comment Assetman
Assetman's picture

It's not like Janet wasn't talking fraud in the financial system months ago.

She's just gained a larger audience, starting with the pension funds that are getting the #$%$#@ defrauded out of them.

We should thank our lucky stars someone as knowlegable Janet Tavakoli is parading this issue in the media.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 00:30 | Link to Comment FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

William Black has said the same things.  He was lead man in cleaning up the S&Ls and needs to be brought back to clean up this mess. 

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 15:19 | Link to Comment B9K9
B9K9's picture

Actually, the whole entire system was founded upon wide-spread, systemic fraud dating back to 1694.

Riddle me this: What sovereign funds have never defaulted (since 1694)? Now for a hint: What sovereign empire wiped out the indigenous peoples of two separate continents, expropriated all their assets, and then promoted the largest emigration (ie land sales boom) in recorded history?

As an added bonus, what entity enslaved the peoples of another continent, subjugated yet another to cultivate the production of lethal drugs, and backed by military power, forced yet one more continental nation to allow dispensing the aforementioned drugs?

[Answer key: N America and Australia/NZ; Africa, India->Opium and Hong Kong/China.]

Now, putting aside the moral dimension for a moment, let us consider this issue strictly from a fundamental basis. To wit, if it took this much coercion, dare I say it, systemic fraud, to prop up a corrupt system of this magnitude and for this long, what happens when all the 'economic' bases that drove continuous inflation are removed and taken away? (Granted there have been significant dips, yet recall that the GB has never defaulted to date, so there really hasn't been material deflation.)

I don't think anyone really wants to know. What we are all going to eventually find out is what is the true value of any productive asset? (That is, what is income? What are expenses?) The level of chaos necessary to clear the back dated fraud is so immense as to (almost) understand why all jurisprudence has been cast aside in a mad attempt towards preventing collapse.

Janet is wrong in terms of the magnitude; housing was just the last straw of a very long cycle.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 15:36 | Link to Comment B9K9
B9K9's picture

It is important to note that none of this history/information is a surprise to the power-elite. History isn't complicated - age old biological drivers induce the same reactions in every generation, which is why the future is foretold for those who wish to see.

They also don't dick around with PC. In fact, they're the ones who promoted PC as a means of distracting others; ingenious, really. And lastly, they are well aware of resource depletion, environmental degradation and population overshoot. Anybody can conduct a 1 day experiment in a petri dish.

Add it up, and the power-elite know damn well if the last minute reflation attempts are unsuccessful, then this is going to be a 300 year old reset. Combine it with peak resources, and they don't have to be told twice there is going to be an immense die-off of epic proportions.

So exactly what do you think they are doing to prepare? As the ship goes down and the sheep look out to see a few life boats bobbing on the seas, will they finally recognize they were played the entire time?

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 15:41 | Link to Comment RichardENixon
RichardENixon's picture

So are you saying this is a buying opportunity, or would you advise going short?

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 20:05 | Link to Comment faustian bargain
faustian bargain's picture

lol

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 20:58 | Link to Comment razorthin
razorthin's picture

when is a bull a lemming?

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 17:31 | Link to Comment chopper read
chopper read's picture

now THAT was funny!

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 17:55 | Link to Comment scaleindependent
scaleindependent's picture

Correct B9, but you may have to agree that never before has their fury been laser focused on their own middle class as it is now.

Previously they dined on third world countries, practicing large-scale international usury, but tell me a previous time where the meat and potatoes was the regular American?

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 02:25 | Link to Comment jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

have you forgotten "the forgotten man"?  1840's, 1870-1900, 1930's, for example.  the deflationary depressions.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 06:21 | Link to Comment nicholforest
nicholforest's picture

The middle class are redundent - replaced by drones, robots, stuxnet and assorted off-shore dark factories.

As the educated voice of the media they need to be removed and are now the target.

Welcome to economic feudalism - aux armes!

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 18:00 | Link to Comment tony bonn
tony bonn's picture

your analysis is not junk....it is excellent insight...keep writing..

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 20:37 | Link to Comment Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Ok, I'll bite for all those here of my newbie persuasion, what then are they doing to prepare?  "So exactly what do you think they are doing to prepare?"

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 02:33 | Link to Comment jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

selling paper assets (check out corporate control insiders buy/sell ratio), buying gold (in some actual cases by the ton) and moving it "to another location" (recent quotation from a swiss private banker).  likely some food and energy futures positions.  others can speculate further and i invite them to do so.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 03:06 | Link to Comment Bringin It
Bringin It's picture

Buying land in certain land locked and sparsely inhabited S. American countries?

Devouring web trafic data?

Manipulating the weather?

I dunno?  What else?

-54 - -66 = twelve.

 

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 13:27 | Link to Comment francismarion
francismarion's picture

Bringin it

A special thought for you. Comment around 470

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 18:56 | Link to Comment Bringin It
Bringin It's picture

Hey SwampNuts - You can comment around 666 where you belong.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 17:35 | Link to Comment chopper read
chopper read's picture

so they're doing what we are doing?

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 22:40 | Link to Comment Bringin It
Bringin It's picture

B9BK - Your posts are excellent, yet I see this one got 6 junks.  WTF?

Thanks.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 23:41 | Link to Comment merehuman
merehuman's picture

Good to see you here Bringin it. many hate the truth, run from it. Silly me in a crowded waiting room my big mouth runs, some laugh, then i pop the question " any of you folks prepared for hyperinflation this winter? have you got your food stocked? 6 or 7 people, each turned to stone of a sudden. Not a word said after.

Folks in the gulf are in the denial about the "flue " they have. bleeding from the anus is embarrassing and frightening. media blackout on the issue.

911 . definetively a well executed demolition any demo contractor would be proud of.It took a lot of balls to set the charges and very poor morals to set it off while full of people , one person pushed that button.

3 x.

And we still want to believe the muslims did it. Denial.

Lord , i feel alone in my hood and i done a bunch to wake folks up.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 00:29 | Link to Comment Bringin It
Bringin It's picture

Hi MH.  Jim Willie's saying first responders found bodies in closets and lockers while the demo was underway.  The assassins killing off the assassins to contain the loose lips potential.

It is impossible to over come the brain washing of the vast majority at the kool-aide trough.  Almost all my family members are in denial.  Only after a few more aspects of the disaster take effect will they realize them and theirs are in serious danger.  Based on the blatant stupidity displayed to date, who knows where the enraged mob will turn/ be directed to vent their rage.

Mako says no one gets out alive.  I don't know.  My solution is to keep some distance until the dust settles.  Maybe you should consider same?  How's the garden coming along?  I think everyone should grow their own ... food. 

Chok Dee Pee.  /Good Luck Bro.

 

 

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 06:15 | Link to Comment Shylockracy
Shylockracy's picture

Had the Rothschild ruffians followed their initial plans and invaded Argentina instead of Palestine, the so-called 'War on Terror' would be against Gauchos, not Muslims.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 07:38 | Link to Comment Mako
Mako's picture

Getting as far away as the rest of the nutbag horde is about as best you can do while bound to this floating rock.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 10:02 | Link to Comment Wynn
Wynn's picture

Run away and hide? Fuck that. Go from living inside a civilized society to eating MRE's and sleeping with one eye open? No doctors, no re-supply, nothing ... but extended survival? Again, fuck that. 

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 19:06 | Link to Comment Bringin It
Bringin It's picture

I was going to say something about Gaugin, but then I saw he died young of alcoholism and syphilis.  Anyways, no need to eat MREs or the one-eye-open thing.  The world is a big big place with some very lovely pockets.  But living inside the propaganda walls of the best place there ever was or ever will be, makes it hard to see what's really going on outside.

ps. We have no FrankenFood.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 20:44 | Link to Comment Cammy Le Flage
Cammy Le Flage's picture

Where is the civilized society you mention located?  Don't even begin to tell me it is "this" one.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 20:38 | Link to Comment tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

"I think everyone should grow their own ... food."

who would have thunk that growing food is the ultimate revolutionary act?  

grow it and they will come.

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 09:16 | Link to Comment Bringin It
Bringin It's picture

Tip e.  For the first time in decades, I just put up a scarecrow.  Birds were eating the crop.  Self-sufficiency is real freedom and there's no tax on it.

Edit - That I'm aware of. ;-)

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 19:25 | Link to Comment Holden Caulfield
Holden Caulfield's picture

Sorry, not junk.

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 04:02 | Link to Comment merehuman
merehuman's picture

thank you for  the junks. Its an honor to have irritated you enuf to think, however badly. Lol

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 00:49 | Link to Comment decon
decon's picture

Yep, same thing happens to yeast in a petri dish, and the same principles are involved in both circumstances.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 18:41 | Link to Comment robobbob
robobbob's picture

Everyone talks the petri dish experiment. But there a big difference between all of the bacterium getting together to talk over planning for a difficult future, verses a handful of the elite amoebas distracting the team red and team blue protozoas, sabotaging any positive efforts, assassinating, figuratively and sometimes literally, any effective opposition leaders, all while plotting to dump bleach onto the rest, so that they may safeguard the dishes' resources for themselves. 

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 17:28 | Link to Comment Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

+1k, and one imaginative scientist award.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 00:54 | Link to Comment i-dog
i-dog's picture

I see from the number of junks that the truth is painful to many. Sad to see here, though. Keep it up, B9.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 03:49 | Link to Comment WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

+1

Merci.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 13:12 | Link to Comment uno
uno's picture

Speaking of peak resources.

 

Planet Earth has to do it's own reset.  Just thinking about the depletion of the ocean resources due to population growth:

Massive overfishing for multiple generations, drift nets

great pacific ocean plastic dump  http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/earth/oceanography/great-pacific-garbage-patch.htm

other waste ending up in the oceans (human waste, soap, fuel from boats, ships, oil spills, acid rain) 

 

Add in the increasing protein demands from China and India, there is probably only another generation or 2 before a collapse of the ocean food chain (from all the toxins/overfishing).

 

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 13:53 | Link to Comment uno
uno's picture

Comments are continuously being added, so 470 is only at point in time.  There is such a thing as a number next to the comment, perhaps you could try that, or perhaps you could formulate a reasonable reply.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 18:49 | Link to Comment robobbob
robobbob's picture

.....and yet we pay some farmers to NOT plant. and pay others to convert food into inefficient fuels

 

and still no manhattan/apollo project for next generation thorium nuke plants

 

just doing the same things over and over and people wonder why things aren't getting any better

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 16:32 | Link to Comment Pope Clement
Pope Clement's picture

Always can count on b9 to keep one focused on the longer view - 1694 BOE Bitchez "Hath benefit of interest on all the moneys which it, the bank creates out of nothing." E.P. Canto XLVI

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 16:48 | Link to Comment PeterB
PeterB's picture

This whole crisis surrounding the USD wreaks of the Red Shields "Battle of Waterloo" English bonds sting. Only the fashions have changed. I'm sure they are quietly collecting all of this debased currency in anticipation of its unexpected metamorphosis & resurrection.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 16:46 | Link to Comment tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

God Save the Queen

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 21:18 | Link to Comment Snake
Snake's picture

b9k9:  you have a lucid and honest understanding of history. chapeaux!

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 21:11 | Link to Comment Snake
Snake's picture

sorry wrong post

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 21:12 | Link to Comment Snake
Snake's picture

.

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 10:38 | Link to Comment RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Here is MERS position on the matter -- incredible misdirection!

Statement by CEO of Mortgage Electronic Registration Systems

Kansas City Register

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 16:53 | Link to Comment pamriallc
pamriallc's picture

hardly--- not fraud.  just that people got caught up in the processing and became lazy.  this still doesn't justify people scamming their way out of paying a mortgage payment because 1/200th of their mortgage wasn't papered correctly.  that's why Janet isn't jumping on everyone's bandwagon.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 17:56 | Link to Comment scaleindependent
scaleindependent's picture

Fake summons, fake signatures, fake docs, bought off AG, and judges = 1/200th of paperwork.

LOL!!!

Dude, post your checking acct number and routing number and I will show you a measly 1/200th error!

Come on. You chicken?

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 18:18 | Link to Comment still kicking
still kicking's picture

man go to hell, if that's as far as your can use your reasoning just shut the fuck up and watch it all unfold.  I'm so sick of that damn argument.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 20:06 | Link to Comment Bob
Bob's picture

You should be nicer, but it is getting old, isn't it?  Where are all these people coming from?  Day after day after day . . .

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 00:24 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

By the banks of de-nile, of course!

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 00:30 | Link to Comment Bringin It
Bringin It's picture

The Ponzi has deep pockets full of fresh FRNs.

Tue, 10/12/2010 - 14:19 | Link to Comment still kicking
still kicking's picture

Yeah I know, been working on my temper since I was about 2 years old....my apologies.

Tue, 10/12/2010 - 21:08 | Link to Comment tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

write 200 words, cha-ching!

hit save button, cha-ching!  

flip the discourse, priceless.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 19:44 | Link to Comment pamriallc
pamriallc's picture

no one made them borrow the money.  they should make their payments.  bottom line is that the only ones in foreclosure are those who arent paying.  doesn't mean that forging documents expeditiously for those who are being forclosed on either way isn excusable, but this crap doesn't solve the problem of people not being able to pay. 

there was a time in america when people acquired a home, paid about 10-12% to buy the house and then had a 10-12% mortgage.

the house would cost them -20% as an immediate loss if they tried to flip it.  we fast forward 30 years and people EXPECTED a 4% mortgage, no downpayment, and a 10-15% price increase just before they listed it themselves to sell it all while saving a bundle with no real estate agent.  to suggest that banks are liable for that "retail" stupidity and they some guy with a straw hat in Alabama at countrywide "made him do it" and now the banks who have to foreclose on that are somehow the root of 100% of the evil is a populist fantasy.  the foreclosures must be done CORRECTLY but that doesn't mean that the PEOPLE WHO DECIDED TO TAKE THE ZERO-PROBABILITY OF RISK weren't the most responsible for their own inability to pay.  maybe 3-5% of the loans in the system were pick-a-pay, and the fact is that we were at the top of a cycle.  this doesn't excuse crappy documentation, but at the top of any cycle you're going to find evidence of this.  that doesn't invalidate the risks that people chose to expose themselves to, no more than a mary meeker report showing the potential of Amazon makes her liable for someone margining the crap out of their account without the proper perspective on both ability to pay for the trade or long term desire to own the asset in the first place.  The socialist in the whitehouse will try to cram these bad debts onto bank balance sheets and forgive principal.  fine.  yet another socialized institution that became a mass market item, like the phone company.  its 100% government.  pathetic. 

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 23:39 | Link to Comment chopper read
chopper read's picture

+1, Shawn.  well put. 

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 01:59 | Link to Comment traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

Respectfully, you are missing most of the entire point of MortgageGate. 

The banks are forging documents, falsely claiming standing, and generally defrauding the courts/due process on foreclosures because they don't have the proper proof of loan ownership. 

THIS APPLIES EQUALLY TO ALL HOME LOANS ORIGINATED AND SECURITIZED DURING THOSE "TOP OF CYCLE" PROCESSES. 

This applies to loans whether in foreclosure or not. The foreclosures only brought to the forefront these documentation issues. 

TRILLIONS OF $'s IN MBS MAY NOW BE UNSECURED. CLOUDED TITLE ON MILLIONS OF HOMES. 

Title insurance in full.stop.mode. 

Defrauding the court is but one element (and please don't brush aside the rule of law so cavalierly). The real issue lurks beneath and its a GAME CHANGER. 

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 02:25 | Link to Comment chopper read
chopper read's picture

i understand, traderjoe, as it relates to the current value of mortgage backed securities.  this legal mess is a 'game changer' in this way and can very much effect the markets.  the post is very relevant.  

however, on virtually another topic, folks cannot use this as an excuse to say a borrowed house is now theirs.  the paper trail will be connected at some point, and the proper lender will be 'matched' with the borrower.  

the fact that it may take a very long time and cost a lot is 'the game changer'. 

 

 

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 02:35 | Link to Comment traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

There might be significant numbers (who knows how many) original notes that no longer exist. Whether these people get their homes for free or not will only add to the mess/quagmire this all really is. But, except for those cases (and can you imagine the race to see if you won that 'lottery'), I agree. 

Sort of to your point, I think the MSM is focusing on the foreclosure aspect for several reasons:

1. general ignorance/inability to understand MBS and that the underlying issue is very dark; 

2. it sets up the 'upstanding' v. 'deadbeat' meme which allows them to pawn off the issue onto the 'deadbeats'; and

3. the idea that systematic fraud was pervasive, permitted, and well-compensated <could> prove to be the tipping point to a serious ripping of the social fabric. 

Just some thoughts...

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 02:39 | Link to Comment chopper read
chopper read's picture

+1

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 10:27 | Link to Comment scaleindependent
scaleindependent's picture

+1

What people fail to realize is that the current foreclosuregate is not due to haste in paperwork processing, but it is an ongoing method to paper over the original fraud at origination and sale of MBS.

For example, some banks sold the house to at least two MBS investors. D'oh!

Somehow they have to hide that...

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 10:40 | Link to Comment Mako
Mako's picture

No, it gets worse than that... they sold an obligation based on a non-existent loan to two investors and there is no one that can acquire standing even if it did exist to foreclose. 

:)

Why are people looking for paper work that can't possible exist under Law.  If the bank shows paperwork that they lent their own credit, well that is against the statutory laws of the United States.  :) 

Wed, 10/13/2010 - 10:26 | Link to Comment chopper read
chopper read's picture

i appreciate the explanation, which is making a lot of sense.  thank you. 

but are not mortgage payements filtered through to the investor in a mortgage-backed-security?  if this is the case, do you know how two different MBSs can receive payment from the same underlying mortgage, if this is the case? 

these are the only dots that i am not yet connnecting. 

 

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 17:05 | Link to Comment chopper read
chopper read's picture

wow.  thats new information to me. 

my question is this: if a MBS is receiving mortgage payments from the underlying borrower, how can that payment go to another MBS at the same time?  was this double accounting and outright 'paper' fraud (Bernie Madoff style)?

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 07:49 | Link to Comment Freewheelin Franklin
Freewheelin Franklin's picture

I think you need to go a little deeper. There was a time... Well, what changed? Did people go into banks and start demanding 0 down, 4% lowns? What facilitated the  ability of the banks to offer these terms, in the first place?

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 08:14 | Link to Comment Diggintunnels
Diggintunnels's picture

Who holds the actual deeds to these properties? 

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 10:42 | Link to Comment Mako
Mako's picture

pamriallc

Sorry buddy, the bank does not lend nor fund lending. Fiction.

Tue, 10/12/2010 - 14:19 | Link to Comment still kicking
still kicking's picture

What burns me here is that you don't address the banks.  If the homeowner should be accountable then so should the bank they made a shitty loan which is a bad business practice, so they shouldn't be bailed out either, instead the government allows them to reposses the home (not really a problem) but then turns around and changes accounting rules and gives them billions to cover their asses for their bad loans i.e. fraud.  So I think if you ask 100% of the Americans in this country if they would rather let the banks have the house and the bailout money or let the underwater homeowner keep the house about 95% would be in favor of the lesser evil of letting "the deadbeat" keep the house.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 07:11 | Link to Comment Mercury
Mercury's picture

Well what is going to happen to all those home owners whose mortgage titles were fraudulently handled?  Should they really be hitting the "free house" lottery after putting 1% down on a McMansion they could never hope to pay off?  Where's my free house? Who do you think is ultimately going to cover the loss on the bad mortgage?

I'll give you a hint: it rhymes with shmackshmayer.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 08:11 | Link to Comment ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

You really DON'T get the bigger picture here do you?  Or perhaps not even the little picture either?

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 13:44 | Link to Comment Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

I think the Banks are making money on Forclosures.  They get the Insurance thru MGIC and FHA.  They then cash in on their Credit Default Swaps.  For the Banks Forclosures are a Money Maker.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 16:07 | Link to Comment skidrow
skidrow's picture

+1

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 18:50 | Link to Comment Fred Hayek
Fred Hayek's picture

Then why weren't they pursuing them with any particular energy?  If what you say is actually true then why, according to sites like Dr. Housing Bubble, is there a massive shadow inventory of homes for which no payments have been made for 60 days or more but which are not in foreclosure?

Either the banks don't know how to make money from the situation or you're wrong.  Is there another possibility?

 

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 14:32 | Link to Comment unwashedmass
unwashedmass's picture

 

yeah, dream on Janet...like Lloyd or Jamie is going to jail, much less paying back their bonuses....

right.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 15:15 | Link to Comment Milestones
Milestones's picture

No, but a bullet in the head gets more and more plausable as this thing gets exposed to some sunlight. Remember there are 11,000,000 underwater homes now and more on the horizon. That is one hellva lot of very pissed people if Mr. "O" decides to broom it under the rug.

All it takes is a few.      Milestones

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 15:42 | Link to Comment B9K9
B9K9's picture

Hence the law of return. But what they're going to find out is that regular Israelis are very much like the American middle-class. A thirty-something Israeli who has done his time in the service, and has had to deal with the same BS day-in/day-out, will not have any affection for troglodytic gnomes like Bernanke, Blankfein, et al. So I'm not sure they are going to be safe even over there.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 17:50 | Link to Comment scaleindependent
scaleindependent's picture

Correct,

What the elite really fear is innsurrrection.  French, American, Russian, German and other revolutions are fought to the death by them.

This is why America has  assigned herself as fighter of all insurrections since the late 19th century. Central America, Bolivia, Vietnam, etc.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 18:26 | Link to Comment Goldfinger
Goldfinger's picture

I am trying to catch up on my history, but from what I go so far.... They have started,financed all the revolutions  in europe... Might want to double check...

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 17:34 | Link to Comment pyite
pyite's picture

yeah, dream on Janet...like Lloyd or Jamie is going to jail, much less paying back their bonuses....

This is the wrong thing to focus on - the government needs to do what is best for the country as a whole macro-economically.  Of course, people who committed crimes deserve prison time.  But there are always people who get away with it.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 18:31 | Link to Comment macholatte
macholatte's picture

the government needs to do what is best for the country

 

for that you might need to go back to, say 1787.

 

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 21:44 | Link to Comment UncleFester
UncleFester's picture

Screw the whole and screw macro, they need to enforce the Constitution and return sovereignty back to the individuals.  That will be what is best for the 'country', because the rest will then take care of itself.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 22:27 | Link to Comment DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

"the government needs to do what is best for the country...of course, people who committed crimes deserve prison time"

how will they all fix the place from the pen?

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 13:09 | Link to Comment merehuman
merehuman's picture

in agreement with Bk and Mako, i think they have to kill us because we know too much and they are more blatant  now because they see us as already dead since their plan is in place. Geez, i hope i am wrong.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 14:32 | Link to Comment unwashedmass
unwashedmass's picture

 

yeah, dream on Janet...like Lloyd or Jamie is going to jail, much less paying back their bonuses....

right.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 15:17 | Link to Comment SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

A very small thing could shift the entire paradigm, such as a small group of americans that have had well past enough showing up and staging a big bank hostage situation, prepared to go the full distance. Would make for some very bad TV PR.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 19:40 | Link to Comment snowball777
snowball777's picture

But good TV ratings.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 10:14 | Link to Comment 11b40
11b40's picture

Nope.  Not for long, anyway.  The 5 major corps who own the news would cut off the coverage.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 13:34 | Link to Comment snowball777
snowball777's picture

Sure, the peeps who brought you Balloon Boy will show restraint...uh huh.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 22:25 | Link to Comment Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

rather late in the season for a Dog Day Afternoon. . .

"Attica! Attica! Attica!"

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 18:10 | Link to Comment Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

"Life IS stranger than fiction. . ." 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JL_IbeepTs

(hot potato)

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 07:31 | Link to Comment Dan The Man
Dan The Man's picture

Do the deadbeats get their houses back?

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 15:02 | Link to Comment Lonewar
Lonewar's picture

Hey everyone,

Anytime you are having a conversation with someone and the conversation turns to money or finance, please ask them this question,

 

"Why does a private bank control the printing of the U.S. Dollar?"

 

That is all that I would request of you.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 17:45 | Link to Comment chopper read
chopper read's picture

that icebreaker will never get you laid. 

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 08:02 | Link to Comment Diggintunnels
Diggintunnels's picture

LOL +1

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 19:17 | Link to Comment cbxer55
cbxer55's picture

I junked ya. Your putting this same exact message, word-for-word, on every thread on the board.

 

The essence of JUNK.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 14:20 | Link to Comment sushi
sushi's picture

Did the WashPo run this or just pigeonhole it?

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 14:38 | Link to Comment Azannoth
Azannoth's picture

Own Gold!

http://www.caseyresearch.com/kkcImages/1286473218-image1.gif

Gold prices would have to go up 20x to get anywhere near the historical average

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 14:29 | Link to Comment Ragnarok
Ragnarok's picture

EK: It sounds almost like you’re saying we still need to go through the end of our financial crisis.

JT: Yes, but I wouldn’t say crisis. This can be done with a resolution trust corporation, the way we cleaned up the S&Ls. The system got back on its feet faster because we grappled with the problems. The shareholders would be wiped out and the debt holders would have to take a discount on their debt and they’d get a debt-for-equity swap. Instead we poured TARP money into a pit and meanwhile the banks are paying huge bonuses to some people who should be made accountable for fraud. The financial crisis was a product of our irrational reaction, which protected crony capitalism rather than capitalism. In capitalism, the shareholders who took the risk would be wiped out and the debt holders would take a discount but banking would go on.

 

I really like this option, though we may be too far along.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 14:38 | Link to Comment traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

I was going to comment on this particular statement she made, so...

I disagree that "banking would go on". 1 quadrillion of global derivatives. EU banking system on the edge. Banks already effectively insolvent. Economy is weak. Dissatisfaction is high. This problem was created because the banks didn't do their jobs.

This will be the straw that broke the camel's back. Hundred's of billions of dollars will be lost and this will accelerate the deflationary spiral (into the hyper-inflationary abyss). 

Oh, and the biggest fraud in the history of the capital markets was either (1) Mako's point that the banks don't actually lend anything out; or (2) Congress granted a monopoly in money creation to a privately-held company. 

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 14:44 | Link to Comment Bob
Bob's picture

Seems to me that in this case both 1) and 2) are essentially true, with the current mess being its natural outcome. 

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 15:54 | Link to Comment B9K9
B9K9's picture

Like KD, Mako is finally getting his due. A few months ago people would junk him simply because they didn't understand the point he was making every time he posted up a Z1 report.

As to point #1, it doesn't matter if it's a gold back system or pure fiat. The nut is the compound nature of principal+interest. Fiat just moved the game to a whole new level of abstraction. That is, money/credit was completely disconnected from reality as a means of exercising even greater control.

As to point #2, the Fed is just a junior version of the BoE. The Dutch (ahem, power-elite) brought over their banking expertise (fractional reserve lending) developed from bankrupting Spain* to GB in 1690. They have had a marvelous, wonderfully long run.

Too bad it's all finally coming to an end.

*If anyone wants a good example of the power of exponents, how is it that the country which controlled access to the world's most extensive gold & silver resources repeatedly defaulted as a result of failing to make payments to (paper) money lenders?

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 16:42 | Link to Comment Mako
Mako's picture

Don't tell Karl any of that, I guess someone sent him what I have written and he keeps talking about convincing a judge.  I wouldn't even know why you want to convince a judge of anything.  His lack of understanding is mindblowing on this subject. 

All he has to do is read the Fed book on all this. Of course, he will go and talk to lawyers and such, oh the same lawyers that claim they have standing even though they are not a holder in due course and are in fact DEBT COLLECTORS under the statutory laws of the United States. 

And if the holder in due course does show up, which is very unlikely if not impossible in most situation, well, they are going to have to show a lose on the original contract.  Oh shit really!  Oh crap, what's that stamp on the note and what account was it put in and why?  Oh shit get me out of here.

"However that may be, a plaintiff cannot convert a claim of damages for breach of contract into an equitable claim by the facile trick of asking that the defendant be enjoined from refusing to honor its obligation to pay the plaintiff what the plaintiff is owed under the contract and appending to that request a request for payment of the amount owed. A claim for money due and owing under a contract is "quintessentially an action at law."  HYPERLINK "http://web2.westlaw.com/Find/Default.wl?DB=602&SerialNum=1996142036&Find..." \t "_top" Hudson View II Associates v. Gooden, 222 A.D.2d 163, 644 N.Y.S.2d 512, 516 (1996); see also  HYPERLINK "http://web2.westlaw.com/Find/Default.wl?DB=708&SerialNum=1977118754&Find..." \t "_top" Atlas Roofing Co. v. Occupational Safety & Health Review Comm'n, 430 U.S. 442, 459, 97 S.Ct. 1261, 51 L.Ed.2d 464 (1977).”

Wal-Mart Stores, Inc. Associates' Health and Welfare Plan v. Wells 213 F 3d 398, 401

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 22:39 | Link to Comment DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

Mako, I was talking about your posts today with a contract lawyer in my office who I think is a pretty sharp guy, we debated it around for a while until he said "Oh shit"

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 07:13 | Link to Comment Mako
Mako's picture

Humans have been using the same scheme over and over for 1000s of years.  Yes, eventually there is going to be a worldwide OH SHIT.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 17:50 | Link to Comment chopper read
chopper read's picture

hence, the stampede into gold. 

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 00:43 | Link to Comment Vernon Wormer
Vernon Wormer's picture

I am in your debt for the education. Thank you.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 03:00 | Link to Comment jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

to b9k9 re: how spain with all its gold and silver defaulted to the dutch who had almost no natural resources but diligence and enough jews/freethinkers to lend money at interest:  the most common (but not necessarily right) answer is that the spanish aristocracy was utterly averse to commerce and industry as the great commercial era was being born.  they were not traders or entrepreneurs; they were land owners and military officers whose taste for luxury outran even el dorado.  kind of like how there's a thriving business tracking lottery winners who pick annual payment so that eighteen months after the win the winners can be offered a lump sum present value of their future payments at an !8% discount rate to bail them out of debt after they bought bass boats for the entire town they live in. 

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 03:56 | Link to Comment WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

As had been brought up before, mass murder keeps the gears greased.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 13:35 | Link to Comment Snake
Snake's picture

also, the gold and silver stolen or mined with slave labor (from, among other places Potosi) ended up in the dutch and italian banks, Amsterdam, Genova, Venezia, Florence, London, etc.) to pay for the armies fighting 1. the wars of religion in the north, 2. the Ottoman empire in the east, 3. arabs and the last remnants of the moorish strongholds in the south and 4. the wars of conquest in the west.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 20:50 | Link to Comment Cammy Le Flage
Cammy Le Flage's picture

So much overlap...so many applicable statutes and extensive common law....so many possible conseqences and outcomes.  And is failure to legally perfect one's security interest a problem?  Um.  Yes.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 20:11 | Link to Comment faustian bargain
faustian bargain's picture

A few months ago people would junk him simply because they didn't understand the point he was making every time he posted up a Z1 report.

No, people would junk him simply because he was being a condescending jerk.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 23:53 | Link to Comment merehuman
merehuman's picture

i junked Mako twice for lack of empathy. (Edit=but not recently or today.)

"billions will die" was a recurring remark without any explanations of how you Mako arrived at that. I like honesty, but hate if you tell me i am fucked but not the "why of it. Still Mako and Bk9 , bringing it and ms creant are my favorite posters. you all bring a lot to this final greatest show on earth.

Thank you very much for solid answers during this curious time

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 00:40 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Look at what happened to Haiti (and is STILL going on!) after the natural disaster of an earthquake -- contrast that with a different earthquake in Chile.  Think all those folks on Food Stamps and UE are gonna get busy and pick themselves up, or are they gonna wait for "someone" to bail them out of their miserable situation?

Choice 1:  Wait around for the US Govt to provide famine relief to L.A., etc or,

Choice 2: Start fighting your neighbors for what food scraps can be found.

Either choice means death and destruction in EVERY large city in the US, and probably the World, since after the dollar collapses, every other paper currency will follow!  Paper currency, no matter how many zeroes are on it and how pretty the picture is, is still worth only $85/Ton.  Like Gold, you cannot eat it either!  The only thing holding up the current Economic system is "FAITH" in the currency, capiche?

If "empathy" is something you value, I suggest you do what you can to save the people around you for as long as you can!  I would dearly love to be an optimist at this point, but my knowledge of Mathematics and expotential functions says that optimism is not gonna carry the day for long!

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 02:48 | Link to Comment Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Yep. He would call people unfunded liabilities and talk about how hitler was a good liquidator.

I don't think he's a jerk because I sort of have done what he did. Became the monster to think like the monster. You don't really know how they think till you shut off all concern for other peoples good will. Then things start clicking.

They are welcome to have their reality and be what they have chosen to be. I can be transformed into it but it won't stick. I can't keep that way and remain that way. There's no reason to co-create with them if there is no concern for your reality and they simply force you to live in theres. Sometimes you gotta take the snake and drop him off in the woods and drive off. No matter how cold it seems. See ya at galactic center. Plenty of planets. Nothing says you have to stay miserable.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 04:06 | Link to Comment WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

A Cherokee Legend

 

Often times young boys were sent from the village in search of a vision. This was the case of one particular young native boy.

 

He started to go up to the top of a mountain in search of his vision. And as he climbed up the mountain, the air got cooler and cooler. And he came upon a snake laying in the path. The snake was shivering, and said to the boy. "Please help me. I can't move, I am so cold that I can no longer make it any further down the mountain."

 

The boy said to the snake "No way! You're a snake, if I pick you up, you'll bite me!" The snake replied. "No, no I won't, I promise I won't bite you if you'll only pick me up and help get me down the mountain."

 

So the young boy picked up the snake, put him in his shirt, and continued climbing to the top of the mountain in search of his vision. When he got back down to the bottom of the mountain, he reached in, took out the snake, and the snake bit the young boy.

 

The boy replied to the snake "Hey! You bit me, you said that if I'd help you out, that you wouldn't bite me!"

 

The snake replied "But you knew what I was when you picked me up!"

 

http://www.firstpeople.us/FP-Html-Legends/TheLittleBoyAndTheRattlesnake-Cherokee.html

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 00:23 | Link to Comment G-R-U-N-T
G-R-U-N-T's picture

Hm...Have you heard the Cherokee Legend of "two dogs fucking"?

Sun, 10/10/2010 - 12:23 | Link to Comment WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

Skip it and tell us more about Patriots.

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