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Japan Prepares To "Bury The Problem" Following News Of Uncontrolled Reactor 1 Chain Reactions

Tyler Durden's picture




 

And once again our prediction about Fukushima (namely the inevitable entombment of the entire facility in thousands of tons of concrete) is about to be realized. Bloomberg reports that Japan will consider pouring concrete into its crippled Fukushima atomic plant to reduce radiation and contain the worst nuclear disaster in 25 years. The reason for the admission of total defeat is the gradual comprehension that the worst case scenario has come to pass: "The risk to workers might be greater than previously thought because melted fuel in the No. 1 reactor building may be causing isolated, uncontrolled nuclear chain reactions, Denis Flory, nuclear safety director for the International Atomic Energy Agency, said at a press conference in Vienna." Not one to cover up the worst case outcome for a week, TEPCO only did so... for five days: "Radioactive chlorine found March 25 in the Unit 1 turbine building suggests chain reactions continued after the reactor shut down, physicist Ferenc Dalnoki-Veress of the James Martin Center for Nonproliferation Studies in Monterey, California, wrote in a March 28 paper." It's good thought"  Radioactive chlorine has a half-life of 37 minutes, according to the report." It appears Japan is willing to give up, and write off a several hundred square kilometer area, as nobody in their right mind will ever agree to move in next to a territory that, contrary to lies, er, promises, will not seep radioactivity in the soil and in the water. This is an unprecedented admission of defeat by the Japanese which unfortunately may be the only solution, which will certainly have major implications for the Japanese economy.

The now much expected spin on this last ditch effort:

Tokyo Electric mixed boron, an element that absorbs neutrons and hinders nuclear fission, with emergency cooling water to prevent accidental chain reactions, Kathryn Higley, head of nuclear engineering and radiation health physics at Oregon State University in Corvallis, said in an e-mail.

Dismantling the plant and decontaminating the site may take 30 years and cost Tokyo Electric more than 1 trillion yen ($12 billion), engineers and analysts said. The government hasn’t ruled out pouring concrete over the whole facility as one way to shut it down, Edano said at a press conference.

Dumping concrete on the plant would serve a second purpose: it would trap contaminated water, said Tony Roulstone, an atomic engineer who directs the University of Cambridge’s masters program in nuclear energy.

How anyone could think the outcome would be anything but following a brief look at the latest overflight of Fukushima is beyond us.

As for what happens after a concrete tomb, which increases the surrounding pressure by orders of magnitude, is put over what now appears is still a live fision reaction, well, we won't make any predictions. Suffice to say if historical precedent of how TEPCO has handled this situation to date is any indication, expect the sarcophagus to crack, and a 100 km "No Live Zone" radius to be extended around Fukushima in perpetuity.

 

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Wed, 03/30/2011 - 18:23 | 1119183 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Bullish for concrete producers?

And really I think we all knew it would end this way.  After the reactors started exploding got to think might be hard to save them.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 18:38 | 1119258 DeeDeeTwo
DeeDeeTwo's picture

Gonna be worse than Chenobyl... due to the casual, uncreative Japanese response. At 3 weeks the Russians had 10,000 people on site building a liquid nitrogen cooling system by tunnelling underneath the reactor, baby. Whatever the Japanese authorities are saying... just ignore.

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/7731?page=1

 

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 18:53 | 1119329 Carl Spackler-t...
Carl Spackler-the Creator of Spackler Feather Bent's picture

FYI - Everyone thinks that the sarcophagus is sealed and airtight, but that is just a misconception.  Chernobyl sarcophagus actually has large holes and openings.  The main purpose of the sarcophagus is to shield the radioactive area from rain and wind that can carry away further particles into the surrounding area.

In Chernobyl's sarcophagus birds frequently fly in and out of all the openings.  It is just like an umbrella versus a sealed container.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 19:11 | 1119394 avonaltendorf
avonaltendorf's picture

Concrete sarcophagus strikes me as absurd. The cooling pipes are in communication with turbine buildings and seaway underneath. Do they propose to pour concrete over everything? - including a couple acres of water?

Burying the reactors and SFPs guarantees more fission and explosive atmospheric contamination above ground. Impossible to bury all 4 reactors, SFPs, and turbine halls simultaneously. Argh.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 19:37 | 1119477 edwardscpa
edwardscpa's picture

Fight fire with fire and nuke it then.  All kidding aside, maybe stack a bunch of TNT in a line along the backside of the reactors and blow that shit out into the ocean.  Scatter the core and stop the chain reaction I'd imagine.  Of course you'd blow radioactive material in the air and ocean...  I'll leave it to the physicists to debate the wisdom of that.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 19:57 | 1119544 LowProfile
LowProfile's picture

I'll leave it to the physicists to debate the wisdom of that.

Trust me, that's not necessary.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 20:03 | 1119567 10kby2k
10kby2k's picture

I can't take posts about nuclear issues seriously from a 3 eyed person.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 20:35 | 1119674 Silver Alert
Silver Alert's picture

Why not? He must have experience with being irradiated and then mutating.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 23:57 | 1120243 Fish Gone Bad
Fish Gone Bad's picture

Here is an idea, get all the terminally ill people in the country (or countries), and ask them to volunteer driving heavy earth moving equipment to dismantle the damn thing.  The people will get irradiated and die, but not before they die, they will help out their country.  This is a kinder, gentler version of the Kamikaze.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 00:07 | 1120273 Matte_Black
Matte_Black's picture

A blast from the past shows its ass.

Think we could get a few other disposable demographics in there while you're at it?

There's a lot unemployed fisherman down in the gulf. What about them?

Hell... Detroit... the remains of Now Orleans.... christ... think of it.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 01:44 | 1120432 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Breaking as of 1:35 am EST, March 31.

Nuclear Engineer Arnie Gunderson has new video update out. This guy is very good at presenting the facts, and then gives his theories as to what's happening, why, and what the possible and likely outcomes might be.

  • 200 tons of water are being ported to and 200 tons of very concentrated nuclear contamination are being emitted from Fukushima every DAY.
  • He says it's known as "feed & bleed."
  • He says nuclear engineers have never planned for an event like this. He said a month ago, 1% core loss was planned for - this is 70%.
  • He said nuclear engineers never anticipated a "fuel pool burning," and a major study done by a reputable scientist proves that a fuel pool burning results in 137,000 casualties from lung cancer.
  • He says 200 million beq of nuclear matter have been found in each 3' x 3' section of soil up to 25 miles from Fukushima. This is much higher than Chernobyl.

Very grim.

A must see (top video, March 31st):

http://www.fairewinds.com/multimedia

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 01:48 | 1120448 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

I watched your video.  It is NOT 200 MILLION Becquerels.   At 2:14 in the video he cites 2,000,000 Becquerels / M^2

Everything else is dead on and 2M Bec is more than enough to force evacuations.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 01:57 | 1120461 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Sorry about that. I was typing it while watching the video in another window.

What about the "burning spent fuel pool?"

Am I right to say this is looking worse than Chernobyl based on what he remarked upon?

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 06:28 | 1120636 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

heres a question for our nuclear expert stafff....

with 40-100 picocuries /liter measured in the rain in pennsylvania, how long before it rains enuf i shouldnt use my swimming pool?

80 days til I-131 decays out of the water

how long do we avoid our swimming pools?

months,years,decades? more than I-131 floating around out there

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 16:43 | 1122823 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

One it's too cold in Pa to swim so you're safe there.  

Two, worry about the Cs-137 amounts.   When you get some good measurements on those then we'll be albe to start calculations. :)

 

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 01:51 | 1120454 Matte_Black
Matte_Black's picture

damn. godamn.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 16:44 | 1122820 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

 

 

t.y., TIS!  also on utoob, now.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 00:30 | 1120310 cbxer55
cbxer55's picture

Its not an eye, its an entry wound!  ;-)

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 01:04 | 1120382 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

bingo

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 21:40 | 1119855 MSimon
MSimon's picture

 

LULZ

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 22:22 | 1120010 DeeDeeTwo
DeeDeeTwo's picture

The Japanese can build you an IPod... but the Russians can do heavy lifting.

Here is more on their Chernobyl reposnse: "A plan was devised: to freeze the earth around the reactor with liquid nitrogen, and then build a heat exchanger in the ground beneath it to cool the core and prevent meltdown. To freeze the ground, all the liquid nitrogen in the western Soviet Union was sent to Chernobyl: when it didn't arrive quickly enough, director Brukhanov received a late-night telephone call from the minister in charge of the operation. 'Find the nitrogen,' he was told, 'or you'll be shot.'".

Maybe shooting a TEPCO manager or two would spark an idea better than hosing it down with water, baby.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/mar/26/nuclear.russia

 

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 00:02 | 1120258 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

I'm no geologist, but take note of the fixed camera position relative to the Fukushima Power Plant before and after quake ... between :25 and, well the rest of the video.

These images imply a major geological deformation (sinking) of the area around Fukushima.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FobcdNqlcVw

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 00:48 | 1120351 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Rusty,

I have not taken the time to post something to you, but I have been blown away by some of the stuff you are finding and leaving for us in other threads. The stuff with the water coming up during the quake, OMFG. Good finds, good catch. That prefecture does look screwed, BAAAAD.

This one too seems to be a very solid record of things as they were.

Thanks for posting.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 01:05 | 1120377 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

Thank you MsCreant

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 01:07 | 1120387 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Yeah, that video of the water in that Japanese Park during the quake, coming up from the shifting earth...great stuff.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 01:41 | 1120438 Rusty Shorts
Thu, 03/31/2011 - 01:04 | 1120383 gmj
gmj's picture

Maybe the camera moved or rotated.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 01:13 | 1120391 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

Maybe terra firma moved or rotated.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 01:54 | 1120456 Matte_Black
Matte_Black's picture

Yes, Rusty. They wouldn't have moved the camera for lots of reasons.

I think you are right.

Good post.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 02:32 | 1120505 defender
defender's picture

Thanks, Rusty.  I can't remember where I saw it, but there was an article that said that side of the island dropped by over a foot from the earthquake. 

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 13:59 | 1122179 MrSteve
MrSteve's picture

NOVA / PBS reported parts of the Japanese coast sank  1 meter/3 feet.

full report at:

http://video.pbs.org/video/1863101157/

 

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 08:59 | 1120924 moneymutt
moneymutt's picture

so someone said plant was on bedrock, it looks to me the sea walls sunk in relation to plant, were they on material that compressed/settled? And what geology is camer mountedon compared to plant that they should move differently. Unless some sort of fault right between plant and camera, any difference in elevation between tw I would attribute to differential settlement, on are on solid rock that did not move, another area on wet sand that did sink/liquify etc. 

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 02:28 | 1120493 Hicham
Hicham's picture

but they didn't even end up using that liquid nitrogen did they?

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 20:08 | 1119570 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

just put it all in some old space shuttles and shoot it to mercury..  just hope they dont explode in the sky..  that never happens

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 20:07 | 1119571 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

Yes, the site is, to say the least, difficult, and the aftershocks show that the whole damn thing is destined to fall into the ocean and eventually be subducted.  It's just the next few centuries that may be a problem.  The sheer volume of the spent fuel rods will fuck them over. 

They need a large crane, preferably remote controlled and the balls to load this shit on barges and sink it, or maybe not.  We at least need some original thinking and a few sane options.  Burial just increases the rubble pile. 

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 20:08 | 1119581 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

drop it into Mt Fuji

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 20:39 | 1119624 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

<deleted>

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 20:46 | 1119705 wisefool
wisefool's picture

the navy has rail gun technology. Put in a plan to contain this thing for 20 years. During that time build another nuke plant and a rail gun designed to throw this stuff into the sun. One lead capsule at a time, gathered, loaded and fired by a bunch of wall-e's. Who load themselves into the gun as they they are damaged/EOL. Pull every hard science PhD currently writing HFT aglo's, reits, CDOs, MBS, etc to do it.

Then deliver a Saturn V to the location. Hook a chain to the rail gun and throw it into the sun too.

I am <50% sarc> with this. it will take several generations to clean this up, so lots of options are actually on the table. 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WALL-E

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 21:21 | 1119794 Bad Asset
Bad Asset's picture

yep, rail guns, lead capsules, and robots ... in the mean time they can't keep the water pumps operational.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 21:29 | 1119821 wisefool
wisefool's picture

I know we need immeadiate containment/control but somebody needs to get the big picture 100 year time frame going or there is no point at all, for anyone one on the planet. Whether it is this reactor or the next one to go tits up. Take all those global warming grant writing scientists and put them on this. Same tech would be used to clean up chernobyl.

And if we do it right we could use the launches as a mass driver to alter our orbit enough to dodge some of the near earth objects that we KNOW are going to be too close for comfort over the next 100 years.

 

Henry Ford would say (para) "No problem is all that difficult when you break it up into manageble tasks"

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 22:25 | 1120015 Bad Asset
Bad Asset's picture

We probably should just invest everything we have in geothermal, it's slightly safer.  In 100 years I'm sure Monsanto will have developed a bacteria that eats radioactive material.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 00:29 | 1120312 RichardP
RichardP's picture

 

Radiation can't be broken up into manageable tasks when it kills you if you get too close.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 19:11 | 1119396 Drag Racer
Drag Racer's picture

I've heard the same.

 

Fukushima radioactive fallout nears Chernobyl levels

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20285-fukushima-radioactive-fallou...

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 19:33 | 1119463 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

The main purpose of the sarcophagus is to shield the radioactive area from rain and wind that can carry away further particles into the surrounding area.

The Battle for Chernobyl shows water coming in the sarcophagus from rather large openings.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 20:32 | 1119662 Antarctico
Antarctico's picture

Here is a fairly freaky video of the Chernobyl sarcophagus undergoing maintenance work in 2006 with guys in white plastic suits and oxygen tanks crawling all over the inside of the damn thing.  This is not a solid structure.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 23:00 | 1120099 whatsinaname
whatsinaname's picture

Death by trial and error !! Is that what they want to do ?

Meanwhile, it seems the Chernobyl sarcophagus is also falling apart but Ukraine & belarus have no money to fix it !!

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 19:49 | 1119519 Bob Dobbs
Bob Dobbs's picture

The Soviets did not use the liquid N cooling system.  The temperature suddenly dropped off (the fuel combined with the sand in the walls) as the lava poued into the various spaces.  Instead they filled the void with concrete.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 20:20 | 1119619 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Nice avatar.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 23:13 | 1120130 nkktwotwozero
nkktwotwozero's picture

> Instead they filled the void with concrete.

What void cant concrete fill?

The one in my heart?

--

Brought to you by Carl's Junior!

 

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 01:19 | 1120399 PenGun
PenGun's picture

 The Church of the Subgenius is not amused.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 04:29 | 1120569 Bob Dobbs
Bob Dobbs's picture

Amused by default.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 07:44 | 1120715 spanish inquisition
spanish inquisition's picture

cut em some slack

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 20:08 | 1119577 Antarctico
Antarctico's picture

Several hundred miners from Toula, 1,000 km distant from Chernobyl, hand dug a 150 meter tunnel to directly under the destroyed number four reactor.  At the end of the tunnel they dug, again by hand, a 30 meter long by 30 meter wide by 2 meter high chamber that was supposed to house the liquid nitrogen cooling system you are referring to.  The complex liquid nitrogen cooling system was ultimately not used and the underground chamber was filled with...concrete.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 21:45 | 1119874 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

DeeDeeTwo

If I understand this correctly reactors one two and three are now in meltdown. Each article over the last few days stated a different reactor.

 

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 01:45 | 1120427 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

dp

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 05:35 | 1120612 sangell
sangell's picture

Japan Times story this morning that there maybe 1000 bodies in the irradiated zone not just the one the Maiinichi Shimbun reported yesterday.

Most were probably killed by the tsunami but it will be impossible to know as they are all dangerously radioactive now and autopsies too risky. Worse they can't cremate them either and burial would create a nuclear waste site!

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 19:01 | 1119348 puckles
puckles's picture

I have been attempting to fix this ever since I posted it, but it appears immune to any fixes.  I should have posted the original article in the Japan Times, which is referenced at the end of the article.  Sorry for this.  Just skip to the end, and I'll make a contribution to offset the idiotic bandwidth.  Sometimes highlighting and pasting just doesn't deliver what one expects it to do...

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 19:04 | 1119362 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

thx

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 21:03 | 1119402 avonaltendorf
avonaltendorf's picture

Tyler, thank you!

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 19:15 | 1119406 wisefool
wisefool's picture

I know you probably want to keep the hyperlinks, but you can cut and paste stuff like this into a text only editor like notepad and then paste into the comment box to drop the formatting stuff.

 

then put a single link to the original document on the web where the original links will be preserved.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 19:50 | 1119510 Antarctico
Antarctico's picture

you can cut and paste stuff like this into a text only editor like notepad

You can also simply disable rich-text from the bottom of the comments window. Disabling rich-text also allows you to directly edit and insert html in your comments so you can do things like embed links. Lastly, there is a preview button below the comments window for a reason.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 00:23 | 1120293 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

What about embedding images?

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 00:53 | 1120359 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Contributors only.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 01:07 | 1120388 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Very well.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 05:28 | 1120608 ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

The have to do that to keep people from clogging up the page with cherry picked graphs and tittie pics.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 07:45 | 1120714 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

The have to do that to keep people from clogging up the page with cherry picked graphs and tittie pics.

 

Best quote of the day. So true.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 19:15 | 1119411 sangell
sangell's picture

And put your posts at the END of the thread where they belong!

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 19:55 | 1119533 wisefool
wisefool's picture

If that is the worst thing you do here, you probably don't belong here ;-) Welcome, and don't sweat it.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 19:23 | 1119370 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

"When I asked the reporters why they had come so far from Tokyo to hear an American geoscientist, I was told it was because no foreigner had ever come to tell them how dangerous Japan's nuclear power plants are."

And there you have it in spades. Of course Trav says TD and ZH are lying about all of this and spreading hysteria.  

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 22:49 | 1120077 trav7777
trav7777's picture

hysteria, inarguably...lying?  when you attribute something to someone that you know that they did not say, we call that a lie.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 00:08 | 1120271 Meat Popsicle
Meat Popsicle's picture

Jeezus Trav7777, were you born a douchewad? Can you truly be so ignorant of your own hypocrisy? 

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 02:30 | 1120504 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

When starting to get interested in mushroom collection, I had to admit that most mushrooms do not correspond exactly with the picture I had under the eyes. But a few of them were. That is what is called a fine specimen that exhibit the most characterizing features.

For this poster, it is the same: he is a fine specimen of the US citizens.

Duplicity is high and everything is the fault of others, sequence repeated no matter what he is lying at his feet.

Even US citizens should learn that among them, some embody better the US american spirit and bear with it.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 19:18 | 1119419 Fistfull of wor...
Fistfull of worthlessDollars's picture

Pretty sure anyone paying attention did.  Unfortunately, that number is relatively low.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 21:40 | 1119782 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Breaking:

GTFO out of that entire area, citizens of Japan.

cesium 137

Cesium 137 Isotope Found 25 Miles From Japanese Plant By MATTHEW L. WALD and DAVID JOLLY 17 minutes ago

Detection of a long-lasting radioactive element 25 miles from the crippled nuclear plant raised questions about whether the evacuation zone should be expanded...

The isotope, cesium 137, was measured in one village at a level more than double the standard that the Soviet Union used as a gauge to recommend abandoning land surrounding the Chernobyl reactor, the International Atomic Energy Agency said Wednesday. Cesium has been linked to increased cancer risks....

Japan, experts noted, is far more densely settled than the Chernobyl region of Ukraine, where a reactor explosion in 1986 contaminated large areas.

The international team, using a measure of radioactivity called the becquerel, found as much as 3.7 million becquerels per square meter; the standard used at Chernobyl was 1.48 million.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 22:51 | 1120080 trav7777
trav7777's picture

data like this is what is useful in assessing the scope of the disaster

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 02:04 | 1120264 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture
-
Thu, 03/31/2011 - 01:32 | 1120423 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

At 3.7 MegaBecquerels of CS-137 at a 1cm distance the gamma dosage is 2.82 mSv/hr OR roughly 1 Sievert in 2 weeks OR about 100 rem over the course of two weeks.  Same distances and decay rates yields 74 rads/hour of BETA radiation as well.  

They better get the fuck out of there.

Beta Calculator : http://www.radprocalculator.com/Beta.aspx

Gamma Calculator: http://www.radprocalculator.com/Gamma.aspx

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 21:25 | 1119809 I think I need ...
I think I need to buy a gun's picture

we need about 2 more of these and the planet will be gone....this is beyond serious

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 21:56 | 1119912 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Uhhh...no.  We had dozens of times this in the 50's when we tested nukes above ground.  

The significance of this is that it is 200km from the largest city on the planet in one of the two countries left on Earth that are still buying treasuries.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 00:55 | 1120364 Zardinuk
Zardinuk's picture

There is far more fuel in these reactors than in the bombs. These reactors have 35 years worth of fuel, I read a figure online of the cesium is 270x hiroshima, just 1 year of fuel in the core, not counting the spent fuel pools. It's really the density of the radiation that is the problem, it's like all the nuclear bombs ever tested sitting on a couple acres.

 

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 21:58 | 1119919 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

***IAEA: “Uncontrolled nuclear chain reactions” may be coming from melted fuel in No. 1 reactor

March 30th, 2011

 

Japan Weighs Entombing Nuclear Plant in Bid to Halt Radiation

Bloomberg, March 30, 2011 :

Japan will consider pouring concrete into its crippled Fukushima atomic plant to reduce radiation and contain the worst nuclear disaster in 25 years. …

The risk to workers might be greater than previously thought because melted fuel in the No. 1 reactor building may be causing isolated, uncontrolled nuclear chain reactions, Denis Flory, nuclear safety director for the International Atomic Energy Agency, said at a press conference in Vienna.

Radioactive chlorine found March 25 in the Unit 1 turbine building suggests chain reactions continued after the reactor shut down, physicist Ferenc Dalnoki-Veress of the James Martin Center for Nonproliferation Studies in Monterey, California, wrote in a March 28 paper.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 22:53 | 1120085 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

What good will it do to encase anything in concrete when it is on a fault line? The whole damn plant is made of concrete and how long did it last, 30 years? What makes you think they can entomb the radioactive waste for thousands of years?

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 21:38 | 1119846 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

How do you say " Get out of here Stalker" in Japanese?

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 22:29 | 1120024 Id fight Gandhi
Id fight Gandhi's picture

Kyoto alert, as of 1016et

radiation levels now 4,385 times legal limit up about 1,000 since the other day.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 00:39 | 1120335 reader2010
reader2010's picture

That's super bullish for stock markets. 

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 22:45 | 1120068 1fortheroad
1fortheroad's picture

Sayonara Japan.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 09:03 | 1120943 writingsonthewall
writingsonthewall's picture

What commission do zerohedge 'consultants' get for suggesting concrete encasement in week 1?

What a total waste of time - and where are these 'experts' who say "this cannot be another Chernobyl'? mmmmmmmmmmm?

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 18:25 | 1119184 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

This is not bullish, at all.

This is going to be an economic catastrophe for the ages.

Everyone keeps saying this is great for reconstruction, etc.

The Yen is going to be shredded as Japan tries to print itself back into some semblance of normalcy.

The water, drinking and otherwise, is going to be a massive issue, alone.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 18:27 | 1119201 ghostfaceinvestah
ghostfaceinvestah's picture

Agreed, this is an absolute tragedy that will attempt to be papered over with Yen printing.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 18:34 | 1119243 bigdumbnugly
bigdumbnugly's picture

as all tragedies, inconveniences, and untold numbers of bad policies are handled these days.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 07:36 | 1120698 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

Yes, because banksters and financial markets are the only things that matter anymore.  Keep those markets going higher so banksters keep making bonuses.

Only way to do that when the real world is crumbling around them is print currency and dump it into those markets ...and into bankster's pockets of course.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 18:36 | 1119248 SilverDOG
SilverDOG's picture

The financial camel back of the world is already broken. This straw is about to rip the camel in half. 

 

"Party on Wayne"  "Party on Garth"

"Party on Bitchez"

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 18:39 | 1119261 uno2well
uno2well's picture

It's no use trying to tell them to get out. I tried to tell a relative's Japanese wife that the government was covering this up and that her family should GTFO back on the 19th. Her response was that they don't want to leave all their friends and family over there.

The Japanese people need to be told what to do by someone in a position of power, who is also of Japanese descent. They will not listen to Gaijin even if it means they will die from this. They would rather die in Japan than in a foreign country. I wished them well... what more can you do?

I really don't see a slab of concrete containing this monster; it's going to crack almost as soon as it dries. This is not going to end well for humanity, let alone the people of Japan. 

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 22:17 | 1119992 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Had the saem experience with my Japanese business partner. He was here (In India) when it happened. Parents in Tokyo. He sais they will nto move and then spoke of a quick rebound because things were not that bad and they would fight it.

You cannot fight this. In fact you cannot fight anything of thsi scale.

Lateral thinking is lost to the world of engineers. Thus the Concrete it non-solution. As folks pointed out above, look at Chernobyl, 25+  years on, still impacting, leaking, spewing.

The age of what looked like cheap energy is over. An attempt will be made in thsi dying last gasp of the "elite" to shove more expensive volts and dumb wind-mills down our collective thhroats.

Good luck with that and good luck to everyone. We are all going to need it.

ORI

http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 23:21 | 1120155 old naughty
old naughty's picture

ORI,

After reading WB7's "casatration" piece yesterday, this symbolic gesture by the Japan Emperor and Queen may have said more that it was bad.

Perhaps the son is more approachable, but admission of defeat is now in plain sight...de jevu 66 years later!

http://hk.apple.nextmedia.com//images/apple-photos/apple/20110331/small/31wh211p.jpg

A lesson for all? Indeed, good luck to us all, we all need it.

Thanks ZH, for sharing great info.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 19:00 | 1119350 Flounder
Flounder's picture

AUD/JPY is currently jumping.  That has been bullish.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 21:43 | 1119865 tom a taxpayer
tom a taxpayer's picture

 

Expanding the evacuation zone from 20 km to 40 km, which is  a doubling of the radius, results in four times the area of the 20 km evacuation zone!

 

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 18:22 | 1119188 SparkyvonBellagio
SparkyvonBellagio's picture

Was there ever a doubt? ZH called it Spot On 1st!

All Hail Z, All Hail Z !!!!!!!!

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 18:22 | 1119190 bingaling
bingaling's picture

Where is New Tokyo going to be built ?

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 18:27 | 1119206 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Tripoli.

Telling you, kill two birds with one stone.  Have Japan take over Libya rename it and move in.  Get the Keynesian GDP boost of rebuilding all those factories in North Africa.  Boosts the continents GDP, solves Japans oil needs it's a total winner.  And gets another US puppet...err ally in the region.  Now the locals may not be happy, but come on.  We are the West we don't respect property rights unless you can fend our armies off.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 18:45 | 1119300 Drag Racer
Drag Racer's picture

no no no, they already built it in China.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 19:05 | 1119365 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Yeah...you do know Japan and China sorta have a history right?  Just going to toss that out, turns out the Chinese are still a little sore over the Rape of Nanking.  Thinking a relocation there might involve a fight, neither of which would want.

On the other hand no one in the West cares if brown people are killed so no one would raise a hue and cry about a purging of Libya.  Hell spin a line about Japan bringing bibles into Libya and the red idiots will fall over themselves orgasmic in their support.  Say they will respect women's rights and the blues will not their approval.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 22:21 | 1119996 pods
pods's picture

The more I remember about the Japanese, the more I see this as a fitting retribution.  From Nanking, to the Phillipines.

Sometimes karma is a bitch.

pods

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 22:54 | 1120084 trav7777
trav7777's picture

fuck off.

Most of the affected people had NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with Nanking or the Philippines

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 10:24 | 1121218 pods
pods's picture

Correct.  Most people have a cross to bear, myself included.  Seems whenever people get organized to a certain degree, the individual ceases, and the group can do terrible things.

That is why I said karma.

pods

 

 

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 00:17 | 1120291 Matte_Black
Matte_Black's picture

Excuse me, but what in the fucking fuck are people like you thinking?

Nobody alive today was there when these events happened.

Should we all be condemned for the actions of our ancestors?

Go fuck yourself, sir.

 

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 02:47 | 1120517 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

That is what Karma is.

 

But as a side note, here's a question: people in the US (and some other places) laudated the founding generations of US citizens for their 'hard work', 'ethics' and all that turned the US in that fine place and consider themselves as heirs to the magnificent work accomplished so far (very often to exhibit how some specific populations are going to screw it all)

Now how is it possible to refer to the past and accept the perceived good things as an inheritance while leaving aside the perceived bad things?

People admit they benefit from the 'good' actions of their ancestors, yet do not want to foot the bill for the 'past' actions. Very US citizen indeed but how is it?

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 02:47 | 1120518 1984
1984's picture

In stark contrast to Germany, they as a country, and individually, NEVER admitted to the unspeakable atrocities they committed during WII. 

Their emporor continue to worship and glorify the war criminals at the Yasukuni shrine in downtown Tokyo every year. 

The old crew and direct descendants still continue to run and rule over their industries and corporations. 

And they whitewash their text books of their atrocities so their kids never learn: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_history_textbook_controversies

These are present day deeds of the criminals that never atoned for their crimes.

Why do you think people all over asia, other than greedy governments, are still seething in anger?! 

 

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 03:25 | 1120544 Matte_Black
Matte_Black's picture

Do either of you give a fuck about extraordinary renditions that the US is running into Gitmo and Basra?

Sorry. No play. You are imbeciles.

All nations ar guilty. Don't give us that karma or just retribution bullshit. It's bullshit.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 04:15 | 1120562 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

All nations are guilty? Really? If they are not guilty, that's because they do not matter. US citizen logics.

 

I dont care that much about Gitmo and all the secret prisons. I acknowledge the events as typically US citizen like.

Name calling people does not really answer to my previous question about the inheritance of the past.

And people do not let the Japanese get all the spotlight. The Japanese denial was enabled by the extraordinary behaviour of the US on the case, that cleared the board in exchange of the biological data the Japanese mined during WW2.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 05:16 | 1120595 d_senti
d_senti's picture

People inherit the consequences of their ancestors' actions, not their moral culpability. In the US, we inherited a great deal, based moreso on circumstance (location and natural resources, namely oil) than on our "hard work ethic." Nevertheless we are the recipients of that. It's not good or evil; it's just how it is.

Saying that the Japanese deserve to have their country destroyed by natural disasters and nuclear catastrophe is beyond idiotic. If, say, the people of Nanking had bombed Japan, you might be able to say it was "fitting" in some vague sense, but it is inherently ridiculous to hold someone morally accountable for something they never did.

So I second the hearty f-bombs tossed your way, and suggest that you choke on a penis.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 06:03 | 1120623 d_senti
d_senti's picture

Just heard on NHK that they've detected levels about 1200 times (can't remember exact number) above the legal limit of iodine in the sea 1.7km from the plant. That's not very rapid dispersion, it seems.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 07:53 | 1120728 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

People inherit the consequences of their ancestors' actions, not their moral culpability.

 

Which defines temporary morality then.

After long as the originator of a doing is dead, there is no morality attached to accepting the consequences of the doing.

In other words, someone steals, delays the issue until his death and it is over. At this point, anyone is free from benefiting from the actions with no morality issue as morality is temporal.

Exactly the type of game the US is playing. Which is very funny as the US kind of proclaims to have developped an untemporal morality set, connected to human nature, which is eternal.

 

And the US inherited mostly what they stole from others.

Never said that the Japanese deserved this or that. Simply stated that Karma was that, pay back for actions in a previous life.

I only questioned the selective attitude of people towards their inheritance.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 18:05 | 1123101 d_senti
d_senti's picture

You're obviously unreasonable and looking for any way you can to whine about US citizens and how evil we are. Every nation has its faults, but if anyone here is being bigoted, it's you. You are ascribing negative qualities to 310 million people based on your personal experiences with a very small subset of that group.

Guess what? Every nation has inherited much of what they don't deserve. If you want to take that route, you can blame every nation in history, and say "karma" ought to punish all of them as well. But your own karmic beliefs are irrational too, because you're not even following your own rules. Karma punishes or rewards people for what they did in a previous life, right? So does that mean, when people are reincarnated, they're only reincarnated as the same nationality? I guess so, if you want to punish the Japanese today for what Japanese people did over a half century ago.

How do you know that the modern Japanese people, at least some of them, aren't reincarnations of the victims of Nanking? Or people who suffered in the Holocaust? Or the Armenian genocide? Hm?

The truth is you just want an excuse to berate people from the US, and apparently the Japanese as well. So I'm done with you.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 05:01 | 1120588 Vlad Tepid
Vlad Tepid's picture

You are such a dipshit. Where to start?

Have you ever ASKED a Japanese citizen about the atrocities and had them deny them to your face?

Yasukuni Shrine has not been visited by a Japanese emperor since WWII.  I beleive even Google could have told you that. Yasukuni is Japan's equivalent of Arlington and was build long before they became famous for war crimes.  You don't like war criminals?  Track down Curtis LeMay's bones and spit on them then why don't ya?  Robert McNamara even called LeMay a war criminal.

You don't think US history books are whitewashed?  Step 1:  Become literate. Step 2: Go into a high school classroom.  Step 3: Crack open a US history book and see how wrong you are.

People all over Asia?  The Vietnamese have gotten over it. They are more pissed at us.  The Indoesians are STILL grateful for Japan wiping out the Dutch.  THe Philippines has moved on.  Taiwan never had much of a problem to begin with.  Maybe you're refering to the perennially feverish DPRK or PRC spokes-organs.

And now you've wasted 3 minutes of my day, you idiot.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 07:57 | 1120738 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

The US duplicity is well known. Us citizens have deep troubles picturing themselves as they are.

This reminded, how does it explain the behaviour of the Japaneses towards their war crimes? Looking for worse is made easy as the US exists but still Japanese could behave.

 

As to Japanese denying the war crimes, just check the Internet, the Youtube channel or so to find your content. You can grow quite popular to Japanese if you turn into an apologist for their war crimes. They will even translate your video comments in Japanese to get to  a Japanese audience.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 10:25 | 1121228 pods
pods's picture

To a certain degree, we all are condemed for the actions of our ancestors.

And what do you care what I think?  

Seems you may have the wrong avatar there joker.

pods

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 04:10 | 1120561 Ethics Gradient
Ethics Gradient's picture

Whilst intelligence can be partially defined as being able to recognise the interconnectedness of events, you're rather barking up the wrong tree here - and doing so in a way that shows up some obviously unattainable aspirations on your part.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 07:50 | 1120722 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

Evil you wish on others comes on you.

Yep, karma's a bitch alright.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 18:48 | 1119308 Kickaha
Kickaha's picture

Better yet, just give them the land around Jerusalem.  Why not, its been given away before, and not too long ago.  None of the locals there would really have any grounds for legitimate complaint.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 21:57 | 1119917 mkkby
mkkby's picture

Putting Israel in Arab territory went so well.  But I do applaud how you enjoy life with all your heavy drinking and pot smoking.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 22:25 | 1120013 Zon
Zon's picture

No need to do that, Tokyo is far from Fukushima. Look I know the Japanese government is lying about a lot of stuff, but many comments on here are saying things like tokyo is a ghost town and wrongly claim that the major earthquake hit tokyo(well technically it did, but little damage and no people died). tokyo is fine and well, only people panicking are the foreigners. Yes fukushima-ken is likely going to be a ghost prefecture, but tokyo will stand.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 00:59 | 1120371 Zardinuk
Zardinuk's picture

Assuming this thing doesnt' get any worse, right? Well, we're speculators here, if this were a startup I'd bet on at least a 10x valuation in a years time. That's 10x the radiation, just speculating, that'll have a pretty dramatic effect on Tokyo which is already telling babies not to drink the water.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 01:13 | 1120392 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

If they found Cesium 137 in significant quantity 25 miles from Fukushima, Tokyo just got a whole lot closer, and that's not considering the ground water, aquifers, rain, wind, or God know's what else has been strewn all about, let alone what's going to continue to belch from this heaping, molten pile of nuclear material.

I would NOT want to be in Japan, let alone Tokyo, now or anywhere in the future.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 01:21 | 1120406 trav7777
trav7777's picture

if they have a cesium problem, they need to start scraping soil now...that shit will sink over time

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 18:23 | 1119195 DoctoRx
DoctoRx's picture

Kudos to ZH for its prescient coverage of this tragedy.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 18:42 | 1119273 luster
luster's picture

Prescient?  How about only?

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 18:26 | 1119197 ghostfaceinvestah
ghostfaceinvestah's picture

I sense a massive money printing effort coming soon.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 18:24 | 1119198 Dimeboy
Dimeboy's picture

Concrete cover-up, bitchez!

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 18:25 | 1119203 davidgn
davidgn's picture

Don't you mean "fission reaction"?

 

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 18:33 | 1119233 thatthingcanfly
thatthingcanfly's picture

Nods to David.

"Fission" is correct.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 18:25 | 1119205 sangell
sangell's picture

From Mainichi Shimbun.

"

The body of an adult man was found on March 27 in Okuma, Fukushima Prefecture, about 5-6 kilometers from the nuclear power plant crippled by the March 11 earthquake and ensuing tsunami. Police officers, clad in protective suits, measured the radiation level of the surface of the body and thought the level was so high that it would be dangerous to carry it. They also feared that the radiation could spread. They put the body in a bag and left it in a building nearby."

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 18:37 | 1119252 sabra1
sabra1's picture

are you sure it wasn't blowfish?

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 18:37 | 1119253 umop episdn
umop episdn's picture

Why, oh why, is it:

During this tragedy of epic glow-in-the-dark fail, when I read something like this, why do I instantly think: The Zombie Apocalypse Begins This Way. I guess it's either laugh or cry, or both.

Mutant crying zombies with subzero hedges. bitchez.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 19:07 | 1119375 PY-129-20
PY-129-20's picture

Yeah, but these mutant zombies will never get my silver! Never! My precious!

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 20:17 | 1119616 Antarctico
Antarctico's picture

I am sure Max Brooks is already working on a Fukushima updated edition of The Zombie Survival Guide.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 18:27 | 1119207 Josh Randall
Josh Randall's picture

This would have been a good idea weeks ago -- now it's a clusterflock of seagulls

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 19:03 | 1119324 Plumplechook
Plumplechook's picture

Clusterflock of Seagulls.

One of my favourite 80s bands.  Had a big hit with the appropriately titled 'I Ran (I ran so far awaaaay....)':

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUjIA3Rt7gk

 

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 19:02 | 1119363 serotonindumptruck
serotonindumptruck's picture

I had the incident filed under the "colossal goatfuck" category a couple of weeks ago.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 22:04 | 1119949 Pchelar
Pchelar's picture

I used "monkey fucking a football" myself.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 04:27 | 1120568 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

I prefer the PC term, Primates Porking Pigskin.  Cleans it up for the sensitive types.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 21:58 | 1119922 mkkby
mkkby's picture

Hey, no seagulls.  That's my job.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 18:29 | 1119216 reader2010
reader2010's picture

The Japs will do another PR show here. I don't trust them. 

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 18:30 | 1119226 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

Let's see what the sunshine boys have to say now. MELTDOWN;o

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 18:31 | 1119228 Sweet Chicken
Sweet Chicken's picture

She's gone from suck to blow.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWNJZrdn7i4

 

 

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 18:33 | 1119238 Robslob
Robslob's picture

Cemex...buy buy buy!

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 18:35 | 1119244 A Man without Q...
A Man without Qualities's picture

The terrifying thing is they still don't know exactly why the chain reaction stopped at Chernobyl.  I don't think there is any degree of certainty that encasing in concrete is going to work.

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 18:48 | 1119309 Drag Racer
Drag Racer's picture

was it due to the core being blown all over the place? separate the stuff and the chain is broken...

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 19:12 | 1119399 Screwloose
Screwloose's picture

Concrete isn't even a plausible option - however tempting the "bury it and run away" solution might appear. 

It only [half] worked for Chernobyl because the accident had self-stabilized and literally "frozen" - here the cooling efforts must be maintained, or it gets many times worse... fast!

There are thousands of tons of fuel on that site, much of which is now unrecoverable; evacuate, stop the cooling efforts and it would all eventually end up burning in the ground - and the groundwater that close to the shore will be tidal.

I said two weeks ago that reactor 2's parameters showed that it had melted down and was holed at it's base - something that TEPCO have only recently got around to admitting.  [Only reported on ZH...]

I still believe that the fuel pond in building 4 went critical on the night of the 15/16th and its 1331 fuel assemblies are now somewhere below that building in the ground.  TEPCO claimed that "Lubricating oil spontaneously combusted.." and caused the whole building to melt.  [Yeah; right... Where's the soot?]

A dome to contain airborne emissions makes sense - if it's even physically possible - as they will be trapped there for years, fighting to contain an ongoing fiasco of their own making, until the fuel gradually loses its potency.

 

Wed, 03/30/2011 - 20:21 | 1119631 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

Good point about the groundwater.  That could be the source of some of the inconsistent readings, and of course, the monsoon season is coming.  

 

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