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Japanese Officials Say Nuclear Fuel Rods Likely Melting In All Three "Troubled" Japanese Reactors
It just got worse. From AP:
Japanese officials say the nuclear fuel rods appear to be melting inside all three of the most troubled nuclear reactors.
Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said Monday: "Although we cannot directly check it, it's highly likely happening."
Some experts would consider that a partial meltdown of the reactor. Others, though, reserve that term for times when nuclear fuel melts through a reactor's innermost chamber but not through the outer containment shell.
We can only hope that the team that did not test for an 8+ magnitude earthquake did a better job at fortifying the containment shell which is the only thing separating radiation from the outer world.
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Looks like it's curving towards Mexico ...
Have a look at this http://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/comment.html?entrynum=1763
Now the question is obviously is it just a "what if" scenario ?
WOW! Good eye.
I'm gonna stay in denial and hope that image depicts a track for Mothra over the next three days.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxONUcRuUsE
Someone let Harry know. He's trying to convince people to add AAPL to their portfolios now.
http://www.marketwatch.com/community/hwagner
Just bulldoze it into the sea.
What could go wrong???
/ sarc off
Go long tentacle futures.
Cthulhu?
That about wraps it up for nuke power in the industrialized world.
You sound as if you think the choice is a matter of personal preference, or whimsy. Like "Paper or Plastic?". As there isn't enough spare electrical capacity in our system once you shut down nukes, the choice really boils down to: "Lights Heat and Power, or Striking Flint in the darkened garage in an attempt to eat cooked food tonight?"
Lot of emotional desire to ditch an industry right now, with absolutely no sense of the implications of doing so. Humans.
I'll bet Imelt just a tad torqued this morning. Some of his GE workers that were in Japan working on a *new* plant are now on their way back to the U.S. Not gonna help the P & L statement for GE, and will prolly cut into Imelt's buddy Zero's 2012 campaign coffers, too. Ain't karma a bitch?
Immelt moved on and is promoting the ginormous million dollar windmills that are each able to power either 5 1/2 hamster wheels or an electric can opener.
Probably with delicious cost overruns that offer all kinds of room for padding people's pockets too.
The best thing to do now is evacuate and hope for the best. No sense in killing more people with radiation.
The best thing to do now (which won't happen) is be honest about the meltdown. Good luck with that.
They are evacuating, over 200,000 evacuated. They are doing it very slowly, orderly.
They're Japs. In Amerika they would stop and loot every flat screen on the way.
If the motlen mass gets thru the containment base and hits groundwater the entire facility will be blown to smitherines. Tokyo will be irradiated and the entire economy will completely shut down.
Well, kind of...that just means the economy will THUMP with the reconstruction effort! That's good for the economy.
I shit you not...that was the discussion on CNBC. The earthquake and tsunami (what happened to 'tidal wave'?) was GOOD because it would force reconstruction and defeat the deflationary economy in Japan.
Keynesians. They never subtract the destruction from the GDP equation. They simlply add the rebuilding. They are the ones who believe digging a hole, and filling it back up again is twice the work as just digging the hole.
More precisely:
The prevailing economic model for almost all economists discounts macro environmental pillage and human degradation as a cost when calculating (micro) profit. Thus, for example, the only "cost" of depleting the fisheries is the cost of directly harvesting the fish.
Further, the power elite mostly regard wars and catastrophes as opportunities for profiteering, price-gouging, takeovers, no-bid emergency projects, and avoiding oversight and regulations. The Shock Doctrine is not so new.
In short, the fear and misery of the many typically are good for the profits of a few.
Realizing that it's a different scenario, this nation did rebuild itself after having two nukes dropped on it.
Uh, no, the USA rebuilt Japan. It also rebuilt Europe with the Marshall Plan.
Golly, people sure do seem to forget shit.
Well, that means it's almost time for the take-it-in-the-ass mystery rally!
Yep, REITs and financials alreay starting their magic reversal right now.
Must be that 'liquidity' thingy I keep hearing about.
Look what the Japanese government is telling its citizens in Ikawa City.
It is outrageous:
The Independent from UK reports: The sun sinksbehind the highway. We pass a convoy of fire engines and truckloads of self-defence force troops, on their way to the coast to help rebuild devastated villages. At an almost deserted service station, Chieko Matsumoto stands waiting for customers as NHK flickers live in the corner. The power plant is an hour away. "Not far enough," she says. "We've been told not to go outside and breathe the air, to stay here and watch the TV. It's just so scary."
We spot a schoolgirl waking quickly in the dark. "I'm on my way to pick up my mother," she tells us. "We're going to the refugee centre. We've been told to stay indoors and not breath in the radioactivity." Then she hurries off.
Staying indoors will not shield you from the radiation. Why haven't these people been evacuated? Probably because:
Most people want to believe Mr Kan when he says that the government is working hard this time to make sure "not a single resident will suffer any effects" from the radiation. But not Yoshi Watanabe, who lives with his wife and two young children about 135km from the Fukushima plant. "They don't know what they're doing," he says. "They should extend the perimeter further, but they can't because they can't handle that scale of evacuation."
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/were-told-not-to-breathe-the-air-ndash-its-scary-2240509.html
The Japanese will soon learn that they cannot trust everything their government says. Government calculates that the damage from massive evacuations will be greater than the radiation poisoning in the less populated areas. It's all for the "greater good". That is what government is all about. Do you hear that, Ikawa?
You are a sacrificial lamb for the good of Japan.
RELAX...they handed out some iodine tablets. It's all good.
Reminds me of the duck and cover drills for school children in the event of a nuclear attack...
LOL, of the 'duct tape' kits sold to people after 9/11.
Or, of course, the leather helmets on Kamikaze pilots...
Unfuckingreal.
Lewis Black: You know what they would do? They would come to my elementary school with films to show me how to protect myself from a nuclear-fuck-holocaust. They would show this giant nuclear-fucking-bomb just blowing the shit out of everything. Goats and monkeys flying everywhere. The windows of the elementary school blown out, the teacher banged up against the fucking blackboard. But there were the children... hiding safely under their desks.
truont: Excellent post. The sooner people relocate upwind, the less radiation exposure they will receive. Many times simply moving to another location where radiation isn't carried by the prevailing winds is enough to save your life.
The pols are all about saving face.
~Misstrial
Just a though; How much uranium/ plutonium was in those bombs used on Japan have in them, as compared to what is in those reactors?
The A-bombs, fat man and little boy, had grapefruit sized plutonium and uranium materials.
These reactors have much much more because they are used as fuel and not an explosive device.
Do they next learn that they cannot trust their government to pay on their bonds?
, but they can't because they can't handle that scale of evacuation."
Exactly. One Dipshit said, "They should evacuate Tokyo"
WHERE THE PHUK TO?
Government calculates that the damage from massive evacuations will be greater than the radiation poisoning in the less populated areas.
Keep'm at home, indoors, off the streets for MULTIPLE reasons.
It's called TRIAGE.
Kyodo reporting radiation levels twice the maximum now. Something leaking?
what this means is that certain parts of Japan will no longer be inhabitable by humans or animals , not to mention the fact that any rice farming is out of the question. Hello Little Tokyo, looks like some slightly radioactive, worthless gaijins (Black Rain , 1998) are coming our way.....Move over Robo........
If the Japanese government will lie to their own people, what assurances would anyone have of their exported food products from now on?
We've heard that 10% of Chinese rice is contaminated with Cadmium. Which rice is exported? with Cadmium or without? Japanese rice - would you like that with Plutonium or with Cesium?
Yeh Whole foods got caught last year , selling chinese vegetables and labeling them , organic...ha ha ha
radiation, shmadiation...
The BOJ will pump yen, Ben will pump dollars, the usual suspect economists will talk about the resiliency of the global economy and "slack" in the system and, like magic, stocks will go higher!
The thing about investment markets that ALWAYS catches many of these morons is that their failed policies, flawed forecasts and assurances all work right up to the moment when they don't, and then we get a financial tsunami.
At this point, we're now all well aware of the difference between a tidal wave and a tsunami. The former you can see coming. The latter is a wave below the water line that is imperceptible to the human eye.
Triple Black Swan with a Middle East cherry on top.....wow..its like the grand finally at the 4th of July fire works show !
Fuel rods melting in 3 troubled reactors only spells one thing...MAJOR DISASTER. This is not going to end well, they need to start the evacuation of Tokyo immediatly. A day late and a dollar short will not work in this scenario. We are talking millions of people verses radiation exposure. Overheating rods, explosions, fires, failing pumps, and no fuel only spell trouble to me. And like the GOM disaster they will lie as long as can until the truth is so obvious they can't lie anylonger. Those reactors will look like burning lava before they will admit failure. By then it will be too late to come up with a plan, there will be total chaos and lives will once again be subjected to the economy vs. reality conflict that keeps the lid on the truth.
Evacuate? Are you crazy? This solves their problem of all the extra old people to take care of. The smart mobile young will self evacuate. Cleans the gene pool of the young and not too bright at the same time.
Dude, just STFU. You are an idiot.
Any chance you work for the nuclear industry, trav?
Japanese Government spokesman says - I am glad you called and asked that question. Here is my Obaasan to discuss it for us. - pause- Oh wait, so sorry Soba is on roof can't talk right now. We go get her down you hold line. She on roof #2 reactor. Right back...
Apple I-Pad lll is in the works, equiped with radiation meter and free "your totally fucked app".
What does this say about governments all over the world, who have state/private companies operating mega nuclear plants?
Here in Illinois the coal companies run the show.
Wrong. Here in Illinois Exelon runs the show - period.
Did you mean " who have state/private companies operating governments?"
When did ZeroHedge decide to go full retard on this story? The fuel rods have suffered damage and some portions have melted. This has been known for days. We knew that when we saw I-131 and Cs-137 from the steam venting.
Water is being pumped back in. Things are very bad, but not catastrophic and certainly nothing like Chernobyl.
As for "
We can only hope that the team that did not test for an 8+ magnitude earthquake did a better job at fortifying the containment shell which is the only thing separating radiation from the outer world" you are obviously a moron who has never done anything except ride a desk.
1. The reactors survived the quakes. They shut down properly. They survived the massive earthquake with the reactor systems intact.
2. The tsunami was bigger than they had planned their site for and it washed away the support infrastructure. This is bad. They have written off the reactors and have pumped in seawater. The raised temperatures in the core caused steam to build up as well as hydrogen to off-gas. This was vented and caused explosions that blew up support buildings but not the containment building and not the pressure vessel where the fuel rests.
3. There has been no "China Syndrome" and if you actually study heat transfer you know that the pressure vessel will dump the heat even if over half the core melts down totally (this is what happened at TMI and the vessel survived).
4. There will be radiation dumped to the environment. Please cite your sources going forward.
PHEW!
That was close!
Now, back to your normal programming.
"Water is being pumped back in. Things are very bad, but not catastrophic and certainly nothing like Chernobyl."
From AP:
Japan 'Chernobyl' feared
US nuclear experts have warned that pumping seawater to cool a quake-hit Japanese nuclear reactor is an “act of desperation” that could foreshadow a Chernobyl-like disaster, referring to the 1986 accident in Ukraine.
...
Peter Bradford, former member of the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC), said that if the cooling attempts failed, “at that point it’s a Chernobyl-like situation where you start dumping in sand and cement.”
Joseph Cirincione, the head of the Ploughshares Fund, told CNN that the presence of radioactive cesium in the atmosphere after the plant was vented indicated that a partial meltdown was under way.
“That told the operators that the fuel rods had been exposed, that the water level had dropped below the fuel rods and the fuel rods were starting to burn, releasing cesium,” he said.
The releases of iodine and cesium “imply some kind of core problem,” Thomas Cochran, a senior scientist in the nuclear program of the Natural Resources Defense Council, a private group in Washington, told The New York Times.
Japan’s nuclear safety agency rated the Fukushima accident at four on the International Nuclear Event Scale from 0 to 7. The Three Mile Island accident was rated five while Chernobyl was a seven.
The government declared an atomic emergency and said thousands of people living within 12 miles (20 kilometers) of the plant should leave after an explosion at the nuclear plant last Saturday.
Paul Gunter of the US organization Beyond Nuclear told Fox News that the evacuation zone might be too small: “If that containment is lost... this will spread a tremendous amount of radioactivity, and it will then be borne on the weather.”
The NRC said it had sent two experts—experts in boiling water nuclear reactors who are part of a broader US aid team— to the disaster zone.
Jesus Fucking Christ...you're not helping! The man said it was A-OK.
an anti-nuclear BUREAUCRAT is who Peter Bradford is.
Do you even BOTHER to check your sources before posting bullshit?
You morons pick apart every single little snippet on CNBC or related to markets or wtfever the Bernank says, but you can't even do a smidgeon of research on who this guy is?
When the fuck did everybody around here go nuts? I have long suspected that people here aren't very bright, but this is just confirmation.
It's as most of the people here CLAIMING to be rational are just misanthropes HOPING for the end of the motherfucking world.
Please, all of you, just BUG OUT NOW and stop posting
I must admit that I did not read the rest of the article, but this line alone discredits him. Pumping seawater as a backup system was desinged into the plant from the beginning. Pumping water is the logical thing to do if they can't get the traditional cooling systems online. A demostration of logic here: pumping seawater means tradional cooling methods are offline. Pumping seawater does not mean explosion in future. Before going further answer this question:
If all tweets are morons and some morons are dumplings then are all dumplings that are panicing and spreading fear morons and sometimes tweets?
PS the wind direction for today was southern so that area will be affected by the radiation released earlier. traditionally the wind blows westward so it should go into the pacific. To clarify, there is radiation but the harmful radiation has a half life of 8 days. If the radiation is a thousand times normal then after 80 days it will be back to normal...my opinion is that it is less than a thousand times more than normal.
Nuclear power going nowhere. New plants are far safer than these antiquated GE behemoths.
oil is depleting...there is no other option. Future and current designs will be upgraded to account for total loss of offsite power. And, again, I gotta shout out for PBMR which will not melt down.
Just wondering - can you categorically confirm that the containment has been maintained on those reactors ?
Also am I correct that #3 was loaded with MOX, which is a blend of oxides of plutonium and uranium... You really don't want plutonium contamination....
I can confirm (based on reports, since I am not on-site) that between the pressure readings they citing and the lack of massive amounts of I-131 and Cs-137, then yes, containment has held.
For those that think the Japanese government will lie about this, please recall that there are nuke monitors stretched all over NE Asia and NOT in the hands of the Japanese government. We'll know pretty quick if we lose the pressure vessel and containment.
Key words to look for: I-131 and Cs-137, plus "sustained increases" - there will be spikes in radiation as they release pressure from units 1, 2 and 3.
Don't take this as minimizing the situation. Things are horrible there, but not yet catastrophic.
Thanks for your follow up.
You you mind - if you can - commenting about the implications of MOX being used in the reactor in this "controlled release" of radiation (let's forget about containment loss for the moment as it would be a major catastrophe regardless of the fuel used) ?
I see there is at least ONE rational besides myself on ZH...thank God, I had lost all hope there for a minute.
What you say is ENTIRELY correct. The presence of Cs137 indicates no more than water levels INSIDE the reactor having dropped due to boil-off of coolant. This is how the thing functions.
Shit there sucks; there is no doubt of it...but those who secretly are WISHING for the end of the world, kindly BUG OUT NOW and stay in your hole till your canned ham runs out.
Also, just FYI on the MOX "issue." ALL uranium based fuels will contain plutonium after being in the core for any significant length of time.
The MOX issue is a bit of a red herring. Some poli sci major who became a reporter is using it to drive viewers and readers without giving you full disclosure and details.
Sorry missed that one - I understand the used fuel will contain plutonium but up to the 7% being quoted here ?
'Water is being pumped back in. '
no it's not. at least not in no1 and no3. Tepco said that they only got one firepump. What's wrong with people's attention spans? didn't you see explosions? what do you think these explosions did to emergency crews, engines and everything around? what?
Maybe he mistook it for the Marvel Comics "Super-Firetruck"; made out of Kryptonite; and able to pump right through exploding buildings.
Thank you for the dose of rationality. There are way too many chicken littles running around here this morning. BTW, the 'china syndrome' only occurs in the absence of the laws of physics. Even in Chernobyl, which used graphite in place of water (the graphite is what burned) the molten fuel rods only made it as far as the first underground level.
Ah, another voice of reason.
ZH seems to go full retard on a lot of issues these days.
the business of journalism is sensation; hype it up and get those page clicks; it seems to be inevitable.
It may be a good idea to stop eating my favourite Sushi.
It's all OK. Benny and the Inkjets will just print more iodine pills and safe power for everyone.
Maybe they can POMO-stick the world economy right over the mess in Japan. He went to Hahvahd ya know. Practically knows everything.
ETHICAL INTENT
you want to go in and look at it? i don't want to go in and look at it. does anybody want to go in and look at it? nobody? what will we say it looks like? suggestions?
Where are he Robots.
Japan is the home of the Robot.
It is bad but please educate yourself before offering any analysis. I realize that I am being a bit unreasonable here; of course everyone wants to get their bit in. Saying things are bad does not add to the discussion. Here is an interesting source of information: (this person provided proof of their credentials)
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/g37tl/ima_former_nuclear_emergency...
Should comment be left to only those who are qualified?
And perhaps TEPCO?
People are entitled to comment.
After all they have been lied to about virtually everything of importance.
By the by. This is a blog.
If some of the hysteria annoys you.
Don't read it.
Up, Guards, and at 'em.
Duke of Wellington
That's why we're here at ZH, heh!
Then I will kindly ask that you label your post as hysteria in the first line if you are to engage in it.
Hysteria is counter productive. I am not questioning people's entitlement to comment. I am asking people to think. The popularity of this site is at risk if the comments are made by apparently uneducated loons due to first time visitors, not knowing better as both of us do, getting that impression as they peruse the comments. I would not fault them, since the quality of a post or comment should not be judged by the identity of the author but by its utility.
This is not about my feelings. This is about doing the right thing. If we are to continue the efforts against the cartels, oligarchy et al, we should mind the integrity of information here. People are drawn to quality.
Ah. But my post was not in the slightest hysterical.
I am not calling a China Syndrome. It is a nonsense idea anyway.
I am not even calling a catastrophic meltdown.
I am calling loss of control.
Why is the Seventh Fleet on the move?
Why has France advises it's Citizens to leave?
I was not referring to your post, I was using the general "you." YOU seem to have your wits about you.
France is advising evacuation because there is radiation escaping. Today it is moving south. In about 80 days it will be 99.9% gone. Seventh Fleet is on the move now as a precaution. There was loss of control on the day of the earthquake and tsunami. Radiation is escaping and some activated air was let out in order to do so in a controlled manner.
There is a very low chance of a meltdown. They will pump seawater into the cores until they have to. The only problem would be if they are unable to do so. The reactor shut down as soon as the earthquake struck thus making the chances of a meltdown similar in proportions to Chernobyl minute. In my opinion the probability of danger from the reactor is much smaller than the proportion of comments here calling for the apocalypse.
It's troubling...all your questions. In order to be a better sheeple, you should stop asking such questions and buy E minis...chop chop. There is a very large criminal class of people, previously known as bankers, that need you to participate so that they are not caught going long into their own stupidity.
We cannot have said criminal class becoming the bagholders on this mess! So buck up Japanese people...and quit whining.
An NO MORE troubling questions, Lord Wellington!
Yes Cdad questions are good. Building strawhat arguments and making appeals to common beliefs is bad and lame.
I live in Korea. Korea is close to Japan. I have done research, because I wanted to know if my life was in danger, and have come to the conclusion that there is a very low chance of danger. Do your research. Question everything. Don't be too biased in one way or the other. Is this too much to ask?
Should comment be left to only those who are qualified? Gee, I don't know; should it?
People should check the overly emotional content of their comments.
Not it should not.
Unless of course you favour some form of Technocratic Dictatorship.
Reactor No.2 ran out of water completely because the fire engine that was pumping water ran out of gas, and TEPCO employees didn't notice until too late.
http://ex-skf.blogspot.com/2011/03/fukushima-i-nuke-plant-reactor-no2-fu...
How many Billions of FRN is it taking to keep the market only down 100 points?
LOL - war in the middle east, nuclear meltdown, Toyota stops production, BoA leaks - to defend the market this hard - must mean that they cannot let it fall...
Wouldn't it be interesting to know what was precisely on the opposite side of the earth from Fukushima? Nah, couldn't happen.
I'm seeing something very interesting. A lot of new names/handles, with no previous record of posting (I've been here, pretty much every day for close to a year) are suddenly showing up and making all the standard dis-info noises. And all of them show over a years' membership.
What's up TD's? Did you all really sell out to the man?
ORI
Yep, well, it's like this. Some longs needed better liquidation prices, which also affords for cheaper entry on Vix futures, fill in your version of this with HFT criminal activity...etc.
THEN...maybe after the US closes, we prepare for the helicopters with cement buckets. Mark my words, that is the next phase of this currently "under control" story.
Let them post whatever disinformation they like. Useless. As useless as The Ministry of Truth [CNBC] coverage today on the nuke issue, mostly about when the next nuke plant will be built in the US. Nice stroke, Ministry of Truth. Way to be on and entirely off point simultaneously! Just turn E. Burnett charm loose...and everything will be sweet again!
Short Comcast, buy VXX.
[P.S. Ms. E. Burnett...please go work on the Food Network. You would be so adorable there.]
Apparently, if the Japanese are going to plan and operate a nuclear power plant, they need an adult in the room with them at all times. I'm very surprised to be coming to this conclusion; but Tokyo Power co. has really convinced me. This whole mess was easily avoidable. To learn absolutely nothing after you already had a hydrogen explosion in one building; and take no action, so that the next one has its very own hydrogen explosion, is not acceptable. The radiation "news" is basically bullshit; it's very un-likely the small amounts of air-borne material will effect anyone. Nothing dramatic is going to happen; the cores are still sealed up; and they will remain so.
Someone in charge there said Explosion 2 would probably happen. And it did. I think I have read (lots of reading) that Explosion 3, and maybe 4, has been predicted. Sounds as though this is the expected course of events. Which would mean that things were intentionally built to play out this way (the explosions) if an emergency progressed this far.
How can anyone working there be alive after those explosions?
The reactor functioned properly and shut itself down. What failed was the back up water-pumping diesel generators made by GE.
Now Fuel rods melting...
3 eyed
sushi fish..
Well if it gets to the point they can't cool down those reactors (which indeed might already be the case for THOSE three reactors), the question is, when do they pull a Chernobyl and start pouring concrete all over them? Or would that even be the right way to approach it?
Will everyone please just RELAX?! The experts have everything under complete control. Just as they always do.