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Jean-Claude Juncker - Europe Is Doing God's Work By Lying About Greek Insolvency, And Keeping EURUSD Longs Profitable

Tyler Durden's picture





 

A few weeks ago, the entire world was made aware that nobody in Europe is to be trusted any longer after Jean Claude Jun(c)ker admitted he lied to the media ahead of what Spiegel had leaked earlier was a "secret" meeting to kick Greece out of the eurozone (turned out to be only half true - Greece was not and will not be kicked out... voluntarily). The purpose for the lie: "self-preservation." Today, in a much anticipated showdown between the magazine (which Greece said would sue for spreading salacious, yet true, rumors), and the bureaucrat, we learn that it is not Goldman, but Europe, that is doing God's work by lying on a daily basis about the Greek insolvency: "The most important commandment is not to inflict harm on others. Although it isn't stated quite that way in the Ten Commandments, it follows from them. The finance ministers of several Euro Group nations had agreed to meet on Friday with the president of the European Central Bank (ECB), Jean-Claude Trichet. Because the financial markets in Europe were still open and trading was still underway on Wall Street, we had to deny the existence of the meeting. Otherwise the course of the euro against the dollar, which had already fallen as a result of your report, would have plunged disastrously." Ah yes, doing God's will by focusing on the greater good, which is making sure those EURUSD longs are not impaired. If this is not confirmation that Europe is run by sociopaths, then nothing is. All this, and much more, including such pearls as "If the donkey were a cat it could climb a tree. But it is not a cat" read the full surreal interview below.

From Spiegel Online

SPIEGEL: Mr. Prime Minister, you are a Christian Democrat and a
Catholic, which is why we want to talk to you about the Ten
Commandments.

 

Juncker: I already have an idea of what you are getting at.

SPIEGEL: Are you familiar with the Eighth Commandment?

Juncker: Of course. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

SPIEGEL: Apparently you don't take it very seriously. More than two weeks ago, you denied a
report
by SPIEGEL ONLINE about a secret meeting of several European Union
finance ministers to discuss the situation in Greece, even though the
official limousines were already pulling up in Luxembourg.

Juncker: The most important commandment is not to inflict harm on
others. Although it isn't stated quite that way in the Ten
Commandments, it follows from them. The finance ministers of several
Euro Group nations had agreed to meet on Friday with the president of
the European Central Bank (ECB), Jean-Claude Trichet. Because the
financial markets in Europe were still open and trading was still
underway on Wall Street, we had to deny the existence of the meeting.
Otherwise the course of the euro against the dollar, which had already
fallen as a result of your report, would have plunged disastrously.

SPIEGEL: With this false denial, you not only harmed your own credibility, but that of European financial policy as well.

Juncker: And it didn't exactly enhance the credibility of SPIEGEL
ONLINE to disseminate the false report that we were meeting in
Luxembourg to discuss Greece's withdrawal from the monetary union.

SPIEGEL: Forgive us for saying so, but SPIEGEL ONLINE had
obtained information to that effect from government sources, as well as a
working document prepared specifically for this meeting for the German
finance minister.

Juncker: It is not unusual for finance ministers to have
documents with them that contain all of the issues being discussed in
public. And the question of Greece's withdrawal from the monetary union
is certainly being discussed in public. But that's a far cry from saying
that the issue is on the agenda of a meeting. As a result, I had to be
all the more careful to ensure that no unnecessary turbulence would
occur in the markets.

SPIEGEL: Are you saying that, as a finance minister in the age of global capital markets, you cannot tell people the truth?

Juncker: I do not have a ready answer to your question. My main
concern is to protect people from detriment. That's why I feel
practically compelled to make sure that no dangerous rumors begin to
circulate. I'm certainly not going to go to confession because of a
false denial. God understands more about the financial markets than many
who write about them.

SPIEGEL: Former German President Horst Köhler described the
financial markets as a "monster." Has this monster changed the way in
which politicians can communicate?

Juncker: Without a doubt. When I do not confirm a course of
events even though I ought to, I know exactly why I am doing so. In
light of the nervousness of the financial markets, it is difficult for
us to keep the public adequately and correctly informed all the time.
This is regrettable, but unfortunately it's also unavoidable.

SPIEGEL: When secret meetings are held and the truth isn't always
being told, people gain the impression that there must be something
wrong with this Europe.

Juncker: People understand perfectly well that politicians have
to discuss sensitive issues behind closed doors. I had 10 seconds to
decide how to react to the report in SPIEGEL ONLINE. Let us say,
hypothetically, that I had said: "Okay, we are having a meeting, but I'm
not going to tell you what we intend to talk about." That would have
triggered a tsunami in the financial markets. Instead, I chose to
produce a small wave of outrage over a white lie.

SPIEGEL: Nevertheless, we'd like to try aiming for the truth: How bad is the situation for Greece really?

Juncker: Greece has not adequately implemented the consolidation
program to which it had agreed. Revenues are 9 percent below the target,
the reform of the tax system is not proceeding as agreed and the
planned privatization efforts haven't even been initiated. We were very
direct in trying to explain these failings to our Greek friends at the
last meeting of the European Union finance ministers.

SPIEGEL: What does Athens have to change?

Juncker: There are quite a few things Greece can do to clean up
its budget. The government bureaucracy is bloated and needs to be
reduced in size. Besides, the country has significant assets that the
government owns.

SPIEGEL: Experts estimate the value of these public assets at about €300 billion ($426 billion).

Juncker: I can't confirm that number. However, I do assume that
with privatizations, the Greek government will be able to generate far
more revenue over the years than the €50 billion it actually proposed.

SPIEGEL: But the Greek government will hardly achieve that of its own accord. Don't you have to apply more pressure to Athens?

Juncker: In the future, the European Union will monitor the
privatization program as tightly as if we were implementing it
ourselves. For example, I would welcome it if our Greek friends were to
establish a privatization agency independent of the government, based on
the model of Germany's Treuhandanstalt privatization agency (which
managed the privatization of East German enterprises after
reunification), one that would also be staffed with foreign experts. In
addition, the European community of nations expects the two major
political groups in the country to settle their petty differences when
it comes to this critical political issue. The government and the
opposition should jointly declare their commitment to the reform
agreements with the EU.

SPIEGEL: The country's debt burden is so large that even tough
austerity programs and loans are not enough to pull it out of the
crisis. Why don't you finally admit that Greece is broke?

Juncker: Greece is not broke. That is what the experienced
experts with the International Monetary Fund and the European Central
Bank tell us. I am firmly convinced that, in a joint effort, we can lead
Greece out of the crisis.

SPIEGEL: The total debt amounts to almost 160 percent of Greece's
economic output. With such a debt burden, how is the country ever
supposed to make any headway?

Juncker: The United States and Japan also have high debt levels, and yet no one would claim that those countries are bankrupt.

SPIEGEL: But Japan and the United States have their own currencies, which they can devalue, if necessary.

Juncker: That option is not open to Greece -- I'll acknowledge
that. Nevertheless, it doesn't mean that the government is powerless. On
the contrary, Greece can bolster its competitiveness, and it can pursue
a reasonable economic policy and generate more growth.

SPIEGEL: Hope springs eternal.

Juncker: No, I am just considering the alternatives. If Greece
were to declare a national bankruptcy tomorrow, the country would have
no access to the international financial market for years to come, and
its most important creditors, the banks in Germany and Europe, would
have an enormous problem -- with incalculable consequences for the
financial market.

SPIEGEL: But you exaggerate. The European lenders are in a better
position than two years ago, and now many countries have established
their own bailout instruments to protect against bank crashes.

 

Juncker: I would be cautious in that regard. We are still at the
epicenter of a global crisis. We are dealing with largely irrational
markets, nervous investors and rating agencies whose conclusions don't
always make complete sense. I'll stick to my argument: In the case of a
national bankruptcy with a subsequent debt restructuring, we would be
letting a genie out of the bottle without knowing in which direction it
would be flying.

SPIEGEL: The banks, which are you so quick to criticize, are the
ones that stand to benefit. They can rake in high profits for their
Greece investments and be sure that German or Dutch taxpayers will carry
the risks in the end. How do you intend to convey this to people?

Juncker: An economic system in which the profits are privatized
and the risks socialized goes against my basic convictions. However, we
must be careful that we do not blow up the global financial system by
insisting on regulatory principles. That is why I advise exercising as
much restraint as possible when it comes to the notion, which is
certainly justified, of asking private lenders to participate in the
costs of the crisis.

SPIEGEL: That's why you have argued for a "soft restructuring." What exactly do you mean by that?

Juncker: First Greece will have to fulfill its consolidation
program, as promised. Once that has happened, we can think about
extending the terms of public and private loans and reducing interest
rates. That is what I mean by a "soft restructuring." It would be the
very last step in a very long process.

SPIEGEL: European Central Bank President Trichet doesn't even
want to consider that. Can you understand why he is strictly against any
form of debt restructuring?

Juncker: Trichet is very cautious when it comes to debt
restructuring, because he is afraid, and rightfully so, that the crisis
could then spread to other countries. That is why a soft restructuring
can only be an option in specific cases and only under certain
conditions.

SPIEGEL: Could you be more specific, please?

Juncker: It has to be ensured that the rating agencies will not
treat a soft restructuring as a default. Otherwise the banks would have
to write off billions in claims, with incalculable consequences for the
capital market.

SPIEGEL: With all due respect to your restraint on the question
of restructuring, what happens if we're sitting here again next year and
conclude that Greece is still not on a stabilization course?

Juncker: If the donkey were a cat it could climb a tree. But it
is not a cat. Nevertheless, this is a question that worries many people.
My answer to it is almost a little theological: I do not believe that
this question will ever be asked.

SPIEGEL: Many people are not as firm in their convictions as you
are. They fear that billions in tax revenues will soon be sent to other
countries, which is why there is growing resistance across Europe
against further aid programs and the planned
European Stability Mechanism
(ESM, which is intended to go into effect in mid-2013 as a permanent
bailout fund for the common currency if it heads into troubled waters).

Juncker: So far, no European taxpayer has had to pay a cent for
the rescue of debt-ridden euro countries. On the contrary, Greece is
currently paying a substantial amount of interest to the donor
countries, whose tax revenues have not been needed yet.

SPIEGEL: But it could happen. German essayist Kurt Tucholsky once
said that the man on the street cannot understand the truth, but he can
often sense it very well.

Juncker: It is true that people usually have a healthy gut
feeling, and that also applies to the risks of the bailout packages. I
just thing it is wrong to completely indulge one's gut feeling.

SPIEGEL: There are growing demands within the parliamentary
groups of Germany's ruling parties to consult the parliament before a
euro country receives assistance from the ESM. Could you accept this?

Juncker: There are few central bankers who are troubled by the
notion that we need unanimity on central issues in Europe. But even in
times of crisis, we cannot undermine democracy. I completely understand
that parliamentarians want to be part of the decision-making process in
cases that affect the parliament's budgetary authority.

SPIEGEL: Europe isn't just in a financial crisis. Governments in
many places, spurred on by populists, are dialing back European
integration. Italy, France and Denmark are challenging the freedom to
travel. How do you explain this return to small state regionalism?

Juncker: As a Luxembourger, I do not like to hear that word.
After all, we are confirmed regionalists. But it is true that the
achievements of European integration are being questioned for short-term
political reasons. People have been asked to accept quite a few changes
in the last 20 years, from globalization to the reorganization of
Europe. If we do not structure the European project in such a way that
people can accept it, we run the risk that it will fail.

SPIEGEL: Skepticism about Europe pays off at the polls, as the example of the "True Finns" shows.

Juncker: We should not confuse politics with opinion polls. I
have noted with concern that there is a growing sense, even within
Europe's major parties, of having to yield to these moods. I warn
against imitating populists. In politics, you have to be willing to
accept criticism from time to time. If you want to have a discussion
with people, sometimes you have to stand in their path and say: "Stop.
It does not work this way." Those who simply run after voters can never
see them from the front.

SPIEGEL: Mr. Prime Minister, we thank you for this interview.

Interview conducted by Michael Sauga and Christoph Schult. Translated from the German by Christopher Sultan

 


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Mon, 05/23/2011 - 08:57 | Link to Comment jtaskinen
jtaskinen's picture

Maybe I should apply for a green card anyway...CIA is chasing terrorists in Sweden without approval...this was in Dagens Nyheter today.

So I might have an equal chance of getting to some FEMA list over here, the only difference being that while waiting, I end up paying more tax.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 09:41 | Link to Comment Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

If you're chatting on ZH, you're on the no fly list anyway so why bother?

ESTA NOT APPROVED!

 

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 09:01 | Link to Comment monopoly
monopoly's picture

GM All. What I find amazing is that we wake up Monday morning and read the news and yet none of what is happening is a surprise to any of us long term Zero Hedge subscribers. It is all falling into place. It is taking a long time for this Titanic to sink, but it will.

Patience and hand on the tiller will work. Like what I own.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 10:30 | Link to Comment TheTmfreak
TheTmfreak's picture

No kidding.

The entire system is a house of cards. Clearly evident by the fact these fools are now openly (and getting caught) lying about it. So how many more lies? Pah.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 09:00 | Link to Comment Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

I'll be honest: The real truth is we've been lying to you all along. OK? Now you can start believing us!

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 09:10 | Link to Comment Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

When invoking the Decalogue wouldn't it be important to realize that use of one of the commandments to support an argument would mean the other nine would also come into play?  "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor" - I would imagine they didn't see this particular one. 

God damn these fucks.  Opps -  You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not acquit anyone who misuses his name.

 

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 09:18 | Link to Comment SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Our trustworthiness lies in our spotless track record of unwavering lies.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 09:42 | Link to Comment Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Our trustworthiness lies in our spotless track record of unwavering lies.

Can you prove it?

 

PS: WE KNOW WHERE YOU LIVE!

HINT: OPERATION CLEANING LADY WITHOUT A GREENCARD WHO WILL DO WHATEVER FOR A GREENCARD.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 09:48 | Link to Comment Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Loves me a honey trap

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 09:43 | Link to Comment The Profit Prophet
The Profit Prophet's picture

++++

We now live in a world of lies...thanks to the Prince of Lies!

T.E.I.N. everyone!

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 09:05 | Link to Comment monopoly
monopoly's picture

Gold at day high. Silver still basing. Tough to short, all the head inmate has to do is even verbally "hint" at QE3 and the market takes off. We know there will be QE 11+. But until this Mad man talks about it there is a question mark for the sheeples.

No shorts.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 09:06 | Link to Comment Hondo
Hondo's picture

If he can't tell the truth then he needs to shut his f****** trap!!

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 09:53 | Link to Comment Votewithabullet
Votewithabullet's picture

Snicker. The world would get real quiet.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 09:03 | Link to Comment Josh Randall
Josh Randall's picture

Is it me or does Europe remind you of one of those calm, cool, collected customers that is about to just lose it. Europe seems like it's about to be Falling Down like Michael Douglas...

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 09:09 | Link to Comment SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Theyre going to die with that silly hat on.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 09:13 | Link to Comment Re-Discovery
Re-Discovery's picture

More like the Chief Inspector in the Pink Panther movies.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 09:04 | Link to Comment equity_momo
equity_momo's picture

I do not have a ready answer to your question

 

LOL what a fucking shit show this game has become.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 09:10 | Link to Comment equity_momo
equity_momo's picture

Greece is not broke. That is what the experienced experts with the International Monetary Fund and the European Central Bank tell us.

 

Experienced experts eh? hahahhahah.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 11:42 | Link to Comment Zero Debt
Zero Debt's picture

"We will never monetize european debt", the experts said.

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/20100504/the-ecb-is-printing.htm

 

 

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 09:06 | Link to Comment belogical
belogical's picture

Wow, only completely disassociated megalomaniacs reason like that.

Let see, steal all the money and get everyone in debt up to their eye's and then break every law and commandment under the premise your doing GOD's work

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 09:09 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

With all these people doing God's work, you would have thought the rapture would have been more successful.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 09:15 | Link to Comment LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

+ a trillion clown bucks.  Now I can get some shit done.  Thanks for the chuckle.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 09:31 | Link to Comment citrine
citrine's picture

+1

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 09:50 | Link to Comment Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

This is the 'Failed Rapture Selloff"

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 09:50 | Link to Comment The Profit Prophet
The Profit Prophet's picture

(Looking down from above) What do you mean...it was successful.

Are you still on earth CD?

T.E.I.N. everyone!

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 10:01 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

LOL

Banzai7 and I were just discussing via email how maybe the rapture was successful and instead of us 'going' to heaven, some of 'us' just dropped down into hell. We shall see if this is so as the trading day progresses. I'm doubtful, but Banzai7 says my problem is that I have too little faith. :>)

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 10:07 | Link to Comment DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

I'm pretty sure it was hell. I saw Blankfein painting roses in the foyer

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 09:08 | Link to Comment chubbar
chubbar's picture

It's quite clear that the mission of the PTB (operating through the IMF, et al) is to divest gov'ts of any and all usable assets to be placed with corporations that are funded/owned by the banking cabal (which has unlimited access to the printing press to fund these purchases). They intend to rule the world by owning every asset that a person would need to interact with in order to live life. This is an outrage. I hope the citizens wake the fuck up before the gov't capitulates.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 09:10 | Link to Comment Josephine29
Josephine29's picture

Greek insolvency? What about European Central Bank insolvency?

The European Central Bank is insolvent

Back on May 11th I pointed out this.

As to debt restructuring the Euro zone has by a combination of incompetence and dithering got itself into a position where a lot of the restructuring would take place on the books of the European Central Bank!

Back on the 6th of December last year I suggested this.

the balance sheet of Europe’s central bank looks ever riskier to me and it is quite conceivable that we could be in an era where central banks as well as private-sector banks need bailing out.

 

http://t.co/aK6Fhal

 

I think that the insolvency of the central bank of Europe is a bigger issue that the Greek one -with apologies to any Greeks reading this-.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 09:50 | Link to Comment oogs66
oogs66's picture

Yes, and no. The insolvency isn't real as they have capital calls to the EU members. So the ECB's losses are made up for by the EU governments.  So basically the EU countries are lending to Greece directly, and struggling with that, and are about to get a bill from Trichet that is bigger than the amount they agreed to lend directly.  It is worse than doubling down for these countries since they did not all agree to back Trichet's purchases.  But at least the bill will be 'Service Compris'.  That should make the True Finns happy!

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 09:10 | Link to Comment LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

LOL, it is always amusing to watch a person justify their actions as their power is slowly deteriorating.  All countries will now have to deal with their own filth.  Hedge accordingly.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 09:12 | Link to Comment Re-Discovery
Re-Discovery's picture

Idiot doesn't know just how much harm he is inflicting.  Should be tried and shot for treason against the entire world.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 09:13 | Link to Comment lizzy36
lizzy36's picture

When anybody but god tells me they are doing "God's work" (except GOD him/herself) I expect to be handed some k-y and bent over.

The antithetical of confidence is when someone lies to you for your own good.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 09:22 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Benevolent dictators (junior and senior grade) only have our best interest in mind. And as long as we continue to bend over they will continue to be benevolent.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 12:48 | Link to Comment Drachma
Drachma's picture

Got it, so what you're saying is go long on K-Y? You gotta love the bene-v(i)olence of the dog-priests.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 09:31 | Link to Comment disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

careful what you ask for.  and lest we the human race forget "God has one wicked sense of humor."

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 10:01 | Link to Comment Jalaluddin
Jalaluddin's picture

The platypus is proof.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 10:11 | Link to Comment DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

that's the thing about the greater good. It's usually bought on credit

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 09:21 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

The Physics of the Matter dictates  All be Impossible, for no two particles may occupy the same space at once.

Thus, both Timmah and Jean-Clown cannot win at the same game.  Both currencies may not depreciate against one another simultaneously.

However, they can simultaneously depreciate against Gold.
Great fucking job, God's soldiers!

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 09:24 | Link to Comment JerseyCynic
JerseyCynic's picture

GREECE HAS A LOT OF TALENT!!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xb9SAzWL3Bg

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 09:25 | Link to Comment tradewithdave
Mon, 05/23/2011 - 09:23 | Link to Comment pazmaker
pazmaker's picture

The elitism of this asshole seeps through the pores of his skin.....

 

We lie to you for your own good because you are a peon and can't handle the truth.....that is is the main point I got out of this scumbag!

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 09:31 | Link to Comment Ferg .
Ferg .'s picture

Although I detest the lies and suppression of facts by EU ( and Fed ) officials ( the details of the Greek swaps that Bloomberg is so eager to observe for example ) I have little doubt that their intentions are sincere . The common thread in this interview and also in comments from other EU officals regarding similar material is the possibility of negative reactions from market participants. I agree 100% with Juncker when he describes financial markets as "largely irrational". They are , no doubt about it . 

It's natural that those in influential positions attempt to control the dissemination of information so as to ensure market stability ; I don't agree with that approach , but I can understand it . It shits all over the concept of efficient markets though and creates massive distortions . If the smooth operation of financial markets is dependent on outright lies and the filtering of information then I really do despair for the future . 

 

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 09:50 | Link to Comment THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

@Ferg

Remind me again about the size of the derivative markets - I have no real feel for astronomical numbers.

But maybe I am being a tad irrational - given the fact I don't like getting this close to a event horizon.

 Anyhow in the mans defence - he is honest about lying.

Our Bureaucrats are more Noble then your Bureaucrats America.

Yee have peasants for functionaries but we have ...............

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 10:03 | Link to Comment firefighter302
firefighter302's picture

Dork of Cork says, "In the mans defense, he is honest about lying."

He lied.

Don't make excuses for him. The responsibility for his actions is not minimized one iota for admitting it.

As  I've read, Liberal European apologists are not based in the acceptance of responsibility for ones actions. Gun-toting American Libertarians such as myself, do believe in accepting reponsibility for ones deeds and thoughts.

Perhaps, dishonesty used as a tool for selfish gain is part of the bigger problem?

 

 

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 10:15 | Link to Comment THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

Fuck off you dumb shit

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 10:25 | Link to Comment firefighter302
firefighter302's picture

When Leftists CANNOT win in the Arena of thought, they always revert to shouting and insults.

Thanks for clearly proving my point about character.

 

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 10:29 | Link to Comment tellsometruth
tellsometruth's picture

read my post below

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 10:16 | Link to Comment Ferg .
Ferg .'s picture

Well apparently the US derviatives market alone is worth $300 trillion dollars in notional value . God only knows what the size of the derviative market worldwide is .  

http://www.acus.org/new_atlanticist/derivatives-market-20-times-size-american-economy 

 

Yeah it was refreshing that he admitted to lying and furthermore gave the reason why . It was a great interview and Der Spiegel really tore into him . Perhaps our bureacrats are more noble , or rather less ignoble that those across the Atlantic . 

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 10:20 | Link to Comment THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

@Ferg

I was casting a fly waiting for a fat trout to take the bait - I really could not give a toss anymore.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 09:50 | Link to Comment Ayn Rand
Ayn Rand's picture

" I have little doubt that their intentions are sincere"

You are kidding I hope.   Governments lie to the people all the time and when one excuses it because their intentions are sincere then one excuses all lies.   Maybe Goebells had good intentions also.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 10:28 | Link to Comment Ferg .
Ferg .'s picture

I completely agree . Governments , politicians and supranational organizations lie constantly . It makes my head spin . However I believe that Trichet and Juncker et al do have good intentions but that they are going about manifesting those intentions incorrectly ( i.e through information suppression and deceit ) . Just to be clear I in no way approve , excuse or condone this type of behaviour . I'm simply saying that behind this innapropriate approach to politics and financial markets I can see some genuinely decent sentiments . 

As I said in my initial post :

It's natural that those in influential positions attempt to control the dissemination of information so as to ensure market stability ; I don't agree with that approach , but I can understand it. "   

 

 Just to be clear I in no way approve of , excuse or condone this type of behaviour . I'm simply saying that behind this innapropriate approach to politics and financial markets I can see some genuinely decent sentiments . 


Mon, 05/23/2011 - 11:23 | Link to Comment falak pema
falak pema's picture

you really sound like your are between a whirlpool of lies and a hard rock of market manipulated truth. Like the rest of us...let the fog clear and we will know where the corpses lie on the beach.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 09:31 | Link to Comment celticgold
celticgold's picture

"greece"  has a lot of assets , that they could sell ,or , offset against their debt . to whom , exactly, would these assets go to in this case?

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 09:38 | Link to Comment Robslob
Robslob's picture

How soon everyone forgets the EU $1,000,000,000,000.00 BAILOUT?

So $1 Trillion last about 1 Year...got it?!?

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 09:40 | Link to Comment Urban Redneck
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SPIEGEL should interview TOTUS, and publish a side-by-side.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 09:37 | Link to Comment falak pema
falak pema's picture

Oh to lie in God's name.... I think that is a page out of DSk's personal life story...

"I did what I did as God advised me it was in the general interest. I had a direct line to him as head of IMF. Now I have a direct line to the Devil. Thanks to this stupid NYPD and judge. But as my lawyer says, God has not abandoned me."

I see a parallel there between the devil's advocates : NYPD and Der Spiegel, on either side of the pond.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 09:42 | Link to Comment Arius
Arius's picture

could you imagine an amerikan journalist asking tough questions like this to Geithner???

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 09:39 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
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Here is the real reason behind the lies.

Juncker: No, I am just considering the alternatives. If Greece were to declare a national bankruptcy tomorrow, the country would have no access to the international financial market for years to come, and its most important creditors, the banks in Germany and Europe, would have an enormous problem -- with incalculable consequences for the financial market.

They have built a global house of cards and now must support every card as if it were the last one holding up the house.....because it is.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 09:53 | Link to Comment oogs66
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even if greece defaults, they could get money in a short time.  hell, Pimco is sitting on tonnes of cash, just offer then some senior secured first lien bonds post default, slap on a decent coupon, and watch Pimco hoover them up.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 11:37 | Link to Comment falak pema
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the only real creditors are those sitting on growth markets and strategic commodities: China, Russia, ME, Brazil, India, Turkey...

So the Euro bail out will only be possible once :

a) the Euro position is established. Are they solid fiscally and monetarily or not? This is NOT clear today.

b) How do they restructure the two tier economy? Two tier euro or monetary split?

c)  Who then buys into the consolidated or split system to integrate it into the global system. 

  This is where the BRIC countries will step in. Not before; as EU must first define what it is to its people.

d) The role of IMF is uncertain until the EU group has not defined its collective strategy relative to "hair cuts" and Club Med restructuring. It is evident for all as per the numbers that RM has presented here time and again that restructuring is now inevitable. 

Managing it as above in a coordinated way is the only short term issue. 

However, in the bigger agenda of the international currency war between China and USD, the Euro is now a punching bag for both giants, who are not thinking collective risk but "every man for himself". 

This could bring the Titanic to sink earlier than expected. As the desired date as we all know for the Oligarchs is post November 2012...Will China wait? Will the EU get its act together? 

The markets don't seem to think so...

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 10:37 | Link to Comment Founders Keeper
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+1

 

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 09:50 | Link to Comment jkruffin
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Stocks crash and the dollar drops?  WTF?  This entire ponzi is going to fall apart across the globe.  Currencies manipualted, metals, stocks, they are all being manipulated.  How does the Euro go back above 1.40 on stock crash, when stocks were driven to their highs on the Euro? How does the dollar fall against the YEN?   This whole fiasco they call a free market is embarassing.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 10:09 | Link to Comment firefighter302
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The idea of any "fair and unmanipulated markets" in fiat currancies, derivative commodoties or managed equities (by the FED and GS, JP) is one of the biggest scams. They are a joke, aren't they?

How can anyone accurately make investments in this ridiculous game?

My bet is the Euro and then the dollar are going to eventually fail and need to be reset to a "non-fiat" currancy.  But the FED is going to prop up Wall Street, all the way over the cliff.

Buying physical silver coins, on a regular basis, has been a plan I've believed in for a while. I see no reason to change course.

Boehner is another big government republican. The Republican Party lacks the character, as a whole, to change our the insane couse of big government democrats. And even if they did whack entitlements and military spending, what's the result to the economy?

Catch 22.  I can't imagine a realistic way out of this thing without a very "hard landing".

Firefighter302

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 09:54 | Link to Comment Manthong
Manthong's picture

“I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.”

-Robert McCloskey

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 09:55 | Link to Comment Horatio Beanblower
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Murphy's Law in action...

 


"Barack gets car stuck at Dublin Embassy May 23rd 2011 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKym-Zi3mOQ

 

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 10:07 | Link to Comment THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

Thanks for that Horatio - farcical just about sums it up - I have not been following events today as when the Irish really get going with their cock sucking it can be  quite disturbing and I feel its best not to watch.

Do those "little people" realise his treasuary secretary has just shafted us for another 30 billion of private debt ?

We were born for the cattle ship me thinks as those people would not know freedom if it bit them in the ass.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxuThNgl3YA

 

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 10:18 | Link to Comment Horatio Beanblower
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I couldn't agree more.  Hoi polloi love bread and circuses, and there is no bigger circus than the Presidential motorcade.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 10:37 | Link to Comment scratch_and_sniff
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Cock sucking, cattle ships and little people, jesus dork lighten up.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 11:58 | Link to Comment THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

Perhaps it was a Bit Much , I am a bad sport.

We might as well enjoy ourselfs.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 15:35 | Link to Comment scratch_and_sniff
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"We might as well enjoy ourselfs."

 

...may aswell, no one's going to do it for ye!

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 15:03 | Link to Comment falak pema
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Just to cheer you up I repost : Leinster! what a team, what a match!

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 10:11 | Link to Comment firefighter302
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Thanks Horatio.. I needed a laugh.

I hope he jarred his back.

 

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 10:14 | Link to Comment Horatio Beanblower
Horatio Beanblower's picture

He would definitely have felt it.  I felt it in Belfast!

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 10:05 | Link to Comment johny2
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Spiegel is rubbish. 

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 10:06 | Link to Comment disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Absolutely amazing story.  Good luck with the press perhaps?  Certainly "believing in God" by giving the interview in the first place..."let alone luck."  My first thought is as usual "is anyone in charge?"  If Mr. Junkers is a confirmed "regionalist" who isn't?  And isn't Greece incredibly smart for not leaving?  The term "cool customer" comes to mind.  I know i have to take great care in disparaging others--one word i try and never use anymore is "dumb."  Still I wonder:  "what is America's role in the European experiment?"  Clearly the goal is a laudable one:  eliminate extreme nationalism once and for all.  For Europe?  The world? Does anyone here think it's "where we're going"?  "Who are we giving our tax money to in the process?" It seems like a similar "class" is winning again--a "bail in" as it were.  But at some point governments matter, non?

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 10:21 | Link to Comment Azannoth
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"We are dealing with largely irrational markets" - Quote of the century! That tells you all you need to know about the level of understanding of Economics from the people who run the world

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 10:23 | Link to Comment zen0
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Juncker: There are few central bankers who are troubled by the notion that we need unanimity on central issues in Europe. But even in times of crisis, we cannot undermine democracy. I completely understand that parliamentarians want to be part of the decision-making process in cases that affect the parliament's budgetary authority.

 

So we allow them to pretend they are.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 10:25 | Link to Comment XRAYD
XRAYD's picture

Wow, who knew the bankers were relying on the ten commandments?

 

Deuteronomy 19:21 Show no pity: life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 10:25 | Link to Comment tellsometruth
tellsometruth's picture

"Europe is run by physcopaths"  I was the only person to do something on a 4 am night bus on friday night near Finnsbury Park when a blonde was being beaten by her large black boyfriend for trying to push his passed out ass up because they were going to miss their stop. He slammed her head up against the bus window with his hand on her throat two seats away from me. I was in shock but it only got worse from their she fought back but he landed blows, I shouted to stop. Nothing happened. After it was apparent none of the men on the full double decker were going to do anything I acted. I ran down stairs banging on the bus drivers window telling him a girl was being beat up.

His first response was "we have close circuit cameras". Neat so when she is dead maybe you will get a conviction? I ran halfway up the stairs to make sure it was going on and oh yess now he had trown her in the eisle and kicking her. I pleaded with the bus driver to stop the bus so we could stop the fight and get the guy off the bus. after another stop he complied. he headed up the stairs with his hand on the knife holder on his belt, but by that time the extreme violence had calmed somewhat as she was not able to get up really. The black bus driver was immediatly able to break through to the asshole and surprisingly he left with out any incident and started walking up the hill towards Manor House Station.

I went back upstairs to see how she was doing. She had a large visible lump on her forehead and a split lip along with some swelling on hear cheeks, I was surprised she was still concious to be honest after all the head trauma she took. Two rather large Irish ladies who were visiting and I got her off the bus, but not before some Asian (when I say asian I mean from India or Pakistan as that is how they are refered to here) jerk was yelling at ME FOR STOPPING THE BUS CAUSE HE "HAS TO WORK IN THE MORNING"  and wanted to get home.  I could not believe it. Dessensitsed to the MAX. Sorry you were incovinced so you did not have to watch a girl beaten to death on ride home and had to wait 5-10 minutes for me to convince the bus driver to stop the bus so we could get the monster off. I shouted at him "Are you HUMAN!????" He got offended and stood up and yelled shit back, but that is all I wanted to say.

She apparently lived with her abbusive boyfriend and would have gone home with them, but  we insisted she have an ambulence check her out and go somewhere else as she was going into shock.

It took about 20-30 minutes for the police to show up which surprised me since I see them constanly with here and another 10 minutes longer for the ambulance.

While waiting she broke down saying it was not the first time and that her good friend had told her parents recently that this guy was abussive. She very much wanted to call her parents but they were on Holiday as they say here. She sobbed "why does he do this to me, I love him!"  The Irish women rightly repeated many times she needed to move on and make this the last time. As I sat there with my arm around her as she cried wearing my jacket split lip I think she came to a realisation that it was wrong what had happened. Where in the begining she did not want "to cause drama"

When the ambulance got there she got in and did not come out. One of the Irish ladies got in with her and when she came out before it left she said they thought she had a serious concusion. I was busy describing the situation to one of the officers along with the perp and my disgust for the willingess of the herd to keep in line during something so obviously wrong.

 

Now this won't sour me on London but just confirms what I already know: big cities desensitize.

I refuse to not act when I see something that wrong.

 

please whether in your professional life or personal life do the same

 

 

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 10:28 | Link to Comment XRAYD
XRAYD's picture

Wow, who knew the bankers were relying on the ten commandments?

 

Deuteronomy 19:21 Show no pity: life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 10:30 | Link to Comment zaknick
zaknick's picture

People: Real Democracy Now!

Bankster: Sometimes in politics you must tell people: Stop, it doesn't work this way!

Banksters' rulez, bitchez!

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 10:34 | Link to Comment JR
JR's picture

How Machiavellian – to lie for the greater good.  As they see the greater good, of course.  Not as it actually is.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 10:36 | Link to Comment Amish Hacker
Amish Hacker's picture

Junker lets the cat out of the bag when he admits that "insisting on regulatory principles" will "blow up the global financial system." That's the basic problem. We can't allow true price discovery, we can't accept Greek default, because to do so would unleash a hell storm of cascading derivative events. So instead of accepting the obvious truth that Greece is broke, let's all agree on some new parameters for Let's Pretend, and we'll call it "soft restructuring" instead of "default." That way, the derivative monster stays in its cage for a little longer.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 10:36 | Link to Comment slewie the pi-rat
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The government bureaucracy is bloated and needs to be reduced in size.

fifty years from now, i doodoo believe that the people who are left breathing will see this as the root cause of the greatest insanity the world has ever known, whatever they call it, at that point. 

jean-claude nannyjunkster enjoys the projection (it is somebody else's goobermint which is too nanny-bloated with bureaucrats), then gets to the defense of his own pet love:   But it is true that the achievements of European integration are being questioned for short-term political reasons. People have been asked to accept quite a few changes in the last 20 years, from globalization to the reorganization of Europe. If we do not structure the European project in such a way that people can accept it, we run the risk that it will fail.

so, we lie.  we pretend that you can't handle truth, but it is the liars who cannot handle truth. 

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 11:06 | Link to Comment gwar5
gwar5's picture

Nailed it good pi-rat.

Solution to the excessive cost of bureaucracy is not more bureaucracy (socialism). Privatize the debt and bureaucracy, bitchezz.

And Juncker doesn't say they need to make the banks take on their own risks giving the sovereign people less risk and more say. He merely suggests they might need to restructure in a way that the people will be fooled better into accepting the current arrangement of allowing themselves to get screwed.

 

 

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 10:42 | Link to Comment gwar5
gwar5's picture

I found the interview pretty disturbing. It confirms the sum of all fears and will make longs in tinfoil hats rich. Juncker confirms central bankers:

--Lie and manipulate markets and investors because it's investors that are 'irriational' and must be kept on the plantation somehow

--says his/CB convictions are against privatized profits for the banks, and socialization of the losses paid by the people, However, "we must be careful not to blow up the financial system based on (regulatory) principles."  Er...Huh?

--sees those same sovereign countries, their parliaments, and their respective peoples who are paying the tab for the banks as just an annoying and inconsequential impediment to the banker's ongoing criminal enterprise: "If you want to have a conversation with the people you must stand in their path and say: STOP. It does not work this way." Juncker

--confirms that the EU project has rendered European democracy a complete sham. The banks control all policy and they'll never let it go, willingly.

--seeks increasing privatization in Greece as the way to save money -- which is an admission that socialism is an economic model that doesn't work (unless you're Norway, which has oil to subsidize it). 

--confirms the ECB strategy is to screw one PIIG at a time, and their peoples, to prevent the PIIGS from ganging up and declaring default at the same time and putting it to the banks.

--Der Spiegel confirms there are better journalists in Europe than the USA

 

Also confirms Farage's scathing speech to the EU was exactly right:  "Just who do you people think you are? You're very, very dangerous people indeed!" 

 

 

 

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 11:19 | Link to Comment zen0
zen0's picture

Isn't it one of the principles of the illuminati that at some point, in some way, they must openly admit what they are up to?

Most people miss it anyway.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 15:06 | Link to Comment falak pema
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Farage loves to rant and has only one solution : lets go back to being 'hobbits'. Pipe dream as now we're in a global world.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 12:26 | Link to Comment dcb
dcb's picture

since they defne harm as vested banker interests, he is correct. Of course he does not define them as the people of greece, ireland, spain, etc. Those people aren't really human.

since they didn't fix the market after the financial crisis, the rule is always don't do anything to spook the market, which means bankers can never be allowed to loose from their poor investment decisions. Same works for the fed. At least he is honest enough to admit the lie, we have bernanke who won't admit it, is almost always wrong by definition, and gets away with it in front of the media, congress, etc.

He may believe he is telling the truth, but then he needs to be institutionalized.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 13:05 | Link to Comment dcb
dcb's picture

time for a two day short swueeze rally, allowing the big boys to dump higher (LOL).

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 13:22 | Link to Comment halodoc
halodoc's picture

Two things that stood out for me:

Juncker: The United States and Japan also have high debt levels, and yet no one would claim that those countries are bankrupt.

SPIEGEL: But Japan and the United States have their own currencies, which they can devalue, if necessary.

Our currency is being devalued, that is why we are saying we are bankrupt, yes?

And...

Juncker: So far, no European taxpayer has had to pay a cent for the rescue of debt-ridden euro countries...

Huh. No shit? Well then, just who the hell is paying for it? The U.S. taxpayer?

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 15:05 | Link to Comment falak pema
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No! China, and all credit surplus and trade surplus countries!

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 15:21 | Link to Comment Dolemite
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http://deadcatbouncing.blogspot.com/

 

Euro rally off of 1.39 support

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 16:33 | Link to Comment bank guy in Brussels
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That is an absolutely disgusting perverted name for your blog ... humour about the sufferings and death of animals, is about as low as it gets.

Please do not show that sick-named link of yours again.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!