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Jim DeMint's Q&A With Zimbabwe Ben

Tyler Durden's picture





 

With a whole lot of posturing in the Senate today, long-winded monologues, and propaganda, there was little actual coherent Q&A with the Chairman. Which is why the segment below with Senator DeMint (courtesy of Austrian Filter), is quite valuable, as the South Carolina Republican asks so many of the right questions which his colleagues seem to believe they know the answer to (hint: you don't). Bernanke's responses, of course, leave much to be desired, but at least he is on the record with his arrogant evasiveness.

 

 

 


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Thu, 12/03/2009 - 18:50 | Link to Comment faustian bargain
faustian bargain's picture

I'm going to pass this around, people need to see it.

Thu, 12/03/2009 - 18:56 | Link to Comment VegasBD
VegasBD's picture

And Bunning's rape of him also...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVaDzDcwZGg

Thu, 12/03/2009 - 20:42 | Link to Comment Lonewar
Lonewar's picture

Lets see if I have my fact right on AIG.

AIG had paid the collateral calls on its outstanding CDS' that were caused by the reduction of value of the underlying CDO's. This caused the credit rating agencies to down-grade AIG from its AAA status which in turn caused more collateral calls that were based on AIG's credit rating. It was only after the credit rating agencies downgraded AIG that the Fed had to step in and offer AIG a bail-out because of the new collateral calls.

Assuming the above facts are correct, I dont understand why the bail-out cost the American taxpayers more than $1.00.

The Federal Reserve, as the printing press of America should have a AAA credit rating, being based on the credit rating of the underlying entity of the United States of America. Therefore the Federal Reserve should have offered to BUY AIG's CDS contracts and the collateral already paid for $1.00. This then places those contracts back onto the balance sheet of an entity with a AAA credit rating which means the additional collateral needed based on the lowered credit rating of the issuing company is no longer needed, and thus $185 Billion of tax pay money is no longer at risk.

Am I reading this right?

Yes, the above is a serious question as finance and economics were not my major.

Thu, 12/03/2009 - 22:14 | Link to Comment Apocalypse Now
Apocalypse Now's picture

Good point, the government could have just backstopped AIG (as they did) instead of paying out gambling tickets that really did not even hedge risks.  But they wanted to give their cronies billions of dollars instead.  It really is that simple.

Ironically, they were not consistent and did not allow pay outs on SRS and other similar shorts (similar to the debt CDS but on equities) when they decided to change accounting rules and support CRE equities.

Fri, 12/04/2009 - 00:21 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 12/03/2009 - 22:40 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 12/03/2009 - 23:21 | Link to Comment Dr o love
Dr o love's picture

What irritates the shi* out of me is that Bunning, like Ron Paul, cannot utter one complete coherent sentence.  He stumbles all over himself reading a prepared speech.  How hard is that???  He speaks the truth but unintelligibly so.

Fri, 12/04/2009 - 00:24 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 12/03/2009 - 22:10 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Fri, 12/04/2009 - 02:59 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 12/03/2009 - 18:55 | Link to Comment VegasBD
VegasBD's picture

Love the last two seconds. "Chairman Bernanski...."

what effin senator is that who doesnt even know how to spell mugabee ben's last name? jesus

Thu, 12/03/2009 - 19:02 | Link to Comment faustian bargain
faustian bargain's picture

that's Akaka from Hawaii. I couldn't even listen to him talk.

Thu, 12/03/2009 - 18:56 | Link to Comment AnonymousMonetarist
AnonymousMonetarist's picture

Bloomberg runs on its crawl, Zimbabwe : 'We will take a long time to reintroduce currency' right before Demint starts askin' 'do you believe money is an instrument of government to be manipulated...

 

 

Thu, 12/03/2009 - 18:58 | Link to Comment faustian bargain
faustian bargain's picture

6:04 - [the Fed is] "an agency of the government."

Thu, 12/03/2009 - 20:55 | Link to Comment deadhead
deadhead's picture

yes, what was that??

maybe it depends on what the definition of "is" is

Thu, 12/03/2009 - 22:21 | Link to Comment Apocalypse Now
Apocalypse Now's picture

Then why did they refuse a FOIA request with the response that they were not subject to the FOIA because they were a private entity?

Thu, 12/03/2009 - 22:30 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 12/03/2009 - 22:54 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Fri, 12/04/2009 - 00:56 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 12/03/2009 - 19:00 | Link to Comment Stevm30
Stevm30's picture

"I think that as evidenced by the fact that every major country in the world has a central bank, and uses monetary policy.  I think that's the system that we have determined is the most effective at this point."

I haven't determined that Ben.  Don't include me in that "we".

Lord Acton: "The issue which has swept down the centuries and which will have to be fought sooner or later is the people versus the banks."

 

Thu, 12/03/2009 - 19:03 | Link to Comment faustian bargain
faustian bargain's picture

Ben was back on his heels at that point. I would've liked to have seen another 30 minutes of Demint grilling him...BB would've started crying.

Thu, 12/03/2009 - 19:03 | Link to Comment koaj
koaj's picture

i will rout you out like the den of vipers that you are - andrew jackson

 

Thu, 12/03/2009 - 19:21 | Link to Comment Careless Whisper
Careless Whisper's picture

Love the headline at the bottom of the screen: "Zimbabwe Progressing..."

Thu, 12/03/2009 - 19:34 | Link to Comment ghostfaceinvestah
ghostfaceinvestah's picture

Decent questions, but he didn't hit hard enough.

For how much longer is he going to prop up Fannie and Freddie?

What does he think is going to happen if/when he stops buying Fannie/Freddie MBS?

Will he actually stop in March like he promises?

What plans does he actually have to sell the MBS he has accumulated?

This is never going to stop, guaranteed when March rolls around Geithner will try to resurrect Fannie/Freddie in essentially their current form, and Bernanke will keep buying their MBS.

I will keep holding on the my gold, thank you very much.  The USD is toast.

Fri, 12/04/2009 - 00:35 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 12/03/2009 - 19:44 | Link to Comment aaronvelasquez
aaronvelasquez's picture

I think Ben and Tim really don't know what to do.  They were trained to believe in systems and scenarios that aren't reflected in the current state of affairs.

Thu, 12/03/2009 - 21:15 | Link to Comment Howard_Beale
Howard_Beale's picture

When one is stuck in the confines of an outdated system, they are the last to know. We are truly in a new world--East dominating West--which is a shift this country has never endured. It's the end of a cycle and the new one will born in pain.

 

Fri, 12/04/2009 - 00:59 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 12/03/2009 - 19:44 | Link to Comment Sancho Panza
Sancho Panza's picture

What if...

What if, in 1980, the Fed's mandate had been changed from (A) balancing maximum employment with inflation to (B) maintaining a constant level of total credit outstanding (government, corporate, financial, household) within a safe band and not allowing total debt to grow to 365% of GDP?

What if, because of that policy, Americans had been incentivized to save more of their earnings?

What if, because of that policy, Americans were not misled to have consumed more than they had produced, for 30 years, due to unnaturally low interest rates?

What if, because of that policy, American jobs had not been increasingly off-shored for 30 years, as Americans would have been kept honest with regards to having to produce as much as they consume?

What if, as a consequence of this policy, we weren't faced with debt/GDP of 370% today?

What if Washington was not owned by Wall Street?

What if Bernanke told the truth?

What if pigs could fly?

Thu, 12/03/2009 - 19:51 | Link to Comment faustian bargain
faustian bargain's picture

What if people realized that economies can't be 'managed' without destroying them?

What if the Congress disbanded the Federal Reserve System and gave the market back its gold standard?

etc.

Thu, 12/03/2009 - 20:00 | Link to Comment Sancho Panza
Sancho Panza's picture

I'm a fan of libertarian ideology.  I've been reading Mises extensively.  The world would certainly be a better place if every nation could adopt such policies.  But I'm not convinced that libertarian policies are practical for a single nation state in the world we live, or if they would have been practical in 1980.

Thanks for your comment.  I'd enjoy an intelligent discussion about the limits and inevitable impacts of government.  

Thu, 12/03/2009 - 20:05 | Link to Comment lookma
lookma's picture

But I'm not convinced that libertarian policies are practical for a single nation state in the world we live, or if they would have been practical in 1980.

Perhaps, but it may be "more impratical" to have a system that is inherently doomed to collapse and is ripe for the looting on the way down.


Thu, 12/03/2009 - 20:17 | Link to Comment Sancho Panza
Sancho Panza's picture

Indeed.

Thu, 12/03/2009 - 20:37 | Link to Comment Glaucus
Thu, 12/03/2009 - 20:47 | Link to Comment Sancho Panza
Sancho Panza's picture

I'm familiar with the theory.  Allow me to play devil's advocate.  I don't know where this will go, if anywhere.

What if we had gone on the gold standard in 1980...  We allow our markets to realize a natural interest rate.  Our government no longer controls our monetary policy.  All is well and good.

Now, if you are some high level war strategist in the former Soviet Union, how could you use this to your advantage?  

Fri, 12/04/2009 - 00:40 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Fri, 12/04/2009 - 01:27 | Link to Comment faustian bargain
faustian bargain's picture

To what extent did we (the US) help to actually create the Soviet Union via consequences of our policies? Since we're playing the alternate history game, I would suggest 1980 is a suboptimal starting point for reinstating the gold standard.

Although it does illustrate the tar pit of consequence we've sunk into.

Thu, 12/03/2009 - 22:29 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Fri, 12/04/2009 - 20:02 | Link to Comment Sancho Panza
Sancho Panza's picture

Thanks! 

I'm literally in awe.  So its either outright incompetence by both Greenspan and Bernanke, or something far more sinister.

To think, all the Fed would have had to have done to avoid the disaster we are facing, was to have followed its own mandate.

Thu, 12/03/2009 - 19:51 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 12/03/2009 - 20:20 | Link to Comment AN0NYM0US
AN0NYM0US's picture

the best was the Jekyll Island comment from Senator Bunning

Thu, 12/03/2009 - 20:20 | Link to Comment slickrock
slickrock's picture

What a flippin idiot Zimbabwe Ben is.  If I ever had an annual review like that one I'd be out in a flash.

Thu, 12/03/2009 - 20:39 | Link to Comment Shameful
Shameful's picture

I doubt that.  Could you really walk away from a job where you can literally make money out of thin air and give it to yourself and you're buddies?  Shit being Fed Chairman is my dream job! I can see it now...

"Hey Shameful, I bet Amzn would hit 250 and lost my shirt can I have a few billion in exchange for these worthless options?"

"Of course bro!  We hitting Vegas this weekend?  I got to give the economy some liquidity injections"

You couldn't get me out of that job without dragging me out the door kicking and screaming!

Thu, 12/03/2009 - 21:14 | Link to Comment slickrock
slickrock's picture

By being 'out' I meant that I'd be fired.  If the other senators can't see the horrific job he has done as measured by the goals that Z.B. set for himself then they should all be fired.  Well most of them should be anyway, but that is a different thread.

Thu, 12/03/2009 - 21:54 | Link to Comment Shameful
Shameful's picture

Oh I agree he should be fired at the minimum.  By any yardstick Zimbabwe Ben is a complete failure.  I could make random babbling statements in my sleep and be a better market forecaster. He's clearly a crook and charlatan and not even a convincing one.

I'm quite sure most of the senators or their "advisers" are well aware with the horrible beating he is giving America.  The question is do they care?  After all they are going to get theirs. 

Hell I'm waiting for Uncle Ben to drop the line "Well you know a new Fed Chairman right now could cause instability in the dollar market..." or "Debating my reappointment makes me angry...you wouldn't like me when I'm angry!".  Openly engage in a little financial terrorism.  If it's good enough for Hank Paulson then it's good enough for Bernake.

Thu, 12/03/2009 - 22:41 | Link to Comment Dburn
Dburn's picture

"You wouldn't like me when I'm angry"

HAHAHAHA

Surprised he didn't have some Queeg like little balls to crunch together in his right hand while he had his hand on a Stables like button called "I am Shiva..."

Thu, 12/03/2009 - 20:42 | Link to Comment Lexington Duffet
Lexington Duffet's picture

Demint's Lead in--all the republican talking points, refusing to take any responsibility.  Claims failures in system based on Fed.  Really?  How did the Fed force Mozillo to ramp up a phony loan program?  Or force Lehman, Bear Stearns and AIG to make really stupid bets?

This is the Republican blame the others and hide the truth strategy.  Like Ben or not, this mistelling of reality is bad for the country.

Look at Demint's question #1-- Federal reserve does not regulate.  Actually, that is the Senate\Congress's job.  Not the Feds and not Bernanke.

Demint knows that. 

As B points at the end, Fed raised the questions for year.  Regulators did not act.  1998, they repealed rules which would have limited the damage we've seen in the last 2 years.

Hate Ben and the other policy wogs for truthful reasons if at all.

 

From Wikipedia on Demint:

"DeMint was ranked by National Journal as the most conservative United States Senator in their March, 2007 conservative/liberal rankings,[3] and again in 2008.[4]

DeMint's main work has been opposing the increase of Federal government spending, both under the Bush and Obama Administrations. He was opposed to federal bailouts for banks and other corporations. For his stances on budgetary issues, DeMint has been strongly supported by the fiscally conservative political group Club for Growth.

He has been a consistent supporter of school sponsored prayer and has introduced legislation that would allow schools to display banners reading "God Bless America".[5]

DeMint favors banning all forms of abortion even in cases of rape and incest.[6]

DeMint endorsed Republican Presidential Candidate Mitt Romney.

In the Senate, DeMint introduced an amendment aimed at weakening the Sarbanes-Oxley corporate accountability legislation; this amendment failed to become law.

On the issue of immigration, DeMint favors requiring all illegal immigrants currently in the United States to return to their home countries to apply for legal reinstatement. He is also against the Guest Worker program and is in favor of establishing English as the country's official language.

On February 6, 2008 Jim DeMint was joined by Saxby Chambliss, Tom Coburn, John Cornyn, James Inhofe, and David Vitter in the Senate to introduce the Semper Fi Act of 2008 which would strip federal funding from Berkeley, California in response to the Berkeley Marine Corps Recruiting Center controversy.[7] The bill would have stripped $2.1 million in earmarks for the city and the University of California, Berkeley and would have instead directed the funds to the Marine Corps Recruiting Fund. His actions were reprimanded by both the House and Senate leadership as divisive and unnecessary. His bill was defeated by a 74-25 vote.

In 2009, DeMint introduced an amendment to a multi-billion dollar economic stimulus bill that would have prohibited lawmakers from using any percentage of transportation funds on bicycle, walking, or wilderness trails. [8] Additionally, DeMint opposed the whole bill.

DeMint was one of two Senators, along with David Vitter, to vote against Hillary Clinton's confirmation to become the United States Secretary of State.

DeMint went to Honduras in 2009, and met with de facto president Roberto Micheletti, who was installed after the coup. The White House has explicitly banned meetings with the current leaders. The United States (along with every other country) officially views ousted president Manuel Zelaya as the legitimately elected president.[9]

In 2009, DeMint authored a book entitled Saving Freedom: We Can Stop America's Slide into Socialism (Fidelis, Nashville, 2009)."

Opposing spending--I'm on board.  But I find it really weird that Demint is against bycycles.  That is bizarre.  They may not work everywhere but those who've seen Holland see how well they can work, at least in some places.  

    

   

Thu, 12/03/2009 - 20:46 | Link to Comment ghostfaceinvestah
ghostfaceinvestah's picture

"Look at Demint's question #1-- Federal reserve does not regulate.  Actually, that is the Senate\Congress's job."

Really, Congress is supposed to act as a bank regulator?

That is news to me, or just about anyone else in the country.

Thu, 12/03/2009 - 20:47 | Link to Comment Stevm30
Stevm30's picture

What's bizarre is you saying he's "against bycycles" when he's actually against federal funding of bicycles.  That's bizarre.

Thu, 12/03/2009 - 21:21 | Link to Comment Howard_Beale
Howard_Beale's picture

Listen up Lex, this is not about party affiliation anymore here at ZH. We are a mixed bag of Dems, Repubs, Libs, Nothings, and even a socialist or two. DeMint asked excellent questions and Ben was stuck with one sentence answers.

And there is not a congressman or senator that you could not pull up lots of dirt on. They are all bought and sold--except maybe perhaps and hopefully, Ron Paul.

Thu, 12/03/2009 - 22:24 | Link to Comment Catullus
Catullus's picture

Yawn. Ad hominem attacks are so boring.

You're against the spending but not against the things government spends the money on. That's very principled of you.

Reading zeyala election is a fascinating read into western interventionalism.

Thu, 12/03/2009 - 23:03 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 12/03/2009 - 20:46 | Link to Comment whacked
whacked's picture

rofl ... last seconds from Senator Cocker .........."Chairman Bernanski ... "... love your senators !!

 

then at the 2.23 minute mark .. bernanke "... we found some mistakes and we tried to improve them."   rofl .. so he fund mistakes and tried to make them worse ...

 

Look this is obviously a foregone conclusion. Read between the lines peoples, Bernanke has had separate discussions with the majority of the detractors in the Senate .. he anticipated all of the questions and already had pre-made answers. Not one of your senators has Q&A grilled the bloke ... I doubt Warner Bros could have done a better job is staging this whole situation ...

 

 

Thu, 12/03/2009 - 20:52 | Link to Comment JohnKing
JohnKing's picture

We'll see how DeMint votes..methinks it's just theatre.

Thu, 12/03/2009 - 21:02 | Link to Comment JohnKing
JohnKing's picture

OK, have to eat my words on that last post.

DeMint Says He Will Oppose Bernanke Nomination
Senator pledges to hold nomination until the Senate votes on the Fed Audit
 
December 3, 2009 - WASHINGTON, D.C. - Today, U.S. Senator Jim DeMint (R-South Carolina), chairman of the Senate Steering Committee, announced this morning that he will oppose the nomination of Ben Bernanke to serve a second term as the chairman of the Federal Reserve Board.

http://demint.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=PressReleases.Detai...

Thu, 12/03/2009 - 21:22 | Link to Comment Howard_Beale
Howard_Beale's picture

Hope your dinner of words was tasty...and thanks for redeeming yourself.

Fri, 12/04/2009 - 00:30 | Link to Comment JohnKing
JohnKing's picture

ahhh...I'm still not all that sure it isn't theatre but it does sound like he won't be voting for Benny. The senate is a club, very exclusive and very connected, I don't trust any of them.

Thu, 12/03/2009 - 21:08 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Fri, 12/04/2009 - 05:05 | Link to Comment Apocalypse Now
Apocalypse Now's picture

That is the key - it doesn't matter who they put in, it's a system, but the audit the fed bill must be pushed through before approving appointment.

Thu, 12/03/2009 - 21:04 | Link to Comment Kayman
Kayman's picture

In Bloomberg, on the topic of how (or whether) to deal with asset bubbles, Helicopter Ben states" it is inherently difficult to know if asset prices are appropriate or correctly valued".

 Well, duh... when by edict, devoid of any connection to a free market, the cost of borrowing is reduced to zero, by the Fed, what the hell else is going to happen to (some or all) assets, when the annointed "systemic risk" friends of the Fed start playing games.

Maybe a simple test could be, "when your mind wanders into describing assets in terms of irrational exuberance then it might be time to do your job and take the punch bowl away.

By dumping private losses (from unchecked greed and unethical/criminal conduct) onto the overloaded American taxpayer, through their friends at the Treasury and the Fed, these slimy bastards have once again shown who controls the Fed and the political system.

The only thing that will save America this time is to have the voters kick out every Senator and Representative (Republican or Democrat) November next year.

 

Thu, 12/03/2009 - 21:34 | Link to Comment Howard_Beale
Howard_Beale's picture

Regarding your last sentence, I don't think that would do a thing unless we changed the system completely. We're a few years away from that because massive change only comes from devastation. You want change? How about kicking out the lobbyists of every ilk forever from interacting with any part of the government? Shoot the whole lot of them.  How about 50% + reserve requirements for banks? Even in 1929 the reserve requirements were 22% and they ran the banks anyway. How about a new model altogether with no Fed?

Collectively, with the brainpower we at ZH possess, we could come up with a new system that is far more efficacious and for and by the people. Forget this system, Kayman. It's broken.  

Thu, 12/03/2009 - 22:03 | Link to Comment deadhead
deadhead's picture

see Geo. Washington's article just posted.

 

highlight: "DeMint tweets: “I will oppose Bernanke and hold his nomination until we get a vote to audit the Fed.”

http://twitter.com/JimDeMint/statuses/6315878082

Thu, 12/03/2009 - 22:19 | Link to Comment Howard_Beale
Howard_Beale's picture

Tweets are sweet....Kix are for kids..Let's make some noise!

Thu, 12/03/2009 - 22:09 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 12/03/2009 - 22:10 | Link to Comment Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture
Oh clue train sounding louder
Glide on the clue train
Come on now clue train
Yes, clue train holy roller

Everyone jump upon the clue train
Come on now clue train

Get your bags together,
go bring your good friends too
Cause it's getting nearer,
it soon will be with you
Thu, 12/03/2009 - 22:16 | Link to Comment Andrei Vyshinsky
Andrei Vyshinsky's picture

More than anything, today’s confirmation hearings make clear one thing about Ben Bernanke: He missed his calling by become an economist. Bernanke would have been far more suitably employed as a mortician, wearing non-descript gray suits and passing on meaningless condolances to the bereaved family. One can almost hear him offering assurances sotto voce concerning his best efforts with the appearance of the deceased. “But, Mrs. Roland, Harry’s upper lip would have looked even more waxy if we hadn’t injected the more expensive embalming fluid.”

Hat’s off to the the questioning of Jim Bunning who missed nothing in his indictment of Bernanke. Perhaps they’ll trot him out to do the people’s Andrei Vyshinsky to Bernanke’s Bukharin when the show trials begin.

Fri, 12/04/2009 - 00:44 | Link to Comment Cistercian
Cistercian's picture

 Bernanke as mortician....you totally nailed it.He just oozes artifice and faux humanity.

 Epic post!

Fri, 12/04/2009 - 05:42 | Link to Comment Apocalypse Now
Apocalypse Now's picture

He is employed as a mortician, of the dollar, guaranteeing the funerals of savers.

Thu, 12/03/2009 - 22:52 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 12/03/2009 - 23:05 | Link to Comment Michael
Michael's picture

Funny how only the best Senators and Congressmen asking the tough questions get Youtube top rated videos stored on hard drives all over the world.

Thu, 12/03/2009 - 23:08 | Link to Comment saladbarbeef
saladbarbeef's picture

Bernanke will resign to fall on the Obama's reform sword. Wait for the press conference where the teleprompter announces it "backs Bernanke 110%" before you take down the Bernanke CDOs.  

Let's annoint Blankfein the next Fed Chair.  Just drop any pretense of objectivity. Heck, no need to change the business cards. 

Remember, CONGRESS is the only entity authorized to establish the monetary system. (Art 1, Secs 8 & 10, of the Federal Constitution.) It's not SUPPOSED to be "independent" and out of control.

Fri, 12/04/2009 - 01:39 | Link to Comment faustian bargain
faustian bargain's picture

Nor is it supposed to involve fiat money.

Thu, 12/03/2009 - 23:08 | Link to Comment reading
reading's picture

Sounds like DeMint has been reading many of the posts here...

Thu, 12/03/2009 - 23:34 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 12/03/2009 - 23:51 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Fri, 12/04/2009 - 06:53 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Fri, 12/04/2009 - 07:59 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 12/03/2009 - 23:54 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Fri, 12/04/2009 - 01:44 | Link to Comment faustian bargain
faustian bargain's picture

I think the claim about financial crises while on the gold standard deserves more scrutiny. I'm not saying there weren't crises, but they need to be more closely examined and compared to the many deep and long crises we've had while on 'managed' fiat money.

Fri, 12/04/2009 - 04:54 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Fri, 12/04/2009 - 00:22 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Fri, 12/04/2009 - 01:59 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Fri, 12/04/2009 - 14:28 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Fri, 12/04/2009 - 02:09 | Link to Comment Anonymous
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