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Jim Grant On Inflation: "There Will Be A Lot Of It Suddenly" Because Our Interest Rate Structure Is "Beyond Strange"

Tyler Durden's picture





 

One of our favorite economic commentators - Jim Grant of Grant's Interest Rate Observer - was on Consuelo Mack continuing his ongoing crusade against Ben Bernanke's lunacy, and the monetary central planning of the Federal Reserve, particularly focusing on the topic of pernicious inflation which for good reason has received much attention of the past year. Grant, who unlike Steve Liesman correctly observes that inflation is now rampant (those who need a reminder can do so at the only objective source for actual inflation tracking, MIT's Billion Price Index), is eating away at the standard of living of the bulk of the population, even as this same population can not benefit from anything beyond minimal rates on their saving deposits. "The Fed is unconscionably complacent about the consequences of what it is doing, and let us not blink at what it is doing: it has imposed the lowest money market interest rates anyone remembers, it has expanded its balance sheet into something grotesque all in the space of a couple of years. These are monetary events that have never before been seen, and indeed, never before imagined...The Fed's policies are certainly great for one class of society: the speculative classes.... We have socialized risk, we have privatized gains, much to the relief of Greenwich, CT where our zillionaires live, and the unconscionable and indefensible fallout of this is that savers get zero on their savings balances, and the speculative classes get to borrow in wholesale markets at zero and get to make their zillions all over again... The Chairman is whistling by the graveyard in this manner of 2% inflation rate being harmless." On Grant's expectations for inflation rates: "there will be a lot of suddenly - 4 or 5% let us say...So much of our speculative apparatus is powered on these zero percent interest rates... Think how hard it is to hold back a cash reserve in this economy... Your stupid neighbor who is watching this program is making a lot fo money in the stock market: how hard is it not to participate? You can't do it... But 4% inflation would mean that the party is over... Everything would fall out of bed... Gold and silver would right themselves, because they are money that would come into their own at the end of the cycle of disillusionment but for a time there would be terrific chaos in investment markets."

As for the gold standard: "If I am right about the dynamics of the Federal debt, not only is the mathematics for a gold standard compelling but so are the politics." In other words, and this should be no surprise to anyone, the transition to real money will continue until the fraud that is unbacked fiat is finally eliminated, with or without the Fed's support.

 


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Sat, 04/16/2011 - 13:24 | Link to Comment Rodent Freikorps
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Why do finance guys always look like zombies?

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 13:32 | Link to Comment Kickaha
Kickaha's picture

Not true.  A lot of them look like vampires.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 13:58 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

Nouriel Roubini certainly has his Count Chocula accent down pat.

As for Jon Nadler, he was actually born and raised in Transylvania --- need I say more?

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 17:18 | Link to Comment Cheyenne
Cheyenne's picture

Count Chocula. That made me spit out some beer. Awesome.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 19:22 | Link to Comment the mad hatter
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I always thought Jim Grant looks like Bill Nye the Science Guy.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 22:45 | Link to Comment UninterestedObserver
UninterestedObserver's picture

Fuck I thought he was Bill Nye using a pseudonym

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 02:40 | Link to Comment IslandMan
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I kinda think he looks like Christopher Reeve playing Clark Kent.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 00:55 | Link to Comment TheGoodDoctor
TheGoodDoctor's picture

True that or that Matthew whatever his name is dancing around in the question mark suit touting government grants. Either way.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 02:26 | Link to Comment blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Lesko.  I actually ran into that dude a couple years back on 40th st.  He actually wears those suits ALL THE TIME.  And even though I'm never serious, I'm not even joking about that shit.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 14:04 | Link to Comment Thomas
Thomas's picture

Eric King (Robot Trader's love interest) did a James Grant interview this weekend also...

http://www.kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/Broadcast/Broadcast.html

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 14:12 | Link to Comment Infinite QE
Infinite QE's picture

Heh heh!

Ole RobotFader hasn't been shilling for his guru Tom "I ain't gotta clue" O'Brien recently. The commission checks must have bounced! LOL!

 

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 14:29 | Link to Comment redpill
redpill's picture

Slightly OT:  Would one think that underwater American homeowners would be morally justified in walking away from their properties if the large banks do the same thing to their own creditors?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/15/us-morgan-stanley-real-estate-...

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 14:39 | Link to Comment Infinite QE
Infinite QE's picture

Morality and America seemed to have parted company some time back. It's everyone for themselves now. Not sure if this is good or bad. Just is.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 17:45 | Link to Comment Poundsand
Poundsand's picture

Moral hazard?  I think closer to along the lines of Nuclear Hazard. Is it any surprise that MStanley would walk away from a $3.3 billion dollar mortgage on a building that is loosing tenants as we speak?

Earthquakes now almost daily.... check!

Poor wind conditions mean your tenants have to hold their breath.... check!

National economy in a tailspin that hasn't even begun to be understood yet....check!

Good decision to walk away before throwing good money after bad.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 19:00 | Link to Comment The Profit Prophet
The Profit Prophet's picture

To answer your question.....it's bad.....VERY BAD.

T.E.I.N. everyone!

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 14:53 | Link to Comment eatthebanksters
eatthebanksters's picture

It's truly ironic that the same TBTF banks complain about the moral hazard of strategic defaulting while they won't discuss the moral hazard of making irresponsible and reckless loans that wrecked our economy (with other peoples money).  Nor will they discuss the settlements they are making for their criminal activities at 5 and 10 cents on the dollar.  Seriously, I would have no problem with a Stalinist type purge of the criminal element of the TBTF banks, the regulators who did not do their jobs and the executives of the ratings agencies who were bought.  The criminals of the system are living in luxury at the expense of the masses whom they defrauded (and continue to defraud).  While I normally don't condone violence, I would not shed a tear if thousands of these fuckers were lined up and shot.  (And I'm a conservative...I just don't like crony capitalism and criminal behavior).

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 15:30 | Link to Comment Natasha Fatale
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Mme Defarge has taken up her knitting. She sits quietly, observing, waiting...

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 17:21 | Link to Comment Rastadamus
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Mme Defarge, I need a drink......

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 20:27 | Link to Comment sleepingbeauty
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+1

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 02:50 | Link to Comment slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

we have the best of times;  we have the worst of times. 

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 20:58 | Link to Comment Eyes on the World
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+1000.  I'm quoting on my "Other People's Words" blog entry today.  Nicely done.

Eyes

http://lunchtime-leftovers.blogspot.com/

 

 

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 21:20 | Link to Comment Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture

As long as you demand justice (and rightly so) don't forget Dodd, Waters, Pelosi, Obama and Bawney who all swore Freddie and Fannie were fit as fiddles as stymied regulation of them.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 05:32 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

Another party troll...  And don't forget WMDs in Iraq!  Yeah, while we sit here and piss and moan about virtual BS there's people fucking dying because of our "leaders'" BS.

I'm so fucking tired of this childish party shit.  Yeah, just fucking pretend that it would be all so much better if <insert your master's party> were in "control."

Disclaimer: I'm an equal opportunity disliker of all govts.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 14:59 | Link to Comment Ironmaan
Ironmaan's picture

So instead of agreeing with the facts as he laid out, you attack him as a partisan? Ole Bawwnney Fwank said many times there was nothing wrong with Freddie or Fannie all the while pushing for higher and higher home ownership rates.

If you disagree with his point fine, make your case but why point the finger at the republicans. Seems your the childish partisan.
http://guerillatics.com

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 15:57 | Link to Comment Piranhanoia
Piranhanoia's picture

The assumption of home "owner" is valid, but to walk because banky says so is bankyfecespeaky and invalid. Let banky prove it using law.  No chance of this.

you own?, don't pay. banky claim you owe?  don't pay. banky make noise, don't pay. banky acts, make them pay.   Got to understand, banky sold everything 3 times to fools, once to gubment.  been paid 7 times with insurance.

 

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 15:14 | Link to Comment Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Don't miss the Pento interview too.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 16:43 | Link to Comment gangland
gangland's picture

 i was never into dues w newsletters, eventho, i sucked off of them, like i do on zh actually and off of some of you all, which i must say thank you, not you harry or robofagboy, operationmetalgear fuk boys, but..... that wasnt the main message.

 

so the reason i know certain peeps are YES trying to make a living BUT are not Geithner or soros vampires, gs, dimon et al, whatever the fuk, but the meain thing is, the network, and the network of thots. that's the main things. they can't, they can never stop that.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 14:05 | Link to Comment -Michelle-
-Michelle-'s picture

I think he looks like Bill Nye.  Regardless of his facial structure, the man is speaking truth.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 14:30 | Link to Comment falak pema
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The question is will he merit ending up in the Iceland museum?

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 14:34 | Link to Comment redpill
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Oh it's a shoe in.  The only question is pickled, petrified, or dessicated?

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 14:39 | Link to Comment falak pema
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Icicled? But don't know if its stalactite or stalagmite!

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 14:43 | Link to Comment Oracle of Kypseli
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Heads up the pressure is on for the FED to up the rates. Look out for a small increase this week, with a promise for more if need be.

If you're long paper PM's duck for a while. 

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 22:48 | Link to Comment UninterestedObserver
UninterestedObserver's picture

LOL sorry but you're hilarious - up the rates this week. There is a better chance of Obama coming up with a reason to invade Iceland or Greece.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 23:13 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

There is a better chance of Obama coming up with a reason to invade Iceland or Greece.

Don't laugh --- at the rate which our Nobel Peace Prize winning teleprompter in chief is following in the warmongering footsteps of his illustrious predecessor, it is not so farfetched.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 16:25 | Link to Comment Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

It is Iceland. I'll vote for frozen.

I can't believe no has opened a business to "cryogenically" store people in lands with such big glaciers.

Greenland would be perfect.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 15:30 | Link to Comment ConfederateH
ConfederateH's picture

He looks more like Clark Kent.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 08:06 | Link to Comment Dr. Impossible
Dr. Impossible's picture

Its the neck-tie...this tool is used to cut off the blood flow to the brain, preventing normal thinking and in most cases causing long term states of delusion, mostly a irreversable condition. You can see its wide use by politicians, bankers, anybody claiming they have some form of authority. In western elite societies the "collaring practice" is often started at a very young age for maximum results...a very effective tool.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 13:29 | Link to Comment spiral_eyes
spiral_eyes's picture

inflation is a conspiracy theory.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 13:38 | Link to Comment Money Squid
Money Squid's picture

Is this another one of those sock puppets?

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 13:48 | Link to Comment spiral_eyes
spiral_eyes's picture

you silver bugs need to pipe down and read more REAL economics, like keynes and krugman. THEY know that the only road to prosperity is through printing fuckloads more money to raise aggregate demand. everyone knows more money equals more prosperity and without more money WE ARE AT SERIOUS RISK OF DEFLATION which will cause mass defaults. iPads that cost the same as they did a year ago are more powerful. who the fuck cares if VOLATILE prices like food and gas are shooting off the charts? NOBODY eats food or gas. only CORE inflation REALLY measures what is happening in the economy. now shut up and eat your ipad.

 

and HEY if you think silver and gold are gonna make you a lot of money you'll think different when you discover the fed can PRINT MORE OF YOUR BELOVED PMs.

 

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 14:02 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

Grave stupidity, or witty travesty?  You decide.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 14:17 | Link to Comment spiral_eyes
spiral_eyes's picture

i don't know why anyone would have a problem with ben bernanke, every prediction he has made he has got right, he has some of the best credentials in academia, and he has one of the greatest beards known to man. the only possible reason i can see for anyone to dislike bernanke is that he is jewish, or because he was appointed by a democratic president. at the end of the day he saved the most important businesses in america - goldman sachs and j.p. morgan, who we all know are productive and efficient allocators of capital. they are the reason YOU have jobs, because they (and the federal reserve) are the only ones who make any productivity possible.

 

the only PROBLEM comes from crazy right-wing conspiracy theorists who believe kennedy was shot by "bankers" (lol, wtf, they have better things to do with their time like devising models and theorems) or who listen to that right-wing asshole alex jones and don't believe in global warming (if models say it is happening, it is happening). THEY are the ones who support the koch brothers and rupert murdoch taking away YOUR money and medicare which is causing the deflation that bernanke is valiantly fighting. 

 

obama/krugman 2012!

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 14:42 | Link to Comment falak pema
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His beard makes him look like the last of the Romanovs...Awesome premonition!

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 14:47 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

I'll start digging the pit if you get the acid ready.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 15:26 | Link to Comment spiral_eyes
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+1

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 16:44 | Link to Comment D1eeeeeNAHHHHH
D1eeeeeNAHHHHH's picture

Oooooook Spiral, keep drinking that kool-aide and believing Obama made change we can believe in.

I love the remark that we dislike Bernanke because he's a Jew.

I love the remark the there are right wing conspiracy theorists.  Conspiracy theorists as you falsely label them would prefer not to vote republican or democrat.

Keep watching CNBC and believing Goldman Sachs when they tell you oil is going no where, that the bail out saved america.

Read the real news about Wadhington no one dares read.  thousands of pages in bills that will blow your mind and anger you with what they do with money.

Good luck in life, why waste your time here.  You'll only be broke away from here, stay here and get more of the real news and you'll be broke and angry that you could have won financially and mentally because you could have analysed things for what they are.  The three branches of government, corrupt.  The network news, owned by corporations who use the networks for profit.  False left/right idealogies, a soap opera used to distract people from the truth while dividing friends and family. 

 

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 17:08 | Link to Comment spiral_eyes
spiral_eyes's picture

look i wasn't even trying to troll you, it was complete sarcasm. congratulations on wasting 10 minutes of your life responding to something that was very obviously sarcastic bile. 

 

or as i confirmed two hours ago: "+1 for those who realized i was being totally sarcastic, -9001 for those who fooled themselves into believing i was mathman or whatever. "

 

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 17:22 | Link to Comment Cheyenne
Cheyenne's picture

"ben bernanke, every prediction he has made he has got right"

Classic. Someone should update that youtube Bernanke highlight reel of shitful predictions. Remember his list of TARP predictions? Jesus. I think he went 0-for-4 in just over a minute.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 17:34 | Link to Comment spiral_eyes
spiral_eyes's picture

hahahahaha

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 17:49 | Link to Comment eatthebanksters
eatthebanksters's picture

You are are a self absorbed and ignorant individual to make those presumptions...I have plenty of wonderful jewish friends and I don't give care if Obama selected Bernanke.  GS and JPM are the reason that many of my friends and I don't have jobs and have lost substantial percentages of our net worth.  It's really hard to fuck somebody in a transparent market. I'm in real estate and values are so low that very few deals are being done because the majority of them result in big losses (which nobody wants).  While GS and JPM buy and sell exotic financial products to sucker clients in an opaque market which they control, the management of those companies get rich while destroying the middle and lower class.  Let me define the rules of my market and omit any fiduciary responsibility or ethical statndards of conduct and I too can fuck sucker clients.  Right now politicians and central bankers are trying to do only one thing, because they can't do anything else...they are trying to buy time and they are praying that somehow the system does not implode.  That's all fine and well if the system is working for you, but right now it's only working for the organized crime syndicates known as TBTF banks and the Goldman Sachs.  I don't think Bernanke is personally a bad guy; I think he cares about people and I think he thinks he is doing the right thing by the world.  He's also very smart, but trying to manipulate the economy right now is like trying to stop the tidal wave that hit Japan...it's out at sea and on its way in and once it hits there will be no stopping it.  You ought to get off your high perch in your corner office at GS and walk around Main Street to get a real taste of what's happening in the world. 

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 17:43 | Link to Comment BigJim
BigJim's picture

FAIL.

The reason you and so many of your friends don't have jobs? Hmmm - how about: employers don't want to hire emotionally labile individuals who need a /sarc tag to identify parody posts?

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 18:17 | Link to Comment buzzard
buzzard's picture

So much to junk and so little time. What's a buzzard to do? Just shit on them and move on I guess...

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 17:41 | Link to Comment BigJim
BigJim's picture

Ha ha, excellent. 27 junks? Who would have guessed so many ZHer's don't know parody when they see it.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 10:36 | Link to Comment Dr. Impossible
Dr. Impossible's picture

Spiral...hmmmm how do i put this...I AGREE...

since Obama's been in office my profitability has gone ballistic. i just couldn't have seen this much high paying work come my way. It's unfuckingbelieveable..work i was doing 3-4 yrs ago was barely making min. wage, now, since this new admin. the per hr amount has gone astronomical!

I'll tell you why.

on a boring sat morn, after a snow fall, i grabbed my snow-blower, a shovel, can o gas, and a back-pack, cell phone. left home about 9am. Knockin on doors asking 5 bucks(yes 5, just basically to cover costs(gas & equip) to clear driveways/sidewalks. average driveway here take maybe 20mins. 3rd door i knock says yes....says "too cold to do themselves, no-job, but the price is right, i'm there 15mins, paid $15( got tipped for better then expected job done), 3 houses down i find another, family man in his mid 40's, says "per doctor's orders - can't do labor" they paid me $35 for 2 drives, theirs and neighbors'. Next, single mother(recently separated) lackey BF living /w, babysittin her kids w/e, obviously hung-over from night before. But need work done as slacker can't/won't. They paid me in scrap jewelry(ex-husbands gifts).(my preferred currency, old scrap gold)

BUAHAHAHHAHA  THANKS OBAMA very few willing to work, cuz they can still get loans, state bennies!

people a) lazy, gets handouts/bennies, so my labor is free for them

people b) bennies unemployment healthcare/subsidies has ability to find doctor to say can't work...these are my biggest/best paying customers

people c) unmotivated into alcoholism by seeing so many others "having it easy"<===this contagion is spreading ...fast separated from their gold because of emotion, they paid the highest amount, they just don't realize it.

got home around 7pm(hrs of walking my neighborhood with in a mile of home)...total days capture after costs...$787...THANK YOU OBAMA...i haven't had this much profit with such little costs since Billery was in office! i only had to work 1 day that whole month to cover all bills, and was able to sock away the gold balance.

whats worse, i ran an add to hire some peps for help, offer'd $10-25/hr...48hrs later no responses. so i withdrew it.

 

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 14:22 | Link to Comment Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

Screed filled with irony and bile.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 14:32 | Link to Comment Thomas
Thomas's picture

Pure sarcasm.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 15:04 | Link to Comment dearth vader
dearth vader's picture

Agreed, but because it's uber-pure, do I smell a troll?

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 15:25 | Link to Comment spiral_eyes
spiral_eyes's picture

+1 for those who realized i was being totally sarcastic, -9001 for those who fooled themselves into believing i was mathman or whatever. 

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 05:44 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

Where do I cash in my "+1?"  I appreciated the sarcasm!  It's fun to watch the touchy myopic bastards squirm and totally miss the humor.  Pavlov's Dog, print a few buzz words and people start salavating...

Wed, 04/20/2011 - 09:29 | Link to Comment mojine
mojine's picture

Thanks, I'll take the + 1. Hard to believe the many junks. I found it hilarious, and await more. Myth or myrth? You decide.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 10:41 | Link to Comment mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

There's a fine line between clever and stupid.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 17:46 | Link to Comment BigJim
BigJim's picture

More of an excellent line, IMHO

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 06:24 | Link to Comment spiral_eyes
spiral_eyes's picture

thank you sir.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 14:12 | Link to Comment High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

just what we need. another in a long line of deriviations of math punk...........

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 15:31 | Link to Comment spiral_eyes
spiral_eyes's picture

tbh, i'm quite surprised ANYONE failed to recognize that i was being completely sarcastic. 

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 17:56 | Link to Comment eatthebanksters
eatthebanksters's picture

if indeed you were being sarcastic then I take back everything I said about you...

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 18:20 | Link to Comment buzzard
buzzard's picture

Buzzards still have to shit...

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 05:50 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

Geez, man, re-read it.  I didn't even entertain a single thought that it could be anything but sarcasm.

But... good on you for taking the time to reexamine your own perceptions.

Speaking of taking back everything stated, I recently was so pissed off at someone that I'd thought was a good person, someone that I'd spoke well of, that I said that I took back every GOOD thing that I'd ever said about him!  Yeah, all kinds of avenues to be wrong about something/someone.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 22:49 | Link to Comment Old Poor Richard
Old Poor Richard's picture

Also quite surprised.  Makes me seriously doubt the IQs of some ZH readers, all those junks.  Over two dozen humorless and not-very-bright people who think you're either a troll or an Obama/Geithner/Bernank sycophant, rather than a sarcastic Fed/Washington hater.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 06:22 | Link to Comment spiral_eyes
spiral_eyes's picture

i'm also quite disappointed nobody pointed out bernanke was initially a republican appointment, lol.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 14:34 | Link to Comment OldTrooper
OldTrooper's picture

Is this another one of those sock puppets?

There have been alot of those lately.  You can't swing a dead cat without hitting one.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 13:34 | Link to Comment Newsboy
Newsboy's picture

Inflating what you need, and deflating what you've got to trade for it.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 14:45 | Link to Comment Doña K
Doña K's picture

Great! I am waiting for a trade of 20oz of gold for a 65 foot ketch. Maybe a year or two?

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 15:45 | Link to Comment Muir
Muir's picture

"Great! I am waiting for a trade of 20oz of gold for a 65 foot ketch. Maybe a year or two?"

NO.

But, you can have a great party with a couple of kilos of coke and a dozen hookers in a rented ketch for 20 oz of gold.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 16:29 | Link to Comment RECISION
RECISION's picture

Gold and silver would right themselves, because they are money that would come into their own

Actually, I have been wondering for a while now, if gold and silver were money in there own right (ie a gold standard), what would/should the price of it be???

(in constant "now" dollars I guess)

I would be really interested to hear some guesses and the rationales for that...

Cheers.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 20:11 | Link to Comment gosseyn
gosseyn's picture

In a March 25 post on ZH, Dylan Grice discussed a fully gold backed U.S. money supply (M1) in terms of a pure gold standard.  Thus he calculated gold at $7500/oz based on a U.S. gold stock of 260 million ounces.  George Reisman in his treatise “Capitalism” (1998 edition, page 592) discusses a bi-metallic standard with gold representing 2/3 of the U.S. money supply and silver the remainder.  In that context he assumed that an ounce of silver was worth one-fifteenth an ounce of gold.  Using that approach and a March 2011 M1 of $1890 billion yields approximately $4800 fiat/oz of gold and $320 fiat/oz for silver.

Rhetorical question:  do you really think that the U.S. gold stock totals 260 million ounces ?

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 20:15 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

Rhetorical question:  do you really think that the U.S. gold stock totals 260 million ounces?

Yes, I surely do!

And I also believe in the "full faith and credit" of the US government.

I also believe that the Department of Homeland Security only exists to protect us and make us safer.

I also believe that Jim Cramer is a wise and unbiased equities analyst.

I also believe in unicorns.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 02:08 | Link to Comment NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Skittles are concrete evidence that Unicorn's exist.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 05:51 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

Well duh!  ONLY unicons shit Skittles!  Everyone knows That!

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 17:46 | Link to Comment BigJim
BigJim's picture

You had me going there, until I looked up unicorns on the interweb.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 20:49 | Link to Comment Imminent Crucible
Imminent Crucible's picture

Unicorn--that's the kind that grows only one ear per stalk, right?

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 22:56 | Link to Comment UninterestedObserver
UninterestedObserver's picture

Yeah but due to money supply growth + shadow liabilities the actual number should be 2-3x that if somehow we went back to using PM backed currencies which ain't going to happen without a violent,bloody revolution so in other words don't count on it because TPTB would rather have WW3 before they gave up power.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 00:47 | Link to Comment dumpster
dumpster's picture

 

by gosseyn

George Reisman in his treatise “Capitalism” (1998 edition, page 592) discusses a bi-metallic standard with

say i like your reading material ,, bought the book in 1998..

more folks ought to study the book and do less talking..  They may learn something about the Austrian model.. 

and stop the inane Keynesian nonsense .. guys like the brain dead leo  and his daily mix of lunacy /

 

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 11:25 | Link to Comment mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

Here is the way I calculate this. 

Ignore how much metal one country or another says that is has.  Take the total amount in the world, and look at world economic activity.

I believe that you need money equal to about one year's worth of economic activity.  But you also need a similar amount of money to represent abstract financial instruments.

Let's have a bi-metallic standard in which silver and gold share the burden, each representing about one half of the total money needed.

The total amount of money required would be about 120 trillion in today's FRNs.  But wait -- I will arbitrarily cut that in half to 60 trillion, to represent a severe economic collapse, and the elimination of large swaths of the hyper-abstract 'economy'.

So we need 60 trillion, half of which would be gold.  30 trillion in gold.   We will use most of the investable gold in the world -- about 1 billion ounces.   The end result is 30,000 FRNs per ounce of gold.

I believe that, at the beginning of that new world, silver would go to something like 1/5th ounce gold -- or 6,000 FRNs per oz. Ag.    

One problem with this picture is that, even at those values, we would still need 5 billion ounces of silver -- which is at least 5x more investable silver than the world has right now.  And, at current rates of production, it will take us at least 25 years to mine such quantities -- assuming no Peak Silver problem.

Of course, at these valuations, we would see a vastly expanded effort to get Ag out of the ground, but even a tripling of supply will take too long to make up this difference.

It seems to me like we need something that is intermediate in value between silver and copper, to help out while more silver is mined.  Nickel?   All the tungsten in Fort Knox?  Either that, or a much larger role for direct barter, and a further economic collapse.

Over the course of a generation or so, the value of an ounce of gold would gradually decrease to about the equivalent of 3000 of today's FRNs.  During that same time, the value of an ounce of silver would be gradually decreasing to about 1/15th of an ounce of gold.

 

Be sure to save some of your FRNs, so you can use them for show-and-tell, while you explain to your grandchildren what it was that destroyed the Lost World.

 

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 13:34 | Link to Comment gordengeko
gordengeko's picture

Nice, a columbia grad now starting the rhetoric of the gold standard.  I trust none of these london educated economics private clubers.  Could the plan now be sacrifice the fiat banksters and replace with people from the same club under new name to usher NWO of finance?

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 13:41 | Link to Comment DosZap
DosZap's picture

2% Inflation rate is a DAMNED LIE.

It's at, or close to 10% NOW.

Using the OLD way of figuring it(the truth),it comes in at 10%.

ALL of us are geeling it at the pumps, and the stores.

Soon the green eyed monster will eviserate all holders of FRN's in banking instituitions.

You get 1% on a DD, if lucky, and your losing 10% of the purchasing power, hell of a deal.

Where are the honest people,where?.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 14:08 | Link to Comment TIMMAYYY
TIMMAYYY's picture

over here pick me...pick me...i swear to tell the truth the whole truth so help me...god?

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 14:30 | Link to Comment Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

This is painful, no doubt, but we are not in unknown territory.  This is a replay of the 1970s.  Inflation, high taxes, flat equity market (nominally), high gasoline prices and negative real interest rates.  And they will lie straight into your face about it.  There will be no changes until balance sheets are sufficiently reflated from stealing the common man's wealth.  The 1970s lasted 10 years.  This will go on for a generation or more.

The good times are over.  Start making your adjustments now.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 14:39 | Link to Comment Arthor Bearing
Arthor Bearing's picture

The policies instituted to "strengthen" the economy after the 80's were the cause of our current problems. And now there's added fiscal pressure which wasn't there in the 70's, which potentially makes our current situation much worse.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 20:00 | Link to Comment unununium
unununium's picture

BR's point, with which I am in complete agreement, is that this is the 70's - magnified.  The premise is the same as that of this week's "big con" article featured on ZH.

The only thing to think about is the timing of the PM rise vs. bonds falling, then rising.  But since the overall game plan is known, one can make hay.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 20:06 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

Except that this time, there is no possible Paul Volker to ride to the rescue, as it were, by dramatically raising interest rates to positive REAL values.  I would just love to see Bernanke or anyone else try it this time, though --- bye bye US dollar!  Poof!  Like a snowball thrown into a blast furnace.  Instead, we are fortunate to have a snowball left on a hot sidewalk.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 14:54 | Link to Comment Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

This is not the 1970's.  We didn't have the debt then that we have now.  There was no derivatives bubble.  Oil was not being imported as much.  The list of differences is long and painful.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 14:59 | Link to Comment falak pema
falak pema's picture

For it to be the end of the 70's ...we'd need Volcker, then RR and Rambo! And away we go!

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 06:06 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

Yay for you to help educate people about reality!

There isn't any upside possible.  And even though there was a "recovery" from the 70s, it was only really an illusion, the arc of the slinky as it descends down the staircase.  We're now just able to see that the path we've pushed forward on leads to the cliff.  But, hey!, we're moving forward!  (we've got to stop volunteering to get on Hitler's [TBTB's] trains)

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 14:54 | Link to Comment Doña K
Doña K's picture

I have found foreclosures for less that 10K. I am thinking that demolishing the house to eliminate taxes and upkeep, will be a good place to park cash for a while since the land is more expensive than houses.

Has anyone else done this kind of math?

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 14:59 | Link to Comment falak pema
falak pema's picture

find yourself a lover with a Bludgeon ball/ fork lift tractor and the math becomes easy!

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 16:31 | Link to Comment Maos Dog
Maos Dog's picture

DONT demolish the house!

If you have a little bit of skills, and are willing to get your hands dirty, house maintenance and upkeep costs are not that bad. Much less then I have been lead to believe. 

Big expense upfront might be to move the central ac unit to the roof, so it can't be stolen. This is a big problem here in south Florida believe it or not. 

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 17:10 | Link to Comment Doña K
Doña K's picture

Practical advice always appreciated. Thanks

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 21:24 | Link to Comment Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Just don't pay the taxes. If they keep hassling you. Send them a map that you arbirtrarily drew lines around stating some sort of inclusive and exclusive principle and send them a tax bill for building a school stating it as an easement onto your property. Just keep lying to them and screwing them and don't forget to be very self righteous and condescending as well as extremely hypocritical.

Make long winded arguements about how it's stupid to buy something or own something that you pay property taxes on and tell them that if they want to retain ownership you will gladly sell it back to them for 20 times what you paid for it as long as they negoitiate an infinty lease with you and anyone you pass the property along to.

If cops show up shoot them and beat them to death with a poisoned copy of "The art of the deal" by a strategic bankrupting casino operator.

Don't be afraid to act completely insane at any point either.

Keep asking them the structure of thier record keeping operations, where they are stored and ask for building plans on them.

Property taxes die in 2011 or you can kiss several billion people's ass goodbye because they don't want to play stupid landlord games any more.

Do you think the 50 million or so people who are dying right now in Japan are giong to return. No they are going to stick around and help you cunt punt any fucktard that comes tries to collect you as the fucking property they see you as.

Be sure to continually state how you have everyone's support in this matter they have no choice but to bow down to the collective.

If they threaten you with jail. Ask them for a building permit for a torture chamber that you won't be paying property taxes on. If they want to go to court declare yourself an attorney based on some arbitrary accreditation. Tell them you'd be happy to meet them in court as long as the judge is someone who gets paid from taxing them and if they can't afford an attorney you'd be happy to provide one that is on your side that will assist in the long winded stupid arguement involving you being right and them being wrong.

Make it very clear that it's the will of the entire planet that all government dies and if they don't cooperate with it than we will all be going someplace else and they won't be given the forwarding address. And we're really not afraid to wreck the shit out of this planet to make it understood that real slavery or illusionary slavery or negotiating from a superior position is going to die violently and without one drop of remorse.

Any contact they make with you. Reply with who the hell are you and what is this reguarding. Make up 60 page forms for them to fill out for your records of just who the hell this person thinks they are.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 00:34 | Link to Comment Bolweevil
Bolweevil's picture

Hephaesteus wins.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 05:49 | Link to Comment SME MOFO
SME MOFO's picture

Learn your drugs, know your dosages, it's elementary.

Internet posting? That's communication with the outside world. Doctor's discretion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOA3aYRSy_k

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 17:09 | Link to Comment Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Just what are you trying to do? If you are posting a dig at me you gotta know that they don't have your back. Because well that video is not available in my country because of copywrite laws.

That's what you get for ganging up with a bunch of retarded ownership clowns. Even when they ask you for help and you willinging throw down for them. They are in the background fucking you over and making you look stupid. How does it feel being part of a machine with a bunch of retards pulling semaphore lockouts while simultaneously asking you to print an attack.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4hFwJm41h4

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 08:12 | Link to Comment SME MOFO
SME MOFO's picture

actually they have many delicious new decaffeinated coffees on the market now

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 06:11 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

Could stand some edits, but other than that, +666!

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 04:18 | Link to Comment falak pema
falak pema's picture

mine was very practical

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 18:28 | Link to Comment buzzard
buzzard's picture

I virtually stole 10 acres from my neighbor who came to me with a sob story about bein broke and all. I told him he could have it back if he ever came into some money. Do I see hell starting to glisten with frost? Nah.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 04:40 | Link to Comment Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

All real estate is local, but generally speaking the carrying cost of land alone is significant unless the land is rezoned, regardless of a whether a house physically exists on the property.   

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 16:21 | Link to Comment Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

I have been buying real estate since last year, now have 5 rentals with positive cash flow. Average cost $80,000 to $150,000 per unit. All good properties in nice quiet small towns. With today's inflation rate I expect rent to keep up with inflation and RE values to increase.This time around  I'm buying only single family homes duplexes and triplexes nothing larger, so cannot be trapped by rent control. This is my biggest investment now, and will be buying more. The rest of my savings in physical gold.

If I lived in the US I could have bought a lot more houses, much cheaper. Buy good properties in good neighborhoods for positive cash flow, plan to hold for 10 or 20 years. You will end up OK. In the case of hyperinflation you will do much better than OK.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 13:39 | Link to Comment Green Leader
Green Leader's picture

Looks to me that way, too.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 13:42 | Link to Comment gordengeko
gordengeko's picture

JFK

- on April 27th 1961 he spoke to the National News Publishers Association which in my opinion would be the most important Presidential Speech in the history of America.

Excerpt from Alan Watts website:

http://www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com/transcripts/JFK_Video_Speech.html

Our way of life is under attack. Those who make themselves our enemy are advancing around the globe. The survival of our friends is in danger. And yet no war has been declared, no borders have been crossed by marching troops, no missiles have been fired.

      If the press is awaiting a declaration of war before it imposes the self-discipline of combat conditions, then I can only say that no war ever posed a greater threat to our security. If you are awaiting a finding of "clear and present danger," then I can only say that the danger has never been more clear and its presence has never been more imminent.

 

     It requires a change in outlook, a change in tactics, a change in missions--by the government, by the people, by every businessman or labor leader, and by every newspaper. For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy that relies primarily on covert means for expanding its sphere of influence--on infiltration instead of invasion, on subversion instead of elections, on intimidation instead of free choice, on guerrillas by night instead of armies by day. It is a system which has conscripted vast human and material resources into the building of a tightly knit, highly efficient machine that combines military, diplomatic, intelligence, economic, scientific and political operations.

 

     Its preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are buried, not headlined. Its dissenters are silenced, not praised. No expenditure is questioned, no rumor is printed, no secret is revealed. It conducts the Cold War, in short, with a war-time discipline no democracy would ever hope or wish to match.”

 

JFK

- Graduated from elite prep school Choate, voted “most likely to become president” by classmates there.

 

- Entered London School of Economics, undergraduate, but returned home after just 3 weeks due to poor health

 

- Princeton University, undergraduate.  Attended 6 weeks before being sent home to be observed for possible diagnosis of leukemia

 

- Hardvard University, competed undergraduate degree, graduated cum laude

 

-Stanford Graduate School of Business.  Left before completing degree to join the military

http://vigilantcitizen.com/latestnews/naming-names-your-real-government/

‘Conclusion’

“These organizations represent the collective interests of the largest corporations on earth. They not only retain armies of policy wonks and researchers to articulate their agenda and form a consensus internally, but also use their massive accumulation of unwarranted influence in media, industry, and finance to manufacture a self-serving consensus internationally.

To believe that this corporate-financier oligarchy would subject their agenda and fate to the whims of the voting masses is naive at best. They have painstakingly ensured that no matter who gets into office, in whatever country, the guns, the oil, the wealth and the power keep flowing perpetually into their own hands. Nothing vindicates this poorly hidden reality better than a “liberal” Nobel Peace Prize wearing president, dutifully towing forward a myriad of “Neo-Con” wars, while starting yet another war in Libya.

Likewise, no matter how bloody your revolution is, if the above equation remains unchanged, and the corporate bottom lines left unscathed, nothing but the most superficial changes will have been made, and as is the case in Egypt with International Crisis Group stooge Mohamed ElBaradei worming his way into power, things may become substantially worse.

The real revolution will commence when we identify the above equation as the true brokers of power and when we begin systematically removing our dependence on them, and their influence on us from our daily lives. The global corporate-financier oligarchy needs us, we do not need them, independence from them is the key to our freedom.”

http://vigilantcitizen.com/latestnews/naming-names-your-real-government/

Know your enemy, for its ties are deep and its will is strong.  It can only be won by first conquering the battle within yourself.  

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 13:52 | Link to Comment JFK.4PREZ
JFK.4PREZ's picture

they couldn't puppetize him so they eliminated him.   

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 13:56 | Link to Comment DosZap
DosZap's picture

The last straw was when he ordered the printing of United States Notes.

$5.00's first, and was planning all others soon there after.

He bypassed the Fed, and got a bullet for it.

End of story.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 14:15 | Link to Comment Cyrano de Bivouac
Cyrano de Bivouac's picture

Yes, another reason Kennedy also ordered the withdrawal of 1,000 soldiers from Vietnam in 1963.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 14:39 | Link to Comment whstlblwr
whstlblwr's picture

The defeat attitude is also a great weapon for them. Or better you become militant and they can arrest. No, we DO have power through elections in the US. THEY hope you don't think so and stay home with TV, football, or play mad on Zero Hedge blog. I post this again from response to Mr. 1984

----
I wasn't calling you a coward for your opinion. It seems to me many here post and get themselves riled up, but that's it, it stops there. A way to make a difference is to get involved. If you don't like the system, then work to change it. Not whine all day on a financial blog.

The GOP are definitely scared. The teaparty scares the establishment. The first thing they did was adopt it to suppress it.

The community here could create a strong political movement and really create change. The people of the US are ready for change, they voted for change, but the power brokers aren't, they want things to stay the same. If you guys would get off your ass and quit whining, you could make it happen. Now's the time of any time in history besides maybe the original Boston Tea Party.

This community is mostly smart and could make a difference if they wanted to, but from what I've read here for the last couple of years, most people just want to vent. It's easier, you know? That's why you're a coward.

(thanks to writing help from friend)

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 15:43 | Link to Comment gordengeko
gordengeko's picture

I'm assuming your response is sarcasm.  44 out of your 52 "savior" teaparty members voted to renew expiring provisions of the patriot act.  JFK was your last 'hope', unless people wake up and realize what is going on one day you will wake up to find out that you have been cast for a bad reenactment of the movie 'land of the living dead'.  Oh wait... this must be the sequel.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 16:08 | Link to Comment whstlblwr
whstlblwr's picture

Don't assume because you sound like ass. Teaparty is not savior party, run whatever party you want. But work platform this community cares about. Reduce debt, honest government. I think many social types ran as teaparty last time because its popular. If you run and elected, you not always vote right way either. But the more of us help the right ones win, the more change we will have. It's time now, get off your lazy ass gordengeko from zerohedge blog.

It is numbskull thing to say people wake up and realize what going on. We are woken up, and we want change. We want it last election and we want it this election and many people on this blog are taking easy way. You hiding behind Michael Douglas avatar, what are you doing besides jerking to doomy pleasures.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 16:34 | Link to Comment gordengeko
gordengeko's picture

You do not know what you are up against.  This system is rotten to the core and it includes the indocrtination of today's youth.  Unless the core of the problem is changed it don't matter who the fuck you "elect" into office.  It's an ideology based on globalism and removal of selfhood/sovereignty for the good of the elite.  The core fundamentals which are taught must be changed.  So go protest, go vote in the next political yahoo that speaks well.  JFK told you the problem, that is why I posted it.  The press that is left which is not corporate owned must inform the masses of the key issues.  We can't just continue to spin our wheels pointing out the obvious.  Again, how can you expect to win something you have absolutely no idea what it is you are fighting???

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 17:31 | Link to Comment whstlblwr
whstlblwr's picture

Do you hear, you are quoting a man who was ELECTED.

Get off your asses zero hedge. Let's do it. Find people you admire, support them to win. Better even admire yourself, Run for office. We will support you and help you spread the word.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 18:34 | Link to Comment gordengeko
gordengeko's picture

I admire your passion. Now channel that into doing some research. I gave you plenty to start, heres some more google jordan maxwell dawn of a new day.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 19:57 | Link to Comment whstlblwr
whstlblwr's picture

My passion reserved for things worthwhile, not sitting around with you lazy ass on blog reading some fringe person screaming of george soros conspiracy. I don't need to make a click to know what it is.

You are American citizen, then sad that US deserves what is getting. Any who complain of the sheeple or the citizens watching American Idol, look in the mirror.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 20:05 | Link to Comment unununium
unununium's picture

I side with you.  If hope were gone, things would be much worse already.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 21:17 | Link to Comment Bringin It
Bringin It's picture

Hope is over with unless you can adjust your terms of reference.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 20:11 | Link to Comment Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

-1

No need for that comment directed at GG. You just don't get it I guess.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 23:00 | Link to Comment UninterestedObserver
UninterestedObserver's picture

LOL "honest government" you MUST still be in college to be so naive - the fucking Supreme Court has allowed corporations to have the same rights as you! If you don't think that killed what little semblence of democracy remained then you need to wake the fuck up.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 17:49 | Link to Comment Confuchius
Confuchius's picture

@doszap

It may be a mistake to assess this as: "end of story"

The story continues.

The less said about it the better.

The final act will be a big surprise to all these criminals.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 14:02 | Link to Comment Gyro Gearloose
Gyro Gearloose's picture

Absolutely right!  Especially the part about conquering the battle within ourselves.  All our efforts will be futile unless this individual step is taken first.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 18:03 | Link to Comment Cheyenne
Cheyenne's picture

Great post.

What's interesting about the JFK speech is that he gave it only 3 months into the Office. Makes you wonder what he saw during that time to give a speech like this.

Thanks for sharing.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 18:50 | Link to Comment gordengeko
gordengeko's picture

Exactly, the kennedy family successfully subverted the system to gain power. Joe planted jfk into their schooling and strong armed the media with help from the mafia to get him elected.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 19:03 | Link to Comment Cheyenne
Cheyenne's picture

Kennedy's opponent in 1960 was Richard Milhaus Nixon. Was Tricky, in your opinion, part of the system? Also, would Nixon have won but for some of the more unseemly tactics of Joe?

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 20:01 | Link to Comment gordengeko
gordengeko's picture

Don't have all the answers but I wouldn't call joes tactics unseemly. I believe he knew the motive (worldwide communism) and was against it. I think he was just a bootlegger crook that had connections on wallstreet. I think he discovered the communism conspiracy because he spoke out against it during the battle of britain which ultimately got him ousted. Rockefeller was his enemy I think, he enforced prohibition and FDR repealed it because joe ran boos with FDR's oldest son. You can't make this shit up. This shit is fascinating.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 22:03 | Link to Comment Cheyenne
Cheyenne's picture

I know. I'm 45 years old and going through school again, only this time I ask questions.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 04:28 | Link to Comment falak pema
falak pema's picture

there was no communist conspiracy. There was ideological war between Oligarchy aka USA/UK capitalists against Continental European Statism (Hitler/Stalin/Mussolini) axis. The Capitalists won the first round, (the second punic war of our times) in 1945. As they did with the ultimate collapse of Communist statism in 1989 (the third punic war of out times). But they subsequently lost the peace of new Mare Nostrum. As capitalism of USA/UK variety is dying before our very eyes, having imploded from within under the Hubris of Reaganonmics, the mantra of the NWO Oligarchy. New, new paradigm now required...and China has a Keynesian statist cum capitalist model to propose...watch out!

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 16:40 | Link to Comment Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

The 1960 election was the closest presidential election in US history up to that time. Political insiders admit Nixon would have won except for the ballot box stuffing especially around Chicago and Cook County. Nixon considered asking for a recount but backed off under threats of exposure of Republican shenanigans. It was also widely known that Kennedy stood no chance of winning the primaries but Joe bought the nomination for him.

Funny quote when certain delegates offered to sell their votes after Joe figured the nomination  was in the bag, Joe said "I'm not paying for a landslide" lol.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 18:16 | Link to Comment Green Leader
Green Leader's picture
@ Gordengeko: this is my response to you. I have found it to be truthful and guiding.

Should Christians physically fight with flesh and blood to "take America back" from the moral, political and legal corruption it is now falling into?  Should we fight with the government and conspirators or is there a purpose in this?  God told me that the Scriptural understanding of this would save the lives of many Christians.  The Word shows us that a civil war is coming to America and that Christians will get the blame when the right-wing loses.  Great persecution is coming.  Make sure it's not your fault.

http://www.unleavenedbreadministries.org/?page=swordorcross 

 

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 23:42 | Link to Comment gordengeko
gordengeko's picture

GL, the bible is a whole other story that would start a new thread. Starting with the fact that in genesis, the earth wasn't waste and void but a waste and desolation meaning it was something before the beginning. Also, who is us and our when God said let us make man in our imahe in our likeness. Too much to add to this thread.:)

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 06:34 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

That "God" would favor some virtual entity is a bit silly.

Further, this "take back the country" blathering that's been going on since Howard [dumbfuck] Dean ran for POTUS is sick.  Go ahead, tell us what point in time it is that you want to return to? (note that you won't likely have the Internet, iPods, autos etc.).  And, if you rewind far enough you get a land that was inhabited by a bunch of yet-to-be-exterminated people.

Not only was there NEVER a realistic social model in the "U.S.," but basically never in all of human history (recorded that is- to the victor goes the authority to extinguish lots of records).

You see, "go forth and multiply" didn't come with a STOP mechanism.  And on a finite planet that's a BIG fucking FAIL!  Faulty programming, and the Big Programmer is nowhere to be found to install a bug fix.  NOTE: I don't see massive failure/die-off as a friendly "fix."

People need to stop praying for the arrival of unicorns bearing Skittles to save our behinds.  Suck it up and do the right thing...

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 06:55 | Link to Comment tradewithdave
tradewithdave's picture

If you mean by Christian, a follower of "The Way" or the same followers of Christ and his teaching of salvation through faith rather than works, then you have a calling.  "America" is a form, created by men, albeit a greatly improved form of government than we have seen throughout history.  America is not a spiritual being, a mind or consciousness, it's a form and is therefore subject to the mind.

The "law of the land" connected the physical landscape with that form of government through concepts such as habeas corpus, distraint and property rights.  If you are "the land" or if your form of "America" is your form then sure you have no choice but to "take it back."  But believing that "I'm an American" ranks with who you truly are is a deception.  You are not the land any more than Christ was the land.  We are stewards of both the land and the form of our government.  Christ literally overcame the land and the law when He overcame the grave.

If you strive to "take it back" at this point you are taking back the Fed, taking back the banks, taking back the military.  If you feel that is your calling, then you should do it.  I can't imagine how Christ would call someone to such an endeavor, but it's possible.  It's not my calling and it's not something He has equipped me for and short of being a nuclear superpower you probably are not equipped for it either. 

On the other hand, what are you equipped for?  You're probably equipped for cutting your cable tv, growing some food, sharing with your neighbors, studying Christ's teachings in your home, home schooling your children, eliminating interest and credit from your experience and being a light of life in your workplace. 

Every time you use a credit card or write a check, or fill up your tank you gradually undermine America and the hope of liberty that its form attempts to represent.  It doesn't take many changes in behavior to make a huge change in the system and if you get put in jail for spray-painting Ben Bernanke's limousine with graffiti, then you just added to the size of the tyrannical system and prison industrial complex. 

Starving the beast is quite easy, but there are limitations we are all faced with.  You can't post on this site without a high speed connection from Verizon for example.  I use all the things I mentioned above (credit cards, banks, grocery stores, etc.)  and I'm on the grid.  But I know enough about business to know that it doesn't take much to tip the scale and I invest in businesses and take small steps each day to starve the beast while still renew my committment daily to follow Jesus' teaching to render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and render unto God what is God's.  The Word is clear about government and its authority over us. 

The one single weapon of a tyrannical government that is formed against us most effectively is fear.  Not one of us is called to fear anyone or anything except a righteous fear of the awesome power of God.  The prophet Isaiah delclared "No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the Lord." 

If you and I were in a battle, or let's just say we were playing that kid's card game called WAR, the one where you match cards and see who wins the deck.  If you knew before the game ever started that you were victorious over me then would be fearful of me?  Would you "fight with flesh and blood" to take my cards if you knew already that you were victorious before the game ever started?  If you knew the deck was stacked?  I don't think so.  Instead you would be forgiving and encouraging and convinced that I was on the wrong team and that my only hope was to join with you. 

Sharing the Good News of the Gospel of Christ is the most powerful weapon against any form of tyranny because it disables the weapon of fear that is the only weapon the enemy has.  People believe that "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."  Nothing could be further from the truth.  The only thing we have to fear is God and being separate from His love and believing that we are on our own by embracing existential concepts such as Sartre's "No exit" or "Hell is other people."  Your spiritual journey is not somehow an independent or even a collective journey that you can sustain on your own or through group-think.  It's your journey, yet there is a connection to each other through the Holy Spirit sent by our very Creator. 

Dave Harrison

www.tradewithdave.com   

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 09:40 | Link to Comment gordengeko
gordengeko's picture

The only thing we have to fear is God and being separate from His love and believing that we are on our own by embracing existential concepts such as Sartre's "No exit" or "Hell is other people."  Your spiritual journey is not somehow an independent or even a collective journey that you can sustain on your own or through group-think.  It's your journey, yet there is a connection to each other through the Holy Spirit sent by our very Creator.

Great comment sir, thats exactly it. One of their purposes is to separate us from our faith and get us to buy in as being a consumer instead of a spiritual human having an experience.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 13:31 | Link to Comment Green Leader
Green Leader's picture

Those are excellent thoughts, indeed.

Fear is the enemy's weapon. Starving the beast? We must live lives close to nature, not in a new age or aboriginal realm but as mandated by YAH. That's why I call myself an environmentalist of the Torah, being Messianic Xuete/Sephardim. I am not called to fight the USA beast.

I did place the link for others to see, as I live in the Caribbean!

Thanks for sharing.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 20:08 | Link to Comment 45north
45north's picture

For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy that relies primarily on covert means for expanding its sphere of influence--on infiltration instead of invasion, on subversion instead of elections, on intimidation instead of free choice, on guerrillas by night instead of armies by day. It is a system which has conscripted vast human and material resources into the building of a tightly knit, highly efficient machine that combines military, diplomatic, intelligence, economic, scientific and political operations.

like the KGB?


Sat, 04/16/2011 - 20:28 | Link to Comment gordengeko
gordengeko's picture

There is actually a good interview with G Edward Griffin with an ex kgb. Talks about how to successfully subvert a country in less than two generations and exactly how it is done. We were in the last stages in the 80's.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 21:49 | Link to Comment robobbob
robobbob's picture

nearly twenty year old interview of Yuri Bezmenov. matches events almost perfectly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RS8LA-5fmrs

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 21:49 | Link to Comment robobbob
robobbob's picture

nearly twenty year old interview of Yuri Bezmenov. matches events almost perfectly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RS8LA-5fmrs

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 21:50 | Link to Comment robobbob
robobbob's picture

dp

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 13:56 | Link to Comment janchup
janchup's picture

"Sacrifice" the fiat banksters at all costs. 

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 14:14 | Link to Comment High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

the new lie is same as the old lie.  from fiat we go to the gold standard. still even then, control of our own money will be in the hands of the creatures of the city of london........

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 15:48 | Link to Comment gordengeko
gordengeko's picture

The sad part is if the alternate media that is left don't wake up and start educating on how to fix the problem we are doomed.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 06:49 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

And just what would that education be?

Again, people need to stop thinking that others have to fix this "problem."  First, the ONLY problem that we have is that we're overrunning the planet, you need to start here, as this is the fundamental.  And, don't ask me how to "solve" something so horribly complex/dynamic: as long as people profit off the misery of others there will be cons going on, cons that der

ail any meaningful attempt at "adjustment;" and, I'd proffer, this is EXACTLY the crux of our situation- we've all bought into the big lie so that we didn't have to deal with this crushing moral dilemma.  So... we all wait for the "Second Coming," the "big disaster" etc...  Ironically it's our overall compassion that's allowed us to grow to 6.5+ billion and counting.

It's beyond me that we can readily accept something that we cannot see -gravity- (oh, except in the case of 9/11/2001) but not that the planet is finite.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 09:43 | Link to Comment gordengeko
gordengeko's picture

Seer, I don't have all of the answers and I'm not trying to pretend like I do. There are ways tho that we can starve the beast. In my jfk post above they are mentioned.

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