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Jim Rogers Comments On Triple Digit Silver And Issues Warning: "Parabolic Moves Always Collapse"
Jim Rogers commented on the recent move by the University of Texas to take delivery of $1 billion in gold, saying the decision is long overdue, and has only occurred because everyone else is now buying thereby taking metal out of circulation. He adds: "But where were these guys five, ten years ago? That’s when they should have been doing all of this." Indeed the momentum chasers never show up until it's too late. Then Rogers had some words of caution for silver bulls: "If silver continues to go up like it has been over the past 2 or 3
weeks, yes, then it would get to triple digits this year. And then
we’ll have to worry. It’s not parabolic yet. I hope something stops it
going up in the foreseeable future and we have a correction. " There is one caveat: "maybe the US dollar is going to become confetti in 2011, and if
that’s the case and silver goes to $150, then obviously I wouldn’t sell
my silver. It would be the US dollar which is collapsing. But if
silver goes up the way you’re talking about without currency collapse, I
would be very worried." So as usual, those long Precious Metals should not hate the Chairsatan but to urge him on to continue doing what he is doing so well: converting that once valuable combination of 75% cotton and 25% linen into "confetti."
From Financial Survival Radio
Financial Survival Radio: We just read that the second-largest university investment fund here in the US is buying physical gold. The University of Texas, which is where I live, is putting aside $1B worth of gold in a New York vault. Some have called this move a tipping point for the precious metals market. Do you agree?
Jim Rogers: Well, tipping point? Gold’s been going up for ten years in a row. I’d hardly call this a tipping point. Silver’s been skyrocketing…
FSR: Maybe a tipping point where we see more institutional mainstream demand.
JR: Well, again, that has been happening. If suddenly all the pension funds wake up and say, I’ve got to own gold, they may start thinking about it more and more. But the thing that’s been getting people’s attention is the fact that gold has been going up so much. That’s the wrong way to invest. Look, I own gold. I own silver. But where were these guys five, ten years ago? That’s when they should have been doing all of this. Unfortunately for all of us, most investors don’t notice something until there’s a good, nice bull market in place, such as with gold and silver. After ten years of price rises in gold, people are starting to notice. That’s what they’re noticing more than the fact that the University of Texas is buying gold. I’m glad they did, I own gold. And yes, there will be more people buying gold. Eventually, everybody’s going to be owning gold, and then we’ll all have to sell our gold. But that’s a long way from now.
FSR: Silver in particular has been of great interest to my family. It looks like $50 silver is going to happen very soon. But Jim, will we see a triple-digit silver price in 2011?
JR: If it does, we’ll all have to sell, because then you’ve got a bubble, a parabolic move and all parabolic moves end badly. I certainly hope it doesn’t happen because I own silver and want to buy more. My hope is, silver and gold and all commodities will continue to go up in an orderly way for another ten years or so, and eventually the prices will be very, very high. Yes, we’ll have triple-digit silver, but if it happens this year, Jay, I would probably start to think about selling.
FSR: But what we’ve seen so far, you wouldn’t consider parabolic?
JR: No, not yet. But I’m worried about silver. If silver continues to go up like it has been over the past 2 or 3
weeks, yes, then it would get to triple digits this year. And then
we’ll have to worry. It’s not parabolic yet. I hope something stops it
going up in the foreseeable future and we have a correction. There’s never one in history that hasn’t popped.
Now, maybe the US dollar is going to become confetti in 2011, and if that’s the case and silver goes to $150, then obviously I wouldn’t sell my silver. It would be the US dollar which is collapsing. But if silver goes up the way you’re talking about without currency collapse, I would be very worried.
FSR: So that’s the bottom line, those who have been holding on to precious metals for the long term need to watch where the Dollar is to decide whether it’s time to sell.
JR: That’s certainly part of it, yes. And you have to watch the price action. I remember when gold went parabolic in 1980. I shorted gold when it went parabolic in 1980, and it went higher for another two weeks after I shorted it. But it eventually collapsed. Silver eventually collapsed. All parabolic moves throughout history, there’s never been a parabolic move which hasn’t collapsed in any asset.
Silver and gold, yes, will be a bubble someday, Jay. There’s no question in my mind that all commodities will be a huge bubble someday. But I don’t think that bubble is going to happen in 2011. I think it’s going to be more likely 2017, or 2018…you know, a few years from now. I’m not picking a year, just saying it’s a few years away. It could happen sooner, but I hope not.
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I definitely agree - if (or the more I watch our inadequate political leaders continue to get shammed by the wall street lizard kings - I'm thinking - "when our dollar collapses") it finally happens it will be much much uglier here than say, Chile, Peru, or even Russia. Check out Dimtry Orlov's discussions of the stages if you want to know what to expect. Then go out and buy a couple of Glocks. Plus - you can't eat silver. The first year will be ugly - we aren't as polite as the Japanese, and we don't have the extended social structures that the Russian people had built to get around their restrictive political system - which actually helped them weather their melt down. They already were engaging in black markets and 'home businesses'.
Hopefully it won't be a sudden collapse, but a slow decline. Then the people will come out of denial, create extended social structures, set up a means of production on a local and personal level and create black markets outside of the system.
The important item IMHO is ending denial.
Like Jim Rogers said, anything that goes parabolic eventually collapses, including the human population which went parabolic 125 years ago...
My schnitzel went parabolic 3 minutes ago. Any second now I expect it to collapse.
Just a nit- "inadequate political leaders continue to get shammed by the wall street lizard kings"
Political "leaders" are the same as those on Wall Street, only their "social skills" are a bit better (have to deal with the public).
I wouldn't go so far as to claim that "it" WILL get uglier (we really don't have crystal balls), but... it most certainly has the elements to suggest that it COULD get uglier. Things aren't all equal, in which case things will be different in different locations.
Because at this point future generations are screwed. I wouldn't mind a little personal hardship if I could get something better for my kids.
I think we need to soften up the "hardship" angle a bit. I'm thinking that it needs to be replaced with "sacrifice." This could further be softened along the lines of Seventh-Generation thinking- it's what we do, how we operate, it's expected, it's necessary: serve future generations, not the power-sucking zombies that have us in the grips now.
I think you speak of a kinder, softer style Stockholm Syndrome.
I think you speak of a kinder, softer style Stockholm Syndrome.
I think under the majority of scenarios in the future guns, gold, and silver will be helpful. A short term food supply and clean water source would also.
Also, buying gold and silver is a good way to tell the banks and government to go fuck themselves and die.
CogDis, if you find a site where that discussion is taking place, please post the link here.
There's a book titled ENDGAME. Some discussions have begun by people who've read the book.
http://seekingalpha.com/article/225626-missing-pieces-in-john-mauldin-s-the-end-game
Discussion is desperately needed. People don't know what to do, but at least one who commented on a review of the book at amazon hit the nail on the head.
Individual Investor says: "When you say "a transfer of debt, not an extinction of it, from the private sector to the public sector" you make it sound like an equitable deal. Far from it. The friends of the Fed (or Goldman Sachs and friends) got to transfer the bad debt they created through unwise risk taking to the population at large. The middle class will have to pay higher taxes so that the Wall Street bankers, instead of going broke which is what should have happened, continue to pocket extraordinary bonuses for a job well messed up.
Continuing website discussion of details relating to what may happen would be useful, I think, even though it's terrifying.Unfunded Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security is another form of government theft that the middle class will have to pay for.
The plain fact is that anyone who trusts the good faith and credit of Uncle Sam is a fool and and idiot. Today more than ever, the average citizen is well advised to become self reliant because counting on Uncle Sam is about as unwise a move as one can make. Uncle Sam is broke. Listen to the haggling in Congress, the debt problem is not going to be solved, not even tempered. People have to realize that when everyone gets into the safety net there is no one left outside of it to hold it up. When everyone is inside the safety net, the net ceases to exist. Your only rational choice is to look out for Number One, to become self reliant. How that can be done is left as an exercise for the reader." http://www.amazon.com/review/R2OAWS1E9EDTJ1/ref=cm_cr_dp_cmt?ie=UTF8&ASIN=1118004574&nodeID=283155&tag=&linkCode=#wasThisHelpful
I've been thinking about writing a series of articles about this, but I don't feel qualified. Then again who really is?
moi, perhaps?
Not that great a book. The absolute worst chapter was the Conclusion: "Investing and Profiting from Endgame".
Empty and vapid devoid of any critical thinking.
I'm going to keep it in my library, when Endgame comes I will need toilet paper.
Oh, I don't know CD. Didn't the dollar already collapse (August 15, 1971) and what we've been experiecing is, essentially, near 40 years (so far) of death throes? Sure, it could get ugly if the last 1% of the 99% depreciation happens rapidly but, in the end, isn't the transition to another currency about as complicated as visiting another country? How long does it really take for one to become accustomed to the local scrip in a foreign land? It could be as benign as that and, yes, gold & silver will surely hold their value and serve well.
Take a look at some of my other comments in this thread.
Yes, it COULD be as benign as that. But I doubt it. Simply because more than just 37 years of same old same old has taken place since Nixon took us off the international Gold standard. And the reason that transition was successful was because the US was still considered to be relatively healthy. A lot of disease has ravaged the American body in the last 37 years. We are now riddled with venereal disease and gangrene.
Well, hopefully the free (black, if need be) market will flourish and the government, with the unconstitutional legal tender monopoly, will just be outmoded, overgrown if not overthrown. Gold & silver atms? Competing currencies? We all know where fiat ends... when and how we get there is a mystery. It could be utter mayhem (e.g. massive civil unrest, etc.,) Best to be prepared for any potential eventuality. I hope we see a return to honest money (& not some other fiat dollaro nuevo or something, lol!).
I think that you might be missing the bigger picture.
We've been hiding the fact that we're running out of resources to support growth, we've done that via the fiat shell game. We're now pretty much aware of the shell game, and the game masters don't know of any other game.
The "transition" is about recognizing the real value in the resources that we need. And this realization is going to be harsh, as we're going to have to learn that there are limits, and as soon as that's discovered we'll have massive hording (hm, look around at the mentality of many here). If I'm hungry why would I trade my food for tokens?
The issue is to me, IF the dollar is allowed to collapse. It will be worthless, and what do the people who have not diversified into PM's, do for money.
You lose it all.
And like Gerald Celente says, When you have lost everything, you LOSE it.
If this happens, and the Gvt does not issue a new currency, with value(exchanged for old), your in the SHTF scenario.
Zero from Zero is still Zero.
... we must begin to talk about how the end game will affect everyone..........in particular those around us who are not preparing.
Who cares how it will affect the masses?
And please don't waste more ZH bandwidth discussing it. It's pointless.
In every great upheaval the masses get slaughtered. It's not going to change.
gee imagine that, a vet says parabolics collapse.
Be diligent people, remember this is only a trade. Not a religion.
If you think it's different I feel for you. We are in to protect assets and wealth. if we make buck great but never forget why you bought it.
Everyone will have different motivations. Be very clear on what yours are.
salute Bitchez
Exactly. PMs are for the transition, not for the duration of our lifetime. Eventually something will replace the collapsed dollar and PMs will begin to lose 'value' in relation to the new currency. We are using PMs to preserve assets that can then be converted on the other side of the disaster.
I think of PMs as a bridge over troubled waters. Hat tip to Simon and Garfunkle
Captain Kirk: "we're going to where these coordinates said they went."
Bones: "what if they went to...NOWHERE?"
Captain Kirk: "well, this is finally your chance to get away from it all like you always said you wanted."
beaming "to nowhere" commences.
CD, yes that is exactly what they are... The time to sell is when you hear of Breton-Woods III...
I foresee mighty resistance at 50 for Ag, a consolidation, Au/Ag creeping back to historical norms, the whole thing converges at Au/Ag at about 25...
Congrats to CD and others.
First meaningful discussion on silver I've seen at ZH
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I've always seen PMs this way and I assumed others did as well. And a year ago you would find discussions about this here on ZH.
But as the PM 'price' as measured in fiat has gone higher and higher greed has overtaken measured and thoughtful discussion to a great extent and the PM swan song has degenerated into Gold and Silver bitches.
I'm sure some will take exception to my use of the phrase 'greed'. But to deny that this is happening is to deny the obvious. Time to bring the PM balloon back to Earth and begin talking about the other side of the ride.
My neighbor and I were playing pool at another neighbor’s house. After beers my one neighbor turns to me and says, “You just want to take over the world with your no rules and owing all the silver and gold shit.”
I looked at him and exclaimed, “I think you have got me all wrong. The ONLY reason I am buying silver to reclaim my sovereignty. I’d like to be left the fuck alone and not have to be indebted to anyone but me and my god, whoever that may be. Nothing more, nothing less.”
I believe I may have caught him a bit off guard, but I am not looking to rule the world, buy city blocks with ounce gold coins, or convert when the dow gold ratio hits 1:1 PARITY. I just don’t want to be a slave to this paper manipulated world if at all possible. Perhaps that’s too much to desire, but it is really my last hope.
Writing and meeting with yourcongressmen is farting in the wind. Getting on National TV and promoting the cause at the cost of ridicule is worthless. Voting is for chumps (I still pull the level like all of the other monkeys though). Press releases and coverage in local newspapers is smoking one’s own belly button lint (thanks Max Keiser). Exerting one’s sovereignty in meaningless citation violations from local police officers as civil disobedience? That falls on deaf ears, but can amuse your neighbors. Buying silver? Who fucking knows anymore? Just put me out of my misery for fuck’s sake. This is my last dash at political activism until I either decide to love my captor or take a really long nap.
But then again, I am just a Dick Head.
No "you're Richard. Dick for short. And that's Doctor to you mo fo."
http://www.youtube.com/user/rysa5?feature=chclk
The awakening has not happened as the template is not in full cohesion. Once the release of purpose is achieved through pure service the teachers of light will be able to increase the vibratory field The initiators of the template have already begun in ways unknown to each other within the First Wave of Activated Wayshowers and Teachers of Light.
Maybe? Maybe not. I know nothing anymore really.
STEP AWAY FROM THE COMPUTER AND KEEP YOUR HANDS WHERE I CAN SEE THEM. It's OK Doc. Just be the gray man and MYOB, we will be lucky to save ourselves and the ones we love. FTR.
Was your neighbor drunk, or is he just stupid?
Since when can you "take over the world" without rules? Excuse me, but "to rule" means...
I would have dismissed the PM comments and went directly for this. I'd have looked at him and said: "Don't confuse me with a nihilist." And if you REALLY want to fuck with people's heads just act like a normal human being and tell them you're an anarchist: deer in the headlights, Stepford Wives meltdown...
Defenders of the status quo aren't programmed to think.
"This is my last dash at political activism until I either decide to love my captor or take a really long nap."
It's not an either-or option. You can opt out of the system, work outside of it to create that which will take its place. Not likely anyone can go cold turkey, but everyone can take steps (I'm not sure that buying PMs qualifies, but
When I started buying gold and silver in 2002, people thought I was nuts. Most had been burned by the previous run up in metals. I read somewhere along the way that the best way to determine where the next big market is, find out which sector or investments are considered "dirty words". In '02 it was precious metals. In 2011 it is real estate. I have been selectively making purchases into rental properties. Slowly I am transfering my precious metals holdings into real estate. Over the next 10 years I will likely be out of metals. Real estate will provide a fairly easy transition should a new currency evolve.
No doubt many are waiting for the bottom in real estate. Interesting to note that one only knows the bottom has been reached after the sector has risen 15% or more from it (you missed it then dude). I am willing to be on the front side of the bottom. I think it was JPMorgan (what a fine example) who said: "I always buy too early and sell too soon. That's how I made my money."
We Ferengi love to make deals, we love to make m-o-n-e-y-
nice
The bubble top in gold took nearly 20 years to consolidate. You are in year 5 of the post "real estate crash". Good luck!
very nice but very soon and very risky
There is real estate and then there is real estate.
Be careful not to assume that your rentals can actually be rented out. Jobs? This was the assumption made by many, and then the bottom dropped out.
I went short fiat and got real estate in the form of land, which I am working to convert to farm land. I'm pretty certain I'll be able to find people that can afford to eat, but those able to pay for rent? that's a riskier proposition. Oh, and I'm long PMs (why devalue them with falling real estate?): and then there's the headaches associated with rentals.
Ahhh Grasshoppers. Thank the 3 of you who flagged my post as junk. That tells me I am most certainly on the right track with real estate rentals. There is no asset class or endeavor for that matter, that does not involve risk. It seems some in this forum think we will all be without jobs, and will be living in tent cities. I beg to differ.
I suspect there will be those as well who will hold gold and silver well beyond its peak (although I do not see that coming anytime soon). But how about giving thought to what your transition might be when the time does arrive? Are your plans to dump it all at once? Rush off to the dealers of metals and wait in line while the prices plunge? That is not how I bought into this market and it is not how I intend to leave it. Having a 10 year exit plan where the transfer of purchased silver bought at $5.00 an ounce to income generating real estate that is selling for $25.00 a square foot does not seem impetuous or even that risky. I mean really, I am buying condos in golf course communities for less than $30k that are renting before I can finish renovations.
One of the few problems with metals is the lack of cash flow. You own it and watch the price appreciate, but there is no cash flow unless you reduce your holdings. Hedging gold and silver with real estate IS an exit plan. What's yours and how are you educating yourself in it?
CD,
One of the most concise and relevant points concerning the current PM run. Cheers.
CD,
Greed?..were it so.
Insurance, period.
Very little of the price of PM;s in the US are rising because of WORLD appetites.They are going up, because our standard of living whatever it is, is going to hell n a handbasket.
The Crooks at the CPI(that do not count food/fuel), in their inflation figures, are insane.
I am not trying to make any money, I just want to hopefully retain what I have, after the crash/default/devaluation.
If WE can do that, we win.
WE (Collectively) do not want to be Serfs.................
I pretty much do as I please, and after this shit is over, I want to be able to do the same thing.
That's my goal.Not LOSING.
"Bitches" -type comments have indeed gone parabolic.
Measured and thoughtful discussion seems to parallel the DXY/GLD on Zero Hedge the last few months.
Anyone else frustrated with the Cramerization of the comments recently?
+1
My vote is for tally sticks. I also like the way Rogers says if money is confetti then hold silver. Um . . . duh!
Yes to tally sticks. I learned about those from someone's user name on here. What a great idea and way of handling money. Just create it on the spot of every transaction involving real wealth.
I see you've got it all figured out. That's wonderful. Truly.
So when the new currency comes online all the gold owners will sell their gold to whom and for what price?
I never said I had it all figured out. Those are your words. I was stating the obvious, that PMs are a transition store of wealth. But clearly in your four weeks here on ZH you seem to have some definite ideas. So, please regal us with your wisdom.
If and when "a" new currency is finally widely adopted, which might not be the first or second currency that is introduced, the value of your PM's will drop in value. The only reason they are going up measured in fiat dollars is because of the loss of faith in the currency.
When faith returns in whatever form of currency (and there is always a return of faith for whatever reason) PMs will reverse. At some point you will need to convert some of your PMs to the local currency in order to transact business. The trick is knowing when. I don't know when that "when" will be.
CD, you sound like my hubby. He has similar ideas. Stay nimble he said. I don't now what he means exactly, but I know he knows a lot.
Something I tell my clients all the time is never to make decisions simply because you can make a decision or because someone else is telling you that you must. Stay flexible, think ahead, commit to what you need to and keep you options open within reason. It is the weak mind that craves absolute certainty or definite outcomes. This is why the masses will be slaughtered.
This is our conditioning. Those who can resist their conditioning will survive and maybe even thrive. Those who are slaves to their conditioning will be served for dinner. That doesn't mean we must trample everyone in front of us in order to survive. More harm is done to you and me spiritually and emotionally by doing so. But there will be hard choices ahead of us. When a decision, no matter how hard, must be made, make it. But don't make them all simply because one needs to be made.
Dona, you make me queasy with the "My Hubby" comments. Don't be afraid to have thoughts of your own. It really is OK especially here among friends.
Please, the MY HUBBY is way to 1940's for me.
Okay guys, a little humor is always needed. Just to balance bitter comments from others. But my hubby is really a great guy. Cheers
Im interested in the specifics of how your hubby pleasures you at night.
Who's your favorite commenter here on ZH? I like the perspectives presented by Haywood JaBlome.
If the US decided to back the dollar with gold, the price of gold would go up. Wouldn't it?
In my opinion there are too many variables to answer that at this point. Backed by how much Gold? What percentage of the dollar is backed by Gold? How much Gold does America (as in the government) really own? Can that be verified? What is the response by our creditors? It goes on and on.
it would soar. "start adding zero's" to your PM's IN FIAT. Some would argue "that's why it would never happen." Of course who ever thought your elected leaders would "bail out Wall Street?"
Why exactly would it soar?
It the currency is backed by gold, surely the currency worthy enough to be held INSTEAD of gold, hence a roration from PMs into the currency, no longer fiat.
CD summed it up nicely, way too many variables to consider.
You assume that this widely accepted currency will appear. You expect that it will take a familiar form. Suppose it doesn't? Or suppose the new currency is backed by PMs?
It won't just appear. It will demanded by the people who will be in full scale panic. I don't know what form it will take other than those who create it will not embody it with a 'value' that will benefit the average person but just the opposite. Please read some of my other comments in this thread. I discuss the fact that the new currency could be backed by something of substance. In fact it might need to be to be fully accepted.
You read too much into my comments based upon your own bias. I openly say that I don't know exactly how this will work out. But I do know human greed and human denial. We have been conditioned since birth and the average person will not look within to understand why they do what they do. Thus they will continue to be manipulated. That I know for a fact. History bears this out. The master continues to be the master for as long as the slaves wishes to remain the slave and not a moment longer.
I love that last statement because it is so true.
The reason the Romans never counted slaves in a census was to keep them in the dark about just how many slaves there were...
If the current trend continues, we may have no currency, jut personal ID numbers and the transfer of digits from one account to another. The blackmarket is where the PM's will come in handy.
I appreciate your philosophy behind the last paragraph, but id like to hear more from you on how a slave wishes to remain a slave. I simply can't see this to be the case.
Maybe you are personalizing my comment. I was speaking in general.
But we all have choices. When we don't see a choice it is often because we feel isolated or constrained by a group that may or may not be organized. Meaning we remain passive because we feel we cant be free without being destroyed. But if the group we are part of were to move as one then I might not be destroyed. Thus I throttle my behaviour based upon others and I justify it by saying I have no choice. There are many other explorations way too long for a comment.
Read some of my articles where this smaller theme has been repeatedly explored as part of the bigger thought of looking within for the answers.
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/inconvenient-truth-truth-shall-not-set-us-free
Cheers CD
Dup
How long do you see the chaos vacuum lasting between currencies? Will it be an instant transition via some press conference? Or will some cities need to burn to the ground first?
I don't know mostly because we still have much more to burn before we get to that point. What I do know is whatever is announced will not be a finanical decision that is fair but rather a political decision based upon protecting the haves to the detriment of the have less. While that might seem obvious we continue to fall for the "My only desire is to help the people" political lie. Obama is just the latest example.
"I don't know what form it will take other than those who create it will not embody it with a 'value' that will benefit the average person but just the opposite."
Is this not "pushing on a string?" I think that the game is over for TPTB.
Wages will drop such that all that glitters will stay glittering on shelves (and the reversing of economies of scale will only widen that gap). The only remaining "enticement" will be food. "Can't have food unless you use the new currency!" It's about as close to using force as you can get without actually forcing.
There is no trick.
Just be sure to have a lot of 1 and 2 gram goldpieces.
And Never go all-in. Why would anyone want to transfer a lifesaving Asset completely into a New Experiment?
Here are some thoughts from Jesse:
Or they could use their dollars to buy debt and equity in corporations.
Which is what the government claims they want those with dollars to do. What I want to do is just below me.
To: Cognitive Dissonance
PM's for the Transition?????
What do you think will replace the fiat dollar?
Another piece of not so pretty paper?
Once one collapses, I will not be stupid enough to trust another.
There is always a replacement currency. Always. Notice that I did not use the term "fiat" in my first sentence.
The real question is what will back the new currency in order to restore faith and belief, not if the currency will be replaced. If it is backed by something tangible then by definition it is not "fiat" since "fiat" is backed only by imperial edict.
This game has been going on for centuries. The entire game is not going to change overnight simply because of a loss of faith in the currency. People have been conditioned all their life to play within this type of game. The people will demand a return to the same type of game once the old one has collapsed. Conditioning this powerful cannot be easily broken even if the will to do so is present. And there is no will to do so.
Yes, but historically there is always a distraction before the currency can be changed. The distraction has to be extremely disruptive, so as to condition the sheeple to demand an end to it. Traditionally the distraction has been large scale warfare. Things get broken and need to be rebuilt. 10% of the idiot population gets killed, industry is returned to effeciency, and yes, a new currency gets issued.
My hubby said that currency is like respect and trust. It takes long time to gain someone's trust and respect, but only a minute to loose it. It may take long time for any new currency to gain the trust and respect, if the USD is shreaded
OK, enough with the "my hubby" bullshit!
Momma says. Momma says. AGREED.
I have a friend who...
My fathers mothers sisters cousin says that the CD shills are using trademarked shtick. My fathers mothers sisters cousin name is Bitty and she's from Biloxi.
Lol
How about one with "In Hubby We Trust" on all the coins?
To: Cognitive Dis
No you didnt mention Fiat, but you imply it in your response by using the term "backed by".
Only fiat or false promise needs to be backed by true wealth.
PM's satisfy the promise, they are the wealth and are not a promise or token representing wealth.
A new currency that has the need to be "backed" by something else will also be abused until it returns to zero.
You have no argument with me on this point. Any currency that needs to be backed will be abused. I agree 100%. No argument from me on this one. I am simply saying over and over again that when people become desperate enough they will demand a new currency and the currency they get will not be fair. But because it is widely accepted it will be 'valuable' simply because it is widely accepted. Until it also fails.
So explain to me how all the billions of people on this Earth are going to engage in transactions without a currency of some sort under the present social order. A social system that was built upon a currency based system of exchange must retain the same type of system if only to transition to another or Billions of people will die.
This is why I say in other comments in this thread that the people themselves will demand another currency to use. This is the fundamental trap we are in. We can speak about worthless currencies until the cows come home. My question is down in the dirt. How do we replace the current inequitable system with another more fair system without killing 10 or 20% of the Earth's population in the process?
And will you fight to replace the system with a fair one? Because the people that control us today will fight to retain control.
The really shitty part is that even PMs as currency can be manipulated. It is not a matter of what the currency is as much as it is a matter of who controls the currency, whatever it may be. Definately, some types of currency like pure fiat are more easily manipulated than others though.
Great discussion tonight. Glad I stopped by. Definately in the camp of "ticket to other side" here. It is fun (and scary at the same time) watching PMs go bottlerocket... but really it does mean much to me other than moving my personal DEFCON status up. Actually, I haven't a clue what my PMs will mean to me one day. Maybe worthless. Maybe a ticket over a border (greased skid) with family. Maybe food or medicine. Maybe re-establishment on the other side of a currency failure. Who the hell knows. I think of them as insurance. Along with other items discussed at length here at ZH.
We can always look backward to history under fiat collapse. Your PM's will retain purchasing power at the same historical level they always have. An oz of gold for a fine suit and a pair of shoes or a dimes worth of silver for a loaf of bread.
i think his boobs are talking again.
Plad, I find myself coming back to your comments again and again for comfort. I mean they truly are . . well . . beautiful.
@Platitzow:
How about Euro or mexican peso banknotes circulating in the US? Like US$ in Zimbabwe?
@Platitzow:
How about Euro or mexican peso banknotes circulating in the US? Like US$ in Zimbabwe?
Shan't silver be, in our lifetime, as gold has been for others before.
Uses and extinction of maintain high probability, silver shines on.
It probably should. The question is will we passively accept what is given to us in our dog dish or will we demand to be treated better? And then back up that demand if our 'bluff' is called.
as a dog myself (who wears a mask and does karate btw) i prefer to walk around with my dog dish in my mouth then plop it down in front of my owner "in case he forgot...or something." works every time.
Rough......er.....Ruff!
Still learning the language. It doesn't seem that tough at first bark, but the tail waging while speaking has me confused. Lefty loosey, right tighty, right.....er....correct?
+47
Exactly. For the transition..
If we meet the new boss (currency) and he's the same as the old boss (fiat), we won't be fooled again. If we are forced to render our PMs to the new Caesar, It will be deja Et Tu all over again.
FRNs lost 97% of their value before people started piling into PMs.
Why? Because that 97% loss of value occurred slowly over a 95 year period.
The last 3% is occurring quickly enough for people to notice it, because money printing is going parabolic now. In the last 3 years the Fed has created more money and credit than the previous 95 years.
This is very true.
If all you get from ZH is "Buy silver" then you're doing it wrong.
considering that ZH only has 442,518 unique visitors many of whom also troll around the other financial sites, I wouldn't call it wrong just yet.
how many sites have huge tits that tell you to buy silver tho? i've redone my inventory multiple times because, well....it's because, but, well...
Remember something also people.
50 dollar silver and 2000 gold is fucking zombie land. It will not be a very nice play to live.
So be careful what you wish for.
What the hell can any of us do about the economic suicide team hell bent on destroying US except accept our fate and be ready for zombie land living?
Simple
guns, gold, grub, and wenches in whatever order you choose
Wenches bitch and produce more hungry mouths to feed.
Having them spayed first should only cost you a few ounces.
Try wRenches. Waaay more useful and a lot less trouble.
You know nothing. I have many, many wrenches but only one wench. The wrenches always imply trouble and aggravation, and never fun. The wench, although occasionally vexatious, is a whole lot more fun, and a wrench can't keep you warm at night. Again, you know nothing.
Ever see a wrench dance naked on the beach on a moonlit night?
Vive le difference!
Wrenches are useful tools, and wenches are too (just do NOT think of them as tools!) :>D
America is zobmie land. Have you been to a mall recently? Look around.
The last mall I went in was mostly empty. They closed off 2 wings and paid the few remaining business to move and consolidate in one wing to save energy costs.
Went to the mall this morning in Fort Worth. Not crowded at all and plenty of parking. I heard not one word in English except from the cashier. Every group I walked past and even the PA system were speaking Spanish. Don't know if that's good or bad....it just IS.
That's barely 6 bucks from now. I hardly think zombie land is 6 bucks away. More like $100 silver and $5000 gold.
Yeah, $50 and $2000 are way too low to reflect anything like that. And why do people think high gold and silver prices mean riots and chaos in the streets? I've never understood that kind of thinking.
It depends on how high. Gold at $2000 is one thing. Gold at $5000 implies that a collapse of confidence in the currency is underway. The social conditions that would coexist with a run on the dollar will be chaotic for sure. You have to think about how basic, how fundamental the currency is to the functioning of our economy.
Which is why the founding fathers forbade that Congress abdicate the responsibility to the likes of Tim Geithner and the Bernankster.
Umm.. gold at 1500 and silver at 44 implies that a collapse of confidence in the currency is underway.
As one frog in the pot says to the other, "It's getting warm in here."
Someone in Hong Kong just bid Au to $1500.70/Toz!
Zombies come out when 500 / 12000 and ONLY in america
Oh, come on. You're saying that if silver goes up a measly few dollars, that there will then be Zombies about? Why?
See you in Zombie land this summer.
$50 silver is Zombieland? Really? Better put you head between your legs and start kissing then, cuz we are already there.
+1502
Well, I would just disagree with that statement. The current inflation adjusted price of gold should be around $2300-2400 and for silver it is $140-150.
Why does every other product/commodity/metal/service get to be priced at or above their inflation adjusted price year in and year out and not cause a blow-up of the world but all of a sudden PM's adjusting for long term pricing imbalances does so?
Sure, derivatives may blow up and they may do so for any number of reasons. Perhaps PM's exceeding a certain price point will trigger a collapse. It won't be because they shouldn't be priced at their inflation adjusted price in this fiat currency, however. It'll be because of the fucking moves by TPTB in keeping a fiat currency game going and suppressing PMs from reflecting that debasement.
I agree. Silver at $150 per oz is the same as $50 per oz in 1980 terms. What is Jim Rogers talking about with this 'parabolic' nonsense with a triple digit Silver price? Remove the naked Silver shorts JPM has and then maybe we'll see a parabolic move. I think that Silver has been held artifically cheap for so long even the big guys like Rogers don't have a clue of what this extremely rare and extremely sought after metal is really worth.
Holy shit its Bill Nye the Bubble guy. Rogers may be better off than I and a few years wiser, but fuck that noise.
I don't exactly see a mania going on... commercials advertizing a HELOC from GMAC for PM's. If somebody disagrees, please correct me.
Its going to take a hell of a lot more than him to shake me out of the silver tree.
I was wondering that too. Jim Rogers is way too smart to say that silver going parabolic would be bad. He doesn't really give any price info so..... But I thought he was talking about the JPM silver shorts going bust about a parabolic move. That would be kind of disruptive.
If you listen to the whole interview (not on ZH), He means if it went to triple digits this year which would equal parabolic then you would see a major correction. Unless the dollar turns to confetti then he would stay in silver because the parabolic move would be justified. He also said that he has heard the conspiracy theories for 30 yrs. about certain investors manipulating the PM prices and doesn't buy into it.
Uh...I'm not saying that it's a bubble this time but....at $50/ozt in 1980, that was a bubble.
So in regards to silver hitting $150 now, I could see Jim calling that a parabolic move as measured by 1980.
But, I don't think it's bubble time yet. Even at $150.
But if it were to hit like $200 by this time next year without the dollar becoming confetti I could see that as bubble territory.
Zombies. Bitchez.
"50 dollar silver and 2000 gold is fucking zombie land. It will not be a very nice play to live."
In all likelihood it won't be. Especially if you own 50 dollar silver and 2000 gold.
or a skillet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POtndU2h8yI&feature=relmfu
Big difference in 1980, US government was not spending like drunk sailors on a Kamikaze mission.
umm yeah actually they were,
Remind me of the spending that you speak of. I remember when Reagan became pres in my early college years, there was no such spending.
Carter and his lovely predecessors.
Remember the reagan small government speeches?
Epic stuff, It he and Volcker, if you recall who put the brakes on.
UMMM, actually NO! Total debt from revolutionary war to the day Reagan came to office,
906 billion, that's little b billion!
The BIG spending started 1982 and beyond. Reagan talked but didn't walk the walk just as O'bummer is today!
I remember Reagan well. I helped elect him, twice. Spending bills don't originate with presidents, they originate in Congress. The Reagan deficits swelled because the Democrat-controlled House and Senate refused to reduce the growth of spending while Reagan cut taxes. Works every time.
Exactly.
But Reagan's greatest failure was refusing to veto those spending bills....
Reagan's achievements:
a) Spending grew by an average of 2.5 percent a year.
b) National debt when Reagan took office: $700 billion. National debt when Reagan left office: $3 trillion.
c) Number of federal employees when Reagan took office: 2.8 million. Number of federal employees when Reagan left office: 3 million.
d) He raised taxes in 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986 and 1987. Who got screwed? You guessed it – the middle class who “paid a higher percentage of their income in taxes when Reagan left office than when he came in.”
Pay the oligarchy, bitchez!!
President Raygun = Star Wars, hahahaaaa the '80s was fun.
the '80s was fun.
No ... Disco was awful.
and they had the worlds largest hoard of Silver, that's now completely gone.
Volker "took the risk." trade and budget deficits were nothing like today's, let alone NEARLY the entitlement considerations we have RIGHT NOW. more to the point "there was no Misrata." Even still "it turned him into a Democrat nonetheless." I await for his next biography on "The Obama Years."
We were well into LBJs "Broke Society", that and two wars was a major reason for our higher interest rates and why Reagan stepped into the mess he did.
So you're trying to re-write history are you? Why don't you look at the f-ing numbers debt verse GDP or GNP then! Stop telling lies, the truth doesn't hurt. You wouldn't happen to work for the COCK brothers would you? I see their hacks here all the time. Tell lies long enough and they are believed.
So Reagan didn't step into double digit interest rates? We weren't fighting two wars?
It was after the LBJ administration that the SS programs became the known as the 3rd rail of politics.
so the Koch brothers operatives are everyone that disagree with you, eh LameDrew? Get over yourself.
Reagan outspent the Soviet Union on defense, presto, no mas SU.
"Jew confetti" to be precise.
Come on now FMB.. There is only so much truth you can get away with stating on here before the conditioned masses (or shills) convert your observations to some kind of racism.. As evidence of the junks you have received for your accuracy..
well I would rather says that the price depends on the expectation of a USD collapse... if it is true that the FED is selling short put options to bring down the long term treasury yield you shouldn't be worry to keep your silver
Good grief I have a lot of reading to do tonight and now four new posts on ZH worthy of thorough attention. There goes the trip to the gym...
All fiat Jew confetti eventually reaches zero value. Then they print more in different colours and play the game again. Once the new fiat Jew confetti arrives you can trade your Gold and Silver and play it for a while but never forget, it will also attain zero value too. Wash, rinse, repeat.