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Jim Rogers: "Ireland Should Go Bankrupt"
In this interview with the RT, Jim Rogers says what everyone except a few bankers and corrupt (soon to be unemployed) politicians grasp: namely, that Ireland should go bankrupt. Instead, the government is forcing the country into a tough spot, where social tensions are flaring, and could erupt into an all out social conflict, confirming that the interests of its people is the last thing the Irish government cares about, and is only concerned about preserving what is now virtually proven to be a failed model (with even JPM saying so tongue in cheekly), and prevent losses at all major German and English banks. Quote Rogers: "It would teach everybody a good lesson, and in the end Europe would be stronger for it, and the EUR would be stronger... You can not spend staggering amounts of money that you don't have of other people's money that you don't have because somebody has to pay the piper. This is ludicrous. This will cripple the Irish economy for years to come. In the future Ireland will be crippled because everything they earn will go to pay off old debt. There is no reason why taxpayers around Europe or in Ireland should pay for other people's mistakes. The bondholders and the stockholders of banks should lose money"... So simple, yet so irrelevant when dealing with a dying economic model.
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It is so simple. An individuals in power that can't think this simple concept through need to be thrown against a wall......it's up to the people now.
Careful...sounds like the IRA would like to do just that.
never thought ireland would turn bitch like the rest of europe.
Fantastic advice!
First Ireland implements a low-tax low-regulation economy and becomes applauded by conservatives around the planet - the 'Celtic Tiger'.
Secondly Ireland gets into the mother of all crises with no reserves at all (supposedly because low taxes and low revenues are not particularly good at bridging crises) - and adapts another conservative agenda: savage austerity.
Two years down the line its GDP has plumetted and it is unable to service its debt - money it has loaned and spent but is unable to repay.
Will Ireland follow the splendid advice of conservatives for a third time as well, and default on its $1 trillion of debt, turning its economy into a nuclear wasteland like one we havent seen since Iceland defaulted? (Except that unlike Iceland Ireland has no big oil fields to barter.)
Will that default trigger billions and billions in windfall profits for all those Irish CDS long speculators as well?
How will owners of the various pension funds that have Irish bonds and which will go bankrupt feel about that? Will they applaud the CDS speculators for their profits?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Dude, really? Low taxation and regulation caused the Irish government to borrow and spend beyond its means? So much so that it has to implement "savage austerity" (i.e. stop borrowning and spending beyond its means).
This is the same bull I hear by the demented ones here in the US claiming that the Bush tax cuts caused the subprime meltdown of 2008.
The evil marriage between the banksters and the poltical elite has always been the problem yet you try to specioulsly, idioticaly, stupidly, and moronically try to twist it into a rant about conservative philosophy. Go sell your lame philosophical BS on the Huffington Post or Daily Kos where people will listen to that garbage.
"More Critical T[hought] ...", ? If that's the intent of your moniker, you need to stop making ill-informed comments.
It is NOT the Irish government nor a government owned bank that is bankrupt. The problem is with private banks. The Irish government has been running a surplus these past years.
Yes, pension funds will have trouble. But that's on the pension fund managers, not the government. And bailing out the banks does NOT bail out the pension funds, especially not if the banks being bailed out are French or German banks.
You can't bail out anybody without moral hazard, all these folks, including the pension managers have been playing loose with other folks money. Let the chips fall, find out who is swimming without a suit, and then help those that need it. Blasting trillions at the banksters won't solve anything that needs to be solved.
Clearly the banking sector triggered the debt crisis, which according to the playbook of free market fundamentalists was over-sized and under-regulated, coupled with the lack of sovereign reserve funds and the lack of a balanced revenue flow by Ireland that could have weathered the shock.
The low-tax, low-regulations regime both exposed Ireland to a massive internal housing bubble and left Ireland totally defenseless against the popping of it.
What could have prevented it:
Compare it with say Norway, which has a massive sovereign fund - or Germany - both weathered the crisis almost unfazed. (and Germany had massive internal bailing out to do as well.)
Spot on. The potato famine killed millions and was greatly exacerbated by the conditions caused by so much of the public being forced into essentially debt slavery. There is no final outcome other than this kind of destitution by not thinking through where this will eventually lead. The time to act was yesterday, but the sooner the public puts those responsible against the wall and reclaims their sovereignty and wealth, the better it will be for them. The longer they delay, the worse.
Exactly who should be put against the wall? Do we know their names? The banksters we know are the front men. Who pulls their strings? Inquiring revolutionaries want to know?
Then its to the guillotine!
no surprise they bended their knee to their lord and savior: the great satan.
ireland is a powder keg.
Hanoi Jim is calling for Ireland to go the Hugo Chavez route.
Nice.
Something sensible like what Jimmy says will never, ever be implemented.
What's the point of even saying it?
What's the point of even saying it?
Hopefully, if enough of us keep saying it, the disparity between our interests and the interests of the elites will dawn on even the dimmest of voters, and something might change.
Love that man. He's one of the guys that got me interested in economics and Asia.
Pretty sure Jim knows no government will listen, but maybe individuals will. Really all we can hope for it that good peopel can make it to the life rafts.
If Ireland is allowed to go bankrupt the banks dont get paid - that wont happen.
Everything is about continuous debt and the banks continuously collecting.
Anything that threatens this is futile.
There is no 'system' now except planned implosion of it all and resurrection into 1 world govt, 1 world currency, thats their final solution and its been planned for decades.
You nailed it Sheep. They are burning down the house because they want us to move to where they think we can be controlled by an elitist central authority in Straussburg or Prague or Bern. Fortunately, they don't understand Americans very well.
Oh, they do understand Americans quite well, that's why they negated the borders, flushed the English language, conditioned the public to intrusion, provided sewers full of opportunity to get into debt, and polluted even the most resilient of us with incessant and hideously effective newspeak. Now, after the dilution of nationalism has occurred for the last 20 years, the large cohort of yesteryear has transmuted into a small and insignificant crew, some of which, willing to stand in the way of the train that has been purposefully thrown from the tracks, thinking that 'America has always gotten through their problems'. There will be limited organic and organized resistance in the US. The dog biscuits they throw to the lobotomized masses has turned most demographics into unthinking, denial hugging, at war with themselves, self perpetuating slaves. Those that join in any structured effort will be disappeared and made null.
I really don't want to embrace what I just said. It's just that over and over at this stage in the game, after you have attempted to talk sense into those around us, and having heard the responses, the sad conclusion stampedes over my efforts.
For now on, I...
Bravo. True and well said.
Right! +100
A few courtiers or capos at the top to keep people in line. No middle class but better educated peasant technocrats to fix things and the vast unwashed to entertain with reality TV and welfare until they come up with a final solution. Better wake up bitches. The sky is falling.
isn't an imf "bailout" the same as taking out a secured loan in order to make payments on unsecured credit cards?
The problem with a series of bailouts is that when eventually you can't afford another, you create a hugely unfair situation where some ponzi gamblers cashed in and others didn't. It would be wonderful to see conflict between the haves and have nots when eventually we find out we can't afford to print our way out of this mess.
I can't see how this can end well.
This bailout = ~$24,000 for every man, woman and child in the country. The IMF is basically the same owners as the privately owned United States Federal Reserve Banking System.
"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning." Henry Ford
Ratzen Fratzen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj3DBcpfMNQ&feature=related
Jim Rodgers is Bourgeoisie, Property Owning Class.....he knows nothing.....Please continue to support the British Crown and Europe's Bankers....We have the proletariat best interest at heart.
I am currently on European Royal Visit to Ireland, (a little fishing and hunting on the side), then travel to Portugal, Italy and Spain.
I must be doing something right as I am still alive and well.
hrh ADF
HRH is reserved for members of the royal family, specifically crown prince and princesses...
OFF WITH YOUR HEAD
Arch Duke Ferdinand still alive? World War I fought by mistake!
It is so common sense, so simple, don't have to be a rocket scientist to understand...but still in Finland Rogers and people like him are called "populists".
but this is basically the point
ideal way to enslave everybody and hop there goes NWO !
This outrage should be focused on ANY entity seeking a bail-out or that has already been bailed-out. Many Americans already understood the lunacy of the bail-out concept BEFORE they rammed TARP through. Bankruptcies are part of the "creative destruction" inherent to Capitalism, we must let the system work as intended or we are going to lose it.
hahahhahaha...
bankruptcies aren't contemplated within the framework of debtmoney, not BKs like this anyhow.
You guys think we can just write some stuff off and put a few people in jail and the good times will roll again, huh?
You are all missing the point.
The people could not possibly have any savings left in those bankrupt banks.
Sooo ... what is there left to save.
Soooo ... why save the banks.
Sooo ... why tax the people.
jal
bonuses
I guess it is off to the debtors prison for 20+ years for Ireland rather than starting over. If it comes to the point where governments can no longer bail out the large banks I wonder if they will be off to debtors prison? I guess not.
what's gonna happen when the same ethnic group gets fingered with the banking scam as in the 1930s?
What if its not an ethnic group this time?
How about the Shiny Metal Bug group. Yes, they're the ones who caused this mess!
To the chamber they should go.
(and not to see Marlyn Chambers behind the green door)
Cowen's own party calling for his resignation
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/1122/breaking41.html
so, as an aside, WTF is the process for when a "representative" like this signs the entire nation away for a bribe or for the hell of it?
Hold another election? How the hell can you stand up and say NO, this decision on our behalf is NOT APPROVED and we will NOT be bound by it?
Torches and pitchforks worked for Iceland.
So how long before Cowen shows up to his new job as a bank exec? Will he wait long for his payoff?
where is the ira when you need them. fuck the imf and eu the irish just punched themselves in the face
Irish Government is Imploding.
Banks will "push it" until war breaks out, socially, riots and outright, all this within our (posters) lifetime!
Act now and receive your own Booted thug action figure!
(batteries not included, void where prohibited, shackles sold separately)
Ireland is the swan- song of 'Bailoutmania'. The stock- market comforting, euro- supporting, predictable outcome of the Greek bailout is notably missing from the Irish version. What will the Portuguese bail attempt look/act like? Will French and German banks in Lisbon get burned out by rioters?
The bad Spanish loans are too large to bail.
All these countries are insolvent rather than illiquid. The EU/IMF elites who pimp liquidity are morons or criminals (probably both). It's not just the EU or the US.
Imagine the bad Chinese loans! The Chinese government WILL bail their elites (they have been since last spring) because they have to. The Chinese have (probably) lost control of their inflation and are rocketing toward out and out hyperinflation. Stifling inflation in China would require Volcker- esque 20% funds rates. Not gonna happen; the elites would be ruined by the collapsing property bbbble.
The Irish should simply default and close its doomed banks, refund deposits and show the IMF and EU loan sharks the door.
The debt have been defaulting on for decades on. Default card is already on the table. Cannot be played twice.
If they end their defaulting process now, they will simply cut themselves from the consuming network.
Continuation of default means lower consumption level. End of defaulting process: no consumption at all.
This will darken the holiday mood.
I read this last night and am unclear as to its full extent:
"In July, the three organizations (Europol, Eurojust, Frontex) issued their first joint analysis-a report on the state of internal security in the EU. The report insisted that 'a common integrated architecture is required' to deal with crime and terrorism in the EU. So can Britian stop any of this? The answer is almost none of it. The Lisbon Treaty removed Britan's veto in justice and home affairs. Once Britan has opted in to any part of EU legislation on policing and criminal law, there is no opting out"
The article's title: The shocking powers of prosecution the EU has over all of us (UK)
It would appear (I really am not sure) that a country gives up its soverinity when it signs the Lisbon Treaty???
I swear if I didn't read the title I thought Rogers' referring to Greece [well, Im sure RT will interview him again down the road onces the vigilantes hit Italy and Spain, same script, substitute the country name]
http://inapcache.boston.com/universal/site_graphics/blogs/bigpicture/fir...
Hundreds of people holding lit flares aloft gather to submit a petition outside the residence of Iceland's President Olafur Ragnar Grimsson in Reykjavik January 2, 2010. Iceland's president said on Thursday December 31, 2009 that he would delay signing an amended bill to repay more than $5 billion lost by savers in Britain and the Netherlands when the island's banks collapsed. (REUTERS/Ragnar Axelsson)
JR is right, but hammering the tax payer is the goal. The debt is just an instrument used to dismantle the social services and institutions. Instead of treating "austerity" as the byproduct, it has to be viewed instead as the primary objective. People have to wake up and reject this right-wing, teaparty rhetoric of dismantling the social fabric of society and get their head out of this market driven utopia which will only serve to radicalize and impoverish the world (except the few hundred billionaires who will be/are kings).
China and it one of it's many dupes ...Rogers.... should go bankrupt after the west says .....Fuck Off!
Bankruptcy so they can continue living high on the hog of welfare benefits that would fill an American welfare queen with envy???
Severe austerity is what the doctor calls for. It will do wonders for the country and the people.
Ah Jim Rogers, the epitome of the western thought, everything is situational, everything is opportunistic.
Easy to understand this guy.
He trades in commodities. While not being tied to populations selling commodities, he still shares somehow their fate.
The US has banned the idea of scarcity. They just emit credit and buy with it, mostly commodities to support their highly consuming society.
That is where Rogers' woes start. Poor Jim has now his pockets filled with money and he knows scarcity. He has to fish for value, he has to find something somewhere in the US to store his wealth.
Extremelly hard as the US is mostly pure consumption and the few things of any value are non tradable.
That is why he loves China. Because for two decades, they have done the work for him, they were in a similar situation, being flooded by US money wave and to find ways to build their future. That is why Rogers prefered to go and fish in China or the asian continent because it was easier to read and leech on.
This guy has plenty of the US money that is flooding the commodities market. He can not read the US market, very few can. And he does not know how to use his money to face scarcity issues. Very few know. Or nobody.
That is Jim Rogers. Would he be the head of the Fed, he would call for the bail out of Ireland.
Rogers, 'Default already, so my gold can be worth $100,000 per!'
Wrong.... on a default gold gets killed. Gold is rallying cause of all the printing and creation of new money. Destroying some of it is most definitely a gold selling event.
Wrong.... on a default gold retains its intrinsic value, even though price may fall in nominal dollars. It just means said dollars have more value because there are fewer of them after the default.
No need to sell gold, it hasn't lost any value.
And the nominal dollar price might even rise due to fears over other government instability, defaults, etc.
If the trickle of government defaults escalates into a flood of government defaults, gold may take off for the moon ...because people sense the dollar approaching worthlessness.
If the Irish people say ta-hell-wi'ye, who is to say that the European Bank wont just go ahead and bail out their banks directly?
Who says no to them, who do they report to?
Not the electorate of the European states from what I can see.
To prove a Rothschild hand is still behind finance, consider the following.
Governments borrow money from PRIVATE BANKS - AT INTEREST! (Why should this be?)
PRIVATE BANKS create money from "thin air" ADDING INTEREST. (Why don't governments just "print" and spend the money "for free".)
PRIVATE BANKS use government IOU's (bonds) as collateral in the FRACTIONAL RESERVE SYSTEM creating TEN TIMES MORE MONEY from "THIN AIR" which can then be lent to suckers AT INTEREST.
EVERYTHING ELSE spoken about the financial system is just SMOKE AND MIRRORS and extra layers of PERVERSION on this original corrupt system - TO CONFUSE and DISTRACT the people ENSLAVED by it.
Now the snake government and the PRIVATE BANKS are eating their own tail, trying to keep the
Ponzi going a bit longer. While TAX PAYERS go on PICKING UP THE TAB through the TAX SYSTEM, paying INTEREST and paying for INFLATION on all these loans, MADE FROM THIN AIR.
All of a sudden, these two quote mean a whole lot...
“Give me control of a nations money and I care not who writes its laws” - Amschel Bauer (Rothschild)
AND
“If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by
inflation, then by deflation, the banks and the corporations which grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their father conquered.” - Thomas Jefferson
i am not normally a fan of jim rogers, but, in this case, he is exactly right.
This aversion to bankruptcy MUST stop
One thing I still don't understand. If the EU can regulate every detail of commerce down to the curvature of bananas sold in supermarkets why didn't they regulate the banks and prevent this unholy mess?
But shouldn't Rogers generalize this statement to:
"There is no reason why taxpayers around _____ or in _____ should pay for other people's mistakes. The bondholders and the stockholders of ____ should lose money"
There a few hundred candidates that should have filled in that last blank in the last two years.
Hey, maybe it is soon time for a sacrificial "there's still moral hazard" lamb, so that the next ten bailouts after the sacrifice can say "well, these ones are different". Predictions on Portugal in this regard?